S15.E16: Reunion Part 2

[PrincessPurrsALot]

Quote

In part 2 of the reunion, Braunwyn struggles to come to terms with her past behavior involving Shannon's daughter.  Gina shares an update on her relationship with Travis. Andy questions Kelly about her social media posts, while the ladies confront Braunwyn about her authenticity. Elizabeth opens up about growing up in a cult. Sean joins the ladies to discuss Braunwyn, their modern marriage and their future.

They forgot to add PrincessPurrsALot suffers severe eye strain from rolling them so hard when Brauny and Sean talk about their marriage. 

Original air date 2021.01.27

[MrsWitter]

10 hours ago, PrincessPurrsALot said:

They forgot to add PrincessPurrsALot suffers severe eye strain from rolling them so hard when Brauny and Sean talk about their marriage. 

Original air date 2021.01.27

Not to spoil too much, but I heard somewhere that they’re really into “redefining marriage.” Maybe they’ll talk about that.

Or at least BW will while Sean sits there, wide-eyed, fidgety, stammering and nodding. 
 

ETA: 

Edited January 25, 2021 by MrsWitter

[whydoievencare]

It's amazing how Braunwyn presented herself as this soft little marshmallow in her first season - how she was such a people pleaser, such a devoted mom, how her mother basically abandoned her as a child and how Braunwyn basically "shut down" when there was a difference of opinion with her.  The Braunwyn I'm seeing in the reunion is just a fucking pit bull - actually, that's the Braunwyn we've seen all this season - screaming at her daughter to let her finish speaking, talking about smacking her husband, how she was never attracted to men - I mean, WTF.  She is such an attention seeker and it's about her 100% of the time.  I can't imagine what her husband sees in her and why he would want to stay with her.  And I wish she would leave her fucking fake hair alone - it's so stupid that she keeps stroking/playing with it.  I hate her reunion look, I hate her stupid mouth - I hate how she's so performative in her "wokeness" - I wish she'd get booted from the show.

Edited January 28, 2021 by whydoievencare

[Mu Shu]

So they’re just glossing over that this stank offered a 14 yo a drug connection? 
 

Fuck that. Fuck this show. Bran whine is a fucking sack of shit. So is Shannon, who is giving it a pass. 

[Steph J]

Few things I love more than when someone who is literally on television claims, while being broadcast on television, that they're a victim of "cancel culture."

[itsadryheat]

4 minutes ago, whydoievencare said:

I wish she'd get booted from the show

Bravo can't boot her when she's this close to winning an Emmy-she can convincingly play any and all characters.

[Mu Shu]

David Beador needs to go back to court and get full custody and let that bitch Shannon go on welfare. 

Edited January 28, 2021 by Mu Shu

[Axie]

Brownsuck certainly made a quick recovery after her devastation over what she did to Shannon's daughter.  I can't take another season of her.

[charming]

Shannon didn't seem too bothered either but hey anything to deflect from her own drinking.

[nexxie]

2 minutes ago, charming said:

Shannon didn't seem too bothered either but hey anything to deflect from her own drinking.

Yep - deflection was the reason she brought it up, judging by that coversation with John. And he seemed eager to change the topic too. Drinking buddies.

[whydoievencare]

Of course Braunwyn doesn't want a divorce from her husband - who else is going to bankroll her lifestyle and look after her and give her someone to blame for everything.  Braunwyn blames him for the things he does and the things he doesn't do. She is exactly how she has portrayed her mother to be.  She's a selfish, selfish person.  She wanted all those kids, she wanted to be an at home mother - and that's exactly what he provided.  Andy described it well - she likes to keep people who are of service to her around.  

Edited January 28, 2021 by whydoievencare

[snarts]

Despite her claims, it was obvious Braunwyn knew what Shannon was going to say as soon as she mentioned her daughter. Watch the realization hit her & her face fall. She quickly turned on the waterworks and hid behind her "alcoholism". I've got $20 that says she still has that dealer on speed dial. 

[Stats Queen]

Just now, snarts said:

Despite her claims, it was obvious Braunwyn knew what Shannon was going to say as soon as she mentioned her daughter. Watch the realization hit her & her face fall. She quickly turned on the waterworks and hid behind her "alcoholism". I've got $20 that says she still has that dealer on speed dial. 

Speed dial and/or speed on the dial?

[Talented Tenth]

The Racist Wives of the OC.  Kelly is scum for trying to defend her drunk wives matter hat.  Elizabeth tried to defend the indefensible.  Kelly tried to pull out every excuse in the book to justify the hat including saying she's Black.  Get the fuck outta here.  My eyes are now open to Shannon too.  Expressing that racial injustice is wrong isn't a political statement.  It's called being a decent person.  The cast really displayed they don't give a fuck.  I think I'm done for good -- even if they get rid of Kelly and bring Tamra and Heather back.  Those women really screamed at Braunwyn for standing against racial inequality.  Wow.

[whydoievencare]

I have enjoyed Gina so, so much this year.  She's such a grownup.  She looked beautiful in the reunion.

 

Edited January 28, 2021 by whydoievencare

[nichelle]

I can't stand Kelly. Over the years, I've found her behavior to be horrible. I don't see her getting any better and her yelling "I'm black!!!" scored no points tonight. 

[Axie]

Andy, that was nice of you to include Shawn in the reunion so he could be publicly humiliated.

[nichelle]

7 minutes ago, Talented Tenth said:

The Racist Wives of the OC.  Kelly is scum for trying to defend her drunk wives matter hat.  Elizabeth tried to defend the indefensible.  Kelly tried to pull out every excuse in the book to justify the hat including saying she's Black.  Get the fuck outta here.  My eyes are now open to Shannon too.  Expressing that racial injustice is wrong isn't a political statement.  It's called being a decent person.  The cast really displayed they don't give a fuck.  I think I'm done for good -- even if they get rid of Kelly and bring Tamra and Heather back.  Those women really screamed at Braunwyn for standing against racial inequality.  Wow.

Truth. I was disgusted by all of it.

[nexxie]

Elizabeth’s segment was sad, but she’s on her way to healing - glad the others were supportive and kind.

[IKnowRight]

7 minutes ago, Talented Tenth said:

The Racist Wives of the OC.  Kelly is scum for trying to defend her drunk wives matter hat.  Elizabeth tried to defend the indefensible.  Kelly tried to pull out every excuse in the book to justify the hat including saying she's Black.  Get the fuck outta here.  My eyes are now open to Shannon too.  Expressing that racial injustice is wrong isn't a political statement.  It's called being a decent person.  The cast really displayed they don't give a fuck.  I think I'm done for good -- even if they get rid of Kelly and bring Tamra and Heather back.  Those women really screamed at Braunwyn for standing against racial inequality.  Wow.

They screamed at Fraudwyn because she’s a phony for the camera.  Remember, it was Braunwyn and her mother disrespecting POC at Rowans fashion show last season.  Her creepy mother dropped the F bomb and the N word on the male that was the manager at the event.  Braunwyn said he was an opportunist and a liar.  She doesn’t care, she does these things, with her photographer to deflect from her bad behavior.  She’s a con artist.  The ladies are exposing her.

[goofygirl]

I think the shitshow of a marriage that Brown Wind & Sean have is gonna have repercussions loooooooong into the future.  It's nice that they want to spend "quality time" with each of their SEVEN children but seriously, how are those kids ever gonna learn how to be truthful with those two as parents??

Sean needs to get a d-i-v-o-r-c-e ASAP.  Just get on with it.  They'll be much better off without having a totally self-absorbed Mother to contend with on the daily.  It would probably be cheaper too - He wouldn't have to support Brown Wind and all her bullshit "girlfriends" ESPECIALLY since she's never been attracted to him AT ALL .EVER.

[Mu Shu]

7 minutes ago, Axie said:

Andy, that was nice of you to include Shawn in the reunion so he could be publicly humiliated.

He’s a fucking simp. He gets off on this. 

[Talented Tenth]

5 minutes ago, IKnowRight said:

They screamed at Fraudwyn because she’s a phony for the camera.  Remember, it was Braunwyn and her mother disrespecting POC at Rowans fashion show last season.  Her creepy mother dropped the F bomb and the N word on the male that was the manager at the event.  Braunwyn said he was an opportunist and a liar.  She doesn’t care, she does these things, with her photographer to deflect from her bad behavior.  She’s a con artist.  The ladies are exposing her.

Braunwyn's not her mother and they have a bad relationship.  I can't speak to what's in Braunwyn's heart; I can only go by her actions.  Her saying that Black lives matter and going to protests means a lot to people.  Braunwyn did say she wasn't doing it before but she's doing it now.  People can change, grow, evolve and/or become enlightened.  Braunwyn said she's lost friends.  She also put herself on the front lines and took risks socially.  

[AttackTurtle]

10 hours ago, Mu Shu said:

So they’re just glossing over that this stank offered a 14 yo a drug connection? 
 

Fuck that. Fuck this show. Bran whine is a fucking sack of shit. So is Shannon, who is giving it a pass. 

Yeah this just a major wtf for me.  I fully endorse Andy going after Kelly, but Braunwyn should’ve been subjected to a lot more questioning over that one unless, there were other concerns in play.  I wondered if Andy was reluctant because he didn’t know if there could be some legal issues for Bravo if more was discovered.

Edited January 28, 2021 by AttackTurtle

[65mickey]

27 minutes ago, Talented Tenth said:

The Racist Wives of the OC.  Kelly is scum for trying to defend her drunk wives matter hat.  Elizabeth tried to defend the indefensible.  Kelly tried to pull out every excuse in the book to justify the hat including saying she's Black.  Get the fuck outta here.  My eyes are now open to Shannon too.  Expressing that racial injustice is wrong isn't a political statement.  It's called being a decent person.  The cast really displayed they don't give a fuck.  I think I'm done for good -- even if they get rid of Kelly and bring Tamra and Heather back.  Those women really screamed at Braunwyn for standing against racial inequality.  Wow.

Of course the don't give a damn. They don't care one bit about racism. They dont care about Black Lives Matter. And they don't care that 400,000 Americans have died from Covid. Selfish selfish people who can't see beyond their own lives. Kelly even said she was glad that she didn't let fear of Covid stop her from having a wedding  or selling houses or basically doing whatever the hell she wanted to do. And Shannon says she can't comment on BLM because she was raised not to speak about politics. They all disgust me and this includes Emily too.  God I wish that Andy would fire all of them. Just let them go off and drink themselves into a stupor. Sorry excuses for human beings. 

Edited January 28, 2021 by 65mickey

[Stats Queen]

The depths of which I can’t personally dislike Andy Cohen are never ending. My expectations of him get lower every day.

At the end of the day, the nicest thing I can say about him is that he is a horrible moderator at the reunions. Last RHOP he went all in on Monique and was the attack dog. This reunion he went after Kelly and gave BW all the deference in the world, it is obvious he picked a side, and it is clear which side that is.

Whether I agree or disagree, that doesn’t matter, he’s supposed to be a moderator- so his opinion shouldn’t even make it into these farces disguised as “reunions”.

I have a very short list of people I will openly admit to despising - he’s on it... Currently I have 5 people of that list because despise is a huge word (and I know 3 or the 5 others personally).

 

[JAYJAY1979]

11 minutes ago, Talented Tenth said:

Braunwyn's not her mother and they have a bad relationship.  I can't speak to what's in Braunwyn's heart; I can only go by her actions.  Her saying that Black lives matter and going to protests means a lot to people.  Braunwyn did say she wasn't doing it before but she's doing it now.  People can change, grow, evolve and/or become enlightened.  Braunwyn said she's lost friends.  She also put herself on the front lines and took risks socially.  

Even evil people like Brownie can do one good thing in life.  She still hits her husband and emotionally abuses her kids though 

Sean...I would talk to Elizabeth off camera and ask for that lawyer's number 

Edited January 28, 2021 by JAYJAY1979

[Chit Chat]

18 minutes ago, Talented Tenth said:

Those women really screamed at Braunwyn for standing against racial inequality.

They were mad at her because she sits back and judges them on what she perceives as their inaction on the subject.  Braunwyn can STFU.   How dare her tell people they're racist because they didn't do x, y, and z.   She doesn't know what people do in their private lives.  Not everybody has to film everything they do in this regard.   

[nexxie]

24 minutes ago, Axie said:

Andy, that was nice of you to include Shawn in the reunion so he could be publicly humiliated.

I wonder whose idea that was - B&S seemed fine with it.

[nichelle]

They can be mad at Braunwyn. I don't have to defend Braunwyn to have a problem with what I saw on the reunion tonight. Sporting a 'Drunk Wives Matter' cap while denying its connection to Black Lives Matter is crazy. Then saying 'I have black friends!'. And to say "I'm black!" and to somehow relate that to the daily lives of people who have actually suffered due to the color of their skin?  'I'm not political'? Get out of here.

[lamujerdecente]

 Everyone who is slamming Brownwind for her black lives matter protest and her fakeness. Indeed. she is. But even her SKANK ass knows defending racism or implying it is a "politcal statement" isn't the image to portray on TV. She knows, like most sociopaths, to fake or emote emotion towards things that are universally terrible. So what's Shannon's excuse? Kelly's? Or anyone who thinks the rights of humans is a debatable topic.    

Edited January 28, 2021 by lamujerdecente

[IKnowRight]

18 minutes ago, Talented Tenth said:

Braunwyn's not her mother and they have a bad relationship.  I can't speak to what's in Braunwyn's heart; I can only go by her actions.  Her saying that Black lives matter and going to protests means a lot to people.  Braunwyn did say she wasn't doing it before but she's doing it now.  People can change, grow, evolve and/or become enlightened.  Braunwyn said she's lost friends.  She also put herself on the front lines and took risks socially.  

No, she’s not her mother.  However, she called the black guy (sorry, I forgot his name)  at Rowens fashion shoot a liar, after he claimed her mother dropped the N word on him?  If her mother is so horrible, why would she defend such vile crap?  Why did she insert herself and deny his voice? She called him an opportunist.  Take one to know one in that case.  She’s an elitist.  She was posing for those BLM shots.  IMO.

[Chit Chat]

3 minutes ago, nexxie said:

I wonder whose idea that was - B&S seemed fine with it.

Maybe Sean wanted people to hear his side of the story, which I still think is completely effed up.  Braunwyn needs to work on her own damn life before she starts judging the rest of the women on how they live their lives.  

 

[oakville]

1 hour ago, Mu Shu said:

So they’re just glossing over that this stank offered a 14 yo a drug connection? 
 

Fuck that. Fuck this show. Bran whine is a fucking sack of shit. So is Shannon, who is giving it a pass. 

I am stunned that Shannon would be so forgiving of Braunwyn offering her 14 year old daughter access to drugs.

 

 

[oakville]

1 hour ago, Mu Shu said:

David Beador needs to go back to court and get full custody and let that bitch Shannon go on welfare. 

David should be outraged at Shannon for continuing to film with Braunwyn. I would never let Braunwyn get close enough to my teenage daughter to offer her drugs.

How can Andy be so nonchalant about this ?

[Axie]

7 minutes ago, oakville said:

I am stunned that Shannon would be so forgiving of Braunwyn offering her 14 year old daughter access to drugs.

 

 

It was weird that Shannon just let that go.  When I was watching I thought she must really have to pee to just leave the room in the middle of that.

[65mickey]

27 minutes ago, ChitChat said:

They were mad at her because she sits back and judges them on what she perceives as their inaction on the subject.  Braunwyn can STFU.   How dare her tell people they're racist because they didn't do x, y, and z.   She doesn't know what people do in their private lives.  Not everybody has to film everything they do in this regard.   

Yeah she nor we know what they do in their private lives but judging from their responses they most lkely do very little in their private lives to take a stand against racism or to accept that Covid is a horendous virus that is devastating the planet and has killed 2.6 million people worldwide. But hey whats a few million people when they can't go to a restaurant or bar or have a party?

[oakville]

1 minute ago, Axie said:

It was weird that Shannon just let that go.  When I was watching I thought she must really have to pee to just leave the room in the middle of that.

Was Shannon informed by Andy that she would have to film with Braunwyn next season or be fired ?

I can't see how Bravo brings back Braunwyn next year . There would be a revolt among many viewers.

[njbchlover]

2 minutes ago, Axie said:

It was weird that Shannon just let that go.  When I was watching I thought she must really have to pee to just leave the room in the middle of that.

I felt like Shannon came to the reunion with one goal - to get that awful thing that Braunwyn did out into the public.  She accomplished that.  Afterward, it seemed like Shannon basically checked out of the reunion.  She seemed to be in another world half the time during the second half of this reunion, not paying attention, going so far as to not even realize who "Sean" was.  

 

 

[MrsWitter]

Watching the second part of this reunion, I felt like there was only one functioning adult on that stage- and it was Gina. I’d be happy if they got rid of all of them (including Andy). It’s like a contest trying to pick who is worst: abuse and drug dealing from BW, the overt racism from Kelly, and the nonchalance from Shannon about both her child being offered drugs and the severity of systemic racism. 

Edited January 28, 2021 by MrsWitter
Grammar (worse vs worst)

[oakville]

49 minutes ago, Stats Queen said:

The depths of which I can’t personally dislike Andy Cohen are never ending. My expectations of him get lower every day.

At the end of the day, the nicest thing I can say about him is that he is a horrible moderator at the reunions. Last RHOP he went all in on Monique and was the attack dog. This reunion he went after Kelly and gave BW all the deference in the world, it is obvious he picked a side, and it is clear which side that is.

Whether I agree or disagree, that doesn’t matter, he’s supposed to be a moderator- so his opinion shouldn’t even make it into these farces disguised as “reunions”.

I have a very short list of people I will openly admit to despising - he’s on it... Currently I have 5 people of that list because despise is a huge word (and I know 3 or the 5 others personally).

 

Andy should step down from moderating the reunions.

[Talented Tenth]

36 minutes ago, IKnowRight said:

No, she’s not her mother.  However, she called the black guy (sorry, I forgot his name)  at Rowens fashion shoot a liar, after he claimed her mother dropped the N word on him?  If her mother is so horrible, why would she defend such vile crap?  Why did she insert herself and deny his voice? She called him an opportunist.  Take one to know one in that case.  She’s an elitist.  She was posing for those BLM shots.  IMO.

When people are doing something right or decent, I don't think it's impossible for there to be more than one reason they are doing it.  I just don't think her support is 100% fake.  Ultimately, I don't see what it would do for her life besides knowing that she's standing for a cause.

[oakville]

9 minutes ago, MrsWitter said:

Watching the second part of this reunion, I felt like there was only one functioning adult on that stage- and it was Gina. I’d be happy if they got rid of all of them (including Andy). It’s like a contest trying to pick who is worse: abuse and drug dealing from BW, the overt racism from Kelly, and the nonchalance from Shannon about both her child being offered drugs and the severity of systemic racism. 

Emily called out Braunwyn for not recognizing that she went to the drag queen event with Brunwyn's  son..

[MrsWitter]

32 minutes ago, lamujerdecente said:

 Everyone who is slamming Brownwind for her black lives matter protest and her fakeness. Indeed. she is. But even her SKANK ass knows defending racism or implying it is a "politcal statement" isn't the image to portray on TV. She knows ,like most sociopaths, to fake or emote emotion towards things that are universally terrible. So what's Shannon's excuse? Kelly's? Or anyone who thinks the rights of humans is a debatable topic.    

Shannon dressed like it was the 1960s and her views on race seemed to date earlier than her clothes. It’s not a good look to be a very wealthy and educated white women who sits on the stage in a Duchess slant saying how she was raised not to discuss “politics.” In some ways, her casual disinterest in the welfare of others is actually worse than Kelly’s more outright displays of racism. It’s time for Shannon to go home, sit in her bed with the organic headboard and cry about the cancellation of Sophie’s debutante ball.

[Talented Tenth]

51 minutes ago, ChitChat said:

They were mad at her because she sits back and judges them on what she perceives as their inaction on the subject.  Braunwyn can STFU.   How dare her tell people they're racist because they didn't do x, y, and z.   She doesn't know what people do in their private lives.  Not everybody has to film everything they do in this regard.   

She didn't call them racist.  She said her castmates aren't people she can go to regarding LGBT+ and BLM.  I'm also keeping in mind that she knows them outside of television.  Emily and one of the others were quick to yell about going to a drag show (as if that's really doing something) but they couldn't say one thing they did regarding racial injustice.

[Stats Queen]

I am a behind, but this crap with BW and how she treats her husband is disgusting and inexcusable. Crap, in 1992 when my now ex-husband was abusing me, I was lucky to actually get out alive, because I did not understand what was happening to me. My friends didn’t either because none of us knew anything about domestic violence. I remember going into work one day an my coworker, a very wonderful man, asked “what happened?” because I had a bruise on my throat and a broken blood vessel in my eye because my husband choked me. I just said, my husband and I had a fight, he looks worse, because I couldn’t tell anyone the hell I was living because no one would or did believe it. This coworker shrugged that off.

Seriously, I was extremely lucky to get out alive because when I did finally manage to leave him (several tries because he kept showing up) there was a loaded gun between the mattresses on his side of the bed. I am alive to share this tale and I know I have helped others along the way.

Sadly, Nicole Brown Simpson’s murder was awful, but how many lives (male or female) did she save? We may never know. Her death finally help reveal that that domestic abuse and violence has absolutely nothing to do with race, economic or socioeconomic factors - abusers exist everywhere.

One of the best things that happened with the emergence of the Internet was the ability to share knowledge, facts and information. In 2020, most people in many countries who are in an abusive situation who have no personal support can find out: 1. This is not normal, 2. It doesn’t matter who you are or your walk of live, this is wrong, and 3. Here are resources as well as places you can go that will help you and your kids and help you get back on your feet.

I get really worried in that in 2021 with the prevalence of social media that the loudest voices will again over power those in most need of a voice who are afraid to speak.

I also become increasingly concerned about people who cite domestic abuse for normal everyday crap (like did you put your undies in the laundry basket) diminishing real victims. 
It is also sad that too many people don’t realize that domestic abuse can happen to men.

I have been sexually, physically and emotionally abused. They are are awful.

[MrsWitter]

7 minutes ago, Talented Tenth said:

She didn't call them racist.  She said her castmates aren't people she can go to regarding LGBT+ and BLM.  I'm also keeping in mind that she knows them outside of television.  Emily and one of the others were quick to yell about going to a drag show (as if that's really doing something) but they couldn't say one thing they did regarding racial injustice.

Come on- Kelly went out and spent her own money on a “21inme” test to show how not racist she is! Doesn’t that count for something? /s

I don’t really trust much of what BW says about the women and their views because she’s a liar, a famewhore (but not a narcissist!), and overall an unreliable narrator. That said, I think she’s probably (mostly) right about her coworkers and their views on race. But I’m basing that on what I’ve seen from the other women, not BW’s testimony.

[Mu Shu]

41 minutes ago, njbchlover said:

I felt like Shannon came to the reunion with one goal - to get that awful thing that Braunwyn did out into the public.  She accomplished that.  Afterward, it seemed like Shannon basically checked out of the reunion.  She seemed to be in another world half the time during the second half of this reunion, not paying attention, going so far as to not even realize who "Sean" was.  

 

 

I didn’t really know his name either. He’s sort of like a really blank, creepy ghost. 

And what a sleeper Gina is. She can come back anytime, even if it is living in a garage. If they keep Kelly as the villain and drop Braless and Shannon the Bore, this could be a decent cast. 

 

Edited January 28, 2021 by Mu Shu

[Marley]

Wow so Braunwyn totally just gets away with garbage like that. Andy doesn’t even say anything to her. What a fucking joke.

Oh let’s praise Braunwyns fake activism. Bleh. 

Emily is right about Braunwyn.

Braunwyn is a fucking abusive predator. 

Andy is so far up her ass.  Even when Andy asks her questions he does it so gingerly. So gross.

If Braunwyn keeps being put on this pedestal I’m quitting this joke show. Who the fuck would look to Braunwyn as a role model.

Gross Braunwyns story and gross Sean ugh.

Braunwyn and Sean’s marriage what a fucking joke. Such fucking tryhard famewhores.

Omg yes Gina brought up the abuse. Love Gina. She’s the best. Also Braunwyn has abused Sean more then once so how is it a mistake. Of course Braunwyn brushes it off. Disgusting POS.

[njbchlover]

1 hour ago, MrsWitter said:

Watching the second part of this reunion, I felt like there was only one functioning adult on that stage- and it was Gina. I’d be happy if they got rid of all of them (including Andy). It’s like a contest trying to pick who is worst: abuse and drug dealing from BW, the overt racism from Kelly, and the nonchalance from Shannon about both her child being offered drugs and the severity of systemic racism. 

I agree, but I was all in for Emily, too (can't believe I'm saying that because I really didn't like her before this season), UNTIL she went and comforted Braunwyn after the drug procurement revelation.  That was just a little too much empathy for a horrible person like Braunwyn.  Braunwyn should have been left to have her fake panic attack by herself.  Let her hyperventilate...Braunwyn is the scum of the earth as far as I'm concerned.