S03.E07: Too Much Birthday

[RedDelicious]

Okay so all this talk of pasta. They're talking about cocaine, right? Obviously not Rava but definitely Lukas.

I like Rava but she smiles a lot when she's uncomfortable and that somehow makes me feel uncomfortable, but I guess she has to tread lightly because Kendall is such a ticking time bomb. It was good of her to show up and she handled it well. She probably has Kendall's number better than anyone.

I don't like Naomi (obviously) but I love her cool edgy style. 

The show is circling the drain for me at the moment. I'm really sick of all the sibling interactions being based on insults, although I loved the "your mom, your dad....your wife and kids" exchange because that was (sad, but) funny. It would be great if their conversations could have even a hair more depth.

[laprin]

The way Kendall treats Greg makes it impossible for me to root for him. He’s a stealth bully. I think his treatment of Greg is worse than Tom’s treatment. Their motives are very different. Tom mistreats Greg in service to the company and the family. Kendall bullies Greg because he enjoys it. 

After this episode, I am hoping Tom leaves Shiv. He would be a better and happier person without her. If he and Greg could work together to get over on the Roy clan that would be epic. 

[AriAu]

Well, even with all the hysterical lines and the joy of Tom over-turning Greg's desk, that was one seriously depressing hour....I'm depressed this morning, 12 hours after watching. Kendall is not a good person, and is horribly out of touch with reality (no matter how hard he tries to seem relevant), but his fall/spiral was just awful to watch.

[Racj82]

Only a shallow note here but my God did Snook look gorgeous last night. She always does but her hairstyle and that dress. Be still me heart.

[Ellaria]

10 hours ago, Mannahatta said:

At this point I really don't care what happens to the company per se. I'm watching to see how the family dynamics play out. As for cousin Greg - I believe his role is to embody "the everyman" who, in this case, is completely out of his element.

I can see why this show wouldn't be for everyone but I find the banality of the power struggles to be fascinating.

Agree. This is a character-based show. It is the dynamics - and the dysfunction - among the main characters are the attraction of the show for me. Greg is certainly "the everyman" and it will be interesting to see when/if he tires of this nonsense

3 hours ago, dmc said:

I also cannot tell where this season is going either.   But I suspect Shiv will defect and head to team Kendall.  Kendall’s issue in my opinion was pulling this alone in the first place.  

At this point, what is Team Kendall and what does it do? The shareholder meeting and it's inherent drama were resolved. Sure - Sandy. etc have more board seats now and may impact future decision-making but nothing that's obvious at the moment. The DOJ investigation appears to have amounted to nothing noteworthy. Kendall's papers were not a difference-maker. His testimony wasn't compelling. He is seeking new attorneys...to do what exactly? Logan wants him to cash out.

While I agree with the idea that Shiv may "break" with Logan, I'm not sure what joining with Kendall accomplishes. And yet, I think that this is exactly where the show is headed. Logan continues to win even in the face of declining health. I assume that Logan's downfall is coming but not certainly not this season.

If Shiv and perhaps Tom join Kendall, what is their plan? 

Edited November 29, 2021 by Ellaria Sand

[dmc]

1 minute ago, Ellaria Sand said:

Agree. This is a character-based show. It is the dynamics - and the disfunction - among the main characters are the attraction of the show for me. Greg is certainly "the everyman" and it will be interesting to see when/if he tires of this nonsense

At this point, what is Team Kendall and what does it do? The shareholder meeting and it's inherent drama were resolved. Sure - Sandy. etc have more board seats now and may impact future decision-making but nothing that's obvious at the moment. The DOJ investigation appears to have amounted to nothing noteworthy. Kendall's papers were not a difference-maker. His testimony wasn't compelling. He is seeking new attorneys...to do what exactly? Logan wants him to cash out.

While I agree with the idea that Shiv may "break" with Logan, I'm not sure what joining with Kendall accomplishes. And yet, I think that this is exactly where the show is headed. Logan continues to win even in the face of declining health. I assume that Logan's downfall is coming but not certainly not this season.

If Shiv and perhaps Tom join Kendall, what is their plan? 

I’m not sure Kendall had a plan previously.  I’m not sure how he thought taking down his dad would ultimately leave him running his dad’s company.  
 

I’m guessing they would be starting some sort of new venture together

[Lassus]

YMMV I guess, but considering the personalities of every last human being on the show, I still find the hatred of Naomi kind of weird.  She was quite literally the only one at the party among family and friends who cared about Kendall at all, and was more supportive of his emotional problems than Tom has been of Shiv's, or vice-versa, or anyone has been of anyone else's problems on this show. 

I admit I find her wholly unhateable, specifically after this episode and her support and care of a broken Kendall.  And the fact that LOGAN talked her down is being used as a legitimate case against her?  Oy.

 

Lastly, in what I suppose is going to be a fully contrary post, Greg's star has kind of dimmed in my eyes upon learning from watching interviews that his character is actually Nicholas Braun.  He's barely acting at all.

[sugarbaker design]

26 minutes ago, Lassus said:

She was quite literally the only one at the party among family and friends who cared about Kendall at all

If she really cared, wouldn't she help Kendall find the gift his kids have given him?

26 minutes ago, Lassus said:

and was more supportive of his emotional problems than Tom has been of Shiv's, or vice-versa

That's faint praise.

27 minutes ago, Lassus said:

Lastly, in what I suppose is going to be a fully contrary post, Greg's star has kind of dimmed in my eyes upon learning from watching interviews that his character is actually Nicholas Braun

Not contrary to me, I haven't met Nicholas Braun, I wouldn't know that he isn't acting.

[aghst]

47 minutes ago, Ellaria Sand said:

Agree. This is a character-based show. It is the dynamics - and the dysfunction - among the main characters are the attraction of the show for me. Greg is certainly "the everyman" and it will be interesting to see when/if he tires of this nonsense

At this point, what is Team Kendall and what does it do? The shareholder meeting and it's inherent drama were resolved. Sure - Sandy. etc have more board seats now and may impact future decision-making but nothing that's obvious at the moment. The DOJ investigation appears to have amounted to nothing noteworthy. Kendall's papers were not a difference-maker. His testimony wasn't compelling. He is seeking new attorneys...to do what exactly? Logan wants him to cash out.

While I agree with the idea that Shiv may "break" with Logan, I'm not sure what joining with Kendall accomplishes. And yet, I think that this is exactly where the show is headed. Logan continues to win even in the face of declining health. I assume that Logan's downfall is coming but not certainly not this season.

If Shiv and perhaps Tom join Kendall, what is their plan? 

Yeah I think what happens with the company is a side plot.  Obviously they need to retain control of the company and make it more competitive as traditional media is threatened by tech.  Hence the plot about merging/acquiring Gojo, which was originally Kendall's idea.

But the main thing is the family interactions, especially the siblings.  They're all damaged and lash out at each other or in the case of Kendall, he lashed out at Greg in that moment -- but certainly not as vicious as Roman can be.

As long as Logan is lucid and wants to be at the head of the company, nothing is going to change much.  He has to entertain succession questions and people like Lukas wishing he was gone but he's not going away until he's ready to leave or is incapacitated.  Otherwise, they will have to drag him out kicking and screaming.

Logan likes to manipulate his children, pit them against each other, play games.  IRL, the children would probably be fighting over the throne after he dies or he's no longer capable of running the company.  Unlikely he will anoint any of them.

[ahpny]

59 minutes ago, laprin said:

Tom mistreats Greg in service to the company and the family. Kendall bullies Greg because he enjoys it. 

Kendall doesn't seem to have the capacity to enjoy anything. He has more than almost anyone can imagine, but he is still unhappy and lost. Kendall seems to mistreat Greg for the same reason he mistreats everyone. That's all Kendall knows regarding how people relate to one another. Bullying was just the default method of communication during his upbringing, and this same bullying continues up to his 40th birthday through Logan's "gift." The frantic and sad search for a "rabbit" wrapping-papered gift among a literal sea of other gifts was nearly a full psychotic break.

In contrast, Greg, however geekily, asks out the hot girl, she says yes! Even if Greg suspects she does so for "spite or rancor," Greg is as happy as he can be. And appropriately so. That's a healthy and genuine human reaction - and one that none of the Roys seems to be able to comprehend or muster.

Tom just seemed to be jealous of Greg "out of league"-date, and his forehead kiss with Greg looked threatening. That kiss reminded me of a "kiss of death" that one mobster may bestow on another just before an unsuspected whacking.

[Carolina Girl]

1 hour ago, AriAu said:

Well, even with all the hysterical lines and the joy of Tom over-turning Greg's desk, that was one seriously depressing hour....I'm depressed this morning, 12 hours after watching. Kendall is not a good person, and is horribly out of touch with reality (no matter how hard he tries to seem relevant), but his fall/spiral was just awful to watch.

Normally, I watch the episode, read the comments here and then rewatch the episode with a fresh set of eyes based on the observations of the Board.  This time, I have no burning desire to watch it again.

[sugarbaker design]

17 minutes ago, Carolina Girl said:

This time, I have no burning desire to watch it again.

Not even Shiv cutting a rug?  ;)

[Athena5217]

1 hour ago, Melina22 said:

as the night progressed he looked more and more ill until his face was almost grey. When he was being so horribly rude and nasty to Greg he looked like someone about to die of something.

If Jeremy Strong’s Hollywood career ever dries up, he can act as a patient with gastrointestinal symptoms on medical videos. He has mastered looking physically ill on this show.

I expected Shiv to hook up with someone this episode based on Roman’s comments about her looking forward to cheating on Tom while he was in prison. So the bad dancing was unexpected on multiple levels.

[larapu2000]

1 hour ago, Lassus said:

YMMV I guess, but considering the personalities of every last human being on the show, I still find the hatred of Naomi kind of weird.  She was quite literally the only one at the party among family and friends who cared about Kendall at all, and was more supportive of his emotional problems than Tom has been of Shiv's, or vice-versa, or anyone has been of anyone else's problems on this show. 

I admit I find her wholly unhateable, specifically after this episode and her support and care of a broken Kendall.  And the fact that LOGAN talked her down is being used as a legitimate case against her?  Oy.

 

She enables his drug use and addiction.

She enables his childish need for attention and confidence that he has rap or singing skillz enough to perform in front of a massive crowd of mostly strangers.

She wasn't embracing or holding him at the end of the night because she connects with his poor little rich boy persona.  She was holding him because she also has no one else in the world and he is the only available receptor to her currently.  And the same goes for Kendall.

Please don't misconstrue my dislike of her enabling to mean that Kendall isn't responsible for himself 100%.  But she is not a friend.  You are not someone's friend when you know they are an addict and you get high with them anyway.

[cardigirl]

1 hour ago, Lassus said:

YMMV I guess, but considering the personalities of every last human being on the show, I still find the hatred of Naomi kind of weird.  She was quite literally the only one at the party among family and friends who cared about Kendall at all, and was more supportive of his emotional problems than Tom has been of Shiv's, or vice-versa, or anyone has been of anyone else's problems on this show. 

I admit I find her wholly unhateable, specifically after this episode and her support and care of a broken Kendall.  And the fact that LOGAN talked her down is being used as a legitimate case against her?  Oy.

 

Lastly, in what I suppose is going to be a fully contrary post, Greg's star has kind of dimmed in my eyes upon learning from watching interviews that his character is actually Nicholas Braun.  He's barely acting at all.

My concern with Naomi is that she is pulling a "long con" on the Roy family and Kendall and that she'll betray him at his most vulnerable, which could have been this party.  When they met, Naomi told Ken all about how much she hated the way their tabloids had treated her after her mother's death. 

I think they are both lost souls, highly functioning addicts, and she is probably bad for Ken in that she isn't in control of her addictions and can't be a strong support for him. I don't hate her, as I don't see her preventing anything. 

It was interesting to me that Logan mentioned going after Pierce again in this episode.  I LOVED that arc and was rooting for the snotty Pierce family to lose their empire (sorry, but they were just SO proud of themselves). I'm wondering if that will again become part of the story, fighting with Nan and the Pierce family to add to the Roy empire. I could see Naomi deciding to betray Ken through that. 

Edited November 29, 2021 by cardigirl

[cardigirl]

6 minutes ago, larapu2000 said:

She enables his drug use and addiction.  True. 

She enables his childish need for attention and confidence that he has rap or singing skillz enough to perform in front of a massive crowd of mostly strangers. He doesn't need her to enable him, he has that confidence all on his own. 😄

She wasn't embracing or holding him at the end of the night because she connects with his poor little rich boy persona.  She was holding him because she also has no one else in the world and he is the only available receptor to her currently.  And the same goes for Kendall.

Disagree on this, but to each his/her own. 

Please don't misconstrue my dislike of her enabling to mean that Kendall isn't responsible for himself 100%.  But she is not a friend.  You are not someone's friend when you know they are an addict and you get high with them anyway.

I added my answers in italics, as I'm not sure how to break down a quote. I think Kendall liked her because she saw through him that night at the Pierce home. They are similar in how they are dealing with the pain in their lives. It's not healthy, but for the moment, Ken doesn't feel guilty when he's with her, and that's a respite from how he feels with his kids, his ex-wife, his father ... 

[dmc]

1 hour ago, Lassus said:

YMMV I guess, but considering the personalities of every last human being on the show, I still find the hatred of Naomi kind of weird.  She was quite literally the only one at the party among family and friends who cared about Kendall at all, and was more supportive of his emotional problems than Tom has been of Shiv's, or vice-versa, or anyone has been of anyone else's problems on this show. 

I admit I find her wholly unhateable, specifically after this episode and her support and care of a broken Kendall.  And the fact that LOGAN talked her down is being used as a legitimate case against her?  Oy.

 

Lastly, in what I suppose is going to be a fully contrary post, Greg's star has kind of dimmed in my eyes upon learning from watching interviews that his character is actually Nicholas Braun.  He's barely acting at all.

I mean she keeps doing coke with an addict she claims to care about.  

53 minutes ago, ahpny said:

Kendall doesn't seem to have the capacity to enjoy anything. He has more than almost anyone can imagine, but he is still unhappy and lost. Kendall seems to mistreat Greg for the same reason he mistreats everyone. That's all Kendall knows regarding how people relate to one another. Bullying was just the default method of communication during his upbringing, and this same bullying continues up to his 40th birthday through Logan's "gift." The frantic and sad search for a "rabbit" wrapping-papered gift among a literal sea of other gifts was nearly a full psychotic break.

In contrast, Greg, however geekily, asks out the hot girl, she says yes! Even if Greg suspects she does so for "spite or rancor," Greg is as happy as he can be. And appropriately so. That's a healthy and genuine human reaction - and one that none of the Roys seems to be able to comprehend or muster.

Tom just seemed to be jealous of Greg "out of league"-date, and his forehead kiss with Greg looked threatening. That kiss reminded me of a "kiss of death" that one mobster may bestow on another just before an unsuspected whacking.

Greg is hot.  Of course, she said yes.  Also I think the way he stammers is adorable

 

Also no one seems happy tonight except for Greg and his number.

Tom is jealous that is relationship is DOA and Shiv legit barely notices he's alive

Shiv danced like Elaine and is iced out of the company

Kendall is a fountain of infinite sadness

And even Roman doesn't seem happy either and I think he's legit angry at Kendall for breaking up their shitty family dynamic

LOL

Edited November 29, 2021 by dmc

[Hera]

13 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

I wonder if there was ever an intention to see whatever performance Kendall was initially cooking up or if the show knew that it would probably be hard to ever top "L to the OG" from last season (with Kendall's main boy, Squiggle!)

I don't know—seeing Kendall get up on the cross would have topped "L to the OG" for me, but might have alienated enough people that they had to shy away from doing it. There were massive shades of episode 3 from this season, when Kendall backed out of going on the Sophie Iwobi show at the last minute. In both that and this episode, Kendall was right not to do the shows, but should never have planned on doing them in the first place.

Roman struck a smart deal with Lukas Matsson (and Alexander Skarsgård is always welcome on my screen), but if this deal goes through, I suspect he will not be able to keep up the part of it that says Lukas will never have to deal with Logan. Logan currently likes Roman the best because Roman is the best at feeding his ego, but the minute he sniffs out that Lukas and Roman have an agreement that sidelines him, Roman will be on the outs and Logan will demand an in-person meeting with Lukas, where Lukas either kisses the ring or gets totally screwed… or both.

Nitpick: I don't understand the in-universe reason why that bouncer was intimidated by Roman yelling that he was being touched inappropriately. Drop his hand, wait for Roman to try to get through again, then shove him away. The bouncer knew that Kendall had banned him from the treehouse—all he had to do was not let him through. I would have rather seen Roman actually sneak in than have him bully the bouncers.

[Bluesky]

7 hours ago, Lassus said:

Jeremy Strong somehow managed to make me feel sorry for Kendall, which is worthy of a lot of awards.

I can’t imagine not feeling sorry for him.  Growing up with a cold mother who doesn’t hide her complete disinterest in her children.  A father who cavalierly told Kendall to lie, take the blame and take his place in jail.  A birthday card from his 80 year old father crossing out Happy Birthday and writing fuck off.  The constant picking at him, telling him he’s not good enough. Who could come through that and be mentally healthy?

[Bluesky]

2 hours ago, laprin said:

The way Kendall treats Greg makes it impossible for me to root for him. He’s a stealth bully. I think his treatment of Greg is worse than Tom’s treatment. Their motives are very different. Tom mistreats Greg in service to the company and the family. Kendall bullies Greg because he enjoys it. 

Greg abandoned Kendall just like everyone else. Greg gave Logan confidential information on Kendall that Greg learned when he was Team Kendall.  Pretty shitty move.   Kendall probably has a mixture of hurt and rage.   
 

I hope greasy rat face Roman deal fails.  Did he really think they bonded over peeing on a phone so much that the guy agreed to sell his company to him? His constant yammering about nothing gets tiresome. 

[Carolina Girl]

1 hour ago, sugarbaker design said:

Not even Shiv cutting a rug?  ;)

I kept waiting for Elaine Benes to show up........

[BlackberryJam]

Cousin Greg is a shit human, just like all Roys. When we met him, he was what? Working as a walking Disney-type character, getting high and vomiting in front of kids? Just because NB reeks of nerdcharm doesn’t make Greg likable or decent. Comfry of the stupid name and bad hair should run, run like hell. I mean, just last week, Greg was being feted by the far right for his plan to sue Greenpeace for money to which he has no right nor entitlement. Greg wants all the financial perks the Roy children have, but he doesn’t want to put in any work for it, just like they didn’t have to. 

Shiv’s dancing was classically bad.

Naomi isn’t individually worse than anyone else, but somehow she always makes a horrible situation just so much shittier by her complete lack of empathy and myopic point of view. 

Shiv asked Roman about Tabitha, right? Have we even seen her?

 

 

 

[Pop Tart]

25 minutes ago, Bluesky said:

Greg abandoned Kendall just like everyone else. Greg gave Logan confidential information on Kendall that Greg learned when he was Team Kendall.  Pretty shitty move.   Kendall probably has a mixture of hurt and rage.

This gets at why I don't really see Greg as this innocent naif, everyman. He is just as changeable in his loyalties and out for himself as everyone else. He went with Kendall when he thought that would do him good and just as quickly switched sides to Logan when offered Parks. He has shown all along that he's out to protect himself first and that he thinks he should get some great position in the company because of his family name.

I think what makes him different then the Roy kids is that he seems to have had a more functional childhood. He seems close to his mother at least and though his grandfather is tough, he has shown to be in Greg's corner most of the time. So Greg has his moments of normalness, but he has schemed a fair amount. 

I enjoy Greg and think he's not evil certainly, but he has come into this whole thing with the goal of getting his piece of the Waystar pie, so I don't think he's a complete innocent.

edited to add: I see Blackberry Jam and I were on the same wavelength. Well said Blackberry.

Also re Naomi: I think their main connection (her with Kendall) is that given their backgrounds as scions of powerful families and both being addicts, they are among the few who can truly understand what the other's life is like. I don't hate Naomi because she in her own way is just as damaged as Kendall and I think that's why they're drawn to one another.

Edited November 29, 2021 by Pop Tart

[larapu2000]

1 hour ago, cardigirl said:

I added my answers in italics, as I'm not sure how to break down a quote. I think Kendall liked her because she saw through him that night at the Pierce home. They are similar in how they are dealing with the pain in their lives. It's not healthy, but for the moment, Ken doesn't feel guilty when he's with her, and that's a respite from how he feels with his kids, his ex-wife, his father ... 

That's the point.  He SHOULD feel guilty about how he treats his kids.  He SHOULD feel guilty that his drug use (not sure if that was established as what ended the marriage) drove away a woman that still cares enough about him to show up at a ridiculous spectacle of a birthday party because she knows she is likely one of the few adults in his life that are there because they love him and want nothing from him.  

I was kind of indifferent towards Naomi until this episode, honestly.  Then the watch thing happened to make it glaringly obvious that she does not give a single fuck about him.  

[cardigirl]

1 minute ago, larapu2000 said:

That's the point.  He SHOULD feel guilty about how he treats his kids.  He SHOULD feel guilty that his drug use (not sure if that was established as what ended the marriage) drove away a woman that still cares enough about him to show up at a ridiculous spectacle of a birthday party because she knows she is likely one of the few adults in his life that are there because they love him and want nothing from him.  

I was kind of indifferent towards Naomi until this episode, honestly.  Then the watch thing happened to make it glaringly obvious that she does not give a single fuck about him.  

Yes, but feeling guilty all the time is not a great feeling.  Why not be with someone who doesn't add to the pile?  It's not only billionaires that do that.  Since neither one of them has much emotional support (so it seems, not sure about Naomi) they tend to go for someone who's not going to be constantly reminding them of their failures. It's not healthy, but I don't see Naomi as leading Ken astray. Before she showed up, he was kind of a zombie around his father. He felt he found someone who knew who he was but wasn't disappointed in him for it. 

Agree about the gift though. She didn't try. And Ken realized that. 

[Melina22]

2 hours ago, larapu2000 said:

She enables his drug use and addiction.

She enables his childish need for attention and confidence that he has rap or singing skillz enough to perform in front of a massive crowd of mostly strangers.

She looked like she was trying to cover up her intense interest when Kendall said his dad was offering to buy him out for "2  Bill." (I did hear this correctly?) She usually goes along with everything he says, no matter how insane, but she balked at passing on 2 billion. It's hard to imagine how even the most pure-hearted person (let alone Naomi) would be unaffected by this much money and the thought of all it could do. 

When she was holding him on the balcony, I found myself reading many things into her expression, like "Again with this! Why can't I ever enjoy a party?" and "Is this what I have to do to date a billionaire?" I didn't read any deep love and devotion. But maybe that's just what I would have been thinking. 😁

 

 

[cardigirl]

8 minutes ago, Melina22 said:

She looked like she was trying to cover up her intense interest when Kendall said his dad was offering to buy him out for "2  Bill." (I did hear this correctly?) She usually goes along with everything he says, no matter how insane, but she balked at passing on 2 billion. It's hard to imagine how even the most pure-hearted person (let alone Naomi) would be unaffected by this much money and the thought of all it could do. 

Natalie has money of her own. 

[sistermagpie]

 

6 hours ago, dmc said:

Shiv is an opportunist and she’s been boxed out with her dad.  I suspect she will bail.  Not because she hates Roman or her dad, she’s not Kendall.  She will leave strictly out of self interest.  Her career has stalled there. Won’t be surprised if they use the 2 Billion payout to start a competing company. The only women who survive at her dad’s company are Gerris.  She’s not a Gerri type. 

Yeah, it seems significant that Shiv genuinely is surprised by how low the family sinks. She started out as a sort of centrist liberal type. People are right to call her a phony, but it wasn't just a pose, it doesn't seem. It's more like she thought the problems at the company were more superficial and didn't realize how committed the individuals are to being terrible. She really did seem to dream about making Waystar "better."

 

4 hours ago, dmc said:

Oh and she drank Rava’s expensive wine without asking…who does this?

That was the moment I genuinely started to dislike her, though I always saw her as someone who couldn't help but be a bad influence. Usually it's just that she doesn't have enough substance to be all that supportive. She gets him a present, actually wants to hang out with him. She and Kendall only really seemed to have each other at the party. Her present wasn't great but then, the guy's got everything and their relationship doesn't actually have anything that would suggest a good present he'd like--besides drugs, which I thought was in the box as well. And Kendall's just as shallow complaining about how she knows he has a watch so why did she get him one? Should have asked him what he *did* want because guaranteed he wouldn't have been able to think of anything either.

But still, the wine thing is unforgiveable, both her demanding it to begin with and her reaction after the fact. Someone who doesn't understand why that bottle of wine could matter beyond her wanting to drink the best wine available at any moment, obviously, is why she's not going to be able to give Kendall a good present. 

4 hours ago, BlackberryJam said:

Rava looked lovely, classy and put together. Such a contrast to Naomi with her ick hair and button down skirt as a top.

I was seriously distracted by how pretty she looked, particularly because I remember her from The Americans where she had 80s mom hair that was way less flattering to her.

 

2 hours ago, ahpny said:

In contrast, Greg, however geekily, asks out the hot girl, she says yes! Even if Greg suspects she does so for "spite or rancor," Greg is as happy as he can be. And appropriately so. That's a healthy and genuine human reaction - and one that none of the Roys seems to be able to comprehend or muster.

Tom just seemed to be jealous of Greg "out of league"-date, and his forehead kiss with Greg looked threatening. That kiss reminded me of a "kiss of death" that one mobster may bestow on another just before an unsuspected whacking.

Yup, that's what everyone was really jealous of. Even the fact that they kept saying Comfry was out of his league. Not because she's that pretty, but they think a guy needs to have a ton of money or connections to get any girl remotely attractive. Kendall probably thinks she'd prefer him despite how he's been acting about the party. 

There was a similar thing with Rava and how Kendall described her birthday plans with contempt when they were clearly describing a really nice night. Likewise, Comfry's story of the lunchboxes was one of the most real interactions of the whole night.

When Roman mentioned all the people missing from Kendall's party, he didn't just list family (your father, mother, wife and children) but also added "any real friends."

1 hour ago, Hera said:

 

Nitpick: I don't understand the in-universe reason why that bouncer was intimidated by Roman yelling that he was being touched inappropriately. Drop his hand, wait for Roman to try to get through again, then shove him away. The bouncer knew that Kendall had banned him from the treehouse—all he had to do was not let him through. I would have rather seen Roman actually sneak in than have him bully the bouncers.

Me neither. I said out loud, "Why are you letting him in?" Just another sign for how weak Kendall is? (Btw, the running gag of Connor and his coat was great.)

1 hour ago, Bluesky said:

Greg abandoned Kendall just like everyone else. Greg gave Logan confidential information on Kendall that Greg learned when he was Team Kendall.  Pretty shitty move.   Kendall probably has a mixture of hurt and rage.   

Iirc, no, Greg started treating Greg badly before that. Greg called Tom about Kendall going to Waystar in response to Kendall pulling that dick move with the watch, which he seemed to do for similar reasons to Roman acting like a dick here. When they feel like things are going well they act like dicks, for some reason. His bullying tonight is coming after he informed Greg that he'd be throwing him to the wolves (again similar to the watch where he first said he would protect him, then claimed he only said he'd try to protect him). 

I honestly don't get the impression that Kendall's treatment of Greg has to do with Greg's betrayal specifically. He's just someone low enough on the totem pole that he can lash out at. He and Tom both seem to sometimes react to Greg with resentment for having a just slightly better place in the family than they do at any given moment.

 

42 minutes ago, Pop Tart said:

This gets at why I don't really see Greg as this innocent naif, everyman. He is just as changeable in his loyalties and out for himself as everyone else. He went with Kendall when he thought that would do him good and just as quickly switched sides to Logan when offered Parks. He has shown all along that he's out to protect himself first and that he thinks he should get some great position in the company because of his family name.I think what makes him different then the Roy kids is that he seems to have had a more functional childhood. He seems close to his mother at least and though his grandfather is tough, he has shown to be in Greg's corner most of the time. So Greg has his moments of normalness, but he has schemed a fair amount. 

To me, that doesn't contrary to him being an Everyman. As you say, he's never been innocent. When we met him he was a slacker getting high and vomiting at his very simple job. Naturally he would like the easy life that these guys have. He's tempted by the money. He can tell the difference between good and bad champagne having tasted them. But most ordinary people would be--and they would definitely be out to protect themselves, as they should be, since none of these people care about him.

I really do think what makes him the Everyman is his more normal childhood--he has the capacity to enjoy things in life that none of these other people have. He can actually experience things for what they are, like being happy about the girl he likes accepting a date while still admitting it might not go anywhere and that she doesn't think he's god's gift to women. Ordinary people aren't that great.

1 hour ago, Pop Tart said:

Also re Naomi: I think their main connection (her with Kendall) is that given their backgrounds as scions of powerful families and both being addicts, they are among the few who can truly understand what the other's life is like. I don't hate Naomi because she in her own way is just as damaged as Kendall and I think that's why they're drawn to one another.

I agree--but I think part of that, too, is that they both think they have the hardest life in the world and so are justified in whatever they do. Feeling sorry for yourself and the person of the moment who identifies with you doesn't necessarily translate being able to care.

2 minutes ago, cardigirl said:

Natalie has money of her own. 

It's never enough, though.

[dmc]

1 minute ago, sistermagpie said:

 

Yeah, it seems significant that Shiv genuinely is surprised by how low the family sinks. She started out as a sort of centrist liberal type. People are right to call her a phony, but it wasn't just a pose, it doesn't seem. It's more like she thought the problems at the company were more superficial and didn't realize how committed the individuals are to being terrible. She really did seem to dream about making Waystar "better."

 

That was the moment I genuinely started to dislike her, though I always saw her as someone who couldn't help but be a bad influence. Usually it's just that she doesn't have enough substance to be all that supportive. She gets him a present, actually wants to hang out with him. She and Kendall only really seemed to have each other at the party. Her present wasn't great but then, the guy's got everything and their relationship doesn't actually have anything that would suggest a good present he'd like--besides drugs, which I thought was in the box as well. And Kendall's just as shallow complaining about how she knows he has a watch so why did she get him one? Should have asked him what he *did* want because guaranteed he wouldn't have been able to think of anything either.

But still, the wine thing is unforgiveable, both her demanding it to begin with and her reaction after the fact. Someone who doesn't understand why that bottle of wine could matter beyond her wanting to drink the best wine available at any moment, obviously, is why she's not going to be able to give Kendall a good present. 

I was seriously distracted by how pretty she looked, particularly because I remember her from The Americans where she had 80s mom hair that was way less flattering to her.

 

Yup, that's what everyone was really jealous of. Even the fact that they kept saying Comfry was out of his league. Not because she's that pretty, but they think a guy needs to have a ton of money or connections to get any girl remotely attractive. Kendall probably thinks she'd prefer him despite how he's been acting about the party. 

There was a similar thing with Rava and how Kendall described her birthday plans with contempt when they were clearly describing a really nice night. Likewise, Comfry's story of the lunchboxes was one of the most real interactions of the whole night.

When Roman mentioned all the people missing from Kendall's party, he didn't just list family (your father, mother, wife and children) but also added "any real friends."

Me neither. I said out loud, "Why are you letting him in?" Just another sign for how weak Kendall is? (Btw, the running gag of Connor and his coat was great.)

Iirc, no, Greg started treating Greg badly before that. Greg called Tom about Kendall going to Waystar in response to Kendall pulling that dick move with the watch, which he seemed to do for similar reasons to Roman acting like a dick here. When they feel like things are going well they act like dicks, for some reason. His bullying tonight is coming after he informed Greg that he'd be throwing him to the wolves (again similar to the watch where he first said he would protect him, then claimed he only said he'd try to protect him). 

I honestly don't get the impression that Kendall's treatment of Greg has to do with Greg's betrayal specifically. He's just someone low enough on the totem pole that he can lash out at. He and Tom both seem to sometimes react to Greg with resentment for having a just slightly better place in the family than they do at any given moment.

 

To me, that doesn't contrary to him being an Everyman. As you say, he's never been innocent. When we met him he was a slacker getting high and vomiting at his very simple job. Naturally he would like the easy life that these guys have. He's tempted by the money. He can tell the difference between good and bad champagne having tasted them. But most ordinary people would be--and they would definitely be out to protect themselves, as they should be, since none of these people care about him.

I really do think what makes him the Everyman is his more normal childhood--he has the capacity to enjoy things in life that none of these other people have. He can actually experience things for what they are, like being happy about the girl he likes accepting a date while still admitting it might not go anywhere and that she doesn't think he's god's gift to women. Ordinary people aren't that great.

I agree--but I think part of that, too, is that they both think they have the hardest life in the world and so are justified in whatever they do. Feeling sorry for yourself and the person of the moment who identifies with you doesn't necessarily translate being able to care.

It's never enough, though.

Yes Naomi has money but not two billion.  That being said, I think her interest in Kendall is just that they are two adrift people who cannot get it together.  She is exactly like him, a series of near misses and mishaps.  Both are at the age where people are settled or settling down and neither of them can make that work.  

Shiv seems depressed about it but she just as terrible. Yes she is not in with the Nazis but she has openly asked a victim not to testify, she's cool covering up the cruise mishaps (sorry for calling rape a mishap, crime is the better word).  

The saddest part for me was the moment Kendall realized no one was there for him.  I felt awful for him and rage because this is a person both his siblings know has serious problems with addiction and that there is a real chance he could die somewhere of an overdose...yet they continue to treat him like garbage.  Also why Naomi seems like she is there for him, its an empty kind of there.  He truly has no one.  

[Lady S.]

17 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I fully could see Tom being into it, but I don't think Greg would be. 

Yeah, the "prove it" wasn't flirtation, just a comeback to Tom's bs where s1 Greg would have just chuckled awkwardly. There have been multiple signs that Tom no longer has the hold he used to over Greg back when none of the other Roys paid attention to him, and it's left Tom pretty frustrated. Being the company Christmas tree was Tom's one way to feel important and now he doesn't even have that because he can't really be confident of Logan's gratitude for his attempted sacrifice.

As for Tom/Shiv, I don't think Roman was completely on the money about her being eager for his prison sentence so she could "ride dick" again, but more that both of them had got used to the idea of this enforced separation where their issues wouldn't be staring them in the face so much.  Now they're back where they started, stuck with their marriage problems, and neither knows how to deal with it.

Roman really is a moron if he truly believes he's the only kid needed, learning nothing from the way Logan jerked around Kendall and Shiv while refusing to ever actually step aside. And he's failed to realize that Logan's sudden regard for him is because he tells Daddy what he wants to hear and he probably won't be pleased to hear about Roman's promise to keep him away from Lukas.

8 hours ago, dmc said:

I also cannot tell where this season is going either.   But I suspect Shiv will defect and head to team Kendall.  

Sadly, I don't think Team Kendall is worth joining at this point. I did think her actually defending Kendall at the end was a sign of something. Hopefully, we are seeing her come to the breakthrough that there's no future for her at Waystar.

A comment on another review reminded me that Logan used to refer to Kendall's past addiction trouble as a mental breakdown in s1 while everyone else just spoke of rehab but it's becoming more and more clear there was some truth in that. Kendall has serious mental health issues of some sort and the cocaine and whatever else is just him self-medicating.

There was a lot of other messed-up stuff going on at that party but I thought it was unfair of Kendall to be the jacket police while going around most of the night wearing a coat over a sweater himself.

[Kirsty]

I enjoy the individual episodes. This week Tom letting loose by turning over Greg's desk and trashing the room made me laugh a lot. I love some of the fantastic lines in the script. Of course I knew the birthday episode was going to be depressing but I was still moved by Kendall's sadness.

But... there's so little forward momentum. At the start of the season things seemed to be happening. Logan was threatened by Kendall's move and everyone knew it. That shook things up and made for good drama. But as the season progressed, everything returned to the status quo and the show is stuck there. I don't usually watch shows that press the reset button at the end of each episode. That's what this show is starting to feel like. Like you could just watch an episode here and there for fun and the order doesn't really matter. This week they try to make a deal at a birthday party, the sibs quarrel and Logan growls. Next week they try to make a deal in Tuscany and same again.

3 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

And Kendall's just as shallow complaining about how she knows he has a watch so why did she get him one

Idk if that was shallow. It was one of a series of birthday disappointments coming back to back. Not that he got a watch, but that the one person who claims to care about him doesn't know him well enough to get him something he would like or find meaningful. There was nothing personal about the gift, that was the disappointing part. It could have been a corporate gift. For someone who's "shit at gifts" Naomi built it up as though it was special. And for Kendall it was one disappointment too many so he couldn't brush it off.

I liked how petty the show allowed Kendall to be, between Connor's jacket and not letting his family into the tree house. It was pathetic and ridiculous.  And it was also his way of hitting back, of trying to control things, of expressing his disappointment with how the night was turning out. I can be a petty asshole sometimes (I'm not proud) and that shit rang true.

Edited to add: When Kendall started to cry, and he said "I wish I was..." did anyone else think he was going to say "dead"?

Edited November 29, 2021 by Kirsty

[Carolina Girl]

3 hours ago, dmc said:

LOL

I see the two of us thought the same thing!  

[RichterChick]

I find it fascinating that there’s a line Logan seemingly doesn’t want to cross.  He would tell Kendall to sell his shares and fuck off, he'd allow spying on his grandchildren, and Shiv’s letter about Kendall’s mental state, but Logan won’t go public with Kendall’s involvement in the waiter’s death at the end of season 1?  I can’t figure out why he’s holding that back, especially after Kendall stabbed him in the back. 

[Brian Cronin]

5 hours ago, dmc said:

I’m not sure Kendall had a plan previously.  I’m not sure how he thought taking down his dad would ultimately leave him running his dad’s company.  

I agree that his plan has been terrible, but remember, his alternate was being a scapegoat for the family and going to prison, so it wasn't like he had a whole lot of opportunities. He's certainly in a better spot now than had he went to prison. 

3 minutes ago, RichterChick said:

I find it fascinating that there’s a line Logan seemingly doesn’t want to cross.  He would tell Kendall to sell his shares and fuck off, he'd allow spying on his grandchildren, and Shiv’s letter about Kendall’s mental state, but Logan won’t go public with Kendall’s involvement in the waiter’s death at the end of season 1?  I can’t figure out why he’s holding that back, especially after Kendall stabbed him in the back. 

Logan was the one who covered it up. Leaking it would hurt him as much as it would hurt Kendall. Gerri alluded to that thing when Roman was so giddy about the tattooed homeless man and she reminded him that the story hurts him as much as it hurts Kendall.

[Carolina Girl]

14 minutes ago, RichterChick said:

 I can’t figure out why he’s holding that back, especially after Kendall stabbed him in the back. 

Who knows?   I think that if Logan reveals that, it will just show that once again, Logan turns a blind eye to criminal behavior (because he knew) and perhaps pays people off to keep friends and family out of trouble.  Might also be enough for DOJ to turn the heat back up again.  

Of course, Logan could always have someone "leak" the information to a rival tabloid/news organization that would not give rise to the idea that he had knowledge of the incident.  However, Kendall would no doubt then reveal that Logan visited the family.  I'm not sure - did he settle with them to keep Kendall out of it?  

[aghst]

1 hour ago, Melina22 said:

She looked like she was trying to cover up her intense interest when Kendall said his dad was offering to buy him out for "2  Bill." (I did hear this correctly?) She usually goes along with everything he says, no matter how insane, but she balked at passing on 2 billion. It's hard to imagine how even the most pure-hearted person (let alone Naomi) would be unaffected by this much money and the thought of all it could do. 

When she was holding him on the balcony, I found myself reading many things into her expression, like "Again with this! Why can't I ever enjoy a party?" and "Is this what I have to do to date a billionaire?" I didn't read any deep love and devotion. But maybe that's just what I would have been thinking. 😁

 

 

I didn't see that as Naomi suggesting that Naomi cash out because she'd benefit some way.

Just an opinion that it might not be the worst option for Kendall.  He has equity in Waystar but he's got no power there.

 

Also, arguably, it would be better for his emotional health if he disengaged from the business and the family, kind of like how Connor has no involvement with Waystar.

Of course Connor has nutty ideas since he has so much time on his hands but maybe being a crackpot isn't as emotionally painful as being cockblocked repeatedly by his father and siblings repeatedly.

[Lady S.]

3 minutes ago, Carolina Girl said:

Who knows?   I think that if Logan reveals that, it will just show that once again, Logan turns a blind eye to criminal behavior (because he knew) and perhaps pays people off to keep friends and family out of trouble.  Might also be enough for DOJ to turn the heat back up again.  

Of course, Logan could always have someone "leak" the information to a rival tabloid/news organization that would not give rise to the idea that he had knowledge of the incident.  However, Kendall would no doubt then reveal that Logan visited the family.  I'm not sure - did he settle with them to keep Kendall out of it?  

IIrc, the visit to the dead guy's family was just to fork with Kendall and defend Logan's own name because he argued with the waiter. The family has no idea about the rest of the story. Logan didn't just turn a blind eye, he had his security guy cover up Kendall's involvement in the accident. I do wonder if it's not just Logan's own liability at play but his general NRPI attitude. It's one thing to send Ken to jail to protect Logan, could be another entirely to see any Roy arrested for a personal crime involving some low-class nobody. 

 

[Marley]

Naomi is fucked up too so how would she be helping Kendall get better. They are together because they are both fucked up addicts from rich ass families. Well and they seemed to enjoy each others company in other episodes. It’s not on her to fix Kendall either. He needs to fix himself but he never will I’m sure. I don’t really feel one way or the other about Naomi but the hate for her makes no sense to me. She also was trying to help him find the gift from his kids but could sense he was freaking out. Her gift to him wasn’t that bad either. Logan also was against Naomi to fuck with Kendall he doesn’t actually care about Kendall’s wellbeing he just saw Kendall enjoying himself a bit and didn’t like it.

It’s not like Naomi really needs anything from Kendall either she has her own money and stuff.

Why was the one guy peeing on the phone. I got that he was saying it’s shitty tech but was it Waystar tech or his?

The Greg love to me is funny too. He’s a slimeball. He never cared about any victims he kept papers to advance himself. He’s always trying to work some angle. He’s a fun character to watch usually but he’s a shit person too.

Edited November 29, 2021 by Marley

[Penman61]

17 hours ago, Mannahatta said:

Kendall's birthday party was definitely a very expensive train wreck. I find that his character often gives me a terrible case of 2nd hand embarrassment - to the point where I have to press the pause button on a regular basis so I can take the time to fully cringe.

 

We've had a few decades of cringe comedy in pop culture.

Is Succession our first cringe tragedy?

[Lady S.]

1 minute ago, Marley said:

Why was the one guy peeing on the phone. I got that he was saying it’s shirtty tech but was it Waystar tech or his?

It must have been the Waystar streaming app which they're trying to replace with his.

[caitmcg]

How ironic that when Kendall was railing at Greg about asking Comfrey out, he told him to stop feeding on the family and expecting that they’d hand him everything, as if he’s not guilty of the same thing The Roy siblings are so entitled, and they've grown up with so much they don’t even realize they’re entitled. They’re all coming in at the top and expecting to be handed the keys to Logan's office. That’s also why Shiv was so offended when Logan suggested she work in company management for a couple of years before he’d give her the top position — it’s never once occurred to her that she doesn’t immediately deserve it despite having zero experience in a corporate leadership position. 

Yeah, Roman was particularly nasty this episode, especially to Shiv, but though Roman had actually put in sincere work crafting the Waystar proposal to buy the Skarsgard character’s company she had spent the whole run up to the moment he spoke to Lukas suggesting that he wasn’t competent to spearhead it, mostly so she could take credit for herself if they were able to make the deal work. And he’s so undermined in that family that when he’s up he overcompensates in the most extreme way. They’re all competing for daddy’s approval, and they never expect to have the rug pulled out from under them despite it happening again again. They’re all Charlie Brown to Logan's Lucy holding the football.

33 minutes ago, Kirsty said:

Idk if that was shallow. It was one of a series of birthday disappointments coming back to back. Not that he got a watch, but that the one person who claims to care about him doesn't know him well enough to get him something he would like or something meaningful. There was nothing personal about the gift, that was the disappointing part. It could have been a corporate gift. For someone who's "shit at gifts" Naomi built it up as though it was special. And for Kendall it was one disappointment too many so he couldn't brush it off.

I don’t think he’d have been as cutting in his comments about her gift or as unable to be even fake-gracious about it if he hadn’t been pissed off and frustrated about not finding his kids' gift. As someone else noted, their handmade gift was worth more to him than anything else because it expressed love, and in his misery, nothing else was going to give him any satisfaction that night.

 

[tennisgurl]

That whole party was just pure perfect Kendall, from the reproductive hallway to the petulant fake news articles about his siblings to his goofy song to his breakdown, there is nothing worse then realizing that not only does your party look like an asshole's party, but you are definitely an asshole. It was just all so Kendall, trying so hard to be cool but utterly failing miserably, tons of style but a hallow sad center. It’s like Kendall grew up so surrounding by these trappings of what successful powerful people do that it’s all he can imagine doing to prove how successful and powerful he is, but it just never works for him. Its really a testament to Jeremy Strong that, despite how terrible Kendall can be, I do often end up feeling sorry for him, especially at the end as he was crying over not being able to find the present his kids made for him. He's just so utterly broken as a person, its like he is forever trying to fill the void inside of him but he really has no idea how. What an apt metaphor for his (and the Roy's in general) existence, piles and piles of expensive gifts covering up the one thing of actual substance that no one can find no matter how hard they look. Kendall really does come off like he has done all this in the midst of a huge manic episode, it seemed especially bad when he was frantically tossing presents around, and now it looks like he might be coming down hard. 

Always good to see Alexander Skarsgard pop up, the guy really takes looking bored to a whole new level. Top kid is a really bad look on Roman, he is even more of a smug dick then usual now that he's dad's temporary favorite, he is seriously setting himself up for a massive fall when he messes up or when Logan randomly decides one of the other kids is his favorite again. I really did think that Kendall was going to take a swing at him, and I wouldn't even have blamed him for it. Not that anyone in this family can really throw stones, but holy shit he was projecting truly obscene levels of smug.

I love that Shiv deals with tension by goofy dancing. Good news for Tom, no prison! Bad news, its confirmed that no one, not even his wife, really cares all that much about him or his possible prison time. The person who seemed happiest for him was Greg even after he tore his office apart. 

Connor apparently not only took Roman fishing but also took both his younger brothers camping at some point, which is certainly way more parenting then Logan ever did for his kids. I would really like a bit more backstory on how the kids grew up, it seems like Connor was close with his younger siblings at one point, was even a parental figure towards his much younger brothers and sister, but at some point he isolated himself and has been off doing his own weird thing for ages, I really want to know when he basically split from the family.

I am with everyone else on the Naomi dislike train, she's a massive enabler towards Kendall and seems even worse at handling human interactions then he is at times. A watch? Just a watch? Really? She even opened with "its a terrible gift" like her announcing it made it better, shouldn't a rich person be able to do just a tad bit better? She did at least handle things with Kendall when he was breaking down pretty well.

The only person having even a tiny bit of fun at this shit show of a birthday was Greg, who actually managed to score a date with the girl he likes! Way to go Greg!

Edited November 29, 2021 by tennisgurl

[peachmangosteen]

1 hour ago, Kirsty said:

When Kendall started to cry, and he said "I wish I was..." did anyone else think he was going to say "dead"?

Yes. That's quite obviously what he was thinking. I'm guessing this season will end with Kendall trying to kill himself and then next season nothing will come of it and everything will be exactly as it has been since season 1 lol.

This episode was a great reminder for me of when I initially binged the show last year and thought Roman and Ted were the worst of the worst. Obviously, Logan is the absolute worst, but Roman and Ted have almost no redeeming qualities to me. The only reason they marginally work sometimes is because I like the actors.

I really wanted Shiv to punch Roman. And then I wanted Kendall to do it. I thought for sure someone would and then they didn't and I was disappointed. Someone upthread said they hoped Roman didn't get hit by a car which is funny because I actually was thinking that was gonna happen. I was hoping it would lol.

Shiv was stunning in this episode and her dancing was fun.

What a waste of Alexander Skarsgard. He didn't even look good for fuck's sake!

Connor and Willow have been a bright spot in this season and especially in this ep. Did the actor hurt his arm and they had to write it in?

I have always hated Naomi and the weird way she moves her face and mouth especially, but I actually kinda liked her in this episode. She seemed less horrible and annoying. I actually thought she seemed like she maybe for real cared about Kendall.

I'm not as enamored with Rava as many are, mostly because of her weird smiling, but honestly she seems like maybe the only decent person in this bunch and I kinda just wish she'd disassociate with these people because they are not worth it.

I think Greg is way hotter than Comfry so everyone acting like she was some beauty and he was an ogre was weird. I guess it's just part of how horrible they all are as people. 

Anyway, there are a lot of individual things that still work for me with this show but it's just so boring and stagnant and it's not working as a whole. I just think the writers might have overestimated how long it would be fun to watch horrible people be horrible without every growing or changing or getting any comeuppance.

[Lassus]

6 hours ago, sugarbaker design said:

Not contrary to me, I haven't met Nicholas Braun, I wouldn't know that he isn't acting.

This is an odd thing to say.  I haven't met him either.  Based on a dozen or so interviews, live and otherwise, where he's talking and interacting with other human beings.

[Lassus]

5 hours ago, cardigirl said:

she isn't in control of her addictions

I will grant that I may have forgotten this from the prior two episodes she was in this season, but this certainly didn't happen in THIS episode.

[Ellaria]

2 hours ago, dmc said:

Yes Naomi has money but not two billion.  That being said, I think her interest in Kendall is just that they are two adrift people who cannot get it together.  She is exactly like him, a series of near misses and mishaps.  Both are at the age where people are settled or settling down and neither of them can make that work...

...The saddest part for me was the moment Kendall realized no one was there for him.  I felt awful for him and rage because this is a person both his siblings know has serious problems with addiction and that there is a real chance he could die somewhere of an overdose...yet they continue to treat him like garbage.  Also why Naomi seems like she is there for him, its an empty kind of there.  He truly has no one.  

Perfectly said and I completely agree. Naomi's presence is an empty one. She is there but she can't truly help him. And therefore, he is alone.

2 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

To me, that doesn't contrary to him being an Everyman. As you say, he's never been innocent. When we met him he was a slacker getting high and vomiting at his very simple job. Naturally he would like the easy life that these guys have. He's tempted by the money. He can tell the difference between good and bad champagne having tasted them. But most ordinary people would be--and they would definitely be out to protect themselves, as they should be, since none of these people care about him.

I really do think what makes him the Everyman is his more normal childhood--he has the capacity to enjoy things in life that none of these other people have. He can actually experience things for what they are, like being happy about the girl he likes accepting a date while still admitting it might not go anywhere and that she doesn't think he's god's gift to women. Ordinary people aren't that great.

All of these characters are complex and Greg is no different. He isn't an innocent and he is far from perfect. However, he is an "outsider." He didn't grow up with the amount of money and privilege that the Roys have. He is attracted to their lifestyle and, at times, accepts the level of ruthlessness that goes along with it. I'm still hoping that Greg surprises us...that he will choose to step away from the craziness.

1 hour ago, aghst said:

Just an opinion that it might not be the worst option for Kendall.  He has equity in Waystar but he's got no power there.

Also, arguably, it would be better for his emotional health if he disengaged from the business and the family, kind of like how Connor has no involvement with Waystar.

Of course Connor has nutty ideas since he has so much time on his hands but maybe being a crackpot isn't as emotionally painful as being cockblocked repeatedly by his father and siblings repeatedly.

I was thinking about this, too. It would be much more healthy for Kendall to disengage from the business/family. However, I've seen little to suggest that Kendall knows how to separate himself. He doesn't have an identity outside of the business/family.

I love crazy Connor! And I don't blame him for not giving up his coat. (Yes, I'm aware that Alan Ruck was really injured - rotator cuff, I think.) It is very easy to lose good coats at events like that.

Edited November 29, 2021 by Ellaria Sand

[peachmangosteen]

So, do we know how Alan Ruck injured his arm?

[ahpny]

1 hour ago, RichterChick said:

I find it fascinating that there’s a line Logan seemingly doesn’t want to cross.  He would tell Kendall to sell his shares and fuck off, he'd allow spying on his grandchildren, and Shiv’s letter about Kendall’s mental state, but Logan won’t go public with Kendall’s involvement in the waiter’s death at the end of season 1?  I can’t figure out why he’s holding that back, especially after Kendall stabbed him in the back. 

Whatever Logan's options were at the time, Logan can no longer throw Kendall under the bus on this because Logan was part of the conspiracy to cover it up. Logan is thus personally implicated and well aware that he's personally implicated. He no longer has the leverage that would be needed simply to out Kendall on this. Logan isn't holding back based on some fatherly loyalty, he's just covering his own ass at this point together with Kendall's.

[Carolina Girl]

1 hour ago, caitmcg said:

it’s never once occurred to her that she doesn’t immediately deserve it despite having zero experience in a corporate leadership position. 

And this lack of awareness is why she couldn't and/or didn't anticipate the mockery of the Waystar long-term executives on her assumption as President of the company.  She was completely unqualified for the job and couldn't understand why no one was treating her with deference.  They knew that Roman, for all his faults, had been working within the company and had negotiated other deals.  They also remember how he had that harrowing experience the previous season during the negotiations in the Middle East.

Meanwhile, Shiv blithely waltzes in and believes that everyone will see her as Logan's rightful successor.  They didn't.  Which is why I suspect Logan was NEVER serious about handing over the CEO position to her.  He might have done so if she'd agreed to go and learn the business but when she didn't......I wonder if maybe Logan giving her the President's job was his way of throwing a glass of cold water in her face so she could see how the corporate culture views an "outsider" (even if she IS family).  Sure she secured the settlement with the Sandies, but it involved Board seats, which was the ONE thing Logan didn't want to relinquish.  I don't think he's quite forgiven her for that.

[Ms Blue Jay]

2 hours ago, Lady S. said:

There was a lot of other messed-up stuff going on at that party but I thought it was unfair of Kendall to be the jacket police while going around most of the night wearing a coat over a sweater himself.

What was the jacket thing even about?!  I thought nightclubs forced coat check on us normal people because they don't want us concealing anything and they want to make money and tips off of us at coatcheck.

But why would that matter at a party of millionaires?  Was it just a petty thing about attire and aesthetic?

Edited November 30, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay