S07.E08: After, Before

[Cranberry]

Quote

With the Zephyr’s time drive malfunctioning, the team is quite literally hurling toward disaster and Yo-Yo may be their only hope. The only problem? To get her powers back, she’ll need to enlist the help of an old adversary and revisit part of her past long hidden away.

Airdate: July 15, 2020

 

[AimingforYoko]

Malick's an anarchist, huh? Well, that's on-brand for the '80s.

Great that Yo-Yo worked out her issues, but this ep seemed like a table-setter. Kinda like the last one, without all the fun references. We're gettin' down to the short strokes here, folks. I want the band back together.

[StarBrand]

Interesting that Jaying apparrently once had another daughter.  Which would explain why she would look into the possibility of taking powers away from her, rather than the alternative.

I enjoyed the Elena and May show-appropriate they would start working through Elena's issues by fighting.  Apparently she's never HAD to bounce back, which I'm not sure is a ret-con or not, but I guess it makes sense.

Due to the "previously on Shield" recaps, I almost thought I was watching a re-run of last week-nice of the show to let us know how the gang got back to get Mack-they were travelling months at a time, but always ended up at the same place.

[Jediknight]

Wait, Daisy has a sister?  Daisy has a sister?  You can't just drop something like that on us, and then ignore it.

Never thought we'd get an origin story for Yo-Yo's necklace.

I don't think we can give Barry any crap for what he does to the timeline, ever again.  Same with the Legends.  The SHIELD team isn't a chainsaw, they're about 591 nuclear warheads.  I do wonder if this section will lead to them liberating Afterlife from Asshole Malick, stopping Whitehall, and putting down a path where Jiaying doesn't go militant, thanks to regular humans helping her, and she and her Inhumans fight alongside humanity.  An alternate universe where that happens.

[thuganomics85]

Damn, revisiting Afterlife and Jiaying/Daisy's mother!  Talk about going way back.  Fun seeing Dichen Lachman in the role again, but I'm disappointed that they didn't find some kind of silly excuse to have her cross paths with Sousa/Enver Gjokaj, so we could have ourselves a mini-Dollhouse reunion.  Hopefully they crossed paths at one point during filming and we're like "Yo!"

Mainly a filler episode, but I enjoyed the Yo-Yo/Melinda duo, and the chemistry between Natalia Cordova-Buckley and Ming-Na Wen.  And I'm glad that Yo-Yo finally can control her powers again.  But it seems like the main purpose was to set up Nathanial Malick's return, and have him team up with this Cora character (played by Dianne Doan, so between her and Dove Cameron seasons ago, someone in the casting department is a fan of the Descendant series), to create "anarchy."  I guess he's going to try and create more Inhumans with the prisoners he has.  Hopefully we will get more of Jiaying's henchman played by Byron Mann, because he's awesome and should never be underutilized.  The man helped make Oliver Queen become the man he is (or was..)!

So, Melinda's telepathic powers have grown stronger and she doesn't even have to touch someone to sense their emotions.  She really is becoming Troi from Star Trek: Next Generation, if Troi also had the ability to kill someone fifty different ways in ten seconds.

Simmons made Sousa a prosthetic leg, so now Enver doesn't have to pretend to limp around anymore!

Coulson is back in LMD form, but he certainly doesn't seem to be thrilled about it.

Deke/Enoch were hilarious together.

Simmons video message to Fitz was nice, but dammit, I want him back sooner rather than later!

Looks like next week, the show will finally be doing their version of the time loop episode.  Have a feeling it's going to be less Groundhog Day and more Star Trek: TNG's "Cause and Effect."

[Maverick]

15 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

Looks like next week, the show will finally be doing their version of the time loop episode.  Have a feeling it's going to be less Groundhog Day and more Star Trek: TNG's "Cause and Effect."

 It looks most like Stargate's "Window of Opportunity", with Coulson and Daisy in the Jack and Daniel roles

 I don't get how Yo Yo's power issues were resolved.   She realizes she's been holding herself back.  OK, she knew that already from Afterlife.  I don't see what changed where that knowledge suddenly unlocked her powers again.

[paigow]

Sousa not creepy at all watching Daisy sleep / heal...

Quake vs. Fake...

How is Malick time jumping if the ship was destroyed? 

[swanpride]

Quote

The SHIELD team isn't a chainsaw, they're about 591 nuclear warheads. 

Not really...it's not THEM who mess up the timeline, that's still the Chronicons.

So, now the show isn't just inflicting more trauma on our favourite characters, they come up with even more of it from the past????? Those writers have a sadistic streak.

I admit, I don't really got the "bouncing back" solution in the end.....

[Raja]

8 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

  But it seems like the main purpose was to set up Nathanial Malick's return, and have him team up with this Cora character (played by Dianne Doan, so between her and Dove Cameron seasons ago, someone in the casting department is a fan of the Descendant series), to create "anarchy."  I guess he's going to try and create more Inhumans with the prisoners he has.  Hopefully we will get more of Jiaying's henchman played by Byron Mann, because he's awesome and should never be underutilized.  The man helped make Oliver Queen become the man he is (or was..)!

 

 

Looks like next week, the show will finally be doing their version of the time loop episode.  Have a feeling it's going to be less Groundhog Day and more Star Trek: TNG's "Cause and Effect."

Going with the theory @swanpride posted last week about each episode honoring a previous show pod despite his words, I think that Malick is going the path that Aida took in the Framework pod and is looking to add to his own set of powers. How this helps Sibyl in her goal for the Chronicoms I can't figure out.

The recruitment of Cora did remind me of the end of X-Men First Class. While showing something dark at Afterlife we had Magneto I mean Malick holding his hand out to Cora to join his brotherhood of evil.  So assuming that Daisy's sister committed suicide in the prime timeline could that have sent Jaiying away from Afterlife for a period into Crazy Cal's arms?

And back to the theory of doing an homage to each story pod of the show the time loop would be the Kree's Inhuman slave farm pod

[MissLucas]

5 hours ago, paigow said:

Sousa not creepy at all watching Daisy sleep / heal...

 

Dammit, this used to be romantic in Babylon 5 - sparkly vampires ruin everything!!!

Daisy has a sister and nobody bothered to talk about that - or that May and Yo-Yo gave her (not yet murderous) mother coordinates for a pick-up?

Glad I'm not the only one who does not get how Yo-Yo got her power back - what does not bouncing back mean? 

I miss Fitz.

[swanpride]

Might have also explained why she studied to be a doctor. Maybe she thought that with more knowledge, she might have been able to help her daughter.

My favourite part of the episode was the whole part with May and Yoyo of all people being forced to meditate and delve into their feelings. THIS is how you do a proper character-centric episode. I really loved that they went basically through all of Yoyo's past hurt (well, they skipped her cousin dying for her plan).

I think the logical high points they need to revisit would be the monolith and the Ghostrider. But the former makes most sense for the 2000s, and the latter, well, not sure if they can afford an appearance. Same for Ward. It they skip though the "highlights" he should turn up, but  who knows if that was even an option.

[blueray]

Interesting take on YoYo's powers. I guess it make sense that she didn't always have to go back to where she started but it does change what she could do. I'm glad they got her powers working again.

So Daisy had a sister? I do feel like that was a big thing to just drop in passing. Maybe it'll come up later. That whole thing gave me an x men feel to it. The whole thing were she is to powerful and they are holding her back. Has been done so many times in various movies/tv. I guess they had to do something to have another villain as they most defeated the cromacons. 

[blueray]

8 hours ago, paigow said:

How is Malick time jumping if the ship was destroyed? 

That is a good question. Unless they brought him to the 80's. Then it's only been a few years since Coulson destroyed the ship. They are jumping in small periods of time. 

[The Ringo Kidd]

This episode has a definitely not up to par. It had no humor like last week that perfectly balanced action with gags and call backs to the eighties.

It was kind of a letdown.

[tennisgurl]

We really are digging into the archives, Jaying and her Inhuman commune returns...well more like we return to them because they're in the past, but still, I really like the idea of them using time travel to kind of do a farewell tour to the show and to this part of the MCU, like Arrow in its finale season and Avengers Endgame did. It feels like its been ages when we did all the stuff with Daisy's family and the Inhumans, its interesting to see Jaying from before she was hacked to pieces and went all supervillain. Also, she has/had another daughter?! How has that never come up before? In the original timeline, did she kill herself and they hate talking about her? Does she only exist in this timeline and not the original one? I guess this might be why Jaying became a doctor, to try and help Cora, so who is Cora's father? I wonder if May and Yo-Yo will talk to Daisy about it? 

So Malick is becoming this shows version of Mr. Sinister from the X-Men, with trying to take powers from mutants/Inhumans and give them to people without powers? This has certainly gone in a very X-Men style direction, especially with Malick getting Cora to turn on her people and join him and let her powers run wild. So we have gone all out changing the past at this point, the time stream has basically become a balloon animals being shaped by a drunken clown with all of the changes. At first they were really trying to save the time line and make sure things basically stay the same, but now? With Malick running around causing problems, its basically open season...or that will just create even more divergent timelines and alternate universes and time travel is really confusing. 

May and Yo-Yo bonding was nice, kind of funny in how uncomfortable they were at first, but I am glad that it worked and Yo-Yo got her groove back. The writers of this show sure do love to traumatize our beloved characters dont they? If they cant come up with a current trauma, they just add a few to their backstories! 

I would kind of like to revisit the Hydra dream world, as well as some other older plot threads like the Monolith and Ghost Rider (I want a Ghost Rider appearance so hard) and some other lose plot threads here and there. I do hope they talk to Daisy about seeing her mom and her sister she never heard of, even if it looks like Daisy is going to be pretty busy next week! I am also still getting a vibe between her and Sousa, a vibe that I can totally get behind. 

Awww Simmons made Sousa a fancy new leg!

This was a more serious episode, but at least we had Deke and Enoch banter for a bit of comic relief here and there. "Very comforting Enoch." 

Its not a time travel story without someone getting stuck in a time loop! Will Daisy defeat the loop and escape Groundhog Day?!

Edited July 16, 2020 by tennisgurl

[Llywela]

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

 its interesting to see Jaying from before she was hacked to pieces and went all supervillain. Also, she has/had another daughter?! How has that never come up before? In the original timeline, did she kill herself and they hate talking about her? Does she only exist in this timeline and not the original one? I guess this might be why Jaying became a doctor, to try and help Cora, so who is Cora's father? I wonder if May and Yo-Yo will talk to Daisy about it?

I think it was pretty clear from Nathaniel's initial conversation with Cora that she killed herself, yes, in the original timeline - that was why Sibyl sent him to that precise moment in time, to prevent it and turn her down a different path. As to why she was never mentioned before, well, Jiaying has lived many, many lifetimes, and I would imagine that not talking about her very long history is a self-preservation tactic, partly to avoid the pain of remembering generations worth of lost loved ones and partly to avoid alerting unwarranted attention to her unnaturally long life. Whitehall first got hold of her in the War, remember, and she'd want to protect herself from anything like that happening again. Plus when we met her in S2 she was very focused on Daisy and protecting Afterlife; there really wasn't much opportunity for deep and meaningful conversations about her very long past! For all we know, she might have had many families over the decades, all of them now lost to time. I can understand why she wouldn't want to talk about that - especially why she wouldn't want to talk about a child who killed herself.

Why do we think Nathaniel is travelling through time? It's only been 7 years since we last met him in 1976; I assumed he'd lived through those years the long way, learning how to use his stolen power and making plans with Sibyl. He doesn't look much different because it's the same actor and they haven't perhaps done a great job of aging him up, but the character would still only be in his 20s (he was a teen when we first saw him in 1973) so you wouldn't expect him to look that different yet.

Edited July 16, 2020 by Llywela

[swanpride]

I wonder if they will still end up sending him to Maveth, just a few years later.

[greekmom]

12 hours ago, paigow said:

Sousa not creepy at all watching Daisy sleep / heal...

Quake vs. Fake...

How is Malick time jumping if the ship was destroyed? 

I don't like the fact that Malick kept the Fake Quake powers and it looks like his hostages will have to go through what Daisy did so his minions could have powers as well.

Damn it the team has made a mess of the timeline. No wonder they are not allowed to play with the rest of the MCU.

I want Fitz back. 

[blueray]

24 minutes ago, greekmom said:

I don't like the fact that Malick kept the Fake Quake powers and it looks like his hostages will have to go through what Daisy did so his minions could have powers as well.

 

I thought he was going to kill them?  Or have Kora kill them. He was mentioning to the one "what gave you the right to have power" and that she (and the rest of the room) were all from Afterlife. It was specifically stated that he kidnapped everyone but Gordo and Daisy's mother).

Edited July 16, 2020 by blueray

[Jodithgrace]

Since Yo-yo only has to go one way now and not return, shouldn't they change her name to Yo? 

Honestly, I couldn't understand that explanation for the return of her powers at all. 

[Llywela]

2 hours ago, greekmom said:

I don't like the fact that Malick kept the Fake Quake powers and it looks like his hostages will have to go through what Daisy did so his minions could have powers as well.

Damn it the team has made a mess of the timeline. No wonder they are not allowed to play with the rest of the MCU.

I want Fitz back. 

The team hasn't made a mess of the timeline. The Chronicoms have made a mess of the timeline (Nathaniel would have shown up at Afterlife whether May and Yoyo were there or not - Sibyl sent him there for Cora, not for SHIELD). The team hasn't succeeded in its aim of preventing that damage, but that doesn't mean they caused it! If they weren't at least trying to thwart the Chronicom plan, things would be a lot worse and would have been worse since the 30s.

Sorry, it's a personal bugbear of mine that the heroes of any given show always get the blame for any damage the villain causes that they weren't able to prevent. The blame always lies with the villain, not the beleaguered heroes doing their best against impossible odds. If an arsonist sets fire to a house and someone dies as a result, the fault lies with the arsonist for setting the fire, not with the firefighters who did their best to extinguish the flames but weren't able to get everyone out in time. The same principle applies here. It is a lot harder to mitigate damage than it is to create it, especially when you can't predict beforehand where that damage will strike.

I also want Fitz back. At this rate we'll barely see him and the season will be over. 😞

1 hour ago, blueray said:

I thought he was going to kill them?  Or have Kora kill them. He was mentioning to the one "what gave you the right to have power" and that she (and the rest of the room) were all from Afterlife. It was specifically stated that he kidnapped everyone but Gordo and Daisy's mother).

I can't imagine he'd kill them without trying to harvest their powers first - why keep them alive in the first place if not for that? If he wanted to just kill them he'd have done so on the spot, no prisoner-taking necessary. He's on a power kick.

[RachelKM]

8 hours ago, Llywela said:

I can't imagine he'd kill them without trying to harvest their powers first - why keep them alive in the first place if not for that? If he wanted to just kill them he'd have done so on the spot, no prisoner-taking necessary. He's on a power kick.

Yeah.  He expressly stated that his intention was to "redistribute the wealth" of the inhuman powers.  He wants to transfer powers to humans.  He may intend to kill the inhumans after or in the process, but he wants their powers.

Edited July 17, 2020 by RachelKM

[paigow]

Enoch will end up as the indestructible drummer for Spinal Tap farewell tour. And faithfully recreate Stonehenge because he was actually there...

[Jack Shaftoe]

More enjoyable than most episodes this season thanks to the return of the real May, feelings and all. "If need to have a physical connection, we might as well fight". May logic for the win as usual. The problem being all in Yo-yo was head was pretty dumb though, especially with the addition of "I was always capable of not going back to the starting point".

Nathaniel is still so boring he might as well be Chronicom.

[Enigma X]

Is the actor playing Malick trying to hide an accent or is that his actual accent?

[BaggythePanther]

I liked this week’s episode better than last week. I don’t care about the 80s and I like May and Yo-Yo better than Mack and Deke. Having those two be the ones who had to get in touch with their feelings was great.

So Daisy has a sister, and now she’s evil. Is anyone in Daisy’s family normal? I wonder who Kora’s father is, or if it matters. I assume we’ll get a fight between them before the end of the season. And if something happens to Jiaying that shouldn’t affect Daisy because we’ve split off into a new timeline right?

 I’m glad to see that Sousa got a new leg. For a moment I thought he’d turn it down, so I’m glad they didn’t go there. I like the Daisy/Sousa vibes it’s just a shame it’s the last season so there won’t be time to really develop anything. 
 

I love that Deke is still calling Simmons Nana and she’s just rolling with it. I need Bobo to come back. Preferably before the series finale.

ETA: Now that Nathaniel has Daisy’s powers, is he an inhuman? Or is he just a human with special abilities? If he’s not technically an inhuman, he can be killed by touching the diviner. 

Next up:

Spoiler

Hedgehog Day

episode. I can’t believe they haven’t done one yet, I’m looking forward to seeing how the characters handle it.

Edited July 17, 2020 by BaggythePanther

[Llywela]

1 hour ago, BaggythePanther said:

ETA: Now that Nathaniel has Daisy’s powers, is he an inhuman? Or is he just a human with special abilities? If he’s not technically an inhuman, he can be killed by touching the diviner.

I think he's still just a human with special abilities - Whitehall took Jiaying's powers but remained unable to touch the diviner, as I recall. Inhumans have specific DNA markers that differentiate them from humans. But how that works, given that inhuman powers are linked to altered DNA, how they can give themselves the powers without also altering their DNA, well that I don't know!

I think I can see what they were going for with Elena. Bouncing back to where she started was a limit she imposed on herself from the start, psychologically - which kinda sorta makes sense when you remember that Elena got her powers out in the wild, so to speak. She went through terrigenesis all alone as part of the earliest wave of 'fish oil inhumans' and would have had no idea what was happening to her. Remember how freaked out Daisy was when she turned, how hard it was for her to learn how to control her powers. And we've seen multiple examples of how hard it can be for inhumans to learn to control their powers even with full support of more experienced inhumans. Elena was all alone learning to use hers. So when I look at it from that angle, it makes a bit more sense that she only thought she had to snap back to where she started, maybe because in the first panic of transformation she instinctively did it that way early on and then just assumed it always had to be that way. Then the shrike attack was just one trauma too many and the loss of her powers was how that trauma manifested - she has been through a lot in the last few years! I liked how the episode explored that trauma - Elena has made some really hard calls over the years and has always brazened through, so it was really satisfying to delve into how that has affected her at a deeper level, that while she may not always regret the choices she's made she does worry about her impulsiveness, is afraid that always going so fast sometimes causes her to make bad calls that she can't take back. She's definitely broken through that mental block now!

I will add that I really liked Jiaying's observation that just because a problem is psychological doesn't mean it isn't real.

[swanpride]

But forward didn't work, right...did she run backwards?

 

Anyway, I actually liked the limit on her abilities. Speeder powers are a real headache for a narrative without such limits. But I guess they will be able to deal with it for a few episodes.

[Llywela]

39 minutes ago, swanpride said:

But forward didn't work, right...did she run backwards?

...no? She ran forwards, we saw that. She realised that always having to get back to where she started was holding her back, both physically and emotionally. Elena always bounces back, no matter what happens to her, that's been underlined all season. Here, she realised that mentality was the problem - she gave herself permission to not bounce back, to not be okay with some of the choices she has made, and in the process subconsciously gave herself permission to move on from her past trauma. Basically, she had a mental block preventing her from accessing her speedy power and once she broke through that mental block she was able to run really fast again. That was how I understood it, anyway. It makes sense as a development of her powers - she wouldn't be the first inhuman we've met whose ability increases from where they started, as they learn how to control it better and gain better understanding of what they can do. Daisy is case in point there - look how far her powers have come since S2! Elena's power hadn't ever really developed in all the years she's been on the show, so I like that she's had this storyline now, first exploring who she is without her power and then allowing her to develop it further.

I agree that speedy powers can be a problem to write around - but then again, Daisy's powers are pretty immense and thus can also be difficult to write around. But there are plenty of potential issues for which neither of those powers is any actual use, and there aren't that many episodes left for it to be a problem now anyway.

[blackwing]

On 7/15/2020 at 10:18 PM, StarBrand said:

Interesting that Jaying apparrently once had another daughter.  Which would explain why she would look into the possibility of taking powers away from her, rather than the alternative.

So we were still in 1983, right?  I thought after Daisy suggested that Yo Yo go see Jiaying, that someone said something about not doing anything to the timeline that would affect others, especially those that weren't born yet.  That implied to me that Daisy wasn't yet born in 1983?  I assumed that when Jiaying talked about helping her daughter, this confirmed that Kora is her daughter.  Kora looked to be at least 18 (I'm sure Dianne Doan is significantly older) so I guess Jiaying was probably at least in her late 30s here?  So she was supposed to be mid 50s the first time we saw her on the show?

I think I missed a little bit in the beginning as to why Yo Yo was the only person that could fix the ship's time drive (at least I think it was the time drive?)  Did she need to remove it before it exploded, or something?  Also, count me among those who didn't fully understand the "you didn't bounce back" explanation.  She used to move fast but have to return back to where she started.  Now she just moves fast and doesn't need to bounce back?  Because she removed her mental block / guilt at indirectly causing the death of her uncle?  Ok.

Ming-Na Wen is a gem.  "Is there a way to do this without being so close to her face?"   Melinda was great in this episode.

Is Gideon dead in this timeline?  DId we see him die?  I really can't remember.  Or is it just that in this timeline, Nathaniel rose to power instead of Gideon?

There are only 5 episodes left, right?  Seems like they need to start wrapping up things soon... and now they've introduced a powered megalomaniac Nathaniel and a new energy-powered sidekick.  If the time drive is fixed then they won't be jumping around time anymore but they still need to 1) take down Sibyl for good; 2) take down Nathaniel; and 3) find Fitz.  I realise that the actor took on other commitments when he didn't think the show was going to get renewed, but the "Fitz is lost" storyline is dragging.  Couldn't they even have filmed a 30 second clip of Fitz and inserted it in the last seconds of the show, in the traditional post-Coulson saying "We'll return in a moment", just so we can see where he is and what he is doing.  Not sure why they stopped saying "We'll return in a moment".

 

 

[Raja]

2 minutes ago, blackwing said:

So we were still in 1983, right?  I thought after Daisy suggested that Yo Yo go see Jiaying, that someone said something about not doing anything to the timeline that would affect others, especially those that weren't born yet.  That implied to me that Daisy wasn't yet born in 1983?  I assumed that when Jiaying talked about helping her daughter, this confirmed that Kora is her daughter.  Kora looked to be at least 18 (I'm sure Dianne Doan is significantly older) so I guess Jiaying was probably at least in her late 30s here?  So she was supposed to be mid 50s the first time we saw her on the show?

I

Jaiying is effectively an Inhuman vampire and like them does not age, if she is able to suck life force from others. Most of the time we were told volunteers in Afterlife stepped forward to insure their leader survived. She was shown in flashback as a WWII Nazi Hydra Dr Whitehall first came across her

[blackwing]

26 minutes ago, Raja said:

Jaiying is effectively an Inhuman vampire and like them does not age, if she is able to suck life force from others. Most of the time we were told volunteers in Afterlife stepped forward to insure their leader survived. She was shown in flashback as a WWII Nazi Hydra Dr Whitehall first came across her

Ah right, I had forgotten that.  So Daisy could potentially have many more half-siblings that we don't know about.  If there weren't only 5 episodes left, I would say they could have set up a reveal that Melinda and Daisy are half-sisters after all.  I know we saw the incomparable Tsai Chin as Melinda's mother some years back (she was criminally underused and I always wished they brought her back) but this could have been another shocking reveal.

[Llywela]

51 minutes ago, blackwing said:

So we were still in 1983, right?  I thought after Daisy suggested that Yo Yo go see Jiaying, that someone said something about not doing anything to the timeline that would affect others, especially those that weren't born yet.  That implied to me that Daisy wasn't yet born in 1983?  I assumed that when Jiaying talked about helping her daughter, this confirmed that Kora is her daughter.  Kora looked to be at least 18 (I'm sure Dianne Doan is significantly older) so I guess Jiaying was probably at least in her late 30s here?  So she was supposed to be mid 50s the first time we saw her on the show?

I think I missed a little bit in the beginning as to why Yo Yo was the only person that could fix the ship's time drive (at least I think it was the time drive?)  Did she need to remove it before it exploded, or something?  Also, count me among those who didn't fully understand the "you didn't bounce back" explanation.  She used to move fast but have to return back to where she started.  Now she just moves fast and doesn't need to bounce back?  Because she removed her mental block / guilt at indirectly causing the death of her uncle?  Ok.

Ming-Na Wen is a gem.  "Is there a way to do this without being so close to her face?"   Melinda was great in this episode.

Is Gideon dead in this timeline?  DId we see him die?  I really can't remember.  Or is it just that in this timeline, Nathaniel rose to power instead of Gideon?

There are only 5 episodes left, right?  Seems like they need to start wrapping up things soon... and now they've introduced a powered megalomaniac Nathaniel and a new energy-powered sidekick.  If the time drive is fixed then they won't be jumping around time anymore but they still need to 1) take down Sibyl for good; 2) take down Nathaniel; and 3) find Fitz.  I realise that the actor took on other commitments when he didn't think the show was going to get renewed, but the "Fitz is lost" storyline is dragging.  Couldn't they even have filmed a 30 second clip of Fitz and inserted it in the last seconds of the show, in the traditional post-Coulson saying "We'll return in a moment", just so we can see where he is and what he is doing.  Not sure why they stopped saying "We'll return in a moment".

We are still in 1983, yes. Daisy won't be born until 1988 (July 2, to be precise - we were told that by both Jiaying and Cal back in S2). From what we saw here, Jiaying hasn't even met Cal yet.

We don't know how old Jiaying is, but she is a lot older than either 30s or 50s - we first met her way back in WWII! She doesn't only have a healing power, she basically has the power of eternal youth. We learned in S2 that she is really, really old, that the inhumans have been sacrificing people to her once a generation - she drains their lifeforce to rejuvenate herself. We don't know how old she is, but it is safe to say that she has lived many, many lifetimes. For all we know, she may have had many generations of children before Daisy and Cora.

Yoyo was the only person who could fix the time drive because it was cycling so fast it was impossible to reach through the power field and disconnect some important part - only Yoyo with her powers could move fast enough to do it. Touching that power field would have been catastrophic for anyone else - and that catastrophe would have been before they even reached the thing, rendering even a suicide-martyr attempt futile.

Elena's mental block was over way, way more than just guilt over her uncle's death. She has experienced a lot of trauma, especially since joining SHIELD. She has a history of impulsive actions, many of which have deliberately or inadvertently caused the deaths of other people (we saw flashbacks of Ruby and Tess, also). But she has never allowed herself to process how she felt about any of those things, always 'bounced back' and brazened it through. But deep down, she was struggling with the consequences of her actions, second guessing the choices she makes at such high speed. Thus the mental block to stop her using her powers - literally forcing herself to go slow. Once she realised that, she was able to give herself permission to not be okay with some of the choices she has made, which is the first step to dealing with her trauma. And that unblocked her power. Bouncing back to her starting position was a limitation she imposed on herself probably when she first got her power and was freaked out by it as all new inhumans tend to be - most likely she instinctively returned to her starting point the first few times and then just assumed it was a condition of her power. I don't think she has ever really tested that limitation - we've certainly never seen such a test. She has always taken for granted that she must return to her starting point. And unlike Daisy she never really had the support of more experienced inhumans to help her explore the full potential of her gift - but that gift always had the capacity to grow beyond what she first knew of it, just like every other inhuman we've seen.

I don't think we know what has become of Gideon in this timeline, no. Maybe he is still following much the same course (only delayed because his father died 6 years later) while Nathaniel is off experimenting with inhuman powers?

Fitz isn't lost. They've been clear about that. He isn't with the team, but he isn't lost (for once). He is elsewhere, controlling their time jumps...or at least he was until the drive was damaged. It is high time they were reunited now, though!

Edited July 17, 2020 by Llywela

[foxfreakinmulder]

The first thing I thought of when I saw "half" Coulson in that LMD making machine is look they make LMD's like putting a cake in an easy bake oven now, lol.

Did Cora know May? I didn't understand why Cora told May and Elena "you shouldn't be here" when they first came upon her, it was like she recognized them or at least May because of the way May looked at her. What was the watch May handed to Jiaying, it was coordinates to someplace right? 

I enjoyed the May and Elena team a lot and how uncomfortable they were with the meditation healing and decided to fight instead. That's so May.

So the jet is/was bouncing through time but staying in the same place? In the first couple of episodes the team didn't know the year they jumped to or when they were going to jump again but now they do? Or did they always know? I'm confused on that.

I thought the clearing that May and Elena landed the jet in with all the trees down looked like the spot Daisy blew all the trees downs when she was scared and hiding after she got her powers. I know it not because that hasn't happened yet I just thought it looked the same.  

 I also like that Deke calls Simmons Nana and she just rolls with it.

More Deke and Enoch scenes please.

I hope Fitz is in more than just the final episode.

 

Edited July 17, 2020 by foxfreakinmulder

[Llywela]

2 hours ago, foxfreakinmulder said:

Did Cora know May? I didn't understand why Cora told May and Elena "you shouldn't be here" when they first came upon her, it was like she recognized them or at least May because of the way May looked at her. What was the watch May handed to Jiaying, it was coordinates to someplace right?

So the jet is/was bouncing through time but staying in the same place? In the first couple of episodes the team didn't know the year they I jumped to or when they were going to jump again but now they do? Or did they always know? I'm confused on that.

I think she said that as a warning, because she knew she wasn't in control of her power and that she was dangerous - and perhaps also because casual visitors are really not encouraged at Afterlife!

The time skips in this episode were really short, shorter with each skip, because the time drive was broken. Jemma gave a presentation on it and likened it to skimming a stone in a pool - the jumps gets shorter and shorter and end with the stone sinking into the water. The Zephyr was in crisis with the time drive broken, so the jumps were only a matter of days, then hours, then minutes, then seconds. That's how they knew they hadn't gone far. Also, yeah, they seemed to be able to just check a monitor and know how far they'd jumped here, which they didn't before - did Enoch say he was checking star charts or something?

[Guest]

3 hours ago, foxfreakinmulder said:

So the jet is/was bouncing through time but staying in the same place? In the first couple of episodes the team didn't know the year they jumped to or when they were going to jump again but now they do? Or did they always know? I'm confused on that.

Until the drive was damaged Fitz was controlling the jumps to put them in the same time and place as the Chromicons. Now the jumps are the result of the malfunctioning drive. Once they had jumped twice Simmons was able to use those two data points to figure out when and how long each subsequent jump would be. 

[swanpride]

Well, beforehand they were following whatever course the Chronicons set. But now they have lost control and are hopping over the timeline. After three jumps it shouldn't be difficult to do the math.

[foxfreakinmulder]

1 hour ago, Llywela said:

The Zephyr was in crisis with the time drive broken, so the jumps were only a matter of days, then hours, then minutes, then seconds.

Thanks for the explanation:-) But was the Zephyr staying in the same place because May and Elena took off and the Zephyr disappeared then when they came back it appeared right before them.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, foxfreakinmulder said:

Thanks for the explanation:-) But was the Zephyr staying in the same place because May and Elena took off and the Zephyr disappeared then when they came back it appeared right before them.

The Zephyr is staying in the same place when they jump. Before May and Yo-Yo left Enoch explained that they were traveling in the direction of Afterlife so that they would be in the right place when they met back up with the quinjet. For May and Yo-Yo the episode happened over 2 days and over 20 minutes for everyone else. 

[Guest]

6 hours ago, foxfreakinmulder said:

What was the watch May handed to Jiaying, it was coordinates to someplace right? 

It was the watch May was using to keep track of how long they had before the rendezvous with the Zephyr. May told Jiaying they would send her coordinates so they could meet up later to help fight Gideon. 

[teenj12]

THIS.WAS.THE.BEST.EPISODE.OF.THE.SEASON.

Sorry, it just was. I liked the duo of Elena and May - their closer relationship this year has been one of the most delightfully unexpected surprises for me, and this episode sealed how well the actresses work together. I loved Elena working through her traumas (and the callback to her killing Ruby, yikes, but everyone was making awful choices that season), and how May helped her through it. Also, it's great that Yo-Yo doesn't need to bounce back anymore, though I'll miss it for that being such a distinct take on super speed.

And the revisit to Afterlife/the Inhumans! Goodness, this episode reminded just how well AOS handled the Inhumans lore over the actual short-lived show.

Was taken by surprise that Jaiyang had another daughter. It seems so late in the game to do a "Daisy has a sibling" story, but seeing as this show kind of started with Daisy's family issues, maybe the writers thought this was a fitting route to take? We'll see how it goes, as I'm really curious to see Dasiy's reaction when she finds out.

At this point, I just wonder how they'll repair the timeline.

[foxfreakinmulder]

48 minutes ago, Dani said:

It was the watch May was using to keep track of how long they had before the rendezvous with the Zephyr. May told Jiaying they would send her coordinates so they could meet up later to help fight Gideon. 

Thank you Dani :-) I watch HULU with my ROKU stick and for some reason it kept buffering so I was getting frustrated and zoning out because what I was really concentrating on was weather or not to throw my tv out the window, lol.  

[MisterGlass]

I do enjoy Yo-Yo and May together, and it was interesting to revisit afterlife.  Great continuity catch whoever realized the Yo-Yo would have to touch the Diviner to her cheek.

I was a little surprised that nobody in the 80s commented on Yo-Yo's advanced prosthetics, May's Apple Watch, or the hover plane.

Interesting to see Phil coming more to terms with his LMD nature this episode.  He was so pained at having to shut down to charge, and Simmons making a sleep analogy just made him more uncomfortable.

On 7/16/2020 at 2:25 AM, paigow said:

Sousa not creepy at all watching Daisy sleep / heal...

I'd actually give that one a pass.  Daisy knows he's there, and in her timeline she was just rescued a couple hours ago from a body horror assault by Malik.  It might be a comfort to have someone on guard.

[bethy]

Deke's use of "Nana" with Simmons gives me the creeps. I also find it weirdly sweet. I'm having a hard time reconciling those conflicting feelings. 

[Raja]

11 hours ago, MisterGlass said:

I do enjoy Yo-Yo and May together, and it was interesting to revisit afterlife.  Great continuity catch whoever realized the Yo-Yo would have to touch the Diviner to her cheek.

I was a little surprised that nobody in the 80s commented on Yo-Yo's advanced prosthetics, May's Apple Watch, or the hover plane.

 

Well they are Inhumans whose powers can manifest as anything a writer needs them too. From Li's generating low tech blades to an Inhuman on the moon becoming a wall used to teleport people to earth if the Inhuman turned into a teleporting dog is not  around. When you can see Inhumans turn into practically anything a bit of tech shouldn't be much of a stretch. The quinjet's shown capabilities are not much different then the Harrier jump jets which were just in the news in the UK v. Argentina Falkland Islands War. A phone with a big digital display or  Six Million Dollar hand might have been nothing compared to what Jaiying and Li had seen over the years.

[Kel Varnsen]

Maybe it was just me but I just didn't buy that Malick Junior and a few helicopters full of goons could take down the entire Inhuman base. I mean. Daisy's quake powers are good, but they are only really good at fighting the person you are focused on. Unless everyone else at that place got really crappy powers they should have been easy to beat. Plus the least Elena and May could have done was use the Quinjet to blow up those helicopters on their way out.

Also did anyone else find it creepy that the killer of Yo-yo's uncle had the same beard/bald headed hair style as Mack?

[swanpride]

That is assuming that the base was full of Inhumans. Remember, most Inhumans don't actually live there, they just come to visit when they need help or in order to connect with the community. Since they currently have a volatile Inhuman who threatens to destroy the whole base around, it is pretty likely that there only were a handful people there. During the fake attack of shield, the compound was pretty full, due to Raina foreseeing Ultron, and Jiaying most likely made sure that the most powerful would be around.

 

And we do know that a lot of Inhumans have pretty crappy powers which aren't really make them all that dangerous.

 

Also...I wonder about Malick. More precisely, I wonder what his strange clothing are hiding.

[Llywela]

53 minutes ago, swanpride said:

That is assuming that the base was full of Inhumans. Remember, most Inhumans don't actually live there, they just come to visit when they need help or in order to connect with the community. Since they currently have a volatile Inhuman who threatens to destroy the whole base around, it is pretty likely that there only were a handful people there. During the fake attack of shield, the compound was pretty full, due to Raina foreseeing Ultron, and Jiaying most likely made sure that the most powerful would be around.

We certainly only saw a handful of prisoners, which lends weight to your theory.

[AKA...CJ86]

Yo-yo/May teamup, I'm there for it.

Seems like Kora is going to be dragged along for the ride with Malick for the remainder of the season. I was thinking, revisit Afterlife, Jiaying, and the revelations that came out of this event... and bench Daisy. But looks like we'll get more by season's end.

You know what I miss... I miss Fitz... I need my Fitz fix...

[VCRTracking]

Wow, a little late in the game to be introducing Daisy's half-sister but okay, Jed and Maurissa! I'm enjoying this victory lap season and am here for it.

Edited July 25, 2020 by VCRTracking