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S05.E08: Spoiler Alert

paulvdb

By paulvdb
in Lucifer [V]

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Peace 47

Peace 47

(edited)

I did not like the punch-a-thon at the end of this ep all that much because it felt like it had no stakes.  They would punch, get knocked down, get back up, rinse & repeat.  When Lucifer had to kill Uriel in S2 to save his mum and Chloe, you felt the stakes leading up to that.  Here, I didn’t get the sense that they were trying to kill each other (which is fine), but I just wasn’t sure what it was meant to accomplish.  The Alias S2 finale from nearly 20(!) years ago had a fab episode-ending punch-a-thon, and I’ll probably go to my grave comparing all others to that one.

I did *love* the show soundtrack that played over the fight, with the driving violin music.  If I could buy that piece of music, I absolutely would.

I was spoiled for the fact that Dennis Haysbert would be appearing as God this season at some point.  In the ideal show that I made up in my head, I was kind of hoping that we would not really ever meet God on the mortal plane like this because one of the most compelling moments of the show for me was back in S1 when Lucifer was raging about the unfairness of life at an unanswering God in the sky.  But I do absolutely get that the only way for Lucifer to really resolve his Daddy issues is to bring God to Earth and who else but Dennis could play that role.

Tom Ellis’s face journeys when he and Ella found the body that they thought might be Chloe and when he hugged Chloe upon find her at the end were just ... *chef’s kiss.*

Edited by Peace 47
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BabySpinach

BabySpinach

(edited)

Solid first half of season 5, though (so far) not the home run that season 4 was. 

The Good:

Double Tom Ellis! Michael is such a dastardly, crooked little gremlin that he's almost sort of endearing. As terrible as he is, he's also scarred and bent and twisted and insecure, and he's always got this self-satisfied, shit-eating grin on his face like a deliberately misbehaving child. If he had a moustache, he'd twirl it unironically. His characterization is pretty basic, but he's fun to watch, which for now is good enough for me. We'll probably get to know him better in 5B.

Michael got found out by episode 2, and Chloe figured him out on her own.

Return of Lucifer and Dan's bromance, and Dan finding out. Super sweet, and I'm glad that Dan came around after the initial shock. It'd been hard to watch them in season 4.

Deckerstar cherry finally popped! About time that something moved forward on that front! Lucifer briefly losing his mojo (and getting whammied by Chloe) was also an interesting idea that was relevant to their relationship. And this could have been the start of a slippery slope where everything that made Lucifer distinctive and cool was slowly stripped away, but thankfully this was temporary (and he even got his invulnerability back!).

Ella gets a drama-heavy sideplot that lets her be a person rather than a motor-mouthed quirk machine.

Lucifer proves multiple times that he can easily take Maze in a fight, even when he's not particularly motivated to hurt her. I love badass Maze, but there's no way she would have been Lucifer's loyal servant if she was capable of kicking his ass. Demons value strength and power over all else, and she was no different until very recently. This dynamic makes much more sense than what 2.17 implied, that she and Lucifer were evenly matched.

Lucifer confirmed to have both angel wings and devil face! Carries over nicely from previous season, when he fully accepted the two sides of himself and used them both to save the day.

Charlie is not some shiny special snowflake. In my opinion, there's no character type more boring and obnoxious that a super-powered baby, so I'm glad that they wisely steered clear of that.

The Meh:

I found the fourth episode really dull. I was invested in what was happening in the main story, not a filler flashback. There were no real stakes.

The return of some unnecessary angst and drama, and more "Lucifer being an oblivious idiot" than I would have liked, especially after the massive improvement in season 4. Also not a fan of more over-the-top fawning over Chloe as the most amazing woman who ever amazinged, most prominently via the introduction of a still-lovestruck ex that gave me unpleasant flashbacks of Cain's advances and Lucifer's similarly hare-brained, jealousy-fueled shenanigans.

Lucifer chasing after her like an apologetic puppy after she learned of her miracle status. I just didn't like seeing him that way, especially after the thousands of years he spent in Hell for her (and the world). He also should have been allowed to tell her the whole story about Candy, and how he'd tried to give her a choice.

Much less development and examination of Lucifer as a character; most of his significant moments were tied to his romance with Chloe. More soapy and schlocky, not as focused and lean as the devil/angel inner conflict of season 4.

The Bad:

MAZE. Seriously, this is like the fourth time she's betrayed Lucifer. A sympathetic motivation or sob story may work once or even twice, but when a character CONSTANTLY lashes out and breaks the trust of their loved ones, I start wondering why we're supposed to root for them in the first place. Maze's biggest chip on her shoulder is that no one puts her first and everyone abandons her, but then she also deliberately screws with her friends and makes their lives miserable, over and over again. She's the only character who regularly does this, even though they all have their various baggage and hangups yet somehow manage not to constantly betray their friends. In terms of backstabbing, Dan is the only one even remotely close.

Intentional or not, the writers are gradually making it look like she's the real problem. I gritted through Maze's behavior in season 3 because I liked her so much, but I couldn't muster up much sympathy for her this time. She wasn't even particularly funny or entertaining this season. It's a real shame, because she used to be so awesome and badass and hilarious. The actress deserves better.

But overall, I felt that season 5A was still better than most of seasons 1, 2, and 3. Cool action and effects, good character drama (for the most part) and humor, and a very watchable Double Tom Ellis performance.

Edited by BabySpinach
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AnimeMania

AnimeMania

I had issues with the first half of this season, but really liked the second half.

I don't know how I feel about Maze's neck elongating neck rings necklace.

Dad's here! And he came down to tell everyone that all the damage they caused is covered by Allstate. It was close to being classified as "An Act of God", but not quite.

They decided to add a couple of extra minutes to the episode because everybody enjoys watching Michael get his Ass Whomped!

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Peace 47

Peace 47

(edited)
27 minutes ago, AnimeMania said:

 

I had issues with the first half of this season, but really liked the second half.

I think that is basically where I come out, except that I thought ep 1 was pretty solid.  My ranking of eps would be 6, 7, 5, 1 or 8 (tie?), 2, 3, 4.  And I liked this Season 5 Part 1 better than Season 4 because although I think it did the celestial storyline worse than S4 (especially in this ep 8 where there was not a lot of clarity to Michael’s motives or the nature of the threat he posed), I think the character relationships were more enjoyable (Deckerstar is 1000% more enjoyable; and I like Lucifer & Dan; Lucifer & Ella; Amenadiel & Chloe, etc.)

I liked at the end of this ep where Lucifer was confronting Michael that he asked why Michael brought Amenadiel into this. I really like how Lucifer and Amenadiel have each other’s backs and are so close.    They have come a long way, and like I said in another thread, the entire rest of their family kind of sucks, so it’s nice that they have each other.

I really like that Chloe and Lucifer talk like adults about their relationship these days.  If something bothers one of them, they talk about it.  It doesn’t get bottled and lead to angsty misunderstandings.  Here, Chloe said flat out that she worried about what his invulnerability meant and whether that was a bad sign.  Not everything gets solved, but at least they’re talking.

Edited by Peace 47
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StarBrand

StarBrand

I was really disappointed to see Ella's nice boyfriend turn out to be an emotionless serial killer. If Ella had a hard tiime accepting Charlotte's death, this will break her. I really hope that Pete's observation that there is darkness in Ella doesn't mean she's going on an arc similar to Dan last season.  Since everyone but her is now read in on Lucifer, she, above all, might need to see proof of divinity more than ever.

Dan was initially scared shitless about Lucifer, although he seemed to come around by seeing Lucifer's desparate need to rescue Chole.

This 1st half felt more like a build up towards the final eight.   I figure that's where a lot of the "good" stuff will be, so the jury's out on the overall quality of this season, but I'm encourageed by what I've seen so far...

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Sakura12

Sakura12

I don't think there was supposed to be any stakes in the Angel fight. To us humans it means more to us, then it does them. To them they were just brothers messing with each other and fighting each other like they have done for a millennia. Even Dad showing up felt more like a parent breaking up a sibling fight, then him coming down because he was worried about humanity. 

These are celestials and a demon we can't think of them like humans. They are not going to learn and grow like us. Luci still focus's on himself when he feels slighted and doesn't think about others. They have have learned to care about some humans but they still care about themselves more. I don't expect Maze a soulless demon raised in hell to be better than a fallen Angel and Luci has grown a bit but still reverts back and makes it about himself.  Maze is going to act like a demon when she feels betrayed. I actually love that about this show. They don't suddenly get better because they interact with humans. I'm happy that super special Chloe didn't magically make the Devil better. Lucifer still has to work to make himself better. They still have their flaw. It can be annoying to keep repeating it but it takes us humans an long time to break bad habits we've only had for a few years. They've had their bad habits for thousands and thousands of years. 

Poor Ella, I called her new boyfriend being a killer because he was to good to be true. But that is going to break her. Hopefully they bring her in on the secret now that Dan knows. They should let her know that her faith is real and not to lose hope. She can see that even the Angels have darkness in them but it's how you deal with that darkness that makes who you are. 

I did enjoy the latter half of this part of the season more than the beginning. I loved season 4, but I'll have to see this whole season before I can decide how I feel about this one. Dad being around is going to make it interesting. 

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wilnil

wilnil

I'm thinking Michael's grand plan was just to force Divine Intervention. Now he'll get to take credit for getting Dad to suspend His "you've all got your free will, let's see how you use it" hands-off policy.

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Helena Dax

Helena Dax

Wow, I didn't expect that surprise at the end! It opens a lot of possibilities now; I can't wait to see what's going to happen next. Deus ex machina indeed!

I like how Dan put aside the demonic situation for Chloe. He's going to be fine. And I guess it's easier if you have people you can talk about it with. They can help you to get over the shock.

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lorbeer

lorbeer

I had a feeling it was Ella's boyfriend, he was too weird.

I liked this season but it lacked a bigger goal. Do we know if there going to be more seasons? Or was it the show's finale?

I hope little Charlie will turn out to be a celestial ceature after all. Such a sweet little angel. 😁

 

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wilnil

wilnil

59 minutes ago, lorbeer said:

I liked this season but it lacked a bigger goal. Do we know if there going to be more seasons? Or was it the show's finale?

Don't worry: There are another eight episodes of Season 5 still to come, and Netflix has renewed it for a sixth season.

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thuganomics85

thuganomics85

Dammit, of course Pete ends up being a serial killer!  Alexander Koch really does seem to end up playing characters who go psycho at the end.  I'm not even all that wild about Ella, but I really felt for her at the end.  I'm not sure where she is going to go from here.  Might be wise to just put a pause on any type of romantic relationship for now...

Fun watching Lucifer channel his own version of Chloe, and end up working the case like a detective mainly would (baring a few breaking and enterings and so forth.)  It also allowed Ella to play a bigger role as well, and their dynamic was fun.  And, despite their issues, Maze diving when once she heard that Chloe was in peril.  At least she still has that going for her.

But, of course, all of this was just Michael's grand plan to cause chaos for Lucifer and Amenadiel, and it certainly seemed to work on some levels.  Chloe is now worried over Lucifer fully committed to their relationship since he's got his mojo back and is invulnerable even near her.  Maze is now pissed enough with Lucifer that she's betrayed him (again.)  Amenadiel is so freaked out over Charlie being immortal that he's possibly frozen time inadvertently.  Yep, Michael sure did mess things up!

Because it's gotten so bad that "Dad" has arrived!  I love that God's first physical appearance on this show seems to be basically a celestial version of an annoyed parent coming down into the basement to tell his unruly kids to knock it off.  Can't wait to see Dennis Haysbert's take on the role.  Hope we get some good scenes with him and Amenadiel, since Haysbert and D.B. Woodside played brothers on 24 (currently binging that for the first time ever.)  At least we know that one way to help get yourself to Heaven: switch to Allstate.  Because that insurance is God approved!

Glad that Dan seems to already be on the up and up about things.  Curious to see how his relationship with Lucifer will continue on, but he'll hopefully not be trying to shoot him again going forward.

All in all, a bit of a slow start this season (thanks to the Lucifer/Chloe drama), but I thought it definitely picked up in the second half, and I can't wait to see how the rest of this season plays out!

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AnimeMania

AnimeMania

3 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

I'm not even all that wild about Ella, but I really felt for her at the end.  I'm not sure where she is going to go from here.  Might be wise to just put a pause on any type of romantic relationship for now...

Maybe Ella will turn to God, now that he is in the room next door.

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norcalgal

norcalgal

Poor Ella. I was hoping her boyfriend would turn out to just be a normal, sweet guy. I hope Show doesn't make her revert back to Bad Boys in the future. And may I say I am enjoying all your snarks about All State?  tee-hee

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Gwendolyn

Gwendolyn

I like the fact that Michael is using everyone's own insecurities/fears to drive his chaos, instead of an outside source. At the same time, in universe it's been explained God has a plan, so he's probably behind whatever Michael is doing. So while Michael thinks he's manipulating the situation for his own gain, he's probably just a pawn.

Plus the familial dynamic, that even though both Lucifer and Amenadiel know Michael and his tricks, they still fall for them, because no one ever knows how to push one's buttons quite like a sibling.

I appreciated this half of the season they shook up traditional pairings having Lucifer work with Ella and Dan, while Chloe worked with Amandiel and Maze. It plays into the fact there's more to Lucifer and Chloe's relationship than just partners solving crimes and proves this show is an ensemble. Yes, it's Lucifer's and Chloe's story, but giving everyone a chance to shine makes the show richer.

Though if I have one wish for second half of season 5, for Dan to find out he slept with God's ex and Lucifer's mom. Not because Dan is the in-universe punching bag, but because I think Kevin Alejandro can play the heck out of the comedic repercussions of it. And Linda getting to meet God after all her interactions with the Goddess. She is the mother of his grandchild after all.

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roamyn

roamyn

I had a feeling abt Pete last episode.  It was almost like he was feeling Lucifer out in the hallway.  I think Ella should go for the geeky guy on KillList or whatever that website was.  I think he would fit right up her alley - awkward, geeky, a little dark.

During the opening credits, I just noticed that Tom Ellis is an ‘Executive Producer’. Usually that just means more money & a lot more pull in storylines, and I wonder if this was the driving force begins the ‘dispute’ earlier this year.

Speaking of... he did a hell of a job (pun intended) in making me see two different angels in Lucifer & Michael.  The effects were top notch again, too.

Toobad Uriel’s dead.  Because I can so totally see Dean Winters (Mayhem guy) playing the patterns angel, like @MrPissyPuppy suggested.

How many cops will say “Hey Safe Driver’s Save 40%” once time re-starts?

I thought Remiel sensed a new celestial last season?  So is Michael lying abt that, too?

Now my biggest pet peeve...Maze.  I could sympathize with her in S3, even if I didn’t like how she manipulated Chloe & Lucifer.  But this is too much.  HOW does she know that Michael has never lied to her?  Yes, he told her the truth abt Lilith, but so fricking what. Maze has NEVER shown any inclination of wanting to see, meet or hear abt her mother.  Maze was Lucifer’s trusted #2 for millennia and she could’ve asked millions of times.  She KNOWS Lucifer doesn’t lie, keeps his word, and honors deals.  This feels too shoe horned to keep the sides even.  Tho I didn’t like Lucifer calling her “just a demon”.  Maze used to be a STRONG - mentally & physically - being, now she’s all weepy abt “abandonment issues” - Lilith, Eve, Lucifer, Chloe.  She fought off 12 people & ran 4 miles to protect her best friend and open up abt her emotions (the “I’m sorry” to Dr. Linda), yet now is pining for the woman who left her thousands of years ago as a baby?  Pppffff....

All in all a good season so far.  Not quite S4, but that had a tight window of 10 episodes, not 16 split into two.  So there’s bound to be some stretching of plot lines.  Not as bad as S3, of course.  Nothing could be that bad.

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theatremouse

theatremouse

But also did I dream it or didn't Charlie fly last season? Which is why there is bubble-wrap on the ceiling fan? So....either he de-celestialed...or he can turn it on and off...or what? He's a demi-celestial? Is he Hercules?

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roamyn

roamyn

7 hours ago, theatremouse said:

But also did I dream it or didn't Charlie fly last season? Which is why there is bubble-wrap on the ceiling fan? So....either he de-celestialed...or he can turn it on and off...or what? He's a demi-celestial? Is he Hercules?

No, they bubble wrapped the ceiling & everything in case he had wings & could fly.  But no wings yet.

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Mazzy

Mazzy

I didn't get as much out of this first half of the season as others did. It felt a bit like Lucifer had jumped the shark, except that I always will love seeing these characters even if the plots are tired or contrived. The whole Michael thing has been done in every possible angel-related series known to man. We get it, Michael is an asshole. #overplayed.

 

I would have liked to see the Dan finding out angle explored some more. He's the only character who is reacting appropriately to such news, and I get that it's a dramedy so you don't want to get too deep in the fact that our protagonist is the actual devil or that Chloe is having sex with the actual devil, but we have dealt with a little bit of heavier stuff with Lucifer's feelings and obligations, so having that Dan subplot as the 'deep end' I think would have been a nice addition, but it seems it's not going to go anywhere at all and like all other characters Dan will just accept it. Stellar acting by the actor though in that moment when he was seeing Chloe defend Lucifer. It looked as real as you'd expect anyone finding out this info to act in real life - confused, horrified, aghast, and terrified all at once and he showed all those emotions perfectly.

But otherwise everything seemed a little too contrived to me. Demons have no souls because they are created, but all of a sudden Maze isn't created, she has a mother who supposedly birthed her and gave her up. And all of a sudden Maze has deep feelings even though she has no soul which is supposed to be the premise for feeling most any emotion. I don't like it. It has fundamentally changed the Maze character into a lesser being IMO. Mazakien was supposed to be hell's most ruthless torturer and successful soldier to Lucifer and now she's a sniveling mess. Stop.

I AM excited for Garcia to find out though. So that's something to look forward to.

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Peace 47

Peace 47

1 hour ago, Mazzy said:

 

I would have liked to see the Dan finding out angle explored some more. He's the only character who is reacting appropriately to such news, and I get that it's a dramedy so you don't want to get too deep in the fact that our protagonist is the actual devil or that Chloe is having sex with the actual devil, but we have dealt with a little bit of heavier stuff with Lucifer's feelings and obligations, so having that Dan subplot as the 'deep end' I think would have been a nice addition, but it seems it's not going to go anywhere at all and like all other characters Dan will just accept it. Stellar acting by the actor though in that moment when he was seeing Chloe defend Lucifer. It looked as real as you'd expect anyone finding out this info to act in real life - confused, horrified, aghast, and terrified all at once and he showed all those emotions perfectly.

I think the writers “smoothed” the path for Dan to be accepting of the situation by having Lucifer and him grow closer this season, while simultaneously having Dan earnestly work on being a better person, so the way the resolution to Dan’s journey played out worked for me (especially because Kevin and Tom have good chemistry and are more fun to watch when they are getting along then when they are sniping at each other).

Plus, Dan saw firsthand pretty quickly that Michael was the bad guy, had kidnapped Chloe and that Lucifer was on the verge of tears of relief when Lucifer and Chloe were reunited, so all of that seemed like a sensible acceleration of his acceptance.  He and Linda took the news very well, all things considered.  (Wish that they had written Chloe to be a bit more like them when she found out.)

It sometimes astounds me, though, that Dan and Chloe have no residual jealousies or awkwardness around their divorce.  Dan’s even been giving Lucifer pointers on how to connect with Chloe in S5, even though Dan was kind of jealous of Jed in 5x06.  But Dan and Chloe seem to view each other as family, and that’s nice.  (Their marriage even sounds like it might have been kind of transactional and without a ton of romantic love.)

3 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

The real downside is that we'll never see what Lucifer's payback plan was.  He stayed up all night and filled out two whiteboards so you know it was epic

I saw that there was a “Vitruvian Dan” in the background on one of the whiteboards.  It was a funny visual.

Lauren German did a good job with the sounds of being attacked and kidnapped.  Her scream really chilled me.

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tennisgurl

tennisgurl

Not too shocked about Pete being a serial killer, especially when they realized that the guy they caught was a copy cat. Hmmm there is a mysterious murderer running around, as well as just one new character who has just been introduced, I wonder who the killer could be... Poor Ella though, that really sucks, she was better off looking for petty crooks and such, at least she knew what she was getting into, she just has the worst luck with guys. 

Fun watching Lucifer try to solve the case without Chloe around, even if the whole "kidnap my girlfriend to get at me" story is rather overplayed, they did some good stuff with it, and it led to a good pay off of Lucifer learning to be an actual detective and not rely on his charm or his mojo this season. Not too surprised that Michael was behind it all, even though they had me doubting with the classic "I have information I am about to say and its super important oh wait shit" conversation over the phone that it might be the serial killer. Michael is just the worst, of course this is all him and his petty ass vendetta against his brother. I also appreciate the mixing of pairings lately, like Lucifer and Dan, Amenadiel and Chloe, Lucifer and Ella, etc. 

Poor Amenadiel, I can imagine that realizing his son is mortal is a big blow. Its not really freaking out about a cold, its that his son is going to die, and while presumably his soul will go to heaven and they can still see each other, thats still a tough, especially for a parent that has been alive for a few millennia and will presumably keep on living for millennia still. Charlie will live a human life time, thats a very different experience. I do wonder if baby Charlie does have any angelic powers? 

Dan was really falling to pieces, and considering he was manipulated and was freaking out that Lucifer was a monster, I cant really blame him, especially after everything. I am really glad that seems like he is already coming around to accepting things and that Lucifer isn't really the bad guy here, so I am interested to see where he goes from here, and that he is already getting used to the idea of who Lucifer really is. I am glad that he knows now, even if the way he found out sucks, I cant wait to see his reactions to realizing how many people in his life are actually celestial/demonic beings! He might have found out off screen about Maze, considering she went with them to get Chloe, but I hope we get to see him finding out that Amenadiel is an angel, who Mom was, and all of that. The only major character not in the loop now is Ella, and I am actually really interested in seeing how she reacts to this, considering how religious she is. 

Maze Maze Maze, are we really doing this again? Really? Maze betrays her friends due to her angst and sides with the villain? How many times must we do this dance?! I miss when Lucifer and Maze were actually tight, albeit in a kind of dysfunctional way. I think that Maze looking for a soul and figuring out if thats why she struggles with making connections is decently interesting (maybe track down that Romani clan that gave Angel his soul?) especially as I dont think her having a soul really matters, considering Maze does have the ability to care about people and form connections, it seems like its more her personal issues that get in her way, more than her nature as a demon, but I do thats a decent idea to explore. How much of Maze is intrinsic to her nature, and how much is just her personality? What are other demons like? But now we just get the same dumb plot for her, I just cant buy her siding with Michael, this guy is so obviously a dickhead, and while she is pissed at Lucifer, she is also siding with the guy who kidnapped her pal Chloe and she attacked Amenadiel, who she has no reason to be upset at whatsoever (yeah he would be fine presumably, but still) and siding with asshole Michael could hurt other people that she cares about. Really, its not even just me being annoyed at her for betraying Lucifer, its that we are doing a variation on the same story we have already gotten for her. Not that Lucifer really helped with that "your just a demon" comment. Like, I know he was upset about Chloe, but what a dick thing to say! Just say that she could maybe get a soul, or try not to sound like Maze is on the same level as a fungus, and that her having a soul is as silly as a duck wanting to become the king of France. 

Just when things are starting to get super real, dad arrives! And God is Dennis Haysbert! I am super excited to see God himself and see what impact he has on the story, and finally figure out what his deal is. He seems to have been working things behind the scenes, so does this mean we finally get some hints as to his plan? I do love that when he finally shows up, its with the tone of a parent driving a car and telling his whining kids in the back seat to behave themselves. Dont make me turn this planet around! 

Its hard to say how I feel about the season overall, I think I will need to see the whole season to really get a feel for it. It wasn't quite the home run of season four so far, but it was very solid and seems to be setting up for a really interesting second half. I enjoyed the season overall, even if I am still not that interested in Chloe/Lucifer and that being such a major part of the show, but I thought it was a strong half a season overall. 

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UnoAgain

UnoAgain

Had fun this half season.. My fave scenes are still celestial in nature.. And preferably not all deckerstar all the time... They've never been that compelling to me... Don't love Maze siding with Michael.. But I do understand her.. Also anytime Lucifer can get called out for his BS, I'm down with he's almost always been too obsessed with Chloe for my liking 

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UnoAgain

UnoAgain

9 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

So is he going to give Chloe the ring and make her immortal or does the baby get it? 

I'm not sold that Charlie is a plain mortal... Remiel knew a new celestial was born.. Plus where's the fun in giving a baby an Archangel parent and then making him mundane... So I figure with with grandpa showing up... Charlie will be ok

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AnimeMania

AnimeMania

1 hour ago, DoctorAtomic said:

So is he going to give Chloe the ring and make her immortal or does the baby get it? 

I imagine Chloe, she can spend hundreds of years in Hell with Lucifer while at the same time only being away from Earth for only a day or two. Just imagine what a great cop Chloe will be if she can pop down to Hell and interrogate the victim and watch how the murder happened, then pop back up to Earth and arrest the culprits.

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Peace 47

Peace 47

(edited)
10 hours ago, UnoAgain said:

I'm not sold that Charlie is a plain mortal... Remiel knew a new celestial was born.. Plus where's the fun in giving a baby an Archangel parent and then making him mundane... So I figure with with grandpa showing up... Charlie will be ok

I agree that there’s probably more to Charlie.  The other angels have self-actualized their appearance, wings and powers, so maybe the baby just doesn’t have the mental development yet to manifest angelic characteristics.  Like he has to grow into what he thinks he is over time.

I also wanted to ETA that I agree with most of your post, @tennisgurl, and liked what you said about the Maze issue.  I just can’t help loving this show specifically for the Lucifer/ Chloe romance, though, so that’s probably where we part ways.  I’d probably give this first half of the season a B/ B-, absent all the great Lucifer/ Chloe interplay (it really was a shipper’s dream).  I’m so happy with the Deckerstar stuff it pushes the whole season into the “A” category for me, as I found them completely adorable. 

Edited by Peace 47
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Loandbehold

Loandbehold

I had noticed TE was made an Executive Producer, but was surprised to see Kevin Alejandro directed this episode. Was this his first directing gig on the show or has he directed episodes in prior seasons? Considering he was drunk for most of this episode, he did a pretty good job behind the camera. 

As others have said, while I'm not a big fan of the Luci-Chloe ship, I did like that they acted mostly like adults and spoke to each other about their problems, as well as seeing Dr. Linda for counseling. Also, I would have no objection to in future episodes seeing LG once again wearing a men's button down shirt while in bed (sure that's in the prior episode, but I watched both tonight so it's fresh in my mind). 

Poor Ella. She finally gets a storyline and it's dating a serial killer. You knew he was up to no good when he gave Ella the apartment key on what, their second or third date? And, he talked about how his editor had just put him on the Whisper Killer beat, but he also had all this research already on him. Tough to compile all that info when you were taking your girlfriend out to dinner, taking her home, having sex, and giving her an apartment key. 

I enjoy watching Maze kick ass and her description of why the Copycat Serial Killer wasn't lying was great. The worst torture was repeated playing of "It's a Small World After All." Having been on the ride, I can attest to that being close to the ultimate torture. Unfortunately, her story is once again being a demon, or should I say "just a demon," scorned. 

I'm thinking if baby Charlie is a mundane, Amenadude might be able to change it either through celestial or possibly in conjunction with pharmacological means. After all, he is running LUX and if anyplace could have celestial drugs, it would be LUX. 

The second half of the season will need more Trixie. 

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Gwendolyn

Gwendolyn

1 hour ago, Loandbehold said:

but was surprised to see Kevin Alejandro directed this episode. Was this his first directing gig on the show or has he directed episodes in prior seasons? Considering he was drunk for most of this episode, he did a pretty good job behind the camera. 

This is his second time directing the show. The first time was "Once Upon a Time" the "what if..." episode at the end of series 3.

The more I think on this season, especially as it's only half and not the full story they were planning to tell just yet, I'm less annoyed by the Maze is manipulated into betraying Lucifer again. For starters it's this little dance they do, he ignores her and she acts out. But for her, finding and losing her mother after Eve left, and her BFF made a baby with her ex, all her attempts to connect with Dan are rejected every time they do something he needs done, but feels is morally questionable, and finally Lucifer only remembering or caring about Maze when he has no one else, all of that adds up. If when she'd asked Lucifer it was possible for a demon to gain a soul, if he'd said "maybe" she might have told Michael to go away. Instead she's hurting and she only knows what she knows. She doesn't know her mother was so hurt by being dumped by Adam and banished by God that she wanted her children to grow up without love or a home to lose. She didn't want them to feel her pain, only she ensured they did, or at least Maze does. Instead she's developed a child like focus on getting a soul and then just maybe someone will choose her.

In Lucifer's defense, he's been told his entire existence demons don't have souls and can't get one. For as non-conforming as he thinks he is, not only does he know the celestial rules, he follows them until he realizes he is and only then acts out. It's just something he never thought to question and he was too wrapped up in trying to save Chloe to notice how upset Maze is. Not to mention he doesn't lie.

This is a long way of saying it's totally in character for both of them, and they are their own worst enemies. And by the end of the season they'll have sorted it out, with a little help from dear old Dad.

 

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GaT

GaT

On 8/25/2020 at 10:06 AM, tennisgurl said:

Not too shocked about Pete being a serial killer

I was so convinced he was the serial killer that I was shocked when the other guy turned up.

I'm tired of Michael, I hope Dad takes him back to heaven or maybe makes him the guardian of hell.

I'm also tired of Maze. She used to be happy with who she was, now it's all waaah waaah waaah. Enough. Maybe if dad makes Michael the guardian of hell, he can take Maze back with him.

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BabySpinach

BabySpinach

I think it's interesting that Amenadiel straight-up pointed out that Lucifer had no idea that Maze was angry at him. She'd chosen to seethe silently and scapegoat him without risking those feelings being challenged like they were in 5.03, when Lucifer had reasonably explained that she was no longer his servant, therefore he had no right to ask her to abandon the life she'd built for herself, and that Amenadiel could have flown her down if she really wanted to join him, to which Maze had no retort. She'd even admitted that her anger was misdirected, just before Asshat Michael returned to jumpstart a fresh grievance and misdirect it some more.

And Lucifer had no context into why his "just a demon" comment was so specifically hurtful because Maze deliberately kept her anger at him unspoken. He knew nothing of her desire for a soul (which I'm pretty sure is just another excuse for her to avoid truly dealing with her issues) or her reunion with Lilith, so I'm strongly against the interpretation that he deserves the blame for her betrayal, or that his distracted comment is concrete proof that he sees her as a mere tool/has no respect for her. It's also a disservice to her character's agency when her own choices are constantly put on others' shoulders. I'm not super into woobifying Maze, of all people.

Her fight with Lucifer was a lot more one-sided than any previous confrontation between them. He just looked so done with her, especially after she threw her blades at him then gave one to Michael that almost resulted in a human's death. Hopefully, we'll finally move forward with these two and get some permanent development (on both their parts) instead of another off-screen blanket forgiveness and reset.

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madmax

madmax

Finally finished this half season.

Really getting tired of Maze's behavior.  How many times can she go down that well?  How many times do the writers think we want to see it?  However, Lucifer was pretty dickish with the "just a demon" comment but also, as Linda has said many times, Lucifer is all about Lucifer plus he was worried about Chloe.  I do wonder, tho, could Maze be gaining a soul?  Since all the other stuff was supposed to be impossible (Lucifer falling in love, Amenadiel fathering a child with a mortal), why couldn't a demon gain a soul?  It would explain her recent "human" behavior.

I actually thought for a hot minute that Dan had kidnapped Chloe to keep her away from Lucifer, maybe to convince her dating the devil was wrong.

Ellis still amazes me how different he makes Lucifer & Michael.  And I think the accent got better.

I agree with the other posters who said it felt like God was just coming down to make the children stop squabbling.  I guess he skipped the announcement that he was going to turn the car around. 

 

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jewel21

jewel21

While I found the first four episodes lackluster, these last four were great! This is the show I love! 

Lucifer losing his mojo and freaking out. Chloe being supportive of Lucifer. Linda in general being her awesome self.... So much to love. 

Maze is killing me with the angst, and man, Dan is so broken. 

But mostly, I really felt for Ella. She finally tries out a nice guy, and he turns out to be a serial killer. 

The fight scene between all the celestials was really well done, and omg, God is in the house! Lucifer's face killed me.  

Give me the second half, please. 

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dargosmydaddy

dargosmydaddy

2 hours ago, rainsmom said:

Anyone know when the second half will drop?

Did they finish filming it before the shut downs? 

Agreeing with everyone else that this (half) season got stronger as it went along, and that the Ella's-boyfriend-is-a-serial-killer plot was way too predictable.

Theory: So Michael said outright later in the episode that he was trying to destroy Lucifer's relationships... it seems like having Dan fail at killing Lucifer would be much more effective than having him actually kill him, no? It resulted in Lucifer being pissed off at Dan, Dan being even more scared of Lucifer, and Chloe wondering why Lucifer is no longer vulnerable around her. So I wonder if that wasn't Michael's plan all along, and he give Dan a gun with blanks (or the angelic equivalent of blanks).

Although, if that was the case, I was expecting a quick pay off (Lucifer putting himself in harm's way around Chloe because he thinks he's invincible, and then getting seriously injured), which didn't happen (although I guess it still could in the back half of the season). And it doesn't explain the weird stuff going on with the mojo, which I'm assuming couldn't be manipulated by Michael.

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MaggieG

MaggieG

On 8/30/2020 at 7:28 AM, rainsmom said:

Anyone know when the second half will drop?

 

15 hours ago, madmax said:

The last I saw, second half was expected to drop early 2021.  Makes sense, if they've finished filming and need to put the episodes together.

I read an interview (I can't remember if it was with Tom or the showrunner) but they mentioned they have the second half filmed but got shutdown while they were halfway through filming the last episode. So hopefully they can get the OK to at least finish the episode so the second half can be aired soon. Not sure how long before we can get season 6.

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RachelKM

RachelKM

On 8/25/2020 at 10:06 AM, tennisgurl said:

Poor Amenadiel, I can imagine that realizing his son is mortal is a big blow. Its not really freaking out about a cold, its that his son is going to die, and while presumably his soul will go to heaven and they can still see each other, thats still a tough, especially for a parent that has been alive for a few millennia and will presumably keep on living for millennia still. Charlie will live a human life time, thats a very different experience. I do wonder if baby Charlie does have any angelic powers? 

This stuff with Charlie has been baffling.  Are Nephilim unknown in this universe?  I mean, they've been acting as if Charlie is a one time thing and this season has made several references to an angel having a child with a mortal like it had been thought impossible.  Granted, there are as many versions of the Bible as there are attempted translations.  But Nephilim are Old Testament and fairly well established in the biblical tales celestial and there activities on earth.

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tennisgurl

tennisgurl

1 hour ago, RachelKM said:

Granted, there are as many versions of the Bible as there are attempted translations.  But Nephilim are Old Testament and fairly well established in the biblical tales celestial and there activities on earth.

Not only is it kind of weird, considering there are a couple of references to Nephilim in the Bible, and even more in some semi canonical (depending on who you ask) texts, its really kind of weird that, with all of the angels apparently hanging around Earth or just popping by since the dawn of time, that this has never happened before. No angel before this has ever...opened wings before? I guess Lucifer is really committed to safe sex and birth control methods, considering the countless people he has slept with over the centuries. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that Charlie wasn't the only one after all, and they find a few more in hiding. 

Of course, what exactly Nephilim do or what they are like is never really explained in most translations of the bible and its all over the place in other portrayals. Are they giants? Monsters? Immortals? Mostly normal people with some extra powers thrown in? Are there just a few of them or are they a whole species? They are usually some kind of warriors, but do they have powers, or are they just really really good at fighting and also have some extra capacity towards greatness the way the kids of gods did in classical mythology? Evil? Good? Varies between the person? Charlie could be basically anything because the mythology is so all over the place. 

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