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S07.E12: The End Is at Hand / S07.E13: What We’re Fighting For

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Did we ever get an explanation as to why Sarge was basically a clone of Coulson?  I remember he had Coulson's DNA and everything, and obviously was just Coulson after living a life in different circumstances, but I don't remember the explanation.

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Loved the season. Not much else I can add. It was a fitting Series Finale but...

...just got to say, the villains were on the lower tier for such an "epic" time spanning and jumping story. 

But everything else, certainly fitting. Loved it.

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2 hours ago, Orbert said:

Did we ever get an explanation as to why Sarge was basically a clone of Coulson?  I remember he had Coulson's DNA and everything, and obviously was just Coulson after living a life in different circumstances, but I don't remember the explanation.

It had something to do with the interaction of the monoliths exploding and causing a reality,  space and time rift with Izel's non corporal people snatching bodies

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One thing I really enjoyed about the finale and the final season overall was that the team did not treat moving on as though it was this tragic end to everything. That's how life is. You have phases and you move on. People grow, change jobs, get married, have children. But so often TV shows act like breaking up a team or changing jobs is the end of everything. And the way AoS ended was nice because everyone was fulfilled and happy, not just because they were agents with the team but in whatever they were doing afterward. 

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Honestly, I don't mind that the villains were more in the background...I rather wanted to focus on the big goodbye anyway. And it was kind of nice being able to have villains which can just blown away without any sad feelings for a change. I mean, Ward, Aida, Talbot, those are all villains I felt sorry for on some level.

Though I wonder if the original plan had been to use whitehall instead of Nathanial, but the actor wasn't available.

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9 hours ago, Orbert said:

Did we ever get an explanation as to why Sarge was basically a clone of Coulson?  I remember he had Coulson's DNA and everything, and obviously was just Coulson after living a life in different circumstances, but I don't remember the explanation.

Remember when all the monoliths stored under the lighthouse got blown up, causing that rift in space/time that caused so much trouble back in S5? And how Coulson was the one who went into the affected area to seal the rift? There were three monoliths - space, time, and creation. The energy within the rift caused by their destruction used Coulson as a pattern to create the Sarge-clone and flung him across space/time to Izel's dimension, where the energy being who came to be known as Sarge latched onto the body, made it his own, and used it to escape into our corporeal realm.

(I was less clear on where Izel got her body)

3 hours ago, Minneapple said:

One thing I really enjoyed about the finale and the final season overall was that the team did not treat moving on as though it was this tragic end to everything. That's how life is. You have phases and you move on. People grow, change jobs, get married, have children. But so often TV shows act like breaking up a team or changing jobs is the end of everything. And the way AoS ended was nice because everyone was fulfilled and happy, not just because they were agents with the team but in whatever they were doing afterward. 

Agreed, I really appreciated that, too. Also, the one person who was upset at the idea of the group going separate ways was Daisy, and the reason she took it so hard has been baked into her characterisation since the very beginning, so that her eventual acceptance of everyone moving onto the next phase of their lives was a demonstration of real growth on her part.

Edited by Llywela
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Wow, thanks for the explanations (Coulson/Sarge).  I guess the in-show explanation was so crazy that my brain couldn't absorb it and it just kinda blew past me.  I mean really, that's about as hand-wavey, technobabble as you can get.  But thanks.

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11 hours ago, Llywela said:

Agreed, I really appreciated that, too. Also, the one person who was upset at the idea of the group going separate ways was Daisy, and the reason she took it so hard has been baked into her characterisation since the very beginning, so that her eventual acceptance of everyone moving onto the next phase of their lives was a demonstration of real growth on her part.

Absolutely. This is a great observation about Daisy's initial reaction and eventual acceptance of the separation. I really liked the conversation between Daisy and Mack about this the episode (or two?) before this one. I felt like it was a great showcase for Mack's maturity and life experience. He was able to acknowledge that it's not easy to move on, but that it's part of growing older. She needed to hear that, and I love that she rolled with it. 

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Anyone else wonder why no one asked the Chronocrons why they don't go back in time to just stop Izel instead of trying to take over earth and still have to deal with Izel when she eventually comes?

 

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1 hour ago, HawaiiTVGuy said:

Anyone else wonder why no one asked the Chronocrons why they don't go back in time to just stop Izel instead of trying to take over earth and still have to deal with Izel when she eventually comes?

That was their original plan. It was why they captured Fitz and Simmons in the first place, to unlock the secret of time travel in order to go back in time and save their homeworld. Unfortunately, the Chronicoms assigned as hunters don't appear to possess any logic or common sense whatsoever, and having been thwarted once or twice by SHIELD they decided that revenge should be their top priority instead and killed off any leadership still advocating the original plan. All future plans were then designed with 'revenge against SHIELD' uppermost in mind, rather than 'what is actually best for Chronicom-kind as a whole', because as hunters they all lacked the capacity to see beyond the narrowness of their chosen objective. So I rationalise the 'giving them empathy' victory as flipping all of their assignments to anthropologist instead, because those assigned as anthropologists seemed to possess at least basic common sense.

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Not gonna look in the whole thread until I've watched part 2, but just had to say "peachy" Sousa is so earnest I wanna give him a hug.

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So, is it deliberate that Sousa has a romantic relationship with two women who have (very different sounding) nicknames for the name Margaret? If that's the only explanation for having to call Skye 'Daisy' for several seasons even though the name doesn't fit her at all, I guess I'm okay with that. LOL.

I knew knew KNEW Fitz was still alive and Jemma was eventually going to remember that she had a child before she had to leave, but for one terrible moment when Jemma implied that turning the Chroms into good guys and saving Daisy was their goal, I thought the show was going to let me down the way The 100 did and have the finale be one big disappointment. So glad they didn't do me wrong, heh.

Aside from FitzSimmons getting a happy ending, the only seasons/storylines I ever felt truly invested in were the ones with Ghost Rider and Ada, but I felt like this season was a nice wrap up for the show. The almost hero worship of Coulson in the past had really begun to annoy me, so it was nice to have that taking a back burner this season.

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8 minutes ago, Taryn74 said:

So, is it deliberate that Sousa has a romantic relationship with two women who have (very different sounding) nicknames for the name Margaret? If that's the only explanation for having to call Skye 'Daisy' for several seasons even though the name doesn't fit her at all, I guess I'm okay with that. LOL.

 

Daisy is a legacy S.H.I.E.L.D character from the comic books. "Skye" was the misdirect that was used to keep her coming Inhuman turn from being spoiled 

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7 hours ago, Taryn74 said:

So, is it deliberate that Sousa has a romantic relationship with two women who have (very different sounding) nicknames for the name Margaret? If that's the only explanation for having to call Skye 'Daisy' for several seasons even though the name doesn't fit her at all, I guess I'm okay with that. LOL.

No, it was pure coincidence that the storytelling ultimately put Sousa with both women at different stages of his life - that particular ending certainly wasn't planned back at the start of the show, when the character Sousa didn't exist because Agent Carter hadn't happened yet. His crossover onto AoS came about as a result of several different contributing factors, all of which only came into existence shortly before the season was written and produced - in particular Endgame torpedoing the happy ending he and Peggy had been given, so that the character was suddenly left on the shelf. Also, it couldn't have been known way back in S1 that Daisy would still be single going into S7, so that if the writers wanted to give her a happy ending, the very short timeframe of that reduced season would mean that using an already established character instead of having to invent one from scratch was desirable, etc.

Peggy Carter and Daisy Johnson are both characters drawn straight from the comics - as Raja says, the name 'Skye' was only ever a temporary pseudonym used as a misdirect until her true identity was revealed. I think the name Daisy suits her perfectly well. I find it weird now to go back to the early seasons and have everyone calling her Skye!

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3 minutes ago, Orbert said:

Is "Daisy" a common nickname for "Margaret"?  I don't think I've ever heard that before.

I wouldn't say common, not these days at least, but it is a diminutive of Margaret, yes. Because the French version of Margaret is Marguerite, which is also another name for a type of daisy (seriously, that's the link). And because once upon a time there were far fewer commonly used given names than there are today, and people liked to name their children after relatives, so that you might end up with half a dozen Margarets all in the same family, in which case it was handy if there were also half a dozen different diminutives by which to distinguish them all! Which, incidentally, also plays a part in how you get from Margaret to Maggie to Meg to Peggy. 😉 

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Or from Robert to Bobby. Or from Richard to Dick. Names also change from language to language which is how you move from the German "Hans" to the French "Jean" to the English "John".

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8 hours ago, swanpride said:

Or from Robert to Bobby. Or from Richard to Dick. Names also change from language to language which is how you move from the German "Hans" to the French "Jean" to the English "John".

My oldest brother's name is Robert, we called him Robbie his entire life. His first wife insisted on calling him Bob or Bobby and it was like nails on a chalkboard to me LOL. It would literally take me a minute every time to figure out who in the heck she was talking about because the only Bobby I knew was a guy who lived down the street.

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I have seen all the Marvel movies, but I never watched this series.  The pandemic has had me digging around a lot to find TV series to watch that are new to me 😃

I've spent the last three months watching all of it and really enjoyed being able to read everyone's posts - episode by episode - especially to get some clarification at times.

Sure, there was good and bad, but overall, it was a really great show.  Now I have to find something else to watch...

Edited by aemom · Reason: Typo
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Have you already seen Agent Carter? And maybe Cloak and Dagger (the latter isn't really all that connected anymore, but I really enjoyed it). 

I mean I assume that you are up to date with all the other Marvel shows. 

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16 hours ago, swanpride said:

Have you already seen Agent Carter? And maybe Cloak and Dagger (the latter isn't really all that connected anymore, but I really enjoyed it). 

I mean I assume that you are up to date with all the other Marvel shows. 

I've been looking for Agent Carter but it hasn't been available on any of my existing channels or the library. I keep checking. 

I will look into Cloak and Dagger, thanks!

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35 minutes ago, aemom said:

I've been looking for Agent Carter but it hasn't been available on any of my existing channels or the library. I keep checking. 

I will look into Cloak and Dagger, thanks!

Unlike Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. post Lighthouse pod stories I don't think there is anything the canon freaks could point to in Cloak and Dagger which contradicts anything in the MCU Infinity Saga. At least until the duo made an appearance on Hulu's Runaways.

Since The Mouse got Agent Carter I think that in the foreseeable future  you are left to Disney + or buying it a la carte. 

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It's on Disney + in my country. I guess one can expect that other than the Netflix shows and the things Sony produced, all Marvel shows will eventually turn up there.

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On 5/14/2021 at 8:20 AM, Raja said:

 

Since The Mouse got Agent Carter 

Awk! I didn’t know. Makes sense though. 

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So I decided to cough up for Disney+ as a family Christmas present, and hubby and I have started watching Agent Carter.  Only a few episodes in so far, but really enjoying it.

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41 minutes ago, aemom said:

So I decided to cough up for Disney+ as a family Christmas present, and hubby and I have started watching Agent Carter.  Only a few episodes in so far, but really enjoying it.

Agent Carter has its own thread - here. It was a fantastic show while it lasted - and so was Agents of SHIELD, which is the show this forum is for. I loved them both! Hope you continue to enjoy Agent Carter.

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