S04.E09: Irresponsible Salad Bar Practices

[helenamonster]

Quote

Lim is challenged by the unique circumstances surrounding a pregnant patient with an aggressive tumor. Elsewhere, after misdiagnosing a patient, Claire makes a disconcerting discovery about certain practices at the hospital.

Original airdate: 2/15/21

[Annber03]

Ah, so that's where the episode title came from :p.

Interesting method Lea used to try and help Shaun sort out this issue. I did appreciate her reminding him that one can find another person attractive, even have a dream about them, without it automatically meaning anything deeper or more serious. But I can understand Shaun's concern, too, considering the earlier situation he had with Carly and Lea. Hopefully, though, this is the end of that worry and all will be okay from here on out. 

Really interesting cases tonight. I felt for poor Rio-what a wild situation to find himself in! I'm glad things turned out okay for him in the end. He and his fiance are cute and I can totally see them being awesome parents :). And I appreciated the conversation about racial disparity in treatment as well. I'm glad Claire was ultimately able to help Zara, and the talk between them at the end was good, too. Will be interesting to see how the hospital changes its policies in this regard going forward. 

(Also, speaking of Claire, she looked really cute at the end of the episode. I loved the outfit she had on.)

I very much sympathize with Lim's reasons for why she was afraid to let anyone else know she's been struggling. Even when one knows they need help, it's not easy to say so aloud. But it was good to see her opening up to Andrews at the end. I hope she continues to get all the support she needs going forward. 

Also glad to see Richard Schiff back on the show. Hope his recovery from COVID continues to go well. 

[DanaK]

In the case of the transgender patient, did I understand correctly that he would have to go off testosterone during the pregnancy and stay off it afterwards, which seemed to suggest he would revert back to female characteristics? If I didn’t misunderstand, why would he have to stay off of it after the pregnancy? If that wasn’t an issue, why was the fiancée so unsure about the pregnancy (other than the pregnancy surprise and complication) if things would be fine afterwards?

I agree that the cases were quite interesting tonight, with the surprise that it was Claire who stereotyped the hypertension patient

[Driad]

Pretty sure that Rio would be able to go back on testosterone after the baby was born.  

When Claire was in med school, she worked very hard to learn to become the best doctor she could be. I don't see that as trying to make white people comfortable.

I have never liked Lea much, but she handled Shaun's crush on the other resident well.

Feeling for Lim. Hoping she will be OK but probably there will be drama first.

[nokat]

Claire stereotyping a black woman and saying it's from having to meet white standards...I hate that this is so true. If you are a female of any race, good luck.

[PinkRibbons]

Fun fact: what Lim is taking is the generic name for Zoloft. For me it works (anxiety and panic disorder), although occasionally it gives me vicious heartburn. That being said, even if it works perfectly for Lim, she's not gonna see positive effects immediately. This episode had a lot of important subject matter to deal with but I need to see some destigmatization of mental illness and treating it with medication going forward. Lim has a chemical imbalance that's being treated. If she was taking insulin for diabetes or beta blockers for hypertension, would that be considered a sign of weakness? A doctor who ignores their own illness is a fool.

I say all that of course acknowledging that her point is valid, and that as a woman in a position of power, being seen as "fragile" could damage Lim's reputation and standing. And that sucks balls.

[possibilities]

I thought Lea was going to try to solve Shaun's problem by trying to scent herself with cinnamon and basically role play for him. I guess the salad bar behavior and enjoyment of pickles was a valid approach, though, and a lot less volatile. 

WHat Claire was saying was that not only did she try to be the best possible doctor, but she also tried to mimic whiteness in order to make white people comfortable, and in the process she developed resentment for people of color who don't do that, basically because the whole situation was extremely painful, and because the system she was conforming to carries that same aversion to POC that she was basically trying to fit in with. When you feel pressured to pass, and code switch on a permanent basis, it can be exhausting and stressful and alienating. But Claire pushed down her feelings of loss over it, on order to power through, and that led to her mistake.

 

[Vikingalto]

Concerning Claire “profiling” the patient in the ER... the woman presented in the ER was delirious! IMO, she wasn’t a reliable source of info. Claire used her best judgment to treat the patient, based on the symptoms. I’m disappointed that “The Good Doctor” caved to the leftist  “systemic racism”  “theory”.

[MaryHedwig]

7 hours ago, possibilities said:

But Claire pushed down her feelings of loss over it, on order to power through, and that led to her mistake.

I wondered if her judgment of the patient was also related to her high BMI. Fat is still one of the last safe prejudices in many circles.

[thuganomics85]

Damn, show!  Tackling both transgender issues and racial profiling/disparity in the medical field in the same episode?  You ain't holding back on the topical issues, tonight!  Obviously a bit heavy-handed at times, but I thought they were handled well.  It does seem like they make Shaun's... well, Shaun-ness, as an excuse to have other characters explain in detail about the dos and don'ts about social issues, but it does make sense that he would still make things awkward like he does.  At least he did apologize for his initial misstep and was able to get through to Rio's fiancee at the end.

The stuff with Claire and her patient was definitely interesting.  Sadly, I can buy that a woman of color like Claire would feel like she has to "conform" with what is expected of her in a field dominated by older, white men, and that would lead to her forming her own kind of prejudices and stereotypes without knowing it.  It at least looks like we are slightly getting better on that front (or at least acknowledging it more), but we still clearly have a ways to go.  And while not said out loud, I also had wonder if maybe Zara's weight was also playing a factor into Claire's judgement.  At least everything worked out surgery wise and Claire and Zara did have a conversation about it at the end.

So, today in relationship obstacles, Shaun discovers that just because you are in a relationship doesn't mean you quit finding others attractive or crushing on them.  Yeah, not surprised that kind of messed with him for a bit.  But while I normally agree that Park and Jordan would have been right for him not to tell Lea, I wasn't surprised that it actually helped.  While I'm still not wild about the pairing, I do think they're at the point where Lea realizes that Shaun is the guy who says the quiet things out loud, and it's best not to get too worked up or jealous about it.  And what better way to nip the crush in the bud by pointing out that his crush breaks salad bar etiquette by using the same tongs for everything?  Unforgivable!  Keep this doctor away from any Ruby Tuesday!

Glad Lim is finally addressing her issues and trying to get help.  Her explanation of her hesitation does make sense, sadly.  Christina Chang is really doing great work here.

[Granny58]

8 hours ago, PinkRibbons said:

Fun fact: what Lim is taking is the generic name for Zoloft. For me it works (anxiety and panic disorder), although occasionally it gives me vicious heartburn. That being said, even if it works perfectly for Lim, she's not gonna see positive effects immediately. This episode had a lot of important subject matter to deal with but I need to see some destigmatization of mental illness and treating it with medication going forward. Lim has a chemical imbalance that's being treated. If she was taking insulin for diabetes or beta blockers for hypertension, would that be considered a sign of weakness? A doctor who ignores their own illness is a fool.

I say all that of course acknowledging that her point is valid, and that as a woman in a position of power, being seen as "fragile" could damage Lim's reputation and standing. And that sucks balls.

I take Lexapro for anxiety/panic and had results within 5 days.  For me, it's a miracle.  I developed anxiety while ON Zoloft.  

[Granny58]

I LOVE The Good Doctor and I like ALL the characters.   Nobody gets on my nerves.  That said, I loathed this episode.  It was so preachy, I was infuriated.  Guess what.  If I come into an ER and I'm singing and acting high, they're gonna assume I'm high, and I'm a Euro-American.  Also, my husband is as much as a WASP as they come and HE has to defer to authority.  Learning to do that is not sexist or racist...it's normal.  To assume the way something makes you FEEL is based on race is itself a racist statement as you (the generic you...not anybody here) have zero idea of any assumption made in the minds of others...you only have your own assumptions.  

[Granny58]

8 hours ago, possibilities said:

I thought Lea was going to try to solve Shaun's problem by trying to scent herself with cinnamon and basically role play for him. I guess the salad bar behavior and enjoyment of pickles was a valid approach, though, and a lot less volatile. 

WHat Claire was saying was that not only did she try to be the best possible doctor, but she also tried to mimic whiteness in order to make white people comfortable, and in the process she developed resentment for people of color who don't do that, basically because the whole situation was extremely painful, and because the system she was conforming to carries that same aversion to POC that she was basically trying to fit in with. When you feel pressured to pass, and code switch on a permanent basis, it can be exhausting and stressful and alienating. But Claire pushed down her feelings of loss over it, on order to power through, and that led to her mistake.

 

I simply don't get it.  I have a loud goofy inappropriate personality.  I love to throw out inappropriate jokes when stressed or uncomfortable.  I CANNOT BE MYSELF EITHER IN PROFESSIONAL SITUATIONS.  That's just the way it is.  

the one storyline I could totally understand was Dr. Lim being reluctant to share that she has PTSD and needs help.  

[greekmom]

This was such a dumb episode.

1. I don't think Claire acted inappropriately.  You have a person coming in who's acting high as a kite. When asked where is her meds, she acts drunkenly stupid as she looks for it "oh it's here somewhere".  Claire gave her a chance to produce said medication.  She was running out of time.  There is also the predetermination that most people who sell cannibis also partake in it. For Zara to proclaim that she doesn't but acting like she's happy to be in ER led to doubt. I think if Zara had gone to a different hospital they wouldn't have even given her a chance that Claire did.

2. Shaun inappropriate questions. Please do not tell me that there isn't some course or seminar doctors have to take in regards to pronouns and how to address and be sensitive to transgendered patients. If not - then WHY THE HELL NOT?!?!  Shaun would have participated in some sort of sensitivity training even with his autism. I don't buy that he's asking such inappropriate questions.

3. The crush. In Shaun's dream he basically had Not Lea act the way Shaun does "I watch the weather channel but turn it down by two decimals". He's basically reflecting his need to have someone conform to his quirks and not have him confirm to nurotypical behaviour.

Glad Lim is accepting help for her issues. 

 

[hula-la]

46 minutes ago, Granny58 said:

I LOVE The Good Doctor and I like ALL the characters.   Nobody gets on my nerves.  That said, I loathed this episode.  It was so preachy, I was infuriated.  Guess what.  If I come into an ER and I'm singing and acting high, they're gonna assume I'm high, and I'm a Euro-American.  Also, my husband is as much as a WASP as they come and HE has to defer to authority.  Learning to do that is not sexist or racist...it's normal.  To assume the way something makes you FEEL is based on race is itself a racist statement as you (the generic you...not anybody here) have zero idea of any assumption made in the minds of others...you only have your own assumptions.  

I'm assuming that you conveniently missed the discussion of the fact that Black patients were consistently given fewer pain medications than White patients, with the same symptoms. Or, the countless studies (not discussed on the show, but alluded to at the end of the episode) that show that Black (and Indigenous) patients are routinely not believed about their symptoms, given lesser treatment, or are considered to be on drugs, and then treated accordingly, when they aren't. These aren't just lived experiences, they are actual facts. That you were so infuriated that the show discussed that Black people are being treated differently in medicine speaks volumes.

[Granny58]

31 minutes ago, hula-la said:

I'm assuming that you conveniently missed the discussion of the fact that Black patients were consistently given fewer pain medications than White patients, with the same symptoms. Or, the countless studies (not discussed on the show, but alluded to at the end of the episode) that show that Black (and Indigenous) patients are routinely not believed about their symptoms, given lesser treatment, or are considered to be on drugs, and then treated accordingly, when they aren't. These aren't just lived experiences, they are actual facts. That you were so infuriated that the show discussed that Black people are being treated differently in medicine speaks volumes.

I have had to step up and demand meds for various things as well.   The volumes I'm speaking are just common sense and standing up for oneself.   If you perceive something different in my posts that it "speaks volumes" then you are making assumptions as well.  

Edited February 16, 2021 by Granny58

[Granny58]

47 minutes ago, greekmom said:

Shaun inappropriate questions. Please do not tell me that there isn't some course or seminar doctors have to take in regards to pronouns and how to address and be sensitive to transgendered patients. If not - then WHY THE HELL NOT?!?!  Shaun would have participated in some sort of sensitivity training even with his autism. I don't buy that he's asking such inappropriate questions.

Oh there most certainly are these courses and seminars....endlessly so.  

[possibilities]

There are studies that show that white patients are treated better and given more credibility and pain management than POC patients. It might not happen EVERY TIME. But it is not an assumption or a feeling or a hunch. It is a documented fact, statistically speaking, which means that MANY times it does happen.

Whether or not the show portrayed this well is something that people can disagree about, but the issue they were trying to portray is well-documented and leads to things like higher death rates for patients of color. This is a real issue in medicine and society, and not just a feeling.

 

[Aliconehead]

In medical text books it literally says that black people have a higher tolerance for pain which leads to black people being under prescribed pain meds.  During slavery times, black people were experimented on with out pain meds which is what started this fallacy.  There father of modern gynecology started this with horrific torture of black women. There is a real problem with systemic racism in medicine because of what is/was taught and what is/was in medical text books. Black people are seen as drug seekers when not.  People with Sickle Cell anemia are turned away or told they should not need much pain med.  this is a huge problem. 
 

you combine this with a high BMI and you have Claire’s reaction. , many doctors don’t listed to overweight people in pain or sick.  They tell you too lose weight and the problem will go away.  I am sorry but my weight has nothing to do with my ear infection.  
 

Claire was racist. 

[Granny58]

24 minutes ago, possibilities said:

There are studies that show that white patients are treated better and given more credibility and pain management than POC patients. It might not happen EVERY TIME. But it is not an assumption or a feeling or a hunch. It is a documented fact, statistically speaking, which means that MANY times it does happen.

Whether or not the show portrayed this well is something that people can disagree about, but the issue they were trying to portray is well-documented and leads to things like higher death rates for patients of color. This is a real issue in medicine and society, and not just a feeling.

 

not saying it is a fallacy or a feeling...I'm saying that people cannot know what is in the other person's mind.  EVERYTHING is not racist.  Racism surely occurs, no doubt.  

This past autumn I ended up in the ER with a spiking BP.  I take BP meds too.  I was given more meds, a different one...just like the patient Claire treated.  The difference is I wasn't singing and acting giddy.  If I had been they would have taken a tox screen...and I wouldn't blame them.  

Edited February 16, 2021 by Granny58

[Annber03]

1 hour ago, Aliconehead said:

In medical text books it literally says that black people have a higher tolerance for pain which leads to black people being under prescribed pain meds.  During slavery times, black people were experimented on with out pain meds which is what started this fallacy.  There father of modern gynecology started this with horrific torture of black women. There is a real problem with systemic racism in medicine because of what is/was taught and what is/was in medical text books. Black people are seen as drug seekers when not.  People with Sickle Cell anemia are turned away or told they should not need much pain med.  this is a huge problem. 

There was an episode of "Last Week Tonight" that explored this issue in depth and they shared quotes from some medical textbooks to show just how incredibly ignorant and racist they were when talking about how to treat black people, as well as other minorities. And some of those books still push that same ignorant and racist nonsense even within recent years. 

It was horrifying, to say the very least. 

[Granny58]

36 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

There was an episode of "Last Week Tonight" that explored this issue in depth and they shared quotes from some medical textbooks to show just how incredibly ignorant and racist they were when talking about how to treat black people, as well as other minorities. And some of those books still push that same ignorant and racist nonsense even within recent years. 

It was horrifying, to say the very least. 

They still use the books?  Where?  Do you remember?  That is absolutely shocking in the 20th century (yes, I know we're in 21st, but should have been outlawed over 100 years ago).

[tennisgurl]

What a roller coaster day for Claire, so many highs and lows. I actually thought that Claire assumed that the patient was high because of her issues with addiction due to her mom and now Lim self destructing, especially when she heard the patient ran a pot distillery, which I think has happened with her before, but it being a racial bias on Claire's part was a really interesting way to take it instead. I am glad that they talked about the issues of how people of color receive different treatment than white people on average, usually in them not getting the pain meds that they need or being listened to, and tying it into Claire's story of how she feels like she has to act a certain way to fit in with the mostly white male establishment was a good way to talk about the issue. Hopefully we see them making more of an effort in the future, even if its just a passing mention or two. Glad that Clare apologized, that she got to save the day, and the talk they had was nice, and I also liked the talk the patient had with Glassman, it was admirably honest, if probably uncomfortable. "So you want me to stay here because your just a little bit less racist than the other hospital?" "Yeah?" 

I am glad that Lim is finally getting help for her obvious PTSD, especially now that its clearly affecting her work on the operating table. I understand her worry about losing her position if people start thinking of her as "crazy" or "unstable" but not treating a sickness is just not a good choice, no matter what. If your arm is broken, you don't usually just go about your day with your broken arm, you get it treated. Mental illness should be the same, even though its sadly not treated the same way due to outdated stigma. Hopefully the end means that she and Claire will make up as well, even if they maybe should learn a lesson about crossing professional boundaries and being friends with your boss. 

The story with the trans guy and his fiancé was nice, I am really glad things worked out for them they seem like a really sweet couple. What a wild situation though, getting pregnant while still being a man, that baby shower is certainly going to be unique. Sometimes I think that they use Shaun's lack of filter a bit too often to have him say something inappropriate so that he can get a talk and he (and the audience) can learn about something, but I did like his apology with the fiancé and their talk afterwards. I usually like those "Shaun says insensitive thing" bits when it actually leads to some character growth or to further the story. 

Loved Park and Jordan grabbing chairs and hurrying over to get the tea when Shaun said he kissed the other doctor. The whole story with Shaun's crush was pretty well done, I am glad that it didn't become super dramatic and that Lea took things in stride and tried to help him get over his crush. Normally I would say that its not necessary to tell your partner if you think someone else is hot, as long as it doesn't go any further than having a little crush, but considering how much Shaun obsesses over things, plus after what happened with his last relationship, being honest was probably the best call.  

[greekmom]

4 hours ago, possibilities said:

There are studies that show that white patients are treated better and given more credibility and pain management than POC patients. It might not happen EVERY TIME. But it is not an assumption or a feeling or a hunch. It is a documented fact, statistically speaking, which means that MANY times it does happen.

Whether or not the show portrayed this well is something that people can disagree about, but the issue they were trying to portray is well-documented and leads to things like higher death rates for patients of color. This is a real issue in medicine and society, and not just a feeling.

 

I think you hit the nail on the head right there. It wasn't well portrayed. I liked the actress and they could have used her alot better if they rewrote her "case" to display how POC and even overweight people are discriminated.  

[rmontro]

17 hours ago, Driad said:

When Claire was in med school, she worked very hard to learn to become the best doctor she could be. I don't see that as trying to make white people comfortable.

That bit kind of bugged me too.  So she worked hard to become a good doctor?  And the problem is what?  I understand what they were trying to say here, but this struck me as a poor example.  It's not like they hadn't already spent the rest of the episode seeing how many woke messages they could cram in.  And of course if the hospital is under-prescribing pain meds to people of color, they need to fix it.

I've had some medical education.  There is a thin line there between respecting and being aware of cultural difference, and profiling.

This was one of the few times I enjoyed the Shawn and Lea storyline, I actually thought it was kind of cute.  Specifically Lea putting in the detective work on her "rival", and Shawn not wanting to hear about the physical therapist.  

[statsgirl]

The highlight of the episode for me was at the 4 minute mark when Lim said "Says the white guy." that said a lot about both Lim's position and Glassman's. As a white male, Glassman could admit to having a hard time. As a woman from a minority group, Lim has to be more perfect than perfect.

After that, it dissolved into a PSI of mixed up arguments. There was no attempt to separate systemic racism (what the residents learned from their medical books) from Claire's and Lim's need to fight to be seen as perfect (as Ottawa mayor Charlotte Whitton said "“Whatever women do they must do twice as well as men to be thought half as good. Luckily, this is not difficult.”) from Zara attributing people not believing her to her race. (My father was a white male M.D. and his doctors didn't believe him either.)

It was a good idea but they spoiled it for drama.

16 hours ago, possibilities said:

WHat Claire was saying was that not only did she try to be the best possible doctor, but she also tried to mimic whiteness in order to make white people comfortable, and in the process she developed resentment for people of color who don't do that, basically because the whole situation was extremely painful, and because the system she was conforming to carries that same aversion to POC that she was basically trying to fit in with. When you feel pressured to pass, and code switch on a permanent basis, it can be exhausting and stressful and alienating. But Claire pushed down her feelings of loss over it, on order to power through, and that led to her mistake.

Very true.  But it's not limited to colour, it's also true for sex, class and culture. In  the last century, a lot of white male doctors came from Europe to America and many of them got treated like crap.

Claire was confronted by a patient with high BMI, who appeared high on drugs, and with a full prescription bottle for her hypertension. House's mantra was "everybody lies" so thinking that this patient was lying about taking her medication regularly was not a sign of prejudices.

Shaun is smart enough to learn all the medical stuff he needs so why can't he learn that there are personal questions that you cannot ask patients just because you're curious? Personally I blame Glassman.

Shaun dreaming of Dr. Sousa as a mirror of himself suggests to me that there are holes in his relationship with Lea.  Lea pointing out the radiologists quirks is really not a functional way to deal with the situation, but then her relationship with Shaun isn't actually functional either. They perfect for each other.

[rmontro]

1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

Claire was confronted by a patient with high BMI, who appeared high on drugs, and with a full prescription bottle for her hypertension. House's mantra was "everybody lies" so thinking that this patient was lying about taking her medication regularly was not a sign of prejudices.

I immediately thought of House during that scene.  "Everybody lies" is just the status quo in the David Shore universe.

[jabRI]

Just realized Dr. DeSouza was the annoying Chloe from Rookie Blue. Knew I recognized her from someplace.  I wish they would change up Lea's wardrobe, I tired of the sweater & corduroy college look.

Love Dr. Lim, but I don't know why she needs to announce her PTSD to all and sundry.  It's between her and her therapist.

 

[racked]

Was Zara delirious when she first came into the ER because of her heart condition? I couldn’t completely follow the medical part of things there. Her BP was high and Claire gave her drugs to lower them. Is that bad because she was already taking BP medicine and it was too much? 

[juno]

12 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Christina Chang is really doing great work here.

She is really amazing and has stepped it up this year. The acting is great on this show.

2 hours ago, jabRI said:

Love Dr. Lim, but I don't know why she needs to announce her PTSD to all and sundry.  It's between her and her therapist.

No idea why she decided to tell anyone else as this is a personal medical condition and no one's business. She could have started mental health treatment and gone on medication without anyone knowing. By telling others she has made them a part of her situation good or bad.

[Starchild]

On 2/15/2021 at 11:41 PM, DanaK said:

...why was the fiancée so unsure about the pregnancy (other than the pregnancy surprise and complication) if things would be fine afterwards?

I think he was also just generally freaked out about having a kid so soon. He did say he thought it would be quite a bit later in their lives that they'd be having kids. I even got the sense he'd be fine if they never did.

By the way, I still say Shaun and Lea have zero chemistry. When will TPTB start listening to me and split them up already lol?

Edited February 17, 2021 by Starchild

[rmontro]

4 hours ago, jabRI said:

Love Dr. Lim, but I don't know why she needs to announce her PTSD to all and sundry.  It's between her and her therapist.

Probably to let everyone know she's getting help so they'll get off her back.

 

1 hour ago, racked said:

Was Zara delirious when she first came into the ER because of her heart condition? I couldn’t completely follow the medical part of things there. Her BP was high and Claire gave her drugs to lower them. Is that bad because she was already taking BP medicine and it was too much? 

IIRC it caused her to go into cardiac shock during a later procedure?  Maybe someone else can verify that or correct it, I've slept since then.

[possibilities]

3 hours ago, jabRI said:

 

Love Dr. Lim, but I don't know why she needs to announce her PTSD to all and sundry.  It's between her and her therapist.

 

I think she was taking a risk, but decided to open up because keeping things bottled up is not great for a person's mental health, and having confidantes and a support network is good for it. It's not unhealthy to be open about your life, to people you trust. But I have no idea why she decided to trust at that moment. Maybe because of the apology about the earlier insensitive remark, and realizing that by speaking about her own situation she might make it easier for others to seek help rather than waiting til they totally break down at a meeting?

It didn't seem like she just blurted it, so my guess is de-stigmatization and solidarity. And maybe her meds made her less on edge and more able to feel strong enough to speak up.

[bros402]

6 hours ago, statsgirl said:

Shaun is smart enough to learn all the medical stuff he needs so why can't he learn that there are personal questions that you cannot ask patients just because you're curious? Personally I blame Glassman.

It's because Glassman never pushed for Shaun to get social skills therapy. He desperately needs it.

[Fable]

I still like this show, but this episode was not my favorite, and overall, I realize I’ve been annoyed with the casting change.  I’m not feeling it with the new residents, I still miss Melendez, and removing Morgan from the surgical team seems like a misstep since they now need to shoehorn her into the show. 

In other news, Shaun and Leah are starting to bug me less.  It still feels like they are two teens playing grownup, but at least she gets him.  I think she is good for him. 

[whydoiwatchtv]

As a long time cannabis user that has been around many other cannabis users, I’ve never seen behavior like that. It looked like she had a bottle of booze. I just don’t like the portrayal that cannabis consumers are some whacked-out crowd that can’t control ourselves. Yes, there can be too many edibles which could lead to extreme paranoia but you’re scared, not singing like you’re at Karaoke. It’s another stigma I’d like to see disappear. You’d be surprised how many people around you are on a medical cannabis dose or even high recreationally. I’m sure there’s people that act goofy but that drunken, incoherent act made me laugh. 🤷🏻‍♀️
 

Liked the episode tho, the treatment of Black people in a medical setting has been well documented to be terrible and needs to be brought out, trans issues as well. Women and minority women having to act a certain way has been how it is forever, as well and I’m glad all were brought up by the show. 

[jabRI]

I am all for de-stigmatizing mental illness, it just seems like she would be farther along the treatment path before she'd bring it up.  And find a support system (again, at first) outside of the work place.

[PinkRibbons]

The reason Lim divulged her medication use at that moment was that you aren't supposed to mix sertraline with alcohol. Andrews bringing in a bottle of booze just happened to give her the opening she needed to say it.

[statsgirl]

I think it's also because she trusts Andrews and Claire with that kind of personal information. As far as I can tell they are her closest friends since she doesn't seem to have a life outside of the hospital, and Claire was the one who pushed her to seek help for her PTSD.

12 hours ago, bros402 said:

It's because Glassman never pushed for Shaun to get social skills therapy. He desperately needs it.

Glassman also lets it pass too often, he rarely seems to stop Shaun from behaving inappropriately and explain why it's wrong.

On 2/15/2021 at 11:41 PM, DanaK said:

 If that wasn’t an issue, why was the fiancée so unsure about the pregnancy (other than the pregnancy surprise and complication) if things would be fine afterwards?

If the pregnancy were terminated, the tumour would shrink and could  be managed medically. If the pregnancy continued, it would have to be surgery, a more dangerous option.

I also got the feeling that he was freaked out by the idea of Rio carrying a child since he identified as gay. That's a lot to wrap you head around.

Apparently neither he nor Shaun have read any of the many mpreg fanfic floating around.

[MaryHedwig]

Isn't this episode supposed to be set in the post-COVID future? All salad bars are closed now. My favorite salad bar restaurant, Sweet Tomatoes/Souplantation closed for good because they could not make the transition to a formal menu. Do we really foresee salad bars opening up in the future? I, for one, might be post-COVID as grossed out by them as Shawn.

[KaveDweller]

11 hours ago, PinkRibbons said:

The reason Lim divulged her medication use at that moment was that you aren't supposed to mix sertraline with alcohol. Andrews bringing in a bottle of booze just happened to give her the opening she needed to say it.

A person can turn down a drink without giving a reason. But if she felt like giving a reason, Lim could have said she was on medication without giving a specific type/reason. Or that she still had a lot of work to do and needed to keep her head clear.

I can see her telling Claire, since Claire had been worried and kept bugging her. But the only reason for telling Andrews seems to be to make some kind of statement about not wanting to be ashamed.

8 hours ago, statsgirl said:

Glassman also lets it pass too often, he rarely seems to stop Shaun from behaving inappropriately and explain why it's wrong.

Glassman can't really force Shaun to do anything. Shaun's an adult, and all Glassman could do is piss Shaun off. But Shaun's direct supervisor could tell him that since he keeps offending patients with inappropriate questions, he needs some type of sensitivity or skills training.

4 hours ago, MaryHedwig said:

Isn't this episode supposed to be set in the post-COVID future? All salad bars are closed now. My favorite salad bar restaurant, Sweet Tomatoes/Souplantation closed for good because they could not make the transition to a formal menu. Do we really foresee salad bars opening up in the future? I, for one, might be post-COVID as grossed out by them as Shawn.

I hope so, I miss salad bars.

I do have a problem with people mixing tongs though. For most things it is not an issue, but if there is bacon or another meat product out, I do not want the tongs I use to touch them (vegetarian here).

[juno]

31 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

But Shaun's direct supervisor could tell him that since he keeps offending patients with inappropriate questions, he needs some type of sensitivity or skills training.

Or an actual real supervisor would be giving an ultimatum at some point to stop the insensitive remarks or he would be kicked out of his field and not allowed to work with patients anymore. Like the lab he hated so much.

[Driad]

40 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

Glassman can't really force Shaun to do anything. Shaun's an adult

Shaun was, what, 12? when he met Glassman.  I wonder what happened between then and college.

[bros402]

2 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

Glassman can't really force Shaun to do anything. Shaun's an adult, and all Glassman could do is piss Shaun off. But Shaun's direct supervisor could tell him that since he keeps offending patients with inappropriate questions, he needs some type of sensitivity or skills training.

Glassman's the president of the hospital and Shaun is just a resident - I imagine he could make Shaun seek counseling.

[PinkRibbons]

The problem with Shaun is that he asks inappropriate questions in a genuine bid to understand the situation around him. Some people actually seem fine with answering his questions and I imagine are relieved to have someone ask outright so they can explain as opposed to everyone dancing around a subject.

I actually do agree on Shaun needing serious training on which subjects to avoid, but I wonder if there's a program anywhere that can cover all possible questions he could have, not knowing where they will fall on the offensive meter. And it's not like he can or should stop asking questions. None of us should stop asking questions or we'll never learn about the world. The problem is that Shaun can't utilize tact.

Maybe they should just train him to say before any question not directly related to his medical training "I have been told that I have a tendency to ask questions that are inappropriate. I ask that you regard them as the genuine curiosity they are without assuming any judgement behind them. I apologize if I offend you, it is not intentional, and I understand if you don't wish to answer."

Of course that is a hell of a long disclaimer to use every time you're curious...

[Whodunnit]

From logic class: "correlation does not imply causation." Just because two variables have a statistical relationship with each other does not mean that one is responsible for the other.

The patient informing the audience of certain facts does not mean that is what's going on even though she had something in common with the facts she stated.

Claire could just have easily been biased because she was a pot dealer.

Having said that, Claire was being a shitty doctor and deserved to get reprimanded. 

[kicotan]

21 hours ago, whydoiwatchtv said:

As a long time cannabis user that has been around many other cannabis users, I’ve never seen behavior like that. It looked like she had a bottle of booze. I just don’t like the portrayal that cannabis consumers are some whacked-out crowd that can’t control ourselves. Yes, there can be too many edibles which could lead to extreme paranoia but you’re scared, not singing like you’re at Karaoke. It’s another stigma I’d like to see disappear. You’d be surprised how many people around you are on a medical cannabis dose or even high recreationally. I’m sure there’s people that act goofy but that drunken, incoherent act made me laugh. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Agree 100%!!!

Recently, someone I know disclosed to me that they have been “microdosing” psilocybin mushrooms daily for several months.  I knew that their mood had improved and seemed to be doing better but I was speechless at the revelation.  My only experience with psychedelics was decades ago and most definitely not as a daily therapy.  I never would have guessed.

 

4 hours ago, PinkRibbons said:

Maybe they should just train him to say before any question not directly related to his medical training "I have been told that I have a tendency to ask questions that are inappropriate. I ask that you regard them as the genuine curiosity they are without assuming any judgement behind them. I apologize if I offend you, it is not intentional, and I understand if you don't wish to answer."

Of course that is a hell of a long disclaimer to use every time you're curious...

Like a Miranda warning, they could have cards printed up!!!

[Granny58]

On 2/16/2021 at 11:04 PM, racked said:

Was Zara delirious when she first came into the ER because of her heart condition? I couldn’t completely follow the medical part of things there. Her BP was high and Claire gave her drugs to lower them. Is that bad because she was already taking BP medicine and it was too much? 

No, not bad.  As my post above...I went through the same thing recently.   

[Granny58]

14 hours ago, MaryHedwig said:

Isn't this episode supposed to be set in the post-COVID future? All salad bars are closed now. My favorite salad bar restaurant, Sweet Tomatoes/Souplantation closed for good because they could not make the transition to a formal menu. Do we really foresee salad bars opening up in the future? I, for one, might be post-COVID as grossed out by them as Shawn.

I thought Shawn was grossed out by her putting the pickles on top of the salad, or something like that, not that there was a salad bar (although you do make a good point about post-covid).

[TomGirl]

On 2/16/2021 at 7:09 PM, statsgirl said:

Very true.  But it's not limited to colour, it's also true for sex, class and culture. In  the last century, a lot of white male doctors came from Europe to America and many of them got treated like crap.

My father (born in the U.S.) did a medical residency at the Mayo Clinic in 1940s.  He was the first Jewish resident that Mayo had ever accepted, his credentials being so impressive that they almost had no choice but to accept him.  Antisemitism was rife in that era, and my dad certainly felt it, and felt immense pressure to excel, not just for himself but on behalf of all Jewish people.

Edited February 18, 2021 by TomGirl