S01.E02: A Smashing Good Time

[peachmangosteen]

Quote

It’s time for the annual Skylin Garden Club Party! Year after year after year, the residents of Skylin struggle with the truth around what happened to Kate, keeping their secrets buried and maintaining appearances.

Airs April 20th.

[absnow54]

I enjoyed the second episode a lot more than the first. Olivia Holt is quite good as Kate, and I found myself immediately sympathizing with her, whereas I had a hard time connecting with Jeanette in the first episode. 

[Spartan Girl]

I didn’t expect to be hooked but I am.

Kate’s stepdad is a sweet guy, but her mom? Total Karen.

I don’t know who is lying. It’s easy to sympathize with both Kate and Jeannette, especially when you see how both their lives have been messed up. Kate, of course, has been through hell, but the part about her being “less than honest” about something has got me curious. Either she was lying about Jeanette or lying about how well she knew her abductor. It’s possible the guy wormed his way into her confidences before he kidnapped her and she feels guilty about that, which is why she “lied” about that. If she’s lying about Jeanette, well, it’s easy to understand why she hates the girl who basically replaced her with her boyfriend and friends. 

Speaking of whom, I don’t get why she’d even want him back. He was sure quick to dump Jeanette like a hot potato the second Kate was found. He comes off as a fickle douche.

On the flip side, Jeanette does come off as a bit shady. Even if she didn’t lie about not knowing where Kate was, she sure didn’t waste  time jumping in as the popular one, ditching her old friends in the process. At least that’s how it seems now. We still don’t know the whole story yet.

Edited April 21, 2021 by Spartan Girl

[methodwriter85]

5 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

I don’t know who is lying. It’s easy to sympathize with both Kate and Jeannette, especially when you see how both their lives have been messed up. Kate, of course, has been through hell, but the part about her being “less than honest” about something has got me curious. Either she was lying about Jeanette or lying about how well she knew her abductor Speaking of whom, I don’t get why she’d even want him back. He was sure quick to dump Jeanette like a hot potato the second Kate was found. He comes off as a fickle douche..

The show's strength is that they wrote both Kate and Jeanette sympathetically, and they cast girls who can act. This show would have fallen apart without both of those factors. My theory is that it was actually Janis Ian who saw Kate, but Kate mistook her for Jeanette, or she's going with it being Jeanette just to get back at her. I also liked the twist that this wasn't actually some kind of criminal trial, which I thought they were going with. It makes sense why Jeanette's father doesn't seem to be concerned with her going to jail. As for Jamie, they're teenagers and he looks like Froy Gutierrez. Lol On a serious note I think Kate went back to him to try and regain normalcy. She doesn't seem to still be with him in 1995 because she seems to be over normalcy.

Edited April 21, 2021 by methodwriter85

[Jx223]

6 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

 

 

6 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

I didn’t expect to be hooked but I am.

Kate’s stepdad is a sweet guy, but her mom? Total Karen.

I don’t know who is lying. It’s easy to sympathize with both Kate and Jeannette, especially when you see how both their lives have been messed up. Kate, of course, has been through hell, but the part about her being “less than honest” about something has got me curious. Either she was lying about Jeanette or lying about how well she knew her abductor. It’s possible the guy wormed his way into her confidences before he kidnapped her and she feels guilty about that, which is why she “lied” about that. If she’s lying about Jeanette, well, it’s easy to understand why she hates the girl who basically replaced her with her boyfriend and friends. 

 

 

1 hour ago, methodwriter85 said:

The show's strength is that they wrote both Kate and Jeanette sympathetically, and they cast girls who can act. This show would have fallen apart without both of those factors. My theory is that it was actually Janis Ian who saw Kate, but Kate mistook her for Jeanette, or she's going with it being Jeanette just to get back at her. I also liked the twist that this wasn't actually some kind of criminal trial, which I thought they were going with. 

I'm really enjoying this show. Both of the young female leads are doing a really good job of portraying the different layers of their characters and presenting their sides of the story. Especially Chiara Aurelia as Jeanette. She is excellent. When I initially saw the previews for this show, I didn't think that I would be that sympathetic to her character, but after watching the first two episodes, I am sympathetic to her. I'm also pretty intrigued by her character, especially as she undergoes the three transformations that occur each summer. The actress is doing an excellent job of showing the different stages that Jeanette is going through as time progresses in this story.

I also wonder what Kate is not being completely truthful about. I think she isn't being forthcoming about multiple things. Including when and how Jeanette may have saw her. I believe that Kate and Martin developed some sort of bond/relationship prior to him abducting her. I think that Kate may have gotten closer to him, and started confiding in him after she found out about her mother's affair. I wonder if Jeanette noticed this and saw them together a few times, including the night that Kate disappeared. Maybe she did see them then and never mentioned that to anyone including the police, preventing them from lookin at Martin as a person of interest.

Maybe Kate is angry about that, in addition to feeling like Jeanette stole her life from her. I can't say I buy right now that Jeanette saw her locked in the basement and chose to do nothing about it. But maybe more evidence will come along to suggest that happened. I could see Kate becoming closer to Martin, him becoming obsessed with her, and possibly made an advance towards her. Maybe she rejected him and he ended up locking her in the basement. I think that the scene of her banging on the door, may have occurred after something like that happened. 

I also wonder what is the story behind Kate having Jeanette's necklace. Maybe she found it after she saw Jamie and Jeanette meeting up and kissing and decided to use it against Jeanette. Or maybe she ended up finding it in Martin's house at some point, before she was abducted. Jeanette could have accidentally lost it there, when her and her friends were playing hide and seek in the house. Maybe Kate found it right before she was locked in the basement.

And, I could see Jamie becoming a big problem later on. I'm a bit surprised that not many people on the show have made a bigger deal about him punching Jeanette. He hit her like he was trying to knock out a boxer. He came across as very violent and then we see him sitting outside of the car in '95 with a gun. I could see him going over the edge. Who knows we may even see a story down the line  showing Kate rescuing Jeanette from him, and that having an impact on the dynamic between the girls. I wouldn't be surprised at all if he ends up abusing Jeanette again. Maybe even trying something with Kate, before she breaks it off with him. 

Edited April 21, 2021 by Jx223

[tennisgurl]

I am fully hooked on this show, the two main actresses are really great and I really feel sympathy for both of them. The first episode really built Kate up as a mean girl but she seemed pretty nice in this one, and while her step-dad seems like a good guy and a supportive parent her mom is just The Worst. My crazy off the wall theory is that it was actually Kate's mom who saw her in the basement and didn't tell anyone, because her mom found out that Kate knew about her affair and was worried she would expose her, and Kate's trauma addled brain blocked out seeing her mom and just filled Jeanette in, but that seems pretty far out. Or is it? 

I think that what Kate isn't being truthful about is that she didn't know her abductor before he kidnapped her. Maybe they formed some kind of bond, and he kidnapped her when he wanted it to not be so platonic? I could buy that Kate saw someone but it wasn't Jeanette, or that she is lying out of bitterness that Jeanette stole her life, or even that she is totally telling the truth and Jeanette did see her and leave her there to keep her new shiny life. She did break into the house one time, and a lot of things she has done have seemed pretty shady, but I really don't know. 

So now we have a fifth timeline in 1995. Kate's struggles have come just in time for grudge!

[cardigirl]

Do we know where Jeanette's mom is in '95? 

[Guest]

I loved Kate's stepdad! Also into Kate being a nice debutante instead of a cliche mean girl. I think she's going to get back at Jeanette by taking her friends and dating the one that's supposedly in love with Jeanette (that revelation came out of nowhere and imo there was nothing that established his apparent unrequited crush so they have to be setting up something - I'm thinking Jeanette realizes feelings for him in 1995 after Kate starts dating him). Hopefully they both drop greaser boy. He lost me when he punched Jeanette. And from Kate's POV, I get craving normalcy, but why would you go back to someone who not only started dating someone else within weeks of your disappearance (which is a huge red flag for involvement), but also picked the girl who essentially dedicated herself to taking your identity?

It's been established Jeanette has a key to Martin's place and knows her way around the basement. I think she either knew Kate was there much earlier than Kate thinks or (conspiracy theory) she's the one who held Kate captive without Martin's knowledge.  

23 minutes ago, cardigirl said:

Do we know where Jeanette's mom is in '95? 

Hasn't been revealed yet - I assumed divorced based on the tight timeline and Jeanette's rudeness to his gf (possible cheating), but the show seems super committed to the mirroring concept, so I wouldn't be surprised if they killed off Jeanette's mom to have a dead parent parallel between her and Kate.

Edited April 21, 2021 by Guest

[LittleIggy]

Kate’s mom pushing that earring post through Kate’s earlobe! 😬 When she said she would get a Kleenex and make things right, I was like “Oh, no she isn’t about to...” and she did! 😱

[Jx223]

1 hour ago, cardigirl said:

Do we know where Jeanette's mom is in '95? 

 

1 hour ago, SnarkEnthusiast said:

I loved Kate's stepdad! Also into Kate being a nice debutante instead of a cliche mean girl. I think she's going to get back at Jeanette by taking her friends and dating the one that's supposedly in love with Jeanette (that revelation came out of nowhere and imo there was nothing that established his apparent unrequited crush so they have to be setting up something - I'm thinking Jeanette realizes feelings for him in 1995 after Kate starts dating him). Hopefully they both drop greaser boy. He lost me when he punched Jeanette. And from Kate's POV, I get craving normalcy, but why would you go back to someone who not only started dating someone else within weeks of your disappearance (which is a huge red flag for involvement), but also picked the girl who essentially dedicated herself to taking your identity?

It's been established Jeanette has a key to Martin's place and knows her way around the basement. I think she either knew Kate was there much earlier than Kate thinks or (conspiracy theory) she's the one who held Kate captive without Martin's knowledge.  

Hasn't been revealed yet - I assumed divorced based on the tight timeline and Jeanette's rudeness to his gf (possible cheating), but the show seems super committed to the mirroring concept, so I wouldn't be surprised if they killed off Jeanette's mom to have a dead parent parallel between her and Kate.

I like that Kate is nice as well. It adds an interesting layer to things. I do think that if things hadn't spiraled out of control for her, her and Jeanette could have been friends. 

I wonder where Jeanette's mom is well. I was thinking divorce too. Maybe her parents split up over them disagreeing about her innocence. Maybe more things came to light and the mom ended up believing she was guilty, whereas the dad took her side. Maybe the mom was also embarrassed by Jeanette turning into a town pariah and that may have contributed the split as well. Kate' s mom said that she didn't care for Jeanette's mom and that she felt like she was trying to be her. Maybe Jeanette's mom ended up being really embarrassed regarding Jeanette, and maybe Kate's mom even made things difficult for her in the town. This could have altered the way she parented Jeanette and affected her relationship with her and her husband.

In '95, we can see that Jeanette and her dad's relationship is rocky, but she is living with him. And he does seem to be concerned for her and is trying to help her make a case for herself, by trying to make sure that she meets with her lawyers. The bartender mentioned that her and Jeanette's father had been dating for four months. I wonder how long her mom had been out of the picture by then. I feel like it might be longer than the four months he has been dating the bartender. 

I am interested in learning what happened to her mother, because they seemed like very loving, warm family in '93. But that family is definitely frayed a couple of years later. It's interesting that she's nowhere to be found right now, but Kate's parents are still together. (Which also leads me to wonder if her step-dad ever found out about her mother's affair).

Edited April 21, 2021 by Jx223

[KaveDweller]

4 hours ago, Jx223 said:

I also wonder what is the story behind Kate having Jeanette's necklace. Maybe she found it after she saw Jamie and Jeanette meeting up and kissing and decided to use it against Jeanette. Or maybe she ended up finding it in Martin's house at some point, before she was abducted. Jeanette could have accidentally lost it there, when her and her friends were playing hide and seek in the house. Maybe Kate found it right before she was locked in the basement.

We saw Jeanette wearing the necklace after the hide and seek scenes, so she didn't lose it then. But I agree she could have found it somewhere else.

I am really liking this. I am not sure who is lying. It does seem like Jeanette is hiding something, and at one point I was even wondering if she was responsible for the abduction. It sounds like the principal died during Kate's rescue so maybe there is more to the story. But now we know Kate is lying about something too. I find that they are both likable, but definitely flawed.

I wasn't sure about the jumping around in time at first, but decided I like it. It's a different way to reveal the story. 

[mamadrama]

Things I noticed:

"Call me Mr. Harris," to Jeanette vs "I'm Martin" to Kate. Grooming?

The news said that Martin was shot by the police and video footage showed them walking Kate out in the daylight. However, the gunshot Jeanette and Jamie heard was the night before.

The mirrors in the basement. Could they be two way? Maybe Kate saw Jeanette and assumed she saw her back. 

My 9yo noticed that when Jeanette ran to Jamie's house she seemed genuinely perplexed as to why he hit her. She didn't scream "I'm sorry" or "I can explain", she cried "why are you doing this to me."

Theories:

Kate saw Jeanette but Jeanette didn't see Kate.

Kate saw Mallory (who'd taken the necklace back) and thought it was Jeanette. 

Mallory is somehow involved. 

General ideas:

Jeanette's mom is no different than Jeanette. She also wanted to be like someone else and cared about how things looked (ie, cheap necklace). 

I wonder if Jeanette is somehow jealous (NOT the right word) of Kate even more now that she's been rescued? Jeanette seemed to think that Kate had everything that she didnt: the cool friends, hot guy, pretty hair, big house...And when it came time for Martin to kidnap someone even HE chose Kate (even though he'd been "alone" in the house with Jeanette and had met her first). 

All teen girls are a little sociopathic. I wouldn't return to 15 for anything. A lot of what's going on looks suspicious in context but out of? Not that unusual for a teen girl to "blossom" in a year. Or to lose interest in old activities or grow apart from old friends. Or to idolize another girl and develop a crush on her boyfriend. All these things are fairly normal. But in context of this story? Yikes.  

Edited April 22, 2021 by mamadrama

[mamadrama]

4 hours ago, SnarkEnthusiast said:

. He lost me when he punched Jeanette. And from Kate's POV, I get craving normalcy, but why would you go back to someone who not only started dating someone else within weeks of your disappearance (which is a huge red flag for involvement), but also picked the girl who essentially dedicated herself to taking your identity?

 

I thought that too at first but then I realized that in the 94 timeline she'd only been back home for a day or so. She was probably still extremely traumatized and he was a familiar face.

We didn't see who was in the truck when she was dancing, did we? We know Jamie has a car. 

[gesundheit]

8 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I think that what Kate isn't being truthful about is that she didn't know her abductor before he kidnapped her.

Definitely seems true -- the night he gets her on the street and the night she's banging on the door to get out are definitely different times, different outfits. So she knew him.

I agree with everyone above who appreciates that they didn't go with the Mean Girl cliché for Kate. I also think a more superficial teen show would have Jeannette be making "But she's lying, she hates me!" overtures, but instead she shows enough empathy (or sophisticated strategy) to say "She's traumatized and confused, she's been through so much."

It really is odd how not-90s it looks. I think it's trying to have it both ways a little -- let it be a nostalgia/period piece for us grownups while not looking so era-specific that the teens can't also be the audience (as in, they mostly use 90s fashion that could also exist today so that there's less aesthetic distance). But Jeannette's 1995 wig is god awful! 

Anyway, I could be wrong about that and maybe the 90s were just formative enough for me that the looks still seem normal and I can't see it. (With exceptions. Mallory's whole look being one of them.)

[methodwriter85]

16 minutes ago, gesundheit said:

It really is odd how not-90s it looks. I think it's trying to have it both ways a little -- let it be a nostalgia/period piece for us grownups while not looking so era-specific that the teens can't also be the audience (as in, they mostly use 90s fashion that could also exist today so that there's less aesthetic distance). But Jeannette's 1995 wig is god awful! 

It's going with what I call the "neutral" time period look, employed by period shows like This Is Us as well as the movie The Perks of Being A Wallflower. Nothing is jarringly out of place but they also make sure to stay away from any unflattering fashion from the period. They use trends if they look fine by present-day aesthetics. 

They also tend to ignore that adults often wear clothes that are throwbacks to earlier eras- we should be seeing Mom's and Dad's in clothes that look more 1983 instead of '93-'95 but again, they stick to neutral stuff. Kate's mother absolutely screams big hair and we only really see her wear big hair in the '93 party.

There should be a lot more thin eyebrows, dark red/brown lipstick, and white powder foundations on the girls. This is a photo I saw floating on Reddit and I wish they had gone with this look, especially when we got to '95:

In general I think the clothes are fitted too tight and the make-up isn't right, either. There should be some subtle goth looks in the '95 scenes and you're not really seeing that.

 

[Ambrosefolly]

11 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

It's going with what I call the "neutral" time period look, employed by period shows like This Is Us as well as the movie The Perks of Being A Wallflower. Nothing is jarringly out of place but they also make sure to stay away from any unflattering fashion from the period. They use trends if they look fine by present-day aesthetics. 

They also tend to ignore that adults often wear clothes that are throwbacks to earlier eras- we should be seeing Mom's and Dad's in clothes that look more 1983 instead of '93-'95 but again, they stick to neutral stuff. Kate's mother absolutely screams big hair and we only really see her wear big hair in the '93 party.

There should be a lot more thin eyebrows, dark red/brown lipstick, and white powder foundations on the girls. This is a photo I saw floating on Reddit and I wish they had gone with this look, especially when we got to '95:

In general I think the clothes are fitted too tight and the make-up isn't right, either. There should be some subtle goth looks in the '95 scenes and you're not really seeing that.

 

They should work Mallory to be that type with the goth look.

[mamadrama]

15 hours ago, gesundheit said:

 

It really is odd how not-90s it looks. I think it's trying to have it both ways a little -- let it be a nostalgia/period piece for us grownups while not looking so era-specific that the teens can't also be the audience (as in, they mostly use 90s fashion that could also exist today so that there's less aesthetic distance). But Jeannette's 1995 wig is god awful! 

Anyway, I could be wrong about that and maybe the 90s were just formative enough for me that the looks still seem normal and I can't see it. (With exceptions. Mallory's whole look being one of them.)

See, for me they look bang on to how me and my friends dressed during that time. When my son was laughing at Jamie ("he's wearing 3 shirts!") I pulled out my photo album and showed them my 16yo boyfriend wearing the same thing.

I lived in a small, rural town. We didn't really get the goth look or the pale makeup here. "My So-Called Life" was popular at the time and we were watching Roxanne and Angela and laughing like "Who dresses like that?" We saw it on TV and in magazines but not necessarily in real life. There may have been 1 or 2 kids but they were the exception. When we look  on a time period and their fashion we tend to generalize (personally, I like to think ALL women wore flapper dresses and beads in the 20s) but it really could vary by region, age, family culture and income bracket. We also had cliques that dressed in different ways. I'm still bummed that I was never able to afford a denim-on-denim pantsuit, neon skisuit, pineapple suit, or brown leather bomber jacket. 

Since this takes place in summer we're really not seeing a lot of kids like we would if they were showing school scenes. I wonder what they'd do with those? Maybe show more variety?

The thin black chokers, crop tops, overall shorts, flannel shirts, slip dresses, etc were all pretty much popular mall clothes at the time. My only real fashion complaint are the shorts that Jeanette wears in 1993. The vertical stripes were definitely more 89-90. It makes sense, though. People don't change their wardrobes every year. Stuff always bleeds over.

My other complaint is the cordless phone with the long antenna. I'll give Vincent a pass on the see-through banana phone in 1995 (I kept mine til college) but by 93 We were using cordless phones without needing 6 inches of metal sticking out of the top. Especially by 95. 

I just chalked it up to people hanging onto things even when newer stuff was available. 

[Anela]

23 hours ago, mamadrama said:

 

All teen girls are a little sociopathic. I wouldn't return to 15 for anything. A lot of what's going on looks suspicious in context but out of? Not that unusual for a teen girl to "blossom" in a year. Or to lose interest in old activities or grow apart from old friends. Or to idolize another girl and develop a crush on her boyfriend. All these things are fairly normal. But in context of this story? Yikes.  

I dropped out because of bullying, when I was fifteen. I couldn't take it anymore. I don't subscribe to the whole "men are easier to deal with than women" because men have brought more drama to my life, but I wouldn't go back to high school age for anything, either. 

I didn't see the mirrors in the basement, but it did look like she was wearing a red dress when she was banging on the door, crying to be let out, and she was wearing a different dress when they met.

I was into the whole bodysuit with jeans, combined with a flannel shirt or one of those crocheted tops that were just  a pattern to wear over something like a bodysuit or tank top. Doc Martens, boots, or trainers. Also, the long skirts with the little tops and jackets (sometimes sleeveless). Slight heels with a wedge-like/good, strong heel, that felt more comfortable to me. Aah, I made the mistake of googling the outfits, and now I'm getting hit with that feeling that I want to go back. 

This is sort of what I was talking about, but not as a cardigan: https://gem.app/product/90s-crochet-sweater-sheer-cardigan-boho

Edited April 23, 2021 by Anela

[Megan]

I will not like it if it turns out that Mallory is gay and had a thing for Jeanette and/or Kate and that's why Mallory is being vindictive.

Especially since Vincent is also into Jeanette. Jeanette is kind of stupid and a mush mouth in 93-94.

Also, just like Kate I was born in 79, Jeanette is such an old fashioned name choice. My friends had Moms called Jeanette. She should have been Jennifer at minimum, or Becky or Kelly. Or really and it pains me, maybe even a Megan. ETA: Should have been Jessica!

Why Cruel Summer? That was early 80's?

I was in high school 94-97 and dressed a lot like Mallory. I lived in oversized Osh Kosh overalls, Levi 501s, Baby tees with that awful lettuce edge that's coming back right now, Vans, ESPRIT (my little town had an outlet!) and thrift shop tees and old man sweaters. Jansport backpacks. Body suits where more 90-93 middle school Wet seal for me in California. BEEPERS! Though I never had one that could send messages.

 

Apart from all that, I understand placing this in the 90's, cell phones and finger tip internet complicates mysteries.

Edited April 23, 2021 by Megan

[mamadrama]

3 hours ago, Anela said:

I dropped out because of bullying, when I was fifteen. I couldn't take it anymore. I don't subscribe to the whole "men are easier to deal with than women" because men have brought more drama to my life, but I wouldn't go back to high school age for anything, either. 

I didn't see the mirrors in the basement, but it did look like she was wearing a red dress when she was banging on the door, crying to be let out, and she was wearing a different dress when they met.

I was into the whole bodysuit with jeans, combined with a flannel shirt or one of those crocheted tops that were just  a pattern to wear over something like a bodysuit or tank top. Doc Martens, boots, or trainers. Also, the long skirts with the little tops and jackets (sometimes sleeveless). Slight heels with a wedge-like/good, strong heel, that felt more comfortable to me. Aah, I made the mistake of googling the outfits, and now I'm getting hit with that feeling that I want to go back. 

This is sort of what I was talking about, but not as a cardigan: https://gem.app/product/90s-crochet-sweater-sheer-cardigan-boho

I loved bodysuit. The first time I saw one was on Jennifer Aniston in LEPRECHAUN. I couldn't afford one so I wore a black bathing suit.

The mirrors lined the back wall. They could just be a metaphor, like how the girls' lives mirror each other, but I have a feeling.

You're right about the different clothes. Floral dress at the party, red on the stairs. 

This may or may not be me in in '95. 😜 You can't see the cowboy boots in the first one...

 

[CarpeFelis]

On 4/21/2021 at 11:18 AM, Jx223 said:

I also wonder what is the story behind Kate having Jeanette's necklace. Maybe she found it after she saw Jamie and Jeanette meeting up and kissing and decided to use it against Jeanette. Or maybe she ended up finding it in Martin's house at some point, before she was abducted. Jeanette could have accidentally lost it there, when her and her friends were playing hide and seek in the house. Maybe Kate found it right before she was locked in the basement.

It couldn’t have been lost when Jeanette was in Martin’s house with her friends. There was a scene (can’t recall whether it was in this episode or the previous one) where she put both the necklace and the key to Martin’s house away in her jewelry box when she got home that day.

My first thought when Kate said she was being dishonest was that she accused Jeanette falsely to get back at her for replacing her with Jamie and her friends. It wouldn’t have been too hard to find a duplicate necklace at the mall. But maybe she really was talking about having had some sort of relationship with Martin before he locked her up. 

Really wondering what had happened to Jeanette’s mother by 1995.

I keep having “10 Things I Hate About You” flashbacks because at times Kate looks like a dead ringer for Julia Stiles back in the ‘90s. They should have cast Julia to play her mother.

[LittleIggy]

I noticed that there was a pair of stilettos on the basement stairs when Kate was banging on the door.

[Anela]

2 hours ago, Megan said:

I will not like it if it turns out that Mallory is gay and had a thing for Jeanette and/or Kate and that's why Mallory is being vindictive.

Especially since Vincent is also into Jeanette. Jeanette is kind of stupid and a mush mouth in 93-94.

Also, just like Kate I was born in 79, Jeanette is such an old fashioned name choice. My friends had Moms called Jeanette. She should have been Jennifer at minimum, or Becky or Kelly. Or really and it pains me, maybe even a Megan.

Why Cruel Summer? That was early 80's?

I was in high school 94-97 and dressed a lot like Mallory. I lived in oversized Osh Kosh overalls, Levi 501s, Baby tees with that awful lettuce edge that's coming back right now, Vans, ESPRIT (my little town had an outlet!) and thrift shop tees and old man sweaters. Jansport backpacks. Body suits where more 90-93 middle school Wet seal for me in California. BEEPERS! Though I never had one that could send messages.

 

Apart from all that, I understand placing this in the 90's, cell phones and finger tip internet complicates mysteries.

I was in high school 90-92. :) we moved back here from England, and I studied at home, going to see teachers once a week. I was in California 1990-January 1994.  I started out in leggings and long tops. I turned 18 in 1993, so I guess I’m a bit older. 
 

I’m going to watch the two episodes again, so that I can see what I missed when I wasn’t giving it my full attention. 

[mamadrama]

1 hour ago, LittleIggy said:

I noticed that there was a pair of stilettos on the basement stairs when Kate was banging on the door.

And they looked identical to the ones the mom wore at the party in 1995. (They began the scene with a closeup of them.)

[mandymax]

I caught up on this show yesterday and am completely sucked in!  I do like they way they've handled the year-jumping with the lighting - warm and golden for '93, normal for '94, and dark and menacing for '95.  Not only does it make it easy to tell them all apart, but it plays into the characters as they were in any given year.

I also noticed the different outfit when Kate was banging on the basement door to be let out.  My first thought, given how tense things had gotten at home, was that she formed this bond with Martin that turned romantic, and she ultimately ran away and he hid her so they could play house - hence the fancy clothes, like at-home date night - but it quickly went south and he kept her captive.

Something HUGE had to have happened for Jeannette to go from total nerd to It Girl in the span of twelve months, complete with the last It Girl's boyfriend who apparently adores her and It Girl friends who suddenly looked up to her the way they did Kate.

[mamadrama]

I hate myself for starting this show. I wish I'd waited until all the episodes were out. I have 0 patience anymore. The urge to binge is too great. 

[methodwriter85]

20 minutes ago, mamadrama said:

I hate myself for starting this show. I wish I'd waited until all the episodes were out. I have 0 patience anymore. The urge to binge is too great. 

This is totally the type of show that needs to be in binge format.

[ParadoxLost]

It seems like from the timing that Kate began accusing Jeanette, made clear by boyfriend punching Jeanette on her arrival just after they heard Kate was found, that at least one of three things must be true

1. Jeanette did see Kate in the basement.  Or at least there was a circumstance where Kate feels certain she did.

2. Martin taunted her through her abduction that she had been replaced by Jeanette causing Kate to lie

3. Her mother was so bitter over Jeanette slipping into Kate's social life that nearly the first thing she did when being reunited with Kate was spill all her bile about it causing Kate to lie.

Its rather impressive that in a single episode they painted a portrait of the Mom that made #3 seem plausible.  But I'm not sure the portrait of Kate they painted makes that seem plausible.  It also seems unlikely that Kate would figure out how to get her hands on Jeanette's necklace to keep a spontaneous accusation going in the third scenario.  I'm going with 1 or 2.

[Cranberry]

I like the theory that Kate saw Jeannette through a two-way mirror. Those mirrors lining the basement wall (and the fact that they made Jeannette uneasy when she first broke into the house) seem significant. However, if they are two-way, then the person seeing through them as if they're a window would be outside the basement, not inside -- if Kate was looking at them from within her basement jail, she'd just see herself.

I also saw this comment left on the promo for episode three:

Quote

Theory: I think it's possible that Kate thought she saw Jeannette, but she actually saw Mallory. It's fair to assume that Jeanette and Mallory had a fight somewhere along the lines of their friendship breaking down when Jeannette threw the necklace at Mallory/gave it back somehow, so Mallory would have it. Also, after they egged the first garden party, Mallory rode away on Jeanette's bike, meaning when Kate ran after them she saw Jeanette on Mallory's bike before she rode away, too. I think that she sees Mallory's bike later (after being kidnapped) and assume it was Jeannette riding it.

I did think it was odd that the girls ended up on each others' bikes when fleeing the garden party (and Kate did see them then), so that could make some sense. However, Mallory and Jeannette really don't look alike, so I don't know.

I wish we could binge this one, too. Theorizing is fun, but this is probably one of those shows we can't figure out until we see more of the story.

[starri]

Well, I'm well and truly hooked.  Like everyone else, I think I would have already finished it if it was binge-able.

Kate is awesome.

[KaveDweller]

9 hours ago, Cranberry said:

I like the theory that Kate saw Jeannette through a two-way mirror. Those mirrors lining the basement wall (and the fact that they made Jeannette uneasy when she first broke into the house) seem significant. However, if they are two-way, then the person seeing through them as if they're a window would be outside the basement, not inside -- if Kate was looking at them from within her basement jail, she'd just see herself.

It depends who put in the two-way mirrors. If you had a secret room in your basement where you planned to keep a teenager girl, you would not want people in the rest of your basement to see her. So you'd have them think they saw a mirror. But you may want the victim to be able to see out as some kind of torture method. If the mirrors were originally in the basement for some less nefarious reason, it could be the reverse.

But it seems like this would be easy to check. The police would have searched the basement and seen if there were two way mirrors.

If Kate did see Jeanette through a two-way mirror, or if Jeanette saw her for real, I am curious what she was doing in Mr. Harris's basement. We know she kept the key, but why would she enter his house?

[willco]

Some really good theories on here ! I think that Kate & Martin were definitely involved before the abduction. I'll be surprised if that turns out not to be. 

 

The very 1st time we saw those big mirrors in the hide & seek house, I thought they had to be be 2-way ! (I've probably seen too many movies :)

Most of my other thoughts have already been posted. I will say I'm probably way outside the demographic that this show is going for, but I am enjoying it. This is the 1st show I've watched on Freeform ever, I think. I used to watch a few things when it was ABC Family, but it's been so long ago, I can't really remember what they were !

[CrystalBlue]

1 hour ago, willco said:

Some really good theories on here ! I think that Kate & Martin were definitely involved before the abduction. I'll be surprised if that turns out not to be. 

 

The very 1st time we saw those big mirrors in the hide & seek house, I thought they had to be be 2-way ! (I've probably seen too many movies :)

Most of my other thoughts have already been posted. I will say I'm probably way outside the demographic that this show is going for, but I am enjoying it. This is the 1st show I've watched on Freeform ever, I think. I used to watch a few things when it was ABC Family, but it's been so long ago, I can't really remember what they were !

I'm definitely not in the demographic they're going for either.

[RedInk]

I’m thinking the thing Kate’s not being “entirely truthful” about is her prior relationship with the principal, but the thing that’s tripping me up about Kate seeing Jeanette while abducted is how different she would look to Kate. In the first episode, I wasn’t even sure it was the same actress. The girls aren’t close...would she really recognize her in a few fleeting moments? The hair, makeup, braces, clothes...those are the Jeanette identifiers. And would she still be wearing that dumb necklace? I agree that it could have been her friend who dropped the necklace & Kate made the connection. She would definitely remember it.

Total nitpick: This episode was a little better at matching the time period, stylistically, but I was 18 in Texas in the summer of ‘95, and pretty much none of this tracks for me. Unless Jeanette is just a level of outcast I didn’t know? 

 

[SoMuchTV]

On 4/21/2021 at 7:23 PM, KaveDweller said:

We saw Jeanette wearing the necklace after the hide and seek scenes, so she didn't lose it then. But I agree she could have found it somewhere else.

My first thought about Kate having the necklace was, those things are a dime a dozen (well, 7 bucks) at the mall. And Kate was even there when it was purchased. So she could easily come up with a duplicate. But then if Jeanette did still have the original, she could easily have produced it to disprove Kate’s claim. But on the third hand, Kate could claim that Jeanette could have bought a replacement. So overall the whole necklace thing seems like a wash. 

[LittleIggy]

22 hours ago, CrystalBlue said:

I'm definitely not in the demographic they're going for either.

Me either! Never watched anything on Freeform before. So happy I checked this series out based on a promo I saw on another network!

[peachmangosteen]

I finally got around to finishing both eps. I feel like I don't really like it but at the same time I wanna keep watching it so I don't know lol.

UO but I think the acting is pretty bad. Olivia Holt is not good imo. But her scream at the end was straight-up amazing. The Janette actress has this annoying little laugh she's adding in too much imo.

It seems so blatantly obvious that Kate had some kind of relationship with Martin prior to him abducting her and that makes me think maybe she didn't lol. I also wondered if maybe Martin wasn't even the person who actually held her captive but I'm not sure how that would work.

On 4/23/2021 at 12:38 AM, LittleIggy said:

I noticed that there was a pair of stilettos on the basement stairs when Kate was banging on the door.

I figured those were just Kate's. At first, because of the dress and shoes, I wondered if maybe Kate had been at a dance prior to that scene but then I remembered it was summer so there was no school. The person speculating that maybe Kate and Martin were on some kind of date and then he locked her in the basement might be onto something based on the dress/shoes.

I for one am so glad this show is not an 'all eps available at once' one. IMO this type of show is so much better when it's weekly and you can read people's different theories and speculate about it all.

[peachmangosteen]

Oh, and I forgot to mention this: does anyone have any spec on what happened to Ben that he blames on Janette? 

When he appeared in this ep at the gas station I was like who the hell is this? I don’t remember him from the first ep. I also thought I got the vibe from that scene that he had a crush on Vincent and that maybe it was mutual but then someone here said Vincent has a crush on Janette so I guess I was reading that wrong

[Jx223]

I also think that the two way mirror theory that some people are speculating about is interesting. I could definitely see something like that being revealed in this story. And I agree with those about this show being a the type of show that would be great for binge watching.

22 hours ago, RedInk said:

I’m thinking the thing Kate’s not being “entirely truthful” about is her prior relationship with the principal, but the thing that’s tripping me up about Kate seeing Jeanette while abducted is how different she would look to Kate. In the first episode, I wasn’t even sure it was the same actress. The girls aren’t close...would she really recognize her in a few fleeting moments? The hair, makeup, braces, clothes...those are the Jeanette identifiers. And would she still be wearing that dumb necklace? I agree that it could have been her friend who dropped the necklace & Kate made the connection. She would definitely remember it.

Total nitpick: This episode was a little better at matching the time period, stylistically, but I was 18 in Texas in the summer of ‘95, and pretty much none of this tracks for me. Unless Jeanette is just a level of outcast I didn’t know? 

 

I think that Jeanette may have gotten her makeover before Kate disappeared. Last week they showed Jeanette (already made over in her "It girl" look,) watching the news. The reporter mentioned that Kate had been missing for like four days. Maybe Jeanette had her makeover done before then and Kate saw her with her new look before she was abducted.

Also, I have a theory about the gun shot that Jeanette, Vincent and Jamie heard. Maybe that shot was the police killing Martin. (Though, I don't know how close Kate's house is to Jeanette's). It does look like that Kate was found shortly after Jeanette's birthday in '94. Maybe the three teens heard Martin being shot and then very shortly after like the next day or so, they found out that Martin was killed.

And I wonder who or what exactly tipped the police off to Martin being the one who abducted Kate? I think finding out how that happened, and them having a showdown with them could be another interesting part of this story. I wonder if someone else finally started to suspect Martin and led the police to his house and Kate. I do believe that Jeanette could have suspected something was going on between those two, (though she may not have known exactly what and didn't tip off the police).

 

Edited April 27, 2021 by Jx223

[peachmangosteen]

3 minutes ago, Jx223 said:

Also, I have a theory about the gun shot that Jeanette, Vincent and Jamie heard. Maybe that shot was the police killing Martin. It does look like that Kate was found shortly after Jeanette's birthday in '94. Maybe the three teens heard Martin being shot. (Though, I don't know how close Kate's house is to Jeanette's).

Someone else mentioned the teens heard the gunshot at night and Kate was shown being escorted out of Martin's house in the day time so it doesn't seem like the gunshot those 3 heard could have been Martin being shot by the police.

[karma705]

My husband came up with the theory that Kate and Martin were having an affair.  She wanted to break things off - he didn't - she threatened to out to him to the police, hence him throwing her in the basement.  As far as Jeanette, we think she knew about the affair but didn't tip off the police, which could be why she blames Jeanette. 

[SoMuchTV]

On 4/27/2021 at 10:58 AM, peachmangosteen said:

Oh, and I forgot to mention this: does anyone have any spec on what happened to Ben that he blames on Janette? 

When he appeared in this ep at the gas station I was like who the hell is this? I don’t remember him from the first ep. I also thought I got the vibe from that scene that he had a crush on Vincent and that maybe it was mutual but then someone here said Vincent has a crush on Janette so I guess I was reading that wrong

Can someone remind me who Ben is?  I rewatched both of the first 2 eps because I wasn't really paying attention the first time, and I still can't pin him down.  Was he one of the country club waiters?  Classmate of someone?

[KaveDweller]

3 minutes ago, SoMuchTV said:

Can someone remind me who Ben is?  I rewatched both of the first 2 eps because I wasn't really paying attention the first time, and I still can't pin him down.  Was he one of the country club waiters?  Classmate of someone?

I think he's Jamie's friend.

[peachmangosteen]

39 minutes ago, SoMuchTV said:

Can someone remind me who Ben is?  I rewatched both of the first 2 eps because I wasn't really paying attention the first time, and I still can't pin him down.  Was he one of the country club waiters?  Classmate of someone?

 

35 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

I think he's Jamie's friend.

If Jamie is the guy that was Kate's bf, then Janette's bf, then Kate's bf again then, yes, Ben is his friend lol.

[SoMuchTV]

41 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

I think he's Jamie's friend.

 

6 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

 

If Jamie is the guy that was Kate's bf, then Janette's bf, then Kate's bf again then, yes, Ben is his friend lol.

Thanks.  I didn't catch that Jamie was developed enough to have any friends, but that makes sense.

[JenE4]

On 4/27/2021 at 5:29 PM, Jx223 said:

I also think that the two way mirror theory that some people are speculating about is interesting. I could definitely see something like that being revealed in this story. And I agree with those about this show being a the type of show that would be great for binge watching.

I think that Jeanette may have gotten her makeover before Kate disappeared. Last week they showed Jeanette (already made over in her "It girl" look,) watching the news. The reporter mentioned that Kate had been missing for like four days. Maybe Jeanette had her makeover done before then and Kate saw her with her new look before she was abducted.

Also, I have a theory about the gun shot that Jeanette, Vincent and Jamie heard. Maybe that shot was the police killing Martin. (Though, I don't know how close Kate's house is to Jeanette's). It does look like that Kate was found shortly after Jeanette's birthday in '94. Maybe the three teens heard Martin being shot and then very shortly after like the next day or so, they found out that Martin was killed.

And I wonder who or what exactly tipped the police off to Martin being the one who abducted Kate? I think finding out how that happened, and them having a showdown with them could be another interesting part of this story. I wonder if someone else finally started to suspect Martin and led the police to his house and Kate. I do believe that Jeanette could have suspected something was going on between those two, (though she may not have known exactly what and didn't tip off the police).

 

Most of the time we see Jeanette watching the news, she’s watching VHS tapes. So, I think the takeaway there isn’t that her makeover happened quickly, but rather she was obsessed with “reliving” the case and the news even BEFORE Kate was found and she was accused of not helping. Soooo... is it because of concern for the safety of the neighborhood, guilt for not helping, or just wanting to see pictures and hear more stories of the popular girl she’s obsessively trying to emulate?

Regarding other people’s comments on the potential for two-way mirrors, I don’t think Kate was there in the basement yet at the time when Jaenette was playing hide-and-seek. We saw a flash-forward of an undetermined date in which Kate was in that main room of the basement, up by the basement door, and bars were covering the windows. We saw Jaenette in that same main room of the basement, with the windows unobstructed. So that wasn’t when Jaenette supposedly saw her. That was also before the party, so we know Kate was fine and not yet kidnapped by that point.

We’re in late June 1993 now. Kate said she thinks it was sometime in December (1993) when Jaenette saw her, but can’t be sure since she didn’t have a way to tell the passing of time. Had she said something, she would have been found “months sooner,” though we know that she was found in June 1994. We don’t yet know when Kate was kidnapped. I really thought it was going to happen when she was drunk on the playground, but now I think they’re really going to drag it out. We might not even see her get kidnapped until the season finale. They made a point of Martin being the new school principal, so we’re in the summer before the school year, and I won’t be surprised to see Martin interacting with both Kate and Jeanette in school throughout the rest of 1993, and she might be kidnapped like even just days or weeks before Jaenette sees her. (Like maybe the whole thing goes down Christmas break week or something...though, this is called “Cruel Summer,” not “Cruel Winter.”)

...IF that’s true, that Jeanette saw Kate, that is. I’m not sure, and the only thing I am sure about is that they purposely don’t want us to know which girl is lying! But we did see Jaenette put the necklace AND Martin’s key in her jewelry box, so she does have the means to return there again, and somehow that necklace makes it out of that jewelry box and into Kate’s hands.

This show is spectacular! As was mentioned by many, the actress playing Jaenette is truly fantastic at playing the three distinct personalities and how life experiences really changed her. The golden, neutral, and dark lighting is really stupendous. I haven’t quite mastered the immediate recognition of everyone else’s haircut timelines since they’re not as obvious as Jaenette’s looks, but the ambiance of the lighting helps me to immediately understand which timeline we’re in. This is such a unique concept for a show. I’m totally hooked!

Edited April 29, 2021 by JenE4

[calliope1975]

On 4/22/2021 at 8:19 PM, Megan said:

She should have been Jennifer at minimum, or Becky or Kelly. Or really and it pains me, maybe even a Megan. ETA: Should have been Jessica!

As a Jennifer who graduated high school in '94 and at one point, had 7 fellow Jennifer's in a Home Economics class...yes. My friends were Megans, Jessica, and my BFF was a Stephanie.

I'm really enjoying this show so far, and they're doling out just enough information each ep to keep me hooked. It really reminds me of an episode of a show called Monsterland on Hulu that had basically the same premise. Popular girl goes missing, less popular girl is taken in by friendgroup, starts dating the missing girl's boyfriend, and then missing girl pops up on the wedding day. That whole show was hit or miss but this one was an okay ep except the popular girl's friendgroup immediately turn on their new friend and get vaguely racist. Anyhoo. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt11489148/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_6

 

[JenE4]

Ok, so I just said how I don’t think two-way mirrors would be the explanation for why Kate saw Jeanette but not vice versa. And now I see that there are literally mirrors in their promo ads! So maybe all of the mirrors in the basement do come into play. Though, the way there are two mirrors at a 90 degree angle, that almost had a house of mirrors affect, so they could have even been in the same room but just at different angles and seen different things. Though, I suppose it’s just as likely the advertising agency had no knowledge of the aerobics studio set up in the basement and just liked the concept of the girls reflecting their personalities off of each other, lol.

[Jax7917]

On 4/27/2021 at 10:58 AM, peachmangosteen said:

Oh, and I forgot to mention this: does anyone have any spec on what happened to Ben that he blames on Janette? 

When he appeared in this ep at the gas station I was like who the hell is this? I don’t remember him from the first ep. I also thought I got the vibe from that scene that he had a crush on Vincent and that maybe it was mutual but then someone here said Vincent has a crush on Janette so I guess I was reading that wrong

Yes I got the same vibe that he had a crush on Vincent . He kept looking back at him in a flirty way even when talking to the girls . 

[FozzyBear]

On 4/26/2021 at 4:48 PM, SoMuchTV said:

My first thought about Kate having the necklace was, those things are a dime a dozen (well, 7 bucks) at the mall. And Kate was even there when it was purchased. So she could easily come up with a duplicate. But then if Jeanette did still have the original, she could easily have produced it to disprove Kate’s claim. But on the third hand, Kate could claim that Jeanette could have bought a replacement. So overall the whole necklace thing seems like a wash. 

I have 2 theories 

1. Jeanette lost the necklace in the house at some point and that’s how Kate got it. It doesn’t mean Jeanette saw Kate there. She was breaking in a lot to wander around and could have lost it at anytime. But Kate found somehow and it reinforced Kates belief that she saw Jeanette. And if Jeanette thinks she lost it in the house that would explain why she’s being cagey about it. Jeanette didn't see Kate but Kate believes she did and Jeanette knew something that she never told anyone about, even if it was something she didn’t understand or think was a big deal at the time.

2. The principal was framing Jeanette for some reason and gave Kate the necklace to prove Jeanette was a coconspirator. He may have even been the one to encourage Jeanette to take over Kates life and then told Kate to prove that no one was looking for her and she was trapped. Maybe he caught Jeanette breaking in and befriended her and helped her become popular and at some point gets a hold of the necklace. He gave Kate the necklace as proof that Jeanette saw her but didn’t help and after months of being told that Kate believes it and convinces herself she and Jeanette saw each other.  Jeanette feels guilty that she was in the house talking to the principal while Kate was trapped and that guilt makes her act weird enough to look guilty of other stuff.