S05.E04: It Never Ends Well for the Chicken

[paulvdb]

Quote

The year is 1946. The world is black and white. And Lucifer is the star of his own noir detective story featuring familiar characters in new roles.

 

[Peace 47]

I have SO MANY QUESTIONS about the framing device for this episode, lol.  Why did Lucifer expect Chloe to show up for family game night after that horribly emotionally uncomfortable and awkward conversation that Deckerstar had at the end of the last episode?  They were very much on the outs.

Lucifer had been gone for 6 (corrected to say 2) months, and Chloe and Lucifer were at odds for a lot of S4, too.  Was that the first time he had seen Trixie since coming back?  There was no acknowledgement of anything more momentous than seeing each other for a regular weekly visit.  (I contrast that with the big hug reunion between Maze and Trixie in S4 after they had been apart for awhile.)

Lastly, does Trixie really know that Lucifer is an actual angel and the actual devil?  She was hearing Lucifer tell the story of being alive in 1946 and personally knowing Maze’s mother and having immortality, and this did not phase her.  But on the other hand, she was forcing him to gender bend characters, so did she just think that this was all a fanciful story that she was extracting for money on Maze’s behalf and didn’t believe a word of it?

The noir story was kind of boring filler, but the fact that there is immortality in the ring seems important.  I would place bets that the ring is going to come back and save someone’s (probably Chloe’s) life at some point when they are dying.

Edited August 23, 2020 by Peace 47

[Sakura12]

I wanted to meet Lilith and we finally did, but in some weird story. Did Dan just drop Trixie off at Lucifer's?

Was this shown out of order? Why would Chloe show up after last episode. 

So Luci's secret was that Maze's mother was alive living in New York. Maze is becoming more human since she seems to think the mother who hasn't seen her in thousands of years would want to talk to her now. 

Yeah, that immortality ring will be used some time this season. I'm not sure what Trixie believes, she's seen Maze's true face and heard all these stories. 

[Delphi]

I'm not sure why maze would be bothered by him not disclosing the Lilith thing.   She knows he's a devil of his word,  he promised not to tell,  and Lilith did still abandon her children.  It's like,  not even a lie of omission unless Maze asked and we know she didn't care until recently. 

So the story reads,  I knew your mum,  she got out and told me not to tell,  you started out as a subject but became my friend and I didn't wanna tell you that your mom was garbage who didn't want you because it seems like Lilith was treated like a crackhead by God and forsook everyone.   That's not Luci's fault. 

 

[AnimeMania]

What a horrible episode, it has everything I hate, it was mostly in black and white, the writing was bad, the jokes were flat and the accents were all over the place. The plot was decent.

Was that supposed to be a real song because the lyrics could have been so much cleverer filled with double entendres that might have been relatively innocent back then but would be full of meaning today.  Something like I would go to a fancy restaurant and toss all their salads, stuff my face till I choke on their chickens, place some buns in the oven or not stopping till I'm full of Cream Pie. Anything to make that song interesting or naughty.

I am surprised a rival mobster didn't come into the nightclub, shoot up the place and claim it as their own.

Lilith said that the demons should remain in Hell and never live on Earth. I wouldn't be surprised if Lilith thinks Maze is a failure as a demon.

[sharifa70]

7 minutes ago, AnimeMania said:

Was that supposed to be a real song because the lyrics could have been so much cleverer filled with double entendres that might have been relatively innocent back then but would be full of meaning today

It’s a real song. I have an Eartha Kitt CD where she performs it. Not my favorite. 

I thought she did a great job on “Someone to Watch over Me,” though.

Otherwise, I was a little annoyed by an episode that felt like an hour of faffing about, with about two relevant minutes. Nice to see Tricia Helfer, though: I miss Charlotte!

[roamyn]

Well I liked it.  Dan & Amenadiel’s characters were fun, ‘Jack’ & ‘Shirl’ were boring, but ‘Tommy Stompanato’ was so glaringly overacted it was hilarious.  The filming & lighting was beautifully done.

The jokes were flat, the first song Lilith sang was terrible, the fake driving screen while Lucifer & Jack were in the car, was so glaring, and the score was bad.

HOWEVER, I think the episode was set up to play that way, which means I didn’t take it seriously.  It moved the Maze plot a bit which I believe will be important.

The only glaring problem is that Lucifer has said several times that his ring was a gift from his father.

[theatremouse]

17 hours ago, Peace 47 said:

Lucifer had been gone for 6 months, and Chloe and Lucifer were at odds for a lot of S4, too.

I thought I heard several characters earlier refer to him as being gone "a couple" months. Did someone explicitly say 6 in this one? I don't recall that.

[Peace 47]

I honestly don’t remember now if anyone said anything about it.  Being a big fan, I followed some news about the show’s fifth season production.  It was mentioned in an interview months ago that the time jump for Chloe et al. would be six months, and then that kind of became commonly referenced in the news about the show coming back.  But I’ve watched so much Lucifer in the past day I can’t remember what they said about it in this episode or the show.

[DoctorAtomic]

Everyone seems to be having a blast this season!

I'm all in when they went to black and white. 

I love the captioning - dramatic 1940s music plays! 

Edited August 22, 2020 by DoctorAtomic

[thuganomics85]

I know it is a coincidence, but it's kind of funny that this is the second show I watch this year to bust out a film noir episode (the other being Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.)  I guess it's become popular now!

Kind of a filler episode until the very end, but I enjoyed it well enough, and I liked that all of the actors were clearly having a blast playing different characters and in a different style (baring Tom Ellis, who still did his normal awesome thing.)  Everyone had at least one moment to shine, but I think my favorite was probably D.B. Woodside getting to yuck it up as the magic huckster.  That's a side of him we normally don't get to see, so I got a kick out of it.

Cool seeing Tricia Helfer again.

Lesley-Ann Brandt got to shine again here.  Both for her acting skills and looking pretty damn good in all of those 40s outfits!

But it looks like the big secret is that Maze's mom, Lilith, ends up giving up her immortality to attempt a normal life, and Lucifer kept it from all of the demons, including Maze.  I guess I can see it amplifying Maze's abandonment issues, but right now, I don't see it being something that would destroy her relationship with Lucifer, like Michael wants it to.  Then again, knowing Lucifer, it is possible that he'll probably handle any potential confrontation about it the worst way possible, so we'll see.

Actually didn't predict that Trixie was working for Maze the entire time.  Unsure if she actually knows that Lucifer is "the Devil" or if she just thinks he is weird, and continuing to roll with it.  Especially since she's getting paid either way!  Trixie is going to be set for life, with he her abilities to have all of these adults wrapped around her finger!

[rwlevin]

On 8/21/2020 at 3:43 PM, Peace 47 said:

Lucifer had been gone for 6 months

Actually, it’s only been 2 months. Everyone keeps mentioning Charlie is only 2 months old which is why him laughing was such a big deal.

[DoctorAtomic]

I don't think Trixie knows the truth. 

21 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

Did Dan just drop Trixie off at Lucifer's?

I was going to say. Because she just showed up. Dan is an involved enough of a parent that I think he'd drop her off. I'm sure he pulled all her tricks to convince him. 

 

[Lugal]

I thought it was fun, and the cast clearly had ball.  And it was cool to meet Lilith (and seeing Tricia Helfer again).  However the main thing about this ep was how beautifully shot it was.  The key to B&W is knowing how to use light and I think they got that old silver look pretty well.  I'm not sure, but they might have bumped up the reds ever so slightly.  I also liked the callback to the classics with the back projection/bluescreen cars when they were driving.

[Peace 47]

10 hours ago, rwlevin said:

Actually, it’s only been 2 months. Everyone keeps mentioning Charlie is only 2 months old which is why him laughing was such a big deal.

Oh good point.  I forgot that Charlie was only that age.

[paulvdb]

12 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

I know it is a coincidence, but it's kind of funny that this is the second show I watch this year to bust out a film noir episode (the other being Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.)  I guess it's become popular now!

It's been popular for a long time now. I remember Step by Step did one in the 1990s. And it was probably not the first show to do it. But it's the first one that I remember and many other shows have done them.

[Gigi43]

I've wanted Trixie to have known the truth since she saw Maze's face but just hasn't felt a need to say so out loud. Why bother explaining to her slow on the uptake parents? Maze involving her in getting the story, I'm deciding to believe is confirmation she knows. I could be completely wrong but who cares. I thought the episode was okay until that little twist. I love all forms of Trixie and Maze being a team and Trixie being sharp. Why did Lucifer think it was his last night on Earth? Why would Chloe come? 

 

I thought the cast in the story was cute. Rachel Harris sold the sadness. I think Kevin Alejandro is a riot both as Dan and the weird guy in the story. I know the cast loved Tricia so this was a good way to have her back. Last episode ended with some momentum and it felt a little like a stall to it but you could tell they were all enjoying it which was nice.

 

I love Maze. I'm really hoping we're not in for yet another Maze betrays Lucifer or pushes away the people she does care about (Linda, Trixie, sometimes Chloe) but that was a sad well done ending Lesley-Ann killed.

 

And lastly, Scarlett Estevez is really growing up. She looked so big this episode. I didn't notice it in the season premier but maybe because she had more to do this episode.  It's like when I haven't seen my cousins in a while. 

Edited August 23, 2020 by Gigi43

[wilnil]

3 hours ago, Gigi43 said:

Why did Lucifer think it was his last night on Earth? Why would Chloe come? 

Because at this point, he still thinks he has to return to Hell and let Amenadiel go home, and the only thing that had been keeping him on Earth was dealing with Michael's mess, which he's done, as best he could.

[tljgator]

9 hours ago, paulvdb said:

It's been popular for a long time now. I remember Step by Step did one in the 1990s. And it was probably not the first show to do it. But it's the first one that I remember and many other shows have done them.

Yeah, I was texting with a friend and said "It's The Blue Butterfly episode of Castle, but with a ring instead of a necklace." Longstanding TV trope, this one.

[Gwendolyn]

On 8/21/2020 at 1:43 PM, Peace 47 said:

 Why did Lucifer expect Chloe to show up for family game night after that horribly emotionally uncomfortable and awkward conversation that Deckerstar had at the end of the last episode?  They were very much on the outs.

I'd have to watch again because it made the whole thing feel out of sync, but I justified it that Maze, had Trixie use Chloe's phone to text Lucifer that they were coming over, and in his eagerness to get back to normal he didn't question it.

After that you kind of just roll with it. Besides I've gotten used to the show dropping a plot point/clue and coming back to have meaning 6 episodes later. The ring had better be a big deal later between this and Maze's many, many glaring looks at it.

They thought this was their last season, the writers and cast had fun with it, so why not let them indulge in playing something different? Though an extra line of dialogue at the beginning would have helped it fit in the over all flow of the season. This episode wouldn't have stood out in Fox's whacky scheduling one week on, 4 wks off, but in a binge straight through it really seems odd that Lucifer was expecting an evening with Chloe.

[norcalgal]

On 8/21/2020 at 8:40 PM, sharifa70 said:

It’s a real song. I have an Eartha Kitt CD where she performs it. Not my favorite. 

I thought she did a great job on “Someone to Watch over Me,” though.

Otherwise, I was a little annoyed by an episode that felt like an hour of faffing about, with about two relevant minutes. Nice to see Tricia Helfer, though: I miss Charlotte!

ITA!!! I know Charlotte/Mum didn't entirely work as a character, but I just really like Tricia Helfer. In BSG, I assumed her character was meant to be mere eye candy with zero emotional heft, so color me surprised how much I enjoyed Six/Caprica on that show, and it was mostly due to Helfer's acting.

[tennisgurl]

So now that we got our meta episode, we follow it with our noir episode! A bit of filler (except for the immortality ring which will probably become relevant) but the cast was clearly having fun with the 40s vibe, and I especially enjoyed D.B. Woodside playing a The Wizard of Oz style magic huckster, he was hilarious and that whole scene was a real highlight. It was also nice seeing Tricia again, even if the story between her and Not Chloe was pretty dull. I think they were going for a thematic link between Not Chloe finding out that his wife was originally a hooker who was paid to hook up with him, and Chloe and her angst about being Lucifer's pre destined love interest, but it never really landed. 

The set up of this episode was weird, like it was supposed to be at a different time of the season, why would Lucifer be expecting Chloe to come to game night when they just had a fight? Why would Dan just drop her off at the bar? It seems Lucifer would have a few more questions, but maybe, like me, he was just really exited to get to see Trixie for the first real time in awhile! I missed her, and she is getting so big!

Cool meeting Lilith, although I hope this doesent lead to more drama between Lucifer and Maze, with Maze flailing about due to all of her issues and pushing everyone away, and Lucifer still not just telling her that he appreciates her. I just want them to get along for like three seconds. 

[DoctorAtomic]

Helfer is good in everything I've seen her it. They've been all large ensemble casts. She just plays well off other actors. 

[jewel21]

I've always hated these black and white, Noir episodes. Legacies also did one last season. I also found it boring.

I actually fell asleep during this and had to re-watch it. 

Am I the only one who feels this season is a bit of a let down after last season's fabulousness?

We're four episodes in and one was a meta episode, now we have a Noir episode, I just feel like not much has happened this season at all. 

[KAOS Agent]

2 hours ago, jewel21 said:

Am I the only one who feels this season is a bit of a let down after last season's fabulousness?

We're four episodes in and one was a meta episode, now we have a Noir episode, I just feel like not much has happened this season at all. 

You're not alone. I've only made it through these first four and I'm not overly interested. I like it when Lucifer is interacting with the others, so him not being there for the first two eps and then around for only one before they removed all the other characters again doesn't work for me. I also tend to enjoy the ridiculous aspects and too much angst and drama is dragging things down.

I'm also really not thrilled that Maze is using Trixie for her own nefarious purposes. I'm sure she's heading once again down the path of betrayal which will again lead to everyone being in danger and then she'll whine about how everyone is being mean to her when they don't immediately forgive her. I still don't understand why Chloe is anywhere close to being willing to being friends with her after how she pushed the whole Pierce thing knowing who and what he was.

[Linderhill]

On 8/23/2020 at 1:49 PM, tljgator said:

Yeah, I was texting with a friend and said "It's The Blue Butterfly episode of Castle, but with a ring instead of a necklace." Longstanding TV trope, this one.

I remember Jag used to do at least one episode a season it seemed like with the nostalgia noire bit.  Its a nice little diversion for the cast but this time it really didn't interest me all that much.  Maybe it was the weird gender swapping that really annoyed me or that one crappy Eartha Kit song that soured me.  The costuming was great and you could tell the cast was having fun but it wasn't my favorite of this kind of episode.

[DoctorAtomic]

I tend to think it's more for the actors really. 

[Peace 47]

On 8/24/2020 at 2:58 AM, KAOS Agent said:

You're not alone. I've only made it through these first four and I'm not overly interested. I like it when Lucifer is interacting with the others, so him not being there for the first two eps and then around for only one before they removed all the other characters again doesn't work for me. I also tend to enjoy the ridiculous aspects and too much angst and drama is dragging things down.

No spoilers, but the second half of this Season 5, Part 1 is a lot better than the first half.  There’s a little discussion about that in the ep 8 thread.  There’s some fun moments ahead if you can hang in there.

Was Lily Rose’s little speech to Lucifer at the end of the ep any kind of foreshadowing for any of our main characters? Lily Rose says as she sacrifices immortality that life is only worth something if there is an end to it (which is a common existential point in media and I think was recently made in “The Good Place”).  Of course on this show, there is existence for both humans and celestials after death (other than if celestials are killed by Azrael’s blade, which doesn’t exist anymore), so not sure how that tracks, unless Lucifer gives up immortality to live the same finite earthly life with Chloe, which I think he would do if forced to, but would kind of be a bummer for the show.  He and Chloe will have to deal in some way with how he is immortal and she is not.

Edited August 25, 2020 by Peace 47

[DoctorAtomic]

Unless she goes to live with him. 

[GaT]

Wow, that was a boring, stupid episode. I hate when shows stick in these black & white, noir episodes just because they can.

[Gummo]

Well, this season just gets better with every episode. 

Everything about this episode was clever and fun. There is a beauty to good black and white cinematography that is unique and can't be duplicated any other way. The saturation of Hollywood-style tuff guy slang and the obvious driving rear projection were loving tributes to the cheap but inventive film noir 'B' movies turned out by Hollywood by the truckload in the late 40s and early 50s.

A great way to give us some back story on Maze's mother, even if Lucifer's story was heaviliy fictionalized -- or was it? -- and it's always great to see Trixie, smarter than all the adults around her. The revelation that Trixie was working for Maze, and Maze's subsequent tracking down of her mother -- and their awful reunion -- made this more than just a gimmick episode.

I'm taking the season slowly and soaking it all in, and loving it!

[sharifa70]

On 8/23/2020 at 4:53 PM, norcalgal said:

In BSG, I assumed her character was meant to be mere eye candy with zero emotional heft, so color me surprised how much I enjoyed Six/Caprica on that show, and it was mostly due to Helfer's acting.

<small voice> I’ve never seen it. I might check it out now, though.

Every time I see Trixie I realize we don’t get enough Trixie!

[ProudMary]

On 8/22/2020 at 3:46 PM, thuganomics85 said:

I know it is a coincidence, but it's kind of funny that this is the second show I watch this year to bust out a film noir episode (the other being Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.)  I guess it's become popular now!

 

On 8/23/2020 at 4:47 AM, paulvdb said:

It's been popular for a long time now. I remember Step by Step did one in the 1990s. And it was probably not the first show to do it. But it's the first one that I remember and many other shows have done them.

Moonlighting, Season 2's "The Dream Sequence Always Rings Twice." (1985)  The first B&W, Film Noir-style television episode I can recall. Many shows have done it since, just not as well IMO.  Bruce Willis and Cybill Shepherd in one of the very best episodes of a great series.

This episode wasn't bad.  Mostly filler, but it was good to meet Lilith, and having Lucifer's ring be a Piece of Eden that confers immortality is certainly very interesting as the story moves forward.

When I heard the name Stompanato in the conversation, I wondered if they were going to inject real-life characters into the story, expecially when Lucifer also mentioned "Ernie" Hemingway, but no.  Speaking of names, in my head D.B. Woodside playing "Melvin the Magnificent" has to be a nominal homage to his character, Melvin Franklin in The Temptations (1998), the TV mini-series, where I saw him for the very first time. 🙂

Trixie and Lucifer! Trixie and Maze! No episode containing those pairings can be all bad.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 8/22/2020 at 6:31 PM, DoctorAtomic said:

I don't think Trixie knows the truth. 

I was going to say. Because she just showed up. Dan is an involved enough of a parent that I think he'd drop her off. I'm sure he pulled all her tricks to convince him. 

 

It bothered me that Lucifer just let her leave not knowing if Dan was there to pick her up.

I'm going to assume that Trixie told Dan that she had arranged with Maze to take her there and back.  Nothing else really makes sense (including Maze coming up in the elevator when Trixie pressed the down button-she took a chance that Lucifer might have accompanied Trixie downstairs, even if only to check out what was going on at Lux.)

 

Edited September 7, 2020 by ItCouldBeWorse

[theatremouse]

I think it's pretty in-character for Lucifer to see nothing odd with her coming and going as she pleases. That's sort of been a bit since the beginning, that he basically treats her like a small adult. 

[DoctorAtomic]

Yeah I don't see an issue there with Lucifer knowing or being responsible for her transportation. 

It's not even a hard fanwank to assume Maze showed up and told Dan she's taking Trixie to game night. 

 

 

Edited September 7, 2020 by DoctorAtomic

[Anela]

I'm not surprised that Lucifer would think that Chloe would show up at game night. I can't remember if she's ever outright shunned him before. She's always done her best to be understanding. I can understand why she's upset: every time she adjusts to reality, she gets smacked with new information. 

I'm glad that Trixie is a popular character. It seems like every show I used to watch, had a kid that annoyed everyone. 

[HurricaneVal]

On 8/23/2020 at 4:53 PM, norcalgal said:

In BSG, I assumed her character was meant to be mere eye candy with zero emotional heft, so color me surprised how much I enjoyed Six/Caprica on that show, and it was mostly due to Helfer's acting.

I had that thought when we first saw her in the first episode, but when (spoiler masked below)

Spoiler

...but when Six reached down into the baby pram and broke the baby's neck right as the Cylon attack was commencing, I realized that my thought was completely, and deliciously, wrong.

I do like her as an actress, so it was nice to see her in this noir episode, no matter how awkward her storyline was.

[Ireland77]

Wait ... so if Lilith was Adam’s first wife, is Adam Maze’s mother? So Maze is essentially in love with her former step-mother? 

[DoctorAtomic]

I think the legend is Lilith birthed the demons directly from her. 

[Emma9]

After Wonderwall, I was looking forward to hearing Lesley sing again, so I was glad to like the second song much better than the first.

 

On 8/23/2020 at 9:14 AM, Gigi43 said:

I love all forms of Trixie and Maze being a team and Trixie being sharp.

Trixie and Maze are the best, full stop. Even though it didn't add up to much interaction between them, I loved finding out that the entire episode was a plot they'd cooked up together.

 

On 8/23/2020 at 7:53 PM, norcalgal said:

ITA!!! I know Charlotte/Mum didn't entirely work as a character, but I just really like Tricia Helfer. In BSG, I assumed her character was meant to be mere eye candy with zero emotional heft, so color me surprised how much I enjoyed Six/Caprica on that show, and it was mostly due to Helfer's acting.

My first exposure to her was as a one-off character in Supernatural, where she did a really amazing job (although I feel bad that even now I still mentally tag her as 'Roadkill-Girl'). And yes, loved her here too. Not surprising for me with this show, however - I've consistently found every regular or recurring male character here boring, annoying, or both, and enjoy the females much more.

 

On 8/26/2020 at 9:42 PM, ProudMary said:

Trixie and Lucifer! Trixie and Maze! No episode containing those pairings can be all bad.

I did enjoy the return of their dynamic from Deceptive Little Parasite, especially her trying to cuddle against him on the couch and his dismay about it.

Edited January 27, 2021 by Emma9

[MissL]

This episode was ok. Definitely filler and fun for the cast.  Actress who plays Chloe is still the weakest link on the show which is part of the reason I stopped watching for a while when I realized the “Deckerstar” romance was going to be the focus.  Oh well I’ll try to enjoy the rest of it. Lord though I can listen to Tom read a phone book. That voice…..