S01.E03: Echoes

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

After escaping a new threat, Clint and Kate join forces against an expanding criminal conspiracy.

Dropping Wednesday, December 1, 2021.

[AnimeMania]

A much better episode than the first two, probably because it had so much humor.

I still don't like Kate, but I liked her fight scene, she was totally punishing Kazi.

Aren't they in New York around Christmas time, maybe there should be a little snow, or at least cold. People definitely shouldn't be hanging out of a car window when your driving 35 miles an hour without suffering a little frostbite.

Never threaten Ronin with Ronin's sword. Now Jack is on the Shady List.

[vb68]

What a fun episode. I really enjoyed that.

It went by so fast. Renner and Steinfeld play off each other very well.

[paigow]

Title: Echoes

[SnarkShark]

Lol, to using the cheesiest possible Sammy Davis Jr. song.  

About on par for me with Ep1 (which I liked much more than most people, apparently).  Far better than Ep2, with its silly distracting LARPer subplot.  This one was a nice focused episode. 

1 hour ago, AnimeMania said:

Aren't they in New York around Christmas time, maybe there should be a little snow, or at least cold.

Cold, yes.  Snow?  If you think so, you've probably never been in Manhattan in December.  Snow is mid-January. Maybe as late as February. You might get a dusting in December, but a full snowfall then is the exception not the rule.  But sure.  It'll be reasonably cold. 

[SnarkShark]

1 hour ago, AnimeMania said:

still don't like Kate,

To each their own.  But I'm okay with her being rich, a bit privileged, but aware of it and having stated motives to be a hero, even if in a way that's kind of self-important sounding. 

[johntfs]

Pym arrow!  That is all for now.

[SnarkShark]

I will say, they barely tried to hide who "Uncle" is.  That one shot not seeing above his legs made it clear that they were intentionally PHYSICALLY hiding him.  But ironically that kind of stripped bare who he HAS to be. 

[cambridgeguy]

Is the NYC school system so indifferent that they'd stick a deaf girl in a regular class with no accommodation whatsoever?  That's one way to guarantee someone growing up feeling isolated and resentful.

[tv echo]

We got the Kate Bishop origin story in the first episode. Now we're getting part of the Maya Lopez origin story....

Some real drama and tension in this episode. Interesting that Clint is saying Ronin was killed by Black Widow.

Amazing archery shot by Clint to cut Kate's bonds! Hawkeye is a badass.

Car chase! Trick arrows! Purple smoke arrow! I thought the Pym arrow was going to cause something to shrink. But, no. Even better, it turned into a giant arrow.

Kate helping Clint talk to his little son Nate on the phone was touching.

Who's "Uncle"? The mysterious Big Bad.

Maya is not coming across as very likeable right now. I understand why we should be sympathetic to her grudge against Ronin, who killed her father. Also, I hope that Alaqua Cox gets to display more than one expression (angry disgruntlement) in future episodes.

Interesting that no one knows the real identity of Ronin, except Clint, Natasha and Rhodey.

Jack is being pushed as the bad guy so hard in this episode that it's increasingly clear that he won't be the bad guy.

Edited December 2, 2021 by tv echo

[Cobalt Stargazer]

6 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

Is the NYC school system so indifferent that they'd stick a deaf girl in a regular class with no accommodation whatsoever?  That's one way to guarantee someone growing up feeling isolated and resentful.

I don't know about indifferent. After Maya was shown in class, she told her father through sign language that she thought they'd be able to afford to place her in a school for deaf children, and he signed back that they couldn't. You would think there'd at least be a program she'd be part of that would accommodate her a bit more, but that's probably just a plot contrivance. She wasn't even willing to talk to Kazi with the track suit guys in the room, when they were cleaning out the warehouse in preparation to leave, but he told her that 'none of these idiots have learned ASL in the last twenty four hours.' He must have either misunderstood the situation or underestimated Maya, because he seemed really taken aback by her putting her hand around Kate's throat like that.

I also thought it was a really nice touch that Clint said Black Widow killed Ronin, because she kind of did. Given how little attention Natasha's death has been given, any mention of her in a positive sense is welcome. And even that he told Kate he was never a role model, both since at this point it's only the bad stuff he remembers, and that Kate doesn't even consider the bad stuff when they're talking. That even his time as a SHIELD agent left a blood trail, just going by him being involved in Natasha's exit strategy from the Red Room. He hasn't even acknowledged that he was Ronin yet, though now that Maya is having him checked out, that will probably come to light just in time for

 

Yelena to show up. I wonder if she and Maya will have to fight it out to see who gets to kill him.

Edited December 1, 2021 by Cobalt Stargazer

[AnimeMania]

5 hours ago, SnarkShark said:

Cold, yes.  Snow?  If you think so, you've probably never been in Manhattan in December.  Snow is mid-January. Maybe as late as February. You might get a dusting in December, but a full snowfall then is the exception not the rule.  But sure.  It'll be reasonably cold. 

If this is an imitation of some cheesy Hallmark Holiday movie, we need a "Christmas Miracle", snow.

[Fool to cry]

Immediate two thoughts:

Pym arrow!

Maya's "uncle" is definitely Wilson Fisk, right?

[FnkyChkn34]

2 hours ago, tv echo said:

Some real drama and tension in this episode. Interesting that Clint is saying Ronin was killed by Black Widow.

He basically was.  Natasha found Clint and pulled him back into the Avengers fold, thus ending Ronin.  It also would have been fair for Clint to say that he killed Ronin, but then everyone would have too many questions for him.  

8 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

Aren't they in New York around Christmas time, maybe there should be a little snow, or at least cold. People definitely shouldn't be hanging out of a car window when your driving 35 miles an hour without suffering a little frostbite.

There was a lot of snow in Episode 2, when Clint was walking through Central Park to get to the LARPers.

[calliope1975]

I'm having so much fun with this show. I had a big dorky smile on my face during the car chase scene. I like that the Track Suit Mafia have a moving company front. I'm intrigued by Maya, and I'm thrilled to see how Deafness and hard of hearing is being portrayed. My mom has hearing aids due to age and she hates wearing them and says everything sounds tinny, so I'm constantly asking her to turn things down. I need to be more sympathetic and accommodating. Nice to see Zahn McClarnon, even if only for a few scenes. I also appreciate how it showed Maya beginning her training as a kid like they did with Kate. You're not just born with those skills. Anyhoo, after the angst of WandaVision and the timeywimey all universes may be over in Loki, both of which I really liked cuz I'm easy like that, it's nice to have a smaller storyline with some humor and action for the holidays. 

[AzureOwl]

6 hours ago, SnarkShark said:

I will say, they barely tried to hide who "Uncle" is.  That one shot not seeing above his legs made it clear that they were intentionally PHYSICALLY hiding him.  But ironically that kind of stripped bare who he HAS to be. 

 

2 hours ago, Fool to cry said:

Immediate two thoughts:

Pym arrow!

Maya's "uncle" is definitely Wilson Fisk, right?

I’m like 90% sure that was D'onofrio’s voice in the flashback. 

[paigow]

2 hours ago, Fool to cry said:

Immediate two thoughts:

Pym arrow!

Maya's "uncle" is definitely Wilson Fisk, right?

Fisk would never pick up a kid from school that was not his.

[thuganomics85]

Zahn McClarnon's in the MCU!  Sure, it was only for a couple of scenes as the father character whose death will propel his child to go down the villain path, but I'll take it!  As usual, he certainly made the most of his screen time.

I guess it's nice that Tony isn't the only Avenger now whose actions create the villains that they have to deal with.  Because thanks to Clint's little Ronin phase, he has made an enemy of this Maya woman, who is currently leading the Tracksuit Mafia and is really determined to avenge her father.  Seems like no one suspects it's none other than Clint himself, so I wonder what will happen once that is discovered.

Of course, it sounds like Maya and the Tracksuit Mafia are actually part of an even bigger criminal syndicate, led by her "Uncle."  Which; judging from the brief shot of his arm, cufflink, and voice in the flashback; I'm about 99.999% sure who that is going to be and that should be a sight to behold if it's true!

Heh, the abandoned building was actually a former K.B. Toys!  And it looked like one of the gang members was actually taking some of the leftover stuff animals with him.  That Tracksuit Mafia!  So relatable!

The chase sequences was fun: especially getting to see all of the various trick arrows Clint had in case of emergencies.  Kate is definitely showing herself to be an effective archer under pressure as well.

The scene with Kate translating what Clint's son was saying to him (while he was partially deaf) was a nice moment.  Jeremy Renner and Hailee Steinfeld really are great together.

Jack pops back up at the end, but I'm still wondering if he's going to be the biggest threat here.

[tennisgurl]

I am definitely calling it, Maya's "uncle" is the Kingpin, he even looked a little bit like Fisk when we saw a glimpse of him, plus we caught a glimpse of a very distinct cufflink. I like the backstory with Maya and her dad, it gives her a sympathetic motivation while still establishing her as a threat. I really like how she is thematically connected so much to Clint, as a reminder of the very morally dubious nature of what he did as Ronin, as the people he killed might have been criminals but they were still people, and through his recent hearing loss. She is also connected to Kate, being strongly motivated by losing her beloved father to violence. 

Jeremy Renner and Hailee Steinfeld continue to play off each other really well, both in funny scenes, like when they were shooting increasingly ridiculous trick arrows at the Tracksuit Mafia, and in more serious ones, like when Kate was helping Clint talk to his son over the phone. They have a really natural rapport and you can already see Clint warming up to Kate, even if he still doesn't want her to follow in his footsteps. I also really like how they let you hear things from both Clint and Maya's perspectives, it was a really affective way to get into their heads, especially during fight sequences. I think it really added to the chase sequence especially, as Kate and Clint are trying to communicate but cant quite get it. Seeing all of the trick arrows was rally fun, looks like Hank is being a bit more open with sharing these days. 

I continue to really enjoy the Tracksuit Mafia goons, they can be somewhat of a threat but are also quite funny. I especially loved when Kate was giving the one goon some legit romantic advice. "Brightside, you don't have to see Imagine Dragons." "I LOVE Imagine Dragons." Truly the most relatable mobsters. 

I cant imagine Maya's dad actually knows this, but he was spot on about dragons existing in the MCU, they totally do. Some of them live in pocket dimensions with tons of cute critters from Chinese mythology and guard evil entities! It never cases to amuse me that you have these rather street level adventures with gangsters and Christmas, while in the background all of these gods and Lovecraftian monsters and magical super creatures are all just right around the corner doing their own thing. I actually really like how relatively low key all of this is (for now) especially compared to the other MCU Disney shows. No magic, no alternate dimensions, no international terrorism, its just street level criminals fighting a rich girl with a bow, arrow, and spunk and a guy who also gets by on the same three things but with a lot more training who just wants to go home for Christmas but feels like he has to try and clean up his messes. Its feels more light hearted and grounded, its a nice change, as much as I always love the high concept stuff. 

I appreciate how much Clint still thinks about Natasha and how much he still clearly misses her. Hopefully he and Yelena clear things up quickly, they could actually really bond over missing her and talking about different parts of her life.

Edited December 1, 2021 by tennisgurl

[jmonique]

I really liked and appreciated how Clint held his own and you could see his SHIELD training ... until he got his bow and arrow and just started mowing down people, really proving why out of all the SHIELD agents, he was *Avenger*-level, along with Nat, a Black Widow.

[wlk68]

I feel like Clint should've been way better at hand to hand in his fight w/ Maya. He was getting his ass kicked until he got a hold of his bow. He fought the Black Widow in Civil War and she accused him of pulling his punches. But then, he's not getting any younger. Lotta mileage there. :)  

Loved the car chase and all the trick arrows. The "walk the dog" conversation between Kate and Clint in subway car was funny.

Great conversation between Clint and Kate in the diner. Clint is self aware enough to know that what he does/did is not admirable. That he is not a role model.  

Sweet scene where Kate acted as interpreter for Clint's phone call w/ Nate. 

Looking forward to Clint and Jack meeting each other. In the comics they have history. I wonder if it will be the same here. 

Edited December 1, 2021 by wlk68

[jmonique]

49 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

I continue to really enjoy the Tracksuit Mafia goons, they can be somewhat of a threat but are also quite funny. I especially loved when Kate was giving the one goon some legit romantic advice. "Brightside, you don't have to see Imagine Dragons." "I LOVE Imagine Dragons." Truly the most relatable mobsters. 

I liked Kate calling the goon on the tickets really being a gift for himself.

44 minutes ago, wlk68 said:

I feel like Clint should've been way better at hand to hand in his fight w/ Maya. He was getting his ass kicked until he got a hold of his bow. He fought the Black Widow in Civil War and she accused him of pulling his punches. But then, he's not getting any younger. Lotta mileage there. :)  

The Ronin stuff seems to have thrown Clint somewhat. Like he's working at not hurting people.

[Kel Varnsen]

9 hours ago, johntfs said:

Pym arrow!  That is all for now.

That was a highlight for me. Although it does go back to my comment from the first episode, in that you can get Hank Pym to make you a giant arrow, but you can't get someone to make you hearing aids that are better than ones I can buy from Costco (like smaller or more durable).

[AnimeMania]

So the subway conversation was contrived since Kate could have just as easily sat on the other side of Clint and had a normal conversation.

[Kel Varnsen]

6 minutes ago, AnimeMania said:

So the subway conversation was contrived since Kate could have just as easily sat on the other side of Clint and had a normal conversation.

Is that how Clint's hearing loss works? If it wasn't couldn't he have just held the phone up to his good ear to hear his son?

[AnimeMania]

2 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

9 minutes ago, AnimeMania said:

So the subway conversation was contrived since Kate could have just as easily sat on the other side of Clint and had a normal conversation.

Is that how Clint's hearing loss works? If it wasn't couldn't he have just held the phone up to his good ear to hear his son?

Or get two hearing aids unless one ear he can't hear anything out of, maybe I was wrong about the subway conversation.

[FnkyChkn34]

He definitely wears the hearing aid in his left ear (the viewer's right when looking at him).  I think if Kate had sat on the other side of him on the train, she definitely would have been talking into his "bad" ear.  What I can't tell, however, is if he has a hearing aid in his right ear and if he's also hard of hearing in that ear, why doesn't he?  They certainly are portraying him as hard of hearing in both ears.

[paigow]

Fisk would have better minions than these Bros... Hard to believe he could be a super crime boss with these idiots on the payroll

[Sakura12]

That episode went by fast. Clint and Kate work well together. It's nice that he thinks she is a good archer. 

And yes Clint you are a hero to some that don't know about everything you did. They only see the good stuff. 

I think Clint may be totally deaf in one ear and needs a hearing aid for the other. Maya broke his hearing aid so he wouldn't have been able to hear Kate no matter what side she sat on. She apparently wants him to learn ASL so they can talk. That was most definitely Kingpin. But why he has the Tracksuit Mafia working for him makes little sense. Maybe he wants fallguys so his real people can do the work uninterrupted. 

The trick arrows were the highlight of the episode. The pym arrow was awesome.

Jack is a bad guy but he's not the Bad guy, unless he works for Kingpin too. 

[Cobalt Stargazer]

23 minutes ago, paigow said:

Fisk would have better minions than these Bros... Hard to believe he could be a super crime boss with these idiots on the payroll

My impression is that they're the help, pretty much, and Maya is in charge. She very pointedly told Kazi something like, 'Remind me again who's the boss here' and he admits, 'You are.' She wasn't even willing to discuss things with Kazi with them in the room, even though he's apparently her second in command, and she reacted not well to the mention of the situation getting out of hand. If it is Fisk, the track suit guys are just underlings and Maya is the one he deals with face to face.

[paigow]

Maya should be fired if she picked these guys

[Sakura12]

That's why I think Kingpin would use them as distractions. They cause a scene and the cops deal with them while the real crime happens elsewhere. 

[paigow]

Unless Fisk got snapped, there is no plausible reason for Barton leaving him alive.

Edited December 1, 2021 by paigow

[moonshine71]

Omg, did Christmas just come early!?

I'm 5 minutes into the episode and please tell me they just showed us Wilson Fisk!!!! 😃😃😃

[peridot]

I liked the beginning scene.  It was good to see that her father supported her in everything, and encouraged her to walk in both worlds.  I wasn't expecting for him to be a criminal, though.  I was not expecting for a possible Fisk to appear!  I hope they integrate all the Netflix stars into these shows. 

How on Earth did Kate get Kazi's full name and spell it correctly?  It seems pretty dangerous to have lax security on your home laptop. 

The episode just flew by, I hated that it ended there.

[magdalene]

The cheek pincher sounded like Kingpin from Netflix's Daredevil unless I was hallucinating VdO's voice.  Hey, it's Ake from Westworld.  Little dance of joy.  Oh, they killed his character off already. Stops dancing.  Jack is played by a very good actor who I know from the Breaking Bad universe.  Makes me think there may be more to him than standard mustache twirling. I hope so.

This was my favorite episode so far. The show was firing on all cylinders in this one.

[Ailianna]

4 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

So the subway conversation was contrived since Kate could have just as easily sat on the other side of Clint and had a normal conversation.

 

4 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Is that how Clint's hearing loss works? If it wasn't couldn't he have just held the phone up to his good ear to hear his son?

 

4 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

Or get two hearing aids unless one ear he can't hear anything out of, maybe I was wrong about the subway conversation.

 

3 hours ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

He definitely wears the hearing aid in his left ear (the viewer's right when looking at him).  I think if Kate had sat on the other side of him on the train, she definitely would have been talking into his "bad" ear.  What I can't tell, however, is if he has a hearing aid in his right ear and if he's also hard of hearing in that ear, why doesn't he?  They certainly are portraying him as hard of hearing in both ears.

In the first episode Kate was on his right, and he said he can't hear her on that side. She moved to his left, and he showed her the hearing aid. Either his left ear is so damaged even a hearing aid won't work, or he's like some people I know that in that he only has/wears one. But I thought that episode made it clear that even with the hearing aid, he's only hearing on one side.

Regarding the fight with Maya, I also thought his lack of hearing might have thrown him off a bit since hearing his opponent is provably part of his fighting style. If he has any inner ear damage, even if it doesn't normally cause problems, might affect his balance on the very difficult maneuvers he was engaging in.

Edited December 2, 2021 by Ailianna

[Kel Varnsen]

34 minutes ago, Ailianna said:

In the first episode Kate was on his right, and he said he can't hear her on that side. She moved to his left, and he showed her the gearing aid. Either his left ear is so damaged even a hearing aid won't work, or he's like some people I know that in that he only has/wears one. But I thought that episode made it clear that even with the hearing aid, he's only hearing on one side.

Thinking about it now and reading other posts I am going to assume, until told otherwise, that his hearing aid ear is the good ear that can hear with the device in it. The other ear is so far gone that even a hearing aid wouldn't help.  Although maybe he needs to just go see the doctor that fixed his arm in AoU. Because SHIELD should have a way better medical plan for retirees. Mostly because I assume that most SHIELD agents don't make it to retirement.

Also I hadn't realized until I just looked it up that the guy who played Maya's dad was Hanzee from Fargo season 2. Which was the probably the most loaded season of any show ever when it comes to talented and recognizable actors (Ted Danson and Jean Smart to name a few). And even in that season his character was a stand out badass.

[AimingforYoko]

3 hours ago, paigow said:

Fisk would have better minions than these Bros... Hard to believe he could be a super crime boss with these idiots on the payroll

Didn't Clint say Ronin took out "upper management"? Not everybody in OC is a shot-caller.

Always happy to see Zahn McClarnon. Can't wait to see him as Joe Leaphorn from the Hillerman books.

[SnarkShark]

Clint is Huey Lewis.  100% deaf in one ear, and mostly deaf in the other.

[johntfs]

4 hours ago, paigow said:

Unless Fisk got snapped, there is no plausible reason for Barton leaving him alive.

There's plenty of plausible reasons, number one being that maybe Clint never put Wilson Fisk together with The Kingpin.

Let's remember who and what Clint is and, more importantly, who and what he is not.  Clint Barton is a highly trained soldier whose marksmanship/accuracy at least borders on the superhuman.  If you absolutely, positively need every mother-fucker in the room to have arrows growing out of their eyeballs, you call Clint Barton.

But Clint isn't a spy or a detective or, really any kind of trained investigator that we know of.  Figure while he was with SHIELD he had a room full of nerdlings to do that stuff for him.  While he was Ronin, he didn't have all that stuff.  Figure he found some criminals and then threatened/tortured them into giving up their boss/supervisor, climbing the criminal food-chain like that. 

Wilson Fisk could have used that to feed infomations designed to send Ronin after his own enemies and possibly even potential threats to his own power in his own organization (RIP Maya's Daddy).

[paigow]

Did every NYPD detective get snapped? Every Agent in the NYC FBI Field Office? Agreed that Barton would never be mistaken for Sherlock, but he still knows how to ask questions. As Barton, he could ask overworked cops/ feds who the bosses are without raising suspicion.

Edited December 2, 2021 by paigow

[swanpride]

IF it is the King Pin, he might simply not have been around during the Ronin period. It is possible that he got snapped away. It is likewise possible that the guy who killed Echo's father was the OTHER guy who is good with swords in the show, but this might be just another red herring, since it would be soooo much better if the show explored that the people Clint killed were more than just mobsters and at least some of them didn't deserve such a harsh punishment. 

 

Anyway, I liked this episode less than the ones before, because this one lacked the Christmas feeling. And I am not talking about snow here (though the chase scene looking like it was happening in summer didn't help), but just Christmas Songs in the background and one moment through a Christmas tree seller stand is not enough. 

[arc]

The fight in the Tracksuits' lair was pretty cool. And the moment before where Kate was connecting with and giving advice to the one bro who was in a spat with his girlfriend was great.

I'm really wondering how they'll resolve the whole Ronin thing. No matter how criminal Maya's uncle was, she clearly loved him and right now I don't see how she can forgive Clint for murdering him. But it would feel so unfinished if Clint doesn't reveal to (at least) Kate that he was Ronin.

How did Kate know Kazi's last name? Even if Clint told her, how would Clint have known??

The car chase scene was terrific but ultimately kinda looked like it was done on a sub-Shang Chi level budget. (Which was  itself already budgeted lower than most Marvel movies.) Just distracting green screen looking cutout effect here and there. The Pym particle giant arrow resolving the chase was cool, but afterwards I wondered a, who cleaned it up and b, did that thing affect the structural stability of the bridge?

I mostly liked all the Clint's POV hard of hearing effects, except the one in the interrogation where the audio is mostly normal and dips out to Clint's (or Maya's?) POV just for the words "Black Widow". Felt like a cheat to build extra suspense when the entire rest of the conversation had normal audio.

Also, I'm not sure I buy that Clint would be better off without his hearing aid. This may be my ableism, but for instance, he wouldn't have heard Jack at all in the penthouse if he didn't have it.

19 hours ago, tv echo said:

Interesting that Clint is saying Ronin was killed by Black Widow.

It's "true from a certain point of view", to borrow from another mega franchise Disney bought. Nat pulled him out of the murder spiral.

7 hours ago, johntfs said:

But Clint isn't a spy or a detective

He was a spy the same way Natasha was. In a sort of James Bond-ish, secret agent type, and like Natasha, more along the lines of solving tricky diplomatic/international situations with ridiculous violence or straight up assassination. But still, he was a spy long before he was an Avenger. And just last episode we saw him infiltrate the firefighters cleaning out Kate's apartment, because he's got spy training.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

4 hours ago, swanpride said:

it would be soooo much better if the show explored that the people Clint killed were more than just mobsters and at least some of them didn't deserve such a harsh punishment.

Maybe? I don't disagree that some of the people Clint killed were probably not as bad as Wilson Fisk - or even as bad as Jack, come to that, since at the least he stole the Ronin sword for himself knowing where it came from and what it represents -  but we don't know exactly how deep the tracksuit types were into what they were doing. Maya's kindly father, who didn't have the money to put her in an educational environment that would work with her deafness, was in tight enough with Fisk (if it is Fisk) that the guy was close enough to pinch his daughter's cheek. He might not have deserved to be killed, but it's unlikely that he was that sympathetic to people who were not his child. We don't know except in a general way what sort of crime the TM are into. Drugs? Stolen goods? Illegal weapon sales? Prostitution? Maya herself seems very much like an enforcer given the way she put her hands on Kate, the one person in this situation who hasn't really done anything wrong. At first, it likely was just for money, so that Maya's dad could give his daughter a better life, and yes, she's legitimately angry that he was killed. But you have to wonder how deep he waded in before he couldn't get out, and if she's taking her own Ronin path now to get the justice she wants.

[Kel Varnsen]

10 hours ago, johntfs said:

Let's remember who and what Clint is and, more importantly, who and what he is not.  Clint Barton is a highly trained soldier whose marksmanship/accuracy at least borders on the superhuman.  If you absolutely, positively need every mother-fucker in the room to have arrows growing out of their eyeballs, you call Clint Barton.

But Clint isn't a spy or a detective or, really any kind of trained investigator that we know of.  Figure while he was with SHIELD he had a room full of nerdlings to do that stuff for him.  While he was Ronin, he didn't have all that stuff.  Figure he found some criminals and then threatened/tortured them into giving up their boss/supervisor, climbing the criminal food-chain like that. 

Why would we assume that Clint isn't a spy? He works for Shield not the Army.  We don't know much about his missions but we know he worked closely with Natasha and one of her missions was escorting a nuclear scientist out of Iran so we know she didn't just do assassination missions. Why would Clint's job be any different? And if we look at other fictional spies (because I don't think I know any real ones) like Jason Borne or Michael Weston from Burn Notice they are good at the physical stuff but also the intelligence gathering in the field stuff.  Some brainiac at Shield headquarters who is an analyst isn't going to be the one in dangerous locations gathering the data. Plus the first time we see Clint it is in Thor where Fury sends him to investigate Mjolinir, not kill it. If he was just a killer Fury would have probably sent someone else.

Edited December 2, 2021 by Kel Varnsen

[tv echo]

‘Hawkeye’: Episode 3 Rundown, Bro
BY RACHEL PAIGE    December 1, 2021
https://www.marvel.com/articles/tv-shows/hawkeye-episode-3-recap 

Quote

• Putty Arrow: releases a goo-like purple putty
• Plunger Arrow: literally has a plunger on the end of it
• Explosion Arrow: creates a small explosion at the location of impact
• Octo Arrow: shoots out multiple rope lines, bringing all objects back to a central location
• Acid Arrow: contains acid!
• Smoke Bomb Arrow: releases purple smoke
• Pym Arrow: using Pym tech, enlarges an object
• USB Arrow: more useful than you think

 

Edited December 2, 2021 by tv echo

[bethy]

19 hours ago, wlk68 said:

Loved the car chase and all the trick arrows. The "walk the dog" conversation between Kate and Clint in subway car was funny.

Clint going through the arrows all, "Not this one, not this one; no, this one's too dangerous," was hilarious to me. And I laughed out loud for a fairly long time at the subway conversation. Hailee played it so well when Clint started saying pretty much exactly what she had. Those two have great chemistry. 

13 hours ago, AimingforYoko said:

Always happy to see Zahn McClarnon.

Definitely. He was excellent as the police chief for the reservation in Longmire. 

3 hours ago, arc said:

The fight in the Tracksuits' lair was pretty cool. And the moment before where Kate was connecting with and giving advice to the one bro who was in a spat with his girlfriend was great.

I loved that conversation, too. I like how Kate generally vacillates between "See? I know what I'm doing." And "Holy crap, what is happening?" I find Kate very endearing. 

Oh, I also laughed out loud at the name of the moving comany "Trust a Bro Moving Company." 😂

Edited December 2, 2021 by bethy

[Cobalt Stargazer]

2 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

 Some brainiac at Shield headquarters who is an analyst isn't going to be the one in dangerous locations gathering the data. Plus the first time we see Clint it is in Thor where Fury sends him to investigate Mjolinir, not kill it. If he was just a killer Fury would have probably sent someone else.

Put that way, you have to wonder if Fury didn't know or at least suspect that Barton would go against a direct kill order, since that's how he and Natasha first met. He was sent to kill her, either because she'd gotten on SHIELD's radar or because she was trying to get out from under the Red Room program or possibly even both, not recruit her and bring her into the fold. That really would be playing the long game, taking a chance on both of them and hope it turns out the right way.

[Minneapple]

21 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I continue to really enjoy the Tracksuit Mafia goons, they can be somewhat of a threat but are also quite funny. I especially loved when Kate was giving the one goon some legit romantic advice. "Brightside, you don't have to see Imagine Dragons." "I LOVE Imagine Dragons." Truly the most relatable mobsters.

Totally relatable. He bought the tickets ostensibly for his girlfriend but actually for himself because she doesn't like Imagine Dragons but he does. And now she's keeping the tickets for herself and her sister, dammit!