S01.E03: When in Rome...

[Aulty]

Quote

Upon learning of a surprising development concerning Big's ex-wife, Carrie seeks answers. Meanwhile, Charlotte worries about an unexpected revelation.

Original Air Date: December 16, 2021

[Toodleoo]

I love the detail that Big was vaccinated and that they subtly highlighted the unwieldy size of the vaccine cards.  And this episode put to bed the question of whether or not Miranda is an alcoholic (and that she’s at least bi-curious), but it was a bit silly that they wrote her as being weedphobic. Maybe I remember the Post It episode incorrectly?

Also very amused that Stanford called Charlotte out on her cliquishness!

Loved Anthony’s advice to Charlotte regarding Rose. Be supportive and let her cook a little longer. There’s all kinds of input from peers and social media for kids that age; maybe the gender issue is real for her or maybe she’s working through some questions due to external input.

Annoying that Carrie felt she was owed interaction with Natasha; very amused that Natasha was again not having it and that it turned Carrie into a crazy(ier) lady.  Even though Natasha eventually gave in, props that she was gracious as hell about it.

I’ve not lost a spouse (but frequently worry about losing my beau), so I can only imagine what it would be like to find out a bunch of unknowns about them after their death…but somehow the way Carrie is written made it again annoying that she feels she is entitled to his secrets, regardless of whether any spouse actually is or not.  I get it, I’d want to know everything and grief is weird and individual and has no timeline, but the character of Carrie is just aggravating about it. I guess I’ll just never like Carrie, period.

The writing did feel more natural this time and I’ll assume that’s due to the women writers contributing this time. Really enjoying Sara Ramirez!

 

Edited December 16, 2021 by Toodleoo

[Harvey]

I loved the scene where Carrie tried to get into Big's computer. I was right there with her and felt every emotion, that situation is so frustrating. But her tumoltous journey in this episode was worth it, because after her talk with Natasha, she found her way back to her sad happy ending. It was illustrated very well. 

Also, the scene where she called herself was pretty funny 🤣. I really liked that she went back to her old house in the end of the episode. She lived there when she was single so it makes sense for her thematically to return.

 

Amazed by the renewal, every episode has been outstanding so far. ❤️

[Hana Chan]

Hands up, whoever had "Miranda questions her sexuality" on their bingo cards.

2 hours ago, Toodleoo said:

I’ve not lost a spouse (but frequently worry about losing my beau), so I can only imagine what it would be like to find out a bunch of unknowns about them after their death…but somehow the way Carrie is written made it again annoying that she feels she is entitled to his secrets, regardless of whether any spouse actually is or not.

We're going through this right now. My mother passed away just under a year ago and I've been helping my father through the grieving process. Losing a spouse is one of the most painful things anyone will ever go through, especially in a long term relationship (my parents would have been married 55 years this past April). I just can't buy Carrie's grieving journey because they do seem determined to go rushing through it. For someone who was married for nearly 20 years, she seems to know very little about her husband's life outside of their little cocoon. She seemed to know little about his past and apparently they had zero talks about his wishes should he die before her (something very probable given their age differences). 

It makes sense for Big to leave a small gift (by his standards) to Natasha given how shabbily she was treated, but of course this triggers Carrie and she automatically starts fearing that he still had feelings for his ex-wife or that they were having an affair. It just keeps cementing the impression that she and Big barely had a real marriage. They might have loved one another, but their lives didn't have much of a connection.

And while everyone grieve differently, Carrie does seem to be getting over losing the love of her life pretty quickly. After watching my father still mourning the loss of his wife after nearly a year, this just rubs me the wrong way. No, I'm not interested in seeing the recently widowed Carrie finding love again. 

Can I fast forward through all of Charlotte's storyline? Or lack thereof? 

As for Miranda... she and Steve hadn't had sex in years. I guess that their son is making up for their lack of a sex life.

Let me put on my surprised face that they have to have Miranda sexually awakened by Che, regardless of the fact that in all the years we've seen her character on the show that she never expressed any real interest in women. That when Samantha dabbled in bisexuality and had an actual girlfriend, Miranda scoffed at the idea. But because Cynthia Nixon is queer, her character must follow suit. It's just such a transparent and lazy way for the writers to show how "current" they are. *yawn*

[Maum]

And just like that... Carrie reminds us what a shitty person she is. 

Stalking Natasha and refusing to respect her boundaries... again. Seriously Natasha is a bloody saint! In her shoes I wouldn't have given Carrie the time of day. 

The fact that the first half of the episode was a rehash of a previous one was also rather jarring. 

But mostly dismissing Charlotte's concerns about Miranda (a mini party in her back pack, really????) even though Miranda drops everything to support her through her grief. 

Asking Charlotte to stop noticing things was the shittiest comment possible. 

 

Carrie was always a selfish friend and after 20 years she clearly hasn't changed. 

 

PS isn't Gogi the computer password? It seemed so obvious. 

Edited December 16, 2021 by Maum

[ifionlyknew]

Did I really hear Carrie say Big chose her over Natasha?  That isn't how I remember it.

So I guess we are going to see Miranda take the same path as Cynthia Nixon and be attracted to someone who isn't her male partner.  I'm fine with that storyline as I am someone who was never a fan of Miranda and Steve together.   But I think Miranda would have connected more with the professor.  

3 hours ago, Toodleoo said:

Loved Anthony’s advice to Charlotte regarding Rose. Be supportive and let her cook a little longer. There’s all kinds of input from peers and social media for kids that age; maybe the gender issue is real for her or maybe she’s working through some questions due to external input.

Agree.  This could be a good storyline if they write it well which unfortunately I don't think they will.

3 hours ago, Toodleoo said:

I’ve not lost a spouse (but frequently worry about losing my beau), so I can only imagine what it would be like to find out a bunch of unknowns about them after their death…but somehow the way Carrie is written made it again annoying that she feels she is entitled to his secrets, regardless of whether any spouse actually is or not.  I get it, I’d want to know everything and grief is weird and individual and has no timeline, but the character of Carrie is just aggravating about it. I guess I’ll just never like Carrie, period.

I have lost a spouse and there are always going to be things you didn't know about them.  Did they finish the reading of the will offscreen?  Does Carrie get everything minus the charitable gifts and Natasha's $1 million?  

After my husband died (I was 43 so even younger than Carrie) I cried every day for almost a year.  Not all day but at least once a day I would cry. I don't think we have seen Carrie process what happened.  She was always an emotional person (although not as emotional as Charlotte) and what we are seeing is Carrie very tightly wound. Which is understandable.  She is probably thinking if I let go I will never recover.  But she will never get over the acute grief if she doesn't deal with it.  

Still miss Samantha.  

[BingeyKohan]

It's starting to feel like Charlotte should follow Samantha's lead and leave this friend group behind - maybe that's part of what propels her to her new friend (who weirdly showed up in the previously on even though she wasn't even mentioned this episode).

This episode had the scene from the earlier script-page leak (proving it wasn't a plant to throw us off the scent of the storyline, though out of context I could see how people could interpret it as merely Big and Carrie having a rough patch vs him being gone).

I didn't get Carrie acting like the upper west side was exotic to her - her old apartment is supposed to be on the Upper East.

 

Edited December 16, 2021 by BingeyKohan

[Hana Chan]

3 minutes ago, Maum said:

And just like that... Carrie reminds us what a shitty person she is. 

Carrie should get a bit of leeway because she's mourning, but she is a terrible person. Aside from being so self-centered that she just can't bring herself to care that something might be wrong with one of her friends (and yeah, they're going down the "Miranda is a functioning alcoholic" route), the stalking of Natasha was an absolutely terrible thing to do. She was the one who ruined Natasha's marriage with Big by having an affair with him (and no, I don't buy that they were "soulmates" as an excuse), then got Natasha badly injured. Natasha had every right to tell Carrie to fuck off. 

On the plus side, Natasha's teeth looked great.

3 minutes ago, ifionlyknew said:

Still miss Samantha.  

The show really suffers without her blunt appraisal of a situation. The rest of them have their heads so far up their own asses that they don't recognize how badly they are acting. No Carrie, mourning your husband does not grant you blanket permission to hurt someone that you've already caused great pain to. No Miranda, either fix your marriage or get out. And get off your kid's back, Charlotte. 

[luna1122]

I liked this episode, the writing felt tighter and funnier and a little poignant and realistic, mostly. I liked Carrie’s story the most, a little surprisingly. Yeah, it’s annoying that she’s stalking Natasha again, but in this case, I kind of got it. And, for good or bad, she felt more like Carrie again: neurotic, unsure of Big’s love, seeking out clues about how he felt about her and what he’d been doing and thinking. The scene between Natasha and Carrie was mostly gracious and kind; I appreciated that. Carrie’s not much of a stalker tho, if she didn’t even know Natasha was/is married with college aged kids. And I get why she went ‘home’ and I will welcome seeing her old familiar apartment again.

I don’t really get the podcast or why Carrie does it. She seems mostly uncomfortable with it, and she clearly doesn’t need the money, if Big can just leave his ex a million bucks and nobody really batted an eye at the AMOUNT. Not that she shouldn’t work, if she wants to, but she’s a writer. Write.

I thought Kristen looked more natural this week, and Rose possibly being non-binary is interesting enough. They handled it fairly well, I think.

I’m less happy about Miranda’s new journeys tho. Turning this, basically, into Cynthia Nixon’s real life story isn’t something I really wanted to see. So suddenly Miranda is bisexual. Okay, I get it, that happens, obviously. But revealing that she and Steve haven’t had sex in YEARS…after the affair happened, kind of due to that same reason, and they decided to give it another shot…just why? Why give them that resolution and then kill it again? I kind of hope Steve is getting some on the side at this point, cuz it seems apparent that Miranda is about to, with Che. Maybe they’ll just invite Che into  their relationship. (Tho: no, plz don’t go there). Maybe Steve’ll be okay with it and they won’t break up and they’ll have an open marriage. Who knows.

I liked most of the fashion this week. Carrie’s pink dress with that familiar studded belt, the black and white checked skirt and mary jane platforms, the cream and black coat, Charlotte’s black off the shoulderish top…we’d seen most of those in pics but I thought they looked really good in action.

[Maum]

Face it, Carrie had the affair with Big to validate her own insecurities.

She was furious that Big never wanted to marry her but proposed to Natasha. She rationalised it with the whole 'complicated girl' argument to dismiss Natasha as pretty but dim. Then when she got the chance she had the affair- then she felt she had won after all. 

 

To be honest I find Natasha a far more interesting character than Carrie- she showed strength dignity and kindness throughout. 

Would love to see Natasha spin-off.😄

[Toodleoo]

27 minutes ago, Hana Chan said:

We're going through this right now. My mother passed away just under a year ago and I've been helping my father through the grieving process. 

 

16 minutes ago, ifionlyknew said:

I have lost a spouse and there are always going to be things you didn't know about them.  Did they finish the reading of the will offscreen?  Does Carrie get everything minus the charitable gifts and Natasha's $1 million?  

After my husband died (I was 43 so even younger than Carrie) I cried every day for almost a year.  Not all day but at least once a day I would cry. I don't think we have seen Carrie process what happened. 

 

I’m so sorry for both your losses.

[ifionlyknew]

1 minute ago, Maum said:

Face it, Carrie had the affair with Big to validate her own insecurities.

She was furious that Big never wanted to marry her but proposed to Natasha. She rationalised it with the whole 'complicated girl' argument to dismiss Natasha as pretty but dim. Then when she got the chance she had the affair- then she felt she had won after all. 

I completely understood Carrie being devastated Big was marrying Natasha.  He had led her to believe he was never going to get married again and  here he was marrying someone younger (and IMO prettier).  So it's not that Big didn't want to get married, he just didn't want to marry Carrie.  So yeah she did take some satisfaction consciously or not when Big was cheating with her.  

 

[ifionlyknew]

6 minutes ago, Toodleoo said:

I’m so sorry for both your losses.

Thank you. It will be 10 years in June.  There is no right way to grief but they need to show Carrie moving on but still feeling the loss.  It's Ok to laugh and enjoy life.  With that being said am I the only one who thinks she was more grief stricken after the aborted wedding from the first movie?  I mean she  had to be spoon fed for fuck sake.

[BingeyKohan]

The constant disabling of subtitles is driving me as crazy as Carrie. I'm fine with disabling them once during a viewing experience but everything from the pre-show preview to the previously on to the episode itself to the preview for the next week's episode loads as a different file so you have to disable them every single time. 

Also: was Charlotte's immediate knowledge of what a million is after taxes a subtle callback to her 1M divorce payout she wrangled out of Bunny? (I always sort of thought she got the apartment in lieu of the million.)

Edited December 16, 2021 by BingeyKohan

[Hana Chan]

21 minutes ago, Toodleoo said:

I’m so sorry for both your losses.

Thank you. We're coming up on the first anniversary and it's really hitting home again that Mom is gone. I don't think that it's something that I'll ever get over.

[thesupremediva1]

I wish the constant praising of MPK for "bespoke writing" would stop. It's not special, it's fucking lazy.

We had to bring Natasha more pain? Carrie's stalking her? Seriously? If they were in fact so happy, she wouldn't be batting an eyelash about a gift to an ex who legit had her teeth knocked out thanks to Carrie and Big's affair. 

I am, again, horrified that they've decided to do more to destroy Miranda and Steve. The only plotline worse than "Big sorta leaves Carrie at the altar" was "Steve cheats on Miranda." They worked so hard to put the spice back in the marriage. You mean after all that, they stopped having sex again and no one cares? And now Miranda is somehow possibly into women, after stating point blank back in an early season "I'm not gay!" She laughed at Samantha when she dated a woman. I just... I can't. Please stop destroying what was good about the show piece by piece to appease some new standard the old show didn't exist to measure up to.

I still enjoy I Love Lucy. I understand how dated it is. I realize it's a time capsule. I don't hate Ricky Ricardo and I don't think less of Lucy for staying with a man who wants her home instead of out performing. I will rewatch the original SATC and enjoy it - or I would have until this mess started. Please just leave the great parts of the show alone, and DO NOT TOUCH MIRANDA AND STEVE. 

[SailorGirl]

1 hour ago, Hana Chan said:

She was the one who ruined Natasha's marriage with Big by having an affair with him (and no, I don't buy that they were "soulmates" as an excuse), then got Natasha badly injured.

Hana Chan -- this is not a personal attack against you but a comment on an all-too-familiar narrative that has got to change. 

Carrie did NOT ruin Big's marriage. The one who "ruined Natasha's marriage" was Big, by pursuing and acting on his unresolved feelings for someone else, not the other person who was not betraying vows to another person. Carrie still had feelings for Big but remember her Hubble moment -- she left it alone until Big came after her and told her it was over with Natasha, that it wasn't working, etc.

Carrie cheated on Aiden, yes, but she did NOT ruin someone else's marriage. Only the married person can do that. 

This narrative that somehow married men who cheat have no responsibility and that it is somehow always the woman's fault -- "homewrecker" -- is so misogynistic and really, really needs to change. The person who cheats is responsible if a cheating is part of why a marriage or relationship breaks up, not the person they cheat with. 

Edited December 16, 2021 by SailorGirl

[Spartan Girl]

Carrie had learned a damn thing in over 30 years, and neither has Miranda for continuing to enable her. Natasha is NOT a fucking bitch just because she has no interest in following her on social media.

Glad Natasha was so classy about it. She’s moved on and living her best life, good for her. 

Of course Big should have told Carrie about leaving the money for Natasha. Maybe he would have at some point, but nobody can predict the exact moment when they’re going to kick the bucket. And any self-aware astute person would have realized it was just guilt money from the start—Carrie is obviously neither so she automatically assumed the worst.

@SailorGirl you’re right but they doesn’t nullify Carrie’s willingness to sleep with Big in his and Natasha’s place, call her an idiot behind her back, and then expect automatic forgiveness after all of that.

Anthony is a great friend to Charlotte.

Yeah I hate that they’re apparently going to break up Steve and Miranda. But life happens and people grow apart. Hopefully it’ll be pulled off in a way that’s drama free.

Edited December 16, 2021 by Spartan Girl

[funnygirl]

No sex in years? MPK will stop at nothing to twist and change narrative of these 20+ years established characters. A more interesting story for Miranda and Steve would've been them working to get their sexual and romantic spark back in their marriage.  Lulls happen. Are we going to blame the drinking for her character-assassination and impending affair, or is the affair going to be what "cures" her? I don't care. Samantha may not be there physically, but THE Miranda Hobbes seems to be missing, too. 

In the divorce, I choose Steve. 

Edited December 16, 2021 by funnygirl

[funnygirl]

4 minutes ago, SailorGirl said:

Hana Chan -- this is not a personal attack against you but a comment on an all-too-familiar narrative that has got to change. 

Carrie did NOT ruin Big's marriage. The one who "ruined Natasha's marriage" was Big, by pursuing and acting on his unresolved feelings for someone else, not the other person who was not betraying vows to another person. Carrie still had feelings for Big but remember her Hubble moment -- she left it alone until Big came after her and told her it was over with Natasha, that it wasn't working, etc.

Carrie cheated on Aiden, yes, but she did NOT ruin someone else's marriage. Only the married person can do that. 

This narrative that somehow married men who cheat have no responsibility and that it is somehow always the woman's fault -- "homewrecker" -- is so misogynistic and really, really needs to change. The person who cheats is at fault, not the person they cheat with. 

Nah, Carrie knew Big was married and therefore is also at fault. She was a willing participant having all the facts. Had Carrie not known that Big was married, then the fault would be all on Big. Yes, he's the one who broke his vows, but Carrie chose to aid in that. 

Close your legs to married men. - Nene Leakes. 

[BingeyKohan]

8 minutes ago, thesupremediva1 said:

I still enjoy I Love Lucy. I understand how dated it is. I realize it's a time capsule. I don't hate Ricky Ricardo and I don't think less of Lucy for staying with a man who wants her home instead of out performing. I will rewatch the original SATC and enjoy it - or I would have until this mess started. Please just leave the great parts of the show alone, and DO NOT TOUCH MIRANDA AND STEVE. 

I feel like this conflates the corrective the show's creative team has professed to be interested in -- correcting the original series' limited perspective and exclusion of the diversity that makes NYC NYC -- with a story they're exploring with Miranda, which is questioning whether and why people must stay the same person they've always been. Those are 2 separate aims, narratively. Personally my only objection to the way they're portraying Miranda and Steve so far is they've turned him into a dottering doofus.

[Yeah No]

Nothing in this episode was a surprise to me.  I figured they were angling to make Miranda bicurious if not bisexual.  If they were going to do it I would have hoped it would be with her teacher, not Che.  I am just so over plotlines that make people look like they're from 70 years ago or something.  We're supposed to believe that Miranda is so repressed that she needs to wake up to wokeness and her own sexuality because you know, we were all dinosaurs giving into 19th century social pressure 20 years ago.  NOT TRUE, but that's the angle I feel like we're being sold here.  Not a fan.

I also predicted to myself last week that Rose was going to end up not wanting to be a girl after seeing how she rebelled against that feminine dress.  I'm with Anthony on this one.  Let her find herself, she's young yet to know for sure.  Until puberty I thought I should have been a boy - I was a tomboy too.  But I grew out of it with my first crush on a boy.  So just wait it out and see where she goes.  I've heard of too many cases where a teenage child was encouraged to pursue sex change operations prematurely with bad results.  Why do I think Charlotte is going to bend over to push her into being a boy just out of guilt?  

And I'm giving Carrie slack for not having much sympathy for anyone else these days.  She's been thrown for a loop with her grief and is even more self absorbed than usual.  I get that sudden fear about Big's fidelity based on little things.  Even I have found receipts in my husband's pockets that seem out of character and wondered who this man is I married 41 years ago that would eat at a certain place or buy certain things I never had any clue he would.  And I know him very well. 

I also knew that Carrie would end up going back to her old apartment.  As soon as I heard her mention to Stannie that she still had it in the previous episode I knew that was coming.  

And yes to it not having to be all sackcloth and ashes when someone is in grief.  When my father died last year I was still capable of enjoying a joke, shopping online and looking normal on the outside.  Sometimes what's going on inside is not that apparent.  I still think Carrie is going to reach a moment where she falls apart for a while.  I think she's still in the shock/denial phase.  It can last a while.

So everything I thought would happen is already happening, maybe sooner than I thought it would.  Not sure I'm loving it, though.

[ifionlyknew]

10 minutes ago, SailorGirl said:

Carrie did NOT ruin Big's marriage. The one who "ruined Natasha's marriage" was Big, by pursuing and acting on his unresolved feelings for someone else, not the other person who was not betraying vows to another person.

I'm not proud of this but my aforementioned dead husband was married when I met him.  His wife called me telling me to stay away from her husband. I told her her problem was with her husband not me.  

Big was the one at fault for cheating on Natasha.  Carrie made very poor choices when choosing to have an affair with him.  

[Yeah No]

7 minutes ago, BingeyKohan said:

I feel like this conflates the corrective the show's creative team has professed to be interested in -- correcting the original series' limited perspective and exclusion of the diversity that makes NYC NYC -- with a story they're exploring with Miranda, which is questioning whether and why people must stay the same person they've always been. Those are 2 separate aims, narratively. Personally my only objection to the way they're portraying Miranda and Steve so far is they've turned him into a dottering doofus.

Correcting the original series' exclusionary oversights by hitting the audience over the head with a 100 pound weight is not the way to do that, IMHO, and that's what I think is happening here.  I think it should feel like it's happening organically or it is just too much for the audience to believe or want.  In this case it feels like it's being done as a grand gesture to show the audience how progressive the producers and writers have become, when in reality it only shows how guilt ridden and full of shit they are.  I never thought MPK or Darren Starr knew what NYC was really all about.  It seemed to me like they were in this little rich white male cocoon and writing the city from that perspective, which skewed elitist and exclusionary on more fronts than just race, although that was part of it.  Case in point was the aspiring way they treated Samantha's "I don't do borough" and then depicting borough people to be rough cut caricatures straight out of a sitcom.  I'm originally from the Bronx so that didn't get past me.  

[BingeyKohan]

6 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

I never thought MPK or Darren Starr knew what NYC was really all about.  It seemed to me like they were in this little rich white male cocoon and writing the city from that perspective, which skewed elitist and exclusionary on more fronts than just race, although that was part of it.  Case in point was the aspiring way they treated Samantha's "I don't do borough" and then depicting borough people to be rough cut caricatures straight out of a sitcom.  I'm originally from the Bronx so that didn't get past me.  

I agree with this but the same can be said of a lot of white filmmakers of the time - I love You've Got Mail but I cringe when Meg Ryan's bookstore employee wails that she'll have to move to Brooklyn if the shop closes. I never really bought that Carrie would live on the Upper East Side in the first place but for some reason SATC's creators couldn't imagine these women below the 70s, at least in the beginning.

[Yeah No]

31 minutes ago, thesupremediva1 said:

I am, again, horrified that they've decided to do more to destroy Miranda and Steve. The only plotline worse than "Big sorta leaves Carrie at the altar" was "Steve cheats on Miranda." They worked so hard to put the spice back in the marriage. You mean after all that, they stopped having sex again and no one cares? And now Miranda is somehow possibly into women, after stating point blank back in an early season "I'm not gay!" She laughed at Samantha when she dated a woman. I just... I can't. Please stop destroying what was good about the show piece by piece to appease some new standard the old show didn't exist to measure up to.

What gets me is this series is being written like these women haven't talked to each other or grown as people since the last movie a decade ago.  Suddenly we're supposed to believe that Miranda would just lull herself into a sexually comatose state for several years and not think or talk about it or better yet, want to resolve it with him?  It's just not consistent with her character or any of them to shut off to sex and let it go for all that time, then suddenly wake up 10 years later realizing they might be bisexual and headed for infidelity.

[Hana Chan]

25 minutes ago, SailorGirl said:

Hana Chan -- this is not a personal attack against you but a comment on an all-too-familiar narrative that has got to change. 

Carrie did NOT ruin Big's marriage. The one who "ruined Natasha's marriage" was Big, by pursuing and acting on his unresolved feelings for someone else, not the other person who was not betraying vows to another person. Carrie still had feelings for Big but remember her Hubble moment -- she left it alone until Big came after her and told her it was over with Natasha, that it wasn't working, etc.

Carrie cheated on Aiden, yes, but she did NOT ruin someone else's marriage. Only the married person can do that. 

This narrative that somehow married men who cheat have no responsibility and that it is somehow always the woman's fault -- "homewrecker" -- is so misogynistic and really, really needs to change. The person who cheats is responsible if a cheating is part of why a marriage or relationship breaks up, not the person they cheat with. 

I'm afraid that I'm going to have to disagree with you here. Yes, Big was the one who cheated on his wife, but Carrie knew that he was married. It wasn't as if they had just met and started a relationship with Carrie having no knowledge about his wife. Carrie knew that he was married. She was an equal partner in hurting Natasha. I'm not letting Big off on this, but Carrie had an affair with a married man and didn't care about hurting his wife.

Now I've been in a situation where I learned after the fact that a man that I was dating was actually married. I was mortified when I'd found out about his wife because I would never have gotten involved with him had I known he was married. I actually went out of my way to apologize to her and assured her that our relationship had not gotten intimate yet.

Carrie does not deserve all the blame for the affair, but she was hardly an unwitting partner and deserves some of the blame for the mess that it had left behind. She is as much at fault as Big. And let's not forget that Carrie was in a committed relationship Aiden at the time, so besides Big cheating on his wife, Carrie was cheating on her own partner. 

[BingeyKohan]

To change the subject to finances, which feels a bit safer than any other thread -- 1) if Big left Natasha a million, how much does Carrie now have? I guess we already knew she was set for life (I always identified with her much more when she still had vestiges of the woman whose chose buying Vogue over buying dinner because it 'nourished her more.' 2) SURELY Carrie has paid Charlotte back for the downpayment on her apartment but I sort of feel like Carrie should put Rose and Lily through school with her windfall to show her eternal gratitude?? (I mean, not really, Charlotte and Harry don't need it, esp never having had a mortgage, but still!)

 

 

[Yeah No]

6 minutes ago, BingeyKohan said:

I agree with this but the same can be said of a lot of white filmmakers of the time - I love You've Got Mail but I cringe when Meg Ryan's bookstore employee wails that she'll have to move to Brooklyn if the shop closes. I never really bought that Carrie would live on the Upper East Side in the first place but for some reason SATC's creators couldn't imagine these women below the 70s, at least in the beginning.

Oh I absolutely agree, but I didn't pay much attention to movies and pretty much figured that the people making them were possibly not New Yorkers and didn't get the place, but I absolutely expected the people making SATC to depict a more realistic version of NYC.  On top of that, some NY-ers still hold the show partially responsible for the regentrification that took place in NY in the past 2 decades, which has in many ways helped to erase some of the endearing NY culture that existed at the time of the show,  which made people want to come to NYC.  Add the pandemic to that, and just like that...

I never thought Carrie lived on the UES given that her house looked sooooo Greenwich Village to me.  And it was.

[Yeah No]

1 hour ago, BingeyKohan said:

I didn't get Carrie acting like the upper west side was exotic to her - her old apartment is supposed to be on the Upper East.

This reminds me of the episode of "Seinfeld" when Kramer gets lost on the subway and finds himself on 1st Avenue and 1st Street.  He walks around like he's a stranger in a strange land and calls Jerry to tell him he thinks he's found the nexus of the universe, LOL.

Truthfully, different sections of Manhattan can feel alien to people that live in other sections because they don't normally go there, plus the culture can be very different even though they're technically not that far apart.  The UES and UWS are famously different culturally.  We always saw the UES as the uber-rich old money independently wealthy types while the UWS was made up more of the working moneyed people that commute every day on the subway.  It's still somewhat true but probably not as much these days.  I always considered myself more of an Upper West Side type.  Maybe because I was technically born there.  Well WAY upper west, in Washington Hts. at Columbia Presbyterian.

[BingeyKohan]

2 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

Truthfully, different sections of Manhattan can feel alien to people that live in other sections because they don't normally go there, plus the culture can be very different even though they're technically not that far apart.  The UES and UWS are famously different culturally.  We always saw the UES as the uber-rich old money independently wealthy types while the UWS was made up more of the working moneyed people that commute every day on the subway.  It's still somewhat true but probably not as much these days.  I always considered myself more of an Upper West Side type.  Maybe because I was technically born there.  Well WAY upper west, in Washington Hts. at Columbia Presbyterian.

yeah, ultimately I decided that's what they were going for with that bit (that an upper east sider would never deign to cross the park - tho Miranda's original apartment was on the upper west, I thought) ... but I thought they could have hit it a little harder to make it land, especially since, as you note in a different post, it's easy to assume Carrie's old apartment was supposed to be located downtown where the actual exteriors are filmed, which would make her bewilderment at the UWS register even more.

[RedDelicious]

1 hour ago, SailorGirl said:

The person who cheats is responsible if a cheating is part of why a marriage or relationship breaks up, not the person they cheat with. 

I do not agree with this. Both parties are equally responsible. Just because a married man is willing to cheat doesn't mean he is fair game to a woman looking to get hers. She's every bit as responsible for engaging.

1 hour ago, funnygirl said:

Close your legs to married men. - Nene Leakes. 

YES!!!! 

Edited December 16, 2021 by RedDelicious

[RedDelicious]

1 hour ago, BingeyKohan said:

I love You've Got Mail but I cringe when Meg Ryan's bookstore employee wails that she'll have to move to Brooklyn if the shop closes.

They even alluded to this mindset in the first movie when Charlotte tries to reassure Miranda about how "great" Brooklyn is.

Carrie Bradshaw: New York Magazine says Brooklyn is the new Manhattan.

Miranda Hobbes: Yes, but whoever wrote that lives in Brooklyn.

IMDB attributes this quote to Carrie but it was Charlotte who said it.

ETA: and I don't believe there was a "yes but". It annoys me when people inject their own parlance into tv/movie quotes. 

Edited December 16, 2021 by RedDelicious

[Evie]

I liked Steve and Miranda together, but if they want to break them up, fine. I just hate that they are turning Miranda into Cynthia Nixon. I also hate that they are making her an alcoholic. 

I don't like Che. They are too pushy. 

I liked Charolotte's conversation with Anthony.

Carrie was Carrie. Natasha was classy. 

Edited December 17, 2021 by Evie

[funnygirl]

What does feeling like a girl even mean? There is no one way to be a girl, that's all I'm saying. 

Natasha was so twenty years ago. Good to see Bridget, she looks great, but continued animosity towards her after all this time seems misplaced. For a new series that is preaching "growth" ad nauseam, where's the growth in that? I don't blame her for blocking Carrie. 

Big's not just vaccinated, he was boosted! (I saw three lines filled out on the card)

Edited December 16, 2021 by funnygirl

[Yogisbooboo64]

24 minutes ago, Evie said:

I don't like Che. She's too pushy. 

Prefuckingcisely!  Damn, again tone it down a notch.

[RedDelicious]

8 hours ago, Toodleoo said:

Loved Anthony’s advice to Charlotte regarding Rose. Be supportive and let her cook a little longer. There’s all kinds of input from peers and social media for kids that age; maybe the gender issue is real for her or maybe she’s working through some questions due to external input.

This is interesting an interesting topic and kind of makes me sad thinking about my/our childhood. Kids can never just be. When my sister was in high school in the 80s, she had a Roxette haircut and wanted to dress like Watts from Some Kind of Wonderful. She was on the cheerleading squad but also in the visual arts program. I remember an adult approaching her in a department store and asking her what gender she was. She's straight and also super creative AND athletic. Kids need a little room to stretch and grow on their terms, and not be labeled or categorized depending on societal norms at the time. I'd say this is the case for both Rose and Sis Apple.

[tennisgurl]

I pretty much called Miranda exploring having an interest in women from the second the show was announced, they are basically just giving her Cynthia's real life story. I don't really like it, it makes me raise an eyebrow when shows feel like any LGBTQ actor can only play LGBTQ characters in a cheap attempt to prove their progressiveness, unless the actor is really into telling that story (and maybe Cynthia is) and it comes totally out of nowhere. Remember that episode where Miranda's co-worker assumes she's a lesbian and sets her up with a woman? Its not like people never realize later on that they're queer, but this just feels so cheap. Its really too bad that Sam is gone, as someone who actually did date a woman in the original series, if they wanted to give one of the women a female love interest, she was the obvious choice. 

Samantha was never my favorite character, but this show desperately needs her saucy brand of brutal honestly. Carrie, Miranda, and Charlotte are all so up their own asses they cant even have real conversations with each other about very real issues, like Carrie's grief and Miranda's dead sparks marriage and drinking. She might not have the best advice, but she would at least get it out in the air to be discussed. 

In continuing the shows theme of "happy endings are for chumps" it looks like Steve and Miranda are on their way out too. I guess we should be happy that Steve didn't have to drop dead for Miranda to get her groove back. Thank God he didn't ask for a Peloton for his last birthday!  It really sucks, I always liked Steve and Miranda, I thought that Steve cheating in the first movie was ridiculously out of character, but I liked how they dealt with losing their spark and finding it again. I guess now that was just a big waste of time, which is always what you want from your sequel series. Feeling like the original series turned out to be utterly pointless. 

I have zero interest in watching Carrie try to find love so soon after Big's death. She seems pretty chipper for a woman's who's husband of two decades just died, but they could say that she's still in denial from a character perspective, but I think from a narrative perspective, they just don't want to committ to dealing with the ramifications of Carrie losing her husband, they want her to be single and ready to mingle and make bad sex puns as soon as possible. 

Natasha really is a saint, putting up with Carrie bugging her due to her own insecurities after so many years of not seeing each other. I figured right away that Big left Natasha money because she wanted to apologize for cheating on her, Carrie thinking that it means Big was cheating on her or still in love with Natasha says more about herself then Big or Natasha. I am glad she's thriving at least, not everyone is retroactively getting their happy endings ruined. As for who was at fault for the affair, I would say Big and Carrie are about equal. Big is the one who cheated, he's the one who ruined his marriage, but Carrie willingly slept with a married man, which is never alright.

Edited December 16, 2021 by tennisgurl

[bichonblitz]

4 hours ago, BingeyKohan said:

I never really bought that Carrie would live on the Upper East Side in the first place but for some reason SATC's creators couldn't imagine these women below the 70s, at least in the beginning.

Samantha lived below the 70's. I believe she live in SoHo or the Meatpacking district. 

On a superficial note:

Carrie's hair is gorgeous. 

Kristin Davis' plastic surgery has settled and she looks amazing, exactly like she did in the original. 

Miranda looks so frumpy. The wardrobe choices for her are a fail. 

Also, when did Charlotte ever have an issue with Stannie? I don't remember that at all. 

[PRgal]

59 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

I pretty much called Miranda exploring having an interest in women from the second the show was announced, they are basically just giving her Cynthia's real life story. I don't really like it, it makes me raise an eyebrow when shows feel like any LGBTQ actor can only play LGBTQ characters in a cheap attempt to prove their progressiveness, unless the actor is really into telling that story (and maybe Cynthia is) and it comes totally out of nowhere. Remember that episode where Miranda's co-worker assumes she's a lesbian and sets her up with a woman and Miranda flirts with being a "power lesbian" because she likes the woman she was set up with and her circle of lesbian friends, but she realizes that she's straight after actually kissing the woman? Its not like people never realize later on that they're queer, but this just feels so cheap. Its really too bad that Sam is gone, as someone who actually did date a woman in the original series, if they wanted to give one of the women a female love interest, she was the obvious choice. 

Samantha was never my favorite character, but this show desperately needs her saucy brand of brutal honestly. Carrie, Miranda, and Charlotte are all so up their own asses they cant even have real conversations with each other about very real issues, like Carrie's grief and Miranda's dead sparks marriage and drinking. She might not have the best advice, but she would at least get it out in the air to be discussed. 

In continuing the shows theme of "happy endings are for chumps" it looks like Steve and Miranda are on their way out too. I guess we should be happy that Steve didn't have to drop dead for Miranda to get her groove back. Thank God he didn't ask for a Peloton for his last birthday!  It really sucks, I always liked Steve and Miranda, I thought that Steve cheating in the first movie was ridiculously out of character, but I liked how they dealt with losing their spark and finding it again. I guess now that was just a big waste of time, which is always what you want from your sequel series. Feeling like the original series turned out to be utterly pointless. 

I have zero interest in watching Carrie try to find love so soon after Big's death. She seems pretty chipper for a woman's who's husband of two decades just died, but they could say that she's still in denial from a character perspective, but I think from a narrative perspective, they just don't want to committ to dealing with the ramifications of Carrie losing her husband, they want her to be single and ready to mingle and make bad sex puns as soon as possible. 

Natasha really is a saint, putting up with Carrie bugging her due to her own insecurities after so many years of not seeing each other. I figured right away that Big left Natasha money because she wanted to apologize for cheating on her, Carrie thinking that it means Big was cheating on her or still in love with Natasha says more about herself then Big or Natasha. I am glad she's thriving at least, not everyone is retroactively getting their happy endings ruined. As for who was at fault for the affair, I would say Big and Carrie are about equal. Big is the one who cheated, he's the one who ruined his marriage, but Carrie willingly slept with a married man, which is never alright.

Except I wouldn't call Che a lesbian.  They're non-binary (so they don't identify as female OR male).  But I can't believe they went there with Miranda.  I'm not too happy about it.  I guess Rose is experimenting with being non-binary as well?  Though she (they?) didn't specifically say this episode.  I wonder if the $1M for Natasha was related to the son's health issues.  And perhaps tuition.  Trinity ain't cheap.

[RedDelicious]

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

Remember that episode where Miranda's co-worker assumes she's a lesbian and sets her up with a woman and Miranda flirts with being a "power lesbian" because she likes the woman she was set up with and her circle of lesbian friends, but she realizes that she's straight after actually kissing the woman?

Charlotte was the one who got swept up with the power lesbian art collectors in Season 2 😊 Miranda got set up with a lesbian date at the firm softball game in Season 1 ⚾

Charlotte also took on drag in Season 3!

In retrospect, for all of her WASPiness, they gave Charlotte some progressive storylines. ETA: In the end the power lesbians basically told Charlotte "you can't sit with us" except the actual words used were much more colorful.

Edited December 16, 2021 by RedDelicious

[Keywestclubkid]

Carrie needs to be kicked off a cliff. Natasha doesn’t owe you a damn thing. Good God 

[LegalParrot81]

4 minutes ago, Keywestclubkid said:

Carrie needs to be kicked off a cliff. Natasha doesn’t owe you a damn thing. Good God 

Carrie has always had an unrealistic sense of entitlement.  Even when Natasha caught her and Big together back in the day, somehow, Carrie was the victim, screw that fact that she'd been sleeping with Natasha's husband.

[Hana Chan]

5 minutes ago, LegalParrot81 said:

Carrie has always had an unrealistic sense of entitlement.  Even when Natasha caught her and Big together back in the day, somehow, Carrie was the victim, screw that fact that she'd been sleeping with Natasha's husband.

It's kind of telling that one of Carrie's first instincts were that Big was cheating on her with Natasha. Given that he'd cheated on Natasha with his ex, it's understandable why Carrie might think that he was reverting back to form.

I get tired of the idea that cheating is okay when you're in love and the spouse doesn't deserve the one that you want. Carrie showed zero regard for Natasha, insulting her openly and chasing after her husband (while she was supposed to be in a relationship with Aiden at the time). She was no victim. Just a selfish, immature woman who despite being in her 50s, still hasn't grown up yet.

[bichonblitz]

I kept waiting for the bomb to be dropped that Big was the daddy of one of Natasha's boys and that's why he left her the million$$$. I guess they aren't going there. 

[Baltimore Betty]

2 hours ago, Yogisbooboo64 said:

Prefuckingcisely!  Damn, again tone it down a notch.

Her telling Carrie that she had to "step up her pussy," was stupid, it wasn't Carrie's podcast, why did she have to change?  Che should not have her on anymore if Carrie doesn't want to talk openly about public diddling or other base, immature sex topics, she should have told Che to be a bit more cerebral and then exited the elevator.  

[PRgal]

13 minutes ago, Baltimore Betty said:

Her telling Carrie that she had to "step up her pussy," was stupid, it wasn't Carrie's podcast, why did she have to change?  Che should not have her on anymore if Carrie doesn't want to talk openly about public diddling or other base, immature sex topics, she should have told Che to be a bit more cerebral and then exited the elevator.  

Exactly.  Or Che should have kicked her off (like what happened to ME earlier this year...more or less).  Carrie doesn't need the money.  I wonder if Che was just taking advantage of Carrie because she had the column and book.  It makes the show more...legit, you know?  Because she's more "serious." 

[qtpye]

7 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Carrie had learned a damn thing in over 30 years, and neither has Miranda for continuing to enable her. Natasha is NOT a fucking bitch just because she has no interest in following her on social media.

Glad Natasha was so classy about it. She’s moved on and living her best life, good for her. 

Of course Big should have told Carrie about leaving the money for Natasha. Maybe he would have at some point, but nobody can predict the exact moment when they’re going to kick the bucket. And any self-aware astute person would have realized it was just guilt money from the start—Carrie is obviously neither so she automatically assumed the worst.

@SailorGirl you’re right but they doesn’t nullify Carrie’s willingness to sleep with Big in his and Natasha’s place, call her an idiot behind her back, and then expect automatic forgiveness after all of that.

Anthony is a great friend to Charlotte.

Yeah I hate that they’re apparently going to break up Steve and Miranda. But life happens and people grow apart. Hopefully it’ll be pulled off in a way that’s drama free.

 

1 hour ago, Keywestclubkid said:

Carrie needs to be kicked off a cliff. Natasha doesn’t owe you a damn thing. Good God 

 

1 hour ago, LegalParrot81 said:

Carrie has always had an unrealistic sense of entitlement.  Even when Natasha caught her and Big together back in the day, somehow, Carrie was the victim, screw that fact that she'd been sleeping with Natasha's husband.

 

1 hour ago, Hana Chan said:

It's kind of telling that one of Carrie's first instincts were that Big was cheating on her with Natasha. Given that he'd cheated on Natasha with his ex, it's understandable why Carrie might think that he was reverting back to form.

I get tired of the idea that cheating is okay when you're in love and the spouse doesn't deserve the one that you want. Carrie showed zero regard for Natasha, insulting her openly and chasing after her husband (while she was supposed to be in a relationship with Aiden at the time). She was no victim. Just a selfish, immature woman who despite being in her 50s, still hasn't grown up yet.

Carrie is a drama queen.

She is now an incredibly wealthy widowed woman without kids and pets. Carrie is healthy enough that she can walk all over Manhattan in giant chunky heeled platforms (though not the stilettos of her youth).

A part of her wanted there to be some truth in Big having feelings or an affair so she could again be the center of everyone's world with her drama.

We all knew that Big gave Natasha that piddling (to him) sum of money to make up for his assholery. 

Instead, we just got confirmation that Carrie has always been the love of his life and not just a wife he takes care of.

Even on the toilet, Natasha is classier than Carrie.

 

[Chit Chat]

2 hours ago, Hana Chan said:

It's kind of telling that one of Carrie's first instincts were that Big was cheating on her with Natasha. Given that he'd cheated on Natasha with his ex, it's understandable why Carrie might think that he was reverting back to form.

I'm glad that she had to squirm for a while thinking that Big had once again cheated.  Karma's a bitch, isn't it, Carrie!  

[luna1122]

I hate both Carrie’s and Miranda's eyewear. Charlotte's are good.