S12.E18: Atlanta Reunion Part 2

[Sycophant4Lease]

Anyone else get the feeling that "Billy Bad Ass, St. Christopher" was very relieved that it was Paige and a producer following him outside, and NOT Pastor (former hood thug) "Sharpie hair alignment" Antoine?

For all of his boasting about "meet me in the parking lot".  He sure as hell went straight to his car.  He probably already had his finger on the "Start" button.  Looking to see who's coming.

He would've truly had some "hands laid on him".  That Pastor was seconds away from "keeping it real".  Notice how calmly he said, "You gonna stop cussing me."

Wide hips/Big chest wanted no part of that wolf ticket he was selling.

Edited May 28, 2021 by Sycophant4Lease

[lids]

I was waiting for Jake and Hailey’s segment and they did not disappoint! They are both immature and emotionally delayed.

Absolutely nobody: 

Jacob: I’ll take a polygraph test!

Hailey: Me too! Strap me up!

Just ridiculous. But I realized this time that both Hailey and Jake were trying. Their love languages are so different, they didn’t even realize the other person was trying. Hailey clearly has a love language that revolves around interaction - acts of service and probably some words of affirmation in there. That’s why she kept planning all those sports dates and talking about her trips and things. Jakes language is physical touch. When Kevin asked Jake why he didn’t try to romance Hailey, Jake replied, “she wouldn’t let me!” As in, she wouldn’t let him romantically touch her. He keeps thinking Hailey’s not trying because the physical aspects not there, but Hailey was trying - just in her love language. Pretty much they both suck, but I do think Hailey at least went outside of her comfort zone to try more. 

Jacob’s outfit made me laugh so hard. It was like he was saying screw you to all his haters. It was right out of a “How to Dress Fashionably Gen Z” with the ripped skinny jeans. He had on his tux jacket from the wedding. And because everyone was saying he doesn’t own sneakers, he wore some bright red tennis shoes! Suck on that haterzzz. (It came off more like sad grampa though.)

[Hangin Out]

16 hours ago, Straycat80 said:

These experts have a ‘great track record’? WTF? 
 

you know those stringy things that kids used to have hanging from their bicycle handles? Dr. Vivi is wearing them as earrings. 

Her earrings look like those street scrubbers that go on a street cleaning truck.

[Mrs. Button]

Apparently I'm in the minority because I was cheering for Kevin the whole time. Jake was already playing the victim — "oh, this is my last chance EVER!" — BEFORE the wedding. I still don't know where he got the idea that men are washed up at 40, are his ovaries drying up? 

Then he turns every interaction into the You Don't Get Me Comedy Hour and Let's Visit Jake's Gut, with special appearances by Jake is Angry Over Many, Many Slights.  Every time one is addressed, another appears, offset by guest appearances of Forced Hug Guilt. 

But yes, it ALL would have been completely different if only she had worn the bracelet, or thanked him adequately, or kept it in the same state, or hugged him, or invited him for drinks, whatever. He always finds something to whine about while making it the other person's fault and refusing to see how they may have played into it, ie, a toxic nightmare. It comes down to being right and in control. Unfortunately, once someone (male or female) is skeeved out like Haley obviously was, there's no going back unless you can actually start over on a fresh, grudge-free page. But that can't happen when one person is already keeping score.

You can't guilt or force someone to like you, which was Kevin's point. Ever heard of charm? It's sad because I do think Jake has a lot of positive qualities — you could see that with the guys — but all this nonsense overshadowed it. FWIW I don't particularly like or dislike Haley — I think she is not suited to marriage, which is something women get a lot of grief about — I just think he needs therapy and they were really mismatched.

After the experiment doesn't work out, more mature people say things like: I wasn't always my best self; I made mistakes; there were definitely times I could have been more patient or compassionate; I learned stuff about me I can work on — but not Jake. He's *STILL* revisiting the stupid bracelet. I get it, his ego was wounded ... but you are doomed to a dysfunctional, never-ending Groundhog Day if you insist you acted perfectly at all times & instances. 

Edited May 27, 2021 by Mrs. Button

[Crashcourse]

Frankly, I'm not even sure the guys even liked him that much.  I think they were just being nice at the reunion.   Maybe I missed it but did any of them ask where he was that night when Haley went downstairs and hung out with them?   After her showdown with Jake later that night, I think Haley was wary of him and just played along until the end of the nightmare.

Some people might see Haley as cold, but Jake has a chip on his shoulder from being rejected in the past and he refuses to acknowledge that.  I think Kevin saw right through him.  

[Hangin Out]

3 hours ago, Retired at last said:

LOL - thank you, @Ilovepie. I was coming on to write exactly what you did. I was so angry, I even yelled at my TV a few times, which, for me, means it is time to walk away from this show. I was so sick and tired of Paige running out to follow that bastard to the car and telling him how great he was doing. ENOUGH! Then to have Kevin Frazier, who I had always liked in this role, totally sucking up to her so hard I am surprised there was any air left in the room. She may THINK she won the martyred saint award, but even if she had not heard some of the things on the clips she never saw, she still had enough of him to know that she needed to get out. And, no, she is not a pillar of strength and class. I am glad she is in therapy, but I will be truly happy if I never have to see her smug face again. (But, I will say that with her hair that way and off her face, this was the prettiest I have seen her face. The dress was horrendous, and no way a dress a "nice, Christian girl" would wear on national TV.)

I was also yelling when Kevin bought in to fake Haley and attacked Jake. Jake was clearly done and didn't really help himself, but he didn't care. Haley clearly knows how to be charming when the cameras are there. I am SO glad that Drs. P and V said that she was truly a cold, cold person. Pastor Cal knows nothing. 

I don't think Erik and Virginia will make it to a year. I don't think they should pick couples for couples' cam until they have been married at least a full year. They were faking the whole time and trying to pretend they were the best love story ever. Not.

Bri and Vinnie will be fine and are adorable. Boring to me, but just a normal couple, so good for them.

I am also glad that Clara and Ryan are together and I think will be fine. I am happy they are not camera whores and are even staying off social media. If they wanted their privacy that much, this was not the right venue for them, but I think they are fine.

This whole season was awful and had so much filler crap that I really don't think I will watch the next season and see how I feel with a season off.

I'm sorry - if those experts were ALL totally bamboozled by Chris, then they need to find a new job. We all could tell even from the scenes BEFORE the wedding when he insisted that she MUST be beautiful. They should have pulled the plug then before they were married, since this was obviously a "different" Chris than the "catch" they selected. And I still don't believe they did the selections at all - all production driven.

ETA- I think the fact that there are so few posts speaks volumes as to how this season was dragged out for far too long. Whether it was just the Paige and Chris crap or the fact that, generally, the couples weren't interesting or likable (except maybe 2), I think that people dropped off a while back.

Yes.  I don’t think I could watch next time.  Doesn’t look too inviting.  Kevin Frazior turned into a wimp.  All bullshit.  Xo to all  Hangin Out .. formerly Silver Bells.

[Hangin Out]

18 hours ago, LennieBriscoe said:

And with the men, Kevin STILL persisted in saying, "A little more romance. You know, I think you could have won

Is Kevin delusional all of a sudden? If Jake would have made advances to Ice Queen, she would have called the cops.   From “Hangin Out”, formerly “Silver Bells”.

[spunky]

For someone who wanted to fight so badly, Chris wasted no time getting into his car. I have no doubt in my mind that if he really wanted to Pastor Dwight could have laid hands on Chris.  Heck I think even Pastor Cal could take him. 

Dr. Pepper needs to take responsibility for insisting that Paige and Chris were a good match,  even though Pastor Cal was against it. They all need to take responsibility for the Haley and Jake match.

I'm disappointed in Kevin. He should have grilled Chris instead of Jake.  

Edited May 28, 2021 by spunky

[Haute Messe]

17 hours ago, Crashcourse said:

Sure, it can be applied to everyone but he was the one suggesting that he was so much fun or whatever.  I didn't hear anyone else suggesting that.

I think they just never liked each other.

The only person that didn't seem to like him was Haley. Everyone else liked him and the guys all said he was great and had a great sense of humour. 

Kevin was unjustifiably hammering at him the whole show. Even POS Chris didn't get that treatment.

[pdlinda]

6 hours ago, Spectator said:

These two clearly planned how they would try to gloss over or completely undo their nonsense from the regular season during the reunion. They were so scripted. But I did get a kick out of it when faced with a Sophie’s Choice moment, Virginia said she’d keep her dog over Erik. That clearly was way off-script! Sorry Erik, I guess you’re still not her number 1...even Rocky ranks higher. 

Just a thought....Virginia will use this "hiatus" period to cash in any way possible on the MAFS payoffs (Couples Cam and anything remunerative from social media), and create a stash of $$$ (her own) that she can use to re-establish herself after the glow of the reality TV recognition reaches its peak and starts to recede.  She, along with Vinny (not even mentioning the radioactive chris) are to two most financially insecure among the group this year (I know they portray Vinnie as a major entrepreneurial heavy hitter; however, I don't believe it).

[Crashcourse]

1 hour ago, lizajane said:

The only person that didn't seem to like him was Haley. Everyone else liked him and the guys all said he was great and had a great sense of humour. 

Well we can agree to disagree about that because I thought the guys were just being polite and didn't want to say anything more.

[qtpye]

8 hours ago, Booger666 said:

He’s a grifter and doesn’t have that much money.  We saw them filmed for 8 weeks and only saw two suits.  Dude can’t even get credit at the Men’s Warehouse.  Everything is leased or borrowed will be repo’d if it hasn’t already.

It's crazy how the most broke-ass people always have to be the most flashy.

7 hours ago, Spectator said:

So Virginia continued to try to rewrite history in this episode. Last week she said her drinking was never a problem and never would be a problem. Um, ok. Never mind that we all saw it. We all saw the impact it had on her physically and the problems her drinking caused her relationship. But according to Virginia there’s “nothing to see here”. Sure. For sure (thanks Ryan for my new, widely applicable MAFS quote for the season). And it’s too bad the experts didn’t address her drinking at all in their expert-only session. If nothing else, having a “professional” acknowledge the problem might have helped her to start to recognize it, which we all know is the first step toward recovery...she’s in full denial. Her drinking was a big issue throughout the season so the experts not mentioning it at the reunion left a huge elephant in the room. But I digress...

 

Anyway, back to the point...this episode the spin continued as she tried to walk back her comments about passing out drunk on guys couches. Now she’s saying she never said she planned to continue that behavior when married?? Um, yes you did Virginia. You said exactly that. You guys fought about it, with Erik continuing to repeat his mantra of the season: “but you’re maaaaaarrrrried...”. Uggghhhhh. Did she forget these arguments were all filmed??? At the time she didn’t even seem to comprehend why Erik couple possibly have an issue with her behavior since they weren’t “random couches”. And she looked totally floored when Pastor Cal said that he would not be ok with it if his wife were doing that. She just didn’t get it. And the fact that Erik even brought it up to Pastor Cal shows that he and Virginia had had previous disagreements about it in the past. But even in front of the expert, she was digging her heels in the sand, insisting this behavior was totally fine regardless of marriage. But now, at the reunion, she is saying she never said that? Ahhh, ok. Sure. You never said it. You guys never fought about it. You guys are the perfect couple. Sorry, I forgot. 
 

These two clearly planned how they would try to gloss over or completely undo their nonsense from the regular season during the reunion. They were so scripted. But I did get a kick out of it when faced with a Sophie’s Choice moment, Virginia said she’d keep her dog over Erik. That clearly was way off-script! Sorry Erik, I guess you’re still not her number 1...even Rocky ranks higher. 

 

5 hours ago, Alexander Pope said:

I agree completely--there is major whitewashing going on with Erik and Virginia, and I suspect that is part of how they are making their transition to Couples Cam.  I was really surprised that they were chosen for that.

Yes, I was annoyed that she was not called out on it. She insisted that she was going to continue her party lifestyle, which included passing out on guy friend's couches if she was too drunk to drive. This particularly makes no sense, since we all know Erik has money and she could easily call an Uber, which she probably could not afford before marriage.

Or more to the point...she probably went drinking most nights and before marriage could not afford to call an Uber every time she got too drunk (which was probably a lot).

 

1 hour ago, spunky said:

For someone who wanted to fight so badly, Chris wasted no time getting into his car. I have no doubt in my mind that if he really wanted to Pastor Dwight could have laid hands on Chris.  Heck I think even Pastor Cal could take him. 

Dr. Pepper needs to take responsibility for insisting that Paige and Chris were a good match,  even though Pastor Cal was against it. They all nerd to take responsibility for the Haley and Jake match.

I'm disappointed in Kevin. He should have grilled Chris instead of Jake.  

Chris and Pastor Dwight have made me appreciate Pastor Cal's fashion sense.

Say what you want about the man, Pastor Cal's suits fit impeccably and the man wears socks. Not to mention there is not one grandma brooch to be found in his whole wardrobe. 

[Crashcourse]

I wasn't too impressed from the preview I saw of the Houston couples.  

[Booger666]

2 minutes ago, qtpye said:

It's crazy how the most broke-ass people always have to be the most flashy.

7 hours ago, Spectator said:

Say whaaat?!  😆 

[bichonblitz]

5 hours ago, Hangin Out said:

The bracelet was telling.  When a man goes out to pick a gift for his bride, he expects her to wear it for the vows.  She put it away like it was nothing.  That was rude and hateful

That was before she even met him! It shows the kind of person she really is.  Stone cold Haley is a piece of work. 

Edited May 27, 2021 by bichonblitz

[TzuShih]

13 hours ago, ECM1231 said:

LOVED, LOVED LOVED that the other men ALL like Jake and think he's a stand up guy. They also ALL said he  is the FUNNIEST of the bunch.

 

I don't mean to try and psychoanalyze Haley (who I never met, or know anything about, or who may be a very sweet your woman), but I'm in agreement with a quote I recently read:  "You can tell how smart people are by what they laugh at."  I was continually surprised at how many times Haley said re Jake, "I don't get his humor."  Even the clip they played where Jake expounded upon Haley's "attractive kneecaps," -- I immediately chuckled at the 'fun' sense of play he was attempting to have with Haley.  I've always loved dark, dry, droll humor, and I tend to find it such a PLUS in relationships.  But, each to his/her own, I guess.  (P.S. Haley, when asked by Kevin,  said she likes "big personalities."  So I suspect that "droll and/or understated" are just not her thing.)

[Crashcourse]

Team Haley here.  I'm glad she got out of this mess and I wish her well. 

[bichonblitz]

6 hours ago, Crashcourse said:

Frankly, I'm not even sure the guys even liked him that much.  I think they were just being nice at the reunion. 

They like him. I follow Erik on IG, he's very fond of Jake. They are buddies. 

[Crashcourse]

13 minutes ago, bichonblitz said:

They like him. I follow Erik on IG, he's very fond of Jake. They are buddies. 

Well, that's just Erik and I'm not surprised.  He can bitch about his drunken wife and Jake can bitch about Haley.  

Edited May 28, 2021 by Crashcourse

[red12]

Kevin, you don't know whether you have slept with a woman who hated you.

You know whether you have slept with a woman who told you she hated you.

[qtpye]

There were some very sexists remarks in this episode:

• Women who do not want children are just confused and need more stable situations to change their minds?
• Women who sleep with men are "trying" and never sleep with men they hate?

Yes, people can change their mind about having children but you would never say that a guy who does not wants children is just confused.

it is irresponsible to pair someone who does not want children with someone who wants children immediately, regardless of gender.

There is a thing called hate sex. Monet from the first season said she and Vaughn had plenty of hate sex. Also, was Chris trying when he had sex with Paige even though he did not like her face?

[Rae Spellman]

8 hours ago, Mrs. Button said:

Jake was already playing the victim — "oh, this is my last chance EVER!" — BEFORE the wedding. I still don't know where he got the idea that men are washed up at 40, are his ovaries drying up? 

Perhaps Jake thinks 40 is old in single man years and some even younger age is old in single woman years.  While plenty of women are with men a decade older than them I wondered if Jake wanted a younger woman but would have done better with a woman closer to his own age. 

6 hours ago, Crashcourse said:

I thought the guys were just being polite and didn't want to say anything more.

This could be it. Or, the types of interactions they had with Jake were shorter and entirely different that the types of interactions Haley and Jake had. 

6 hours ago, qtpye said:

Chris and Pastor Dwight have made me appreciate Pastor Cal's fashion sense.

Say what you want about the man, Pastor Cal's suits fit impeccably and the man wears socks. Not to mention there is not one grandma brooch to be found in his whole wardrobe. 

Yes, he's a handsome older guy. I'd argue better looking than any of the guys this season.

[Yeah No]

15 hours ago, humbleopinion said:

Jake built a high and thick wall when she didn’t like him from Day2 onward.

He stewed and had a constant loop in his head that she despised him.

Jacob truly hates Haley with the intensity of a thousand suns, his feelings were very wounded.

Hales was stone cold, viscerally repulsed by him but doesn't hate him.

She just wants to put him in her past.

Miserable, horrible fail…terrible job as usual “experts”

Jake those shredded leggings you wore to the Reunion are a fashion don’t, the red kicks, blue tux jacket from Season 11’s grooms were unfortunate.

 Want updates of Jake’s fangirls (especially the agressive slutty ones) throwing themselves at him...pictures please.

Haley needs to meet a milquetoast bland man with no quirks, no flaws, no personality to turn her off and make her run away.

 

Haley needs to meet a Clark Kentish kind of guy, maybe a quiet accountant with no personality.  But then she said she LOVES BIG personalities because she "feeds off of their energy" or something ridiculous like that.  She doesn't even know what kind of guy she would work best with, which explains her lack of success.

I agree with you, Jake was like a broken record stuck in a repeating loop of self-defeating self-programming.  Everything he did or didn't do was based on the assumption that he was screwed from the get go with her, so what difference would it make if he burns his bridges and acts all sour grapes about the whole thing to get his retribution for that rejection?  He said in that clip early on to Haley herself that her behavior reminded him of behavior he's seen before.  So he wrote Haley off right away as being just like whoever it was from his past that did him wrong.  And then he only made the situation ten times worse.  To be honest, the way he acted showed absolutely no class.  A mature man takes responsibility for his lack of success with a woman and vows to find the right way to win her over.  This is being a man 101.  Picking fights with her and calling out her behavior on week ONE of their relationship was just the absolute WRONG thing to do unless you want to fail.  You may fail anyway, but at least you could tell yourself and the world that you gave it your best shot.  Jake did not give it ANY shot.  Blaming Haley for his lack of trying is not the point here.

I often don't agree with Pastor Cal, but he did have a point that Jake could have done more in that situation.  If men gave up and copped a sour defeatist attitude every time a woman was cold and indifferent to them, we'd have less than half the population on Earth today.  I'm not saying that he would have necessarily been successful because Haley was certainly a very tough room and not without a lot of issues herself, but it might have worked if he played his cards right, and that's the entire point.  I don't see where he was trying at all after a certain point.  OK Haley might not have been either, but if he's the one complaining about it, the ball's in his court to try to change it.  If not, then he should just STFU and stop laying all the blame on her.

When Pepper said it's hard being rejected every day, yeah, but successful people don't let that rejection sour them and make them ruin any chances that things might turn around.  If Jake really wanted Haley he wouldn't have done all those things to only further turn her off.  He would have bided (bode?) his time like Doug did and his patience might have paid off.  But I don't think he was feeling it with her either and so he didn't really care.  But he had no problem milking the victim card to make it look like it was all her fault.  Pepper is right about Haley but only to a point.  I found it interesting that the men here (Cal and Kevin) saw Jake's faults while Pepper, a woman, saw Haley's.  

[endure]

14 hours ago, Alexander Pope said:

I agree completely--there is major whitewashing going on with Erik and Virginia, and I suspect that is part of how they are making their transition to Couples Cam.  I was really surprised that they were chosen for that.

They were chosen for couple cam? Aren’t they automatically on if they chose to remain married, i guess that was my assumption? Were any other couples chosen? 

Edited May 28, 2021 by endure

[Yeah No]

13 hours ago, Retired at last said:

LOL - thank you, @Ilovepie. I was coming on to write exactly what you did. I was so angry, I even yelled at my TV a few times, which, for me, means it is time to walk away from this show. I was so sick and tired of Paige running out to follow that bastard to the car and telling him how great he was doing. ENOUGH! Then to have Kevin Frazier, who I had always liked in this role, totally sucking up to her so hard I am surprised there was any air left in the room. She may THINK she won the martyred saint award, but even if she had not heard some of the things on the clips she never saw, she still had enough of him to know that she needed to get out. And, no, she is not a pillar of strength and class. I am glad she is in therapy, but I will be truly happy if I never have to see her smug face again. (But, I will say that with her hair that way and off her face, this was the prettiest I have seen her face. The dress was horrendous, and no way a dress a "nice, Christian girl" would wear on national TV.)

Thank you, the fawning over Paige like she is the pinnacle of class and grace made me sick, almost as sick as Chris makes me and that's pretty bad.  I m not buying her or any of their "Christian" acts.  You don't let a man walk all over you, treat you like garbage, parade a former girlfriend around in front of you, tell you he bought that ex girlfriend a Mercedes and expect you to be OK with him and his former girlfriend having a baby and then cop a high and mighty Christian "turn the cheek" attitude to explain why you put up with it without being appropriately angry at him and showing your real feelings about it before you walk out the door forever.  No, that's BS and baloney and definitely NOT Christian.  No woman with any ounce of self respect would do that to herself even in the name of religion, and I don't buy that she has some kind of misguided interpretation of what it means to be a Christian.  No, not buying that.  He probably promised to buy HER a Mercedes if she stood by him throughout the season and didn't "disrespect him" and that's why she acted that way.  Or he somehow convinced her that she would look bad if she went the route of giving him what he deserved on national TV.  She wasn't acting like that because she is some noble "Christian" woman or whatever she's trying to sell us.  There was something in it for her, I'm sure of that.

Edited May 28, 2021 by Yeah No

[Yeah No]

11 hours ago, lids said:

Just ridiculous. But I realized this time that both Hailey and Jake were trying. Their love languages are so different, they didn’t even realize the other person was trying. Hailey clearly has a love language that revolves around interaction - acts of service and probably some words of affirmation in there. That’s why she kept planning all those sports dates and talking about her trips and things. Jakes language is physical touch. When Kevin asked Jake why he didn’t try to romance Hailey, Jake replied, “she wouldn’t let me!” As in, she wouldn’t let him romantically touch her. He keeps thinking Hailey’s not trying because the physical aspects not there, but Hailey was trying - just in her love language. Pretty much they both suck, but I do think Hailey at least went outside of her comfort zone to try more. 

Jacob’s outfit made me laugh so hard. It was like he was saying screw you to all his haters. It was right out of a “How to Dress Fashionably Gen Z” with the ripped skinny jeans. He had on his tux jacket from the wedding. And because everyone was saying he doesn’t own sneakers, he wore some bright red tennis shoes! Suck on that haterzzz. (It came off more like sad grampa though.)

I pretty much agree with you but I can't imagine how a guy that does nothing but react negatively and call a woman out on every bad thing she does is "trying".  In fact, that's negative trying.  It's stuff that will only hurt the relationship even more than it was already.  It's bad enough that she was being scarce and avoiding him in certain ways and times when she shouldn't have, but for him to stick a knife right into that is nothing but counterproductive with a capital C.  He just gave up, shut down and dug his heels in after the honeymoon, that was obvious.  Haley's behavior, if he played his cards right could have changed, and if she ever came around to actually liking him it would be forgotten in time.  In fact, it's the kind of stuff they could be joking about years later - "Remember when you wouldn't give me the time of day and ignored me?"  LOL  But it's pretty hard to come back from being verbally berated on a constant basis and told by the person that you don't like them, you're dishonest, you're just like this former woman, there's reality and then there's YOUR reality, etc., etc.  Perhaps she was all those things, but I'm saying that his calling her out on it on week ONE of the relationship in such a nasty manner was the height of counterproductive and might have been the single thing that stuck the final nail in the coffin of her ever turning around on him.

Edited May 28, 2021 by Yeah No

[Madding crowd]

I wanted either Kevin or the experts to ask Haley why she insists on winning at every type of sporting event and then made fun of Jake’s performance. That is just not right, man or woman and no one would want to date someone like that. Haley is subconsciously driving people away and I hope she can see that someday. Jake also drives people away by leading with the dry humor and 80’s stuff. He also needs to learn to put his best foot forward.

[cinsays]

On 5/26/2021 at 9:30 PM, Crashcourse said:

Sure, it can be applied to everyone but he was the one suggesting that he was so much fun or whatever.  I didn't hear anyone else suggesting that.

I think they just never liked each other.

He was just defending himself because Haley was saying what a boring downer he was. 

Yes, they just never liked each other and that does not make either of them unlikeable to everyone else. There are women who would appreciate him.

[red12]

22 minutes ago, Madding crowd said:

I wanted either Kevin or the experts to ask Haley why she insists on winning at every type of sporting event and then made fun of Jake’s performance. That is just not right, man or woman and no one would want to date someone like that. Haley is subconsciously driving people away and I hope she can see that someday. Jake also drives people away by leading with the dry humor and 80’s stuff. He also needs to learn to put his best foot forward.

In my experience, dry humor isn't the problem. Jake has terrible delivery timing. The thing about kneecaps being his favorite and how they are underrated can be a minute and a half bit if both people are good at conversation and the initial tone of delivery is more Seinfeld and less possible kidnapper.

[cinsays]

14 hours ago, Crashcourse said:

Team Haley here.  I'm glad she got out of this mess and I wish her well. 

hmm... that's a surprise......not  

 

[Crumpet]

No surprise that Erik and Jake get along. Jake's follows on Instagram include Joe Rogan, Mike Lindell, Ric Grenell, various Barstool idiots, Dan Scavino, Dinsesh D'Souza, Ted Nugent, the NRA, James O'Keefe, Tomi Lahren, Sebastian Gorka, multiple Alex Jones meme pages, Trump Jr, Dan Crenshaw...the list goes on. Paige should follow Haley's lead.

[Retired at last]

Because I don't do anything that requires me to "follow" anyone, I am not sure how it works, but I would be willing to bet that NONE of those people listed have a clue who Jake from MAFS is. Their accounts may have something that follows people, but I can pretty much promise that those people have much bigger things on their minds. Maybe Jake follows them and their accounts reciprocate?

[Crashcourse]

1 hour ago, Crumpet said:

No surprise that Erik and Jake get along. Jake's follows on Instagram include Joe Rogan, Mike Lindell, Ric Grenell, various Barstool idiots, Dan Scavino, Dinsesh D'Souza, Ted Nugent, the NRA, James O'Keefe, Tomi Lahren, Sebastian Gorka, multiple Alex Jones meme pages, Trump Jr, Dan Crenshaw...the list goes on. Paige should follow Haley's lead.

Hmmm...that's interesting, so maybe it wasn't just bad sex that Haley didn't like about him?   

1 hour ago, Retired at last said:

Because I don't do anything that requires me to "follow" anyone, I am not sure how it works, but I would be willing to bet that NONE of those people listed have a clue who Jake from MAFS is. Their accounts may have something that follows people, but I can pretty much promise that those people have much bigger things on their minds. Maybe Jake follows them and their accounts reciprocate?

They might not know who he is, but he knows who they are which is why he follows them, and why that might have been an issue for Haley which wasn't discussed on camera.  I know I would have been done with him.

[Alexander Pope]

12 hours ago, endure said:

They were chosen for couple cam? Aren’t they automatically on if they chose to remain married, i guess that was my assumption? Were any other couples chosen? 

Vincent and Briana are also doing it.  I had always thought they picked certain couples and not others, but maybe you're right! I know that Clara and Ryan aren't on it, but I think that was their choice.

[spunky]

20 hours ago, qtpye said:

 

 

Chris and Pastor Dwight have made me appreciate Pastor Cal's fashion sense.

Say what you want about the man, Pastor Cal's suits fit impeccably and the man wears socks. Not to mention there is not one grandma brooch to be found in his whole wardrobe. 

Pastor Cal is married to a Trinidadian woman,  we don't allow our men to leave the house looking like complete fools. With that said Pastor Dwight is so fine. 

Spoiler

I hope Paige took him up on his offer to hook her up with his friend.

 

[LennieBriscoe]

20 hours ago, TzuShih said:

I don't mean to try and psychoanalyze Haley (who I never met, or know anything about, or who may be a very sweet your woman), but I'm in agreement with a quote I recently read:  "You can tell how smart people are by what they laugh at."  I was continually surprised at how many times Haley said re Jake, "I don't get his humor."  Even the clip they played where Jake expounded upon Haley's "attractive kneecaps," -- I immediately chuckled at the 'fun' sense of play he was attempting to have with Haley.  I've always loved dark, dry, droll humor, and I tend to find it such a PLUS in relationships.  But, each to his/her own, I guess.  (P.S. Haley, when asked by Kevin,  said she likes "big personalities."  So I suspect that "droll and/or understated" are just not her thing.)

 

5 hours ago, Crumpet said:

No surprise that Erik and Jake get along. Jake's follows on Instagram include Joe Rogan, Mike Lindell, Ric Grenell, various Barstool idiots, Dan Scavino, Dinsesh D'Souza, Ted Nugent, the NRA, James O'Keefe, Tomi Lahren, Sebastian Gorka, multiple Alex Jones meme pages, Trump Jr, Dan Crenshaw...the list goes on. Paige should follow Haley's lead.

Well. I have new-found respect for Haley's powers of perception. 

Re: Jake's sense and style of humor. In this "experiment," maybe he should have been less "dry," for as clever as dry wit  can be, I think Jake could've "read the (bed)room" and realized his bons mots weren't so bon with Haley. 

Also, gotta admit, his "It's a 'Members Only' (jacket)" would've received a big "And?" from me.  

Moreover, after seeing the prior clip and then hearing Jake now calling Haley a liar, I can understand where that major attack on her character could lead Haley to opt for staying separate from Jake when no cameras were around. Less to defend (does anyone believe Jake asked Haley to teach him a dance?). 

With that Instagram info, I feel like Saul on the road to Damascus!

Edited May 28, 2021 by LennieBriscoe

[buttersister]

Quote

Jake also drives people away by leading with the dry humor and 80’s stuff. He also needs to learn to put his best foot forward.

I think he was. That was always the point. Haley may have come off as a bitch, but I identified more with her (he's a huge turnoff in every way) than was attracted to him (he's a huge turnoff in every way).

I'll go back to the bad (obviously) sex--she never called him out on that. Whether he's lousy, selfish or reeking of steak and eggs, that was a moment she couldn't come back from. If there are women who are attracted to his 80s fetish, his "dry" humor (which masks hostility, if you ask me) and his apparent politics, have at him. But please stay off my TV.

[LennieBriscoe]

On 5/27/2021 at 1:14 PM, Koalagirl said:

And yet, Haley said she wants someone with a big personality so she can feed off of his energy.   Hasn’t worked for her up until MAFS and probably won’t even after. 

So "personality" is what the kidz are calling it these days?

38 minutes ago, LennieBriscoe said:

 

Well. I have new-found respect for Haley's powers of perception. And Kevin's.

Re: Jake's sense and style of humor. In this "experiment," maybe he should have been less "dry," for as clever as dry wit  can be, I think Jake could've "read the (bed)room" and realized his bons mots weren't so bon with Haley. 

Also, gotta admit, his "It's a 'Members Only' (jacket)" would've received a big "And?" from me.  

Moreover, after seeing the prior clip and then hearing Jake now calling Haley a liar, I can understand where that major attack on her character could lead Haley to opt for staying separate from Jake when no cameras were around. Less to defend (does anyone believe Jake asked Haley to teach him a dance?). 

With that Instagram info, I feel like Saul on the road to Damascus!

Don't  know how I quoted myself! But I added a mention of Kevin. 

Edited May 28, 2021 by LennieBriscoe

[qtpye]

58 minutes ago, LennieBriscoe said:

 

Well. I have new-found respect for Haley's powers of perception. 

Re: Jake's sense and style of humor. In this "experiment," maybe he should have been less "dry," for as clever as dry wit  can be, I think Jake could've "read the (bed)room" and realized his bons mots weren't so bon with Haley. 

Also, gotta admit, his "It's a 'Members Only' (jacket)" would've received a big "And?" from me.  

Moreover, after seeing the prior clip and then hearing Jake now calling Haley a liar, I can understand where that major attack on her character could lead Haley to opt for staying separate from Jake when no cameras were around. Less to defend (does anyone believe Jake asked Haley to teach him a dance?). 

With that Instagram info, I feel like Saul on the road to Damascus!

I think the worst thing Jake did to Hailey is when she accused him of having a secret boyfriend when it was becoming clear that she was not into him. I have no idea why he would think that since Hailey has said she has been single for many years. He later explained that this has happened to him a lot and he just jumped to conclusions.

[JocelynCavanaugh]

On 5/27/2021 at 3:42 PM, Crashcourse said:

Well we can agree to disagree about that because I thought the guys were just being polite and didn't want to say anything more.

8 hours ago, red12 said:

In my experience, dry humor isn't the problem. Jake has terrible delivery timing. The thing about kneecaps being his favorite and how they are underrated can be a minute and a half bit if both people are good at conversation and the initial tone of delivery is more Seinfeld and less possible kidnapper.

19 hours ago, Rae Spellman said:

This could be it. Or, the types of interactions they had with Jake were shorter and entirely different that the types of interactions Haley and Jake had. 

Jake's sense of humor is very dry. There were a couple of moments this season where I caught him saying something witty, but many more where I could tell he was trying to be funny but actually he was just being a dick. I also have a dry sense of humor, and I've learned that my delivery comes across differently in my head, and sometimes people have thought I was being mean or weird when I was just having a good time. The thing is, when I learned this was happening, I didn't double down and become a self-pitying victim or decide everyone who didn't laugh was just stupid. I learned from the experience and changed my behavior. Now I don't make those kinds of jokes around people I don't know well, or I make it clear that I'm joking, verbally and non-verbally. It's really not that hard, and I think people are more likely to see me as funny and nice rather than bizarrely hostile now.

But Jake doesn't like to learn about himself. He's let us know that loud and clear. He'd rather smirk and antagonize women around him and I guess bask in the pity/adoration of those who think he's a misunderstood Good Guy. Poor, hilarious incel dumping obligation jewelry on strangers. That's a no from me, dog. As someone the same washed-up, hopeless, elderly age as Jake, my life is too short to babysit egos when there are plenty of amiable people to spend time with instead. Probably unrelated, but Jake and I are about the same age and I've been married for over 10 years, even though some might say I'm quirky! 

The guys' responses to Jake were very familiar to me. They were exactly how dudes respond to that one guy who's aggressively awkward but has always been cool to them personally, so they don't want to call him out even though they see him being a jackass to women or people outside the social circle. It's halting laughter and "haha that's our Jake, so funny..." (with the "he's a fuckin' weirdo and I'm a little scared of him TBH" part redacted). 

19 hours ago, Yeah No said:

I agree with you, Jake was like a broken record stuck in a repeating loop of self-defeating self-programming.  Everything he did or didn't do was based on the assumption that he was screwed from the get go with her, so what difference would it make if he burns his bridges and acts all sour grapes about the whole thing to get his retribution for that rejection?  [snip] Jake did not give it ANY shot.  Blaming Haley for his lack of trying is not the point here.

I often don't agree with Pastor Cal, but he did have a point that Jake could have done more in that situation. [snip] I don't see where he was trying at all after a certain point.  OK Haley might not have been either, but if he's the one complaining about it, the ball's in his court to try to change it.  If not, then he should just STFU and stop laying all the blame on her.

When Pepper said it's hard being rejected every day, yeah, but successful people don't let that rejection sour them and make them ruin any chances that things might turn around.  If Jake really wanted Haley he wouldn't have done all those things to only further turn her off.  [snip]  I found it interesting that the men here (Cal and Kevin) saw Jake's faults while Pepper, a woman, saw Haley's.  

Pepper was really disappointing this season. She reminded me of Dr. Jessica unleashing the kraken on Molly. What's with licensed professionals who can't understand that all physical touch is optional and no woman is obligated to have sex, or even hold hands, with someone, even if they're married, even if they've had sex before, even if they're on TV. These attitudes help perpetuate rape culture. I don't care if hugs and holding hands aren't a big deal to some people. They're too much for others. You don't have to understand it. Just accept that people are different and intimacy is personal. This is really the barest minimum of respect for other humans.

Jake has some kind of unhealthy mental pattern or disorder where he imagines something negative to be true, apparently based on his self-assessment as much smarter than everyone else, and then he fixates on that thing and catastrophes it. So he decides Haley is cheating on him, based on literally nothing. He calls her out. She denies it. But Jake knows better. He harps and nags and catastrophizes because he's so sure that his assumption is infallible.

Haley was absolutely right when she said that he assumes he knows what she's going to do or say, yet he's usually wrong. We saw him do it multiple times, and there was no denying that some of his accusations made zero sense and were utterly preposterous. Who would want to be married to someone who makes every interaction into a federal case? Sometimes you want to come home and relax, not file motions and prepare evidence to justify a face you didn't realize you made.

I enjoyed Kevin calling out Jake's nonstop bullshit, victim complex, "bew hew mew mew sheee haaaatesss meee" routine. Someone needed to. I saw their wedding and I saw who smiled for most of it and who had a rotten stankface. Plenty of people are ready and willing to jump on Haley for being a "frigid bitch" who owes men hugs and should prostrate herself before anyone who buys her a bracelet packaged like a necklace. It was nice to see just one person in the whole milieu actually consider her perspective.

[StatisticalOutlier]

53 minutes ago, JocelynCavanaugh said:

What's with licensed professionals who can't understand that all physical touch is optional and no woman is obligated to have sex, or even hold hands, with someone, even if they're married, even if they've had sex before, even if they're on TV.

I couldn't agree more and felt sorry for Haley every time there was some instruction to hold Jake's hand or sleep in the same bed with him.  And it definitely didn't help when in one of their bed chats, through his smirk he suggested "sensuous cuddling" (or something similar--I tried to erase it from my mind).  Hell. No.

[Hangin Out]

On 5/27/2021 at 11:14 AM, Ilovepie said:

This whole show pissed me off. What a bunch of malarkey! 
 

Kevin totally sucked. I have zero respect for how he GRILLED Jake about the sex as proof that Haley “tried”, except that was the beginning and the end of her efforts over the course of the eight weeks, and that was day four. And she will never be right about the bracelet. Never. Rude and ungrateful beyond comprehension.  It’s also bullshit to compare them to Jamie and Doug. Jake is not Doug - he’s not an easy going doofus married to a girl so desperate for love and stability she was willing to look past the initial unattraction and accept his romantic overatures. And Pastor Cal saying he should have brought more swag? Has he met him? That is not his personality at all! I am glad Dr. P called her cold because she is. Enjoy being single Haley, I think you’re in for another 7 years or so with your stank attitude. Or maybe she’ll find a good looking basic bland guy who lets her dress him and lets her win at everything. She’ll book all their vacations and concerts and he’ll just say yes dear because she does what she wants when she wants. He will definitely be a “happy wife, happy life” kind of guy.

Also, Kevin totally let Virginia off the hook. She lies - she absolutely thought she could still pass out drunk on her boy friends couches - it’s on film and we saw it. These two definitely have an expiration date. Do we think they will continue the party line of wedded bliss on couples cam, or is it going to get messy a la Shawniece and Jephte? Either way, I’ll be shocked if they are still together by their first anniversary.

I am into Clara and Ryan. They are cute. But Clara can stop whining about people being nice online. Good luck with that sweetie. If that worried you so much you should not have gone on national tv to find a spouse.

Lastly, the fawning over Paige was ridiculous. She did not carry herself with strength and class Kevin! First we saw her, she was talking about someone eating her butthole. Not classy. Then she had sex on her wedding night repeatedly!  with a guy she already had red flags about. Then whining about it to her new in laws. Embarrassing. Then more red flags and more sex. Constantly giving in to manipulation. Giving chance after chance to that asshole who showed you repeatedly that he was not a good guy. Unfortunately, the best words to describe her behavior this season are sad and pathetic. It was painful to watch. I am glad she is getting help.

I have zero faith in Kevin’s interviews from now on.  He was terrible!   Somebody got to him.

[Rae Spellman]

 

11 hours ago, cinsays said:

There are women who would appreciate him.

My guess is the only thing preventing Jake from already being married is that he's not attracted to the women who find his wit and quirks endearing. 

2 hours ago, JocelynCavanaugh said:

The guys' responses to Jake were very familiar to me. They were exactly how dudes respond to that one guy who's aggressively awkward but has always been cool to them personally, so they don't want to call him out even though they see him being a jackass to women or people outside the social circle.  

Yes, plenty of funny people are absolute jerks. The cast spent the bulk of their airtime at the reunion trying to rewrite a history we saw. So they aren't the best character references. 

[Blissfool]

Virginia's lone "WOOOOOH" at the very end made me laugh. Was she already high on the sippy sippy 🤣

[Lurk]

On 5/27/2021 at 10:59 AM, Hangin Out said:

The 2 women experts agreed that Haley was “COLD”.  The bracelet was telling.  When a man goes out to pick a gift for his bride, he expects her to wear it for the vows.  She put it away like it was nothing.  That was rude and hateful.  She had a fuck face on the whole time she was with him.  She is not marriage material. She’s too in love with herself.  P. S.  I always liked Kevin Frazier, but not the way he totally threw Jake under the bus.

Other brides have worn the jewelry gifts their husbands gifted them. I remember 1 wearing a necklace even though she had on a necklace and the 2 seemed to be tangling or clashing. But she wore it. Might have been Paige? It was an infinity necklace.

 

[Ms.C.]

On 5/27/2021 at 8:14 AM, Ilovepie said:

Jake is not Doug - he’s not an easy going doofus married to a girl so desperate for love and stability she was willing to look past the initial unattraction and accept his romantic overatures.

Isn’t that what this show is about?  Putting people together and trusting they will learn to like and then love the stranger they married?   It’s ok if you don’t like Doug or Jamie but Calling them names just doesn’t seem fair.  Would you call Sam’s final love for Neil a desperate need for love and stability?   I’d say - like Jamie - Sam fell in love with a guy she was previously so contemptuous of he couldn’t love her back.  

[Hangin Out]

I’ve never believed in this type of show getting married without knowing a person.  It’s like a blind date, but you are married, and stuck.  First impressions are important.  You have to see and talk with a person first to see if you’re interested to go forward.  If these people want a partner, go to a matchmaker first.  Who would go on tv and get married?  A person who likes to gamble, or want the fame or the money.  Chris & Paige were wannabe actors, and got on my nerves with their shenanigans.  Waste of my eyes.  Virginia is a drunk, Clara is desperate, maybe the Engineer and spouse will make it.  Jake & Haley, totally a mismatch.  How could anyone go to bed with a stranger?  Yikes!  Not me, but I’m the older generation.

[Yeah No]

23 hours ago, Crumpet said:

No surprise that Erik and Jake get along. Jake's follows on Instagram include Joe Rogan, Mike Lindell, Ric Grenell, various Barstool idiots, Dan Scavino, Dinsesh D'Souza, Ted Nugent, the NRA, James O'Keefe, Tomi Lahren, Sebastian Gorka, multiple Alex Jones meme pages, Trump Jr, Dan Crenshaw...the list goes on. Paige should follow Haley's lead.

All this does not surprise me at all.  If you are like Jake and have an axe to grind about how the world and especially women are not fair to you, you would likely gravitate to online sources that will confirm that assumption for you.  I have been saying that Jake is doing that for weeks now.  Now I just have more evidence of it.

I do not have to have any newfound sense of respect for Haley based on this because I instinctively saw what she was seeing about him since the honeymoon.

I am sure the show left out a lot about why she wasn't into him, and of course she ended up looking like the bad guy because of it.  This show is famous for that, usually making some of the women look bad when there are good reasons for how they feel.  Later on, usually after their season is over, information comes out about their spouse to make them look justified.  But all through the season people called them stuck up and too picky, not giving the guy a chance.  I have been complaining about this for a long time.  I could give examples but I don't want to go on too long.

14 hours ago, JocelynCavanaugh said:

Jake has some kind of unhealthy mental pattern or disorder where he imagines something negative to be true, apparently based on his self-assessment as much smarter than everyone else, and then he fixates on that thing and catastrophes it. So he decides Haley is cheating on him, based on literally nothing. He calls her out. She denies it. But Jake knows better. He harps and nags and catastrophizes because he's so sure that his assumption is infallible.

Haley was absolutely right when she said that he assumes he knows what she's going to do or say, yet he's usually wrong. We saw him do it multiple times, and there was no denying that some of his accusations made zero sense and were utterly preposterous. Who would want to be married to someone who makes every interaction into a federal case? Sometimes you want to come home and relax, not file motions and prepare evidence to justify a face you didn't realize you made.

I enjoyed Kevin calling out Jake's nonstop bullshit, victim complex, "bew hew mew mew sheee haaaatesss meee" routine. Someone needed to. I saw their wedding and I saw who smiled for most of it and who had a rotten stankface. Plenty of people are ready and willing to jump on Haley for being a "frigid bitch" who owes men hugs and should prostrate herself before anyone who buys her a bracelet packaged like a necklace. It was nice to see just one person in the whole milieu actually consider her perspective.

Jake's mental pattern is one of pre-judging situations and people, usually in the worst way possible.  Basically, that makes him prejudiced about certain things.  Based on a very limited number of negative past experiences, he assumes the worst about certain types of people, situations, etc.  and incidentally that usually becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.  The more you prejudge certain people the more they will rebel against you and look bad themselves.  He didn't pre-judge the men, so lo and behold he didn't sabotage his relationship with them and got along with them.  But obviously he has a pattern of prejudging women and likely other people and situations and the outlets he follows online will only feed into that sense of not getting what he deserves, reading the worst into certain situations or people, etc.  It makes perfect sense.

He has a profound lack of trust in women and did so going into this, which certainly didn't help.  He obviously has a profound lack of trust in other things as well given some of his interests online.

It makes me wonder just how "close" he is with some of the other men on the show unless they just don't discuss certain subjects.

Edited May 29, 2021 by Yeah No

[Rae Spellman]

5 hours ago, Yeah No said:

It makes me wonder just how "close" he is with some of the other men on the show unless they just don't discuss certain subjects.

Ryan seems like the type of guy who is friendly, but not necessarily friends with plenty of Jake-like guys. Even though theoretically they have a few things in common, I could see Erik finding Jake fairly annoying but never admitting it on camera. If Vincent and Jake are off-camera buddies, that would be more shocking that finding out that Woody and Henry are buddies. 

The women going on that trip doesn't convince me that they've formed a close lifelong bond, either. If I was Brianna or Vincent, except for official Couple's Cam business, I'd distance myself from all the rest of them by the time the next season airs. 

[Alexander Pope]

6 hours ago, Yeah No said:

All this does not surprise me at all.  If you are like Jake and have an axe to grind about how the world and especially women are not fair to you, you would likely gravitate to online sources that will confirm that assumption for you.  I have been saying that Jake is doing that for weeks now.  Now I just have more evidence of it.

I do not have to have any newfound sense of respect for Haley based on this because I instinctively saw what she was seeing about him since the honeymoon.

I am sure the show left out a lot about why she wasn't into him, and of course she ended up looking like the bad guy because of it.  This show is famous for that, usually making some of the women look bad when there are good reasons for how they feel.  Later on, usually after their season is over, information comes out about their spouse to make them look justified.  But all through the season people called them stuck up and too picky, not giving the guy a chance.  I have been complaining about this for a long time.  I could give examples but I don't want to go on too long.

Jake's mental pattern is one of pre-judging situations and people, usually in the worst way possible.  Basically, that makes him prejudiced about certain things.  Based on a very limited number of negative past experiences, he assumes the worst about certain types of people, situations, etc.  and incidentally that usually becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.  The more you prejudge certain people the more they will rebel against you and look bad themselves.  He didn't pre-judge the men, so lo and behold he didn't sabotage his relationship with them and got along with them.  But obviously he has a pattern of prejudging women and likely other people and situations and the outlets he follows online will only feed into that sense of not getting what he deserves, reading the worst into certain situations or people, etc.  It makes perfect sense.

He has a profound lack of trust in women and did so going into this, which certainly didn't help.  He obviously has a profound lack of trust in other things as well given some of his interests online.

It makes me wonder just how "close" he is with some of the other men on the show unless they just don't discuss certain subjects.

The more I read these extremely thoughtful posts about Jake and Haley, the more I'm convinced that they were a) profoundly mismatched, and b) both pretty unlikable.  I have really enjoyed the conversation!