S07.E09: Treehouse of Cards Pt. 1

[snarts]

11 minutes ago, Rlb8031 said:

I'd much rather see Leva and Kathryn have honest discussions (even if Kathryn can't really express herself), than see Ashley lie, scream and rant at Kathryn. 

Fantastic, and the time & place for that discussion was when Kathryn reached out to Leva for advice after the emoji incident. Leva told her she had no interest in a friendship and sent Kathryn on her way.  So why is she now so charged up, chasing Kathryn around at every social event and rallying people against her?

Edited January 15, 2021 by snarts

[Back Atcha]

32 minutes ago, snarts said:

So why is she now so charged up, chasing Kathryn around at every social event and rallying people against her?

Two words:  SCREEN TIME.

[jenifaohjenny]

14 hours ago, Shannah Banana said:

Welp, it was another fun episode of Leva stirring the witches cauldron of racism, and Madison being cruel to dufus Austen.  Haven't we done this before?  Somehow it feels like Groundhog Day at Southern Charm all over again.

 

What does the "witches cauldron of racism" mean? I don't understand? 

35 minutes ago, snarts said:

Fantastic, and the time & place for that discussion was when Kathryn reached out to Leva for advice after the emoji incident. Leva told her she had no interest in a friendship and sent Kathryn on her way.  So why is she now so charged up, chasing Kathryn around at every social event and rallying people against her?

Maybe because the initial racism was really hurtful to her and she needed time. 

[snarts]

13 minutes ago, jenifaohjenny said:

Maybe because the initial racism was really hurtful to her and she needed time. 

Ok, so call her up and tell her you're ready to discuss it now. You don't bring other people into it and chase her around with a camera crew in tow.  Your message gets lost when you act like a divisive bully starting "let's hate Kathryn" group.  Unless, of course, it's less about your feelings and all about being a TV star...

[jenifaohjenny]

4 minutes ago, snarts said:

Ok, so call her up and tell her you're ready to discuss it now. You don't bring other people into it and chase her around with a camera crew in tow.  Your message gets lost when you act like a divisive bully starting "let's hate Kathryn" group.  Unless, of course, it's less about your feelings and all about being a TV star...

They are on a TV show - I am sure producers are saying to them...talk about how you feel about what is going on here on camera. That is what we are paying you for. As in the same for every other character on the show that comes for people and argues. Is it because it is racism so that is more uncomfortable than being mad about Austin in a threesome? Everyone going after Ashley? Craig being made fun of relentlessly for not passing the bar? Also, why not bring it up on TV and use this as a way to educate people on racist behavior? Kathryn does not deserve to be spared any kind of flack coming at her. I'm not saying cancel her completely, but she is hardly the victim here. 

[christmaslights]

when half the cast left, I think they (bravo) just had to latch onto something... what is more timely than the underlying generational racism in Charleston.  prior to this, I think the only person beyond beige coloring was the Gwynns lady....and I really have no idea of her ethnicity and really never gave it a second thought.

so they brought in Leva, the new girl (don't know her name), and seem to have bumped up the owner of Gwynns to a minor castmember. her fiancé even got to show up at the party. I assume they made Kathryn say something untrue about Cam's marriage to dovetail the introduction of Leva to the story.  If K wanted to keep her paycheck, I'm sure that was part of the deal. 

prior to this there was no color.  Kathryn's and Thomas' confederate ancestry was praised by Patricia Thomas, and Whitney. Thomas bragged about his father not using $5 bills because of Lincoln.  NOBODY SAID A WORD. As long as the polo matches kept playing, everyone was happy. 

the show should have reflected the true colors of Charleston long ago.  Kathryn is being used by everyone (Bravo) and the new castmembers keep this show relevant. K should she repent for what she did, absolutely... but it is not for angry Leva to tell her (and everyone associated) when and where.  just 100 miles south young Ahmaud Abery was killed for no reason,  now that is something to get very angry about Leva.

wouldn't it be great if Kathryn got pregnant and had a couple children with the latest Ravanell? oh the gossip.

 

 

[DrSparkles]

5 minutes ago, christmaslights said:

when half the cast left, I think they (bravo) just had to latch onto something... what is more timely than the underlying generational racism in Charleston.  prior to this, I think the only person beyond beige coloring was the Gwynns lady....and I really have no idea of her ethnicity and really never gave it a second thought.

so they brought in Leva, the new girl (don't know her name), and seem to have bumped up the owner of Gwynns to a minor castmember. her fiancé even got to show up at the party. I assume they made Kathryn say something untrue about Cam's marriage to dovetail the introduction of Leva to the story.  If K wanted to keep her paycheck, I'm sure that was part of the deal. 

prior to this there was no color.  Kathryn's and Thomas' confederate ancestry was praised by Patricia Thomas, and Whitney. Thomas bragged about his father not using $5 bills because of Lincoln.  NOBODY SAID A WORD. As long as the polo matches kept playing, everyone was happy. 

the show should have reflected the true colors of Charleston long ago.  Kathryn is being used by everyone (Bravo) and the new castmembers keep this show relevant. K should she repent for what she did, absolutely... but it is not for angry Leva to tell her (and everyone associated) when and where.  just 100 miles south young Ahmaud Abery was killed for no reason,  now that is something to get very angry about Leva.

wouldn't it be great if Kathryn got pregnant and had a couple children with the latest Ravanell? oh the gossip.

 

 

IMO, the examples in your third paragraph lead directly to Ahmaud Arbery (& the other horrific murders).

[christmaslights]

8 minutes ago, DrSparkles said:

IMO, the examples in your third paragraph lead directly to Ahmaud Arbery (& the other horrific murders).

absolutely, and it was endorsed/perpetuated by Bravo....  now they are turning the bus and seemingly blaming it all on Kathryn.  for 7 years they had an all white cast doing nothing but going to parties and gossiping about Thomas/Kathryn...everytime I watched, I asked where are all the black people?  you literally saw none, not even on the streets.

 

[RedDelicious]

1 hour ago, jenifaohjenny said:

Maybe because the initial racism was really hurtful to her and she needed time. 

But the emoji and the text messages and comments weren't sent to Leva. They weren't sent to her husband or child either. By dragging it out across every event throughout the entire season, pulling everyone else into it and not consistently dealing directly with Kathryn 1:1, she's making it about herself. Besides that she can sit right down because she's a hypocrite about her own racist comments. Chiquita Banana is every bit a racist mascot as Aunt Jemima, Uncle Ben and the Land 'O Lakes Maiden. The character as drawn just happens to be Latin American instead of Black or Native American (which is an appropriate term, I checked).

[Baltimore Betty]

4 minutes ago, RedDelicious said:

Besides that she can sit right down because she's a hypocrite about her own racist comments. Chiquita Banana is every bit a racist mascot as Aunt Jemima, Uncle Ben and the Land 'O Lakes Maiden.

Maybe she should have said Carmen Miranda, that is where my mind went.

[RedDelicious]

8 minutes ago, Baltimore Betty said:

Maybe she should have said Carmen Miranda, that is where my mind went.

I don't think it matters whether she was referring to Chiquita Banana the character on the banana sticker or Carmen Miranda as Miss Chiquita Banana.  The symbolism and the character are the same.

[jenifaohjenny]

39 minutes ago, RedDelicious said:

But the emoji and the text messages and comments weren't sent to Leva. They weren't sent to her husband or child either. By dragging it out across every event throughout the entire season, pulling everyone else into it and not consistently dealing directly with Kathryn 1:1, she's making it about herself. Besides that she can sit right down because she's a hypocrite about her own racist comments. Chiquita Banana is every bit a racist mascot as Aunt Jemima, Uncle Ben and the Land 'O Lakes Maiden. The character as drawn just happens to be Latin American instead of Black or Native American (which is an appropriate term, I checked).

I am sure any person of color feels it when they see someone else attacked in a racist manner. I am not going to deal with "whataboutism" - like what about her doing A, B, C and D. I am just saying many people are villanizing the only person of color on this show and it is very telling. 

[bosawks]

I totally understand Madison and Austen about the love/hate thing.

99% of the time I hate them and the other 1% of the time I love to hate them.

[snarts]

1 hour ago, jenifaohjenny said:

I am just saying many people are villanizing the only person of color on this show and it is very telling. 

The fact that Kathryn's an asshole doesn't obsolve Leva from being criticized for her own behavior. 

She's made the situation all about her and we've every right to question her motives & judge her actions, just we do everyone else on this insipid TV show. 

[heatherchandler]

I have been villainizing Kathryn since day 1.  I hate her.  I also dislike Leva.  We can have more than one villain.  Actually I can't stand Madison either.  They all annoy me.

[jenifaohjenny]

34 minutes ago, snarts said:

The fact that Kathryn's an asshole doesn't obsolve Leva from being criticized for her own behavior. 

She's made the situation all about her and we've every right to question her motives & judge her actions, just we do everyone else on this insipid TV show. 

Personally as a white person...I’m just not judging any person of color on how they react to racism. That’s all. Many people seem extra worried about Kathryn and I don’t get it. I get that racism in peoples faces is uncomfortable to watch being called out. Same as over in This is Us forums where many posters say...ugh I don’t want to have to watch this BLM stuff all the time can’t we just forget about it. 

[aghst]

51 minutes ago, heatherchandler said:

I have been villainizing Kathryn since day 1.  I hate her.  I also dislike Leva.  We can have more than one villain.  Actually I can't stand Madison either.  They all annoy me.

You HAVE to choose a team!!!

This is Bravo!

[PrincessPurrsALot]

Charmers,

A reminder: We say what we say about folks on TV.  Sometimes it's positive.  Sometimes it's negative.  Sometimes it's neutral observation.  Disagree with each other, but do so civilly.  We do not focus on discussing other posters.  They are not on the show.

Please do not debate other posters' right to like or dislike anyone on the parade of chucklefucks known as Southern Charm.  You can explain why you like or dislike any person (or animal or inanimate object) on the show without suggesting that others' differing opinions are based on unconscious bias. 

[Back Atcha]

6 hours ago, jenifaohjenny said:

Kathryn does not deserve to be spared any kind of flack coming at her.

How much flak, how many death threats, and for how long should she endure it all?  She made a mistake before last summer and apologized to the other person involved. And WHY is Leah in charge of flaking?

[SunnyBeBe]

5 hours ago, jenifaohjenny said:

I am sure any person of color feels it when they see someone else attacked in a racist manner. I am not going to deal with "whataboutism" - like what about her doing A, B, C and D. I am just saying many people are villanizing the only person of color on this show and it is very telling. 

Amen. Isn’t it....Leva is a wonderful addition to the show.  I’m a little surprised at the feathers she’s ruffled.  What’s that song....Truth Hurts....lol. Love it.  

[chlban]

11 hours ago, TexasGal said:

I've never done fake nails so I don't know about whether that was part of the equation, but I've found myself really NEEDING a Diet Dr Pepper after polishing my nails before.  It's not that hard.  You get a butter knife or a spoon and slid it under the tab to pop it up until you can grab it without risking your nails.  I have never for a second thought of using my teeth.  Of course, I also to this day remember a dentist warning me when I was in jr high that I shouldn't bite off the end of thread with my teeth because it could mess them up if you did it a lot.  Which was pretty random advice to a 13 year old.

I thought the same thing thing about using a butter knife but then I remembered it's Kathryn. Common sens is not exactly her brand.

[Kiss my mutt]

I’m not sure Kathryn is even intelligent enough to get any of what is being said to her. 

[Mstk3000]

8 hours ago, christmaslights said:

Kathryn's and Thomas' confederate ancestry was praised by Patricia Thomas, and Whitney. Thomas bragged about his father not using $5 bills because of Lincoln.  NOBODY SAID A WORD. As long as the polo matches kept playing, everyone was happy.

Exactly.  Patricia, while sipping champagne and eating caviar on potato chips with Leva and Madison, served by her servant, said that she was outraged that Kathryn only reached out to Leva and not to her (Patricia), because that presumed that she wouldn't care.  Well Patricia, who was it who said that the early 1800s were the heyday of Charleston, with much nostalgic regret that it isn't the same today?    

[Jets4274]

As a black woman who’s been watching SC since the beginning, I never minded the fact that the cast wasn’t ever diverse because the natural chemistry between the castmates was fun enough to enjoy watching.  This season, I feel as though they only made a concerted effort to include more people of color, I felt, once COVID, Kathryn’s monkey emoji and the Calhoun statue removal became a major part of the storyline.  To see the new girls (Leva and don’t know the other’s name) be lumped into the group primarily to talk about racial issues from a POC/black person’s point of view feels so contrived. Not feeling it.

Madison is a beyotch.  Used to think that she was cool but her egotistical side is showing quite clearly this season and it ain’t cute whatsoever - makes her less pretty.  Austen nailed it right on the head when calling her out at always wanting to be the center of attention.  Good for him.

[Back Atcha]

LIKE/LIKED ‘EM

• Danni
• Elizabeth Madison
• Kathryn
• Naomie
• Shep

Skipping several.  Liked the parents.

[jenifaohjenny]

13 hours ago, Back Atcha said:

How much flak, how many death threats, and for how long should she endure it all?  She made a mistake before last summer and apologized to the other person involved. And WHY is Leah in charge of flaking?

I have no idea who Leah is....but I am talking about the flak she is getting on the show. 

[rideashire]

1 hour ago, jenifaohjenny said:

I have no idea who Leah is....but I am talking about the flak she is getting on the show. 

The flak she's getting on the show feels like producer driven or air time seeking shenannigans to me. Kathryn deserved to be called out and has been, but this did not involve Leva directly and she seems to have no idea what end goal she has in mind when confronting Kathryn.

Is the point just to drag her until the viewers lose interest? Or does she expect something else to come of it? Because this is Kathryn we're talking about here and she often seems incapable of any real emotion unless she's chasing Thomas on a ship in a fur coat, so if Leva is looking for heartfelt remorse she's trying to get blood from a turnip and it just comes across as looking for air time by arguing with the cast member that gets the most interest. But I don't know what I really expect because everyone loves arguing with Kathryn for air time.

[HouseofBeck]

I was so appalled by Madison continuing to piss on Austen (aka mark her territory) by saying she doesn’t give her blessing for him to move on—and equally appalled that he seemed to be asking for it!!—that I forgot how much the Pringle & Kids scene bugged.

Yes, he seemed genuinely torn up and spoke about his history of being a wreck on leaving day.

Still, expecting kids to whom he tries to act more like a big brother, and who are glued to their mobile devices, to be at the same level of sadness he is just seemed a bit futile. And then trying to evoke that level in them by repeated “Won’t you be sad?” type language set my teeth on edge. Why put your adult feelings on your kids? Do you really want them to be miserable heaps?? Would that make you feel better? Eesh. 

[bichonblitz]

23 minutes ago, HouseofBeck said:

Still, expecting kids to whom he tries to act more like a big brother, and who are glued to their mobile devices, to be at the same level of sadness he is just seemed a bit futile. And then trying to evoke that level in them by repeated “Won’t you be sad?” type language set my teeth on edge. Why put your adult feelings on your kids? Do you really want them to be miserable heaps?? Would that make you feel better? Eesh. 

That bugged me, too. Pringle is nothing more than an overgrown child himself. 

[LibertarianSlut]

On 1/15/2021 at 3:52 PM, jenifaohjenny said:

I am sure any person of color feels it when they see someone else attacked in a racist manner. I am not going to deal with "whataboutism" - like what about her doing A, B, C and D. 

I don’t think it’s “whataboutism” to call Leva out on falling short of her own standard.  That’s calling out hypocrisy.  If Leva wants Kathryn to dance on the head of a pin because of who her ancestors were—something Kathryn can’t control—but Leva, a Caucasian woman, is perpetuating stereotypes about Chiquita Banana, a woman/figurehead who more than likely had the blood of indigenous people of the Americas running through her literal or figurative veins, that’s fair game.  

This is my problem with Leva:  I can’t understand why Leva, who is Caucasian by race, but has dark hair and eyes and a darker complexion than some others (not unlike many Italians) gets an audience to speak on behalf of black people.  Since society has rejected the idea that someone can refute allegations of racism by saying, “I have black friends,” then Leva doesn’t get to sit in a position of unique authority because “[she] has black family.”  I find no internal logic in the idea that non-black people who associate with black people or study black history should refrain from offering an opinion on black issues, but Leva believes it is encouraged for non-black people who have black people in their families to sound off on black issues, and that anyone who doesn’t listen and agree with her is running the risk of being labeled a racist.  Huh?  Someone needs to articulate a coherent standard, because the rules seem like they were made up by Dr. Seuss.  I’ll take a shot—each one of us is empowered to be non-racist.  It’s almost crazy enough to work.  

On 1/15/2021 at 5:52 PM, jenifaohjenny said:

Personally as a white person...I’m just not judging any person of color on how they react to racism.

I respect your opinion to draw any line with which you feel comfortable.  My opinion is that drawing a line between “people of color” and “white” for purposes of arriving at a judgment is just as arbitrary as drawing a line or no line between black Americans and Caucasian people of Iranian descent (ie Leva).  Speaking of Leva, I don’t see any evidence that Kathryn’s ancestors were even preoccupied by Leva’s ancestors, let alone had enough ethnic beef with them to alter the course of their society in any fundamental way from thousands of miles and continents away.  I would be interested in what Leva’s claims, if any, are how Leva’s ancestors suffered under Kathryn’s.  

I also need to unpack this “person of color” thing a little bit, because I’m not sure what it means, but it comes up a lot on this show.  Every person who has melanin in their skin is a person of color, so we’re all “people of color” (except some albinos), so clearly this term doesn’t have a genetic basis, it has a cultural one.  I haven’t seen evidence that the term “person of color” is anything but a phrase that attempts to lump all non-white people into a group, even when they have nothing in common except for the fact that their skin often (but not always) has a darker—in some cases, very slightly darker—hue to it.  

There is no good argument that I’ve heard to advance that a Hungarian in the Steppes, a Japanese girl living in Tokyo and a black American living in Seattle have compelling common interests, priorities or goals that a Belorussian-American and a black American who are both in tech don’t share because the Belorussian is considered by most not to be a “person of color”.  It’s my opinion that it’s counterproductive to humankind to group people by immutable characteristics, as opposed to shared values.  I mean, isn’t that exactly what Leva is proclaiming to rail against?  Does she not see that the notion that one person meeting a certain threshold of natural melanin in their skin, should get “x” treatment from society, but if another person has to sit in the sun for a bunch of hours to get their skin that color, should get “y” treatment from society flies in the face of everything she purports to stand for?  That is one of the strangest set of standards I’ve ever heard, especially in a place where I thought the goal was to seek equal treatment, regardless of race.

The Sami people—the aborigines of Scandinavia who are extremely pale with blonde/white hair and blue eyes—have been marginalized and have said to have been the victims of “racism” in Scandinavia, and they generally have as close to no “color” as albinos.  If the Sami have been mistreated—and they have—is there no call to action, because they ostensibly have no color?  That is how the logic of Leva’s argument flows if I follow it through to its conclusion.

Here’s an elephant in the room:  it’s ironic where folks like Leva want to draw the timeline.  Two centuries ago, international slave trade was banned in the US. A century and a half ago some white Americans (and some black Americans) held black people in slavery in certain parts of the US.  Less than two centuries ago, Iranians were still “importing” white slaves.  Slavery wasn’t banned in Iran until 1929!  Does Leva wish to speak to this? [edited to add—given there is at least as much evidence that Leva’s ancestors committed violence against Kathryn’s ancestors as there is the reverse, by Leva’s standard—not mine—Leva owes Kathryn a major apology, and Kathryn should feel free to use public and social tyranny against Leva repeatedly and indefinitely until Kathryn is satisfied with Leva’s apology].

 I have wracked my brain, but I can’t come up with a good reason why slavery in the Americas is Leva’s cause celebre, when she is silent on the matter that de jure—not de facto, de jure—slavery (of whites and blacks) was occurring in her home country, until the Great Depression, except that one buys her TV time on Bravo, and the other might only get her a segment on PBS.  One allows her entree into Charleston high society and publicity for her businesses, and the other doesn’t.  If that is not cynicism and hypocrisy of the highest order, I do not know what is.  

The thing I find most disappointing is that it took me an entire season—only about half of which I watched—to realize just how absurd Leva’s entire raisin d’etre on this show is.  I mean, I’ve taken a stab at it a few times, but now that I’ve really thought about it, I have to question why I didn’t realize any of this earlier.  I simply wasn’t paying enough attention to this hoax she was running, and I think I have some thought exercises to do.

Well, I got to hand it to Leva for something—if she hadn’t been so deeply offensive, intellectually bankrupt, ambitious to get her name in lights, obtuse and shallow, I may not have quit watching this horror show several episodes back.  

Edited January 18, 2021 by LibertarianSlut
Fix quote and grammar and fact check—oh my

[Back Atcha]

59 minutes ago, bichonblitz said:

That bugged me, too. Pringle is nothing more than an overgrown child himself. 

Exactly, and too self-absorbed.  Picture being married to him.

He's "cute enough" now, but what else does he have to offer? Cut out the booze, dude!

 

Edited January 16, 2021 by Back Atcha

[Back Atcha]

28 minutes ago, LibertarianSlut said:

The thing I find most disappointing is that it took me an entire season—only about half of which I watched—to realize just how absurd Leva’s entire raisin d’etre on this show.  I mean, I’ve taken a stab at it a few times, but now that I’ve really thought about it, I have to question why I didn’t realize any of this earlier.  I simply wasn’t paying enough attention to this hoax she was running, and I think I have some thought exercises to do.

Well, I got to hand it to Leva for something—if she hadn’t been so deeply offensive, intellectually bankrupt, ambitious to get her name in lights, obtuse and shallow, I may not have quit watching this horror show several episodes back.  

...and ALL the other thoughts in your post!   Thank you SO MUCH!  I'd like to get to know you.

[christmaslights]

1 hour ago, LibertarianSlut said:

Well, I got to hand it to Leva for something—if she hadn’t been so deeply offensive, intellectually bankrupt, ambitious to get her name in lights, obtuse and shallow, I may not have quit watching this horror show several episodes back.  

thank you.  you said it in a million ways I never could. 

I'd love to hear your thoughts on Austen/ Madison!

[Sun-Bun]

16 hours ago, Kiss my mutt said:

I’m not sure Kathryn is even intelligent enough to get any of what is being said to her. 

RIGHT?! I think Kathryn is and always has been dumb as a bag of hair.
Like it used to crack me up on the first season how Thomas would drunkenly drool at her, “Yurrrr so wise beyond yurrr years...” And she’d just nod at him smugly because she knew she had that ol’ coot already wrapped around her finger.

Too bad she seems to have fried her young brain cells on so many various substances over the years; she just seems so mentally stunted and too self-absorbed to even understand anything beyond what benefits her own vapid little existence. 

[RedDelicious]

I get the impression that Pringle’s kids’ addiction to electronic devices is more on their mom than on Pringle himself. He seems involved when he’s with them and wants/tries to do actual activities quite a bit. They’re just little shits who can’t be bothered and are clearly permitted to behave that way at home with their mom where they spend most of their time.

[LibertarianSlut]

1 hour ago, Back Atcha said:

...and ALL the other thoughts in your post!   Thank you SO MUCH!  I'd like to get to know you.

Lol, thanks!  Love your posts too!!

1 hour ago, christmaslights said:

thank you.  you said it in a million ways I never could. 

I'd love to hear your thoughts on Austen/ Madison!

Thank you much.  

Oh man, I quit the show just so I wouldn’t have to watch these awful people be so cringeworthy, so I haven’t been paying much attention but as far as Austen, I think he is more or less a regular guy, and since he is a victim of Patricia’s snobbery, I generally take his side, though I’m not exactly sure why he’s on TV.  I think Madison has shown that she is basically a trash heap of a person, often masquerading as someone else, often masquerading as exactly who she is.  

I gotta take off or Leva giving me a bee in my bonnet will cause my downfall.  💕

[Kdawg82]

This is a reality TV show. None of these folks are out there helping the homeless & feeding the hungry. None have become wealthy (or aspire to become so) by the same. This includes every single one.  None are "good." Had to hand it to Shep this episode.  He's dialing in his performances as someone mentioned Cam doing on her final season. He deadpans to Leva "I'm trying to get outta the 'holding people accountable' game." Yeah that's a good choice and likely also the advice of his therapist.  He is staying in his grimy lane as far as the show goes. Also as someone said, we don't know what Leva's end goal is with regard to Kathryn.  She keeps stating she doesn't believe in "cancel culture" and doesn't want Kathryn to be "cancelled." Why's that word even coming out of her mouth? She's used every "buzz" word du jour this season. It was like the 2020 dictionary summed up. Kathryn will answer for Kathryn's actions. She usually ends up doing so anyway (see: being tied to slimy Ravenel for life, kids taken away, ordered to rehab, arrested- I believe(?) fired from Gwynn's, center of constant discord on this show).  It's up to Bravo to make the decision to cut ties with her or not. Like it or not, she doesn't answer to Leva, Cameran, Patricia, or anyone else. Anyone can be "vocal" about issues- actions are louder than words.  I'd love to see Leva rather than screaming "shut the fu** up" at people & talking about or badgering Kathryn-maybe taking surplus food from her shuttered restaurants and bringing it down to the impoverished areas of SC.  We see her talk talk talking & champagning it up with friends and boutique shopping & a passive comment on deciding who to let go from her businesses. Does she go out of her way to pay fairly & hire people of color to prominent positions? Maybe Madison can donate hygiene supplies & services to those in need etc, maybe Dani can hold an art auction of her work to raise $$ for black communities?  None of that would be lucrative or self serving so no we will continue to see them just blathering on about Kathryn, the lightning rod of this show which they know to be true & has been their meal ticket. So disappointing. 

[gingerella]

4 hours ago, Back Atcha said:

Exactly, and too self-absorbed.  Picture being married to him.

He's "cute enough" now, but what else does he have to offer? Cut out the booze, dude!

What does he have to offer, you say? According to sources (Madison) he brings the Big Dick Energy, that's what he has to offer! The dude always looks like he smells of dick cheese. Sorry to be so graphic but there it is. He just looks gross, like, all the time.

As for Leva, did I miss something or is she not actually a bipoc? Isn't she Iranian? How does that make her a person of color having anything to do with the Black American experience? She seems to be tied up in identifying with her husband's black ethnicity and her child's half-black ethnicity, which is fine. But she acts like she herself is a bipoc and that seems off to me, unless I missed the part where she's part Black. Is she?

As for Katherine, bless her heart but isn't she just dumber than a box of rocks? She cannot process anything because she is so far up her own ass that she can't see how fucking offensive she is to pretty much everyone. You could blame it on perhaps inbreeding in her family tree, or being of hillbilly descent or something, but at the end of the day, I just think she is what White Privilege looks like in the deep South. It's fucking sad, and even worst that Bravo considers this entertainment.

This show is sinking into the Mississippi mud flats, and the only thing that would bring it back to an interesting level is to get rid of everyone right now, and start over with a cast of ethnic diversity, and see what their life is really like in fairytale Charleston, I'd bet it wasn't all cotillions and cocktails at Patricia's...

 

[christmaslights]

1 hour ago, gingerella said:

What does he have to offer, you say? According to sources (Madison) he brings the Big Dick Energy, that's what he has to offer! The dude always looks like he smells of dick cheese. Sorry to be so graphic but there it is. He just looks gross, like, all the time.

what is it with Madison and big dick energy and calling Austen a beta? did she read that in cosmo (does cosmo still exist?).  use the phrase once, if it makes you happy....repeatedly using it just makes you look ridiculous. we all heard you the first time...

[itsadryheat]

9 hours ago, LibertarianSlut said:

I got to hand it to Leva for something—if she hadn’t been so deeply offensive, intellectually bankrupt, ambitious to get her name in lights, obtuse and shallow

Leva to Shep: “You just don’t want any confrontation.”

Leva: “Burying his head in the sand is absolutely the definition of white privilege”

Definition of white privilege: the set of social and economic advantages that white people have by virtue of their race in a culture characterized by racial inequality    Merriam-Webster

So according to Leva Bonaparte, anyone that is non-confrontational, regardless of race, is afflicted with white privilege.

or

Only white people are non-confrontational.

Leva to Shep: “I expect you to hold people accountable”

Shep to Leva: “I am trying to get out of the hold people accountable game”

Leva to Shep: “I get it, but when you, see atrocious shit online, that’s different”

Edited January 17, 2021 by itsadryheat

[christmaslights]

4 hours ago, gingerella said:

As for Leva, did I miss something or is she not actually a bipoc? Isn't she Iranian? How does that make her a person of color having anything to do with the Black American experience? She seems to be tied up in identifying with her husband's black ethnicity and her child's half-black ethnicity, which is fine. But she acts like she herself is a bipoc and that seems off to me, unless I missed the part where she's part Black. Is she?

I tread lightly because I don't want to say the wrong thing...but I have been told by my Iranian acquaintances that they are Caucasian and I am not (I'm Scandinavian descent). they identify as Caucasian/white.  I had to google this, and they are in fact Caucasian, and I am not.  I must have been sleeping during that part of geography class 30 years ago...as that (Caucasian) is what I have been putting on every application or census questionnaire as long as I can remember.

[itsadryheat]

On 1/16/2021 at 12:27 PM, Sun-Bun said:

Katherine . . . she just seems so mentally stunted and too self-absorbed to even understand anything beyond what benefits her own vapid little existence.

This is what bugs me about people. They think because they are yapping, chastising, yelling, they are communicating.  If one is sincerely wanting to make a difference to someone, it is the person speaking that has the responsibility to speak in a manner the person spoken to will understand. A perfect example of a non communicator is my Homeowners Association. Their motto is "We Dictate, not Communicate". Causes lots of unnecessary problems.

I get that vibe from Leva. So is Leva's goal to enlighten Katherine, and help educate her on the effect her posts had on the public and how she might do better going forward? Or is her intent to humiliate Katherine and rip her a new one in a group setting? If Leva was free from pretense or deceit, she would speak to Katherine privately, not rally the troops to ascend on the lone Katherine at a social gathering.

Speaking of Leva, with her wealthy, privileged upbringing I was hoping to see a more reserved, woke, mature approach from her towards addressing Katherine's transgressions. We are seeing the opposite.

6. She’s Outspoken

 'She’s got some big beliefs, and she’s not afraid to share those with others. She has her opinions about the world, and the people she knows, and the things she’s been up to, and she likes to share those with others. She wants everyone to see things from her point of view, but is she going to be the type who cannot entertain the concept that everyone has a different opinion?            '

9. She Grew Up Exceptionally Wealthy'

'We don’t know exactly what her family does for a living, but we know that they have a company that is considered a “Multi-National” company, and it’s done really well. She and her family grew up all over the world because of their business, and she’s always lived a life of privilege.'

https://www.tvovermind.com/leva-bonaparte/

Edited January 17, 2021 by itsadryheat

[itsadryheat]

4 hours ago, gingerella said:

sn't she Iranian? How does that make her a person of color having anything to do with the Black American experience? She seems to be tied up in identifying with her husband's black ethnicity and her child's half-black ethnicity, which is fine. But she acts like she herself is a bipoc and that seems off to me, unless I missed the part where she's part Black. Is she?

She’s Persian

Her heritage is Persian. She was born in India, but she did not grow up there. Her family moved often when she was a child, so she’s been able to see the world, live in very diverse cultures, and really make things interesting in her own life. She’s lived in Canada and Bolivia. She’s only been in Charleston for 18 years.

https://www.tvovermind.com/leva-bonaparte/

[RedInk]

On 1/14/2021 at 11:23 PM, SunnyBeBe said:

Most of the time people who aren’t racist don’t have to keep telling you they aren’t racist. 

But what if these people are continually accused of being racist? Viciously and threateningly racist. I am no Katherine apologist, but this is a no-win. I think they kept her on the show to beat her down some more before they inevitably shitcan her, which is pretty fitting for the unmitigated hypocrites running Bravo. The show’s entire premise was white people with famous, antebellum surnames living it up in the Old South. They bragged about their lineage without so much as a whisper of impropriety from anyone, but as soon as the tides change, they bring in the punishers.  It’s no different than what they did with Thomas, who was CLEARLY a garbage person but was also their golden boy  headliner before “Me Too.” Pat, you absolute personification of wealth inequality, start packing, because you’re next.

It’s embarrassingly transparent how the show did a total 180 in tone to avoid controversy, which is why they’re encouraging the Katherine pile-on. Who is the new black friend-of cast member, and what is her backstory? No one knows? Is this not the same “but I have black friends” defense they are accusing K of mounting? 
 

Finally, can we all agree that Madison is engaging is some SERIOUSLY nasty behavior by continually insinuating that Austen has a small package? Three times she’s made some unnecessary comment about how he can’t back up his BDE. Not clever or funny, just basic (like her spray tan, her brassy hair, and her exaggerated accent).

Edited January 17, 2021 by RedInk

[Kdawg82]

11 minutes ago, RedInk said:

It’s embarrassingly transparent how the show did a total 180 in tone to avoid controversy

Can I like your post 1000x?? 

[Back Atcha]

18 hours ago, gingerella said:

What does he have to offer, you say? According to sources (Madison) he brings the Big Dick Energy, that's what he has to offer! The dude always looks like he smells of dick cheese. Sorry to be so graphic but there it is. He just looks gross, like, all the time.

Well...I guess Madison is my DickCheese arbiter from now on.  He does look gross...and sad and pathetic.  WHO HIRED HIM?

Were there no local Cheeses?

18 hours ago, gingerella said:

As for Leva, did I miss something or is she not actually a bipoc? Isn't she Iranian? How does that make her a person of color having anything to do with the Black American experience? She seems to be tied up in identifying with her husband's black ethnicity and her child's half-black ethnicity, which is fine. But she acts like she herself is a bipoc and that seems off to me, unless I missed the part where she's part Black. Is she?

Ya got me!  I'd like to have made the same comment...asked the same questions.  I hope none of her ancestors have anything to apologize for...or any statues that should be removed in a picnic atmosphere.

14 hours ago, itsadryheat said:

So is Leva's goal to enlighten Katherine, and help educate her on the effect her posts had on the public and how she might do better going forward? Or is her intent to humiliate Katherine and rip her a new one in a group setting?

I choose B.

[Back Atcha]

14 hours ago, christmaslights said:

I tread lightly because I don't want to say the wrong thing...but I have been told by my Iranian acquaintances that they are Caucasian and I am not (I'm Scandinavian descent). they identify as Caucasian/white.  I had to google this, and they are in fact Caucasian, and I am not.

ChristmasLights, you've confused me.   You, Scandinavian descent, are NOT white?  I Googled too and found this.  You're Nordic, but...  "The Nordic race is one of the putative sub-races into which some late-19th to mid-20th century anthropologists divided the Caucasian race."  That's just "some" anthropolgists.  What are you?

[b2H]

Just finishing the episode, but Dani and Leva need a new story line.  Kathryn is living rent-free in their heads and they have nothing else to offer.

Not interested in cancel culture indeed.

And Madison doesn’t want Austen to date anyone else.  He is right - she needs all of the attention and control.

The whole episode and season has nothing to offer.  Thank Heavens next week is the season finale.  Pringle has it right.

[Kdawg82]

These people are so classist that the whole racism thing seems lost on them. Honestly, their circle is so enclosed that they prob won't associate with anyone unless they drive a Mercedes or better, it's fully paid for, and you make no less than 300k per year or have family $$.  Don't get me wrong- someone like Shep will fu** anything that walks but if she can't hang at the country club... (clutches pearls) HEAVENS NO! I almost don't know what's worse. And none of the guys seem to have particularly warmed to Leva anyway. She needed her only friend, Cam, to be in the cast and anchor her down, which she didn't.  The only ones who seem to know Leva are the "friends of" on the periphery. And nobody even remembers their names. Just awful all around. The way Leva talked down to Dani at the boutique was so dismissive, she seemed to have her own kind of entitlement right there. It's not ok to act that way...especially to a person you know is emotionally fragile. 

[christmaslights]

8 hours ago, Back Atcha said:

ChristmasLights, you've confused me.   You, Scandinavian descent, are NOT white?  I Googled too and found this.  You're Nordic, but...  "The Nordic race is one of the putative sub-races into which some late-19th to mid-20th century anthropologists divided the Caucasian race."  That's just "some" anthropolgists.  What are you?

I don't know, I'm not going to argue with a group of people who were so well versed on the caucus-es.  I guess I'm just plain old white!

I've googled a few different answers,  but I do know (now)  that Persians are Caucasian.  Here's where I was directed:

Caucasus

Topography of the Caucasus

Countries[1][2]

 Armenia

 Azerbaijan

 Georgia

 Russia

Related areas[show]

Partially recognized or unrecognized countries

 Abkhazia

 Artsakh

 South Ossetia

Autonomous republics and federal regions

 Abkhazia
(since 2008, in exile)

 Adjara

 Adygea

 Chechnya

 Dagestan

 Ingushetia

 Kabardino-Balkaria

 Kalmykia

 Karachay-Cherkessia

 Krasnodar Krai

 Nakhchivan

 North Ossetia-Alania

 Stavropol Krai

DemonymCaucasian

Time ZonesUTC+02:00, UTC+03:00, UTC+03:30, UTC+04:00, UTC+04:30

Highest mountainElbrus (5,642 m)

The Caucasus (/ˈkɔːkəsəs/), or Caucasia[3][4] (/kɔːˈkeɪʒə/), is a region between the Black Sea and the Caspian Sea and mainly occupied by Armenia, Azerbaijan, Georgia, and parts of Southern Russia. It is home to the Caucasus Mountains, including the Greater Caucasus mountain range, which has historically been considered a natural barrier between Eastern Europe and Western Asia.[5]

Europe's highest mountain, Mount Elbrus, at 5,642 metres (18,510 ft) is in the west part of the Greater Caucasus mountain range.[6]On the southern side, the Lesser Caucasus includes the Javakheti Plateau and grows into the Armenian highlands, part of which is located in Turkey.[7]

The Caucasus region is separated into two parts, which fall into two continents, the North Caucasus of Russia (Ciscaucasia) in Europe, and the South Caucasus (Transcaucasia) in Asia, respectively. The Greater Caucasus mountain range in the north is mostly shared by Russia and Georgia, as well as the northernmost parts of Azerbaijan. The Lesser Caucasus mountain range in the south is occupied by several independent states, namely, mostly by Armenia, Azerbaijan, and Georgia, but also extending to parts of northeastern Turkey, northern Iran and the unrecognised  Artsakh Republic.

The region is known for its linguistic diversity:[8] aside from Indo-European and Turkic languages, the Kartvelian, Northwest Caucasian, and Northeast Caucasian language families are indigenous to the area.