S01.E07: Sex and the Widow

[27bored]

On 1/15/2022 at 12:18 AM, ruby24 said:

I'm honestly wondering if they don't think Miranda is "cheating" on Steve or having an affair is because Che isn't a man? Is that why Miranda doesn't think it either? That's why it's something different or it doesn't count or something.

I said the other week that the show is trying to play this whole non-binary thing both ways and that’s why it comes off eye-rollingly contrived. Because they’re letting Che get away with something that a cisgendered heterosexual man could not get away with with impunity. A straight man could not tell a woman to step her pussy up. A straight man could not just shotgun a married woman, twice. A straight man couldn’t finger bang a married woman in another woman’s apartment while smoking weed and drinking. And a straight man could not get away with sleeping with a married woman and it be played as a sexual awakening. 
 

The one aspect of Che that I find someone realistic is actually the pot smoking. The show is being gamely nonjudgmental about pot, but IRL this is typically how it goes with people who smoke a lot of pot. They talk about it all. The. Time. They can’t go anywhere without having some on them or knowing where to get some. They go to events and functions high. They blame a lot of trifling ways on being high. Because of the times we live a lot of people who are a bit more progressive tend to be studiedly nonjudgmental but it’s like, people who drink to the same extent have a name for them: alcoholic. You don’t see too many shows calling people potheads as a criticism. Just saying.

And the thing is, even with Miranda’s newfound sapphic awakening, what about Che just does it for Miranda? Remember how it was a turn off how immature Steve was to Miranda. How he wasn’t ambitious, ate cereal during the day, watched Scooby-Doo, and wanted her to watch him shoot hoops? So now in her fifties, Che, who dresses like she just came from the skate park, chain smokes weed, and is a stand-up comic and has a kiss-and-tell podcast, does it for her? I don’t see where the synergy is beyond their 2 Girls 1 Finger scene.

Lastly, and I don’t want to sound like redpill manosphere here, but I think the writers have been trying to harness some of the palpable anti-male sentiment on social media. In the wake of the MeToo movement I think there are a lot of women who have soured on their overall view of men and have some trepidation when it comes to dating. You see a lot of women just openly say “men are trash” and “men are dogs” and “men hate women” on social media and forums. I think the writers wanted to pivot away from the “boy crazy” SATC of the late-90s/early-2000s into this late-2010s post-reckoning. And I think they thought their largely female audience would go along for the ride. But then the reviews came in and they realized women can’t be rocked to sleep so easily.
 

They thought women would be as exasperated at Steve as Miranda is and nod right along at this wildly inappropriate fling she’s having with Che. They probably thought women would find that “ew, no I don’t want this chubby, curly-haired guy to be my physical therapist (even though he’s in my provider network)…I want the hot guy whom I’ll have to pay for out of pocket” gag would be funny. They think having Charlotte refuse to apologize for knocking down her husband on account of him mansplaining and “women having to apologize all the time”, despite his hectoring her for an apology, was going to be a you-go-girl moment for the otherwise well-mannered to the point of being prissy Charlotte. But these plot points have landed with a thud, more or less.

Notice the only two men who seem to have some respectability are Dr. Nya’s husband and, to a slightly lesser extent, Anthony — the handsome Black man and the gay man. IJS.  But they already have Anthony getting handjobs at a school fundraiser so I’m just waiting on Dr. Nya’s up-to-this-point affable, supportive husband to do something shitty so the audience has a reason to write him off too.

Edited January 17, 2022 by 27bored

[ellenr33]

I just think that their is so many things that Che's character could bring to the storyline that could make her a likeable character. Maybe Charlotte could have said something to her about her daughter going through something like this and Che could have just told her that everything is going to be alright. But right now Che is so unlikeable. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

Pot/weed I don't even know the cool thing to call it, is totally legal where I am, and I really do not find that potheads ever talk about it.  I think that a lot of them still have their nervousness carried over from BEFORE it was legal.  They'll find each other discreetly, but no, they will never openly talk about it.  Only people who know them well know of their habit.  

Alcohol is something people joke and talk about super openly.  The people I know who smoke weed all the time are very discreet, that's just my personal experience.  And they're a bit younger than Sara Ramirez.

1 hour ago, 27bored said:

I said the other week that the show is trying to play this whole non-binary thing both ways and that’s why it comes off eye-rollingly contrived. Because they’re letting Che get away with something that a cisgendered heterosexual man could not get away with with impunity. A straight man could not tell a woman to step her pussy up. A straight man could not just shotgun a married woman, twice. A straight man couldn’t finger bang a married woman in another woman’s apartment while smoking weed and drinking. And a straight man could not get away with sleeping with a married woman and it be played as a sexual awakening. 

I agree with you, that this is what the show is trying to do and they think they're getting away with it. They seem to not understand that we're as disgusted with Miranda's behaviour no matter who it's with.

[SlovakPrincess]

18 hours ago, SnazzyDaisy said:

When Carrie met her book publisher.

Why do they do this with SJP’s hair?   Why??

[TakomaSnark]

1 hour ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I agree with you, that this is what the show is trying to do and they think they're getting away with it. They seem to not understand that we're as disgusted with Miranda's behaviour no matter who it's with.

Exactly. And taking the movies as canon - which, we have no reason not to - do the writers *not* remember this? Because we certainly do.

[27bored]

14 minutes ago, TakomaSnark said:

Exactly. And taking the movies as canon - which, we have no reason not to - do the writers *not* remember this? Because we certainly do.

You don’t get it. Miranda and her clitoris hadn’t come in contact with Che’s unwashed, non-binary, Latinx finger yet. 

Edited January 17, 2022 by 27bored

[Keywestclubkid]

42 minutes ago, TakomaSnark said:

Exactly. And taking the movies as canon - which, we have no reason not to - do the writers *not* remember this? Because we certainly do.

its like they did no research on the history of these characters 

[ifionlyknew]

I have a couple coworkers who smoke a lot of weed and they always reek of it.  I hate the smell of it so it's unpleasant for me.  If Miranda keeps hanging around (or more accurately on) Che Steve or more likely Brady is going to ask Miranda what she has been smoking.

I also agree the writers are trying to speak to the Me Too movement but they are denigrating men who haven't done anything wrong.  Miranda’s story would have worked so much better if when the show started her and Steve were already split up.  As been mentioned before it's not so much the affair is the problem (although the way they are presenting it is just so fucked up) it's her hypocrisy and the writer's outright refusal to acknowledge that.

[Keywestclubkid]

1 minute ago, ifionlyknew said:

it's not so much the affair is the problem (although the way they are presenting it is just so fucked up) it's her hypocrisy and the writer's outright refusal to acknowledge that.

And the fact NONE of her friends have an issue with it in the least 

[27bored]

7 minutes ago, Keywestclubkid said:

And the fact NONE of her friends have an issue with it in the least 

I almost feel like that’s realistic, at least for Carrie. Miranda was as non-judgmental as she could be when Carrie was sleeping with Big while he was married to Natasha. And Carrie has lost her husband and Samantha. So I think some of her trepidation in saying anything is she’s afraid she’ll lose Miranda too.

[Keywestclubkid]

2 minutes ago, 27bored said:

I almost feel like that’s realistic, at least for Carrie. Miranda was as non-judgmental as she could be when Carrie was sleeping with Big while he was married to Natasha. And Carrie has lost her husband and Samantha. So I think some of her trepidation in saying anything is she’s afraid she’ll lose Miranda too.

that just makes carrie a bigger shit person 

[ifionlyknew]

29 minutes ago, 27bored said:

I almost feel like that’s realistic, at least for Carrie. Miranda was as non-judgmental as she could be when Carrie was sleeping with Big while he was married to Natasha. And Carrie has lost her husband and Samantha. So I think some of her trepidation in saying anything is she’s afraid she’ll lose Miranda too.

That would be on brand for Carrie.  But if I saw my friend making a huge mistake (and no matter what they want us to think it is a mistake) I would tell them what I thought.  Carrie told Miranda she was wrong for not forgiving Steve for his affair.  So it's not like she doesn't stick her nose in their business.  

[luna1122]

It seems to me that both Charlotte and Carrie have let Miranda know they don't approve of the affair. Nobody's cheering her on. 

[Lethallyfab]

1 hour ago, Keywestclubkid said:

its like they did no research on the history of these characters 

Except MPK wrote and directed BOTH of the movies!  And a good chunk of the series!  Did he suffer a head injury?  Is he Che now, smoking so much weed that he can’t remember anything?
 

 I’m not a podcast person but for those who listened to the writers’ podcasts, I thank you because it really seems like the writers are just shoehorning their own personal experiences and/or trying to score woke points to offset the criticisms of the original series.

I’m sorry but you don’t get to be all “well, sure, she’s cheating but this is Miranda’s journey” when YOU were the person who wrote Miranda’s original journey about forgiving Steve cheating and how cheating was a HUGE DEAL in the first place!   
 

What’s terrible for the goose is apparently perfectly okay for the gander, I guess.

[27bored]

39 minutes ago, ifionlyknew said:

That would be on brand for Carrie.  But if I saw my friend making a huge mistake (and no matter what they want us to think it is a mistake) I would tell them what I thought.  Carrie told Miranda she was wrong for not forgiving Steve for his affair.  So it's not like she doesn't stick her nose in their business.  

Yeah I totally agree with that. I would say something too. 
 

I will say, though, Carrie kinda threw that in Miranda’s face because she blamed her for she said to Big at their rehearsal dinner. She was all, “how does it feel?!” and then stormed out of the restaurant. I’m just saying. It’s easy to have candor when you’re upset. 

[MBayGal]

18 hours ago, Lethallyfab said:

I know it probably won’t happen but I do hope they leave Eigenberg and Steve with the slightest shred of dignity by having him tell Miranda to eff off, but knowing this show and how completely all in they’ve gone in on Miranda’s “awakening” and the writers’ agendas, he’ll probably be like “I completely respect your sexual journey and evolution and understand that I was not giving you what you needed, which is entirely my fault.  I wish you and Che the best and I will parent Brady 100% from now on so that you will no longer have any heteronormative  cisgender shackles weighing down your transcendentally enlightened pansexual self.” 

Damn, you're good!  

[T Summer]

2 hours ago, luna1122 said:

It seems to me that both Charlotte and Carrie have let Miranda know they don't approve of the affair. Nobody's cheering her on. 

Yes. To be fair Carrie was getting quite shrill with Miranda asking what are you doing? You're married! after the post-op accident in bed scene. I couldn't help but  think about when she went as low as to occupy Big's marital bed with him while his wife  was away.

[T Summer]

7 hours ago, 27bored said:

The one aspect of Che that I find someone realistic is actually the pot smoking. The show is being gamely nonjudgmental about pot, but IRL this is typically how it goes with people who smoke a lot of pot. They talk about it all. The. Time. They can’t go anywhere without having some on them or knowing where to get some. They go to events and functions high. They blame a lot of trifling ways on being high. Because of the times we live a lot of people who are a bit more progressive tend to be studiedly nonjudgmental but it’s like, people who drink to the same extent have a name for them: alcoholic. You don’t see too many shows calling people potheads as a criticism. Just saying.

And the thing is, even with Miranda’s newfound sapphic awakening, what about Che just does it for Miranda? Remember how it was a turn off how immature Steve was to Miranda. How he wasn’t ambitious, ate cereal during the day, watched Scooby-Doo, and wanted her to watch him shoot hoops? So now in her fifties, Che, who dresses like she just came from the skate park, chain smokes weed, and is a stand-up comic and has a kiss-and-tell podcast, does it for her? I don’t see where the synergy is beyond their 2 Girls 1 Finger scene.

I've mentioned that Che and Miranda seem  like people in 2 different stages of life to me despite the fact there's only 9 years difference in the two actor's ages. Che seems a lot younger than Miranda. You've fleshed out the thought that it's hard to see how the two would relate to each other outside of sex. Miranda being 55 and having been wife, mother and a practicing attorney for most of her life. How is she going to relate to this [comes off as] 30something stoner who can't remember what was said and what happened from one day to the next? It seems  Miranda particularly at this stage of life, would probably spark with a much more sophisticated type of person. When they show Miranda watching Che onstage appearing totally enthralled like Che is absolutely killing it. I can't!  I only remember that expression briefly crossing Miranda's face when she made it to little Brady's school performance after missing it  so many times [due to work].

Some weed smokers talk about it all the time  and make it the main focus of their lives (I know I can remember people like that from school), and some don't  talk about it much  ...but Che talks about it a lot. Che's not bringing up a lot of other interesting topics on that sillyass podcast or off. Oh, I recall  talk of intestinal problems and fondness for  Mexican food over lunch and that came directly  from writer Samantha Irby's real life, again. Quelle suprise.

I have said Che has some charisma that comes across... but  trying to get the audience onboard with that being enough to have Miranda never give Steve's feelings a thought and completely forget that she's betraying him in the exact same way she felt so devastated over... is beyond ridiculous.

[Yeah No]

9 hours ago, 27bored said:

I said the other week that the show is trying to play this whole non-binary thing both ways and that’s why it comes off eye-rollingly contrived. Because they’re letting Che get away with something that a cisgendered heterosexual man could not get away with with impunity. A straight man could not tell a woman to step her pussy up. A straight man could not just shotgun a married woman, twice. A straight man couldn’t finger bang a married woman in another woman’s apartment while smoking weed and drinking. And a straight man could not get away with sleeping with a married woman and it be played as a sexual awakening. 

I couldn't agree with you more, every last word of it.  But think about what's really going on here.  What you describe above is a double standard.  What's wrong for men to do should also be wrong for women/non-binary people to do to anyone.  But it's not on this show.  And why is that so?  Because whoever is writing this has an agenda and the agenda is to put men down as "payment" for their perceived collective sins, especially straight white men.  And that to me is not what a movement for anyone's rights should be about.  If I were to say that in some venues I'd get chanted down and told I don't get it and that I'm "part of the problem" but no, I beg to disagree with them and their logic.  It's not in alignment with what I believe about equality.  Stereotyping men and attempting to marginalize them as a group to make up for whatever sins you hold them collectively responsible for is not equality, it's revenge, and revenge against a lot of men that didn't even do anything to deserve it.  And IMO that shouldn't be the goal here.  Did MPK listen to some particularly hateful people online and think that's where women are at in general these days about men?  Just because the voices are the loudest and most prevalent online doesn't mean they are representative of any majority of people out there.  

9 hours ago, 27bored said:

The one aspect of Che that I find someone realistic is actually the pot smoking. The show is being gamely nonjudgmental about pot, but IRL this is typically how it goes with people who smoke a lot of pot. They talk about it all. The. Time. They can’t go anywhere without having some on them or knowing where to get some. They go to events and functions high. They blame a lot of trifling ways on being high. Because of the times we live a lot of people who are a bit more progressive tend to be studiedly nonjudgmental but it’s like, people who drink to the same extent have a name for them: alcoholic. You don’t see too many shows calling people potheads as a criticism. Just saying.

No, you don't see too many shows criticizing pot usage, but again because it's there's a false double standard going on here.  Pot is for the new, "cool" people, and as we all know from being teenagers, the "cool" people can do whatever they want and not be criticized for it even if it is essentially similar to what the "uncool" people do.  Alcohol is what the straight white old men do and of course anything they do has to be bad, so even if pot is just as bad in some ways they won't criticize it because it's what the supposedly more "progressive" and "cool" people do.  It's so immature it's like it's directly out of someone's high school experience.

And TBH I don't feel that so-called "progressives" like this are nonjudgmental, but far MORE judgmental.  They're only non-judgmental to people they include in their "cool crowd".  To anyone else, they can be downright hateful.  These are not true progressives, but people trying to pass themselves off as progressives.  Just my opinion.

10 hours ago, 27bored said:

And the thing is, even with Miranda’s newfound sapphic awakening, what about Che just does it for Miranda? Remember how it was a turn off how immature Steve was to Miranda. How he wasn’t ambitious, ate cereal during the day, watched Scooby-Doo, and wanted her to watch him shoot hoops? So now in her fifties, Che, who dresses like she just came from the skate park, chain smokes weed, and is a stand-up comic and has a kiss-and-tell podcast, does it for her? I don’t see where the synergy is beyond their 2 Girls 1 Finger scene.

Again, see above, it's because Che is one of the "cool" people that they can do whatever they want and be made to look fantastic while Steve is made to look pathetic for equally immature behavior.  Although I would actually argue that Che's behavior is more immature and certainly more ethically questionable than Steve's.

10 hours ago, 27bored said:

Lastly, and I don’t want to sound like redpill manosphere here, but I think the writers have been trying to harness some of the palpable anti-male sentiment on social media. In the wake of the MeToo movement I think there are a lot of women who have soured on their overall view of men and have some trepidation when it comes to dating. You see a lot of women just openly say “men are trash” and “men are dogs” and “men hate women” on social media and forums. I think the writers wanted to pivot away from the “boy crazy” SATC of the late-90s/early-2000s into this late-2010s post-reckoning. And I think they thought their largely female audience would go along for the ride. But then the reviews came in and they realized women can’t be rocked to sleep so easily.

They thought women would be as exasperated at Steve as Miranda is and nod right along at this wildly inappropriate fling she’s having with Che. They probably thought women would find that “ew, no I don’t want this chubby, curly-haired guy to be my physical therapist (even though he’s in my provider network)…I want the hot guy whom I’ll have to pay for out of pocket” gag would be funny. They think having Charlotte refuse to apologize for knocking down her husband on account of him mansplaining and “women having to apologize all the time”, despite his hectoring her for an apology, was going to be a you-go-girl moment for the otherwise well-mannered to the point of being prissy Charlotte. But these plot points have landed with a thud, more or less.

Yes, exactly, exactly, this echoes what I've said in other posts.  But again you can't listen to a segment of the population gripe and think it necessarily represents the whole.  Plus a lot of what people say online is stuff they contradict when they go offline.  People are often just letting off steam.  They're not against ALL men, just the pigs.  MPK and the writers took them at their word and generalized them to everyone which is never the right thing to do.  The internet can give people a very skewed view of what the average person feels.  Even polls get it completely wrong.  But MPK and the writers should have known their audience better than to let that sentiment spread by a vocal minority of women make them think the majority their audience would suddenly be on board with this kind of stuff.

10 hours ago, 27bored said:

Notice the only two men who seem to have some respectability are Dr. Nya’s husband and, to a slightly lesser extent, Anthony — the handsome Black man and the gay man. IJS.  But they already have Anthony getting handjobs at a school fundraiser so I’m just waiting on Dr. Nya’s up-to-this-point affable, supportive husband to do something shitty so the audience has a reason to write him off too.

I doubt they'll do that to Dr. Nya's husband.  I think he's one of the "cool" people like Che who is put there to make men like Steve look "less than".

Excellent post!

[EllenB]

Why, why, why would a very grown-ass middle-aged person wear the expression and body language that Carrie has in this shot? It would already be ridiculous on someone twenty years younger. SJP may have been aiming for cute and flirty, but what she got was pathetic and embarrassing. It's an immature teen-age expression and pose, and very symbolic of how truly shitty and out of touch with reality this show is.

Edited January 18, 2022 by EllenB

[RealHousewife]

2 hours ago, Yeah No said:

And TBH I don't feel that so-called "progressives" like this are nonjudgmental, but far MORE judgmental.  They're only non-judgmental to people they include in their "cool crowd".  To anyone else, they can be downright hateful.  These are not true progressives, but people trying to pass themselves off as progressives.  Just my opinion.

I've known so many of those! I consider myself a true one. You want to wait until marriage to have sex, never drink or smoke in your life? Cool. You wanna mess around with so many people you can't keep track and try every drug? Your business too. But don't tell me how to live my life either way. I've definitely felt judged for not being into drinking or smoking anything. We all have our reasons for our lifestyles. 

[Sweet-tea]

On 1/13/2022 at 11:41 AM, TakomaSnark said:

This episode really encapsulated what's going wrong with the writing: They have Carrie get pressured into starting to date again, she meets a perfectly lovely man, they vomit on each other and then... The very next night they're coincidentally at the same charity event, all in one episode?

They're not giving any of the stories breathing room. Tenney may show up again but his introduction felt bum-rushed. This is why it feels to me like the better starting point would have been a year after Big died. I get that SJP wouldn't have gotten her 'mourning scenes' but we already got those in the first movie. It would have been a better stretch for her to be past that immediate shock and with only ten episodes, a better path to telling the story of Carrie considering going back out there into the dating pool.

I agree. It’s too early for her to be dating. She needs time to grieve. They haven’t allowed that time and are trying to jam everything into one season. 

The scene between Charlotte and Harry didn’t feel authentic to me. Charlotte doesn’t usually swear like that, and the sorry thing was silly. I understand them wanting to make a point about women always apologizing, but the example of the tennis game was a poor one. Just about anyone would’ve apologized for knocking someone over, let alone your spouse. 

I fast-forwarded through Miranda and Che’s sex scene. I don’t believe she’s in love with Che. This is about sex, and as others have said, Che’s high most of the time. It doesn’t seem like a real or healthy relationship. If Charlotte isn’t happy with Steve, then she needs to leave him, not cheat on him. I can’t relate to her on this at all. She’s behaving horribly. 

I’m not sure what this show needs but it’s really struggling. 

Edited January 19, 2022 by Sweet-tea
Miranda not Charlotte

[Baltimore Betty]

5 minutes ago, Sweet-tea said:

I agree. It’s too early for her to be dating. She needs time to grieve. They haven’t allowed that time and are trying to jam everything into one season. 

The scene between Charlotte and Harry didn’t feel authentic to me. Charlotte doesn’t usually swear like that, and the sorry thing was silly. I understand them wanting to make a point about women always apologizing, but the example of the tennis game was a poor one. Just about anyone would’ve apologized for knocking someone over, let alone your spouse. 

I fast-forwarded through Charlotte and Che’s sex scene. I don’t believe she’s in love with her. This is about sex, and as others have said, Che’s high most of the time. It doesn’t seem like a real or healthy relationship. If Charlotte isn’t happy with Steve, then she needs to leave him, not cheat on him. I can’t relate to her on this at all. She’s behaving horribly. 

I’m not sure what this show needs but it’s really struggling. 

I think you mean Miranda...although it would be an interesting plot twist is Che managed to bed all the ladies, lol.

[ifionlyknew]

8 hours ago, Yeah No said:

These are not true progressives, but people trying to pass themselves off as progressives.  Just my opinion.

I think this is a very apt description of the writing for this show.  They are checking boxes for things they consider "woke".  But to quote Gertrude Stein there is no there there.   The character development and throughout the series the characters evolving (minus Carrie) was done very well on SATC.  You understood why the characters did what they did.  Their actions and reactions came from within.  But with this train wreck they portraying Steve as a bumbling old fool who Miranda is embarrassed of to explain her affair (and yes writers it is an affair) and having Harry wrongfully (according to the writers) ask Charlotte for an apology because he was apparently mansplaining and Charlotte had just had enough and oh yeah fuck the patriarchy or something like that.  Truly progressive projects don't beat you over the head with it.  They just have characters who have progressive values and live their lives according to them.  Golden Girls was a progressive show.  AJLT is not.  

46 minutes ago, Sweet-tea said:

I’m not sure what this show needs but it’s really struggling. 

They need better writers.

[27bored]

17 hours ago, Yeah No said:

No, you don't see too many shows criticizing pot usage, but again because it's there's a false double standard going on here.  Pot is for the new, "cool" people, and as we all know from being teenagers, the "cool" people can do whatever they want and not be criticized for it even if it is essentially similar to what the "uncool" people do.  Alcohol is what the straight white old men do and of course anything they do has to be bad, so even if pot is just as bad in some ways they won't criticize it because it's what the supposedly more "progressive" and "cool" people do.  It's so immature it's like it's directly out of someone's high school experience.

And TBH I don't feel that so-called "progressives" like this are nonjudgmental, but far MORE judgmental.  They're only non-judgmental to people they include in their "cool crowd".  To anyone else, they can be downright hateful.  These are not true progressives, but people trying to pass themselves off as progressives.  Just my opinion.

I agree with most of what you said but especially this part.

The thing is, and this might be somewhat anecdotal, but on the whole I tend to agree that there are more alcoholics out there and alcohol, on balance, is probably worse for your health than marijuana in most regards, but the difference is largely in how both are used. 
 

Like, there are women who will wait until the kids go to bed then curl up on the couch with a bottle of Sherry and buttery pretzels and watch Netflix. If you go out to a Mexican restaurant on a Friday night with your girlfriends, you might order a pitcher of margaritas. If you go to brunch on Sunday and they have bottomless mimosas, you might order some. If you go to a microbrewery you might get an IPA and some appetizers. That’s the extent of the relationship most people have with alcohol. People who enjoy drinking don’t necessarily enjoy being drunk (especially over thirty).
 

For most people there’s no wake and bake equivalent for drinking. You don’t get up on a Wednesday and crack open a beer. You don’t necessarily need a deep buzz to enjoy a music festival or eat an edible before seeing a movie in IMAX 3-D. If you need a buzz just to get through the day or you can’t put together two weeks without throwing back a few, you…may have a drinking problem. 

How this relates back to Che is, even though the show is doing its best to play it off like it’s just a harmless activity that gives them some edge, Che seems to enjoy being high…at funerals, just randomly during the day, after gigs and other professional events, before sex. 
 

And I’m sorry for turning this into a TEDTalk about the evils of marijuana, not that I’m trying to, but for me that aspect of Che’s character seems realistic but it also feeds back into the main problem that I have. Just because they made Che non-binary doesn’t make being an over-30 pothead somehow cool and intriguing and sexy — and I think the writers know it wouldn’t play well if Che was a cis het male, lest we forget when Carrie dated the comic book guy who lived with his parents and still had a bong and tried to hide his stash from his mom, because yeah, it kinda denotes a certain level of immaturity and the show was sure to put a point on that when it was a guy — and the show hasn’t told us why Che does it for Miranda outside of not being her husband. 
 

At least with Samantha and Maria, Maria seemed smitten with Samantha, and played into Samantha’s high opinion of herself. Che just seemed to get a good whiff of Miranda’s desperation and played on that. She finger banged Miranda and then ghosted her for three months. And Miranda even refers to herself as Rambo to Che. Like, eww. Charlotte was right: she should’ve just dyed her hair because her self-respect account is almost at a negative balance right now.

Edited January 18, 2022 by 27bored

[ifionlyknew]

29 minutes ago, 27bored said:

Just because they made Che non-binary doesn’t make being an over-30 pothead somehow cool and intriguing and sexy — and I think the writers know it wouldn’t play well if Che was a cis het male, lest we forget when Carrie dated the comic book guy who lived with his parents and still had a bong and tried to hide his stash from his mom, because yeah, it kinda denotes a certain level of immaturity and the show was sure to put a point on that when it was a guy

This is true.  They portrayed the comic book guy as a slacker.  Yes he lived with his parents but he was trying to have his own business.  For all we know his business did become a success.  But the writer seem to be under the impression just because Che is non binary that nothing they do is going to be troublesome.  They get high all the time? So what?  They were ghosting Miranda?  Yeah not really they were just too high to read or remember all their DM's.  They are knowingly having an affair with a married woman?  Who cares they are non binary so it's all good.  That is what this whole thing plays like.  

I would like to hear from real life non binary people and hear their take on Che.

[Amethyst]

I thought this episode was decent, but yeah, the ratings have to be in the toilet.

Nya and the IVF plot is so removed from everything else, I don't really care about it.  I do like her and her husband, though.  It's nice to see a healthy relationship in this shit show of a revival.

Like Miranda's situation with Che, there is an interesting story with Charlotte: she feels truly free when she's playing tennis and doesn't have to abide by the WASPy social rules that she holds herself to.  But toppling Harry like that was just rude, not to mention poor sportsmanship, and doing so in the name of "feminism" is a cop out.  Charlotte would have been livid if someone else had done that to one of her loved ones, and her refusing to budge on something so minor as an apology (that she actually does owe Harry) really just makes Charlotte look silly and childish.  And her cursing Harry in the street just came out of nowhere. 

Thanks to all who mentioned the unpleasant barf fest of a date.  I'm glad to have been prepared.  Still, I understand why it happened.  Two people who are trying to start again after the deaths of their loved ones...they're bound to drink a lot.

Can't say anything about Miranda that hasn't been said.  Just a complete disappointment.  This may sound far fetched but I was wondering if there was some contract issue with Eisenberg, because the fact that any of the girls refuse to actually say his name makes no sense.  They're more concerned that Miranda is with a woman rather than her cheating on her husband.  Steve is almost like Voldemort: he who must not be named.

That auction was a joke.  I felt bad for Lisa.  Her husband came off as an ass, especially when he started calling Carrie "the sex writer."  It appeared to be out of desperation, but it was still poor form.  And why would a date with a sex writer like Carrie and a bawdy comic like Che even be offered in a children's charity function?

Edited January 19, 2022 by Amethyst
Duplicate line

[T Summer]

11 minutes ago, Amethyst said:

That auction was a joke.  I felt bad for Lisa.  Her husband came off as an ass, especially when he started calling Carrie "the sex writer."  It appeared to be out of desperation, but it was still poor form.  And why would a date with a sex writer like Carrie and a bawdy comic like Che even be offered in a children's charity function?

Excellent point.

Doesn't  the lady who fumbled trying to operate and speak into the microphone Lisa (LTW)  make documentary films?

[Baltimore Betty]

2 minutes ago, T Summer said:

Excellent point.

Doesn't  the lady who fumbled trying to operate and speak into the microphone Lisa (LTW)  make documentary films?

This!  

The writers forget from minute to the next what they have written and who the characters are or have been in the past.

[tennisgurl]

I guess the point of Che is that they aren't Miranda's usual type and that why its all so excited for Miranda, beyond her queer awakening and her deciding her marriage is dead, but I just don't see why Miranda is so head over heels for them. They just don't seem like Miranda's type, even beyond being non binary. If they wanted Miranda to get a new LGBTQ love interest, they really have gone with the professor. She's intelligent, funny, academically inclined, if they made the professor single and LGBTQ I could have at least bought an attraction between them, even if they still handled the affair in such a shitty way. With Che, I truly do not get it, unless it really is that Miranda is just that desperate for anyone lacking a dick, which doesn't say much for this "journey" we're supposed to be rooting for. 

I have no problem with pot, but like with anything that goes into your body, especially when it can alter your awareness, I think its good to use it responsibly and in moderation. Che being high so often that they apparently forget half the messages they get or days start to blur seems like they might have some bigger issues. That really doesn't sound healthy.  

[txhorns79]

3 hours ago, Amethyst said:

And why would a date with a sex writer like Carrie and a bawdy comic like Che even be offered in a children's charity function?

I mean, the money raised might go to support kids, but the auction is for the adults.  There's nothing inappropriate about offering a lunch with Carrie or whatever it was with Che as auction items.     

[Ms Blue Jay]

What if it was letting your son smoke weed at a funeral, being shotgunned, getting fingerbanged in the kitchen, then getting left on read for 3 months?  ........ Kidding

[Snazzy Daisy]

On 1/18/2022 at 5:30 AM, SlovakPrincess said:

Why do they do this with SJP’s hair?   Why??

Maybe SJP doesn’t want to wear hair extensions that often.

[Cosmocrush]

On 1/17/2022 at 1:30 PM, SlovakPrincess said:

Why do they do this with SJP’s hair?   Why??

I think they are trying to make her look like an old grandma.   On AJLT 55 is the new 85. Just ask Steve. 

[T Summer]

On 1/17/2022 at 4:30 PM, SlovakPrincess said:

Why do they do this with SJP’s hair?   Why??

 

1 hour ago, Cosmocrush said:

I think they are trying to make her look like an old grandma.   On AJLT 55 is the new 85. Just ask Steve. 

I have a lot of  coily hair that resembles "Carrie's" hair in length and color. As it's dry, I don't wash it daily. If it's not looking it's best every curl the same low/no frizz and I have to go somewhere I put it up loosely and pull some strands out around my face to soften the look. Why can't the army of stylists on hand do something like that to Carrie's hair?

Edited January 19, 2022 by T Summer
omission, typo

[Amethyst]

7 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I mean, the money raised might go to support kids, but the auction is for the adults.  There's nothing inappropriate about offering a lunch with Carrie or whatever it was with Che as auction items.     

I know the auction was for the parents, but the money is still being associated with a children’s school.  I was surprised that none of the parents objected or were uncomfortable with Carrie and Che’s involvement.  One of the guys did yell that they were all married and weren’t going to bid on Carrie.  

[SuzieSioux]

@Yeah No I really enjoyed reading your post, it was very interesting and I agree with you. I hadn't thought of it before but when you said:

On 1/18/2022 at 4:25 PM, Yeah No said:

It's not in alignment with what I believe about equality.

I realised that this is so true for me too. I'm passionate about equality and multiculturalism, and I don't believe true equality comes from icing out one particular segment of society. As you say, that's revenge.

Re: the writers on this show, one of them is Samantha Irby, and when I found out she was friends with Roxane Gay, it all made sense. There is a group of writers out there now who are very keen to point out every problem from the past, real and perceived, but when it comes time to writing themselves and fixing these things, they tend to show that they have no skills in this area at all, apart from lazily hitting certain "diversity" notes. Gay claimed that episode 5 of AJLT (written by Irby) was "truly excellent" and I'm sure there's no bias there at all (she said, sarcastically). However, I haven't heard many other viewers rave about that episode at all. In fact, it gave birth to the hilarious "Hey, it's Che Diaz" memes which are anything but complimentary.

Irby absolutely seems like the kind of person who wants people to be put off by the kitchen scene so she can claim victimisation. But I digress. Thanks for letting me rant, anyway.

[27bored]

4 hours ago, SuzieSioux said:

@Yeah No I really enjoyed reading your post, it was very interesting and I agree with you. I hadn't thought of it before but when you said:

I realised that this is so true for me too. I'm passionate about equality and multiculturalism, and I don't believe true equality comes from icing out one particular segment of society. As you say, that's revenge.

Re: the writers on this show, one of them is Samantha Irby, and when I found out she was friends with Roxane Gay, it all made sense. There is a group of writers out there now who are very keen to point out every problem from the past, real and perceived, but when it comes time to writing themselves and fixing these things, they tend to show that they have no skills in this area at all, apart from lazily hitting certain "diversity" notes. Gay claimed that episode 5 of AJLT (written by Irby) was "truly excellent" and I'm sure there's no bias there at all (she said, sarcastically). However, I haven't heard many other viewers rave about that episode at all. In fact, it gave birth to the hilarious "Hey, it's Che Diaz" memes which are anything but complimentary.

Irby absolutely seems like the kind of person who wants people to be put off by the kitchen scene so she can claim victimisation. But I digress. Thanks for letting me rant, anyway.

I agree. After reading your post I did a quick Googling of Samantha Irby and, yeah. I got it. 
 

Not that I care as a personal matter, Samantha Irby is gay, calls herself a comedienne, and seems to make a point to talk about her weight. To get the mild shade out of the way: just because some people think you’re funny doesn’t make you a comedian. But more importantly, maybe her involvement is why this show feels off in some ways. There may be a (totally understandable yet noticeable) blind spot in perspective. That might be part of the reason why the sex on this show is so unsexy. That’s why the show wants us to go along with this idea that Miranda is having some transcendent experience with Che. A lesbian might feel that way; but speaking to the character thus far, a woman in her 50s who has been with roughly, what, 40 something men, probably isn’t going to act like that. But they act like Che had one of the Infinity Stones and was going to town on Miranda’s box. 
 

It’s like you said, though, I think it’s more so the need to Make A Point that kind of makes it seem unrealistic. That’s the real vibe I get from Samantha Irby. She can’t just be heavyset and comfortable in her own skin. No, she has to brand it and make it part of her comedy. It’s giving Lizzo. 

[SlovakPrincess]

7 hours ago, T Summer said:

 

I have a lot of  coily hair that resembles "Carrie's" hair in length and color. As it's dry, I don't wash it daily. If it's not looking it's best every curl the same low/no frizz and I have to go somewhere I put it up loosely and pull some strands out around my face to soften the look. Why can't the army of stylists on hand do something like that to Carrie's hair?

Yes, this would look cute on her!   When they pull it back tight it (a) looks painful and I feel it in my own scalp and (b) reminds me of that Family Stone movie where that severe hair style was supposed to show her character was uptight and unlikeable.

i just feel like if you’ve been in an entire movie where this hair style was part of the joke, you shouldn’t allow it to be done to you!  😂

Edited January 19, 2022 by SlovakPrincess

[ifionlyknew]

7 hours ago, SuzieSioux said:

I realised that this is so true for me too. I'm passionate about equality and multiculturalism, and I don't believe true equality comes from icing out one particular segment of society. As you say, that's revenge.

It really does feel like this show has an us against them type of mentality.   And that is definitely not being inclusive.  

7 hours ago, SuzieSioux said:

Irby absolutely seems like the kind of person who wants people to be put off by the kitchen scene so she can claim victimisation.

On the podcast I listened to it was about that particular episode and Irby did say the negative things people were saying online hurt her feelings.   So yeah she is upset it is not being received the way she intended.  Or like you said @SuzieSioux this is how she intended things to be and now she can say viewers just aren't woke enough.  

2 hours ago, 27bored said:

That might be part of the reason why the sex on this show is so unsexy.

My friend and I were discussing how the sex on this show is so decidedly unsexy compared to SATC.  The sex on that show looked fun, especially Samantha having sex.  But on AJLT I'm uncomfortable watching it.  

2 hours ago, 27bored said:

To get the mild shade out of the way: just because some people think you’re funny doesn’t make you a comedian.

I had heard he name before but didn't know who she was.  Once I found out she was writing for this show I looked her up.  Am I wrong in saying she isn't as famous as we are supposed to think she is?  Kinda like Che right?

[Yeah No]

8 hours ago, SuzieSioux said:

Irby absolutely seems like the kind of person who wants people to be put off by the kitchen scene so she can claim victimisation. But I digress. Thanks for letting me rant, anyway.

Bingo, this just about sums it all up for me.  Irby's crying about the episode's (and the show's) poor reception just shows to me that her goal was to "prove" her victimhood by making sure to offend the audience.  Now she can tell herself we really ARE hateful people that don't want to accept social change and are out to hurt her for being who she is.  Her goal was never to get people on board with accepting her or any of the "woke" themes put forth so far in this series.  It was to engage in a self-defeating vicious circle of blame and rejection.  And THAT is what has ruined this series.  It's amazing to me how people on the production end of this show are so buying into the implied guilt put on them that they would allow this to happen.  But that's what happens when otherwise well meaning people who maybe just needed a little nudge to update their attitudes instead get sucked into believing the narrative that they have been victimizing people different from them and need to be taken down and offended to atone for their sins. 

[ifionlyknew]

50 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

  It's amazing to me how people on the production end of this show are so buying into the implied guilt put on them that they would allow this to happen. 

I  think HBO needs blamed as well.  They have always considered themselves edgy and always pushing the envelope so of course they aren't going to tell these "woke" people they aren't doing a good job.  If they had we would hear an endless chorus of "we didn't have the support we needed" or even worse "we didn't get to do what we really wanted to because we weren't allowed".  

And interestingly enough Cynthia Nixon and Kristin Davis both did a lot a publicity for AJLT.  Both were guests on multiple shows promoting it.  SJP did not. Maybe she is busy filming something but I would still think she would  have promoted it.

[27bored]

1 hour ago, ifionlyknew said:

I had heard he name before but didn't know who she was.  Once I found out she was writing for this show I looked her up.  Am I wrong in saying she isn't as famous as we are supposed to think she is?  Kinda like Che right?

Right! 
 

I read a fan theory that the first-draft of the Che character was probably just meant to be a lesbian (“stud”) that Miranda fell in love with but they made her non-binary once they cast Sara Ramirez since the actor identifies as non-binary as well. It would follow given how some of the other characters and plots seem to be taken from the lives of the actors and writers.

[ifionlyknew]

35 minutes ago, 27bored said:

I read a fan theory that the first-draft of the Che character was probably just meant to be a lesbian (“stud”) that Miranda fell in love with but they made her non-binary once they cast Sara Ramirez since the actor identifies as non-binary as well. It would follow given how some of the other characters and plots seem to be taken from the lives of the actors and writers.

If they were hellbent on having Miranda fall in love with someone who  wasn't a man it should have been someone she had things in common with.  Like Nya.  Those two  have more chemistry in their scenes together than Miranda and Che which IMO have zero chemistry.  

[Yeah No]

1 hour ago, ifionlyknew said:

And interestingly enough Cynthia Nixon and Kristin Davis both did a lot a publicity for AJLT.  Both were guests on multiple shows promoting it.  SJP did not. Maybe she is busy filming something but I would still think she would  have promoted it.

Me too.  And I think the same reason SJP didn't promote it may also be the same reason her character hasn't been completely decimated by the show.  It's like Carrie has a forcefield of protection around her.  Even on this thread it has already been speculated that she must have insisted on that.  And because she is who she is, she got her way.

[ifionlyknew]

4 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

Me too.  And I think the same reason SJP didn't promote it may also be the same reason her character hasn't been completely decimated by the show.  It's like Carrie has a forcefield of protection around her.  Even on this thread it has already been speculated that she must have insisted on that.  And because she is who she is, she got her way.

I have to agree with you.  I never thought I would say this with regards to Carrie but her character is looking the best of the three. Not counting Samantha who I believe is living her best life in London.   Now it's true she has been made to vomit and attempt to pee in a Snapple bottle but she still comes off looking better than Miranda and for the most part Charlotte.    

 

[rlc]

On 1/13/2022 at 4:22 PM, Lethallyfab said:

The sex scene between Miranda and Steve was one of the most uncomfortable things I’ve had to witness.  All she wanted to do was masturbate again thinking about Che, just using Steve’s hand to do it.  

Assuming the Che/Miranda kitchen scene was the number one most uncomfortable because that was one of the worst things I've ever seen, followed by the Miranda-continues-to-masturbate-while-having-aconverstaion-with-her-son scene. Ew.

[RedHawk]

1 minute ago, rlc said:

Assuming the Che/Miranda kitchen scene was the number one most uncomfortable because that was one of the worst things I've ever seen, followed by the Miranda-continues-to-masturbate-while-having-aconverstaion-with-her-son scene. Ew.

Followed by the Big-starts-to-masturbate scene because it was the very first episode and we were not ready for that! It's gone downhill from there.

[SFoster21]

On 1/17/2022 at 11:07 PM, EllenB said:

Why, why, why would a very grown-ass middle-aged person wear the expression and body language that Carrie has in this shot? It would already be ridiculous on someone twenty years younger. SJP may have been aiming for cute and flirty, but what she got was pathetic and embarrassing. It's an immature teen-age expression and pose, and very symbolic of how truly shitty and out of touch with reality this show is.

That’s always been her schtick. She’s always been coy and silly around guys she likes.

[NeenerNeener]

8 hours ago, 27bored said:

Samantha Irby is gay, calls herself a comedienne,

So Che is Irby's avatar on the show?