S01.E09: The Series Finale

[Primal Slayer]

It was good but as satisfied as it left me, it also left me disappointed and a little pissed off.

Wanda vs Agatha was great! Wandas new outfit is an OUTFIT!
Vision vs. Vision was also good, though a little disappointed that White Vision was able to see the light so quickly.
The WandaVision family....was emotional as hell and it left me in my feels!

But I was expecting a little bit more? I think this suffered from a little to much hype from not only the cast/crew but also fans. I wish I had never gotten into all the fan theories lol. They were SO GOOD that I got my hopes up to high.

Pietro...i do not care, I am pissed off to my core that he just ended up being some nobody. That was just downright dirty and such a waste. There was absolutely no reason to do a stupid recast if it wasnt FoxPeter. No reason. It was the shows biggest shocker imo when he showed up so for it to literally go nowhere..sorry but im mad.

They said that this would tie into Doctor Strange, which im sure once we see the movie it will but....it was very loose on the connection, I was expecting something stronger.

They kept going on and on about this fake "Luke Skywalker moment" and there was none. DIRTY.

Overall I love the series as a whole but the last episode definitely brought the show from a high 9 or 10/10 to an 8/10.

[Lassus]

3 hours ago, Peace 47 said:

or otherwise help (a la Spider-Man 2 with Tobey Maguire on the subway)

Your idea is bad, and you should feel bad.

I kid.  You probably shouldn't feel bad.

But let's not mention Tobey Maguire or that terrible ending ever again.  Or you're getting the runes.

Edited March 5, 2021 by Lassus

[Kromm]

30 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

They kept going on and on about this fake "Luke Skywalker moment" and there was none. DIRTY

Nobody associated with the show actually called it that. I believe an interviewer made the comparison and Bettany simply joked about a cameo with someone he always wanted to work with.  Marvel didn't lead us there... a smartass actor and fan theories spinning out of control did. 

[Primal Slayer]

12 minutes ago, Kromm said:

Nobody associated with the show actually called it that. I believe an interviewer made the comparison and Bettany simply joked about a cameo with someone he always wanted to work with.  Marvel didn't lead us there... a smartass actor and fan theories spinning out of control did. 

It was stated to them "will we have a Luke Skywalker moment namely a casting that she can’t believe hasn’t leaked yet " and it was replied with "yes" not a "watch and see" 

That part of things I can somewhat deal with and get over but Peter/Pietro will be the one that I will be pissed about and will be a sore spot when rewatching the series. 

[Lassus]

I was never attached to that Pietro anyhow.  I simply thought it was clever and a great feint.  

3 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

It was stated to them

Who's "them"?

[ShadowHunter]

1 hour ago, Primal Slayer said:

It was good but as satisfied as it left me, it also left me disappointed and a little pissed off.

Wanda vs Agatha was great! Wandas new outfit is an OUTFIT!
Vision vs. Vision was also good, though a little disappointed that White Vision was able to see the light so quickly.
The WandaVision family....was emotional as hell and it left me in my feels!

But I was expecting a little bit more? I think this suffered from a little to much hype from not only the cast/crew but also fans. I wish I had never gotten into all the fan theories lol. They were SO GOOD that I got my hopes up to high.

Pietro...i do not care, I am pissed off to my core that he just ended up being some nobody. That was just downright dirty and such a waste. There was absolutely no reason to do a stupid recast if it wasnt FoxPeter. No reason. It was the shows biggest shocker imo when he showed up so for it to literally go nowhere..sorry but im mad.

They said that this would tie into Doctor Strange, which im sure once we see the movie it will but....it was very loose on the connection, I was expecting something stronger.

They kept going on and on about this fake "Luke Skywalker moment" and there was none. DIRTY.

Overall I love the series as a whole but the last episode definitely brought the show from a high 9 or 10/10 to an 8/10.

You don't have to be sorry people are mad about Evan Peters being nobody on Twitter, Reddit, etc. I had a feeling he was not going to be around much when I saw they were filming Doctor Strange 2 and he is filming American Horror Story.  

I agree about the show being a bit overhyped lol. I know people prefer to watch TV differently but with future marvel shows I'll just binge them. No more week to week for me lol.  

This show had great moments and fun ones. I think the first 2 episodes could have been combined into one. The acting was good. This is just me personally but I feel a bit underwhelmed. 

[AimingforYoko]

Fitting punishment for Agatha, but that can't last. Which is good, because that means more Kathryn Hahn.

So we get teasers into Captain Marvel 2 (and Secret Invasion, probably) and Doctor Strange 2. The Scarlet Witch + The Darkhold = Trouble.

[shireenbamfatheon]

There really is zero accountability for MCU protagonists.

[Danny Franks]

So White Vision was incredibly creepy. As usual in Marvel, anything the US government creates ends up being evil, and almost anyone who rises to power in said government and its institutions is also evil. Although Hayward suddenly became absurdly, 80s-action-movie-level evil.

The Vision vs Vision fight was a bit bleh for me. Just lots of indeterminate flying action. But it was hardly the emotional core of the episode, so whatever. Their philosophical debate was much better, and made complete sense when they were perfectly matched physically.

Agatha was a full on Disney villain, which is obviously fitting. Freeing Dottie and the rest of the town and forcing Wanda to face up to what she's done was especially cruel. But villains who are able to point exploit the guilt and mistakes of the hero are always the best villains.

Yes, the show did revert to the Marvel Formula at the end - a CGI-laden face off between the hero and villain - but I like that they've let Wanda keep elements of darkness to her character. And her new costume is fucking fire. Marvel keep finding ways to make comic-faithful costumes work on the screen, when you'd think there's no way they could.

The goodbye between Wanda and Vision was really well done, and further cements Wanda as the most tragic of the MCU characters. She just keeps losing, and she walks away knowing that all those people hate and fear her. But now at least she may have a healthier way to occupy her time, learning how her powers work (*cough, mutant, cough*).

The complaining about things that fans completely built up in their own heads not happening feels like a precursor to Spider-Man: No Way Home when Garfield and Maguire don't show up - No Doctor Strange, no Mark Hamill, where's Mephisto etc. "Pietro" was a meta joke and that's fine. When the mutants do arrive, they won't have anything at all to do with Fox's awful interpretation of them.

Post-credits - Skrulls! Cool! Talos is going to be back again. And Wanda getting her magic on, hopefully figuring out how the multiverse works.

 

[FnkyChkn34]

6 hours ago, vb68 said:

I hope you guys have good analysis of the second credit scene because I'm not sure I really understood what was actually happening there. 

Before I read what others have to say, my take on it was that the scene is directly parallel to a scene in Dr. Strange.  It's not an alternate universe, just an alternate consciousness; Dr. Strange was able to learn everything he could so fast because he did the same thing.  It's a quick scene soon after he gets to Kamar-Taj.  While his body is physically training, his mind is intellectually learning.

[Lassus]

My ONLY negative on the whole episode was quite literally the last second.  I really didn't like the kids voices showing up so immediately after that poignant goodbye, seemed an unnecessary misstep.

I like the insane THE FLOWERS MEAN SQUADRON SUPREME theories being given a hard slap over the more accessible resolutions and narrative of Wanda and Vision's growth - and Olsen and Bettany's acting.  (That being said, I'm pretty sure her insanity/heel turn is still a definite, just later.)

Edited March 5, 2021 by Lassus

[FnkyChkn34]

5 hours ago, Kromm said:

I actually liked it, I just see how if people were expecting more, they won't.  I mean even Bettany's tease was just that. He meant himself. 

I love that he meant himself!  Such a fake-out!  But hilarious. 

I liked it too; it was a very satisfying ending that leaves the door open just enough for more to come.

[Lassus]

32 minutes ago, shireenbamfatheon said:

There really is zero accountability for MCU protagonists.

I know I should care about it.  But.  I don't.  I don't need every real-world consequence explored in my fantasy escapism.

[FnkyChkn34]

This has actually made me so excited for Dr. Strange 2 that I might actually go see a movie, in the theater, on opening weekend, for the first time in... ever. I don't get the hype about needing to be the first one to see something, but since I am one of the few who loved the first Dr. Strange so much, and now this...  yeah, I might have to do it.  

[swanpride]

I am completely okay with Pietro being nobody. But that is partly because I DON'T want the Fox x-men in the MCU, and to me this was the guarantee that it wouldn't happen.

The hype aside, I think there were a lot of things in the finale which just didn't really feel like they fell into place perfectly. There was the way the townspeople acted...it didn't make sense that they were all running away without fetching their kids first (and I know, that was most likely due to budget restrains, but still), it didn't make sense how they were all standing around staring at Wanda in the end (at this point I would be either busy looking after my children, running away from Wanda screaming or trying to attack her in anger, none of this felt natural), the way Darcy just vanished, Monica's mini-role, the whole Vision vs Vision fight (I liked that it was solved by talking but not the fighting beforehand)...somehow all of this was clunky.

And I also can't really get behind the fact that after a season which was basically Wanda's trauma tango, we end with piling EVEN MORE trauma onto her, and she being AGAIN utterly alone to deal with it. After everything which happened I wanted someone at Wanda's side to help her. I mean, it is nice that Monica understands, but that doesn't change the fact that she isn't with Wanda to help her. And Wanda needs help, desperately. Her trauma isn't just gone because she confronted it, she still has a lot of healing to do. Never mind the new trauma of losing her f... children. Just...give her a break, please?

On a side note: It was also a little bit cruel towards Agents of Shield fans to put so many references to the show into this and then not officially acknowledging it at all. It would have been so cool if the big surprise in the end would have been not some random Alien, but Daisy or Coulson being there to tell Monica that she was needed.

[AimingforYoko]

3 minutes ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

This has actually made me so excited for Dr. Strange 2 that I might actually go see a movie, in the theater, on opening weekend, for the first time in... ever.

Somewhere, Kevin Feige is rubbing his hands together and cackling.

[FnkyChkn34]

2 minutes ago, swanpride said:

And I also can't really get behind the fact that after a season which was basically Wanda's trauma tango, we end with piling EVEN MORE trauma onto her, and she being AGAIN utterly alone to deal with it. After everything which happened I wanted someone at Wanda's side to help her. I mean, it is nice that Monica understands, but that doesn't change the fact that she isn't with Wanda to help her. And Wanda needs help, desperately. Her trauma isn't just gone because she confronted it, she still has a lot of healing to do. Never mind the new trauma of losing her f... children. Just...give her a break, please?

In my opinion, this is where the set-up for Dr. Strange 2 comes in.  What are Kamar-Taj and the satellite sanctums, if not places to heal?  Dr. Strange's power comes from his mind, not something physical.  Pure speculation on my part, but it'll be Dr. Strange who helps Wanda the most in the upcoming movie.

[Lassus]

11 minutes ago, swanpride said:

And I also can't really get behind the fact that after a season which was basically Wanda's trauma tango, we end with piling EVEN MORE trauma onto her, and she being AGAIN utterly alone to deal with it. After everything which happened I wanted someone at Wanda's side to help her. I mean, it is nice that Monica understands, but that doesn't change the fact that she isn't with Wanda to help her. And Wanda needs help, desperately. Her trauma isn't just gone because she confronted it, she still has a lot of healing to do. Never mind the new trauma of losing her f... children. Just...give her a break, please?

While I get this, I feel like they actually showed her dealing with the grief and various forms of acceptance.  I was expecting much, MUCH worse.  

12 minutes ago, swanpride said:

On a side note: It was also a little bit cruel towards Agents of Shield fans to put so many references to the show into this and then not officially acknowledging it at all. It would have been so cool if the big surprise in the end would have been not some random Alien, but Daisy or Coulson being there to tell Monica that she was needed.

I agree it would have been nice, but too cute.  And time marches on.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

2 minutes ago, swanpride said:

And I also can't really get behind the fact that after a season which was basically Wanda's trauma tango, we end with piling EVEN MORE trauma onto her, and she being AGAIN utterly alone to deal with it. After everything which happened I wanted someone at Wanda's side to help her. I mean, it is nice that Monica understands, but that doesn't change the fact that she isn't with Wanda to help her. And Wanda needs help, desperately. Her trauma isn't just gone because she confronted it, she still has a lot of healing to do. Never mind the new trauma of losing her f... children. Just...give her a break, please?

Notice what Monica said before Wanda flew away, because Wanda asked, "So you don't hate me?" Because Monica told her, "Given the chance, and if I had your powers? I'd bring my mom back. I know I would."

Honestly, the only thing that's keeping me from being totally destroyed on her behalf is the hope that she can get better, because seeing her standing in the empty foundation of where her house with Vision used to be had me crying all over again. I was really hoping for some last minute solution where at least Vision would still be with her and they could find the boys together, but I guess she had to lose everything - again - so she can get a firmer handle on her powers. How did she get the book, though?

[Lassus]

16 minutes ago, swanpride said:

I am completely okay with Pietro being nobody. But that is partly because I DON'T want the Fox x-men in the MCU, and to me this was the guarantee that it wouldn't happen.

Absolutely.

[tarotx]

If a powerful witch tells you to run, you run. To save their children they were going to need help. And they knew Wanda was suffering and that she had the power to make things worse. 

Evan Peters was used to give the audience the same WTF that Wanda was feeling with the emergence of her brother. It wasn't just to mess with fans for no reason other than to mess with us. Though showrunners have been known to do that 🙃

The emotion was top notch in this episode and the whole show. All the performances were on a high level. 

I would have loved to see Darcy more but I have a feeling there is a reason she wasn't at the final end moment with Monica and Woo. Rather that was actor related or because they are doing something with Darcy that explains her leaving Westview without us seeing her respond to the show she was invested in, I don't know.

Wanda is more powerful than the sorcerer supreme and she was astro learning in the end credits scene like Doctor Strange. I think that was enough to suggest more to come on Doctor Strange 2. I don't need a Benedict Cumberbatch cameo.

 

Though I did come in with the knowledge that Elizabeth Olsen is already filming for Doctor Strange. And that the young actors playing Billy and Tommy have posted social media stuff showing they are both near where DS2 is filming.

Edited March 5, 2021 by tarotx

[VCRTracking]

Me, an Agents of SHIELD fan when they mentioned the Darkhold:

Thank you 20th century FOX for crapping up adapting the Phoenix story so hard, twice that the MCU could do a superior version with the Scarlet Witch.

Edited March 5, 2021 by VCRTracking

[ItCouldBeWorse]

3 hours ago, SeanC said:

Hayward/SWORD's whole role was extremely perfunctory (somehow they were planning to defeat a bunch of magic users by driving up and shooting them with regular guns), but the rest was solid.

I don't think he can be found guilty of trying to shoot the kids, since the kids aren't actual people, even if he didn't know that.

[lambertman]

Given the locale of the final scene, I was pretty surprised that the final sitcom SW chose to recreate was "Dexter" 😁

[FnkyChkn34]

9 minutes ago, tarotx said:

Wanda is more powerful than the sorcerer supreme and she was astro learning in the end credits scene like Doctor Strange. I think that was enough to suggest more to come on Doctor Strange 2. I don't need a Benedict Cumberbatch cameo.

  Reveal spoiler

Though I did come in with the knowledge that Elizabeth Olsen is already filming for Doctor Strange. And that the young actors playing Billy and Tommy have posted social media stuff showing they are both near where DS2 is filming.

No, but who wouldn't want one anyway?  😉

I don't think that's a spoiler?  She was just on Jimmy Fallon and talked about it, and I feel like it's been known for awhile.  But I guess I should have put some of my comments in spoiler tags?

[tarotx]

4 minutes ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

No, but who wouldn't want one anyway?  😉

I don't think that's a spoiler?  She was just on Jimmy Fallon and talked about it, and I feel like it's been known for awhile.  But I guess I should have put some of my comments in spoiler tags?

It's not info that came from Wandavision so I wasn't sure. I thought it better to secure than to accidentally spoil. You probably know the rules for this forum better than I do.

You're right I would have loved a Benedict Cumberbatch cameo but I know he would be an expensive cameo.

Edited March 5, 2021 by tarotx

[Abra]

I'm disappointed in myself that it took reading this forum to realize that Ralph was revealed to be a real person, named Ralph. It didn't even register that Fietro's real name was that Ralph when I was watching it. And that I didn't realize that the Skrull talking to Monica in the mid-credits scene was referring to Nick Fury when she mentioned a friend of her mom's. I'll blame it on not sleeping well last night.

I was bored by a lot of the CGI action, but happy (when not sobbing) about most everything else. I wish there had been one more trio scene before the show ended, I love them (what was that bullshit excuse for not having Darcy show up again?).

I'm content that my need to know about certain characters (more than Dottie for Emma Caufield, Monica's aerospace engineer guy, Jimmy's WitSec guy, Ralph, Fietro being a multiverse character) didn't pan out. This was a show about Wanda and her grief, and that's really what we got. Anything else was on me

Wanda's goodbyes to Vision and her children were simply beautiful. I really hope Elizabeth is nominated for an Emmy.

 

[FnkyChkn34]

1 minute ago, tarotx said:

It's not info that came from Wandavision so I wasn't sure. I thought it better to secure than to accidentally spoil. You probably know the rules for this forum better than I do.

No, I doubt that I do, and I don't want to get in trouble either. 😉 

[VCRTracking]

 

 

 

[Featherhat]

37 minutes ago, swanpride said:

And I also can't really get behind the fact that after a season which was basically Wanda's trauma tango, we end with piling EVEN MORE trauma onto her, and she being AGAIN utterly alone to deal with it. After everything which happened I wanted someone at Wanda's side to help her. I mean, it is nice that Monica understands, but that doesn't change the fact that she isn't with Wanda to help her. And Wanda needs help, desperately. Her trauma isn't just gone because she confronted it, she still has a lot of healing to do. Never mind the new trauma of losing her f... children. Just...give her a break, please?

 

I'm Okay with that for now...It would have been great if she had ended up in Kamar-Taj getting support or with a Monica recommended therapist or even Darcy (assuming Monica is going to be busy elsewhere). But given that in many corners of the internet there are a lot of people variously outraged that Wanda didn't either turn both evil and mad or get hauled off and that Hayward was 100% right, I'm settling for the fact that she's not got a magic suppressing collar on in some SWORD oubliette somewhere. 

In the original plan it wouldn't have been that long between this and Doctor Strange 2. Which cannot come fast enough.

[Chaos Theory]

I have been trying to put into words what I thought about the finale and for the most part I really enjoyed it.   It avoided one of the things what I feared it would do the whole  "you need to watch the next movie to see how this all ends......"  which would have pissed me off because I haven't actually gone to a theater in years and only actually watched The Avenger movies in fast forward because they are on Disney Plus.

Now I expected this all to end very badly for Wanda and her to lose her family but she had time to heal and she had time to actually say goodbye to them this time so even though I cried alot I found it all very sweet and cathartic instead of just plain sad.   When she thanked the twins for choosing to be her sons I almost lost it.   I knew the show wouldn't end happily because its not that kind of show.     But I did like that the show gave the boys their turn to be heroes at least against Hayward.  Who along with Agatha was the real villain of the story.  Shooting at a couple of kids.   I loved watching Darcy riding in in her clown car and crashing into him as he tried to run away again.  That was classic.

The Ralph reveal was ok but not really necessary but kinda funny anyway.   

Not sure if you would call this a happy ending or a sad ending....or just an ending.  Because no one really got what they wanted.  And yeah Wanda can't even live in the house Vision bought for her because the Westview citizens kinda (for good reason) hate her. 

Even though Wanda is still alone she is able to process it now.   I think before she was alone with no one.  Now at least she has friends.  Jimmy, Monica, Darcy.    She is processing her hurt.  Its a start.

 

 

Edited March 5, 2021 by Chaos Theory

[paigow]

55 minutes ago, AimingforYoko said:

Somewhere, Kevin Feige is rubbing his hands together and cackling.

Feige: [Internal Monologue] That fucking Kathleen Kennedy got lucky. She thinks one good series makes up for that trilogy. I am inevitable. 

[thuganomics85]

Hah, Paul Bettany really was likely referring to the Vision/White Vision face-off when he was talking about working opposite of someone he has always wanted to "all his life."  You sly dog!

Loved that there was no more twist when it came to villains, and Agatha was the true threat that Wanda had to overcome.  And it led to her pretty much going full-blown Wicked Witch of the West on this joint, which I highly approve.  Kathryn Hahn was truly perfection in the role and I'm glad they left the door open for a possible return.  Because while Wanda did defeat her, wiped her memories, and turned her back into the "nosy neighbor", well, come on!  You know something like that won't keep Agatha down for long.  Either she'll figure something out or another potential threat will cause Wanda (or someone else?) to bring her back into the fold.  Can't wait!

Vision vs. White Vision was fun, but it's almost fitting that it ends not with punching, but a psychological discussion.  And now it looks like White Vision has the original Vision's memories, which I'm sure is a way to keep him (and Paul Bettany) around in the MCU some more.  I do wonder where he went off to though?  Does he need time to process all of this?  Is he still not emotionally invested in Wanda (yet) and that's why he didn't come back to her?

I know I should be satisfied over Hayward being arrested, but I wouldn't have been against him getting at least one magical blast from Wanda.  Not enough to kill him, but you know...

Fake Pietro really was just some dude named Ralph Bohner, huh?

Surprised over the lack of Darcy for this one.  Maybe Kate Dennings' availability was limited near the end?

Don't blame the Westview folks for being just a wee bit miffed at Wanda at the end.  Sure, she was going through a lot, but magically trapping a town and making its citizens your playthings (even unwittingly) is something that is just a bit more than a kerfuffle.  Realistically, yeah, Wanda would have a lot to answer for and probably should turn herself into the authorities, but it's in character for her to go into isolation instead.  Plus, it's not like the MCU heroes really have to deal with consequences the way you're suppose to.  Except Scott.  Poor Ant-Man is the only one who knows what it is like!

Monica might be going to space next!

Woo's getting his authority on!

Wanda's got her Scarlett Witch outfit!  And it looks awesome!

All in all, a pretty good finale for what ended up being a pretty great show.  I figured I was going to like it going in because, duh, it's Marvel, and I tend to like their stuff no matter what (I can still even pull positive moments from their weaker installments like Iron Man 2 and Thor: The Dark World.)  But this show truly exceeded my expectations and might be one of the most unique things Marvel has put out.  I loved the sitcom elements and how that all played out, and how the show was able to take a bunch of supporting characters from the films and give them true moments to shine here. 

And, of course, there was the acting.  From fresh faces (for the MCU) like Teyonah Parris and Kathryn Hahn hitting the ground running and crushing it, to Kate Dennings and Randall Park having fun with more screen time that let them truly shine, the supporting cast was spot-on across the board.  And then there was Paul Bettany and especially Elizabeth Olsen as Vision and Wanda.  It was thrilling getting to watch these two expand upon the characters that were more "supporting" in the films, and make them just as layered and interesting as the heavy hitters on film.  And while Bettany was certainly his normal, amazing self, Olsen truly was remarkable here and; again; in a just world would at least be getting award consideration.  I guess I can always hope (like that time one year where the Emmy voters actually recognized the likes of Rami Malek and Tatiana Maslany for more "genre fare.")  Either way, this show is already a contender for one of my favorites this year and I can't wait to see what is in store next for the MCU!

Edited March 6, 2021 by thuganomics85

[Cobalt Stargazer]

2 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

Fake Pietro really was just some dude named Ralph Bohner, huh?

"Heh. Bohner."

 

[cambridgeguy]

21 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

I'm Okay with that for now...It would have been great if she had ended up in Kamar-Taj getting support or with a Monica recommended therapist or even Darcy (assuming Monica is going to be busy elsewhere). But given that in many corners of the internet there are a lot of people variously outraged that Wanda didn't either turn both evil and mad or get hauled off and that Hayward was 100% right, I'm settling for the fact that she's not got a magic suppressing collar on in some SWORD oubliette somewhere. 

That debate mirrors what would have happened if she had turned herself in or anything like that.

Westview residents - toss her in the deepest, darkest hole you can find and throw away the key.  Or just put a bullet in her.

Shady government types - She's a weapon, so lets figure out a way to control her.

Most of the Avengers - Lets teach her to control her powers.  The trauma she caused can't be undone, locking her up just neutralizes someone who can do some real good.  She'll make up for this by Avenging for the rest of her life.

[tennisgurl]

*Wipes tears* I'm not crying...your crying...

While I think that this could have maybe used an extra episode or two, at least partially because I am just not ready for the show to end, I thought this was a satisfying ending to what was a really excellent and unique series. I hope that this will lead to the MCU continuing to do new and different things, even if I cant imagine how they would top "superheroes end up in breakdown simulated sitcom world" but I bet that they could. I am really glad that Wanda made the right if very hard choice, but that this episode wasn't just a never ending parade of misery for her. Her having to say goodbye to the boys and the Vision she created was just an absolute heartbreaker, but there is still hope that she can find her family again. White Vision has his memories of Visions whole life and is still around, and it seems like the boys might still be out there somewhere and Wanda just needs to find them, so there is still hope that Wanda could find her family. Plus she is now working on getting control of her powers, even astral projecting to learn more from the Darkhold which will lead us into Doctor Strange 2, which I need NOW. Right now, come on Wanda, wave your hands and give it to us now!

I did certainly get excited about some things that were really just red hearings (pun kind of intended) and that is a big disappointing to me, but its not like that's the shows fault. No Mephisto (for now) Pietro was just some guy named Ralph, so no "Ralph as Mephisto" and he really wasn't Peter from X-Men, and while those would have been cool and they may be foreshadowing things that happen in later movies, its fine that they really were just speculation. I don't want to be right about everything, its no fun if I can tell every single thing that's going to happen. I wish we had a few more answers though, like what the deal was with the commercials or why some things were happening, like the meaning behind the hexagons some other bits that didn't turn out to be anything, and I wish we got more of Jimmy/Monica/Darcy in this episode, who didn't end up getting much to do, with Monica getting the most and Darcy the least. She basically just disappeared, and while Jimmy got to at least call in backup and use his skills at close up magic to help save the day, I wanted a bit more. I do like that they are implying that Jimmy will be more of a leader in MCU law enforcement going forward, and Monica is basically getting her own superhero origin story. She got to help save the boys with her powers, and it turns out there was a Skrull among them (kudos to everyone who guessed that they were around) and she is heading up to space, just in time for Captain Marvel 2! It just sucks that Darcy got the shaft. 

We also ended up with another MCU flying around fight scene, but I still think this one did manage to make things more unique, with Vision appealing to White Visions logic by talking philosophy with him and basically downloading himself into him before he just left, and Wanda's fight used some actual cool magic stuff with the giant runes and was more about her emotional breakthrough than just beating Agatha. Her finally telling Agatha to shove her villain monologuing and that she would decide her future was a great moment for Wanda. Plus her outfit looks amazing, they really gave her classic costume a great modern twist. It certainly looks comic book-y but also appealing to a visual medium.  

If anyone was still conflicted about Hayward being the bad guy, he just straight up tried to murder the boys, he could not have been dragged off in cuffs fast enough. Oh yeah, that's some good catharsis. Agatha is also taken down, being mind wiped into being wacky neighbor Agnes, but I doubt this is the last we'll see of her. The Wicked Witch of Westview is too fun a bad guy to be permanently taken down. 

That ending scene with Wanda's family just hit me right in the heart. Even if I am hopeful that they will be reunited, its still so hard watching Wanda lose everything all over again. Elizabeth Olsen really is amazing, she is an absolute superstar and I am so excited that she is going to be a bigger part of the MCU moving forward. Her goodbye to Vision was hard enough, but what really killed me was her putting the boys to bed and thanking them for choosing her. And so soon after they had their big Incredibles superhero family moment too. Wanda has made a lot of mistakes, but she is just such a sad tragic person who has lost so much over and over again and has really tried to do what she thought was the right thing so many times, only for it to go wrong, I just want her to get a break. 

I would have been happy with a cameo from Doctor Strange or someone, but I am fine with them just lightly teasing future films and letting this movie stand on its own. A lot of these interconnected franchises fall apart when they spend more time as trailers for follow up movies than movies themselves, even some of the more lower tier MCU movies, so I am glad they were focused on just telling this story for now. They are clearly setting up for Doctor Strange 2 and Captain Marvel 2, and I am glad that we have gotten so much time with Monica, who I absolutely love, but I think focusing on this story was the right choice. 

There is a lot more to say, but I am thrilled with this show and while plot wise I think there were some loose ends, emotionally I feel very satisfied. What an absolute ride this has been. Its not only one of my favorite MCU properties but my favorite show of the year so far, and I know that I am going to watch it several more times. It sucks that will probably never get any awards love, but if I could magic Emmys for everyone here, I would. 

Edited March 5, 2021 by tennisgurl

[VCRTracking]

 

[calliope1975]

Really enjoy sobbing so hard I had to pause and go to a different room on an early Friday morning. But, for real, I loved it. I liked and had fun with the fan theories but never got too attached since I knew there was no way to please everyone. And after this trip through the stages of grief, Wanda is finally at acceptance. I'm fine with her "punishment" being self-banishment to learn control of her powers. Something Bruce Banner would approve of as well. 

I'm so happy the boys are still out there...somewhere. And that there's a new version of Vision, too. And, while currently neutralized, Agatha is still in the roster. 

The family fight stance was awesome. Who's the First Family of Marvel now? Oh wait, this family has disbanded. And how fantastic (no pun intended) was the Scarlet Witch outfit. Pants people. And I bet they have pockets. 

My only criticism was the lack of Darcy. I was hoping for another interaction between Monica, Jimmy, and Darcy since they started as a little team. I'll accept a Jimmy/Darcy spinoff to make up for it. 

 

 

[SeanC]

1 hour ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

Notice what Monica said before Wanda flew away, because Wanda asked, "So you don't hate me?" Because Monica told her, "Given the chance, and if I had your powers? I'd bring my mom back. I know I would."

I thought that was a really terrible line (as well as Monica acting like the townsfolk will never understand her loss, as if that’s where the emphasis should be).

If they were going to place so much emphasis on how awful the Hex was for people stuck in it, they should have had Wanda (and the viewer predisposed to like Wanda) deal with that, rather than doing everything in the denouement to let her off the hook.

She doesn’t even speak to the townspeople after, or do anything to make amends, she just flies off and it’s all good because Monica has no problem with her.

[absnow54]

I misheard Jimmy when he called “Cliff.” I could have swore he said “Clint” and was confused when he never showed up. I thought it was weird that no one thought to call Clint to begin with, since he probably would have straightened things out in under an episode. 
 

I’m still not sure how I feel about this episode. Underwhelmed, I guess. It checked off a lot of boxes that people were speculating. Wanda got her (amazing) new costume. The Vision got Vision’s memory upload, and I guess is taking some time to digest it. And Wanda is starting to tap into her magic. I guess I was expecting more, but they’re saving the multiverse stuff for the movies. Trolling with Fietro was brilliant and certainly got me invested in a show I was otherwise just watching for the sitcom references. 

[SeanC]

4 hours ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

Unless you want everyone to have consequences, particularly characters like Barnes since none of the Winter Soldier's victims are less dead just because Bucky didn't mean to kill anyone, there will always be some handwaving of punishment.

Bucky was brainwashed — there’s no legal or moral standard where he would be responsible for anything the Winter Soldier did.

Wanda didn’t intentionally start the Hex over the town, but it’s unambiguous that she continued it even though she knew what it meant.  We see that numerous times.

There certainly are characters who have done terrible stuff in the MCU and faced limited consequences for it (see: Loki), but dramatically that also hinges on where the creators choose to place emphasis.  The show spent far too much time on the victims of the Hex to just dismiss it the way they do at the end.

[calliope1975]

Forgot to mention my appreciation of only Agatha's boots being left behind when she got a car dropped on her. Nicely done.

[Kromm]

1 hour ago, Abra said:

And that I didn't realize that the Skrull talking to Monica in the mid-credits scene was referring to Nick Fury when she mentioned a friend of her mom's. I'll blame it on not sleeping well last night.

It could also be Talos.  It could even be Carol Danvers, although that's the least likely of the three due to all of the implied conflict between Monica and her. 

[dwmarch]

I didn't like the Darkhold reference because they totally changed the look of it. I know, it's a powerful book of dark magic hence it can look like whatever it wants but it has been in two different Marvel shows already (it also appeared in Season 3 of Runaways) and it had a consistent appearance so here it feels like Feige crapping on Marvel Television rather than paying tribute to it.

I wish there had been some payoff to the witsec person Jimmy originally came to Westview looking for. I'd assume the FBI agents took care of this but they could have mentioned it.

Hey Wanda, if your solution to Agnes was to sentence her to life as the nosy neighbor you might want to fly back over to Westview and get your car! There's a folder full of your personal information sitting on the passenger seat! The first question a nosy neighbor who lives next to an empty lot will ask is "whose car is this? Oh look! A folder on the seat! Maybe that will tell me who this belongs to..." Also, Agnes' house still has the runes in the basement so if she wanders down there she'll find herself in a space where your magic won't work and hers will.

I'm kind of glad the kids turned out to be wish fulfillment that disappeared at the end. Disney is not going to go into detail on the logistics of how Vision can procreate so I'm okay with leaving it as "it was magic!"

I wish there had been some explanation of where White Vision got his powers. Whatever he has in his head, it isn't an Infinity Stone. Okay, you animated him with some of Wanda's magic. But how is it being stored? Did they invent an Infinity Cubic Zirconia or something?

[tennisgurl]

Its really hard to parse legal consequences in a world full of magic and powers and mind control and all kinds of other craziness. It was basically what Civil War was about, and even then we never really got an answer to the legality of super heroics. Even Tony's attempts at cleaning up collateral damage after The Avengers led to him accidently creating a new villain, its just hard to really figure these things out, in and out of universe. You don't want super people to just be allowed to do anything, especially if they're full villains like Agatha, but they still have rights and shouldn't be just thrown away because they have powers. Its even more complicated by situations like this where the actual intent and fault of a person is ambiguous. Wanda really didn't seem to mean to do this, her powers just lashed out in her grief and created this world and trapped these people, and while she probably should have accepted what was going on sooner and tried to put an end to it, she really didn't seem to think anyone was being hurt and only seemed to partially even comprehend what she was doing. So is imprisoning her for an accident the right thing? I don't think so, her learning to use her magic somewhere where she cant accidently hurt anyone seems like the right call. 

I swear, so many fictional universes where people have ridiculously high levels of power at their disposal would have so many of their problems solved if everyone who hit a certain power threshold was immediately assigned a therapist. Powers and unresolved trauma are never a great combination... 

[Cobalt Stargazer]

5 minutes ago, SeanC said:

I thought that was a really terrible line (as well as Monica acting like the townsfolk will never understand her loss, as if that’s where the emphasis should be).

I don't know, though. Monica's the only person to really try and get through to Wanda since she's been on canvas. When you remember that Maria died while Monica was Snapped (which wasn't prevented because the Avengers lost) there could have been ample reason for Monica to already have issues with Wanda outside of the creation of the Hex. Instead, she showed compassion and even empathy to the point of practically daring Wanda to kill her. That's where their connection is, no matter how tenuous, in their mutual loss that couldn't be prevented.
 

6 minutes ago, SeanC said:

Bucky was brainwashed — there’s no legal or moral standard where he would be responsible for anything the Winter Soldier did.

Wanda didn’t intentionally start the Hex over the town, but it’s unambiguous that she continued it even though she knew what it meant.  We see that numerous times.

What's also unambiguous is that MCU canon has forcefully established that the Winter Soldier's victims don't deserve justice. Not just Howard and Maria Stark, but anyone else who found themselves on his hit list. Saint Steve Rogers himself decreed that because Bucky "didn't mean to" then everyone is just supposed to be okay with the potentially unstable killing machine walking around free, so what moral standard are we talking about? If Bucky was totally innocent and not dangerous, it was wrong for him to go back into cryo in Wakanda, but that was his decision. Why do Wanda's victims matter and no one else's do?

[Kromm]

1 minute ago, tennisgurl said:

Its really hard to parse legal consequences in a world full of magic and powers and mind control and all kinds of other craziness.

I don't think it's as hard as people make it out to be... at least in this specific case. Nobody was mind controlling Wanda. Tossing in scenarios where people WERE mind controlled is just shifting the discussion. 

She also certainly wasn't insane in any conventional sense. There certainly is a concept of temporary insanity, but it's typically in the moment, not over days and weeks. 

And I think I already debated the "there's no specific law for this" idea.  There doesn't HAVE to be. 

I fully understand the MCU will handwave this and justify it via her saving the multiverse. I just think that because this was a MUCH deeper emotional dive into a character than Marvel has ever done, that we can't be quite as blasé about her transgressions. Six hours laying out her screw up means far more than 5 minutes laying out a previous screw up in another film.  The burden to justify it is proportionally bigger. 

[SeanC]

9 minutes ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

What's also unambiguous is that MCU canon has forcefully established that the Winter Soldier's victims don't deserve justice. Not just Howard and Maria Stark, but anyone else who found themselves on his hit list. Saint Steve Rogers himself decreed that because Bucky "didn't mean to" then everyone is just supposed to be okay with the potentially unstable killing machine walking around free, so what moral standard are we talking about? If Bucky was totally innocent and not dangerous, it was wrong for him to go back into cryo in Wakanda, but that was his decision. Why do Wanda's victims matter and no one else's do?

They do deserve justice — Bucky was completely innocent, however, so there’s no denial of justice there.  Justice would involve the people who ordered the assassinations.

Fixing Bucky’s brainwashing, as Wakanda’s scientists did, resolved the possibility of any future issues. Bucky was a victim, not a perpetrator.

Edited March 5, 2021 by SeanC

[VCRTracking]

I liked it and the thing I liked most about it is Wanda and Vision both used their intelligence to win. That is always more satisfying to me when the villain is outsmarted.

Edited March 5, 2021 by VCRTracking

[arc]

31 minutes ago, Kromm said:

It could also be Talos.  It could even be Carol Danvers, although that's the least likely of the three due to all of the implied conflict between Monica and her. 

Probably not Carol, since the referenced friend of Maria had a male pronoun.