S16.E11: Week 11

[deSchenke]

I realize this is a long stream of assumptions, but since Ben admitted to 2 suicide attempts, I wondered if he was diagnosed with depression and was on meds for it. I know some meds make you unemotional, like in the effort to not feel depressed you don't feel anything at all.

[Recyclorette]

I just have to say how much I love this final group of guys.  It's so nice to see the respect and genuine affection they seem to have toward each other.  How refreshing, after so many years of catfights and pettiness right up to the end.

[Just Carol]

22 hours ago, thehepburn said:

I KNEW she wanted him to break down (show emotions) in front of her. Red flag!

This reminded me of Rachel's insistence that Peter K propose to her.  Why, so she couldn't tear him down?  While I do understand that Ben's silence made T sad and confused -- sort of like"did I mean nothing to him?" it seemed sort of greedy for T to expect an "I love you" at that point.

1 hour ago, waving feather said:

I thought Ben seemed plenty emotional when she sent him home. He certainly didn't say much but his insistence on him being fine is obviously his defence mechanism that Tayshia should have picked up on. Or maybe she does know but at the point where she is tired to pry things out of him. Which, understandable and she doesn't get the benefit of seeing his ITMs or interviews. Oh well, they wouldn't have worked in the long run anyway so it's not a big miss opportunity for both.

Is it just me or is Brendan not really into Tayshia? She's into him more than he's into her, for sure. Why else would he bring his niece for the day portion of the date. If I'm one of the contestants I would be making sure I have alone time with the lead as much as possible. They already have very little time together and even less with this season so it puzzled me why he thought it was a great idea for the niece to be there. I would have been annoyed if I were Tayshia. I feel like it's a tactic to avoid intimacy with her.

 Co-sign.  The county fair date was a big no for me, and even more of a no-no is bringing your niece.  Don't shoot me, but it felt like Brendan was just a little too attached to his niece on that date.   If I were T, there would be no rose for Brendan.  

T's shirts on her dates with Ivan and Ben were very modest compared to the deep Vs on her dates with Zac and Brendan.  Personally, if I were a guy, I would prefer that my girlfriend cover up a bit when meeting my parents.  So I wonder if Ivan had said something maybe about his parents being religious, I don't know.  Or can we take it as another clue that she is more attracted to Zac and Brendan?

I cannot imagine Riley being popular on BIP.  I think he is a wet blanket.

[ECM1231]

19 hours ago, Bluesky said:

Zac was arrested for crack cocaine.   They tried to play it like his drug abuse was because of his brain tumor but it started early on with alcohol and adderal then hard drugs. The brain tumor gave him an excuse to get strong drugs like morphine.  He also admits to using heroin and snorting and smoking OxyContin.  
 

I would choose the clean cut hard working guy with a well paying job who happens to have a brother with prison tattoos over the serious drug addict who hasn’t been clean all that long.  

How did you come by this information?  I don't recall Zac saying all of this on the show. I thought the brain tumor was when he was around 19 or so. He got addicted to pain killers after that, which if you have an addictive type personality, is very easy to do. My  neighbor was early 20s and sustained a fall down an outside metal staircase injuring his back badly. He got addicted to the painkillers but in his family his uncle was an alcoholic and his dad abused crack cocaine, so it wasn't a surprise when the kid got addicted. 

I had a total knee replacement a few years back. They sent me home with 80 oxycontin pills, which shocked me. I found they didn't really alleviate the pain all that much and they were super constipating. I have about 60 still left.  I have often wondered why some get addicted and others don't and I truly do think some folks have an addictive type personality, through no fault of their own..

Also, I just seemed to get a vibe from both of Zac's parents that they like to imbibe just a wee bit too much. We have seen other parents with wine glasses in hand, but it was just a feeling I get from having been around people who like to say they are social drinkers but can't really go a day without having a cocktail. I guess my own biases are showing b/c while my folks imbibed on occasion at social functions, daily drinking was not something they ever did.

I could be way off base but  his folks just struck me as big time boozers, which would reinforce my theory as to why Zac became so easily addicted. I thought Zac was sober for almost 10 years, which is a significant amount of time.

[GracieK]

I truly don’t make it a habit to speculate on people’s sexuality but I do agree with the poster that said Ben may be gay. He made a comment at one point like “I’ve never felt for another person like I do about Tayshia”. Could mean nothing but it sounded odd that he left it ambiguous by saying person and not woman or girlfriend. And I also agree with those who say he seems robotic. It took someone else to say hey you’re in love.. and he truly didn’t seem to recognize it could be a thing. Tayshia always seemed more into him than he was into her despite his words.. his words felt hollow and what he was supposed to say. On their one on one he was always riding ahead of her on the scooter and it never really felt like he was into her or focused on her. A West Point grad with a military career and perfectionist parents might lead one to repress their sexuality and true self and have depression and mental health issues as a result. 

Edited December 17, 2020 by GracieK

[Arkay]

2 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Words don't do it justice, but luckily, there's a clip:

 

It's a lot. Or a lawt.

I actually liked Jason, but I do remember this very well. I cracked up then and I am still laughing.

ETA: Maybe the only thing that I'm glad the pandemic has taken away from us is the audience at the live Bachelor shows. Just hearing the audience applaud for this dreck reminds me of all those people, bathed in a weird blue light, who ferociously applaud, or snarl, or cheer, or weep along. They are not my peeps. 

 

Edited December 17, 2020 by Arkay

[Irlandesa]

8 minutes ago, ECM1231 said:

I had a total knee replacement a few years back. They sent me home with 80 oxycontin pills, which shocked me. I found they didn't really alleviate the pain all that much and they were super constipating. I have about 60 still left.  I have often wondered why some get addicted and others don't and I truly do think some folks have an addictive type personality, through no fault of their own..

I think it can be a lot of things that lead to addiction.  Genetics can play a part but so can preferences.

Everything I consider the "bug" of alcohol--the warming feeling and the sense of loosening up/becoming less inhibited--others consider the "feature." 

 

[Irlandesa]

Double post

 

Edited December 17, 2020 by Irlandesa

[GracieK]

15 minutes ago, Arkay said:

It's a lot. Or a lawt.

I actually liked Jason, but I do remember this very well. I cracked up then and I am still laughing.

 

My husband won’t stop saying “It’s a lawt” like A LAWT 😒. I think I need to cut him off from my stories. 

[GracieK]

55 minutes ago, deSchenke said:

I realize this is a long stream of assumptions, but since Ben admitted to 2 suicide attempts, I wondered if he was diagnosed with depression and was on meds for it. I know some meds make you unemotional, like in the effort to not feel depressed you don't feel anything at all.

This is such a good point. They can make you apathetic and he did have that affect. It’s also why they can sometimes cause a higher risk of suicide - it can cause some users to not care about anything. 

[LuvMyShows]

35 minutes ago, ECM1231 said:

Also, I just seemed to get a vibe from both of Zac's parents that they like to imbibe just a wee bit too much. 

I could be way off base but  his folks just struck me as big time boozers, which would reinforce my theory as to why Zac became so easily addicted. I thought Zac was sober for almost 10 years, which is a significant amount of time.

Yeah I hadn't wanted to say anything, but I got that vibe from Zac's mom.

I was wondering where, if anywhere, we had heard how long he's been sober, but I couldn't find anything.  I've only been able to find articles confirming that he had an addiction problem well before the brain tumor, and that what he got addicted to got stronger after the drugs from the surgery, as well as that his teen-age drinking started him on a path for about 15 years of lying.  I hope for his sake that he is permanently sober, but he will have a lifetime struggle after the severity of what he went through.  It will take extraordinary trust on the part of his eventual partner.

[Bluesky]

1 hour ago, ECM1231 said:

How did you come by this information?  I don't recall Zac saying all of this on the show. I thought the brain tumor was when he was around 19 or so. He got addicted to pain killers after that, which if you have an addictive type personality, is very easy to do. My  neighbor was early 20s and sustained a fall down an outside metal staircase injuring his back badly. He got addicted to the painkillers but in his family his uncle was an alcoholic and his dad abused crack cocaine, so it wasn't a surprise when the kid got addicted. 

I had a total knee replacement a few years back. They sent me home with 80 oxycontin pills, which shocked me. I found they didn't really alleviate the pain all that much and they were super constipating. I have about 60 still left.  I have often wondered why some get addicted and others don't and I truly do think some folks have an addictive type personality, through no fault of their own..

Also, I just seemed to get a vibe from both of Zac's parents that they like to imbibe just a wee bit too much. We have seen other parents with wine glasses in hand, but it was just a feeling I get from having been around people who like to say they are social drinkers but can't really go a day without having a cocktail. I guess my own biases are showing b/c while my folks imbibed on occasion at social functions, daily drinking was not something they ever did.

I could be way off base but  his folks just struck me as big time boozers, which would reinforce my theory as to why Zac became so easily addicted. I thought Zac was sober for almost 10 years, which is a significant amount of time.

He was interviewed for a magazine.  He already had an alcohol and drug problem before the brain tumor.  He said the alcohol started early.  
He said his marriage broke down when he was arrested for DUI and he had crack on him at the time.  He also said he had abused heroin and smoked or snorted  the OxyContin.  Pretty hardcore junkie for awhile. I believe genetics are involved too and some people have a tough time stopping their addictions. 

[ljenkins782]

1 hour ago, Arkay said:

ETA: Maybe the only thing that I'm glad the pandemic has taken away from us is the audience at the live Bachelor shows. Just hearing the audience applaud for this dreck reminds me of all those people, bathed in a weird blue light, who ferociously applaud, or snarl, or cheer, or weep along. They are not my peeps. 

God, yes. The audience zombies cheering or booing in unison were definitely not missed. I definitely noticed one rehearsed line from Ed that was clearly designed to get a big laugh but fell flat with the lack of crowd. One of the other guys might have even called it out, but I couldn't quite hear it.

Quote

 

Also, I just seemed to get a vibe from both of Zac's parents that they like to imbibe just a wee bit too much. 

I could be way off base but  his folks just struck me as big time boozers, which would reinforce my theory as to why Zac became so easily addicted. I thought Zac was sober for almost 10 years, which is a significant amount of time.

 

His father had the very red face and his mother looked perhaps a bit older than her years and both had their emotions quite on the surface in a way that doesn't necessarily match this situation (my son is bringing home a woman he met on TV a few weeks ago and she's still dating 3 other guys and going home to their parents), so it's certainly possible. It's also possible that they're all just emotional about what they've been through and this has been a shitty year for most of us, but their appearances did make me wonder.

All of these guys (save Brendan) had some really deep shit going on in these hometowns. It was a bit disconcerting to see Tayshia working so hard to blend into each moment, knowing that she was going to cut one of them loose post haste. Now that I know she sent him home, it's extra sad to think of Ben gush to [his friend, I think?] and watching his sister be so open. Frankly, I think I'd pick Ben just to get that girl as a SIL, she seems awesome. I wonder how much those two girls wanted to punch Tayshia for ditching him so soon after that visit.

Quote

 While I do understand that Ben's silence made T sad and confused -- sort of like"did I mean nothing to him?" it seemed sort of greedy for T to expect an "I love you" at that point.

I missed that part, but it doesn't surprise me. And this is a moment where I feel like someone should have flagged Ben as not right for this show. It's a fluffy, self-centered moment for the lead to be like "hey, I'm sending you home, you should be upset" but with Ben especially, it seemed like he actually built something in his mind and couldn't process it not meaning the same to her. That kind of thing could do lasting damage to someone who's already fragile and already had trouble breaking down the wall. 

This show rarely results in any lasting relationships, might as well cast a bunch of dim bulb himbos with no emotional depth who think any publicity is good publicity. This year's show seemed to have some actually decent guys and it makes it worse as the fake process rolls onward. 

Edited December 17, 2020 by ljenkins782

[catrice2]

Hmmm I remember her on Top Chef, but mostly as Heavy D's girlfriend and mother of his child.   See, that's what I wish for the Bachelor...some musical breaks. Can you imagine at the After the Final rose or whatever they call it busting out some Heavy D..."Now that we found love what are we gonna do with it?"    

 

 

[Thumper]

32 minutes ago, catrice2 said:

Hmmm I remember her on Top Chef, but mostly as Heavy D's girlfriend and mother of his child.   See, that's what I wish for the Bachelor...some musical breaks. Can you imagine at the After the Final rose or whatever they call it busting out some Heavy D..."Now that we found love what are we gonna do with it?"    

 

 

What?  I am out of it.  Who is Heavy D?  I only know Antonia from Top Chef.

[Irlandesa]

2 hours ago, LuvMyShows said:

I was wondering where, if anywhere, we had heard how long he's been sober, but I couldn't find anything.

Zac had a recent post on his Instagram going a little deeper into the story about when he tried to use his dad's stolen checks and that's when he went into the rehab stint that got him sober. (Not his first but I guess the one that took.)

He said that day happened in Aug. 2011 which would mean he'd be 10 years sober in the summer. 

Quote

I missed that part, but it doesn't surprise me. And this is a moment where I feel like someone should have flagged Ben as not right for this show. It's a fluffy, self-centered moment for the lead to be like "hey, I'm sending you home, you should be upset" but with Ben especially, it seemed like he actually built something in his mind and couldn't process it not meaning the same to her. That kind of thing could do lasting damage to someone who's already fragile and already had trouble breaking down the wall. 

And this is why I'm not sure his sister and Antonia should be blaming Tayshia if Ben is hurt after she said goodbye.  They were almost too open for someone dating four people.  Heck, I don't think he would have seen his departure as losing someone he was in love with if the two of them hadn't been so gung ho about it.  It made me wonder if they even realize how vulnerable he is.

And no, the casting of Ben, who is wonderful, shows the uglier side of the Bachelorette process that was pilloried in the Lifetime show.  Part of this show is breaking the people down which is dangerous to do with someone who might be struggling.

2 hours ago, ljenkins782 said:

This show rarely results in any lasting relationships, might as well cast a bunch of dim bulb himbos with no emotional depth who think any publicity is good publicity. This year's show seemed to have some actually decent guys and it makes it worse as the fake process rolls onward. 

The Bachelor has a poor track record.  The Bachelorette's record isn't half bad.  There's a 50/50 chance that a relationship lasting more than the required two years comes out of it. 

2 hours ago, catrice2 said:

Hmmm I remember her on Top Chef, but mostly as Heavy D's girlfriend and mother of his child.   See, that's what I wish for the Bachelor...some musical breaks. Can you imagine at the After the Final rose or whatever they call it busting out some Heavy D..."Now that we found love what are we gonna do with it?"   

I remember wanting to eat her food.  I did not remember her having anything to do with Heavy D but sure enough, they were together before he died.  Wow.

Edited December 17, 2020 by Irlandesa

[Arkay]

     I just read a review that blasted the toppings at the "bagel store" that Zac had as part of his New York style date. I'm a lifelong New Yorker and it's true...NO NYC bagel store would have gummy bears and all those other frozen yogurt kind of toppings. Zac joked around with Tayshia for putting a blueberry on her bagel, and while there are stores that sell blueberry cream cheese, I don't know anyone who would order that.

  I know this is all set up by production assistants, so my question is, is anyone here from California? Are these typical for a Californian bagel store? I'm just wondering if it's even a thing. It certainly doesn't represent New York, though. 

 

[waving feather]

Zac shouting for taxi was the most attractive I found him all season. I feel like Tayshia thought the same; she was very charmed. 

[MsTree]

Everybody thinks she's going to pick Zac...and it certainly seems to be edited in that way. BUT, then Chris says something like "you think you know how it's going to end, but you don't..."   So, long shot maybe, but I hope she chose Ivan.

[chocolatine]

2 hours ago, Arkay said:

I know this is all set up by production assistants, so my question is, is anyone here from California? Are these typical for a Californian bagel store? I'm just wondering if it's even a thing. It certainly doesn't represent New York, though.

I'm not from California, but I lived in San Francisco for a little while, and pre-COVID used to travel to the Bay Area on a regular basis. My impression is that bagel stores aren't "a thing" in California (and on the West Coast in general). So yeah, it looks like a production assistant just set up a bunch of fro-yo toppings and called it a day.

As for blueberries in/on a bagel, that conversation reminded me of the scene in Sex And The City where Charlotte meets Harry for the first time:

 

Edited December 17, 2020 by chocolatine

[nlkm9]

12 hours ago, saber5055 said:

Well, it was a balcony, that other "B" word. It's been imitated, but never done as well as the originator did it. The Mesnick is a classic franchise move.

Right up there with the bachelor handshake , which i was horrified to see tayshia do on this episode . 

[JenE4]

10 hours ago, Arkay said:

It's a lot. Or a lawt.

I actually liked Jason, but I do remember this very well. I cracked up then and I am still laughing.

ETA: Maybe the only thing that I'm glad the pandemic has taken away from us is the audience at the live Bachelor shows. Just hearing the audience applaud for this dreck reminds me of all those people, bathed in a weird blue light, who ferociously applaud, or snarl, or cheer, or weep along. They are not my peeps. 

 

Personally, I love the audience’s over-the-top reactions at the Tell Alls and the After the Final Rose. My favorite are the people who get custom-made T-shirts. I like to think what shirt I would have made if I were there. This year I think I’d go with: I Showed Up for Claire and all I got was this lousy t-shirt.

[Just Carol]

I was expecting for the niece to give Brendan the bachelor handshake.  

Edited December 18, 2020 by Just Carol

[peachmangosteen]

11 hours ago, ljenkins782 said:

This show rarely results in any lasting relationships, might as well cast a bunch of dim bulb himbos with no emotional depth who think any publicity is good publicity. This year's show seemed to have some actually decent guys and it makes it worse as the fake process rolls onward. 

Seriously. In a way, I appreciate and like that so many of the guys this season (and all of the F4) seem like they are actually there for the 'right reasons' and just seem really genuine, decent, interesting, etc. But at the same time this show is much more fun to watch when you just look at it as a comedy and don't take it seriously, which is easier to do when most of the participants are obviously just there for a good time and some Instagram money.

9 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

Heck, I don't think he would have seen his departure as losing someone he was in love with if the two of them hadn't been so gung ho about it.  It made me wonder if they even realize how vulnerable he is.

Considering Ben never even told his sister that he tried to commit suicide multiple times, I think they definitely don't realize how vulnerable he is. He obviously doesn't show anyone his true self, which is so sad.

[catrice2]

10 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

Zac had a recent post on his Instagram going a little deeper into the story about when he tried to use his dad's stolen checks and that's when he went into the rehab stint that got him sober. (Not his first but I guess the one that took.)

He said that day happened in Aug. 2011 which would mean he'd be 10 years sober in the summer. 

And this is why I'm not sure his sister and Antonia should be blaming Tayshia if Ben is hurt after she said goodbye.  They were almost too open for someone dating four people.  Heck, I don't think he would have seen his departure as losing someone he was in love with if the two of them hadn't been so gung ho about it.  It made me wonder if they even realize how vulnerable he is.

And no, the casting of Ben, who is wonderful, shows the uglier side of the Bachelorette process that was pilloried in the Lifetime show.  Part of this show is breaking the people down which is dangerous to do with someone who might be struggling.

The Bachelor has a poor track record.  The Bachelorette's record isn't half bad.  There's a 50/50 chance that a relationship lasting more than the required two years comes out of it. 

I remember wanting to eat her food.  I did not remember her having anything to do with Heavy D but sure enough, they were together before he died.  Wow.

I am the queen of useless information.  Yes. I think she is a great cook based upon her appearances on television, but would love to taste it to confirm!  I still think this show needs more lighthearted music....music makes everything better! 

I too blame the show for Ben being here. Ben may be a good person, but my BS detector is UNMATCHED in the real world. I have friends and family that run so many things by me and my accuracy is pretty good.  Something about Ben is off, and it is not just PTSD and depression. Although I don't think people with mental health struggles should be discriminated against, especially if they disclose them, I do wonder if this was the right place and time for him.    I do think he was being used for ratings to some extent, because they had the option to edit out some of what was shared.  Clearly they edited out a lot of other interactions.   Just saw the clips and the way that was edited it is obvious Ben will come back, she'll have some realization and she will let him stay.  Ben strikes me as someone who wants to excel at things and he approached the relationship as proving himself that he could do something and be the best at it..... If I understood correctly unless he told her that night Ben's sister did not know about the suicides at the time of the hometown, unless that is something producers would have told her prior to coming so she would know.  

I don't think turtleneck boy is ready.  It could be that they just agree to date if she chooses him.  But as a part time model.....I can see her focusing on that.  He just seems to be too fragile and passive.  

Zac- is not her real type and will never work. She strikes me as someone who is desperate to make a relationship from this franchise to work, but she also wants someone who will fit her new lifestyle. Tayshia seems to be very  aware of how things look, and she will want someone who can look good on Instagram with her.   I don't think he will play along.  I have a problem with Zac just now going back to thank the bank teller who "saved his life."  For 10 years she has been working in the same bank.....I would think doing that would have been part of some type of program.  I know they sometimes encourage you to make amends with those you've wronged, so why take 10 years to thank someone who helped you....only after you have been on national television with your story..... But I hear she mentioned wanting to move to New York, so he could be convenient for a while.  She seems to have convinced herself that what she needs is an older  more settled man and Zac makes sense to her.

Ivan- Ivan knows that Tayshia needs to find herself first. Ivan likes her a lot, but I think Ivan knows he has no shot, but will ride it as long as he can.  He really is too mature for her...and he also does not fit wit the lifestyle she has chosen for herself.  Their goals do not align.  After hearing him on a podcast I hope he benefits from this connection, but moves on from this world.  He really is the total package. I also think a lot of their "lack of chemistry" is him being reserved because he knows she is not as into him and he doesn't want to put himself out there and the he fact that he knows she does not date men of color and she is not used to it. He is trying to build trust with her. It is also why she is more reserved with him....she is more comfortable with her usual type. 

Tayshia needs someone to challenge her.   Now that I understand she was in a 7 year relationship, then went into this franchise and has been trying to find a match within this artificial world I don't think she is really ready.  If she had been dating in the real world for 3 to 4 years between her Bachelor appearances that would be one thing, but she's been pretty in it consistently...so I don't think she knows what she wants.  She seems to be forcing it with all of them IMO, but maybe that is what the show is always like. I think coming in how she did she is feeling pressure to make it work.

 I think she will chose Zac or Ben ( who is 100% coming back at least to talk to her?) and really want Brendan.  I also think she is going to choose someone that the viewers will be "understanding" when it does work after a few months. I will have more respect and belief in the "process" if there is no engagement at the end of this show. 

 

[saber5055]

15 hours ago, Recyclorette said:

I just have to say how much I love this final group of guys.  It's so nice to see the respect and genuine affection they seem to have toward each other.  How refreshing, after so many years of catfights and pettiness right up to the end.

That's why I think the Bennett/Noah thing was scripted. At least on Bennett's end. Too much of it had TPTB's fingerprints on it, like the box of presents, the socks, the book. All PA-provided stuff. They even had Bennett come back to provide DRAMAH at the RC. They even had to dig up Yosef to bring back to cause controversy at TMTA.

Edited December 17, 2020 by saber5055

[catrice2]

30 minutes ago, saber5055 said:

That's why I think the Bennett/Noah thing was scripted. At least on Bennett's end. Too much of it had TPTB's fingerprints on it, like the box of presents, the socks, the book. All PA-provided stuff. They even had Bennett come back to provide DRAMAH at the RC. They even had to dig up Yosef to bring back to cause controversy at TMTA.

Yep.   I am even more annoyed that families are involved when I learn that Ivan's father is so high risk and put his health in jeopardy just to participated in this highly produced farce.  I wonder if she knew about his father when she chose him as final four because I believe she already knew then that he was not the one. 

  Can you just have a final 3?  Also, has Tayshia slept with anyone on fantasy suites before?  I honestly can't see Brendan wanting to actually sleep with her....not in a bad way, I just think it would be too meaningful to him to do it without knowing if he was the final one...Zac looks like he would be a disappointment......Ben is just strange... Ivan is not sure about her and he knows he's leaving so I wonder how he is going to handle that....

Is Ben the only one who really hasn't said much about his parents...at least not on camera?  If family is that important to her and any of this is real, I would have cut him too.  He clearly has family issues, whereas the others are obviously super close to their family and can talk about.  All Ben talks about that I've seen (and I mostly watch clips) is his sister and has alluded to issues in his childhood. 

[Crashcourse]

4 minutes ago, catrice2 said:

.Zac looks like he would be a disappointment...

This made me laugh!  

[jade.black]

My best friend and I still think Zac is super hot. Like fanning ourselves everytime he looks at her levels of hot. He's got this smoothness similar to Tyler Cameron in just being able to make whatever he says/does sexy. I was entirely jealous when he was making out with her in the fountain. She better take advantage of that fantasy suite (which, remembering her disappointment after her FS with Colton where almost certainly nothing impressive happened, I think she will). 

I think she's most into Brendan, but we'll see. I'm getting the same void-like impression you all seem to be from her. Big, shiny facade and mostly ego underneath. I hate when the leads want the men/women they dump to cry and beg them to keep them, it's awful. Best case scenario is for the person to calmly accept your choice and move on with their lives. Don't keep them hung up on you. Sean Lowe and that guy Chase who cracked a beer had two of the best exits I remember. No tears. Ben I find disconcerting and hard to watch, so I'm glad he's gone, but she shouldn't be trying to pull devastation out of a guy who has tried to kill himself.

Ivan's dad was the CUTEST! He had a Morgan Freeman-esque voice. I'd adopt him as a father.

I actually really enjoyed the makeshift hometown dates, I thought they were cute and creative. And what's with all the carnival hate? I freaking love carnivals. That and the New York date were my favorites (although yeah, blueberry on bagels=gross).

 

[catrice2]

Watching the clips back I realize this was a new situation, but they've been doing this for a while now. Why would they choose a place so notoriously hot and not either give them different clothes, or at least wiped them off during filming? It was so uncomfortable watching the people sweat....I mean Ivan was even sweating inside??!!   Who made that call? even with COVID restrictions they could have found a cooler place  to film where they could do outside things.  I also think they could have been more creative with the dates even in one location.   Clearly they were doing something to keep Tayshia "fresh" and sweat free, but they let the men drip like that...it was so ewww!!! 

I also affirmed how shallow I am.  I cannot get past the strange mouths on this show....so Zac and Ben could never be hot to me.....personalities aside none of them are physically wow.  Brendan has nice eyes, but the rest of him is very little boy like. 

 I appreciate that Ivan doesn't like to lead with his body like Ben does...and it is clear he is in good shape.  I find that interesting. Brendan too, but then again I wasn't watching at the beginning.  

 

[Crashcourse]

I don't remember names, but I think some of the best-looking guys have already left the show.  I agree about Zac's and Ben's mouths--something about them, I just know I wouldn't want to kiss them.  And Brendan does have lovely eyes and nice, curly hair but he's too boyish-looking.  Ivan is nice-looking--not hot--but nice-looking.  

[Arkay]

37 minutes ago, jade.black said:

 

I actually really enjoyed the makeshift hometown dates, I thought they were cute and creative. And what's with all the carnival hate? I freaking love carnivals. That and the New York date were my favorites (although yeah, blueberry on bagels=gross).

 

I like carnivals, too, but I think it was more that there was nothing about Brendan's date that distinguished anything about his hometown. I know he said it's a small town, but that carnival could be from anywhere. He should have had something, anything---banners from the high school football team, or anything unique to make his hometown more specific. 

I guess Ivan's date didn't focus on his hometown either, but at least it had the Filipino aspect of his family. Zac and Ben are respectively not from NYC or Venice Beach, but they live there now and tried to incorporate some aspects of that.

ETA: I loved Ivan's dad, too. Courtly old-school gentleman. I was concerned for him because it looked like he was in some pain and held himself very stiffly. We know he's had serious health problems. 

Edited December 17, 2020 by Arkay

[Irlandesa]

6 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

Considering Ben never even told his sister that he tried to commit suicide multiple times, I think they definitely don't realize how vulnerable he is. He obviously doesn't show anyone his true self, which is so sad.

Yeah. I know he shared personal details with Tayshia but I think I can see why she still feels he's closed off.  I wonder if he starts to withdraw the closer he gets to someone.  He can share the eating disorder and suicide attempts early on because those are things about himself but hesitates to share his feelings with her. 

3 hours ago, catrice2 said:

I honestly can't see Brendan wanting to actually sleep with her....not in a bad way, I just think it would be too meaningful to him to do it without knowing if he was the final one

I think if he's deeply attracted to her, and she's willing, he will sleep with her.  Just because he's quiet doesn't mean he's precious about sex. 

1 hour ago, jade.black said:

My best friend and I still think Zac is super hot. Like fanning ourselves everytime he looks at her levels of hot. He's got this smoothness similar to Tyler Cameron in just being able to make whatever he says/does sexy.

I mean him just sitting around doesn't really do much for me but I do think he has a certain confidence and swag about him and I do think he looks like a good kisser.

They all look rather decent in the kissing department.  I've only watched three seasons and there is usually a lot of bad kissing. 

Quote

Everybody thinks she's going to pick Zac...and it certainly seems to be edited in that way. BUT, then Chris says something like "you think you know how it's going to end, but you don't..."   So, long shot maybe, but I hope she chose Ivan.

I haven't learned much from this show @MsTree.  But one thing I have learned is that they always promise shocking twists and they're rarely twists or all that shocking. 

But if it's Ivan, that would shock me since I think neither are really into each other romantically.

Edited December 17, 2020 by Irlandesa

[thehepburn]

Just to clarify a few things.

I read that Ben's father is a doctor. Probably why he didnt show at HTDs.

I always thought Bennett is a plant but the show didnt give him the book on EI. He was already reading it in quarantine before the show started. Yes. Bennett gave Noah an used bk to go with the used socks. That bennett is a giver, y'all.

[catrice2]

17 minutes ago, thehepburn said:

Just to clarify a few things.

I read that Ben's father is a doctor. Probably why he didnt show at HTDs.

I always thought Bennett is a plant but the show didnt give him the book on EI. He was already reading it in quarantine before the show started. Yes. Bennett gave Noah an used bk to go with the used socks. That bennett is a giver, y'all.

They have FACETIME, Zoom, WebEX and the good old telephone....and is his mother deceased?  No big deal, I'm sure there have been parents before that didn't come. I personally would not if my child went on this show.  I would be in hiding...  

And before people say "they didn't know," Ben gives the vibe that he has had issues for a while. They may not have known what or how severe, but I'd bet they know they have a child with issues. 

Edited December 17, 2020 by catrice2

[Haute Messe]

On 12/16/2020 at 9:37 AM, saber5055 said:

Well, in my opinion Ben is one of the lucky ones who gets to live another day, and perhaps make it to BIP where the real fun is. I don't think Tayshia is "all that." In fact, after watching every episode of this season, I don't know anything about Tayshia deeper than her hate for bras.

Oh, I wholeheartedly agree! Not a fan of hers at all. Bullet dodged for sure.

[nutty1]

On 12/15/2020 at 9:26 PM, dirtypop90 said:

I think I felt differently about Ivan's date than others. I felt like he took a leap with this date. Right now I'm leaning toward Zac and Ivan as final two. I noticed neither of Brendan and Ben's parents showing up. Brendan mentioned his dad passed but not mom, I don't think. And I thought Brendan's hometown was pretty lackluster. Ben feels like a bachelor candidate to me more than a choice for Tayshia.

I actually think Brendan is pretty lackluster. He’s very handsome but seems boring. Though he did loosen up with his niece. 

She had a really nice final 4. All nice families too. But Ivan’s mom was the only one to really have her radar on, to actually be leery of the process. After Ben’s admission of recent suicide attempts, I think Tayshia would have been afraid to lead him on any longer. Ben never should have been on this show in the first place. Way too fragile. 
Great final 3. Given her reaction to letting some of the guys go, it’s going to kill her to say goodbye to 2 of these men.

 
Ivan is a great guy! But I think he is just in the Bachelor bubble with her. He can do much better!

I liked Noah. Carefree, fun. And I think he’s adorably cute. She should have kept him, had a fun fling and then they both could have parted ways. 
I don’t really care who she picks. It won’t last anyway!

Edited December 18, 2020 by nutty1

[tinkerbell]

On 12/17/2020 at 6:56 AM, JenE4 said:

Personally, I love the audience’s over-the-top reactions at the Tell Alls and the After the Final Rose. My favorite are the people who get custom-made T-shirts. I like to think what shirt I would have made if I were there. This year I think I’d go with: I Showed Up for Claire and all I got was this lousy t-shirt.

Oh, I'm pretty sure the shirts are made and distributed by production.  And that the audience is coached as to what and who to cheer for.   Remember when they had all the women in the  Bachelorette audience swoon for Juan Pablo, just before announcing him as the next Bachelor ? so the story could be that it was what the audience demanded, not a decision that had already been made.  Any woman who wanted to get on camera, the key was to say "oooh! Juan Pablo!"  

[CloseThisAccount]

On 12/15/2020 at 10:31 PM, LuvMyShows said:

I wonder why they went ahead and chose Matt to be the first AA Bachelor rather than waiting to see if a fan favorite emerged from Tayshia's season.  I think that many of us would have been thrilled to see Ivan in that role (since the odds don't look good that Tayshia will pick him).  Bet his dating prospects look very good once covid gets under control!

I'm twice his age and watch this show for all the wrong reasons but if they made Ivan the Bachelor, I swear I'd at least joke about applying. (That's as close as I'm gonna get)

[dvr devotee]

On 12/16/2020 at 10:46 PM, catrice2 said:

Hmmm I remember her on Top Chef, but mostly as Heavy D's girlfriend and mother of his child.    

Holy crap. You really just blew my mind. And here I thought Antonia was just generically divorced (because she's a woman successfully climbing the ladder in the cutthroat restaurant industry, so it made sense to me that a relationship might not last) so I hadn't an inkling that she used to be a rapper's girlfriend (or wife? The interwebs are not clear on this). WOW.

Edit: and I had to come back to say that "Now that We Found Love" has been stuck in my head for the past ten hours. And I really thought that "What can we do? What are we gonna do?/Roses are red and violets are blue" were the misheard lyrics of a nine-year-old me but, NOPE! But it's good they didn't have Google back in 1991 for me to have looked up the song's lyrics, because I'm pretty sure my mom would have been really upset if I asked her what "Let me slip my quarters inside your slot to hit the jackpot" meant. That probably would have upset her more than it did when I was five-years-old and running around the house singing Madonna "Papa Don't Preach."

*ahem* and to get back on topic--as someone who grew up outside of NYC, I was super bothered by that "bagel stand." Forget the incredibly wrong toppings, but no bagel they dug up in the middle of the CA desert would hold a candle to a real NY bagel. But Zac does look like a really good kisser, and he has that good Jersey boy swag (as opposed to the terrible "Jersey Shore" swag as perpetuated by the native New Yorkers aka "Bennys" on that terrible show).

Edited December 19, 2020 by dvr devotee
Because now that we found love, what are we gonna do with it?

[Jax7917]

So .. Tayshia dumped Ben and got mad at him for not crying ? And what emotion did she show when she sat down with him and told him he was going home ? It’s not like she was distraught . I think the bachelorettes start the seasons off very humble but toward the middle to end , they tend to want the guys to grovel and if they don’t tell the lead they’re in love with them or don’t cry or “ open up “ aka come up with a sob story , they’re dust . 
 

That being said, I actually like Tayshia as a bachelorette . She’s not the most caring or the best at reacting to the sob stories , but she’s fun , bubbly and has a good personality overall. She’s down to earth with the guys and knows how to let loose .  

[Crashcourse]

Brendan is not feeling this at all.