S02.E05: Avant-Garde

[chitowngirl]

The designers will work in collaboration with iconic American brand, Levi's, to create a two-look denim collection, with one look being an Avant-Garde denim showstopper. Many of the designers bring their A-game, giving the judges a tough decision while other designers falter and are forced to fight for their lives to avoid elimination.

[raven]

Denim  -and Olivia's gonna miss it

[CraftyHazel]

I was shocked that they let Joshua go and kept Andrea…or On-dray-uh.  I mean, he totally missed the mark, for sure, but hers was so incredibly boring and basic.  He may have  many ideas, but she didn’t have any beyond “oooh, sparkly!”

[azshadowwalker]

Damn. I wanted Andrea to win. That's a jumpsuit I would actually buy. I liked the print of Gary's dress, but I am not sure I want his because that jacket isn't my thing. It looks like a pain in the ass to wear. 

[leighdear]

Aaaahhh!  Too ironic that this episode is a denim challenge, when Olivia the denim-dud has already washed out!  I'm calling that Karma, baby!  

NOBODY could give Lucie a heads-up on the pick up of the seamstress packs?  Or maybe have somebody announce it just a little more loudly?  Almost every task she's involved with is a bit of a disaster.  She keeps using the word "pure" all the time, wtf does it mean?  

Latina Andrea is just too basic to create anything innovative or interesting.  I thought her looks were so juvenile and tween-looking.  She needs to put down the Bedazzler and step back.  Stupid decision to keep her.  

New York Andrea is so entrenched in everything being plus-size, as if being inclusive will magically make all her designs for curvy women more worthy of winning.  It's her "gimmick" with nothing organic or spontaneous, the exact opposite of Avant-Garde for me.  I hated the denim donuts.  Ridiculous. 

OMG, Josh made a Jurassic jacket, with the weird dinosaur frill edging down the jacket sleeves.  Bizarre, and full Nedry.  What the hell?  When he collaborated with Gary, things were great.  Good choice to boot him. 

I want to hug Gary.  And encourage him.  His stuff is just amazing to me.  He killed it and am SO happy for him.  The printed dress under the two-way jacket was my favorite.  And his story was incredible.  His win was so deserved. 

[chitowngirl]

As much of a pill that Ursula is-I would have liked to see her work her”specialty”.  Would she really have created a moment or flamed out (again)?

Edited July 30, 2021 by chitowngirl

[DaphneCat]

2 hours ago, leighdear said:

Aaaahhh!  Too ironic that this episode is a denim challenge, when Olivia the denim-dud has already washed out!  I'm calling that Karma, baby!  

NOBODY could give Lucie a heads-up on the pick up of the seamstress packs?  Or maybe have somebody announce it just a little more loudly?  Almost every task she's involved with is a bit of a disaster.  She keeps using the word "pure" all the time, wtf does it mean?  

Latina Andrea is just too basic to create anything innovative or interesting.  I thought her looks were so juvenile and tween-looking.  She needs to put down the Bedazzler and step back.  Stupid decision to keep her.  

New York Andrea is so entrenched in everything being plus-size, as if being inclusive will magically make all her designs for curvy women more worthy of winning.  It's her "gimmick" with nothing organic or spontaneous, the exact opposite of Avant-Garde for me.  I hated the denim donuts.  Ridiculous. 

OMG, Josh made a Jurassic jacket, with the weird dinosaur frill edging down the jacket sleeves.  Bizarre, and full Nedry.  What the hell?  When he collaborated with Gary, things were great.  Good choice to boot him. 

I want to hug Gary.  And encourage him.  His stuff is just amazing to me.  He killed it and am SO happy for him.  The printed dress under the two-way jacket was my favorite.  And his story was incredible.  His win was so deserved. 

I really don't think Olivia would have done something all that great - even if it was a denim challenge.

They really emphasized to US that there were several announcements about the seamstress pick-up.   I thought she'd at least get a little ding because everything - including the "avant-garde" piece (which was really just oversized - not actually avant-garde) were just so basic.

They really only kept Latin Andrea because she made that speech about her passion.  None of her pieces were anything exciting - she should have been the one to get the boot.

The judges were completely right that if Josh had left the frill off his red coat would have been a great look.  It looked like a really nice coat.

[dleighg]

4 hours ago, leighdear said:

want to hug Gary.  And encourage him.  His stuff is just amazing to me.  He killed it and am SO happy for him.  The printed dress under the two-way jacket was my favorite

I was surprised that the runway model never opened the coat to show the dress underneath the avant garde dress. 

Edited July 30, 2021 by dleighg

[NYGirl]

I LOVE Gary so much.  His looks are amazing.  I'm so glad he won this week.

However, I was rooting for Andrea NY because I wanted so much to buy her second look :(

I wasn't crazy about her sleeves on the avant grade.

[akg]

39 minutes ago, DaphneCat said:

They really only kept Latin Andrea because she made that speech about her passion.  None of her pieces were anything exciting - she should have been the one to get the boot.

I kept waiting for someone to mention that her circus jacket was exactly the same as one from her own wardrobe that she wears in a lot of talking head shots. Including in this episode.

39 minutes ago, DaphneCat said:

They really emphasized to US that there were several announcements about the seamstress pick-up

Even if I thought the show had set Sophie up or that the other competitors owed her a heads up, her behavior on the second night killed any sympathy I had for her. She'd just missed the deadline the day before, everyone in the studio was helping get her package together and on the rack, and she still came close to the cut off.

 

Amazon's page for this episode is here. I know it's how these things work but it's still a little strange to see Gary's jacket listed as Levi's Upside-Downable Trucker Jacket and have to scroll down to the bottom half of the page to get a mention of Gary himself.

[dleighg]

7 minutes ago, akg said:

Amazon's page for this episode is here.

so you can't buy the cute dress underneath?

[akg]

1 minute ago, dleighg said:

so you can't buy the cute dress underneath?

It's there, next to the jacket. Here's it's own page.

 

[nb360]

Does any one know if the designer receives all or just part of the profits for the sale of their clothes? The jacket is $200. I'm curious how much goes to Gary, how much to Amazon, and how much to the producers.

(Though, of course, I realize the "name recognition" is it's own form of compensation.)

[Straycat80]

I’m always confused by avant-garde. Some looks like NY Andrea, Josh, and Raf’s were out there and probably hard to wear. Poor Andrea model could barely walk normal.  I’m glad Gary won, I like him and liked both of his looks.

Although Josh’s were fugly and deserved to go home, I am amazed how Lucie and Columbia Andrea keep squeaking by to safe. Lucie is so unorganized and her designs were boring. Andrea’s were also boring and basic. 

[TexasGal]

I wonder if the male judge does the opposite of the usual fashion advice and when he thinks his look is done he ADDS one more thing?  He looks like a clown to me.

I love Gary so much!  I was so worried he wasn’t going to win this one with that beautiful print dress, that I actually cheated and went online to see what design was being sold.  Whew!

Bedazzled Andrea’s “avant-garde” look I thought was Sgt Pepper or Michael Jackson when she drew it, and it didn’t even end up being a great knock off of either.  So bad.

[Mabinogia]

6 minutes ago, TexasGal said:

I love Gary so much!  I was so worried he wasn’t going to win this one with that beautiful print dress, that I actually cheated and went online to see what design was being sold.  Whew!

I cheat and look to see who got kicked off every ep because I can't handle the thought they might accidentally let Gary go. If they do, I ain't watchin' it. His dress has seriously got me considering making a purchase. I absolutely love the pattern of it. 

I think his eye for pattern and habit of making his own fabrics puts him leaps and bounds ahead of the others, all of whose work I could easily find in any mall store. I did like NY Andrea's sleeves on her avant garde dress, and I quite liked the pant jumpsuit? was it a one piece? I assume so, but either way, I liked it. Nothing else struck me as interesting or worthwhile. 

I'd be happy if we just whittle it down to Gary and NY Andrea and just get on with their fashion shows already. I have no need to see more from anyone else. At least things are moving quickly.

[Wicked]

I love Gary. I'm rooting for him

[leighdear]

One thing that overwhelmingly annoyed me about NY Andrea's "accessible" look. 

It was a denim jumpsuit, off-the-shoulder, with a fitted bodice and wide legs with very deep cuffs.  Now when she turned around to walk back up the runway, we saw that there was a looooong back zipper that went from half-way down her butt crack, all the way up to the back neck.  

How in the hell do you pull up that zipper by yourself, and how do you go to the bathroom without help?  Seriously.  

You could probably get that zipper about halfway up, but SO hard to get it all the way.  You just don't put back zippers in jumpsuits, especially for plus sizes.  This was the look that was supposed to be wearable.  I call it a Fail. 

Edited July 31, 2021 by leighdear

[DaphneCat]

1 hour ago, leighdear said:

One thing that overwhelmingly annoyed me about NY Andrea's "accessible" look. 

It was a denim jumpsuit, off-the-shoulder, with a fitted bodice and wide legs with very deep cuffs.  Now when she turned around to walk back up the runway, we saw that there was a looooong back zipper that went from half-way down her butt crack, all the way up to the back neck.  

How in the hell do you pull up that zipper by yourself, and how do you go to the bathroom without help?  Seriously.  

You could probably get that zipper about halfway up, but SO hard to get it all the way.  You just don't put back zippers in jumpsuits, especially for plus sizes.  This was the look that was supposed to be wearable.  I call it a Fail. 

I hate how the judges always talk about how wearable a jumpsuit is.  Do these people never go to the bathroom?  The idea of getting at least half undressed and then having to manage all that dangling fabric (god forbid it have long sleeves too) while trying to do your business is pretty much the opposite of easy to wear.  And one with a zipper up the back?  Only a contortionist could wear that.

[leighdear]

8 hours ago, DaphneCat said:

I hate how the judges always talk about how wearable a jumpsuit is.  Do these people never go to the bathroom?  The idea of getting at least half undressed and then having to manage all that dangling fabric (god forbid it have long sleeves too) while trying to do your business is pretty much the opposite of easy to wear.  And one with a zipper up the back?  Only a contortionist could wear that.

Precisely.  And trying to keep all that fabric OFF the bathroom floor without it all crumpling up and creasing?  Bitch, please!    *ROFL*  I'm an 80's girl, so of course I had jumpsuits back in the day!  But they were NEVER worn when we were out cocktailing or someplace with sketchy bathrooms.   They were "lookable", not "wearable"!

 

Edited July 31, 2021 by leighdear

[seacliffsal]

Andrea NY seems to have issues with fitting the bodice of her plus-size, oops, curvy model (I am both plus-size and curvy).  It just always seems like the top is getting ready to fall down.

I often think the judges don't really get avant garde (sp) as they always talk about the wearability of the outfits when that isn't the intention.

I can't believe that they sent Josh home but kept Andrea S.  Oh well.

[jabRI]

On 7/30/2021 at 3:08 PM, DaphneCat said:

The judges were completely right that if Josh had left the frill off his red coat would have been a great look.  It looked like a really nice coat.

Was that based on Tim's advice?

[DaphneCat]

1 hour ago, jabRI said:

Was that based on Tim's advice?

Tim said that if he was going to do the frill - don't half-ass it.  Do something dramatic.  But he didn't actually tell him to do the frill.

[jabRI]

OK,  thanks for clarifying.  Not that they have to take his advice all the time, often they don't.  

[NYGirl]

49 minutes ago, jabRI said:

OK,  thanks for clarifying.  Not that they have to take his advice all the time, often they don't.  

And I've also seen them take his advice and then get eliminated anyway!  His advice is not always right (shockingly)

[leighdear]

Maybe if the frill had been in the same fabric as the coat.  The coat itself was fine, but that weird, almost transparent fabric looked almost like the top fins that run down the backbone of a fish.  Just too weird and disconnected.  

[akg]

1 hour ago, NYGirl said:

And I've also seen them take his advice and then get eliminated anyway!  His advice is not always right (shockingly)

I'm always annoyed (here and on PR) when the judges hate something Tim recommended but he doesn't take ownership of his advice. Yes, the designer could ignore him but, since he's the 'expert', that's always considered a huge risk. 

[SemiCharmedLife]

In Josh's original sketch, the detail seemed to be more layered flat along the top of the shoulder and sleeve.  But, when he was making it, he had it standing up and then Tim suggested he really emphasize it. It really did remind me of a type of dinosaur.

I guess we learned why the judges have the "changing mind" routine...so Andrea can say how passionate she is and they can all let her stay to (not) sew another day.

 

[Foxglove]

I think that overall, Tim gives good advice. He was an instructor at the Parsons School of Design for 25 years, and he knows about fashion, construction, fabrics, etc.  To me, it's the judging that lacks credibility. Heidi's main critiques are "I would wear that," "my husband would look cute in that," "I already have one of those in my closet," and "I like that it's red." Winnie also bases her critiques on her own tastes, and half of the time Jeremy looks like an overgrown tween who is on his way to the skate park. Of course at the end of the day, we all like clothes based on our own tastes, but I do wish the judges brought more expertise to their comments. I would find it more interesting if they could analyze the cut of a garment, the fabric choice, why the fit isn't working properly, what details needed finessing, etc. 

[CraftyHazel]

 I really disliked Josh’s avant-garde look.  I had envisioned the ruffle/frill being full and lush, and somehow I thought he meant for it to go down one arm only?  I also thought the white fabric he used for it was too much of a contrast to the red coat, and it looked cheap as well.  Still, I’d have kept him over Princess Sparkle Andrea.

[TVbitch]

Tim did tell Josh to go big with that fringe, but Josh does have eyes and should have been able to see that it looked absurd. 

I think Heidi is keeping Andrea around cuz junior wear and sparkles are her taste. 

[raven]

Just watching now.  I would buy Gary's jacket but it's sold out.  Love, love that jacket.   I also enjoyed the intro that Gary gave to the judges.  It could have come off pretentious, but he's Gary and I can just picture him rehearsing it.  Go Gary!

Hated Brooklyn Andra's accessible look.  I have a jumpsuit bias (hate them) and I really thought it was ugly.  I liked her avant garde look except for the tassels, which I thought looked dumb.

Levis, Levis, Levis!  I cracked up when Heidi and Tim were talking about going on the ferris wheel right before the show and they were talking Levis!  I know they gotta mention the brand and all but it was not exactly spontaneous, lol.

Well, bye Joshua!  I would have liked his avant garde look better if the frills were made of a different material, maybe.  I kind of knew what he was going for but that material against the red - it didn't look like it belonged.

On to the next episode.

[christie]

I'm surprised they gave Joshua the boot - it's not that I liked his designs, it's just that I think they were better than Columbian Andrea's; whilst the frill on his coat did remind me of fish fins, I agree that the coat without the frill would have been nice. I liked both of Gary's looks and NY Andrea's runway look. Everything else, I thought was boring. I was surprised that everyone, except for NY Andrea, did coats or jackets.

[Mabinogia]

9 hours ago, christie said:

I'm surprised they gave Joshua the boot - it's not that I liked his designs, it's just that I think they were better than Columbian Andrea's

He at least had more range. I think both Andrea's are a bit one note. I suppose it's they would say they are being true to their style but IDK, nothing either of them has done has even really stuck with me. That dragon coat will stick with me for a long time, even if it was horrible. At least he took a risk, and it was meant to be an avant garde challenge. I would have kept him over her just because I would at least be somewhat curious what else he does. 

[christie]

18 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

He at least had more range. I think both Andrea's are a bit one note. I suppose it's they would say they are being true to their style but IDK, nothing either of them has done has even really stuck with me. That dragon coat will stick with me for a long time, even if it was horrible. At least he took a risk, and it was meant to be an avant garde challenge. I would have kept him over her just because I would at least be somewhat curious what else he does. 

Exactly

[DaphneCat]

On 8/2/2021 at 9:08 PM, Mabinogia said:

He at least had more range. I think both Andrea's are a bit one note. I suppose it's they would say they are being true to their style but IDK, nothing either of them has done has even really stuck with me. That dragon coat will stick with me for a long time, even if it was horrible. At least he took a risk, and it was meant to be an avant garde challenge. I would have kept him over her just because I would at least be somewhat curious what else he does. 

Yes.  He kept repeating "I took a risk."  That is what avant-garde should be, taking risks and doing something not seen on the runway.  You shouldn't be able to completely fail the assignment by not producing anything out of the ordinary and then stay because you gave some stupid speech about having passion.

[qtpye]

On 8/4/2021 at 2:14 AM, DaphneCat said:

Yes.  He kept repeating "I took a risk."  That is what avant-garde should be, taking risks and doing something not seen on the runway.  You shouldn't be able to completely fail the assignment by not producing anything out of the ordinary and then stay because you gave some stupid speech about having passion.

 

On 8/2/2021 at 9:08 PM, Mabinogia said:

He at least had more range. I think both Andrea's are a bit one note. I suppose it's they would say they are being true to their style but IDK, nothing either of them has done has even really stuck with me. That dragon coat will stick with me for a long time, even if it was horrible. At least he took a risk, and it was meant to be an avant garde challenge. I would have kept him over her just because I would at least be somewhat curious what else he does. 

I bought my daughter a sewing kit when she was 9 where she could make her own clothes for dolls.

I kid you not, the first outfit she made looked similar to Andrea's complete with a mullet skirt, a mishmash of too many fabrics, and sparkle glitter.

I think Andrea is getting a bit of pretty privilege because there is no way she deserved to stay over Josh. Her jacket was not fresh in the least, heck Michael Jackson wore it in the 90"s.

Her speech about passion was also not that touching.

Edited August 5, 2021 by qtpye

[Pepper Mostly]

On 7/30/2021 at 10:00 AM, CraftyHazel said:

I was shocked that they let Joshua go and kept Andrea…or On-dray-uh.  I mean, he totally missed the mark, for sure, but hers was so incredibly boring and basic.  He may have  many ideas, but she didn’t have any beyond “oooh, sparkly!”

She is TERRIBLE. I cannot believe she hangs on and on, every week, while better designers get the ax. 

On 7/31/2021 at 7:46 PM, DaphneCat said:

Tim said that if he was going to do the frill - don't half-ass it.  Do something dramatic.  But he didn't actually tell him to do the frill.

Tim said "make it exuberant!". And frilled lizard was Joshua's idea of exuberant. 

That said, I'd prefer to see Joshua to Andrea. 

[Grischa]

Losing Joshua over Andrea was ridiculous, his lizard frills didn't work but at least he tried to make an avant grade look, Andrea made clothes and that's what she has done in every episode so far. Her stuff is wearable and there's a market for it but it's not exciting and doesn't make for good tv.

Joshua also won 2 out of the previous 3 episodes (I don't count episode 4 because it was just an extended judging session for episode 3), does that mean nothing? They have a designer who has shown that he can do what they're looking for and tried to do this episode's assignment vs. a designer who has done nothing impressive so far and didn't try to do this episode's assignment.

Sure, in fashion one day you're in and the next day you're out (wrong franchise, I know) but track record should be taken into account.

Edited August 5, 2021 by Grischa

[leighdear]

I believe NY Andrea getting the pass because she's the only one including plus-size models.  I guarantee she'll have a plus-size woman on the runway.

I'm over using the word curvy as an equal substitute for plus size.  I'm a a very curvy size 10.  10 for hips, but a 6 waist in full skirts and I wear a 14 shirt or blouse.  I'm not a body shamer in any way, but standard sizes are used for a reason.   And curvy does not always mean plus.  But that's exactly how NY Andrea is using the term. 

YMMV, but I think her looks are lackluster and basic.  But she's inclusive, so that got her to the finals.  Her talent is nowhere near the caliber of Gary.   

Edited August 5, 2021 by leighdear

[djsunyc]

On 8/5/2021 at 2:52 AM, Grischa said:

Losing Joshua over Andrea was ridiculous, his lizard frills didn't work but at least he tried to make an avant grade look, Andrea made clothes and that's what she has done in every episode so far. Her stuff is wearable and there's a market for it but it's not exciting and doesn't make for good tv.

Joshua also won 2 out of the previous 3 episodes (I don't count episode 4 because it was just an extended judging session for episode 3), does that mean nothing? They have a designer who has shown that he can do what they're looking for and tried to do this episode's assignment vs. a designer who has done nothing impressive so far and didn't try to do this episode's assignment.

Sure, in fashion one day you're in and the next day you're out (wrong franchise, I know) but track record should be taken into account.

when the show has these guest judges/sponsors like levi's, where it's about what they can sell, it's the plain sellable looks that usually win or at least don't get eliminate.  if joshua's accessible look was good, he wouldnt have been eliminated.

Edited August 7, 2021 by djsunyc

[snarktini]

On 7/30/2021 at 9:44 AM, leighdear said:

I want to hug Gary.  And encourage him.  His stuff is just amazing to me.  He killed it and am SO happy for him.  The printed dress under the two-way jacket was my favorite.  And his story was incredible.  His win was so deserved. 

Absolutely. As far as I'm concerned, he's the only one in this competition who is bringing something genuinely new to fashion. His point of view is conceptual and artistic and inventive! I especially love his use of textiles and geometric constructions. Although it's because of that he won't realistically be a "global brand" / sold on Amazon, unfortunately. But I'm rooting for him! I hope he finds his way back professionally.

 

[staphdude]

I love the idea of a avant garde challenge but the nature of that task so often means it falls short. For the more utilitarian challenges the time fram works but when exploring the cutting edge of fashion I think you need more time to adequately develop an idea. In the timeframe they are given we get something like what was presented ...occasionally interesting but rarely pushing boundaries

 

[Quilt Fairy]

On 8/1/2021 at 5:19 PM, raven said:

I also enjoyed the intro that Gary gave to the judges.  It could have come off pretentious, but he's Gary and I can just picture him rehearsing it.  Go Gary!

When he stood up before the judges, at first I thought he was going to have a Zen meditation moment.  Then I thought he had written crib notes on his hands so he could remember what he wanted to say.  And with Gary, you know either one of those things could happen.  

[Zonk]

On 7/31/2021 at 9:16 PM, seacliffsal said:

I often think the judges don't really get avant garde (sp) as they always talk about the wearability of the outfits when that isn't the intention.

I said multiple times out loud "it's avant garde! [what did you expect?]".

Seriously, how do these people qualify to be judges? Really bad taste and no idea what any of this means? Winnie Harlow seems to be the only one who at least half way knows what she's talking about (but the make-up around her mouth is just stupid and boring). But how can you not know that avant garde doesn't have to be wearable? They also seemed to not react well to the more out there pieces and for avant garde those were still really tame.

How come I, somebody who knows nothing about fashion, know more about it than these judges?

Edited September 5, 2021 by Zonk

[Omeletsmom]

On 9/3/2021 at 12:48 AM, Zonk said:

Winnie Harlow seems to be the only one who at least half way knows what she's talking about (but the make-up around her mouth is just stupid and boring). 

Are you referring to her vitiligo?  That is just her skin.  

[Zonk]

11 minutes ago, Omeletsmom said:

Are you referring to her vitiligo?  That is just her skin.  

It is? My bad then. I thought it was makeup. Actually thought it was kinda interesting at first, but then thought it was uncreative and boring to do the same thing all the time. But if that is just her normal skin colour, of course she wouldn't change it. Again, my bad.

Edited September 5, 2021 by Zonk