S03:E10 The Wilderness

[toodywoody]

It really pisses me off that all the women except Hillary were made to look like they were making things up and then had to be shamed for the remainder of their lives. Including Linda Tripp and while I don't agree with taping a friend and how she was, she still had the stigma attached to her for the rest of her live meanwhile Bill and Hillary just went on their merry way.

When all this happened I didn't pay much attention to it, I am Monica's age and cannot imagine the hell she had to go through because of an unwise decision.  I'm glad all my unwise decisions weren't broadcast to the whole world. 

With the recent metoo movement I would think more would question how they just loved Bill and why isn't he canceled? Or is he and I just don't know it. Dude had a serious list of women that he either had sex with or did some shady shit with. Like most of his shenanigans were just pushed under the rug. Meanwhile all the women were called whores, slut shamed and treated like shit. And the common denominator was him. 

I feel bad for Paula, she was taken to the cleaners by her lawyer who was just out for money and that's all she cared about, she lost her husband and had to do what she did just to pay the bills and no one would hire her. Meanwhile once again Bill is living the good life. 

Yes, poor Hillary, but she stayed after all his shit, so that's on her. Chelsea however, I can't even imagine learning all this shit about your dad. 

The women all got the shit stick all because he couldn't keep it in his pants and while most of it shouldn't have even been put out there since it was a personal relationship between two adults, but he clearly just used women because he could. What a sack of shit.

[Milburn Stone]

On 11/9/2021 at 11:05 PM, TheGreenKnight said:

The episode opening with a misspelling made me laugh. I know mistakes happen, but it was the first shot....

There's a discussion over in the MSNBC topic about the increasingly frequent spelling errors in their chyrons.

But this one boggled the mind. You can (maybe) see why an intern typing in news chyrons on the fly would make a mistake. But this spelling mistake had to have been seen, and not caught, by innumerable senior people, with plenty of time to fix it before it went on the air.

I hope somebody gets impeached over this.

[pasdetrois]

On 11/10/2021 at 12:25 AM, peridot said:

Did the release of the report actually break the Internet?

It did indeed. Lots of dial-up in those days, and limited network capacity for user traffic and data transmission.

Quote

I really didn't understand who half the players were or what their agenda was or why.

At the time, maybe a dozen people understood all of the players and what they were trying to do. It was a big, fat, wasted $70M mess.

Quote

And this isn't a "times were different then" thing - rape has always been rape.

Of course. But times were different 25 years ago, in terms of how women were treated in general. Men were still smacking women on the fanny, openly commenting on their appearance in work environments, preventing them from doing their jobs. (Ken Starr relegated the pregnant attorney to the background, and Colin Hanks remarked that Starr was "old fashioned.") Broaderick would have been horrified at the thought of how she would be treated and blamed for the alleged assault.

On a lighter note, I had to laugh at Coulter's reference to the "stupid Bush."

Having finished binging the season, my primary annoyance was how girlish and breathy Monica sounded at all times. Well, except for when she thundered at Linda in the hotel: "Linda, what did you do?!" She holds responsibility for eagerly seeking a consensual affair with her boss and a family man.

Edited November 11, 2021 by pasdetrois

[blueroses]

Remembering how things went for Paula Jones, I hope Monica knows just how lucky she is that she had family money to fall back on (even though she still had to do things like the Morton book to start to pay her legal bills).

[MamaMax]

 

1 hour ago, toodywoody said:

It really pisses me off that all the women except Hillary were made to look like they were making things up and then had to be shamed for the remainder of their lives. Including Linda Tripp and while I don't agree with taping a friend and how she was, she still had the stigma attached to her for the rest of her live meanwhile Bill and Hillary just went on their merry way.

When all this happened I didn't pay much attention to it, I am Monica's age and cannot imagine the hell she had to go through because of an unwise decision.  I'm glad all my unwise decisions weren't broadcast to the whole world. 

With the recent metoo movement I would think more would question how they just loved Bill and why isn't he canceled? Or is he and I just don't know it. Dude had a serious list of women that he either had sex with or did some shady shit with. Like most of his shenanigans were just pushed under the rug. Meanwhile all the women were called whores, slut shamed and treated like shit. And the common denominator was him. 

I feel bad for Paula, she was taken to the cleaners by her lawyer who was just out for money and that's all she cared about, she lost her husband and had to do what she did just to pay the bills and no one would hire her. Meanwhile once again Bill is living the good life. 

Yes, poor Hillary, but she stayed after all his shit, so that's on her. Chelsea however, I can't even imagine learning all this shit about your dad. 

The women all got the shit stick all because he couldn't keep it in his pants and while most of it shouldn't have even been put out there since it was a personal relationship between two adults, but he clearly just used women because he could. What a sack of shit.

Was Suzie's motive money? (Judith Light).  Why did I think she was an operative for the anti-Clinton brigade? If anyone was using Paula for money, it was her husband. He said no to the settlement because Suzie convinced him there would be a better offer, no? Am I remembering it right? Paula did the whole thing to convince her dirtbag of a husband that she did NOT in fact consent to sex with Clinton....and he never ever actually believed her. 

[pasdetrois]

Yes, Suzie was Paula's "champion," paid by a conservative Christian organization. Her job was to manipulate Paula to capitalize on her accusations against Clinton so the Christian Right could advance its agenda. In the public's eyes, Paula did not help her case by getting expensive cosmetic surgery and clothes (use the money for better purposes), and for the psychic hotline and Penthouse appearance.

I had the impression at the time that Paula was poorly educated and, in Arkansas, there wouldn't have been a lot of economic opportunity, especially after her notoriety. She was in way over her head.

One foul constant was the media's poking savage fun at the appearance of Paula, Monica and Linda, and the public eating it up. Hillary still gets it.

Edited November 11, 2021 by pasdetrois

[hoodooznoodooz]

Does anyone know if Chelsea ever spoke about Juanita? 

[DanaK]

11 hours ago, toodywoody said:

With the recent metoo movement I would think more would question how they just loved Bill and why isn't he canceled? Or is he and I just don't know it. Dude had a serious list of women that he either had sex with or did some shady shit with. Like most of his shenanigans were just pushed under the rug. Meanwhile all the women were called whores, slut shamed and treated like shit. And the common denominator was him. 

Yes, in the last few years with MeToo, his behavior and his support by women in spite of it has had a serious rethinking. I think he’s been pushed more to the background but I don’t think he’s been outright canceled. And MeToo seems to have also caused a rethinking of the way Monica and the other women were treated during and after the scandal, which is certainly a good thing

[Tdoc72]

So what’s he been doing since Monica?  Cleaned up his act, like with his diet?  Found women that keep their mouths shut?  Too old?   I haven’t heard of any accusation/sorry/rumor since then. 
 

[AllyB]

6 hours ago, Tdoc72 said:

So what’s he been doing since Monica?  Cleaned up his act, like with his diet?  Found women that keep their mouths shut?  Too old?   I haven’t heard of any accusation/sorry/rumor since then. 
 

For the last few years there is a type of allegation that pops up on a semi-regular basis, at least in the British press.

[tvfanatic13]

I too would have liked some follow up at the end, like they did with PvOJS. I had no idea that the Lewinsky's became broke over this, and would have liked some follow up on that and Paula Jones. 

I saw little difference in Linda Tripp pre vs post surgery. Not enough change in the prosthetic.

And for the 10th and final time, I still have not warmed to Beanie in the role. But give Paulson the Emmy now. Until the next one my friends....

[qtpye]

On 11/12/2021 at 1:37 PM, tvfanatic13 said:

I too would have liked some follow up at the end, like they did with PvOJS. I had no idea that the Lewinsky's became broke over this, and would have liked some follow up on that and Paula Jones. 

I saw little difference in Linda Tripp pre vs post surgery. Not enough change in the prosthetic.

And for the 10th and final time, I still have not warmed to Beanie in the role. But give Paulson the Emmy now. Until the next one my friends....

It was expensive but I think she is quite well off, now through the scandal, even without her family money

Someone posted on one of these threads that she is worth 1.5 million but I have no idea of the accuracy of that amount.

There really should have been more of a follow-up.

At the end of the series, I think the person who actually looked worst in this version was Hillary.

She seemed stupid and then more than happy to ride the scandal to political success.  Falco really did not get her at all and made her sound like she grew up in Brooklyn.

I actually think they humanized Linda Tripp as much as possible and that actress will definitely get nominated for an Emmy.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Ugh, that whole discussion about what salacious details to include in the Starr report. Mind-boggling.

Surprising to learn Laura Ingraham had dated Lindsay Graham. I didn't think he swung her way.

Lol, the Starr Report broke the internet. It was a good time to be employed at a Research 1 university and have some of the fastest access available at the time.

Paula Jones reduced to doing scripted phone work for a psychic hotline. Then reduced to doing nude photos for Penthouse. Tastefully though. 🙄 It was like the people who'd used her for their own political purposes couldn't abandon her hard enough.

Yeah, ditto comments upthread, that was an interesting juxtaposition of Hillary taking early campaign photos inside the WH while Paula was doing porn to pay the bills.

Linda bragging about almost meeting JFK Jr. Good grief, she was starfcuking a dead man. And thinking her looks were the cause of her problems. The ugliness started well below the surface IMO.

Interesting theory that Linda was trying to fix her own childhood disappointment with her philandering father by going after Clinton's infidelities. If only she'd sought therapy instead of doing what she did.

Quote

Did Clinton really believe Monica would tell nobody about their interactions?

It didn't seem to me like he thought about that at all or he never would've taken the risk to begin with. And he appears to have had no shame, or at least not the kind that would stop him from doing the horrible things he did to numerous women.

Edited November 14, 2021 by Joimiaroxeu

[chlban]

On 11/11/2021 at 8:05 PM, DanaK said:

Yes, in the last few years with MeToo, his behavior and his support by women in spite of it has had a serious rethinking. I think he’s been pushed more to the background but I don’t think he’s been outright canceled. And MeToo seems to have also caused a rethinking of the way Monica and the other women were treated during and after the scandal, which is certainly a good thing

I think he is, effectively, cancelled, but it did take years and the Me Too movement to do it. Give any aspiring Democratic politician a choice of who they want publicly supporting them, Clinton or Obama and it's not going to be a tough choice. I think both Clinton's are pretty much political poison now, Hillary for her attacks on Bill's women. I think if she had dumped him, she might have become POTUS. 

[chocolatine]

Was that Annie Leibovitz photographing Hillary? She's one of the best and most famous photographers in the world. Stark contrast to Paula's "tasteful" Penthouse shoot, indeed.

I know that Monica has been put through hell, but it was heartwarming to see that her family and best friend never wavered in their support. I think that's probably the main reason why she made it through everything without lingering bitterness. She always had people in her corner, unlike Paula, who was tossed aside like trash by those "Christian" groups when they could no longer use her to advance their agenda. I don't necessarily agree that she had no other choice but to pose nude for Penthouse, but I still feel bad for her.

Watching this through the 2021 lens, I can't believe Clinton got away with harassing and assaulting so many women and is still thought by many to have been a great president. Sickening.

[dubbel zout]

10 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Was that Annie Leibovitz photographing Hillary? She's one of the best and most famous photographers in the world. Stark contrast to Paula's "tasteful" Penthouse shoot, indeed.

I thought those were for Hillary's Vogue cover. In a way it doesn't matter, as the juxtaposition was the point.

[qtpye]

[CeeBeeGee]

For the life of me, I don't understand why IRL Paula Jones doesn't like her portrayal in this series. She comes off as extremely sympathetic--perhaps even the most sympathetic of the main characters. I wanted to smack "Susie" through the screen--she could've found Paula a job. And she shouldn't have counseled Paula to turn down the offer. Penthouse is skeevy as hell but what choice did she have? She had to feed her kids and Penthouse was the only one offering her money. That's a good mom in my eyes--making a terrible choice knowing the blowback she's going to get, but doing it anyway to support her children.

I hated myself for laughing at Anne Coulter. The actress was terribly funny.

[chocolatine]

2 hours ago, CeeBeeGee said:

For the life of me, I don't understand why IRL Paula Jones doesn't like her portrayal in this series. She comes off as extremely sympathetic--perhaps even the most sympathetic of the main characters.

To me show Paula comes across as very unintelligent, so if real-life Paula is (or thinks she is) more intelligent than that, I can see why she's not happy with her portrayal. 

[dubbel zout]

Paula was naive more than unintelligent. She was also unsophisticated, and the advice she got was more often than not better for the person giving it than for Paula herself.

[kj4ever]

On 11/11/2021 at 11:04 AM, pasdetrois said:

It did indeed. Lots of dial-up in those days, and limited network capacity for user traffic and data transmission.

At the time, maybe a dozen people understood all of the players and what they were trying to do. It was a big, fat, wasted $70M mess.

Of course. But times were different 25 years ago, in terms of how women were treated in general. Men were still smacking women on the fanny, openly commenting on their appearance in work environments, preventing them from doing their jobs. (Ken Starr relegated the pregnant attorney to the background, and Colin Hanks remarked that Starr was "old fashioned.") Broaderick would have been horrified at the thought of how she would be treated and blamed for the alleged assault.

On a lighter note, I had to laugh at Coulter's reference to the "stupid Bush."

Having finished binging the season, my primary annoyance was how girlish and breathy Monica sounded at all times. Well, except for when she thundered at Linda in the hotel: "Linda, what did you do?!" She holds responsibility for eagerly seeking a consensual affair with her boss and a family man.

I used to be told every day back during that time that I was taking a job from some poor man that needed to support a family.  I was attractive so I should have my pick of husbands.  No joke, this was how I was treated in the mid to late 90's.

Broaderick would have most certainly been blamed.  Why did she go into the room with him?  Back then poor men couldn't be held accountable for their own appendages.  Women were supposed to not put them in a situation that would cause them to do bad things.  If they did, well that was on them.  Rape was a back alley someone you don't know kind of thing, not something that happened with a man you already knew.

It's sickening but it's the truth.

[ifionlyknew]

54 minutes ago, kj4ever said:

Broaderick would have most certainly been blamed.  Why did she go into the room with him?  Back then poor men couldn't be held accountable for their own appendages.  Women were supposed to not put them in a situation that would cause them to do bad things.  If they did, well that was on them. 

That was said about Paula and Monica too.  At the time I didn't really have an opinion on what happened between Paula and Clinton. Honestly I don't think I really even paid attention to it and probably didn't realize it was because of her lawsuit that we found out about Monica.  It saddens me that so many women after being hurt by Bill Clinton were then hurt all over again by the media and people judging them.

[qtpye]

1 hour ago, kj4ever said:

I used to be told every day back during that time that I was taking a job from some poor man that needed to support a family.  I was attractive so I should have my pick of husbands.  No joke, this was how I was treated in the mid to late 90's.

Broaderick would have most certainly been blamed.  Why did she go into the room with him?  Back then poor men couldn't be held accountable for their own appendages.  Women were supposed to not put them in a situation that would cause them to do bad things.  If they did, well that was on them.  Rape was a back alley someone you don't know kind of thing, not something that happened with a man you already knew.

It's sickening but it's the truth.

I remember that as a girl whose breasts developed early at 11, THAT I WAS responsible for grown men staring at me even if I was wearing nothing provocative.

I also remember that there still was this regressive notion that attractive women would have men take financial care of them and therefore we should not be thinking about things like medical or law school.  It was dying out but the attitude was still there. South Park even did an episode about it ( they had all the pretty girls were in Home Economics and the boys and the ugly girls were in Shop Class because they would have to learn a trade).

I did have girls in my University in the early 2000s who went there mainly looking for husbands. It was called an MRS degree.

Monica seemed to me like her main ambition was to marry a successful wealthy man, like her mother. Unfortunately, where she grew up, wealthy men seemed to prefer tall thin blondes (also like her mother). Monica was quite attractive but she did not meet this California ideal and it seemed to do a real number on her self-esteem.

[dubbel zout]

None of these attitudes are in the past, unfortunately.

[CountryGirl]

On 11/14/2021 at 12:59 AM, chocolatine said:

Was that Annie Leibovitz photographing Hillary? She's one of the best and most famous photographers in the world. Stark contrast to Paula's "tasteful" Penthouse shoot, indeed.

I know that Monica has been put through hell, but it was heartwarming to see that her family and best friend never wavered in their support. I think that's probably the main reason why she made it through everything without lingering bitterness. She always had people in her corner, unlike Paula, who was tossed aside like trash by those "Christian" groups when they could no longer use her to advance their agenda. I don't necessarily agree that she had no other choice but to pose nude for Penthouse, but I still feel bad for her.

Watching this through the 2021 lens, I can't believe Clinton got away with harassing and assaulting so many women and is still thought by many to have been a great president. Sickening.

It is sickening but I can believe it. Ann Coulter is obviously BSC, but she wasn't wrong when she said if Bill could have run for a 3rd term, he would have been elected. 

[cameron]

Just started reading Andrew Morton's book on Monica Lewinsky.  If she did cooperate with him in doing this book; it does portray her as being unhinged and a stalker.  Very unflattering to say the least and I'm not a Bill Clinton fan.

[qtpye]

1 hour ago, cameron said:

Just started reading Andrew Morton's book on Monica Lewinsky.  If she did cooperate with him in doing this book; it does portray her as being unhinged and a stalker.  Very unflattering to say the least and I'm not a Bill Clinton fan.

Does anyone know if Diana was happy with her book? Of course, she was a real princess and he might have had respect for her station.

I have heard that Andrew Morton was quite handsome and charismatic back in the day. He was very good at getting lonely women to confide in him and then maybe painting them in an unflattering light.

Though, Monica, like a lot of young women (including myself...though I never had an affair with a married man) had low self-esteem and was probably at least a little messed up at the time.

As I said before, I actually think Hillary came off the worst in this series. Since Monica was involved, I wonder if a tiny part of her thinks that she and Bill Clinton would have lived happily ever after if not for the wife?

I know a lot of mistresses or side chicks who honestly believe that. They think that the husband would marry them if they were not already married (often citing the kids as an excuse for not leaving the wife).

They buy this bullshit when in truth, the husband will never leave the wife for them (and it is not because of the kids) and they should not let themselves be disrespected in that manner.

The ones that realized they are being used move on to something else or get some sort of financial compensation (like free rent on a nice apartment for a year) for the "arrangement".

[ifionlyknew]

13 minutes ago, qtpye said:

Since Monica was involved, I wonder if a tiny part of her thinks that she and Bill Clinton would have lived happily ever after if not for the wife?

There was what was supposed to be a fictionalized account (which I forget the name) of the Bill/Monica affair and in that book it was written as if they really did care for one another. I do think Monica probably fantasized about Bill leaving Hillary and being with her.  

[mytmo]

On 11/12/2021 at 1:33 AM, Tdoc72 said:

So what’s he been doing since Monica?  Cleaned up his act, like with his diet?  Found women that keep their mouths shut?  Too old?   I haven’t heard of any accusation/sorry/rumor since then. 
 

I read he was friends with Jeffrey Epstein and damn near had his own seat on the Jeffrey Epstein plane.  It'll be interesting if anything comes out of the Ghislaine Maxwell upcoming trial.

Edited November 16, 2021 by mytmo

[CountryGirl]

While Bill was never going to leave Hilary (or her, him), I do think he was very into the hero-worship Monica bestowed on him and probably largely why he started things in the first place and kept them going for so long, consequences be damned.

[kj4ever]

18 hours ago, mytmo said:

I read he was friends with Jeffrey Epstein and damn near had his own seat on the Jeffrey Epstein plane.  It'll be interesting if anything comes out of the Ghislaine Maxwell upcoming trial.

Bill Clinton is a predator and they don't change.  He just found a way to do it where it wouldn't come out.  God I hope it does!

On 11/15/2021 at 8:29 AM, qtpye said:

I remember that as a girl whose breasts developed early at 11, THAT I WAS responsible for grown men staring at me even if I was wearing nothing provocative.

I also remember that there still was this regressive notion that attractive women would have men take financial care of them and therefore we should not be thinking about things like medical or law school.  It was dying out but the attitude was still there. South Park even did an episode about it ( they had all the pretty girls were in Home Economics and the boys and the ugly girls were in Shop Class because they would have to learn a trade).

I did have girls in my University in the early 2000s who went there mainly looking for husbands. It was called an MRS degree.

Monica seemed to me like her main ambition was to marry a successful wealthy man, like her mother. Unfortunately, where she grew up, wealthy men seemed to prefer tall thin blondes (also like her mother). Monica was quite attractive but she did not meet this California ideal and it seemed to do a real number on her self-esteem.

My best friend was in your position and when she was 12 her uncle copped a feel.  Her Mom told her to stop wearing tight shirts and not to be alone with men.  This was the 80's.  The blame was totally put on a 12 year old.

I work in manufacturing and I was deemed to attractive.  When men messed up I would get blamed for being a "distraction".  I'm no super model for sure, but I guess because I'm not considered "ugly" I had no business trying to make a career for myself when I should be able to get someone to do that for me.

On 11/15/2021 at 10:45 AM, dubbel zout said:

None of these attitudes are in the past, unfortunately.

We definitely have a long way to go.

[qtpye]

18 hours ago, CountryGirl said:

While Bill was never going to leave Hilary (or her, him), I do think he was very into the hero-worship Monica bestowed on him and probably largely why he started things in the first place and kept them going for so long, consequences be damned.

One of the things that mistresses or in the case of Monica, the side chick, sometimes do not comprehend is that they are fantasies not reality.

Bill needed her, hero-worship, and adoration. It also did not that their sexual encounters were all about meeting his needs.

However, was he ever going to leave his highly accomplished wife for this (then) clingy girl...hell no.

Even if he did leave Hillary for Monica, it would only be a matter of time before he would start cheating on Monica as well.

That's just the way he operates.

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 11/14/2021 at 10:28 PM, CeeBeeGee said:

I hated myself for laughing at Anne Coulter. The actress was terribly funny.

Cobie Smulders has come really far since the beginning of "How I Met Your Mother" but yeah, I feel like they were way too sympathetic to Ann Coulter and made her super cool for no good reason.  She's not like that.  

[himela]

I'm not an American and I was young when these things were happening so I knew next to nothing about this matter. I didn't love the season, I was really spoiled with the second season of the series so I was expecting something better. After the show ended I looked up Linda Tripp and I was shocked seeing the actress who is playing her. After the shock I read an interview she did about this role and I got mad because she was right talking about the fat-phobia that exists in the world and in the show business specifically. I mean, why take a skinny actress and give her a fat suit and not find an overweight actress from the beginning? I got really mad with this matter, I'm sorry if you all have talked about this matter before. All in all I think this season was not necessary, the info I got about this matter gave me nothing. There were MANY MANY details that I don't find were of any use about anything.

[cameron]

2 hours ago, himela said:

I'm not an American and I was young when these things were happening so I knew next to nothing about this matter. I didn't love the season, I was really spoiled with the second season of the series so I was expecting something better. After the show ended I looked up Linda Tripp and I was shocked seeing the actress who is playing her. After the shock I read an interview she did about this role and I got mad because she was right talking about the fat-phobia that exists in the world and in the show business specifically. I mean, why take a skinny actress and give her a fat suit and not find an overweight actress from the beginning? I got really mad with this matter, I'm sorry if you all have talked about this matter before. All in all I think this season was not necessary, the info I got about this matter gave me nothing. There were MANY MANY details that I don't find were of any use about anything.

I had read previously that Sara Paulson had gained almost 50 pounds for the role.

[himela]

56 minutes ago, cameron said:

I had read previously that Sara Paulson had gained almost 50 pounds for the role.

That's even sadder. Aren't there overweight actresses in the whole USA?

[CeeBeeGee]

1 hour ago, himela said:

That's even sadder. Aren't there overweight actresses in the whole USA?

Sarah Paulson is Ryan Murphy's muse. She's in all his shows. If she indicated she wanted that role, he would give it to her.

[chocolatine]

5 hours ago, CeeBeeGee said:

Sarah Paulson is Ryan Murphy's muse. She's in all his shows. If she indicated she wanted that role, he would give it to her.

It's very likely that he enjoys working with her because she understands his vision and direction and he knows she'll always deliver a great performance. With a new lead actress on every project, there is always the risk that the collaboration won't be as successful - not just creatively, but also financially.

[cameron]

4 hours ago, chocolatine said:

It's very likely that he enjoys working with her because she understands his vision and direction and he knows she'll always deliver a great performance. With a new lead actress on every project, there is always the risk that the collaboration won't be as successful - not just creatively, but also financially.

And she did an incredible job  portraying Linda Tripp.

[mostlylurking]

I felt so badly for Paula. She should have told that shrew Susan to pay her damn bills if Susan was so scandalized by the penthouse shoot. It made me sad. I don’t think she gave Bill a blowie. 

I thought it was kind of ironic that Linda thought she was so ugly in regards to her looks, when actually what made her ugly was her personality. She had a lot of unflattering pictures of herself published at that time but I never thought she was ugly. Very average looking. But her actions are what made her truly hideous, and no amount of plastic surgery could fix that. 

I wonder if Monica had just said she didn’t remember all these minute details if they would have pulled her immunity. It was so over the top unnecessary. 

[mostlylurking]

On 11/14/2021 at 9:28 PM, CeeBeeGee said:

I hated myself for laughing at Anne Coulter. The actress was terribly funny.

Anne Coulter was portrayed extremely well in this show. I laughed at a lot of her lines. I don’t know why she got such a good edit when she seems like a total monster in real life. 

Did Laura Ingram really date Lindsey Graham??  Shudder. 

[qtpye]

37 minutes ago, mostlylurking said:

I felt so badly for Paula. She should have told that shrew Susan to pay her damn bills if Susan was so scandalized by the penthouse shoot. It made me sad. I don’t think she gave Bill a blowie. 

I thought it was kind of ironic that Linda thought she was so ugly in regards to her looks, when actually what made her ugly was her personality. She had a lot of unflattering pictures of herself published at that time but I never thought she was ugly. Very average looking. But her actions are what made her truly hideous, and no amount of plastic surgery could fix that. 

I wonder if Monica had just said she didn’t remember all these minute details if they would have pulled her immunity. It was so over the top unnecessary. 

I am actually wondering if the portrayal of her as this sad lonely woman that no one liked before the scandal is a bit of a retcon to make her seem more sympathetic.

Yes, she was not a beauty but honestly, she looked like millions of other women her age that work in office jobs. Her hairstyle might have even been considered a little stylish (hard to believe) for the time. Monica obviously liked and trusted her, though she was much older.

Linda seemed absolutely SHOCKED that the American people hated her the way they did. She really thought many would look to her as a hero.

The Paula story really put a light on how much privilege can protect a person.

Monica might have had her life blown up (and a lot of that was because of bad decision making, which she fully admits to in the present) but Paula was actually sexually harassed.

She also had family money, connections, and an education.

She knew she would never be living on the street doing desperate things to make a living. I don't find her writing a book as desperate because she might as well get her side of the story out there and profit from it (though I never read the book).

 

[cameron]

6 hours ago, qtpye said:

I am actually wondering if the portrayal of her as this sad lonely woman that no one liked before the scandal is a bit of a retcon to make her seem more sympathetic.

Yes, she was not a beauty but honestly, she looked like millions of other women her age that work in office jobs. Her hairstyle might have even been considered a little stylish (hard to believe) for the time. Monica obviously liked and trusted her, though she was much older.

Linda seemed absolutely SHOCKED that the American people hated her the way they did. She really thought many would look to her as a hero.

The Paula story really put a light on how much privilege can protect a person.

Monica might have had her life blown up (and a lot of that was because of bad decision making, which she fully admits to in the present) but Paula was actually sexually harassed.

She also had family money, connections, and an education.

She knew she would never be living on the street doing desperate things to make a living. I don't find her writing a book as desperate because she might as well get her side of the story out there and profit from it (though I never read the book).

 

Just finished reading the book and she comes across as a totally entitled person and seriously unhinged.

[talktoomuch]

On 11/18/2021 at 9:14 AM, qtpye said:

Monica might have had her life blown up (and a lot of that was because of bad decision making, which she fully admits to in the present) but Paula was actually sexually harassed.

I keep seeing these distinctions in these threads that indicate Monica was not sexually harassed because the relationship was consensual. Just wanted to point out that it is almost impossible to determine whether there is true consent between a subordinate and his/her boss. The boss holds all the power and all the ability to reward or punish potentially undermining any true consent on the part of the employee. Hence current sexual harassment laws include any sex between bosses and their subordinates. 

[qtpye]

3 hours ago, talktoomuch said:

I keep seeing these distinctions in these threads that indicate Monica was not sexually harassed because the relationship was consensual. Just wanted to point out that it is almost impossible to determine whether there is true consent between a subordinate and his/her boss. The boss holds all the power and all the ability to reward or punish potentially undermining any true consent on the part of the employee. Hence current sexual harassment laws include any sex between bosses and their subordinates. 

Monica says it was consensual and I agree that it is very problematic but she admits to going after and pursuing him.

Now, does that excuse him for any of his behavior...absolutely not.

Edited November 21, 2021 by qtpye

[chocolatine]

13 hours ago, talktoomuch said:

I keep seeing these distinctions in these threads that indicate Monica was not sexually harassed because the relationship was consensual. Just wanted to point out that it is almost impossible to determine whether there is true consent between a subordinate and his/her boss. The boss holds all the power and all the ability to reward or punish potentially undermining any true consent on the part of the employee. Hence current sexual harassment laws include any sex between bosses and their subordinates. 

Monica pursued him pretty aggressively (the thong flashing, the gifts, etc.). I believe the women who say that he harassed/assaulted them, but I don't think he harassed Monica, and, most importantly, Monica doesn't seem to think so, either.

[Ciarrai]

On 11/11/2021 at 7:40 PM, hoodooznoodooz said:

Does anyone know if Chelsea ever spoke about Juanita? 

I don't understand why she would?

[hoodooznoodooz]

8 hours ago, Ciarrai said:

I don't understand why she would?

Well, I feel as if more and more people believe Juanita now. Journalists would be hounding Chelsea for a comment. If someone accused my father of rape, I would investigate it. 

[Armchair Critic]

Monica was very fortunate she had a family so supportive who fought for her and had the resources to do it. A different set of parents might have figured she was an adult and it was up to her to take care of her problems. I do feel badly for her that her personal life was used against her and she was betrayed. But she did come off as spoiled and privileged and a bit out of touch with reality, not many interns are living in the Watergate building. I do think she was a kind hearted person though (except for the fact she was fooling around with somebody’s husband).

I thought the portrayals of Linda Tripp and Paula Jones were well done by the actresses and made them more sympathetic.

I recognized most of the people because I followed that story at the time when I worked in media. Lucianne Goldberg was another character and she was well done on this show too.

[Emma Snyder]

On 11/14/2021 at 10:28 PM, CeeBeeGee said:

I wanted to smack "Susie" through the screen--she could've found Paula a job. And she shouldn't have counseled Paula to turn down the offer. Penthouse is skeevy as hell but what choice did she have? She had to feed her kids and Penthouse was the only one offering her money.

From "Paula Poo!!!" to "Paula Who???" Good work by Judith Light, Susie made my skin crawl.

On 11/13/2021 at 8:02 PM, Joimiaroxeu said:

Surprising to learn Laura Ingraham had dated Lindsay Graham.

I guess I missed that part, I only heard on another episode that she dated Dinesh D'Souza.