S07.E12: The End Is at Hand / S07.E13: What We’re Fighting For

[blackwing]

I'm glad that I found this season very enjoyable, particularly after the awfulness of last season with Sarge and Izel.  I really feel like this show had its best seasons with 1, 2 and 3.  Things derailed with the awfulness of the Ghost Rider and Aida segments of Season 4.  Season 5 was ok but Season 6 sucked.  I loved the camaraderie of the team during the early seasons.  The scene of then-Skye imitating stiff and straightlaced Grant Ward, and him going along with it, was one of my favourite little scenes.  I really liked Ward and I don't really know why they decided to make him evil, I wonder if they wanted to keep Clark Gregg as the unequivocal sole male lead.  The only good thing to come out of the latter seasons was Yo Yo and Deke.

I'm kind of disappointed that we didn't find out what happened to Deke (he was Director in the 80s and then Mack is current day director, so is he dead?  Retired?  They could have shown a portrait of Old Deke on the wall at SHIELD.  And when Coulson was saying there are places he wants to go to, I really really thought that he was going to be shown in Tahiti.  For real this time.

They really pulled out all the stops in the finale.  The fight between Daisy and Nathaniel was amazing.  You could tell they spent the big bucks on sets and special effects.  The scene of Daisy using her Quake powers to project herself in the air, quake Nathaniel, leap over that geodesic dome, and come to a soft landing, was amazing.  THAT is how Daisy should have been using her powers throughout this series.

I am glad that everyone on the team had a happy ending.  I feel cheated that Nathaniel died when the ship exploded... for as much time as they wasted on him, I felt like we really deserved to see him actually die.

 

17 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Bummed we didn't get any surprise cameos from Tripp or Bobbi/Lance.  Heck, I would have even been down for a Ward sighting.  Maybe.

I was super disappointed we didn't see Bobbi and Lance... they were my favourites and I am still disappointed as to why they were written off the show.  I want to know how they are doing.  I want them to show up as characters in a future MCU movie.  Maybe a New Avengers movie?  I'm still pissed that they killed off Tripp, the cynic in me says it was to clear the way for Mack, who I've never really cared for.  And I was really hoping we would see a young Grant Ward somehow in the timeline and know that he turns out good.  

23 minutes ago, blueray said:

Some of it maybe because of Covid but I would have preferred a scene where they were physically together and not seem like they were all squeezing time in a busy schedule to see each other for a few minutes. Also "same time next year" well that's sad, so they really don't see each other. That being said, I will say I am happy that they did mostly get a happy ending. And that Fitz and Simmon's can raise their daughter together. And that May is teaching.

I completely agree.  It seemed so odd and cold to me.  "Let's schedule this once a year virtual meeting, but we are too busy to actually make time for each other, so we are just going to chat five minutes while we are in between doing other things."  I mean, Yo Yo was in a car on her way to a bust or something.  Mack was standing on the helicarrier flanked by his subordinates and waiting for something important to arrive.  Why not take the time to actually meet?  I get that Daisy is in space but why not set a meeting when they can all make it?  Or most of them make it physically and she dials in.  Also, if it's virtual anyways, why aren't they meeting on a more regular basis, like once a month?  It sounds like they haven't even seen or talked to each other in a year.

[jacehan]

3 minutes ago, blackwing said:

I'm kind of disappointed that we didn't find out what happened to Deke (he was Director in the 80s and then Mack is current day director, so is he dead?  Retired?  They could have shown a portrait of Old Deke on the wall at SHIELD.

They certainly couldn't have shown that. Deke was in a different timeline/universe - the rest of the team returned to the original one where the past hadn't been changed.

4 minutes ago, blackwing said:

Also, if it's virtual anyways, why aren't they meeting on a more regular basis, like once a month?  It sounds like they haven't even seen or talked to each other in a year.

It sounded to me that they had talked in smaller groups since then - they referenced things about their lives not as if they were learning them for the first time just there - but getting a group of people all together at the same time for a Zoom Call is hard even when they're not secret agents or in space!

[rmontro]

1 hour ago, Llywela said:

Graviton? You mean Talbot? He's dead. And back in the 80s he'd have been a junior army officer who had nothing to do with SHIELD.

Oops, I actually forgot that they paid that off.  Never mind.

[Raja]

28 minutes ago, blackwing said:

I'm kind of disappointed that we didn't find out what happened to Deke (he was Director in the 80s and then Mack is current day director, so is he dead?  Retired?  They could have shown a portrait of Old Deke on the wall at SHIELD.  And when Coulson was saying there are places he wants to go to, I really really thought that he was going to be shown in Tahiti.  For real this time.

Deke stayed in another timeline while everybody else went quantum to what was supposed to be the original timeline back before Enoch grabbed the team at the end of season 4. So we, and Mack has Peggy Carter and that bunch from the beginning of Ant-Man as our S.H.I.E.L.D.  historical 80s leadership and the Triskellion was just being built.

Meanwhile Deke had an 80s S.H.I.E.L.D. to rebuild a smashed S.H.I.E.L.D in his new timeline much  like Coulson did seasons 2-6 with some tech pushed forward and available earlier in time. Especially with future man, Deke stealing the ideals of inventors and artist with his future knowledge. Project Insight had already been tried by Hydra, even if they didn't come out of the shadows and he had some surviving agents after an extraterrestrial attack decades before Thor went public and the the Battle of New York and the MCU world knew about "aliens, aliens" as General Talbot said.

[KittenPokerCheater]

18 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Piper used her favor from Simmons to make a LMD version of Davis!!  Again, aww!!

Hands down, that scene in the car with Piper/Davis/Yo-Yo was my favorite scene of the night.

I'm not happy with how they handled Deke (honestly, I wonder if a show-runner or someone didn't like the actor/character because of how they made him the butt of all the jokes for the last couple seasons).

Parts of this season were brilliant, but on the whole, I'd give it a B/B-.

And yes, the "once a year" meeting seems odd.  If it's like zoom, then they could do it once a month or something.  But writers have to be writers.  It does seem like MCU doesn't know how to execute their endings well.

[MissLucas]

I always love it when a show decides to not go all grimdark in the final episode and souring the whole thing - so, well done!

I do have a timey-whimey problem that I just can't resolve. Back in the first episode Jemma arrives at the temple with four folks in blue hazmat suits to save the day. By now we know those were Fitz, Jemma, Yo Yo and Sousa. In this episode^s flashback prior to the rescue Enoch says 'Good, they sent 'reinforcements' when these four arrived at the Zephyr. Who did he mean by 'they'? Neither he nor Jemma could know at that moment that they were in a time loop so where did they think that blue team came from? 

Edited August 13, 2020 by MissLucas

[Jack Shaftoe]

I knew the protagonists would find a way to return to their own timeline. The finale wasn't too bad but it took basically zero risks. The Chronicoms being beaten by the literal power of empathy was pretty cringe-worthy but then again everything about them has been cringe-worthy for years now. Kora saving the day was kind of silly and predictable too. Not quite as predictable as the FitzSimmons kid, though, those were some "subtle" hints indeed.

I am not happy with the implication May needed said power of empathy in order to become a better person. Before she got that power, she was reserved and taciturn, not a robot without feelings, you know.

I know I probably shouldn't ask but if you can only get back to your timeline with that quantum machine or whatever, what exactly was the Chronicoms' rationale for time-traveling in the first place?

All in all, despite all my grumblings, it's downright miraculous that all the main characters stayed mostly true to themselves to the very end. Almost inevitably, a significant portion of the main cast would be character assassinated or at least flanderized by season six at the very latest. I just wish the writers didn't love time travel so much.

[Raja]

A once a year reunion meeting sounds right to me. That doesn't mean you don't call surrogate dad and recruit him out of sabbatical or type a letter to your sister in law in the meantime. It is about everyone getting together while Daisy is out as an Astro Ambassador, Yo-Yo is running missions and Mack is running S.H.I.E.L.D. whose schedules   would be much more uncertain than that of an academy instructor 

That 3 were in the middle of a mission suggested that someone noticed it had been a year since we all got together as a group and set up a meeting. And then Yo-Yo had to insert on her scouting mission after a few minutes.

11 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

I always love it when a show decides to not go all grimdark in the final episode and souring the whole thing - so, well done!

I do have a timey-whimey problem that I just can't resolve. Back in the first episode Jemma arrives at the temple with four folks in blue hazmat suits to save the day. By now we know those were Fitz, Jemma, Yo Yo and Sousa. In this episode^s flashback prior to the rescue Enoch says 'Good, they sent 'reinforcements' when these four arrived at the Zephyr. Who did he mean by 'they'? Neither he nor Jemma could know at that moment that they were in a time loop so where did they think that blue team came from? 

Enoch had a copy of the  timestream, which was passed off to Fitz and was as much of a predictor  as Sibyl. He just didn't tell us. And only hinted at when he gave his we win but this is it for the team together dying speech. And then Fitz came on to echo Dr Strange about the only way without giving the odds

7 minutes ago, Jack Shaftoe said:

I know I probably shouldn't ask but if you can only get back to your timeline with that quantum machine or whatever, what exactly was the Chronicoms' rationale for time-traveling in the first place?

All in all, despite all my grumblings, it's downright miraculous that all the main characters stayed mostly true to themselves to the very end. Almost inevitably, a significant portion of the main cast would be character assassinated or at least flanderized by season six at the very latest. I just wish the writers didn't love time travel so much.

From the coup in season 6  forward they wanted revenge on S.H.I.E.L.D. maybe for causing the rift that brought Izel and the shrike to destroy their world. And then the earth instead of going back without war. They were not computers but were emotional dealing with traitors and wanting to hurt, not just win victory over their enemies, 

Edited August 13, 2020 by Raja

[rmontro]

I have a question:  At the end, Coulson opened up the briefcase and it had two things in it - the keys to the car and something else.  What was the something else?  

I erased my copy from my DVR, so I can't go back and check.

[Cerulean]

I don’t understand how Kora all of a sudden had “heal the dead powers”. If she knew about them, why didn’t she heal Jiayang?

Also, it seems like Daisy should have been A LOT more beat up with a serious case of frost bite. 
 

Still, I liked it. And I have to wonder if anyone will show up in the next sequence of movies/television. (I would NOT have predicted Sousa, but it worked!)

[Mellowyellow]

I am so so so glad they gave Daisy a happy, well adjusted ending with the handsome, upstanding Sousa who makes her smile. Didn't really care about Kora but she served to seal Daisy's happily ever after so I'm on board.

Squeeeeeto the kiss. I really like that we got this romance and because it came in at the very last season they couldn't torture them. Just lots of cuteness!

Fitzsimmons baby was adorable!!!!!! I teared up in her scene with Jemma. There is also something satisfying about knowing that she's going to have a nice life and the Deke in this timeline hopefully won't have a rough life either.

Speaking of Deke I really wish we got a final scene with him on the alternate timeline but I think they did wrap his story up nicely. Throughout the seasons they've made a point of showing how adaptable he is, how he always succeeds no matter where he ends up. The last scene with him realising he was the new leader of alternate SHIELD was gold. I've no doubt he's highly successful and living it up in his separate timeline. 

[Raja]

29 minutes ago, Cerulean said:

I don’t understand how Kora all of a sudden had “heal the dead powers”. If she knew about them, why didn’t she heal Jiayang?

Also, it seems like Daisy should have been A LOT more beat up with a serious case of frost bite. 
 

Still, I liked it. And I have to wonder if anyone will show up in the next sequence of movies/television. (I would NOT have predicted Sousa, but it worked!)

Kora did try out her power on a long dead Jaiying. In any case bringing back someone after a short term exposure to vacuum of space was done for Gamora, but she was an alien like Thor survived his. Maybe Lost In Space and The Expanse did it with its a bit harder science than MCU science focus in recent years. it played more like a defibrillation and heat for someone who only flat lined for a moment but still would be worked on for a while before a real doctor would pronounce death.

I doubt we see anyone from AoS again. With COVID pushing everything back a year if a now unlocked NetFlix MCU favorite actor shows up  on Spider-Man or a straight Disney+ MCU show I might reassess. 

[Raja]

2 hours ago, rmontro said:

I have a question:  At the end, Coulson opened up the briefcase and it had two things in it - the keys to the car and something else.  What was the something else?  

I erased my copy from my DVR, so I can't go back and check.

It looked like a Coulson S.H.I.E.L.D. version of the Captain Marvel pager Nick Fury had in Infinity War

[Kel Varnsen]

I thought it was a pretty solid finale. This season as a whole kind of made up for the crappyness of last season (and kind of the one before too). I just wish that they had a better villian than Nathaniel who just sucked.

I was a little confused why they couldn't just leave the Chronicoms in the Quantum realm though. Or just shrink them down.

Also Coulson saying he could just shut off whenever he wanted reminded me of the ending of The Good Place.

I did kind of love Mack's line about how working on the helicarrier is a big change from dark hallways. 

[MisterGlass]

This was pretty good.  It managed to have too much Nathaniel despite how little it actually featured him.  I also felt like it was a bit cautious about how it ended everything, but I'm not mad at it. 

Though, I was much more touched by the planned Season 5 finale.  It managed the bitter and the sweet quite well.

There were some bits that jarred me as this went along.  I kept thinking, ah, so this is where the season budget went.  And there were several echoes of Fringe as mentioned upthread, like the mystery machine.

I was hoping for one more Koenig sighting.  And there should have been one finale stinger of Deke headlining in the other timeline.  It was good to see Victoria Hand, Piper, Enoch, Fitz at last, and LMDavis, whose cameo was oddly touching for me.  Lola's re-emergence was a fitting moment.

If somebody makes a pilot of Agents of SWORD with Daisy and Danny boy I'll watch it.

[rmontro]

24 minutes ago, MisterGlass said:

If somebody makes a pilot of Agents of SWORD with Daisy and Danny boy I'll watch it.

I heard that Disney Plus is making an Agents of SWORD series, and that all the SHIELD actors will have small guest appearances throughout the season, but that none are going to be playing major roles.  I don't know how reliable that information is however, it was from one of those YouTube rumor videos.

[Gothish520]

All I can say is ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️

and that I agree with @Llywela, who's up for a rewatch? 😃

[memememe76]

I am not a Marvel fan and I can never remember actual plots from this show. But I just enjoy the chemistry and camaraderie of the cast. I have rematched the last ten minutes a gazillion times. 

[scrb]

I have to admit, I haven't always paid too close attention to the various plots in the series over the years.

So did I miss something that Fitz and Simmons had a child or was the finale the first and only time they revealed it?

Also the montage of Fitz, Simmons and Enoch connecting this plan to go back in the timeline to foil the Chronicoms with Fitz in hiding from the Crhonicoms, controlling the timelines.  This is the first time they've shown it right?

So hiding that is the reason they've kept Fitz out of the final season until the last episode or two?

 

4 hours ago, Cerulean said:

I don’t understand how Kora all of a sudden had “heal the dead powers”. If she knew about them, why didn’t she heal Jiayang?

Also, it seems like Daisy should have been A LOT more beat up with a serious case of frost bite. 
 

Still, I liked it. And I have to wonder if anyone will show up in the next sequence of movies/television. (I would NOT have predicted Sousa, but it worked!)

The Daisy rescue in space made me roll my eyes.

A big nuclear explosion closes up those 4 giant ships into millions of pieces yet here is Daisy completely intact.

Not only intact but among millions of pieces of debris, they're able to find her and then resuscitate her with magical inhuman powers.

[Raja]

7 minutes ago, scrb said:

I have to admit, I haven't always paid too close attention to the various plots in the series over the years.

So did I miss something that Fitz and Simmons had a child or was the finale the first and only time they revealed it?

Also the montage of Fitz, Simmons and Enoch connecting this plan to go back in the timeline to foil the Chronicoms with Fitz in hiding from the Crhonicoms, controlling the timelines.  This is the first time they've shown it right?

So hiding that is the reason they've kept Fitz out of the final season until the last episode or two?

 

Yes it is the first seen of her in this timeline. We had Deke acting worried although without the cracking of the earth it was all but impossible that his father would ever meet his mother since they weren't together as the last of humanity in the Lighthouse

Besides the scenes at the end of season 6 which they came back to this is the first we saw of the Fitzsimmons and Enoch plan.

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, scrb said:

So hiding that is the reason they've kept Fitz out of the final season until the last episode or two?

No. Fitz was out for most of the final season because Iain De Caestecker wasn’t available. 

[marykat71702]

As convoluted and weird as this show got at times, I'm going to miss it. There were a lot of humorous moments in these last two episodes, and I lol'd at the Lethal Weapon reference, but the group-meet at the end was kind of awkward...

[marykat71702]

Now I must watch Agent Carter because, you know, Sousa. Want to see more of him...

[Llywela]

10 hours ago, blueray said:

Some of it maybe because of Covid but I would have preferred a scene where they were physically together and not seem like they were all squeezing time in a busy schedule to see each other for a few minutes. Also "same time next year" well that's sad, so they really don't see each other. 

In this time of Covid, that whole sequence seemed completely believable and normal to me! It's hard to get a whole bunch of people together on a call even when they are all working on the same team still, never mind when they are all off doing different things. The 'same time next year' was about forward planning a full get-together like this again, it doesn't mean none of them are going to talk to each other in between - it is clear that they all do talk to each other regularly. It's a full group get-together that hadn't been done in a while. And knowing as I do how easy it is to let these things drift, it's wise of them to plan next year's date now - keep it in all their schedules, and maybe they won't all be so pressed for time next time!

7 hours ago, MissLucas said:

I always love it when a show decides to not go all grimdark in the final episode and souring the whole thing - so, well done!

I do have a timey-whimey problem that I just can't resolve. Back in the first episode Jemma arrives at the temple with four folks in blue hazmat suits to save the day. By now we know those were Fitz, Jemma, Yo Yo and Sousa. In this episode^s flashback prior to the rescue Enoch says 'Good, they sent 'reinforcements' when these four arrived at the Zephyr. Who did he mean by 'they'? Neither he nor Jemma could know at that moment that they were in a time loop so where did they think that blue team came from? 

The timey-wimeyness of it all was a bit brain-melting, but I think Enoch knew the reinforcements were sent by SHIELD via timey-wimey means?

7 hours ago, Jack Shaftoe said:

I knew the protagonists would find a way to return to their own timeline. The finale wasn't too bad but it took basically zero risks. The Chronicoms being beaten by the literal power of empathy was pretty cringe-worthy but then again everything about them has been cringe-worthy for years now. Kora saving the day was kind of silly and predictable too. Not quite as predictable as the FitzSimmons kid, though, those were some "subtle" hints indeed.

I am not happy with the implication May needed said power of empathy in order to become a better person. Before she got that power, she was reserved and taciturn, not a robot without feelings, you know.

I know I probably shouldn't ask but if you can only get back to your timeline with that quantum machine or whatever, what exactly was the Chronicoms' rationale for time-traveling in the first place?

The Chronicoms wanted to a) completely destroy SHIELD as revenge and b) conquer the Earth and claim it as their new home planet. They never had any intention of returning to the original timeline. They were going to conquer Earth in the new, altered timeline, and rule it from then onward. SHIELD prevented that by hauling them back through the quantum realm into the timeline where SHIELD remains intact and they haven't destroyed or conquered anything.

I don't think May said that the power of empathy made her a better person. She said it had made her a different person - gaining the power of empathy changed her life in much the same way that Daisy and Elena's powers changed their lives. May always had feelings, yes, but she had spent most of her life repressing them.  Feeling what everyone else was feeling all the time forced her to learn how to handle her own repressed emotions better, but also taught her that it is okay to express emotion a little more openly. That doesn't make her a better person, but it does represent a significant change.

If I understood it right, the power of empathy that May blasted into all the Chronicoms basically flipped the switch and turned them all from hunters to anthropologists.

6 hours ago, Cerulean said:

I don’t understand how Kora all of a sudden had “heal the dead powers”. If she knew about them, why didn’t she heal Jiayang?

Kora tried to heal Jiaying by transferring power into her but it didn't work - Jiaying's injuries were too severe and she had been dead for too long.

4 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

I was a little confused why they couldn't just leave the Chronicoms in the Quantum realm though. Or just shrink them down.

And risk having them escape and cause havoc all over again? Safer, in the long run, to de-fang them completely.

3 hours ago, rmontro said:

I heard that Disney Plus is making an Agents of SWORD series, and that all the SHIELD actors will have small guest appearances throughout the season, but that none are going to be playing major roles.  I don't know how reliable that information is however, it was from one of those YouTube rumor videos.

It is never wise to believe anything you hear in a Youtube rumour video. They are 99.9% made-up for clicks.

1 hour ago, scrb said:

So did I miss something that Fitz and Simmons had a child or was the finale the first and only time they revealed it?

Also the montage of Fitz, Simmons and Enoch connecting this plan to go back in the timeline to foil the Chronicoms with Fitz in hiding from the Crhonicoms, controlling the timelines.  This is the first time they've shown it right?

So hiding that is the reason they've kept Fitz out of the final season until the last episode or two?

We didn't know Fitzsimmons have a child, no. There have been hints dropped all season, I've suspected a secret child for weeks now, but this was the first time the theory was confirmed. And no, we haven't seen Fitz in hiding before, other than the flashbacks in ep 11, but Jemma did tell us earlier in the season that he was in hiding somewhere safe, controlling the Zephyr's jumps. The reason this aspect of the story was written was because Iain de Caestecker wasn't available to film most of the season, so they needed to keep Fitz off-screen for that reason.

Little Alya looked to be about 3-4 years old to me, so that would put the Fitzsimmons mini-break in space at around 4-5 years, during which they managed to invent and build not one but two time machines plus a memory-inhibiting device, at the same time as raising an infant with no child support other than Enoch. Impressive.

[swanpride]

But it can't be hurt to make a lot of noise that having Daisy in an Agents of Sword show is very much wanted.

[Llywela]

1 hour ago, swanpride said:

But it can't be hurt to make a lot of noise that having Daisy in an Agents of Sword show is very much wanted.

Isn't that how AOS came about in the first place? A lot of fans making a lot of noise about Coulson's death in Avengers? 😄

[swanpride]

Yep. So it worked once, why shouldn't it work a second time?

[Jack Shaftoe]

2 hours ago, Llywela said:

The Chronicoms wanted to a) completely destroy SHIELD as revenge and b) conquer the Earth and claim it as their new home planet. They never had any intention of returning to the original timeline.

Yet the protagonists acted like the Chronicoms had that exact intention and they should know how time travel works far better than I do. And in any event it's a super lame revenge to destroy SHIELD in another timeline, Coulson and company should have just shrugged and said "Good riddance", instead of bothering to follow them into the past.

3 hours ago, Llywela said:

I don't think May said that the power of empathy made her a better person.

She didn't say it but the implication was perfectly clear. In my opinion, she was perfectly fine before this silly empathy power so there was no reason to learn anything from the experience. She always has had plenty empathy, merely expressed in more subtle ways.

[chitowngirl]

Wouldn’t present timeline Enoch be around?

[swanpride]

Well, for the next five or so years he is still hanging around with Fitzsimmons, but after that, this version of Enoch will travel in the past to die there. And it wouldn't be wise to disrupt this…..

[Kel Varnsen]

I liked the idea of just giving the Chronicoms empathy instead of a huge battle. Although I wonder what happened to all those guys. Did they just stay on earth?

Also what was the point of Yo-yo getting her arm hurt on the rebar? They mentioned it but nothing really came from it.

I was surprised that Enoch and Fitz were using a time stream. I was totally expecting him to say that this was like the 5th iteration of the time travel loop that he had done or something.

[Raja]

14 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

I liked the idea of just giving the Chronicoms empathy instead of a huge battle. Although I wonder what happened to all those guys. Did they just stay on earth?

Also what was the point of Yo-yo getting her arm hurt on the rebar? They mentioned it but nothing really came from it.

 

I figure one Chronicom would be on Zephyr 3, many are reassigned and go back to their planets to study and some live in the intergalactic  village near new Asgard.

I was expecting Yo-Yo's injury was to slow her down at a crucial moment was left on the cutting room floor but it ended up just to signal that just she no longer snaps back doesn't make her practically invincible which the speedsters with no upper end on their powers would rightfully be.

[blackwing]

6 hours ago, Llywela said:

We didn't know Fitzsimmons have a child, no. There have been hints dropped all season, I've suspected a secret child for weeks now, but this was the first time the theory was confirmed. And no, we haven't seen Fitz in hiding before, other than the flashbacks in ep 11, but Jemma did tell us earlier in the season that he was in hiding somewhere safe, controlling the Zephyr's jumps. The reason this aspect of the story was written was because Iain de Caestecker wasn't available to film most of the season, so they needed to keep Fitz off-screen for that reason.

Little Alya looked to be about 3-4 years old to me, so that would put the Fitzsimmons mini-break in space at around 4-5 years, during which they managed to invent and build not one but two time machines plus a memory-inhibiting device, at the same time as raising an infant with no child support other than Enoch. Impressive.

I thought we didn't know that they had a child in the "original" timeline as yet, but we did know that Deke is the son of their daughter.  I'm pretty sure he had mentioned his mother before.

[VCRTracking]

I know it's a small thing but I'm glad they established in an earlier episode that Fitz was really blonde when he was a child! 

[Llywela]

33 minutes ago, Raja said:

I was expecting Yo-Yo's injury was to slow her down at a crucial moment was left on the cutting room floor but it ended up just to signal that just she no longer snaps back doesn't make her practically invincible which the speedsters with no upper end on their powers would rightfully be.

I have misjudged spaces and walked into objects I could clearly see were there far too many times to believe that someone with super-speed would be practically invincible and immune to such accidents. Give me super-speed and I would crash into stuff even more than I already do!

32 minutes ago, blackwing said:

I thought we didn't know that they had a child in the "original" timeline as yet, but we did know that Deke is the son of their daughter.  I'm pretty sure he had mentioned his mother before.

Oh yeah, I mean, we knew that they eventually had a daughter in Deke's original timeline, yes - and the show very carefully never told us her name. But in this timeline, this was the first we'd heard of this pregnancy and child, who may or may not be the same person that became Deke's mother in the other timeline, and who may or may not now go on to meet and marry the same guy with whom she produced Deke in that other timeline.

30 minutes ago, VCRTracking said:

I know it's a small thing but I'm glad they established in an earlier episode that Fitz was really blonde when he was a child! 

I've seen so many people (not here but elsewhere) expressing surprise at how blonde little Alya is, but honestly, even if we hadn't already seen this picture of Little Fitz, it is really common for tow-headed children like that to get darker as they grow up. My dad was white-blond as a toddler and grew up to have jet black hair! Back when he had hair at all, that is. 😄 Simmons's hair is mid-brown, while Fitz's is the kind of mousy shade that blond kids often develop through adolescence into adulthood, so Alya's blondness didn't seem at all out of place to me - she'll undoubtedly get darker as she grows up. 

Edited August 14, 2020 by Llywela

[Taeolas]

Deke staying behind fit in another way I don't think anyone else has noticed. Everyone else (save Soussa and Kora) is going home, going back to their original time line. But it's a timeline where Earth isn't going to be shaken apart. So for Deke, it's just another alternate timeline. Even if Deke is born there, it'll be a Deke born of parents who know of a future Deke, a Deke that survived the destruction of the Earth. So Deke being around on the original timeline would have been awkward for everyone.

But Deke staying in the 80's SHIELD-less Earth means he'll probably be dead or long gone by the time he is born, if he is born. He's already got roots in that universe, more than he has roots in 2020 AOS Earth, so he'll fit in better there. 

 

As for the actual finale, it was a very satisfying finale. It shows things go on, dangers still exist, wonders still exist, and our characters are still doing what they love. We won't be following this group directly any more; but they are still doing good work. 

As for Mac and Yo-Yo, their relationship might be toned down a bit given their jobs; but I get the feeling it is still there. He was really proud at how decorated she was for the missions she's running. I'd dare say in another 5 years, she'll probably let herself be promoted out of field work and their relationship can continue more openly; and likely within the decade, they'll basically be married and co-Directors of SHIELD (and a nightmare for HR). 

 

[VCRTracking]

4 hours ago, Jack Shaftoe said:

She didn't say it but the implication was perfectly clear. In my opinion, she was perfectly fine before this silly empathy power so there was no reason to learn anything from the experience. She always has had plenty empathy, merely expressed in more subtle ways.

Sure and it suited her as a badass agent and one on one trainer but she can't be a fighter doing flips forever.  If May is the same age as Ming Na Wen who is 56(!) she's less than a decade where her body forces her to retire anyway. Being a teacher requires more openness and a willingness to connect.

Edited August 14, 2020 by VCRTracking

[Llywela]

16 minutes ago, Taeolas said:

Deke staying behind fit in another way I don't think anyone else has noticed. Everyone else (save Soussa and Kora) is going home, going back to their original time line. But it's a timeline where Earth isn't going to be shaken apart. So for Deke, it's just another alternate timeline. Even if Deke is born there, it'll be a Deke born of parents who know of a future Deke, a Deke that survived the destruction of the Earth. So Deke being around on the original timeline would have been awkward for everyone.

But Deke staying in the 80's SHIELD-less Earth means he'll probably be dead or long gone by the time he is born, if he is born. He's already got roots in that universe, more than he has roots in 2020 AOS Earth, so he'll fit in better there. 

Well, in 2020 AOS timeline he was a super-rich tech CEO, which probably classes as roots 😄 but yeah, you are right, leaving him in an alternate timeline where he has already established himself and where he is unlikely to run into his own future self (or his mother as a child) does remove a lot of future potential awkwardness, a shame though it is for him to lose the close relationship he's established with Simmons, if not with Fitz.

I've got to admit, though, I am fascinated by the potential in the Deke-as-head-of-80s-SHIELD timeline! Gods, I would love to see how that one develops through to our own time! We have seen enough of Deke through 3 seasons now to be certain that he will absolutely thrive. He will rebuild SHIELD, no question of that, and, unhindered as he is by any concerns over contamination of a timeline that has already been ripped to shreds...well, after what we saw of the fake SHIELD he established earlier in the season, I would dearly love to see what that rebuilt Deke-style official SHIELD looks like! 😄 

16 minutes ago, Taeolas said:

As for the actual finale, it was a very satisfying finale. It shows things go on, dangers still exist, wonders still exist, and our characters are still doing what they love. We won't be following this group directly any more; but they are still doing good work. 

As for Mac and Yo-Yo, their relationship might be toned down a bit given their jobs; but I get the feeling it is still there. He was really proud at how decorated she was for the missions she's running. I'd dare say in another 5 years, she'll probably let herself be promoted out of field work and their relationship can continue more openly; and likely within the decade, they'll basically be married and co-Directors of SHIELD (and a nightmare for HR). 

I agree! The team had reached a point where they were all ready to move onto the next phase of their lives, and like Mack told Daisy last week, that's okay, that's normal and natural, it is how life works. People come together for a time, working toward a common goal, and then they move on. If they formed a strong enough bond they remain in contact, but it is normal for people to drift apart once they move onto different tracks, no matter how much they love one another.

Mack and Yoyo as married co-directors sounds fabulous to me. 😄 

9 minutes ago, VCRTracking said:

Sure and it suited her as a badass agent and one on one trainer but she can't be a fighter doing flips forever.  If May is the same age as Ming Na Wen who is 56(!) she's less than a decade where her body forces her to retire anyway. Being a teacher requires more openness and a willingness to connect.

I agree. I rewatched that scene and May did not say that there was anything wrong with who she was before. She simply said that now she's got used to this new ability and the impact it has had on her, she finds that she likes who she has become. No disdain for who she used to be, merely acceptance of and contentment with who she is now as she moves into a new phase of her life. And it is lovely to see that she has taken her new self in a direction that suits her 100% - she was always an excellent teacher and although she never had children of her own, due to her circumstances, she has always been maternal, look how many young agents she has effectively 'adopted' through the 7 seasons of the show! In the past, she nurtured the harder side of her personality because it was what she needed to do the job she was in and to survive the circumstances she was in. Now, she gets to allow the other aspects of her personality to flourish, and to use her new ability to nurture a whole new generation of promising kids.

Edited August 14, 2020 by Llywela

[Kel Varnsen]

3 hours ago, Taeolas said:

likely within the decade, they'll basically be married and co-Directors of SHIELD (and a nightmare for HR). 

I imagine at this point in the game SHIELD HR is just happy that the people working there aren't Hydra sleeper agents.

Edited August 14, 2020 by Kel Varnsen

[tennisgurl]

I do like to think that the team talk more than exchanging emails and having a quick slightly awkward Zoom meeting once a year. As Mack said, they do have these things called phones, they call call/text/Skype/message any time they want, with maybe the exception of Daisy out in space (what kind of cell reception do they get in other galaxy's?) or they can visit each other. They do all still work for SHIELD, except for Fitz and Simmons, who are retired, so it shouldn't be too hard to get together, especially with all of their super advanced jets and stuff making travel easy. They should at least see each other at the annual company picnic or the holiday party! 

They actually made me feel bad for Garrett for a second, of all people, considering he was actually working with the team, albeit for self serving reasons. I do enjoy that it was a younger Victoria Hand, who he killed in the original timeline, that took him out though. 

So because of the nature of time travel, does that mean that the bad Kree future still exists somewhere? I guess it must, because Deke and Flint are still around, I wonder how thats all going? Between this and Endgame, how many dang timelines have we created?!

[scrb]

I wouldn't have minded if they hooked up with past SHIELD agents in the finale, maybe a cameo here and there.  Didn't have to be a reunion, just maybe a couple of them having contact with them.

Maybe even a message exchanged with Grant or is he really really dead?

[Raja]

10 minutes ago, scrb said:

I wouldn't have minded if they hooked up with past SHIELD agents in the finale, maybe a cameo here and there.  Didn't have to be a reunion, just maybe a couple of them having contact with them.

Maybe even a message exchanged with Grant or is he really really dead?

Since they fooled me and stopped jumping forward in 1983 Grant Ward was a kid in the Deke Squad timeline and when the team jumped back to the battle against Sarge and Izel at the Temple Ward had long ago gone to Maveth become Hive and then have that body get nuked in orbit

[Llywela]

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

I do like to think that the team talk more than exchanging emails and having a quick slightly awkward Zoom meeting once a year. As Mack said, they do have these things called phones, they call call/text/Skype/message any time they want

So because of the nature of time travel, does that mean that the bad Kree future still exists somewhere? I guess it must, because Deke and Flint are still around, I wonder how thats all going? Between this and Endgame, how many dang timelines have we created?

I imagine the individual team members do talk to each other regularly, but a big group get together like the one we saw, even a virtual one... It is surprisingly easy to let that kind of thing slide for longer than anyone intended, even with the very best of intentions. I have no trouble believing that everyone was so busy doing other stuff that a year went by faster than they foresaw. Look how long they went in S6 without having the entire team all in a room together, and they hadn't officially split up then. 

And yes, the bad Kree future does still exist, we've always known that - the show took the trouble to show us Flint and Tess starting to rebuild after the team jumped back in time. Neither Deke nor Flint is evidence of it though. In the multiverse theory demonstrated by the show, people who have time travelled can continue to exist even in timeliness where they can never be born. And this Flint never time travelled, he was created out of raw firmament by the creation monolith using Mack and Elena's memories. 

[Kel Varnsen]

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

So because of the nature of time travel, does that mean that the bad Kree future still exists somewhere? I guess it must, because Deke and Flint are still around, I wonder how thats all going? Between this and Endgame, how many dang timelines have we created?!

They probably do. What I realized is more concerning is that in Deke's new timeline Thanos probably has an easier time assembling the infinity stones. Because if SHIELD as we know it is gone, there is no Fury to assemble the avengers and probably no Project Pegasus to create Captain Marvel. 

[foxfreakinmulder]

I agree with everything already said so I won't repeat.

I thought Sousa had a few lines that were the highlight of the episode. I lol when Sousa, Mack and Daisy were standing at the door waiting for a fight and Sousa said, "do you think they're on the other side doing the same thing?"

I still don't understand why the team broke up? I understand why Fitz/Simmons would want to retire and Deke stayed in the 80's but the others could still work as a team so why/who split them up?

I wished we could've had more Fitz in the last episode instead of Nathaniel.

I'm hearing a lot about this S.W.O.R.D. what is it?

Like a lot of people I was really hoping for more sighting from past favorites.

I want LOLA, flying machine or not, that's always been my favorite year of a corvette.

Going to miss this show a lot. I'm not into comics or the Marvel universe, I've enjoyed the movies and own a few but for me it was one of the most entertaining shows on air.

 

 

[Enigma X]

3 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Also what was the point of Yo-yo getting her arm hurt on the rebar? They mentioned it but nothing really came from it.

I was afraid that Yo-yo was going to die from an infection. So, I guess, for me, it created suspense.

[Taeolas]

36 minutes ago, foxfreakinmulder said:

I agree with everything already said so I won't repeat.

I thought Sousa had a few lines that were the highlight of the episode. I lol when Sousa, Mack and Daisy were standing at the door waiting for a fight and Sousa said, "do you think they're on the other side doing the same thing?"

I still don't understand why the team broke up? I understand why Fitz/Simmons would want to retire and Deke stayed in the 80's but the others could still work as a team so why/who split them up?

I wished we could've had more Fitz in the last episode instead of Nathaniel.

I'm hearing a lot about this S.W.O.R.D. what is it?

 

Sousa's line about the door was great. Especially since that's such a cliche'd scene set up in general.

They broke up because their main mission was done. Coulson and May are old (compared to the others); they have been in the field and in SHIELD a long time. It's not surprising that now that SHIELD is in good hands, they're willing/able to step back a bit.

Mack and YoYo are younger (comparatively) with a lot of active time left, so it's not surprising they are sticking around.

Daisy has a family (x2 with Kora and Soussa now) to watch out for, and they're still working for SHIELD in their own way. 

Fitz and Simmons have a family and have been through hell and back and more over the past few decades. With the immediate pressure off, it's not surprising they're taking some retirement time to raise their family. 

 

As for SWORD, it's basically SHIELD in space. SHIELD watches the ground, while SWORD watches the skies. When it is more set up, it basically acts as customs for aliens arriving on Earth; making sure the arriving aliens are friendly and not bringing in bad stuff, and warning earth if a bad one does show up. Way back in Season 2, there was a hint about SWORD (I think as one of the SHIELD sites), but it was never expanded on. That's probably the hint that the producers mention in some of the interviews, that Marvel TV nixed expanding on. 

On top of SHIELD and SWORD, there is also ARMOR which would be the branch that would come out of Alternate timeline adventures like this season was involved with. 

[swanpride]

Quote

I'm hearing a lot about this S.W.O.R.D. what is it?

SWORD is in the comics the space division for SHIELD. The movies have hinted to move in this direction, most notable in Spider-Man Far from home. There have been rumours flying around regarding a show based on SWORD (I think the latest was the inclusion of Blue Marvel). And honestly all Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. are pretty much overqualified.

Regarding the new timeline: Not sure if Thanos would have it easier or not. With all the knowledge Deke has, it could give earth an advantage.

[CatWarmer]

20 hours ago, blackwing said:

.They really pulled out all the stops in the finale.  The fight between Daisy and Nathaniel was amazing.  You could tell they spent the big bucks on sets and special effects.  

They did kick it up several notches, a nice change from mainly running around underground corridors.  My favorite part was the ship being brought onboard by tractor beams.  First I’m thinking, ok, Star Wars, are they going to hide under the floorboards.  Then I realized the ship was being docked by a series of relay tractor beams.  Just a little detail, but a cool one.

This show was my last regular broadcast tv watching - from now on, any series I watch are all streaming.  No more “must see tv”.  So extra sadness for me.

[Sandman]

21 hours ago, Raja said:

The scene was ripped from Firefly but the tech came from season 1 episode 2, 0-8-4.

I'm so glad somebody remembers the early seasons better than I apparently do; if there were an Easter Egg quiz I'd be flunking out of Coulson Academy.

I did really like that the solution was not firepower, but empathy. They turned all the Chronicoms into Enochs! (How often have I wished for an empathy bomb! Think of how many problems we could solve if we could just drop some emotional ordnance over a big city, and suddenly everyone understands what it's like to be on the business end of stupidity and selfishness.) Did the ex-Chronicoms get recruited into S.H.I.E.L.D. (or S.W.O.R.D.)?