S06.E04: Don't Let Me Keep You

[CountryGirl]

I am not surprised that Jack has been somewhat canonized in the eyes of Rebecca and their kids. 

Even a semi-decent person who dies relatively young tends to be lauded and the good, rather than their flaws, remembered.

That Jack, while certainly not perfect, was a pretty darn good husband and father just ups the ante in that respect. He died after helping to save the lives of his family, including the dog. His life being cut short at 53 and his kids, though teenagers, not old enough to fully grasp all that he was, foibles and all just adds to his "Saint" status.

Lionizing the dead is hardly a new concept.

[CountryGirl]

1 hour ago, Shermie said:

If Jack’s father was intentionally kept in the dark about Marilyn’s whereabouts to protect her, how did he know where to go for the funeral?

He wouldn't have known that. It was an empty threat, but not to Jack, who again, was reduced to being the fearful child in that phone call and the funeral service. 

[madmax]

18 hours ago, shoovenbooty said:

My mother-in-law is Italian and uses Campbell's tomato soup to make pasta sauce (it's actually pretty good). Maybe using canned tomato soup for sauces was a "thing" in the 60's?

My mother-in-law was Polish/German and used Campbell's tomato soup in her stuffed cabbage.  Now I can't eat it any other way.

6 hours ago, CountryGirl said:

All the discussion about Nicky's whereabouts and why didn't Jack call him, etc.?

IIRC, Jack didn't start receiving postcards from Nicky until the early 90s and didn't track down and confirm Nicky's whereabouts until 1992.

Marilyn's death occurred in 1988 so unless Jack had the ability to turn back time or speed it up to the Internet age, and then go back in time, there isn't any way he could have notified him. He had no idea where he was at that point.

As far as Nicky not being in the early flashbacks (sledding, etc.), he is a little more than 4 years younger (Jack was born in August of '44 and Nicky in October of '48), he would have been a baby as Jack looked all of 5, maybe 6, in the sledding scenes. I'm not sure what an baby or very young toddler would have added to the scenes.  

I'm willing to waive the early sledding flashback as Nicky being too young and probably in a playpen.  But there was no excuse for not having a throwaway line "We can't find Nicky." or "Nicky's number is disconnected."  Instead, we got the presumed only child Jack.  Which is bullshit.  That's my biggest problem with this episode, well, that and it totally didn't advance much in the way of the current storyline, a filler episode in the final season.

[KaveDweller]

16 hours ago, Hedgehog2022 said:

Ok...every character on this show has had a mistake or two. Some people on here were calling out Jack as a "Saint" which I don't get since clearly the writers have clearly made him to be heroic at times but deeply flawed and often times a risk taker at the expense of his family...hardly "Saint" status. Rebecca has a had few issues but all in all, especially in the last several seasons, she's been flawless. 

Well in the past several seasons we've known about her diagnosis. I think the characters on the show see her through a different light because they know they are losing her soon so they don't point out her flaws. For instance if she wasn't sick, Kevin or Kate might have been pissed at her for agreeing to go to that clinic that Randall guilted her into going too. But instead Kevin was just mad at Randall and totally absolved Rebecca. But Rebecca helped set that whole conflict in motion by not standing up to Randall (but kind of going against Kevin).

It is similar to why they all talk about Jack like he is perfect. He died and in my experience people don't remember/talk about the stuff that annoyed them about their dead parents. They talk about the good stuff.

[debraran]

I don't understand the "dead" part, re Nicky. You just can't say someone died, the army doesn't lie. There are visits and calls and procedures. I'm sure your son isn't put in a hospital without a call to inform. He also had psych issues but signed himself out. His Army buddies invite him to get togethers.  but others can't find him? No reality here at all. TIU has decent writing but sometimes it falls flat.

From that episode:

In a post-Vietnam flashback, Nicky's living in his trailer as a drunken shut-in. A former Army peer calls him about an upcoming get-together to celebrate their lieutenant's engagement. Nicky never goes to those, but the guy thought he might this time since it's close to home and Jack, whom he hasn't seen in years, will be there.

He stares sporadically at the address he wrote down, then takes out a picture of him and Jack— the photo Sally took long ago. Nicky decides to go but sits in his car outside his trailer struggling to leave. He eventually does, but once he arrives at the gathering, he again sits frozen in his car. He sees Jack arrive.

[JKL845]

Wow. Best episode in years. Reminded me of the early seasons when this show was so good. The show is and always has been about the Pearson family of five and the people that come and go in their lives. Jack's life story is just as, if not more, important than the other four. His life and death has made the biggest impact on the others. I don't think Rebecca and Miguel could be happy together if they didn't have the love for Jack in common. A man who didn't know Jack wouldn't be happy in this family. 

This has never been a linear show, getting from point A to point B. It's always been past, present & future intertwined. It's the story of all five of their lives and I wish we had more of Jack the past couple of years. 

[madmax]

1 hour ago, debraran said:

I don't understand the "dead" part, re Nicky. You just can't say someone died, the army doesn't lie. There are visits and calls and procedures. I'm sure your son isn't put in a hospital without a call to inform. He also had psych issues but signed himself out. His Army buddies invite him to get togethers.  but others can't find him? No reality here at all. TIU has decent writing but sometimes it falls flat.

Not sure how it was back then, but my son is in the military and should something short of death or major injury happen, they wouldn't notify me because he is an adult.  Possibly the same then back then; Nicky was an adult, so the military wouldn't necessarily notify his family.  

I'm not excusing the writing this episode because I think it was wrong that Nicky wasn't mentioned, but I can get behind the military not notifying the family.

 

[BC4ME]

TBH I could tell when they unearthed this whole Nicky isn't dead story that there was going to be a huge plot hole that the Pearson family was still in contact with Jack and Nicky's parents at least to some extent and they would certainly know Nicky was not dead. If they wanted the story that Jack told his family Nicky was dead then they would've had to have Jack's parents and all relatives dead or out of contact. The writers just wrote themselves into a corner on this.

[debraran]

12 minutes ago, madmax said:

Not sure how it was back then, but my son is in the military and should something short of death or major injury happen, they wouldn't notify me because he is an adult.  Possibly the same then back then; Nicky was an adult, so the military wouldn't necessarily notify his family.  

I'm not excusing the writing this episode because I think it was wrong that Nicky wasn't mentioned, but I can get behind the military not notifying the family.

 

True but he was in hospital. My friend knew but not what her son's condition was and mostly a parent wouldn't say their child died in the army because their other son said so and never hear from the army. That would be very odd. Also their dad chastised Jack for not protecting Nicky better since he went there to do that and he got hurt. A very fast flashback.

 

I hope your son is well. Is he career or short term?

Edited January 28, 2022 by debraran

[madmax]

2 minutes ago, debraran said:

True but he was in hospital. My friend knew but not what her son's condition was and mostly a parent wouldn't say their child died in the army because their other son said so and never hear from the army. That would be very odd.

I hope you son is well. Is he career or short term?

Oh, I agree that Jack couldn't have said "Oh, yeah, he's dead" to his parents because he couldn't control the all of the various scenarios.  So I think Nicky was dead to him, but no one else.  Which is why it was so damn stupid of them not to have at least one throwaway line.

Thanks for asking about my boy!  He's a Marine, most likely short term, but he's still thinking it over.  He went in right after high school and if he decides not to make a career out of it, I get him back in August. 😁

[OlderThanDirt]

Many of us had the family tradition of Sunday night phone calls that began because long distance rates were lowest at that time and very expensive at other times.  This is hard for cellphone kids to understand, I think.  As a commuting adult I shifted to calling from the car on the way home.

In real life it would have made more sense for Jack to have called his dad after the funeral, but no drama in that.

[Blackie]

As my CPR instructor taught us, cut up hot dogs are convenient throat plugs and shouldn't be given to kids.

I liked the cat and the bridge talk at the bar (Jacoby transfers anyone?)

other than that I am on the side of too boring, although reading everyone else's posts made me appreciate it more. I think due to the time gap from past seasons I forgot about the abusive family home etc, and thought Jack was just taking his mom somewhere to live because the dad died. 

It really is something when you see you husband eulogize his mother (or father for that matter) which happened to me this year. You really learn something different about your spouse and the kids would have seen their father differently too so it is good that Rebecca brought them.

[ams1001]

7 minutes ago, OlderThanDirt said:

Many of us had the family tradition of Sunday night phone calls that began because long distance rates were lowest at that time and very expensive at other times.  This is hard for cellphone kids to understand, I think.  As a commuting adult I shifted to calling from the car on the way home.

My dad worked for Bell Labs and one of his benefits was free long distance. When we were in college we had a code for calling home; I'd let it ring once and hang up, and they would call me back. My brother had two rings. (The downside, of course, being that my parents could never answer the phone until the third ring.)

7 minutes ago, OlderThanDirt said:

In real life it would have made more sense for Jack to have called his dad after the funeral, but no drama in that.

I originally wrote a comment about that, but then I remembered that he was drunk when he called...

[snarkysnarkerson]

I was pissed that the characters cavalierly joked about the mom’s beloved cat getting hit by a car. Assholes.

[Crs97]

1 hour ago, ams1001 said:

When we were in college we had a code for calling home; I'd let it ring once and hang up, and they would call me back. My brother had two rings. (The downside, of course, being that my parents could never answer the phone until the third ring.)

That reminds me of a friend in a long distance relationship in college.  They were broke students so they would just randomly call each other and let the phone ring once so the other would know they were thinking about them.  Roommates learned very quickly to make sure the phone rang twice before answering.

[Racj82]

On 1/25/2022 at 10:41 PM, maggiemae said:

Have we ever seen a member of this family having a cat or a dog?

Odd, to me.

 Not everyone likes or wants pets. It's weirder to me the sheer amount people that want animals in their home.

I'm thankful to not have pets that cooed over every time they are on screen. 

It's a great change of pace for me.

I will never be on the side of people complaining about these types of episodes.

I love the room the show gives to tell different types of stories. This family splinters out in so many ways just like the rest of us.

I also love the room they give people to show how great they are. You don't get a lot of that on network TV these days.

Milo killed it.

I don't hate Jack. It's easy to judge people on the outside in. Jack's family was so broken. They were all never really ever to recover. They could never just go back to the happy times or be close again. It's why Jack tried so hard to be THE BEST DAD. 

I will miss this show when it's gone. 

[qtpye]

On 1/25/2022 at 10:46 PM, Jodithgrace said:

As I recall, The Clan of the Cave Bear series doesn't get sexy until Book 2. 

Yeah, the Nicky thing confused me, too. I forget if Jack or Nicky was older. if Nicky was older, he could have been in school, while Jack might have been in half day Kindergarten, though the actor looked older than that. 

You really can't completely ignore one brother while dealing with the death of a Mother of two sons. 

How come those ice skates were just the right size? 

What the Hell is so sexy about being brutally raped by a Neanderthal?

Could someone at least Wiki the books people are supposed to be reading on this show.

[qtpye]

On 1/26/2022 at 3:33 PM, izabella said:

It's especially hilarious considering the Pearsons are known for traveling all over Pennsylvania, and coast to coast, in the blink of an eye.

I guess the power to go from North Jersey to Pittsburgh in a half-hour did not develop till the later generation.

On 1/26/2022 at 9:59 PM, Hedgehog2022 said:

St. Jack? How about St. Rebecca?!! She never does anything wrong, never makes mistakes and is perfect in every way. At least Jack has flaws that he acknowledges and makes mistakes from time to time. 

I did notice how suspiciously perfect Rebecca looked even though she takes care of 3 young children, every day. Of course, that is a pretty stale and tired tv trope.

[smartymarty]

On 1/26/2022 at 9:13 PM, Violetgoblin6 said:

I don't see why Jack and Rebecca never took their kids to see their grandmother and skate on the pond.

Because Jack didn't want to. His saying it was because of the long drive with three kids was just an excuse. He didn't want to be reminded of the shared abuse. Same as his mother not liking coming to Pittsburgh. IT WASN'T ABOUT THE DISTANCE! Rebecca making it to the funeral with the three kids showed that.

Though I get that many people had wonderful relationships with their grandparents, many of us grew up without grandparents. So while it feels like Jack prevented them from having this relationship (which, of course, would have only lasted 6 years), it's not the end of the world.

[Jersey409]

Ugh, what a waste of an episode. Not to say the acting wasn’t good, Cousin Debby is a very good actress, I recognize her from other shows throughout the years and I really enjoyed Mike too. But really, 13 years and not a single Christmas or Thanksgiving or Fourth of July weekend?? It became clear in previous seasons that they rarely hung out with Rebecca’s family so I guess each holiday was always just the five of them.

very very annoying how uncle Nicky was not acknowledged and it was made out to look like Jack was an only child. Nicky probably could have improved his life and sobered up if he moved to Ohio to keep his mom company. Mike would have made a lovely stepdad.  Anyone ever notice too how Rebecca’s sister has never been shown?  This episode was not really relevant to anything that’s going on and just a filler.

[chocolatine]

21 hours ago, ams1001 said:

My dad worked for Bell Labs

I'd love to watch a show about Bell Labs. So many famous scientists worked there.

10 hours ago, smartymarty said:

Though I get that many people had wonderful relationships with their grandparents, many of us grew up without grandparents. So while it feels like Jack prevented them from having this relationship (which, of course, would have only lasted 6 years), it's not the end of the world.

My paternal grandfather died when I was six, and he was sick for several years before that, but I still cherish the time I had with him, 35 years later. No, it's not "the end of the world" to not have a relationship with one's grandparents, but why deny the children this opportunity when it was easily available? I totally understand not letting them see the abusive grandpa and racist grandma, but to keep them away from the grandma who loved them was selfish.

Edited January 29, 2022 by chocolatine

[JKL845]

It was a combination of things. Jack called his father because he was angry at him for missing out on time and memories with his mother. The impact of the abuse didn't end when she left the dad. The abuse and the dad still loomed large over them and caused the distance in the relationship they could have had. 

Finances were tight and it would be a lot for the family of five to impose on Debbie. To drive four hours, stay for a couple and drive four hours back would be a lot with three young children.

Also, they always thought there would be more time. Someday. 

[gonzosgirrl]

1 hour ago, chocolatine said:

I'd love to watch a show about Bell Labs. So many famous scientists worked there.

My paternal grandfather died when I was six, and he was sick for several years before that, but I still cherish the time I had with him, 35 years later. No, it's not "the end of the world" to not have a relationship with one's grandparents, by why deny the children this opportunity when it was easily available? I totally understand not letting them see the abusive grandpa and racist grandma, but to keep them away from the grandma who loved them was selfish.

It was a two way street though. Grandma could have swallowed her issues, too, for the sake of the children. It is not all on Jack. 

[ShortyMac]

21 hours ago, madmax said:

My mother-in-law was Polish/German and used Campbell's tomato soup in her stuffed cabbage.  Now I can't eat it any other way.

My family is from Hungary, and we use tomato soup in ours, as well. Doesn't taste right without it.

[Ohiopirate02]

2 minutes ago, ShortyMac said:

My family is from Hungary, and we use tomato soup in ours, as well. Doesn't taste right without it.

In my Polish American family we use V8, and a secret ingredient that makes all other golumpki downright inedible without.  

[Rootbeer]

On 1/26/2022 at 11:06 PM, Crs97 said:

May I redirect you to season one when Rebecca couldn’t do anything right?

And to the time that Randall not only held it against her that she didn't introduce him to his drug addicted father when he was a child, but also used it to try to guilt her into moving hundreds of miles away and participate in a drug study against her will.  Rebecca has not only been shown to be in the wrong multiple times; but we've also seen her over-apologize for it as well as suffer consequences that were far worse than her transgression.

[OlderThanDirt]

I think there was a Bear Bryant (coach of Alabama football) commercial for the phone company that ran after a football game where his last line was "Call your mama." But then he ad libbed, "I wish I could call mine." The phone system crashed with all the people who called their mamas that night.

[Bitsy07]

The story line I need explained is young Nicky/Jack in Vietnam, where Nicky takes the young boy on a boat to fish using a grenade - boat explodes - boy dies.  Jack's overreaction is so not normal and out of character.  To not let Nicky explain it was an accident and then let him rot in a trailer, estranged from Rebecca and his kids - disown him.  The only way this would remotely make any sense is if that little boy were somehow Jack's biological child but to me the timing doesn't make sense.

Jack has demonstrated an unhealthy pattern both with young Nicky and now with Marilyn in Ohio.  Jack distanced himself (or cut off contact completely) with individuals who triggered him of past bad memories or trauma, even though those cut-off individuals would have greatly benefited (and vice-versa) from relationships with those most close to him (eg. Rebecca and the kids).  Maybe one of the lessons Dan F./writers are trying to communicate is that although Jack is a loving/present husband and father, no one is "all good or all bad."

"Missing Nicky" at the funeral explanation depends on timing, meaning did Marilyn's death occur before or after Jack showed up at Nicky's trailer ordering him to stay away from his family.  If before, then it is conceivable no one would know where Nicky was but they easily could have made reference to the same in this week's episode.  To me it was myoptic not to do so.  If it was after, SHAME, SHAME, SHAME on you Jack for not putting Nicky's interests ahead of your own and reach out to alert him of his Mom's death.

Dan F. has promised all answers will be revealed by series end.  Here's hoping!

 

 

 

 

 

[debraran]

5 minutes ago, Bitsy07 said:

The story line I need explained is young Nicky/Jack in Vietnam, where Nicky takes the young boy on a boat to fish using a grenade - boat explodes - boy dies.  Jack's overreaction is so not normal and out of character.  To not let Nicky explain it was an accident and then let him rot in a trailer, estranged from Rebecca and his kids - disown him.  The only way this would remotely make any sense is if that little boy were somehow Jack's biological child but to me the timing doesn't make sense.

Jack has demonstrated an unhealthy pattern both with young Nicky and now with Marilyn in Ohio.  Jack distanced himself (or cut off contact completely) with individuals who triggered him of past bad memories or trauma, even though those cut-off individuals would have greatly benefited (and vice-versa) from relationships with those most close to him (eg. Rebecca and the kids).  Maybe one of the lessons Dan F./writers are trying to communicate is that although Jack is a loving/present husband and father, no one is "all good or all bad."

"Missing Nicky" at the funeral explanation depends on timing, meaning did Marilyn's death occur before or after Jack showed up at Nicky's trailer ordering him to stay away from his family.  If before, then it is conceivable no one would know where Nicky was but they easily could have made reference to the same in this week's episode.  To me it was myoptic not to do so.  If it was after, SHAME, SHAME, SHAME on you Jack for not putting Nicky's interests ahead of your own and reach out to alert him of his Mom's death.

Dan F. has promised all answers will be revealed by series end.  Here's hoping!

 

 

 

 

 

The postcards had come for a while. The last one rubbed him the wrong way because it was bolder. All had his address which was listed and his number. He signed his name with initials CK to not show identity to others but also a private thing between them. He gave Nicky pic of his family at trailer and I doubt if mom had died, he wouldn't have told him then. Nothing Dan could do now would make sense to me. Their mom wouldn't write Nicky off and he loved her, stayed in US for her. Jacks dad berated him for not protecting Nicky and letting him get hurt. (not nice but like dad)

 

[Janie430]

12 hours ago, Bitsy07 said:

The story line I need explained is young Nicky/Jack in Vietnam, where Nicky takes the young boy on a boat to fish using a grenade - boat explodes - boy dies.  Jack's overreaction is so not normal and out of character.  

Jack has demonstrated an unhealthy pattern both with young Nicky and now with Marilyn in Ohio.  Jack distanced himself (or cut off contact completely) with individuals who triggered him of past bad memories or trauma, even though those cut-off individuals would have greatly benefited (and vice-versa) from relationships with those most close to him (eg. Rebecca and the kids).

 

I actually don't think it is out of character for Jack.  Jack has always been determined to be the bestest dad and husband, and he sees part of that as being the in charge hero.  When he can't be that, he gets insecure and either tries to make the other person reassure him (Rebecca in NYC or with the tour) or ups the ante to try and save the other person. 

 

Nicky wouldn't run away so when his mother and Nicky are struggling he enlists?  He thinks somehow, once he's over there he can save him.  Nicky tells him he's lost, Nicky's CO tells him Nicky's safe where he is, he manipulates the CO to get released.  When it all blows up, he shuts down completely.

He can't fix Marilyn's issues entirely when he gets her out, so he shuts down.  Same pattern - when he can't make it all better, and he can't pretend he can anymore he shuts down and shuts people out.  As the OP said, unhealthy.

[Aloeonatable]

14 hours ago, Bitsy07 said:

The story line I need explained is young Nicky/Jack in Vietnam, where Nicky takes the young boy on a boat to fish using a grenade - boat explodes - boy dies.  Jack's overreaction is so not normal and out of character.  To not let Nicky explain it was an accident and then let him rot in a trailer, estranged from Rebecca and his kids - disown him.  The only way this would remotely make any sense is if that little boy were somehow Jack's biological child but to me the timing doesn't make sense.

Jack felt responsible for Nick accidentally killing that boy. He insisted he could "help" Nick once Nick became part of his unit. When Nick caused that little boy's death, Jack realized that he no longer could or wanted to help Nick. 

I think it was Nick's responsibility to contact his parents and keep in touch with them. He shut down, knew he would be a disappointment to them, so I don't blame Jack at all. We don't know what Jack told his parents about Nick in Viet Nam, we only know that he told Rebecca and the kids that Nick died. 

As someone up thread said, Milo didn't like that part of the Jack/Nick storyline. He didn't feel it was true to Jack's character.

[debraran]

I would find it hard to tell my husband someone died in my family but everyone else knew they didn't. That's a BIG lie when the person could show up at my door. Nicky could have but wouldn't but that would have been a great episode.

[watch2much]

On 1/26/2022 at 3:39 PM, Ohiopirate02 said:

My grandfather was an abusive drunk for most of my mother's childhood.  She was the youngest so she missed out on a lot of it.  Her older brother shielded her from the worst of it.  My grandfather changed though once my aunts and uncle got married and started having kids.  My aunts and uncle all did make the decision to allow him to see their children.  One of my aunts lived in Wyoming for years, but still made the trek back home with their kids regularly.  Some of them came every summer, others every other summer, but they all came.  

yes, that happened in my family as well.  my parents were great to the grandchildren....none of the treatment we got.

[ECM1231]

On 1/26/2022 at 10:41 PM, shoovenbooty said:

My mother-in-law is Italian and uses Campbell's tomato soup to make pasta sauce (it's actually pretty good). Maybe using canned tomato soup for sauces was a "thing" in the 60's?

Not in any Italian-American household that I know of, including mine. And I'm a child of the 60s.

I cut Jack some slack. He was a flawed individual, as we all are. Dying prematurely, of course his family remembers the idealized Jack. Isn't that somewhat normal?

I also don't understand why folks are down on him about his very short Sunday phone calls with Marilyn. I thought they showed that when he and Rebecca had the kids, their life was kind of hectic. In that one scene Rebecca is answering the phone while holding one of the babies. She then calls Jack, who picks up the phone, and then is handed the baby. I just took it to mean that there wasn't much time for lengthy phone calls with 3 little babies to raise.

Agree, though, that a 4 hour drive should have been made to Ohio at least once or twice a year, being that Marilyn was too traumatized to return home to Pittsburgh.

[ECM1231]

On 1/27/2022 at 11:02 AM, CountryGirl said:

Thank you for your kind words. I have found much peace and love in life, although there are still moments when I struggle after something triggers me back to that dark time. But there were good times, too, which Jack's mother pointed out as well. Those memories and the life I have built certainly sustain me.

I don't know if I'd call myself brave but again, thank you. After years of silence, I have found it very freeing to be able to speak my truth and that hopefully, saying what can be uncomfortable at times for me to say and for others to hear will help other victims feel less alone and more able to share their truths.

Because I truly believe the more we share, the less power those memories and the ones who hurt us have over us.

Yes, you ARE very brave, @Country girl, and your post moved me to tears. Thank you for sharing your truth.

[bros402]

On 1/28/2022 at 8:32 PM, Bitsy07 said:

"Missing Nicky" at the funeral explanation depends on timing, meaning did Marilyn's death occur before or after Jack showed up at Nicky's trailer ordering him to stay away from his family.  If before, then it is conceivable no one would know where Nicky was but they easily could have made reference to the same in this week's episode.  To me it was myoptic not to do so.  If it was after, SHAME, SHAME, SHAME on you Jack for not putting Nicky's interests ahead of your own and reach out to alert him of his Mom's death.

Before, iirc. I believe his mom's death was ~1987 or so and that he showed up at the trailer around 1994

[Ohiopirate02]

10 hours ago, bros402 said:

Before, iirc. I believe his mom's death was ~1987 or so and that he showed up at the trailer around 1994

This episode takes place in 1986.  According to the Wikipedia episode synopsis,  Jack last visit to Nicky is in 1992.  The catalyst for that visit is Nicky sending a postcard to Jack's home instead of his office. I don't remember if the show ever stated how long Nicky had been sending the postcards.   It is possible that Marilyn told Nicky this information before she passed. 

 We saw in another episode that Jack chose to put Vietnam behind him.  I can't see him keeping in touch with his army buddies after that.  And that scene in the bar would have been in the 70s well before Jack had his job in construction or lived at that address.  Legal addresses are public record, and Nicky could have easily found Jack's address in the 90s.  But that doesn't explain how Nicky knew where Jack worked.  The simplest answer is Marilyn kept in touch with her son and told him about Jack.  

[Boo Boo]

On 1/27/2022 at 3:43 PM, CountryGirl said:

I am not surprised that Jack has been somewhat canonized in the eyes of Rebecca and their kids. 

Even a semi-decent person who dies relatively young tends to be lauded and the good, rather than their flaws, remembered.

That Jack, while certainly not perfect, was a pretty darn good husband and father just ups the ante in that respect. He died after helping to save the lives of his family, including the dog. His life being cut short at 53 and his kids, though teenagers, not old enough to fully grasp all that he was, foibles and all just adds to his "Saint" status.

Lionizing the dead is hardly a new concept.

My husband died at 52 (cancer) and my daughter was 14 going on 15.  It was very tragic for her to lose her dad right before Christmas and right before her birthday.  

While she misses him, and it's impacted her life tremendously, both of us have not canonized her dad.   He was a great dad, a great husband too.

We don't walk around talking about him like he was Jesus and "What would your dad have done?"  We fondly remember the person he was -- the total person who was imperfect in life and imperfect in death.  

I recognize that some people do lionize the dead, there are some of us that go through tragic circumstances and remember the complete person -- esp. when the death isn't fresh and you've had time to process it all.

Edited January 30, 2022 by Boo Boo

[Boo Boo]

Adding on to my last comment, I don't expect total realism from a show.  But I feel like the show would've been a lot better if in addition to the good, the children, Rebecca, Miguel all remember the dad who struggled with alcohol, had a jealous streak that nearly ruined his marriage and showed more than just what, one or two episodes?  I mean, he kicked alcohol pretty easily.  Too easily IMO.

And I would've liked to have seen a real couple in Jack and Rebecca where they had more than just a few episodes of strife.  I mean, what the fuck -- is there no anger that he pretty much made all the important shots in life and that she had to go along with?  From adding another child after she just lost a baby in childbirth to surprising her with the family home purchase?  The romantic gesture shit that has real life consequences?  I mean, I realize of course that there would be no big 3 w/o him pressuring Rebecca to adopt Randall (and let's not forget how unrealistic that super quick adoption was), but how about an episode where Rebecca is angry at Jack for coercing her into some major decisions when she was at her most vulnerable?

Maybe it's me but I don't want the love story to end all love stories. I want actual characters and relationships that have some semblance to real life.  And characters who can live life w/o doing unrealistic big gestures.

But of course, I'll still watch this show and be disappointed when it's done. :) 

Edited January 30, 2022 by Boo Boo

[debraran]

This shows the pic Jack gave his brother.

https://people.com/tv/this-is-us-why-jack-kept-brother-nicky-a-secret/

This shows the last card Nicky sent but they did show others. The writers in one article made it seem it was ongoing and he was getting bolder. He always gave his address and obviously easy to get if his Army buddies asked him to come to events by phone. They mentioned him not going to others but they thought to see Jack he might go to this one. (sad)

And who would go with their son, Randall this time to a Vietnam memorial and not look for Nicky's name. Of course it wouldn't be there but why even go?

Also, there is no reason not to bring up Jack's good points but when Kevin in therapy tried to mention his side, his vision/glasses of events, good lord, they all were upset. That is dysfunctional. Everyone deserves a voice and Randall staying with Rebecca, that was a low blow, she should have been self sufficient to some degree, they made her a woman not able to do basic things without help or outside help and that is not Kevin's fault.

 

 

 

Edited January 30, 2022 by debraran

[Shermie]

Quote

my daughter was 14 going on 15

Being a little pedantic here, but what is the purpose of this phrase? I hear it a lot, but if someone is 14, of course they’re “going on” (whatever that means) or going to be 15. I mean, what else? You can’t be 14 going on 18, or 7 going on 10, unless you’re being sarcastic about precociousness. 

As for lionizing Jack because he died young, he also died unexpectedly. That might also be a contributor. When someone dies after an illness, at least there’s time to talk about your life, to touch on mistakes or regrets, and to say goodbye. A sudden death can leave a lot of unanswered questions, and maybe guilt about things left unsaid or not done.

[Crs97]

7 minutes ago, Shermie said:

Being a little pedantic here, but what is the purpose of this phrase?

I typically see it when the person’s birthday is very close or a variation to suggest a child is wise beyond their years (“6 going on 18”).

I am so sorry for your loss, Boo.

[Boo Boo]

On 1/30/2022 at 4:11 PM, Shermie said:

Being a little pedantic here, but what is the purpose of this phrase? I hear it a lot, but if someone is 14, of course they’re “going on” (whatever that means) or going to be 15. I mean, what else? You can’t be 14 going on 18, or 7 going on 10, unless you’re being sarcastic about precociousness. 

As for lionizing Jack because he died young, he also died unexpectedly. That might also be a contributor. When someone dies after an illness, at least there’s time to talk about your life, to touch on mistakes or regrets, and to say goodbye. A sudden death can leave a lot of unanswered questions, and maybe guilt about things left unsaid or not done.

That he died not only right before Christmas (his funeral was a week before Christmas), but right before her birthday (Jan 3).  So my daughter will live the rest of her life mourning her father's loss that occurred very close to major days where you are supposed to be surrounded by family.  Did my response help you understand your rather pedantic question in response to my daughter's personal tragedy, @shermie?  

Understand your point about the unexpected death and things left unsaid.  But a death is a death esp when you are in your teens.  But it's important not to treat the person who died as if they were the most perfect human being that no one could ever possibly live up to.  

Edited February 1, 2022 by Boo Boo

[Crs97]

2 minutes ago, Boo Boo said:

That he died not only right before Christmas, but right before her birthday.  So my daughter will live the rest of her life mourning her father's loss that occurred right before two major days where you are supposed to be surrounded by family.

I was 30 when my father died of cancer, and he was buried the day before my birthday and right before Christmas.  I wish I could say that it gets better, but 20+ years later I still don’t love celebrating.  Sending your daughter hugs.

[Boo Boo]

45 minutes ago, Crs97 said:

I was 30 when my father died of cancer, and he was buried the day before my birthday and right before Christmas.  I wish I could say that it gets better, but 20+ years later I still don’t love celebrating.  Sending your daughter hugs.

Aw, thank you so much.  And I'm so sorry about your father and how that has impacted you.  It's tough.  Life is wonderful but for sure a series of heartaches too!

[Zonk]

On 1/26/2022 at 4:23 AM, Jax7917 said:

I found this episode boring and quite honestly , I feel like the only reason it was made was to give Milo some work , as he’s really not needed in the series any longer . I think he’s a good actor but he was killed off early on in the series and in my opinion , every scene with him feels like filler and not something necessary or intriguing . His mom died but it had no bearing on anything because We are nearing the end of the series and Jack’s story is complete . He died . Let’s focus on the characters who are still a mystery to us . Who Kevin ends up with and his journey to get there  , Kate’s divorce and marriage to annoying guy , Randall’s career or kids etc . I like Jack but I don’t think we need an entire episode devoted to him at this point . 

Yeah, the flashback gimmick hasn't worked in a while. They probably should have stoped shortly after Jacks death was shown. But writers are often too afraid to change the status quo.

 

[bros402]

8 hours ago, Boo Boo said:

That he died not only right before Christmas (his funeral was a week before Christmas), but right before her birthday (Jan 3).  So my daughter will live the rest of her life mourning her father's loss that occurred very close to major days where you are supposed to be surrounded by family.  

Understand your point about the unexpected death and things left unsaid.  But a death is a death esp when you are in your teens.  But it's important not to treat the person who died as if they were the most perfect human being that no one could ever possibly live up to.  

I am so sorry about that. My dad's father died 5 days before Christmas when he was 14, and his mother died a week before Christmas when he was 35. His brother died a decade ago the week before Thanksgiving.

So, my dad has a history of people dying near holidays. Once it hits November, he always waxes nostalgic

Edited January 31, 2022 by bros402

[Zonk]

On 1/27/2022 at 8:56 PM, Shermie said:

Re: any skill or whatever as it’s done on tv compared to how it is in real life. You have to let it go or it will drive you crazy. I could write a 10-page screed on how tv gets small towns and farming wrong, but it’s easier for Hollywood writers to tap into their stereotypes. In movies they often give it more effort, but in a few seconds of a tv show, it’s probably easier for the director to say, “Here, you’re a grandma, knit something. Don’t know how? Just fake it, no one will know.” Because they don’t know the difference, they figure no one will.

Also people playing videogames. In TV and movies you have people mashing buttons randomly, when in most games you hold buttons and very carefully time presses. Only thing worse is when they wiggle the stick back and fourth erratically. Only game I would give that a pass on is Mario Party.

[Zonk]

On 1/27/2022 at 9:43 PM, CountryGirl said:

That Jack, while certainly not perfect, was a pretty darn good husband and father just ups the ante in that respect. He died after helping to save the lives of his family, including the dog. His life being cut short at 53 and his kids, though teenagers, not old enough to fully grasp all that he was, foibles and all just adds to his "Saint" status.

His saviour complex was a big problem. I loved my cats, but if the house was on fire, they better make it out of there on their own furry little legs. I'm not risking my life for them. That would go 10x if I had a family to support. Risking your life that way is damn selfish.

[BC4ME]

7 hours ago, Zonk said:

His saviour complex was a big problem. I loved my cats, but if the house was on fire, they better make it out of there on their own furry little legs. I'm not risking my life for them. That would go 10x if I had a family to support. Risking your life that way is damn selfish.

You're right of course but people in the height of emotion don't always do the sensible thing. They've now had to allow pets in a lot of flood rescues because people were refusing to leave without their pets and dying because of it. I think it was Katrina where a lot of people died because they wouldn't leave their pets.