S02.E10: The End of Something

[MisterGlass]

Kids can do things that they know are against the rules without fully understanding the consequences.  Especially if a parent's response to misbehavior is just to send in another Nanny.  There's usually a minimum age when someone can be considered legally responsible.

9 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

Ghost age because actors age.   You have to accept it the same way you have to accept immortals age like Jack Harkness.  The show may explain it in cannon as “one of those things” but you just gotta kind of let it go.

Yeah, much as I like dissecting all the bits and pieces, this is one of a few shows lately that have made me fall back on the MST3K theme song - "repeat to yourself it's just a show, I should really just relax."

[memememe76]

I don’t think Vanya needs a redemption arc, she hasn’t even done the most damage. I mean, how many people has Five killed? Or Ben with those bank robbers? 
 

The show is fun and easy to binge. The second season was more fun but like the first season, I did other things while watching. The show has this frustrating way of separating the characters from each other due to angst and whatever, and then they band together. It gets old. I already envision this happening next season—the World is theoretically saved, there is another group trained superheros, so let me go and find my daughter, find more drugs, etc. And then they will come back the second half of the third season. 

[shrewd.buddha]

The Umbrella Academy are on the FBI's most wanted list and their names and faces have been broadcast on national television. But they think they can go to 2019 and nothing will be different? They also changed their family history by confronting their Dad in 1963. 

The Hargreeves children might not be 'exactly' biological siblings - but there is a chance they have DNA from the same father (alien being). Their upbringing was more like an orphanage than a family.  I suppose their childhood was better than many foster kids and orphans - but Reginald Hargreeves was certainly a cold-blooded dick-tater.
(Knowing that he was an alien and raised them as an experiment makes it more understandable.) 

It makes sense that Lila could be a sibling that wasn't collected by Hargreeves. What doesn't make sense was the hand-to-hand girl fight between Lila and Allison right after Lila had thrown a 400-pound Luther through the wall of a house.  What was the point of that? Also: Allison never attempted to use her powers to help with anything that happened at the farm. Why? 

The Umbrella Academy was supposed to be a well trained team of superheroes at some point in their lives. There was no evidence of that when they were all together at the farm-pocalypse.  Klaus did not seem to contribute anything to the fight. 

Kate Walsh was a fun villain as the Handler .. but it's time for her to go bye-bye. Although with this show, I wouldn't be surprised if she popped up in season 3 and said "I'm the only one who can fix your timeline problems." 

..But despite all that, it was a fun way to spend time during our national quarantine lock-down.

Edited August 12, 2020 by shrewd.buddha

[supposebly]

38 minutes ago, shrewd.buddha said:

The Umbrella Academy was supposed to be a well trained team of superheroes at some point in their lives.

I think the key words are "trained" and "team". If you stop training, you get rusty. Also, they were a team when they were kids, and they really aren't much of a team anymore, nor are they kids. So, now they just sort of react to what's happening around them and try not to get killed. More or less individually. And I don't know what Klaus was contributing when they were doing "superhero stuff". Unless he can compel the dead to fight.

[shrewd.buddha]

10 minutes ago, supposebly said:

So, now they just sort of react to what's happening around them and try not to get killed. More or less individually.

They were a bad-ass fighting team during the first five minutes of episode 1 of this season. They were wearing the same outfits they were wearing at the farm (for some  weird reason).  Allison and Klaus were contributing - and they were fighting as a team. 

Edited August 12, 2020 by shrewd.buddha

[Chaos Theory]

They were a good team until Ben died but then fell apart pretty quick.  Which goes to show how bad a team leader Luther actually was.   Yes a death could destabilize the best of teams and families but it can also make it stronger.   Ben’s death just broke everyone.  And once they were broken no one bothered to even try to put them back together again until dad died as well.

Edited August 12, 2020 by Chaos Theory

[blueray]

1 hour ago, shrewd.buddha said:

It makes sense that Lila could be a sibling that wasn't collected by Hargreeves. What doesn't make sense was the hand-to-hand girl fight between Lila and Allison right after Lila had thrown a 400-pound Luther through the wall of a house.  What was the point of that? Also: Allison never attempted to use her powers to help with anything that happened at the farm. Why? 

I think Alison tried to use her power but that is when Lila started fighting with her and beat her to it. And since she could copy it, it caused Alison to almost choke. 

[memememe76]

Lila was copying Luther's power, which allowed her to punch him through the wall. Lila didn't have that same strength when fighting Allison. I was confused that Lila didn't copy Five in their first fight a few episodes ago. 

[Sakura12]

37 minutes ago, memememe76 said:

Lila was copying Luther's power, which allowed her to punch him through the wall. Lila didn't have that same strength when fighting Allison. I was confused that Lila didn't copy Five in their first fight a few episodes ago. 

I think she was copying his power, she was jumping around and Five was a little confused how she could move that fast.  They just hid it so we wouldn't figure out she had a power yet. 

[hoopznyo]

1 hour ago, memememe76 said:

Lila was copying Luther's power, which allowed her to punch him through the wall. Lila didn't have that same strength when fighting Allison. I was confused that Lila didn't copy Five in their first fight a few episodes ago. 

My canon is that Lila can only copy the person she is engaged with, so if they would have teamed up on her I think the fight would have ended much sooner.

[moonorchid]

17 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

I never thought Vanya was a sociopath.  She was a child who had powers she couldn’t control.  If we are judging people on what they did as children; I for one should be in prison all of which happened before I was 12.     Also Vanya’s father instilled a campaign of neglect against Vanya that her brothers and sister emulated though adulthood.   So yes I can see them at least acknowledging their part in it.   I am not saying Vanya is some innocent bystander but her season one story was so interesting to me because I could see how an angry neglected child could act out the way she did and season 2 how it could have all been different for her if someone had just given her a hug. That is what her story essentially was.  Remove all her baggage and it shows that no Vanya has no need to kill anyone.  As a matter of fact the exact opposite is true.   She will use her powers to protect anyone she loves.  That itself proves she isn’t a sociopath.

if her family made her beg for forgiveness that would just reinforce all wounds.  I did like the scene between her and Diego though.  He acknowledged that the last time he saw her she was blowing up the world and he might need a minute.   She apologized even though she didn’t remember.  He accepted.  Anything more would seem petty. 

 

I loved that scene. Diego was still resentful of vanya and her part in why they were there in the first place, but then vanya apologized, and what is an apology but an admission of wrong doing, and even though she couldn’t remember doing it she felt the need to apologize for her actions, and I just loved the breath he let out and just accepted it.

It really said a lot to me about Diego. He’s not one to hold grudges for the sake of holding a grudge and you could tell he’s rarely been apologized to. The scene showed how much an apology goes for him and he immediately started backing her up when she needed it. 

17 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

 

[Morrigan2575]

I know they aren't the X-Men bit, it helps me put their powers in perspective by comparing them to X Characters since I read those books for years.

With Lila I'm bouncing between Synch and Mimic.

 

[Chaos Theory]

4 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I know they aren't the X-Men bit, it helps me put their powers in perspective by comparing them to X Characters since I read those books for years.

With Lila I'm bouncing between Synch and Mimic.

 

It’s also a decent comparison because the school Xavier started had multiple teachers and took on students with powers they had been previously unable to control and many had in fact killed people.   That didn’t make them automatically villains or someone who had to spend their entire lives begging for forgiveness.   It also didn’t force any of the students into being heroes.   Becoming an X-Man was just another option as was becoming a teacher at the school or an accountant if that was what they wanted.  
 

None of that was true at UA.  From day one Reginald put them all into boxes that none of them were able to ever really get out of.  Luther was Number One The Leader even though he had no business being either.  He was too emotional to lead and didn’t really have the mind for it. And Vanya was cast out as dangerous real early.   I mean real early.   She was a child acting out.   What child doesn’t?  Hell all the kids acted out in one way or the other but for some reason Vanya’s powers scared Reginald so much that he decided a child was a threat.  That is on him.

What  makes the finale interesting is that the Hargreaves are a unit again.  They have put all their differences mostly aside the way families do only to jump back to a president timeline that may have had Reginald make different choices.   Maybe even the world make different ones.   Who knows all the thousand ways they might have tweaked the future.

Season 3 is gonna be fun,

Bad news is we are gonna have a long wait.

Edited August 13, 2020 by Chaos Theory

[Paloma]

1 hour ago, Chaos Theory said:

And Vanya was cast out as dangerous real early.   I mean real early.   She was a child acting out.   What child doesn’t?

A couple of posters have called Vanya a sociopath or psychopath because she killed the nannies and did not show remorse (sorry, I can't find the comments to quote). But wasn't she around 4 or 5 at the time? Children at that age are often self-centered and prone to fits of anger and even tantrums (including physically hurting others or destroying objects) when they don't get what they want. If they have good parenting, they develop a conscience, learn to care about others, and behave less selfishly over time. But Vanya's emotional development was seriously damaged by her father's abuse and the way she was treated by her siblings. So it is no wonder that when, as an adult, she fully realized what was done to her, she would react with rage. The difference between her reaction and that of a "normal" person is that she has destructive powers of a world-destroying magnitude.  

[dargosmydaddy]

That ended better than I thought it would. I'm glad the siblings finally worked together. Loved everyone piling into the car, and Vanya and Klaus getting their moment to talk about Ben first. Loved Vanya and Diego sitting together at the end. Loved how Diego seemed genuinely pleased for "Herbie" getting to be acting commissioner-- that was adorable, as was their complicated handshake. Luther with his big arms sheltering both Allison and Klaus during the hail of bullets was also adorable.

[shrewd.buddha]

14 hours ago, Paloma said:

A couple of posters have called Vanya a sociopath or psychopath because she killed the nannies and did not show remorse (sorry, I can't find the comments to quote). But wasn't she around 4 or 5 at the time?

While I realize that Vanya is basically a comic book character and acts like one, it did seem odd to me that she just casually killed around a thousand Time Commission agents in the blink of an eye and didn't seem to think twice about it. Sure, the agents got what was coming to them - but could Vanya have stopped them without killing them? Did she care?
And not all of the dead people in the federal building were guilty of drugging and torturing Vanya. 
I think it would have helped if the writers had given Vanya a moment of  "whoa, what did I just do?" after killing so many people. 

Edited August 13, 2020 by shrewd.buddha

[dargosmydaddy]

On 8/5/2020 at 11:57 PM, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I wonder what Ben was doing while presumably with Klaus in Vietnam.

 

On 8/6/2020 at 9:43 AM, Paloma said:

I wonder about that also. I don't remember seeing Ben in any of the Vietnam scenes. I guess there wasn't any reason to show him in those scenes, since their purpose was to show the development of the relationship between Klaus and Dave and then Dave's death. But considering that Ben is always with Klaus and how complicated their relationship is, it would have been nice to see at least a brief scene showing Ben's presence and reaction to what happened in Vietnam.

I always thought the opposite, that Ben wasn't with him in Vietnam. Ben didn't appear to be with him on the bus when Klaus opened the suitcase and got zapped to Vietnam, and are his powers strong enough that he could summon a ghost across the space-time continuum once he time traveled? A ghost of a person who hadn't even been born yet, let alone died, in 1968? And if he could do that, why didn't he try to do that this season? (He could have summoned ghost Dave for his own pleasure and/ or to ask for advice in approaching younger Dave, or summon ghost Dad to ask what's going on...) Also, when they traveled to this timeline in the season one finale, Klaus and Ben were very specifically touching so that Ben might travel, too-- if Klaus already knew that he could summon Ben whenever he wanted, no matter the timeline, surely this wouldn't have been necessary?

Of course, this show isn't always the best at explaining things, or continuity, so who knows. Confirmation one way or another would be nice.

I did dislike that Klaus was such a nonentity all season... though it made me laugh that the only time he summoned a non-Ben ghost (other than the ghost army in the first episode in the timeline that didn't end up happening) was to get the two ghosts (two of the newly dead Commission agents?) to catch him when Lila's force field blew them all away.

 

[CailynA]

17 hours ago, Paloma said:

A couple of posters have called Vanya a sociopath or psychopath because she killed the nannies and did not show remorse (sorry, I can't find the comments to quote). But wasn't she around 4 or 5 at the time? Children at that age are often self-centered and prone to fits of anger and even tantrums (including physically hurting others or destroying objects) when they don't get what they want. If they have good parenting, they develop a conscience, learn to care about others, and behave less selfishly over time. But Vanya's emotional development was seriously damaged by her father's abuse and the way she was treated by her siblings. So it is no wonder that when, as an adult, she fully realized what was done to her, she would react with rage. The difference between her reaction and that of a "normal" person is that she has destructive powers of a world-destroying magnitude.  

Add in the fact that with the way Reggie raised them I don't think they were allowed to show emotions, I mean the time Vanya got mad at him during her training and destroyed all the glasses and his monocle she was admonished. They weren't allowed to talk while eating, they were allowed "fun" for a half hour in an entire week. 

2 hours ago, shrewd.buddha said:

While I realize that Vanya is basically a comic book character and acts like one, it did seem odd to me that she just casually killed around a thousand Time Commission agents in the blink of an eye and didn't seem to think twice about it. Sure, the agents got what was coming to them - but could Vanya have stopped them without killing them? Did she care?
And not all of the dead people in the federal building were guilty of drugging and torturing Vanya. 
I think it would have helped if the writers had given Vanya a moment of  "whoa, what did I just do?" after killing so many people. 

I thought we got some of that for the FBI agents at least when Ben was with her in her mind and she was crying "why can't I stop?" she was bothered by it. She has also had her emotions medicinally repressed almost her entire life and before that wasn't taught how to deal with them, maybe due to Reggie's alien nature or maybe just bc he's an ass. I do wonder if she could have just stopped the agents, but seeing how her power is mostly being used instinctually without much training maybe not

[iMonrey]

Quote

A couple of posters have called Vanya a sociopath or psychopath because she killed the nannies and did not show remorse (sorry, I can't find the comments to quote). But wasn't she around 4 or 5 at the time? 

She was old enough to understand she had just killed someone and showed no reaction to it whatsoever. That's not normal, period. 

I think the problem here is that specific scene was mostly played for laughs. We get a montage of disposable nannies and then finally the Robot Mom who simply gets back up, twists her head back in the correct position and tries again. So if we're meant to find the disposable nannies a laughing matter, then Vanya's lack of reaction is a joke too.

That said, I can't imagine a similar situation with - say, Allison, Klaus, Ben or Luther - at that age where they would simply sit there after killing someone without expressing some kind of grief. So I do think we're meant to see Vanya as someone who's maybe not all there, mentally. Or at least someone who could be sort of ruthless like Five or Diego.

[Paloma]

1 hour ago, CailynA said:

She has also had her emotions medicinally repressed almost her entire life and before that wasn't taught how to deal with them, maybe due to Reggie's alien nature or maybe just bc he's an ass.

Or both--who says that aliens can't also be asses? 

[formerlyfreedom]

My take on Vanya, beyond being a comic book character (and frankly, I do give that a huge amount of leeway - logic and sense have little place in most of the tv shows I watch, after all!), is that when she was young and killing nannies, it was an impulse and she didn't really comprehend that she was 'killing' them. I do believe it's been researched that very young killers don't comprehend death, but I'm not going to research that more (I mean, I probably heard it on Investigation Discovery, I think? 😉).

She was drugged from a young age, and really never developed her powers or CONTROL of her powers. Based on that, I think it was remarkably restrained that she only blew up the centerpiece at dinner with Daddy Reggie, but then, she also didn't have the memory/baggage from earlier. Then when she had it all, yeah, she wiped out the entire Commission army because...she could? And again, comic book stuff. Would I say this is appropriate IRL? No, absolutely not. I'm not going to fault her for it though, because it was the appropriate reaction for her within the scene.

Also, it gives us a pretty great set up for Season 3!

[Zuleikha]

So I do think we're meant to see Vanya as someone who's maybe not all there, mentally. Or at least someone who could be sort of ruthless like Five or Diego.

I don't think the show has fully figured out who Vanya is as a character. The amnesia felt like a cheat to avoid dealing with the weight of her descent into amoral psychopathy at the end of last season. But I think we should be seeing her struggle more with her anger, temper, and envy. Those seemed to be core parts of her non-drugged personality. Instead, it felt like the show wanted us to see her as a basically nice person, who is only dangerous when outside forces cause her to lose control.

I don't buy it. I think what we saw last season is much more like Five. I think her arc this season would have felt more consistent if the show let her be the villain in the Carl/Sissy/Harlan story.

[questionfear]

10 hours ago, saoirse said:

My take on Vanya, beyond being a comic book character (and frankly, I do give that a huge amount of leeway - logic and sense have little place in most of the tv shows I watch, after all!), is that when she was young and killing nannies, it was an impulse and she didn't really comprehend that she was 'killing' them. I do believe it's been researched that very young killers don't comprehend death, but I'm not going to research that more (I mean, I probably heard it on Investigation Discovery, I think? 😉).

She was drugged from a young age, and really never developed her powers or CONTROL of her powers. Based on that, I think it was remarkably restrained that she only blew up the centerpiece at dinner with Daddy Reggie, but then, she also didn't have the memory/baggage from earlier. Then when she had it all, yeah, she wiped out the entire Commission army because...she could? And again, comic book stuff. Would I say this is appropriate IRL? No, absolutely not. I'm not going to fault her for it though, because it was the appropriate reaction for her within the scene.

Also, it gives us a pretty great set up for Season 3!

I agree, I think they were trying to show she didn't understand. The only thing that might have made it better (but would have made it far tougher from a child actor standpoint) was if they showed her killing nannies at age 2 or 3, where she really didn't have impulse control, and then she was drugged for a while, then rumored for good measure at a slightly older age. 

[Enigma X]

Though I like Vanya better in season 2 than in season 1, I do believe if she was skinning live animals instead of killing nannies more would think there was something evil about her. I do believe she may not have had the empathy to feel bad for what she was doing, but I also believe it was not normal. Reggie was horrible and wrong for not getting Vanya proper help, but he did not start treating her differently from the other children (that he emotionally abused) until all the dead nannies, right?

[Zuleikha]

IIRC, he didn't start treating her differently until she broke his monocle and her power directly threatened him.

[Enigma X]

5 minutes ago, Zuleikha said:

IIRC, he didn't start treating her differently until she broke his monocle and her power directly threatened him.

I guess what I am saying about Vanya though is that despite Reggie's abusive parenting, she was still a bit one or both of the crazy 'pathics (will not try to understand if it is socio- or psycho-). That is how the season one writers portrayed her with no nuance. Is that how they meant to portray her in hindsight? I don't know. 

Edited August 15, 2020 by Enigma X

[Guest]

On 8/12/2020 at 6:19 AM, shrewd.buddha said:

 

The Umbrella Academy was supposed to be a well trained team of superheroes at some point in their lives. There was no evidence of that when they were all together at the farm-pocalypse.  Klaus did not seem to contribute anything to the fight. 

I don’t think they were ever supposed to be a well trained team. They were are semi well controlled team. Reginald didn’t teach them to master their powers he taught them how to do what he wanted them to do. Even in the bank robbery in the first season Klaus didn’t do a thing. 

On 8/12/2020 at 8:13 AM, blueray said:

I think Alison tried to use her power but that is when Lila started fighting with her and beat her to it. And since she could copy it, it caused Alison to almost choke. 

Yeah. Alison said, “I heard a rumor..” and Lila finished the sentence. 

On 8/12/2020 at 9:00 AM, Sakura12 said:

I think she was copying his power, she was jumping around and Five was a little confused how she could move that fast.  They just hid it so we wouldn't figure out she had a power yet. 

I think the same think. Five was completely confused at how she was moving so quickly but all her jumps were off-camera. 

 

On 8/13/2020 at 11:37 AM, iMonrey said:

She was old enough to understand she had just killed someone and showed no reaction to it whatsoever. That's not normal, period. 

She was four in that scene which is on the young side for kids to understand death and that would require someone to explain it to her first. There is no indication that Reginald had that conversation with her. Plus she grew up with super-siblings and a talking chimpanzee so her sense of what hurts a person would be completely skewed. At that age her thought process would be much simpler. Someone wanted her to eat something she didn’t want and if she used her power they went away. 

Edited August 15, 2020 by Guest

[DigitalCount]

My take on Vanya in S1 was simply this: if I (intentionally, accidentally, or just out of sudden heat) killed my sister--or believed that I had killed my sister--I'd be locking myself in a room and downing those pills Reginald was giving me as a kid, with no need for people to manipulate me into it. That she was only focused on her own trauma really said something to me, and I didn't see anything in S2 that changed that. I agree that the narrative cheated us out of Vanya really coming to terms with how her own choices had contributed to what was happening. I believe the quote is "cool motive, still murder." It's not like she's the actual Dark Phoenix. The actions she took were still her, even if she had weird eyes while doing it. She had those same weird eyes and features when she broke through Harlan's forcefield to get to him at the end, so it seems like it's just an expression of interacting with that power.

I was a little confused at how Allison shook off the rumoring Lila gave her, but at the same time Lila didn't say "I heard a rumor that you stopped breathing forever" so I guess it fits. It seemed like she didn't just copy their powers, but she was explicitly upgrading them with her own? She was stronger than Luther, she overrode Allison's rumor, she was giving Five the run-around until his experience bested hers, her apocalypse powers were more effective than Vanya's apocalypse powers (honestly, what exactly is Vanya's ability called?) and I bet she could theoretically have led a ghost army (the dead operatives, maybe) if Klaus had tried anything on her. Or maybe they just got caught off guard by her having powers to begin with.

[blueray]

I took it to be similar to something they did in Charmed. The demon wishes for the "charmed one's dead" and Leo save's Piper stopping this from happening. Therefore her wish couldn't happen. Lila wishes for Allison to stop breathing. She did but Luther was able to give her CPR. It's all in the wording.

[DanaMB]

On 8/3/2020 at 12:54 PM, JonasArm said:

I'm not sure how the new academy could have different people. Unless Reginald created them, it was established that he tried to get all the children, and would have had more than seven if could have.

I watched the first ep again because  Ithought there were 12 born, but there were 43 born, but he only got seven of them. 
 

They were born on the 12th hour which is where I got the 12 mixed up in my head. 

[phoenics]

On 8/14/2020 at 12:57 AM, Zuleikha said:

I don't think the show has fully figured out who Vanya is as a character. The amnesia felt like a cheat to avoid dealing with the weight of her descent into amoral psychopathy at the end of last season. But I think we should be seeing her struggle more with her anger, temper, and envy. Those seemed to be core parts of her non-drugged personality. Instead, it felt like the show wanted us to see her as a basically nice person, who is only dangerous when outside forces cause her to lose control.

I don't buy it. I think what we saw last season is much more like Five. I think her arc this season would have felt more consistent if the show let her be the villain in the Carl/Sissy/Harlan story.

This is what I've been trying to say.  The writers gave her plot armor throughout S1 and then gave her amnesia in S2 to basically skip over the horror of what she'd done so we as fans couldn't even deal with it.  We couldn't see her really come to terms with it - it's like her amnesia was a way to wipe her slate clean and show her as a "nice girl" so we'd all get over it and move on.

But - aside from Vanya just being annoying and fairly selfish in S2 - Vanya still hasn't faced any consequences for what she's done in any timeline.

I don't need her to be a villain - I just need her to not be babied by the writers.  This is some Get Out level excuse-making for Vanya - making her the victim in a lot of situations where she did harm.  She can't be all victim - at some point she has to face consequences for and atone for what she's done.  But never mind - Ellen Page can only seem to pull off a constipated look in her scenes so I guess we can just crack on with it.

19 hours ago, Dani said:

She was four in that scene which is on the young side for kids to understand death and that would require someone to explain it to her first. 

I don't buy this - even if she wasn't old enough to understand death - most children would not react with zero emotion the way she did.  They would react with a laugh if they thought it was funny and then possibly screams of terror when they saw what happened - like the crash as the nanny fell and broke stuff would scare them and they'd freak out crying.  THAT is normal.  Her just sitting there staring off into space as she killed with no reaction... not normal.

Because of the lack of emotion she showed - even her lack of reaction at all when she killed the nannies - I do think the writers were trying to paint her as a sociopath.

https://www.looper.com/197313/umbrella-academy-the-disturbing-detail-everyone-ignored-about-vanya/#:~:text=Vanya is basically a sociopath&text=Sure%2C her family%2C especially her,might imagine could be frustrating.

Edited August 15, 2020 by phoenics

[supposebly]

I might be missing something but I find it rather odd that the discussion is so much about Vanya having to redeem herself. Meanwhile Five's mass murdering tendencies are played for laughs and barely get a mention, let alone a request for redemption.

[The Companion]

On 7/31/2020 at 7:26 PM, Chaos Theory said:

I am just glad Sissy and Harlan didn’t die or turn into bad guys.   Of Course Vanya couldn’t stay and Sissy couldn’t follow But their ending was sweet.  

 

That ending gutted me. I loved them together. I was so relieved she survived.

On 8/2/2020 at 11:03 AM, saoirse said:

 

I will miss The Handler (I'm assuming she's dead-dead-deaddead-for-realz this time), but since I had no clue Kate Walsh was going to be back this season, I take it all as a gift! I loved all her outfits, which seemed to just get more and more outlandish as she seemed to become more and more out of her mind.

Yeah, pretty sure she is done, and I will miss her absolutely fantastic looks. I loved that she traded her signature red stilettos for red stiletto boots for the farm. Kate Walsh was fantastic. She was clearly enjoying herself and she stole every scene she was in for me.

On 8/3/2020 at 9:55 AM, Chaos Theory said:

Dad was not particularly impressed with his supposed children during “A Light Supper” so getting  a view of the kids he picked he might have chosen others.  Since he never actually met Ben it is possible he still would have adopted him and made him “Number One” instead of Luther who never had any business being any kind of leader to begin with.  It would be interesting to see how Vanya might have been raised left to her own devices.  I think she is the only one we actually saw being born in Russia and with a talent for music....and destruction. What kind of havoc she could reek?  

This is almost certainly what happened, imo, and I am sure he will break that news in his signature A+ parenting way.

On 8/3/2020 at 11:54 AM, JonasArm said:

 

I especially liked them all joining Vanya as a family to help Harlan. So hopefully, united family front for and through a third and last season!

I loved loved this. I enjoy it when they come together. 

On 8/3/2020 at 11:14 PM, tennisgurl said:

God, that opening was so heartbreaking, the kids all grief stricken over losing Ben, while Reginald has the absolute nerve to blame them for what happened, and then they all start angrily lashing out at each other, because Reggies idea of teamwork is constantly making kids compete with each other and blame each other for stuff. Reginald is so awful, its shocking that the Hargreeves arent even worse than they are!

 

He truly is a Hall of Fame crappy parent. Maybe he went to the John Winchester school of parenting

On 8/4/2020 at 2:09 AM, Dani said:

  Or they just had him removed with all the dead Commission agents. She probably didn’t explain anything and just ran. She’d never be able to explain the house and barn being shot up. 

 

What's one more body? They will probably blame Vanya, the Russian operative. She obviously disappeared thr family to remove witnesses 

On 8/5/2020 at 6:43 AM, Delphi said:

Haha, I'm cracking up at that comment,  I just turned 31 and got pretty much constantly get carded for things I could've bought a decade ago.   I mean,  I'm not taking car of myself so I don't know why I'm aging well, but I'm not complaining. 

I have a baby face. It's genetic. I still get carded at 38. 

On 8/5/2020 at 8:22 PM, Bad Example said:

I am not the least bit bothered by Luther and Allison.  I think it's kind of sweet.  They didn't have a normal brother/sister dynamic, no matter what RH called them, they were more like two kids at boarding school.  

And they didn't say technically "not incest"... it dropped off after "technically", which to Allison would have been "technically not brother and sister", no matter how Klaus wanted to interpret it.

 

But we don't know they don't have a genetic link. We know they don't share the same biological mother. I think we are meant to assume that their biological mothers contributed genetic material, but we don't even know that.

Beyond genetics, I just don't buy the assertion they aren't siblings. They grew up calling each other brother and sister and called the same person mom and dad.

On 8/11/2020 at 9:34 AM, chaifan said:

I personally don't think Vanya needed a "redemption" arc.  Yes, she caused the destruction of the world in Season 1, but it was because no one taught her how to control her powers.  That's not her fault.  In Season 2, she's clearly learned how to control her powers.  She wiped out a field full of Commission agents with no collateral damage to anyone else.  As Paloma pointed out above, the near explosion in the FBI building was also not her fault, as she was drugged and tortured.  All other times she used her powers in Season 2 it was well controlled.  I don't think she needs to atone for actions that she had no control over, due to no fault of her own.  So I see Vanya's arc as more of a learning/discovery arc, not an attempt at a redemption arc, and I think it worked well for the character.

I agree. I think it is intentional that the call her "the bomb" which implies a passive role on her part. I feel like her deep rooted trauma was pretty clearly laid out and I don't feel like she needs to redeem herself for losing control. To the extent that she does, I think showing her learn how to.have a normal healthy relationship and reaching out to her siblings did contribute to that. 

On 8/11/2020 at 11:09 AM, moonorchid said:

This is where I’m at too. I never actually considered that she needed “redemption”. Last season she was manipulated by her boyfriend and found out that her sister “betrayed” her and then her siblings locked her in a vault. And this season once she did remember everything she felt a lot of guilt and remorse for her actions to the point she wanted to die. 
 

I may be the minority but I enjoyed vanyas story this season. 
 

Prob the one I enjoyed the least was Klaus. Except for getting sober (and then falling off the wagon) he ended the season kind of how he started it.

This. I really like Vanya. 

I liked Klaus this season but I wish they had given him more. And I wish his relapse had been treated more seriously. Addiction is a hard and I would have liked it to be treated with more gravity. 

They can make it up to me by saving Dave please and thank you.

 

On 8/13/2020 at 10:35 PM, saoirse said:

My take on Vanya, beyond being a comic book character (and frankly, I do give that a huge amount of leeway - logic and sense have little place in most of the tv shows I watch, after all!), is that when she was young and killing nannies, it was an impulse and she didn't really comprehend that she was 'killing' them. I do believe it's been researched that very young killers don't comprehend death, but I'm not going to research that more (I mean, I probably heard it on Investigation Discovery, I think? 😉).

She was drugged from a young age, and really never developed her powers or CONTROL of her powers. Based on that, I think it was remarkably restrained that she only blew up the centerpiece at dinner with Daddy Reggie, but then, she also didn't have the memory/baggage from earlier. Then when she had it all, yeah, she wiped out the entire Commission army because...she could? And again, comic book stuff. Would I say this is appropriate IRL? No, absolutely not. I'm not going to fault her for it though, because it was the appropriate reaction for her within the scene.

Also, it gives us a pretty great set up for Season 3!

Agreed. Children do not really understand death at 4. They do not understand it is permanent. I just don't think we can take away from those scenes that she is a sociopath. And I don't understand clamoring for her redemption in the context of a show where pretty much every character kills without regret. Unless I missed the scene where 5 agonized over the Board or Allison fell apart after killing the assassin. 

 https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/phenomena/2013/07/26/when-do-kids-understand-death/

My son would probably have killed me in a tantrum. As it was, I was dodging toys thrown at my head. The lack of impulse control combined with the inability to grasp death would have been a very deadly combination 

Overall, I loved this season. I liked the first season but this one felt so much more polished to me somehow. I enjoyed some of the Hargreaves kids getting some happiness and actually found the hope required for that to be touching. I loved seeing them work together and I find the ending twist an intriguing set up for S3 (which I am gonna need yesterday please). 

[AnimeMania]

On 8/4/2020 at 3:09 AM, Dani said:

I hated that Klaus wouldn't even help Allison and Ray roll up the dead body in the rug. He just sat on the couch and watched.

[phoenics]

3 hours ago, supposebly said:

I might be missing something but I find it rather odd that the discussion is so much about Vanya having to redeem herself. Meanwhile Five's mass murdering tendencies are played for laughs and barely get a mention, let alone a request for redemption.

Probably because when Five has killed - it's always part of a plan to stop the Apocalypse.  There is a difference between a hired assassin who is killing solely to stop an apocalypse and Vanya's killing (I didn't mind her taking out the agents at the Farm or the police or FBI).  I think we're supposed to think Five is kind of an asshole - but he's a necessary one to stop the end of the world.  He never comes off as self-centered or selfish - his sole focus for 2 seasons has been averting the end of the world.

But even Five doesn't get enough of a storyline for us to even fully understand him - he's like a point guard on the show - he facilitates the stories of the other characters but we never really learn much about him.

Vanya, unfortunately, is the reason for the apocalypse.

It's like the writers make her sociopathic, but they want us to like her and empathize with her, so they create plot armor for her that no other character gets to excuse her actions and let her off without actual redemption.  I just have a hard time seeing Vanya as anything more than a mass shooting archetype.  

To be fair, none of the characters are ever really held to any kind of real good/bad standard - everyone kills, etc.. I think the only one who actively attempts to turn away from her powers because she recognizes they are inherently not good is Allison.

 

[Zuleikha]

Yeah, it's not about whether the character has ever killed for me. It's the why and the context. Vanya's killed innocents who were no threat to her. (and she overkilled Leonard, who was not an innocent but was also no actual threat to her.) 

With Five, I feel like the show knows that he is a dangerous killer. It doesn't expect us to treat him like a poor, traumatized woobie. He gets to stay a protagonist because he only kills on assignment or in self-defense. He's not cruel with it. Also, in both seasons, he is the primary plot driver of actively saving the world. He's a person with a deep capacity for violence, but also a strong desire to better the world. He has enough control that he channels his violent tendencies for the greater good.

The other non-Vanya siblings who have been violent have only been violent in either self-defense or vigilantism (okay, that's just Diego).
 

[Delphi]

7 hours ago, Zuleikha said:

Yeah, it's not about whether the character has ever killed for me. It's the why and the context. Vanya's killed innocents who were no threat to her. (and she overkilled Leonard, who was not an innocent but was also no actual threat to her.) 
 

Well,  Leonard stole from her family to destroy them,  lied about his intentions and who he was.   Dumped out her medication.   Manipulated her into accidentally killing some guys.   Emotionally abused her.  And started treating her like absolute shit after she was traumatized about what she did to Allison.   Overkill isn't the word I'd use and I'm not one to give Vanya a hall pass for murder. 

[Paloma]

15 hours ago, phoenics said:

On 8/15/2020 at 2:03 AM, Dani said:

She was four in that scene which is on the young side for kids to understand death and that would require someone to explain it to her first. 

I don't buy this - even if she wasn't old enough to understand death - most children would not react with zero emotion the way she did.  They would react with a laugh if they thought it was funny and then possibly screams of terror when they saw what happened - like the crash as the nanny fell and broke stuff would scare them and they'd freak out crying.  THAT is normal.  Her just sitting there staring off into space as she killed with no reaction... not normal.

Because of the lack of emotion she showed - even her lack of reaction at all when she killed the nannies - I do think the writers were trying to paint her as a sociopath.

https://www.looper.com/197313/umbrella-academy-the-disturbing-detail-everyone-ignored-about-vanya/#:~:text=Vanya is basically a sociopath&text=Sure%2C her family%2C especially her,might imagine could be frustrating.

Although I have been sympathetic to Vanya and arguing against labeling her a sociopath or psychopath, I admit that this lack of emotion with the nannies does not seem normal. And the Looper link does make a valid argument about the way Vanya vs. her siblings (and other emotionally abused children) reacted to their treatment, although it's not true that she is the only one who became a murderer or committed violence--the other siblings did so because they were ordered to (or in self-defense), rather than impulsively, but their actions were still violent and lethal.

So while I am willing to admit that Vanya may have had some mental illness issues that amplified her violent reactions to the emotional abuse, I am still sympathetic to her and feel that she would have turned out OK if she had been loved and had therapy as a child. It's also important to note that the terms sociopath and psychopath are used inaccurately by many people (not just people commenting on this show). The terms really refer to the DSM diagnosis antisocial personality order, with the traits shown in this link; I don't feel that Vanya fits most of those traits:https://psychcentral.com/blog/differences-between-a-psychopath-vs-sociopath/   In fact, her lack of affect and her behavior more closely fit reactive attachment disorder (https://www.cebc4cw.org/search/topic-areas/dsm-5-criteria-for-reactive-attachment-disorder-rad/) or possibly autism (I'm not a psychiatrist, but I have edited psychiatric textbooks for several decades). 

 

[supposebly]

I would argue that Vanya acted in self-defense at the theater. While I can't remember what Luther actually wanted to do (does he say?) but he thought he had two choices. Kill her or put her back in the dungeon. If he had let Allison talk to her, this would have been prevented. He actually admits as much in season 2.

Attacking Allison was in response to finding out that she was rumored by her. On top of everything, with a slight hope that she and Allison might forge a bond, this was again a reaction to that violation. Yes, Allison was a child and barely knew what she was doing, but again, so was Vanya when she attacked the nannies.

Regarding the oatmeal scenes, yes, there was a lack of affect. But I also think it's the equivalent of a kid throwing things when not wanting to do something. It was effective, no more oatmeal. Normal children have to contend with temper tantrums or throwing food or yelling because their caretakers don't get taken out by their outbursts.

Once that didn't work, she reacted and ate her oatmeal. 

Do we ever learn what her medication is? It dulled her emotions and her powers, so not being on them means dealing with emotions she was not used to having. No wonder she can't control them. I find how she reacts to what the siblings are throwing at her constantly even as adults is resigned acceptance. If this were me, I would have had an angry outburst a long time ago. I think a controlled form of that was the book. But again, controlled, no real expression of anger. A reflection often in the form of acceptance and a question: how do you live with all this? 

And I would argue Five's rampage on the board of directors with an ax counts as rather disturbing even though the show makes it an overblown comic book scene with music. I think the oatmeal scenes are also played for laughs more than anything. That's the main reason for the lack of reaction, I would say. Most of the violence in the show is exaggerated with a few "normal" reactions to it sprinkled in. Like young Ben wanting to go home after he kills the bank robbers. Or the last Swede killing his brother.

So, while I'm thinking a lot about these characters, the show is still a bit of an absurdist comic book show with a character as a MacGuffin on the surface.

I think if anything, child abuse is the MacGuffin here that drives the plot. I love that Reggie created the apocalypse that he tortured these kids so much to prevent. Had he left the kids alone with their mothers, no apocalypse. Unless we find out that Vanya in Russia blows up the moon all by herself. In that case, forget what I just wrote.😏

Edited August 16, 2020 by supposebly

[Paloma]

53 minutes ago, supposebly said:

I think if anything, child abuse is the MacGuffin here that drives the plot. I love that Reggie created the apocalypse that he tortured these kids so much to prevent. Had he left the kids alone with their mothers, no apocalypse.

Agree with everything you wrote, and especially this in regard to Vanya. I mentioned reactive attachment disorder in an earlier comment, and although the writers may not have thought of this, this disorder has often been seen in Russian and Eastern European babies and young children who were taken from their mothers at an early age and kept in an orphanage that barely met their minimum survival needs. They learn subconsciously that it is dangerous to attach and thus do not show affection or try to connect with their adoptive parents. Although all the siblings were taken from their mothers as babies, Vanya may have been more susceptible to this disorder or it may have been aggravated by the way she was treated by Reginald and the siblings. 

[Guest]

18 hours ago, phoenics said:

I don't buy this - even if she wasn't old enough to understand death - most children would not react with zero emotion the way she did.  They would react with a laugh if they thought it was funny and then possibly screams of terror when they saw what happened - like the crash as the nanny fell and broke stuff would scare them and they'd freak out crying.  THAT is normal.  Her just sitting there staring off into space as she killed with no reaction... not normal.

Because of the lack of emotion she showed - even her lack of reaction at all when she killed the nannies - I do think the writers were trying to paint her as a sociopath.

It’s wasn’t normal because nothing in her childhood was normal. They were raised to be killers. At the bank robbery Luther threw a robber out a window and Ben was forced to massacre several others. That’s what Vanya grew up with. 

Also Grace was the only one who would have been seriously injured that she saw. One flew across the room and should have been able to walk away, one flew down stairs and out of sight and the other flew out a window and landed out of sight. Reginald wasn’t concerned for any of them and acted like she simply disobeyed an order.

Kids use feedback to understand how their actions impacts others and nothing in the feedback Vanya received said that those women were hurt or that they mattered. Was she a sociopath or was she trying to please a sociopath?

[Zuleikha]

 If he had let Allison talk to her, this would have been prevented. He actually admits as much in season 2.

Because he said it doesn't mean it's true. He can't know because it didn't happen. To me, that line is more a reflection of his own self-esteem issues and the way Reginald's upbringing has caused Luther to take on too much responsibility for the sibling dynamics. To me, end-of-s1 Vanya seemed without the capacity to admit to her own dangerousness or to responsibly manage it. I don't think any of the siblings could have reached her. Maybe that's not the way the show wanted to portray her, but that's what I saw.

The more I'm thinking about it, the more I'm annoyed about the Sissy/Vanya plot this season. I don't think the show did the groundwork to put Vanya in a romantic plot yet. IMHO, this season needed to show us Vanya meaningfully coming to terms with her guilt and her flaws and learning how to control her power. Also, this is maybe a weird kvetch, but she's the White Violin. I feel like she should always be more involved with music.

 Overkill isn't the word I'd use and I'm not one to give Vanya a hall pass for murder.

I used overkill because Vanya killed Leonard relatively slowly while he was no credible threat to her and while he was begging for his life. For me, his very real sins against her still do not justify that. YMMV.


 

[tennisgurl]

On 8/15/2020 at 8:47 PM, The Companion said:

Beyond genetics, I just don't buy the assertion they aren't siblings. They grew up calling each other brother and sister and called the same person mom and dad.

 

I know that some people have said that they are more of a superhero team that grew up together and not siblings (usually to say that the Luther/Allison stuff isn't incest) but I dont really buy that personally. They call the same people mom and dad, they all use the same last name, they all refer to each other as their brothers and sisters and introduce each other as their siblings (even at the start of season one when they were estranged) and while they dont always get along, they always do act like siblings, albeit siblings who grew up surrounded by violence and abuse and have been severely damaged due to their mutual traumas. Plus, we dont actually know that they arent biologically related, technically. We still dont know how they and the other 89 babies even came to be, just that a bunch of women around the world got randomly pregnant and gave birth in about five minutes, and that those kids had powers (at least the ones that we have met), for all we know they could have the same biological father, or be related somehow. We still have no idea where they even came from, so they could all have some DNA in common or have some other connections. 

On 8/16/2020 at 1:22 PM, Dani said:

It’s wasn’t normal because nothing in her childhood was normal. They were raised to be killers. At the bank robbery Luther threw a robber out a window and Ben was forced to massacre several others. That’s what Vanya grew up with. 

 

I think it can be kind of easy to forget, as we dont see a lot of the kids while on missions, but if they were like the bank robbery we saw, they seemed to be terribly brutal and violent, especially for kids. We saw Luther throw a guy through the roof to his death, Ben kill several people with his tentacles (and looked miserable doing it) Allison getting one bank robber to kill another, thats some seriously violent stuff, and if thats what they did a lot, that must have really contributed to how messed up they are. They were basically child soldiers, which does make their often under reactions to death and violence pretty understandable. 

Edited August 17, 2020 by tennisgurl

[Ripley68]

I enjoyed this season so much more!  Luther was a much better character, not such a sad sack.  Allison was better, not so holier than everyone.  I loved Lila and Diego.  Allison's arc wasn't as telegraphed and her story line was so much better.  I liked that not so much time was wasted in the commission or in the Swedes back story. I like that all the siblings interacted with each other and had each others backs, even when they were squabling. I liked Cha Cha and Hazel, but I enjoyed the secondary characters more this season, maybe because they didn't spend as much time on their stories.

Reggie could only get 7 parents to sell their kids, so don't know how he would get different kids in new timeline.  Five was over mantle because he was presumed dead or missing, don't know why a live Ben would be over the mantle.  I feel a little guilty, I don't get the Ben worship.  I mean, I don't hate him, but I'm not sure why everyone is so happy he got more to do.

A little confused on Reggie's alien look. Last season, he was on another planet with a dying wife. He released a jar full of lightning bug looking things as his planet got destroyed by nukes or something.  He looked human there.

A

[phoenics]

1 hour ago, Ripley68 said:

 

A little confused on Reggie's alien look. Last season, he was on another planet with a dying wife. He released a jar full of lightning bug looking things as his planet got destroyed by nukes or something.  He looked human there.

A

I keep wondering if that was his home planet or if he just hops planets?

[The Companion]

On 8/16/2020 at 10:44 AM, supposebly said:

I would argue that Vanya acted in self-defense at the theater. While I can't remember what Luther actually wanted to do (does he say?) but he thought he had two choices. Kill her or put her back in the dungeon. If he had let Allison talk to her, this would have been prevented. He actually admits as much in season 2.

Attacking Allison was in response to finding out that she was rumored by her. On top of everything, with a slight hope that she and Allison might forge a bond, this was again a reaction to that violation. Yes, Allison was a child and barely knew what she was doing, but again, so was Vanya when she attacked the nannies.

Regarding the oatmeal scenes, yes, there was a lack of affect. But I also think it's the equivalent of a kid throwing things when not wanting to do something. It was effective, no more oatmeal. Normal children have to contend with temper tantrums or throwing food or yelling because their caretakers don't get taken out by their outbursts.

Once that didn't work, she reacted and ate her oatmeal. 

Do we ever learn what her medication is? It dulled her emotions and her powers, so not being on them means dealing with emotions she was not used to having. No wonder she can't control them. I find how she reacts to what the siblings are throwing at her constantly even as adults is resigned acceptance. If this were me, I would have had an angry outburst a long time ago. I think a controlled form of that was the book. But again, controlled, no real expression of anger. A reflection often in the form of acceptance and a question: how do you live with all this? 

And I would argue Five's rampage on the board of directors with an ax counts as rather disturbing even though the show makes it an overblown comic book scene with music. I think the oatmeal scenes are also played for laughs more than anything. That's the main reason for the lack of reaction, I would say. Most of the violence in the show is exaggerated with a few "normal" reactions to it sprinkled in. Like young Ben wanting to go home after he kills the bank robbers. Or the last Swede killing his brother.

So, while I'm thinking a lot about these characters, the show is still a bit of an absurdist comic book show with a character as a MacGuffin on the surface.

I think if anything, child abuse is the MacGuffin here that drives the plot. I love that Reggie created the apocalypse that he tortured these kids so much to prevent. Had he left the kids alone with their mothers, no apocalypse. Unless we find out that Vanya in Russia blows up the moon all by herself. In that case, forget what I just wrote.😏

All of this. First of all, I think reading a ton into her reaction at that age is not in line with what we know about child development. It is super normal for kids to show no reaction to death at all, and to think it is not permanent. I see nothing here that is outside of her expected range of developmentally appropriate responses. 

see, e.g.,

https://www.vitas.com/family-and-caregiver-support/grief-and-bereavement/children-and-grief/childrens-developmental-stages-concepts-of-death-and-responses/

As with preschoolers, this group views death as temporary and reversible. 

. . .

Sometimes children at this age appear unaffected by the death and act as if nothing happened, but this doesn’t mean that they are oblivious OR that they have accepted the death. It may signify their inability in the moment to acknowledge very painful reality. They may model their grief reaction after adults in their lives who are feeling uncertain how to express their own feelings.

 

But more on point, the show uses cartoonish/comic portrayals of violence and death. If we can get a love story for an assassin last season, and if we are supposed to root for five (who has expressly said he killed without remorse as an assassin, even to the daughter of two innocent people he murdered), and if we are supposed to root for kids who killed rather than incapacitating, I just don't get how Vanya's actions are considered distinguishable in any way. 

But if you absolutely must have redemption, I see it here. Vanya finally got the chance to develop outside of the context of her abusive childhood and it gave her control over her powers, the ability to ask for help and a meaningful bond with other people. When her memories returned, those experiences made her a happier and more well adjusted person. 

 

On 8/16/2020 at 12:22 PM, Dani said:

It’s wasn’t normal because nothing in her childhood was normal. They were raised to be killers. At the bank robbery Luther threw a robber out a window and Ben was forced to massacre several others. That’s what Vanya grew up with. 

Also Grace was the only one who would have been seriously injured that she saw. One flew across the room and should have been able to walk away, one flew down stairs and out of sight and the other flew out a window and landed out of sight. Reginald wasn’t concerned for any of them and acted like she simply disobeyed an order.

Kids use feedback to understand how their actions impacts others and nothing in the feedback Vanya received said that those women were hurt or that they mattered. Was she a sociopath or was she trying to please a sociopath?

All of this. and let's not forget that he kept bringing in nannies, found a solution that didn't deter the behavior, and only decided it was a problem when she went against him.

 

[Paloma]

On 8/16/2020 at 8:19 PM, Zuleikha said:

Also, this is maybe a weird kvetch, but she's the White Violin. I feel like she should always be more involved with music.

I'm not sure when she would have had the opportunity to play an instrument while living on the farm, but that doesn't bother me much. Your "kvetch" actually reminded me of a question I had about what the White Violin represented. From the end of season 1, it apparently was an instrument that had been played by Reginald's beloved wife, and (if I remember correctly) she told him to give it to someone who would love or appreciate it like she did (I don't remember the exact words). Then there was a scene in season 2 where Vanya as a child saw the violin and expressed interest, and Reginald rather casually told her she could use it. We know that she was devoted to playing the violin, and it became the instrument of the apocalypse at the end of season 1. But was the violin itself endowed with some sort of power, or did it give whoever loved it power? If there wasn't any power associated with it, what was the significance of the scene with Reginald's wife and the scene when Reginald gave the violin to Vanya?   

[MisterGlass]

7 hours ago, Paloma said:

We know that she was devoted to playing the violin, and it became the instrument of the apocalypse at the end of season 1. But was the violin itself endowed with some sort of power, or did it give whoever loved it power? If there wasn't any power associated with it, what was the significance of the scene with Reginald's wife and the scene when Reginald gave the violin to Vanya?   

The power is from Vanya.  She controls energy waves in the form of sound, and the violin was a conduit.  Channeling through the violin seemed to keep her from boiling over when she was first rediscovering her power.

As far as Reginald giving her the violin, it could be seen as the only act of affection he gave her.  He seemed touched in the moment, though it's hard to say if it was because of the memory of his wife, affection for Vanya, or guilt for taking her powers.  Or all three.

[AnimeMania]

10 hours ago, Paloma said:

I'm not sure when she would have had the opportunity to play an instrument while living on the farm, but that doesn't bother me much.

You don't have to play an instrument to show you have a deep love and knowledge of music. Harlan was always playing music, Vanya could have easily made comments about the instruments that were playing, the tempo, the pitch and other musicy terms that might let them know that she had an extensive musical background and musical training.

[Chaos Theory]

I am curious what kind of "punishment"  Vanya deserves?   Should her siblings ignore her like they did all her life?  Lock her in the the secret room forever....like they did in season 1?  Make her get down on her knees and beg their forgiveness for eternity?  Or the writers have only bad things happen to her and none of her siblings be there and laugh at her while the world comes crashing down around her.

 

Ha ha ha.  This is what you deserve.   

 

It all seems kinda petty.