Figure Skating

[Minneapple]

12 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

Does anyone know if there's a transcript of Sasha's post-competition comments? Johnny was translating some, but Tara wouldn't stop yapping, so I don't think he heard everything. I'm curious if she spilled any tea.

She apparently was saying stuff like, “I hate this sport! I won’t go back on the ice! Everyone has a gold medal except me!” Those are translations from twitter.

[Mirabelle]

I was thinking Pasha Grishnuk for Eteri. Embrace the trainwreck.

[CharethCutestory]

6 minutes ago, Sarahsmile416 said:

And both of them looked better than the majority of Trusova’s five quads.  Not to mention the fact that she actually has some artistry to her skating - Trusova doesn’t.  

Even Johnny made a comment during Trusova's program (paraphrasing) that she makes zero attempt at the artistry. As in, she pretty much dismisses that part as beneath her or an after thought to her many quads. I loved how plainly he called her out on it. 

Edited February 18, 2022 by CharethCutestory

[Daisy]

11 minutes ago, Sarahsmile416 said:

And both of them looked better than the majority of Trusova’s five quads.  Not to mention the fact that she actually has some artistry to her skating - Trusova doesn’t.  

pretty much. All of Trsuova's quads were red squared 

In other news. I never wanna hear Bolero again. 
(which will never happen)

[Lady Whistleup]

I'm actually having trouble sleeping after watching that again. I felt so bad for Eteri's girls. They were so miserable in different ways. Such sad eyes in all three of them.

[choclatechip45]

I saw people say past medalists for Russia are thrown away. person non grata How come Evgenia was sent to the Olympics to be an Ambassador for Russia? I know she was in Canada for awhile. 

[Daisy]

i also have to say - i really hope they don't raise the age limit. I think if you are talented enough to compete at the senior level - you should have that chance. I just think of the other Olympic sports where 13-14-15 year olds can compete (some in judged events). i don't think people should have their moment taken away from them simply because they were born too early. 

[Lady Whistleup]

Just now, choclatechip45 said:

I saw people say past medalists for Russia are thrown away. person non grata How come Evgenia was sent to the Olympics to be an Ambassador for Russia? I know she was in Canada for awhile. 

In Russia the good thing is there are a bunch of ice shows and Battle of the Blade type reality tv shows, so former medalists have a bit of a retirement home in those shows. 

[CharethCutestory]

3 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

I'm actually having trouble sleeping after watching that again. I felt so bad for Eteri's girls. They were so miserable in different ways. Such sad eyes in all three of them.

I agree. These are just kids with an obscene amount of pressure on them. They have had most of their short lives so wrapped up in one thing and all of their self worth tied to it to the detriment of their mental, physical and emotional well being, it made me feel sick honestly. All the dysfunction and its many layers and how completely used, abused and discarded these Russian skaters are by Eteri and her machine was laid bare today. 

I hope Valieva finds support and nurturing in her life to heal from this and ultimately thrive. None of this is on her. In the grand scheme of things, it's not your life, its a passion of your life. Its not a person you love and have lost, it's a competition and life goes on. And as long as it goes on you can find peace and happiness. I pray all of these girls realize their worth beyond a sport that they happen to be brilliant at. 

If it wasn't for Sakamoto, who for me was the true gold medalist with a program and performance that had it all, it would have been too dark to stomach. I loved her happy tears, and how she shockingly looked over and then gave Anna a hug when the final scores came up. Anna looked so alone and sad sitting there....and sitting there, I was happy that Kaori was within Anna's vicinity for a while so she could at least have some positive energy around her in what should've been a moment of joyous celebration.  

[choclatechip45]

3 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

In Russia the good thing is there are a bunch of ice shows and Battle of the Blade type reality tv shows, so former medalists have a bit of a retirement home in those shows. 

Well that's good! I guess she was there as "press". 

[legaleagle53]

1 minute ago, Daisy said:

i also have to say - i really hope they don't raise the age limit. I think if you are talented enough to compete at the senior level - you should have that chance. I just think of the other Olympic sports where 13-14-15 year olds can compete (some in judged events). i don't think people should have their moment taken away from them simply because they were born too early. 

There's a difference, though. Those athletes can't rely on the "protected person" technicality to let them get away with doping in blatant disregard for the rules. If Kamila had been 18, she'd have been O-U-T, no question about it. But because she's a minor, she can't be suspended under the current rules.

And how low do you want to go?  Should we let 8-or 10-year-olds compete at the senior level just because they're insanely talented for their age?

[ChicksDigScars]

Mike Tirico hit the sweet spot in closing tonight's NBC coverage. I cannot remember it verbatim, but he burned the Sambo 70 house down. Eloquently, of course. He mentioned there being a IOC (?) press conference tonight in which they addressed the Ladies Event and ripped into Team Tutberidze's cold blooded conduct in the aftermath. GOOD. FINALLY.

“Guilt by association is often unfair but it’s called for here…a failed drug test has tarnished one of the most marquee events of the games and taken away from every skaters moment but now it’s time for the IOC to stand up…if swift action from the Olympic movement does not happen quickly the very future of the games could be in jeopardy.” 

 

"Tremendous coldness," indeed!

 

ETA: From an AP article:

BEIJING (AP) — The Latest on the Beijing Winter Olympics:

International Olympic Committee president Thomas Bach has criticized Russian figure skater Kamila Valieva’s entourage for their “tremendous coldness” toward the 15-year-old skater after her mistake-filled free skate at the Beijing Olympics.

Bach says it was “chilling” to see on television. Valieva, who has been at the center of a controversy over a positive doping test, finished fourth overall despite placing first in the women’s short program earlier in the week.

The IOC president did not name Valieva’s coach, Eteri Tutberidze, who was seen on camera telling a visibly upset Valieva “Why did you let it go? Why did you stop fighting?”

Bach says “you could feel this chilling atmosphere, this distance.”

Tutberidze and other members of Valieva’s entourage will be investigated over the teenager’s positive test for a heart medication ahead of the Olympics.

Bach says the pressure on Valieva was “beyond my imagination.”

 

 

Edited February 18, 2022 by ChicksDigScars

[pennben]

24 minutes ago, Daisy said:

i also have to say - i really hope they don't raise the age limit. I think if you are talented enough to compete at the senior level - you should have that chance. I just think of the other Olympic sports where 13-14-15 year olds can compete (some in judged events). i don't think people should have their moment taken away from them simply because they were born too early. 

I think the age limit should be raised commiserate with the age to be held responsible with the concequences. Because she was 15, Kamilla was a ‘ protected person’ meaning less penalties were possibly applicable to her. Coaches used that. Wanna be in Olympics? Be old enough to face full responsibility.  
also, we all shouldn’t focus on individuals. There is systemic abuse here. Fix that. 

Edited February 18, 2022 by pennben

[Daisy]

23 minutes ago, legaleagle53 said:

There's a difference, though. Those athletes can't rely on the "protected person" technicality to let them get away with doping in blatant disregard for the rules. If Kamila had been 18, she'd have been O-U-T, no question about it. But because she's a minor, she can't be suspended under the current rules.

And how low do you want to go?  Should we let 8-or 10-year-olds compete at the senior level just because they're insanely talented for their age?

then maybe that's something WADA should reconsider. vs raising the age limit so they 'aren't protected.". as I said before. Honestly I feel for this Kamilla chick. But she should have been booted, and ROC stripped. of their gold medal. she had an illegal substance. Same thing happened w/th other athletes and i've said the same thing. Andreea Raducaan had it happen to her. and everyone knew it and it didn't matter then, so I don't get why they made it such dramah now.

To your second point...I very clearly said that they shouldn't raise the age because other events have 13-15 year olds competing (and abiding by WADA). I'm not sure why you'd ask me if i want an 8-10 year old to compete, when i mentioned the age range that a good chunk of sports allow for senior competition.  if they were doing it for strictly physical safety, then that would be one thing. (I know that was a big reason why gymnastics went from 14 to 16. but that doesn't seem to be the case here. 

to me I think it's very simple.
In the case of Raducaan - she got stripped. - and the team doctor got banned for 2 olympics I think. that simply should happen here. Strip Vailieva - Ban her entourage for 2+ Olympics. etc etc. 

Edited February 18, 2022 by Daisy
just clearing some things up

[legaleagle53]

Just now, Daisy said:

To your second point...I very clearly said that they should raise the age because other events have 13-15 year olds competing (and abiding by WADA). I'm not sure why you'd ask me if i want an 8-10 year old to compete, when i mentioned the age range that a good chunk of sports allow for senior competition.  if they were doing it for strictly physical safety, then that would be one thing. (I know that was a big reason why gymnastics went from 14 to 16. but that doesn't seem to be the case here. 

My point was very clear. If we can have 13-year-olds competing at the senior level, why stop there? Why not let 8-or 10-year-olds compete at the senior level if they're that good? Why make them wait an arbitrary number of years when they're good to go now talent-wise? 

[pennben]

Because we are grownups. 

[redpencil]

2 hours ago, Sarahsmile416 said:

Even before that it was clear nobody gave a damn.  In the Kiss and Cry, Eteri was nowhere to be found.  This girl has already been discarded by Eteri and she is only 17.   

She probably files her fangs with them 

When Anna was in the kiss and cry, Eteri was at the boards with Kamila who was skating next. This is pretty standard if a coach has two skaters competing back to back. Having said that, everything else that happened and Eteri's treatment of both of them after that was disgusting.

1 hour ago, Mirabelle said:

Trusova had probably been told or had convinced herself that if she landed her quads she'd win. She had just skated a program without major mistakes and ended up losing to someone who didn't have a quad. I think the shock of it cause the meltdown.

At one point Trusova said something like "you knew the whole time" (to Eteri). From what I've seen in various places, it sounds like Trusova was led to believe that if she landed all her quads, she could win regardless of the rest of her program. So when she didn't, I think that was Trusova saying they had lied to her.

Edited February 18, 2022 by redpencil

[choclatechip45]

35 minutes ago, legaleagle53 said:

There's a difference, though. Those athletes can't rely on the "protected person" technicality to let them get away with doping in blatant disregard for the rules. If Kamila had been 18, she'd have been O-U-T, no question about it. But because she's a minor, she can't be suspended under the current rules.

And how low do you want to go?  Should we let 8-or 10-year-olds compete at the senior level just because they're insanely talented for their age?

Yes they can. We let 13 year olds compete in skateboarding. 

WADA should raise the age of protected person or raise the age of everyone at the Olympics.

 

Edited February 18, 2022 by choclatechip45

[Daisy]

12 minutes ago, legaleagle53 said:

My point was very clear. If we can have 13-year-olds competing at the senior level, why stop there? Why not let 8-or 10-year-olds compete at the senior level if they're that good? Why make them wait an arbitrary number of years when they're good to go now talent-wise? 

because that would never happen. there would obviously be a safety issue there.  (but i mean I'll also be honest i was shocked when there were 13 year olds in skateboarding so i bet if it were safe maybe a 10 year old could shock the world I dunno). but you do have to have an age limit. most people decide 14-15 is fine. 

Gymnastics changed their age requirements for safety issues. Hockey won't allow 15 year olds to play Major Junior Hockey  unless they qualify for exceptional status. so on and so forth. but younger teenagers have been at the games for like decades so that's not so much of a physical detriment there. 

If Figure Skating was changing the rules strictly for physical safety then that is one thing and I really wouldn't have said anything but it seems they are changing the rules so if you get caught doping - you can be punished by WADA properly. that seems unfair to me. that's all. 

Edited February 18, 2022 by Daisy

[Minneapple]

My theory is that Sasha was pissed off because she didn’t skate in the team competition so she won’t get a gold medal (that will eventually be stripped anyway) from that. Thus her screaming “everyone gets a gold medal except me.” 

(If an American woman had a meltdown like that…yeesh. I don’t even want to think about the reaction.)

All of this could have been avoided if the stupid Court of Arbitration had just done the right thing and not allowed Kamila to skate. Well. It could have been avoided if the Russians weren’t doping, I suppose.

Thomas Bach can say whatever he wants, but until the IOC actually does anything, his words are empty. I’m not sure which organization would have to ban Eteri — whether it’s the international figure skating governing body, or WADA or the IOC — but someone has to step up and tell the Russians to fuck off. The sport of figure skating has lost credibility, the IOC has lost credibility, WADA and CAS and everyone is losing credibility. But hey, as long as we keep the Russians happy.

[Daisy]

6 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

Thomas Bach can say whatever he wants, but until the IOC actually does anything, his words are empty. I’m not sure which organization would have to ban Eteri — whether it’s the international figure skating governing body, or WADA or the IOC — but someone has to step up and tell the Russians to fuck off. The sport of figure skating has lost credibility, the IOC has lost credibility, WADA and CAS and everyone is losing credibility. But hey, as long as we keep the Russians happy.

The ISU would probably be the one who would have to Ban Eteri (maybe CAS?) - I honestly don't know what the IOC is doing with Russia. like you found out they were super cheating in Sochi. EVERYONE was telling you in Italy and Vancouver that they were cheating (I remember Beckie Scott screaming at the top of her lungs how the Russians were cheating in Cross Country Skiing and Dick Pound (who legit needs to go kick rocks) basically was calling her a sour loser - until you know, it came out that the two russian skiiers DID cheat and Scott got a gold medal she rightly earned). 

Like you gave the a chance (and I a all about chances. I do believe there are russian coaches/athletes out there who are clean, and they DO have the right to compete. but clearly doing it under ROC isn't doing it - so they should compete with the people who compete under the IOC flag (I can't remember their name). or  don't have them compete at all. Have no russian anything. No Russian athletes. no coaches, no trainers, no judges. NADA 

[Cherpumple]

After watching the dramatic conclusion to this competition twice, a few things stand out to me:

- I'm thrilled for Kaori, and was so happy to see her enjoying her moment.

- I'm curious about the dynamic between the three Russian skaters. Are they normally friends? Does Eteri allow them to be friends, or does she want them to be bitter rivals? Johnny mentioned that there's little to no talking during their training sessions, but I don't know how far that extends. I know this week has been unusually stressful for them, but I was surprised to see that they basically had no interaction with each other backstage, either to commiserate, congratulate, or anything else. At first I thought Sasha was upset about Kamila's disappointing score, but she wasn't. And she and Anna completely ignored each other during the winners' ceremony. It was really weird.

- Sasha's meltdown must have started earlier than we saw, because she didn't appear to be in the "winner's circle" room when Anna and Kaori hugged each other after Kamila's score was announced. The 2nd place sofa was cropped out of the shot so I can't say for sure, but neither skater's body language indicated that anyone else was in the room. It wouldn't surprise me if she stormed out after Anna's score.

- Johnny mistranslated some of Sasha's initial tirade when she was standing behind a sobbing Kamila. He said she was saying something along the lines of "I can't watch this" (ya ne veezhy), presumably in solidarity with Kamila, but she was really saying "I hate this" (ya nenaveezhy) in reference to her not getting the gold.

- Sasha's behavior back stage was appalling. I was disgusted by her entitled attitude, and her "everyone has a gold medal but me" comment just made her sound like a spoiled brat. But in light of the bigger picture, I can only hope it was an uncharacteristic "last straw" breakdown caused by the shit show of abuse and stress she's under by Eteri's team. That being said, I truly wish her the best, and hope she gets aways from Eteri and becomes the whistleblower to end all whistleblowers.

- I wonder how much of the backstage antics were shown on Russian TV. We know that Kamila is getting the martyr edit there, and I don't think Trusova's extended outburst would fit their narrative (especially, the "I hate this sport!" "I'm never getting on the ice again!" and "you knew the whole time!" comments).

- I don't believe for a second that Kamila was told to tank her program, or that she intentionally chose to do it. Eteri and the ROC want medals and have been utterly defiant in the face of doping allegations. If they wanted to simplify things for their other athletes or further the martyr narrative, they would pull her out of the competition. The idea that they would want the world to see their unbeatable golden girl crash and burn on the ice is completely nonsensical to me. Rather, it looked like this girl buckled under the enormous scrutiny and pressure. On top of everything else, she was told by the IOC that if she, specifically, placed in the top three then NO ONE would get a medal or a ceremony. Has that EVER happened before?? I can't even imagine what kind of mindfuck it would be to be singled out like that by the governing body of the Olympics. Holy hell, it's amazing she performed as well as she did.

- I actually don't think NBC hasn't been milking this scandal as much as people are implying. Before the CAS rendered its decision, the presenters stuck to very brief statements, with little personal commentary. After the decision, Terry, Tara, and Johnny decisively condemned it and offered some additional professional insight from time to time. I was worried it would become a circus and they would bring on a revolving door of athletes, legal experts, and doctors to get into the nitty gritty of the issue, and rehash the laundry list of former Olympic doping scandals. But they haven't, and it's actually been much more subdued than I was expecting. Perhaps because Kamila is so young, perhaps for legal reasons, since the investigation is ongoing. The NBC coverage of it just has an overall air of sadness, rather than making it feel like they're enjoying a juicy ratings boon.

- I'm with Adam Rippon on this. After all this misery and drama, I need a drink!

Edited February 18, 2022 by Cherpumple

[redpencil]

50 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

My theory is that Sasha was pissed off because she didn’t skate in the team competition so she won’t get a gold medal (that will eventually be stripped anyway) from that. Thus her screaming “everyone gets a gold medal except me.”

I've seen people point out that she's also the only one who has no major golds at any competition (Olympics, Worlds, Europeans). You can even add in Kostornaia from their camp, and Trusova is the only one of them without a gold. So it may be that too.

[gingerella]

1 hour ago, Daisy said:

Have no russian anything. No Russian athletes. no coaches, no trainers, no judges. NADA 

^This^ all of it. 

[Mittengirl]

Do you think Valieva’s not winning the gold will have any influence on the team medal staying with Russia or getting stripped?  Is the IOC/CAS going to think she has been “punished” enough or that they don’t want to be seen as piling on to the poor kid?  Or will they feel emboldened given Eteri’s  abhorrent behavior?

 

Anyone know what those stuffed animal things were the Russian girls had?  They looked to have an opening on the top and Anna’s seemed to have something holding papers(?) on the bottom.

Edited February 18, 2022 by Mittengirl

[NUguy514]

2 hours ago, Minneapple said:

Thomas Bach can say whatever he wants, but until the IOC actually does anything, his words are empty.

This.  This right here.  He's a grifting, cowardly, amoral crook.  Fuck him.

I did watch The Skating Lesson's most recent video recapping the ladies' catastrophe competition, and they had Polina Edmunds on as their guest.  She was amazing; she pulled absolutely no punches and called out everything.  It's very much worth watching.  One interesting thing she said about Trusova was that her breakdown was the direct result of the bullshit Eteri bonus she has received from the judges throughout her competitive history; that's created a false narrative in her head of what she thinks she can/should score, regardless of the quality of her performance, because she has so many quads.  Therefore, when she (sort of, I understand) hits her long program at the Olympics, she assumes her judging history will presage a win; when that doesn't happen, she naturally has a complete meltdown because it exposes the fallacy of her narrative, and that narrative was fed to her by shitty judges and abusive coaches.  Polina wasn't defending her tantrum, as it seems like it was completely indefensible, but it was a really incisive observation.

Reading all of the comments about the debacle after the competition ended, I'm left feeling just so sad for these girls.  Make no mistake, Kamila should've been kicked out of the Olympics (and she and the team should've had their gold medals stripped immediately), Anna and Sasha are also doping (I do not, in fact, believe there are clean Russian athletes at these – or any – Olympics), and Sasha's meltdown seems completely inexcusable and the epitome of poor sportsmanship.  However, these girls have been abused physically, emotionally, and mentally for years because they are only valuable insofar as they have the capacity to win medals.  They are treated as disposable objects, and that message is drilled into them every day of their lives.  As Mike Tirico said, they are the victims of the villains.  The villains aren't just Eteri and the other coaches, though; the villains also include Russia (starting from Putin on down) and its pride in valuing winning above humanity, the CAS for displaying enormous incompetence and misapplying its own rules and facilitating the "irreparable harm" to Kamila, and the IOC for the enormous greed and cowardice that emboldened Russia to continue to win at all costs with systems in place that destroy the bodies and psyches of girls.

And I'm so sad for Kaori (while I'm delighted she won the bronze, it should be gold) and Wakaba and You, who should be the three medalists for this competition, and the rest of the athletes who stepped onto the ice knowing it didn't matter if they were perfect, for they weren't going to get anywhere near that podium.

Figure skating is broken.  I don't know how one fixes it.  Maybe it's raising the age limit, maybe it's banning Russia for years to come, maybe it's banning every member of Team Eteri forever, maybe it's all of those things, maybe it's something else.  However, what I do know is that it will stay broken unless and until the physical, emotional, and mental health of its athletes is valued above everything else.

[Jess14]

5 hours ago, BitterApple said:

Natalie or Anfisa in a poodle-perm wig. 

With regards to Trusova, she clearly felt 5 quads plus zero artistry should've outscored 2 quads plus decent artistry. The judges apparently disagreed. FWIW, I thought Anna was solid, but nothing about her performance moved me. If they'd given the edge to Sasha, I wouldn't have considered it scandalous. They were both just "meh."

The judges actually agreed with her, unfortunately. She won the free skate, but she fell on her ass in the short program, and Anna didn’t. 

[absnow54]

1 hour ago, Jess14 said:

The judges actually agreed with her, unfortunately. She won the free skate, but she fell on her ass in the short program, and Anna didn’t. 

Yeah, the judges have to divorce “Oh look, quads!” from their PCS. That’s what the technical score is for. Trusova was massively over scored in PCS, and should have been in the low 60s. She scored the same as Leona Hendrickx! And 2 points higher than Mariah Bell’s beautiful skate. At least when Nathan Chen decided to pull a quad fest in his Free Skate for 2018, he attacked every element, even the boring ones. 

Not to agree with or defend Eteri, but I’m guessing the context of her advice was that Sasha could never top a podium unless she landed all of her jumps, because the rest of her skating was so weak. A good coach would have worked on cleaning up her choreography and working on her basic skating skills, but Eteri doesn’t have time for her red headed step children.

[EllenB]

On 2/15/2022 at 6:06 PM, CeeBeeGee said:

 

Thank goodness for Mike Tirico. In the Age of Costas, we'd have been subjected to a 45 minute dramatic interpretation of the situation after each segment.

P.S. I have no idea why I have an empty quote box littering the comment space. Maybe the Russians put it there. 

[annzeepark914]

I've watched a few of the pairs and have a new favorite team: Barquero & Zandron, representing Spain. He's from Italy. They were training in the same rink with other partners and then teamed up last year. I think I just missed seeing K/F who had a good skate. Think I'll watch the rest tonight. This is too early for me!

[Hana Chan]

I've been doing a lot of thinking over the past few days on what might be done to fix figure skating and the sad fact is that because there are two very distinct and sometimes contradictory elements that make up the sport, reforms are going to be very difficult. It seems like everything that the ISU does to make scoring more transparent and logical just make things worse. You're trying to reward technical and athletic advances (like the quad revolution for both men and women) while still keeping the artistic elements that give the sport its soul. To often, it seems that the athletic/technical side of the sport are given so much weight that we see skaters like Trusova getting on the podium by virtue of athleticism alone.

The most recent reforms, for example, they raised a potential GOE for an element to +5 (and lowering a poor GOE to -5) ended up not making scoring more fair. Instead we saw certain skaters with highly inflated GOEs and others more proportionate. We have judges, all of whom are unpaid volunteers, unable to judge by any fair or reasonable standard. Favored skaters from favored coaches have their mistakes ignored while those who aren't the special snowflakes get zinged for any minor error mercilessly. If it's obvious to casual views (and with Johnny and Tara pulling no punches - finally - over how inconsistent and unfair the judging has gotten), then the sport is in serious trouble.

One proposition I saw was to have a team of professional judges in the employ of the ISU itself to do the judging at international meets. Having paid professionals with clear training and standards might help level the field a bit and stop the score inflation. Another proposal that I saw was to separate the judging and have one set of judges strictly for the technical/athletic elements and one for the artistic (with both scores holding equal weight in the final score). I think that both of these should be seriously considered.

One other option that I would propose is to end the -5/+5 GOE idea and instead do what we have in artistic gymnastics. Have each element have a maximum score (instead of a base value). The judges then would deduct for flaws/errors. This would markedly cut back on the score inflation and put a focus on not just completing an element, but doing it as correctly as possible. A lot of the things that the Russian girls (and even Nathan Chen) get away with like pre-rotations, wrong edges, etc. should not be rewarded with high GOEs the way they have been.

Obviously that also bring us to raising the age limit for women (and men) to compete as seniors. I think that is going to be unavoidable after this fiasco but I don't think it's going to hurt the sport. It didn't hurt gymnastics. What it will do is end the quad revolution for women, at least for now. Instead of depending on bad technique and pre-teen bodies, we would have to develop strong skaters who are able to complete these elements properly and with good technique who then have an opportunity to be competitive past the age of 18. It will take time for women to catch up, but the benefit will be less pressure on pre-teens to brutalize their bodies in order to get that skill set in so they can hit the Olympics at 15. I would also agree that limiting quad elements (for both men and women) and putting more emphasis on actual skating would help.

And then we have Eteri and the Russian Fed... they need to be banned. At least for one full quad and WADA and the IOC need to have a serious investigation into all aspects of their programs. That is unavoidable at this point, and not just for skating. This might be the most public and egregious example, but Russia has proven repeatedly that they cannot be permitted to manage any aspect of their doping surveillance. The fact that Valieva had these drugs in her sample, but it took over a month to get the results because her samples weren't flagged as priority the way they are required to be in not something that can be overlooked. Russia has run out of chances.

[Lilac2000]

I have many thoughts on all of this horrible situation. The ROC needs to be banned, Eteri needs to be investigated, etc. All of it has been pretty much covered. But if there is ever a movie Elizabeth Mitchell needs to play Eteri. EM seems like a lovely person in real life but she can play stone cold villain no problem and they look like sisters.

Edited February 18, 2022 by Lilac2000

[Ohiopirate02]

8 hours ago, gingerella said:

 

Can someone tell me what the everloving fuck was going on after KV skated? She broke down, then wtf was going on with the red head silver medalist probable cheater? She was psycho. The entire thing was so emotionally damaging..And why was the Japanese Skater bronze medalist hysterical as well? What a fucking shit show. 

 

Psycho is an extreme word here.  What we witnessed was Sasha finally figuring out her abusers lied to her.  She's seventeen and has spent the last however many years in an abusive environment so she does not know how to process her emotions in a healthy manner.  She may also have realized that her career as a figure skater is over and she was never going to get a gold.  All of her hard work, everything she gave up and all the abuse she suffered was for a silver medal.  She broke.  Apparently, she refused to leave the arena, refused food and drink and had to be forcibly removed at 3am by Eteri.  

Kaori's tears would have been due to mixed emotions.  She won bronze so she should be happy, but she won because someone else bombed.  She was also in the thick of the Russian shit show with Anna alone while Sasha and Kamila had meltdowns.  The CAS decision to allow Kamila to skate was always going to have negative mental health effects on her other competitors.  The sport is broken, any win is going to feel bittersweet.  

[Lady Whistleup]

I really think blaming "the Russians" is actually not understanding what the problem is. 

State-sponsored doping and cheating is happening not just in Russia, but probably in China as well. 

Child abuse of skater is unfortunately universal. Frank Carroll used to make Chris Bowman eat donuts and spin until he threw up. 

The goal needs to be banning coaches, trainers, and doctors who are abusive. 

[Hana Chan]

So nice to see Vanessa James skating again. I also loved her and she seems to be matching up well with her new partner. After what happened with Cipres (creep) I'm glad that she's making another Olympic showing.

[Good Queen Jane]

Let's hear it for the US pair skaters! 6th and 7th after the short is certainly higher than I thought they would be. Level 4 on all the elements and no splats on the jumps/throws. Good for them!

[Crs97]

I thought Johnny, Tara, and Terry’s best remarks were in connection with the tears from the medalists and how much every skater was affected.  Their strongest point was when Johnny talked about how the CAS had justified their decision as protecting Kamila from irreparable damage and then panned to the medalists backstage and wondered if they were watching and would think they succeeded.

[healthnut]

Fantastic pairs short program, S/H and T/M were phenomenal. Both American pairs were at their best. Ashley & Timothy were a better executed throw from being in fifth, they had the best triple twist I’ve ever seen them do. Loved P/J, I would’ve had them in 4th ahead of B/K but I’m biased. 

[ChicksDigScars]

Sui and Han are simply amazing. Cheering for them to get that OGM!

UGH. I never cared for Tarasova and Morozov, but now seeing who their coach is? Fuck no. I did notice that Eteri was behind the boards during the warm up, but she did not sit with them in the Kiss and Cry as their scores came in. I wonder if she purposely stayed out of the Kiss and Cry due to the bad press she's getting after yesterday? Not that she's ever shown that kind of self-awareness. Eteri seems more like a "fuck you all" kind of person. NBC showed her behind the boards and then cut to Thomas Bach's presser and comments about her. LOL. Nicely done, NBC. 

Do you think that Tamara Moskvina wants to knee cap Eteri? "Stay out of my lane, bitch."

And HELL YEAH to Knerim/Frazier (6th) and Cain-Gribble/LeDuc (7th). Great skates! I can't remember, is the pairs final group the Top Five or Top Six. Knerim/Frazier being sixth would be amazing accomplishment to be in the final group, but if memory serves, it's the Top Five. 

 

[specialj67]

2 minutes ago, ChicksDigScars said:

Sui and Han are simply amazing. Cheering for them to get that OGM!

UGH. I never cared for Tarasova and Morozov, but now seeing who their coach is? Fuck no. I did notice that Eteri was behind the boards during the warm up, but she did not sit with them in the Kiss and Cry as their scores came in. I wonder if she purposely stayed out of the Kiss and Cry due to the bad press she's getting after yesterday? Not that she's ever shown that kind of self-awareness. Eteri seems more like a "fuck you all" kind of person. NBC showed her behind the boards and then cut to Thomas Bach's presser and comments about her. LOL. Nicely done, NBC. 

Do you think that Tamara Moskvina wants to knee cap Eteri? "Stay out of my lane, bitch."

And HELL YEAH to Knerim/Frazier (6th) and Cain-Gribble/LeDuc (7th). Great skates! I can't remember, is the pairs final group the Top Five or Top Six. Knerim/Frazier being sixth would be amazing accomplishment to be in the final group, but if memory serves, it's the Top Five. 

 

Warm up groups for pairs skating is capped at 4 teams per group. They need a lot of room to practice their elements.

[Lady Whistleup]

I actually don't like Sui/Han. Their SBS spins are so out of sync and their throw technique pretty wild.

[absnow54]

35 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

The goal needs to be banning coaches, trainers, and doctors who are abusive. 

I agree. And this is across every sport. There needs to be more oversight in training facilities (yes, even in the US), and not by each countries federation. There should be an independent international board that routinely audit any training facility that has an athlete competing at an international level. 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, EllenB said:

P.S. I have no idea why I have an empty quote box littering the comment space. Maybe the Russians put it there. 

It represents Eteri's heart.

[Sarahsmile416]

2 minutes ago, absnow54 said:

I agree. And this is across every sport. There needs to be more oversight in training facilities (yes, even in the US), and not by each countries federation. There should be an independent international board that routinely audit any training facility that has an athlete competing at an international level. 

Yes.  Having heard some of the weight shaming comments (and I am sure other types of abusive comments) there needs to be a serious look at all coaches…not just Eteri.  

Which brings up another question - what “good” coaches are out there? 

[Rootbeer]

9 hours ago, pennben said:

I think the age limit should be raised commiserate with the age to be held responsible with the concequences. Because she was 15, Kamilla was a ‘ protected person’ meaning less penalties were possibly applicable to her. Coaches used that. Wanna be in Olympics? Be old enough to face full responsibility.  
also, we all shouldn’t focus on individuals. There is systemic abuse here. Fix that. 

From what I understand, the IOC calls her a 'protected person' in the rules but it is not clear what that means.

The CAS took it to mean that she would be exempt from suspension but the IOC and ISU argued that it was meant to recognize that a 15 year old was unlikely to truly understand the consequences or even obtain the means to dope, that, if someone under the age of 16 was caught; they would be 'protected' in the sense that their age would be taken into consideration in the length of suspension but, also, most importantly, that it would automatically trigger an investigation of all of the adults working with the athlete, presuming that the doping happened with the approval and assistance of an adult who should then be also sanctioned.

It seems the rule as written is too vague and needs to be revised to be veryspecific.

[Lady Whistleup]

1 minute ago, Sarahsmile416 said:

Yes.  Having heard some of the weight shaming comments (and I am sure other types of abusive comments) there needs to be a serious look at all coaches…not just Eteri.  

Which brings up another question - what “good” coaches are out there? 

Raf I think is very "old fashioned" about weight but his skaters do tend to last into adulthood and he has good relationships with his skaters.

Tamara Moskvina has shown a lot of success with a bunch of very different pairs teams over many years and again, her students seem to be on good terms with her years after retirement. I remember reading Natalia M saying whenever she goes back to Russia she visits Tamara.

Brian Orser is good for getting students with strong technique but emotional burnout back on track. Not sure how good of a technician he is though.

Alexei Mishin has students that again, last for years which suggests he teaches solid technique. Unfortunately his taste in programs and choreography is very bad.

Heard good things about IAM but that's only for ice dance.

[choclatechip45]

4 minutes ago, Sarahsmile416 said:

Yes.  Having heard some of the weight shaming comments (and I am sure other types of abusive comments) there needs to be a serious look at all coaches…not just Eteri.  

Which brings up another question - what “good” coaches are out there? 

Brian Orser and Tracy Wilson seem like good coaches. Unfortunately Brian is super picky who he coaches. 

It seems like Evgenia had a good experience with both of them it is unfortunate COVID brought that to an end.

[absnow54]

4 minutes ago, Sarahsmile416 said:

Which brings up another question - what “good” coaches are out there? 

I'm really curious about Team Rafie, because all of his skaters seem to stick around and always look like they're having a great time, and constantly make jokes at Rafie's expense, like he's some loveable grump.

[choclatechip45]

3 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

Raf I think is very "old fashioned" about weight but his skaters do tend to last into adulthood and he has good relationships with his skaters.

Tamara Moskvina has shown a lot of success with a bunch of very different pairs teams over many years and again, her students seem to be on good terms with her years after retirement. I remember reading Natalia M saying whenever she goes back to Russia she visits Tamara.

Brian Orser is good for getting students with strong technique but emotional burnout back on track. Not sure how good of a technician he is though.

Alexei Mishin has students that again, last for years which suggests he teaches solid technique. Unfortunately his taste in programs and choreography is very bad.

Heard good things about IAM but that's only for ice dance.

I feel like Raf is very much personality based. You are either going to clash with him or get along with him. Some of his comments are a bit cringe like when he called Adam an elephant. 

It will be interesting to see if he sticks around I know he has brought up retirement in a few interviews.

It's kind of sad how few high level coaches we have in the US.

Edited February 18, 2022 by choclatechip45

[ShellsandCheese]

27 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

I actually don't like Sui/Han. Their SBS spins are so out of sync and their throw technique pretty wild.

Agreed! I’m always shocked when I learn that so many people are rooting for them. 🤷🏽‍♀️