S02.E04: More to It Than Fun

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

Betty sees her life has been a sham for years.

Promo:

Original air date: 6/16/20

Edited June 28, 2020 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Armchair Critic]

Linda went after a married man and Dan was lying that he was not having an affair and gaslighting Betty. They were both jerks so even though Betty has her faults I side with her 

Spoiler

except when she killed them obviously

 

[SuzieQ]

WOW!!  

Spoiler

They did not deserve to die, but damn!  Dan and Linda were not good people!

Dan knew what he was doing all along and had all the emotions of a sociopath.  If you're unhappy, you have the right to end a marriage, but there's a right and a wrong way to go about things!

[Annber03]

Man, using that reimbursement angle, with Dan talking about buying a house he knows full well he'll never live in 'cause he's just going to get the money back when he eventually divorces Betty...like I said in the discussion on the last episode, that is slick. And pretty scummy. And then him saying, "I didn't want to spring it on you like this" right after he comes home and wordlessly pulls out a suitcase and starts throwing clothes in it without any explanation beforehand. 'Kay. 

I like how Linda's worrying about what her father would say if she'd told him she'd met a man who was married and had kids, yet apparently has no problem broadcasting the details of her relationship to her co-workers. Granted, one could argue there's a bit of a difference between talking about something like that with your family compared to people you're working with, but still...

(And again, A+ casting here, 'cause man, she really does look like the actress who played the younger version of Betty especially.)

The counselor explaining the concept of gaslighting and what an affair and subsequent divorce can do to somebody's mindset, especially when it comes to the issue of trust, both in their spouse and themselves, was a great way to frame the events of this episode. The way Betty was interacting with her kids during her visits...you could already practically see her wheels turning about how she's going to try and turn them against Dan and Linda. 

And on that note, I'm feeling really bad for these kids, knowing what they're about to get caught up in and seeing their parents way more absorbed in their own issues and stupid games and pettiness than they are in just trying to be civil and co-parent like the adults they're supposed to be. 

[Sessa]

I do not feel at all sorry for Betty Broderick.  Lots of people get divorced, lots of people have affairs, nothing justifies her behavior. Nothing. She murdered two people, one being the father of her children because she couldn’t handle him leaving her. Her “If I can’t have him no one will” mentality, combined with her unwillingness to take responsibility, or express remorse over the years will garner zero sympathy from me. I also strongly disagree with the characterization of lying about an affair as “Gaslighting” or “ Brainwashing”. Give me a break. I hope she spends the rest of her life in prison.

[Brooke0707]

This is a great series. I feel so bad for Betty. She dedicated her life to supporting Dan and putting what he wants first, and he treated her like flaming garbage. Dan and Linda were disgusting people. The way Dan treated his wife and the mother of his children was so twisted. Ugh. Great casting with Dan and Linda though. Christian Slater does smug, emotionless asshole super well and the woman who plays Linda looks just like young Betty.

Edited June 17, 2020 by Brooke0707

[Armchair Critic]

I have been interested in this case for awhile. Have read some of the books, many articles, and quotes from sources and the way Dan and Linda antagonized Betty ended up backfiring on them. Dan did a lot of dirty tricks and Linda was happy to rub it in. They knew her mindframe and kept poking the bear.

Spoiler

I am putting their murder in spoilers since I don't think they have shown that yet on this program. Like I have said before I don't condone Betty murdering them.

 

[mamadrama]

17 hours ago, Armchair Critic said:

I have been interested in this case for awhile. Have read some of the books, many articles, and quotes from sources and the way Dan and Linda antagonized Betty ended up backfiring on them. Dan did a lot of dirty tricks and Linda was happy to rub it in. They knew her mindframe and kept poking the bear.

  Hide contents

I am putting their murder in spoilers since I don't think they have shown that yet on this program. Like I have said before I don't condone Betty murdering them.

 

I think it's possible to abhor what she ultimately did , recognize that Dan and Linda were awful to her, and dislike everyone involved yet still feel sympathy for her situation. I don't like Dan, but I don't like Betty either. I still think what he did to her was terrible, though. One thing I've learned about this case over the years is that most people have complicated feelings about the whole thing. 

Edited June 17, 2020 by mamadrama

[Spartan Girl]

Geez the way Dan told Betty that she was right all along was cold. As was how he duped her into buying that house.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Mr. Katimski! I'm glad they had his character explain the psychology of infidelity and how it can shake a person's trust in themselves and others. His testimony was my favorite part of this episode. Everyone should have to hear everything that he said.

Watching Dan gaslight Betty was sickening. I don't know how people like Dan can keep lying to their spouses and pretending to be in love. When he tried to justify cheating on Betty with Linda by saying that he's been miserable for years, I just rolled my eyes. That's no excuse for cheating, let alone cheating and leading your wife to believe that you want to have more children together. And of course, he was just being a snake in the grass to lull her into a false sense of security so he could continue to lay the groundwork to screw her financially.

It's still absurd to me that Dan hired Linda. She had no experience. She couldn't even type.

I didn't know whether to laugh or cry when Dan started packing by putting clothes that were still on the hangers into his suitcase. He was clearly one of those people who couldn't even take care of his own basic needs without a woman to do stuff for him. And again more emotional manipulation by coming into the bedroom, refusing to respond to her multiple questions, and just dumping clothes into a suitcase until he was good and ready to tell her that he was leaving. And even then he was still not being honest with her.

6 hours ago, Sessa said:

I also strongly disagree with the characterization of lying about an affair as “Gaslighting” or “ Brainwashing”.

He didn't just lie about his affair. Every time she confronted him about it, he completely denied it and told her that SHE was crazy for thinking that he was cheating. That's the very definition of gaslighting. It's like every morning you look out your kitchen window and see a bear so you say to your roommate/spouse/friend, "OMIGAWD, there's a bear in the yard!" and they say, "No, there isn't. You're imagining things. Are you crazy?" Now imagine that happening every day for years. You keep seeing the bear and every time you point it out, someone tells you that you are not seeing a bear and that you are crazy for thinking that you see a bear. And then one day the same person says, "Oh, yeah, that bear is in the yard every morning." This person not only lied to you but told you that you were not seeing what you were seeing. On top of that, they told you that YOU were crazy for thinking that you were seeing it.

[poeticlicensed]

I think this episode was a bit too sympathetic to Betty. Yes, Dan was a gaslighting asshole, but Betty is being portrayed as a naive little happy housewife who was blindsided, when the truth was that they fought like cats and dogs for years, they both threatened divorce constantly, Betty was foul mouthed and screamed at everyone, including her kids.

I am glad that Linda is being portrayed as not so innocent, as she was in the other movie and in books. She set her sights on  Dan and went for it, wife and kids be damned. The rat thing killed me. Seriously, if I came home and found my house infested with rats, I would expect my husband to come home to help me deal with it, I don't care how important he is. 

Bottom line, there are no innocents here, except for the kids. 

 

 

[cardigirl]

I, too, enjoyed the psychiatrist explaining the nature of infidelity and what it does to the bond of trust between married partners. My thought was that he was infering that the gaslighting didn't begin with the affair, but possibly with the relationship from the beginning. 

Dan targeted Betty as someone he could manipulate and control (under the guise of love) to help him through med school and then law school, all the while, producing their children. He never really built a true intimacy with her, or at least we are not shown that. Betty mentions that when they went to counseling and she thought Dan had learned the value of having someone who truly knows who you are and loves you in your life, to me that was another moment of being fooled by him, because he wasn't valuing her at all, and she really didn't know what was going on with him.

That's why, when he does go for the divorce, he is able to be so ruthless and cold-blooded about it. He knows every angle ahead of her, and she cannot compete. He was always calculating, always. He pretends to care, but really doesn't seem to. He'll give her the bare minimum he has to. 

It's hard to watch Linda gabbing with the office staff about where she and Dan go on their trysts, and I felt bad for the administrative assistant who was uncomfortable enough to say something to Dan. Of course it wasn't going to change anything. But that entire scene and the one where Betty tried to surprise Dan at the office on his birthday was just so sad. I would have burned his clothes too.  

 

 

[poeticlicensed]

Dan and Linda's families must be fuming right about now. 

[Persnickety1]

1 hour ago, poeticlicensed said:

I think this episode was a bit too sympathetic to Betty. Yes, Dan was a gaslighting asshole, but Betty is being portrayed as a naive little happy housewife who was blindsided, when the truth was that they fought like cats and dogs for years, they both threatened divorce constantly, Betty was foul mouthed and screamed at everyone, including her kids.

I am glad that Linda is being portrayed as not so innocent, as she was in the other movie and in books. She set her sights on  Dan and went for it, wife and kids be damned. The rat thing killed me. Seriously, if I came home and found my house infested with rats, I would expect my husband to come home to help me deal with it, I don't care how important he is. 

Bottom line, there are no innocents here, except for the kids. 

 

 

Spoiler

I seem to recall from the Stumbo book that Kolkena had previously been a flight attendant but had gotten fired for inappropriate behavior (I believe she had planted her arse in a passenger's lap and giggling like a school girl).  Yeah, Linda definitely had her issues even before Dan entered the picture.  I'm putting this in spoilers since I'm not sure if it will be portrayed in the show.  

Interesting how Dan leapfrogged Linda from the likely minimum wage front desk building receptionist to making her a "paralegal" (without any classes or certification, no less) with her own corner office and likely a sizable increase in salary to go with it.  If I had been one of the other office workers, I'd have been furious, too.  They knew just how Linda had gotten that position.  Ugh.  (IIRC, in the book and in the Lifetime movie, one of his long-term workers resigned over the whole tawdry mess.  I missed about 10 minutes of last night's episode, so maybe they covered that incident.)

Also, how convenient that Dan didn't even tell his own children he was leaving.  "Should I leave tonight or in the morning?"  Betty should have said, "Your ass isn't going anywhere until you sit down and explain this bullshit to your children, you prick."  

Loved the choice of music for this episode, as usual.  

 

  

 

[preeya]

1 hour ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Mr. Katimski! I'm glad they had his character explain the psychology of infidelity and how it can shake a person's trust in themselves and others. His testimony was my favorite part of this episode. Everyone should have to hear everything that he said.

Yes, ITA.  Most people know the "dirty laundry" of the case, but the addition of this insight gives more of an in depth psychological perspective.

BTW: When I saw him, I said it's Thatcher Grey.

[Razzberry]

It seems this show is trying to blame the victim, even for Betty's craziness which went back years.  From the time the kids were small she would tell them constantly they were getting a divorce and they needed to choose which parent they wanted to live with.

[poeticlicensed]

2 hours ago, Persnickety1 said:

Interesting how Dan leapfrogged Linda from the likely minimum wage front desk building receptionist to making her a "paralegal" (without any classes or certification, no less) with her own corner office and likely a sizable increase in salary to go with it.  If I had been one of the other office workers, I'd have been furious, too.  They knew just how Linda had gotten that position.  Ugh.  (IIRC, in the book and in the Lifetime movie, one of his long-term workers resigned over the whole tawdry mess.  I missed about 10 minutes of last night's episode, so maybe they covered that incident.)

They covered the complaining coworker in the show, but Dan was just like, get out of my office. 

I also LOLed when Dan said that Linda could learn to be a paralegal on the job. 

Apparently Linda was fired for being inappropriate with a passenger. Some say she sat in his lap, while others say she had sex with him in the bathroom, which sounds super gross. 

And apparently they were pretty open about their relationship after a while. 

32 minutes ago, Razzberry said:

It seems this show is trying to blame the victim, even for Betty's craziness which went back years.  From the time the kids were small she would tell them constantly they were getting a divorce and they needed to choose which parent they wanted to live with.

She gaslit the kids like Dan gaslit her. Pretty sick. 

[txhorns79]

2 hours ago, Persnickety1 said:

They knew just how Linda had gotten that position.  Ugh.  (IIRC, in the book and in the Lifetime movie, one of his long-term workers resigned over the whole tawdry mess. 

Yes, in the tv movie (which I think originally aired on CBS), Dan's longtime assistant (played by Debra Jo Rupp!) quits because she doesn't like what is going on between Dan and Linda.  I think the tv movie was a lot more vague as to whether Dan and Linda were having an affair, suggesting it, but not outright saying it. 

 

3 hours ago, poeticlicensed said:

I think this episode was a bit too sympathetic to Betty. Yes, Dan was a gaslighting asshole, but Betty is being portrayed as a naive little happy housewife who was blindsided, when the truth was that they fought like cats and dogs for years, they both threatened divorce constantly, Betty was foul mouthed and screamed at everyone, including her kids.

I think, with this particular true crime story, it is very difficult to achieve the balance the story really needs.  Moreover, we've seen Betty is more than capable of being self-destructive without any help from Dan or Linda. 

[seacliffsal]

I think that they're writing Betty a bit too "innocent" as she appears kind of immature and non-thinking.  With as many episodes as they have, they could develop her reactions a bit more.  It's kind of like here's a statement to her friends, then a question to Dan, etc., without really developing her ongoing thoughts and reactions.  Maybe the writers really want us to think that Betty was just blindly taking care of the kids/house and was not responsible for any tension with Dan.

[Armchair Critic]

Maybe I should start a separate thread for the books because my opinions are definitely colored by what I read which went deeper into it than this series. For example Betty didn't always have a foul mouth, she (ironically now) actually had a swear jar for the kids. Also another form of gaslighting Dan did was 

Spoiler

Dan came home and laid next to Betty and put his hand on her pillow and she could smell another woman's vagina on his hand. This was when he was still telling her she was crazy for saying he was having an affair with Linda. 

The books explain how Betty was a thin, pretty, terrific, hard working mom before Dan left her for Linda and fell apart. Then she turned into an overweight, foul mouthed, unstable mess.

 

[Annber03]

5 minutes ago, Armchair Critic said:

Also another form of gaslighting Dan did was 

  Hide contents

Dan came home and laid next to Betty and put his hand on her pillow and she could smell another woman's vagina on his hand. This was when he was still telling her she was crazy for saying he was having an affair with Linda. 

 

Oh, my lord. Yeesh. 

[txhorns79]

32 minutes ago, Armchair Critic said:

Also another form of gaslighting Dan did was 

I have to ask, who is the source for stories like that?  If it is something that only involves Dan and Betty, does that mean Betty is the source? 

[Armchair Critic]

3 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

I have to ask, who is the source for stories like that?  If it is something that only involves Dan and Betty, does that mean Betty is the source? 

Yes, the books I read the source was Betty. So I can see why people may question it. Although all the legal crap Dan pulled on her is in writing, there is proof. And conveniently (/sarcasm) some of his records just disappeared.... (Dan had a lot of friends in the court system).

The Meredith Baxter miniseries was approved by Dan's family so it leaned towards villianizing Betty, the books from Betty's account obviously villianize Dan although Betty does not come off as innocent either.

I am enjoying this series though, I just have to put what I know already out of mind and try to enjoy it for what it is. Although I think they should have had the actress who plays Betty get heavier and worse looking as it goes on, Amanda Peet is too thin.

[SuzieQ]

2 hours ago, Armchair Critic said:

Yes, the books I read the source was Betty. So I can see why people may question it. Although all the legal crap Dan pulled on her is in writing, there is proof. And conveniently (/sarcasm) some of his records just disappeared.... (Dan had a lot of friends in the court system).

The Meredith Baxter miniseries was approved by Dan's family so it leaned towards villianizing Betty, the books from Betty's account obviously villianize Dan although Betty does not come off as innocent either.

I am enjoying this series though, I just have to put what I know already out of mind and try to enjoy it for what it is. Although I think they should have had the actress who plays Betty get heavier and worse looking as it goes on, Amanda Peet is too thin.

While I haven't read the books, I remember the Meredith Baxter movies clearly and agree, that they demonized her while this adaption seems to demonize Dan & Linda.  The truth, like most times is probably somewhere in the middle.  Will put my theory in tags even though I would guess not really a spoiler to most.

Spoiler

In real life, Betty could be out on parole by now, but she refuses to admit any wrongdoing.  She has served much more time than she probably deserves due to this.  The fact that after 30 years, she still believes it was justified tells me that she is truly mentally ill at this point and should probably be in a hospital instead of prison.  While I  love these true crime enactments, this is especially sad since she literally let this man drive her off the edge permanently.

 

[pieinmyeye]

I recently started reading Until the Twelfth of Never by Bella Sumbo. I would NEVER condone what Betty did, but between the book and Dirty John, I’m certainly seeing the situation from a different perspective. Betty was a loose cannon, but Dan lit the fuse.

[SuzieQ]

4 hours ago, Armchair Critic said:

. Also another form of gaslighting Dan did was 

  Hide contents

Dan came home and laid next to Betty and put his hand on her pillow and she could smell another woman's vagina on his hand. This was when he was still telling her she was crazy for saying he was having an affair with Linda. 

The books explain how Betty was a thin, pretty, terrific, hard working mom before Dan left her for Linda and fell apart. Then she turned into an overweight, foul mouthed, unstable mess.

WHAT A PIG!

 

[txhorns79]

53 minutes ago, pieinmyeye said:

I would NEVER condone what Betty did, but between the book and Dirty John, I’m certainly seeing the situation from a different perspective. Betty was a loose cannon, but Dan lit the fuse.

I guess it comes down to how you view Betty.   Was she someone whose actions were driven by a cruel husband who tried to drive her crazy, or were her actions driven by her loss of status, entitlement and self-destructive behavior that was more about her and less about Dan.  

Within the show, we saw both.  We saw Dan plotting his divorce while stringing Betty along, then we saw her try to use the kids to punish Dan (to prove her worth and that he couldn't care for them like she could) only to have that backfire spectacularly on her when she lost custody.   

[sadie]

I read Stumbos book and he definitely tortured Betty with legal maneuvering, used his legal connections to manipulate her financially and since Betty was her own worst enemy in not cooperating with any good legal advice this thing was bound to blow up as it did.

To the Dan apologists that doubt he was having an affair with Linda I  will say this: does anyone really believe if Linda was an overweight ugly woman that Dan would have plucked a high school graduate who couldn’t type into his office to do OJT to make her a paralegal. I think not. And if Linda had any character she would have said: until you move out, divorce your wife I will not engage with you maybe this thing would have worked out better. She carried on with a married man with 4 kids for like two years before he “left” his wife. She was no innocent.

I think this episode did a good job showing Betty just wouldn’t accept what was happening, that Dan was actively manipulating her and that Linda was no naive little girl. They were ALL awful people. 

[Persnickety1]

On 6/17/2020 at 6:27 PM, SuzieQ said:

While I haven't read the books, I remember the Meredith Baxter movies clearly and agree, that they demonized her while this adaption seems to demonize Dan & Linda.  The truth, like most times is probably somewhere in the middle.  Will put my theory in tags even though I would guess not really a spoiler to most.

  Hide contents

In real life, Betty could be out on parole by now, but she refuses to admit any wrongdoing.  She has served much more time than she probably deserves due to this.  The fact that after 30 years, she still believes it was justified tells me that she is truly mentally ill at this point and should probably be in a hospital instead of prison.  While I  love these true crime enactments, this is especially sad since she literally let this man drive her off the edge permanently.

 

Spoiler

I agree, Betty will likely never see parole because I don't believe she has any remorse for killing Dan and Linda and likely never will.  I believe she can't even apply for parole now until she's into her 80s after her last denial.  On the other hand, Clara Harris (whose circumstances were eerily similar to Betty's) was paroled a year or so ago after serving 15 years.  

I haven't read all of the books, but I would highly recommend the Stumbo book to anyone who is intrigued by this case.  It's over 700 pages.  I remember I couldn't put it down and finished it off in a single weekend.  

Also, regarding the parenting skills of Dan and Linda:  

Spoiler

I recall several instances in the book about Betty being called because the kids were sent to school sick and, perhaps even worse, filthy.  Between Betty being off her nut and Dan seemingly too preoccupied with Kolkena, those poor kids really went through the wringer.  

 

Edited June 19, 2020 by Persnickety1

[ElectricBoogaloo]

1 hour ago, sadie said:

I think this episode did a good job showing Betty just wouldn’t accept what was happening, that Dan was actively manipulating her and that Linda was no naive little girl. They were ALL awful people. 

I agree and I think that's the point of the Betty Broderick season. Last season had a more clear cut predator (although there were still people blaming Tami Taylor for her predicament) while this season there isn't a protagonist vs antagonist story.

The three main players (Betty, Dan, and Linda) were all selfish assholes who made a series of bad choices over the course of several years. Betty shouldn't have resorted to murder but the fact that she did doesn't erase all the things that Dan did to her. Likewise, Dan shouldn't have snuck around behind his wife's back, cheated on her, and manipulated her so that she would get less money in the divorce but that doesn't justify Betty doing things like going into the house (where she wasn't supposed to be) and smearing cake all over everything.

No one was in the right. They were all behaving terribly and making bad decisions over and over. Pointing out that what one person did is understandable doesn't mean you think everything they did was justified. Pointing out that what another person did was fucked up doesn't mean you think the other person was right. It's not about taking sides. It's about recognizing that when you have three adults being selfish assholes, there are no winners.

[DangerousMinds]

On 6/17/2020 at 2:08 AM, Sessa said:

I do not feel at all sorry for Betty Broderick.  Lots of people get divorced, lots of people have affairs, nothing justifies her behavior. Nothing. She murdered two people, one being the father of her children because she couldn’t handle him leaving her. Her “If I can’t have him no one will” mentality, combined with her unwillingness to take responsibility, or express remorse over the years will garner zero sympathy from me. I also strongly disagree with the characterization of lying about an affair as “Gaslighting” or “ Brainwashing”. Give me a break. I hope she spends the rest of her life in prison.

I mostly agree with you, but what he did to her was textbook gaslighting. Still no excuse for murder.

[lovesnark]

So far, I like Amanda Peet's Betty. She does the desperate crazy quite well. I'm not sure about Christian Slater's Dan, yet. I'm starting to think he'll get better as the story evolves.

All three of them were selfish, greedy assholes who loved money and social status more than anything else, including the four innocent children trapped in the mess. I honestly believe Betty was upset about losing her social status and ability to spend outrageous amounts of money on clothes and knick knacks far more than she was about her husband leaving her for a younger woman.

I was sympathetic to Betty in the beginning. The things Dan did were horrible and Linda seemed to think it was just fine to sleep with a married guy with four kids and do childish things to rub salt into the wound. I think she would have been in Betty's shoes in 10-15 years. Dumped for another young blonde and left to raise the kids they would have had on her own.

But, any sympathy I had for Betty vanished when she dragged her children into her vortex of hate. The things she said, particularly to the two young boys, were so disgusting. I'm sure it wasn't all rainbows and unicorns when they were at their father's house, but nothing I've read suggests they were subjected to anything like the twisted ravings their mother spewed. I'm amazed  the kids grew up and became functional adults.

I finished Stumbo's book last night. One paragraph really stood out (I kept going back and re-reading it) and sums up my feelings quite well. It's from the prosecutor's opening statement during the first trial.

"This case, to put it in the simplest possible terms, is about hate, revenge, and murder. It is about a woman who had so many things going for her that she could have done so much with, like a million dollar home in La Jolla, like a $16,000 a month income, like intelligence and education, friends, four beautiful children. But none of it was enough because she was so consumed by hate."

Betty was smart. She could have come out of the divorce with a tidy sum and made a good life for her and the kids if she had listened to her first lawyer and all of the people around her. Instead, she let hate destroy everything.

 

[poeticlicensed]

25 minutes ago, lovesnark said:

Betty was smart. She could have come out of the divorce with a tidy sum and made a good life for her and the kids if she had listened to her first lawyer and all of the people around her. Instead, she let hate destroy everything.

I recently read an article or listened to an interview (which of course I can't find again), where the person writing surmised that Betty is content in prison, because in Betty's mind, she would rather be locked up and Dan and Linda be dead, than be free while Dan and Linda are still alive. Wow, just wow. 

Edited June 18, 2020 by poeticlicensed

[lovesnark]

23 minutes ago, poeticlicensed said:

I recently read an article or listened to an interview (which of course I can't find again), where the person writing surmised that Betty is content in prison, because in Betty's mind, she would rather be locked up and Dan and Linda be dead, than be free while Dan and Linda still alive. Wow, just wow. 

When Oprah went to Chowchilla and interviewed Betty, she said something similar.

"She finished her performance by agreeing, for the first time ever in a public forum, that, of course, she was sorry that she had killed two people - but, she added in the next breath, revealing more anger and hatred than she ever had, only because Dan and Linda weren't around now to see that "I survived...a little pilot light in me wouldn't give up."

She refused to show any remorse at her parole hearing in 2017, as she has every time she's had a hearing. They told her she can ask again in 2032. She will go to her grave believing she didn't do anything wrong. Not just killing Dan and Linda, but everything. Tormenting her kids, lying about everything, destroying property, all of it. It was all someone else's fault.

Mods, do we need a thread to talk about books, interviews, etc? There is so much out there!

[geauxaway]

3 minutes ago, lovesnark said:

Mods, do we need a thread to talk about books, interviews, etc? There is so much out there!

There’s a Fact vs Fiction thread that might be a good place for that discussion?  

[AZChristian]

10 minutes ago, lovesnark said:

Mods, do we need a thread to talk about books, interviews, etc? There is so much out there!

Anyone can start a new thread.

[Chaos Theory]

I am a huge fan of crime drama Snapped and some of the women who kill their husbands are 100% evil bitches who bitch while others you can kinda understand why it snowballed to murder.     Betty Broderick is one of those cases where it was always going to end with one of them ending up six feet under.   This was three very angry vengeful people not wanting to give an inch.    
 

This was never going to end well.

[Armchair Critic]

I'm rereading the Stumbo book and I kind of laughed to myself because I have left an angry voicemail for my ex husband a time or two that I would be embarrassed if it was played in front of others.

Spoiler

I wouldn't want it played in court like they did to Betty

Actually I am on friendly terms with my ex, our divorce was easy and there was no cheating or anything like that. But if my husband had left me for some young bimbo I'm sure I would go off too (though not as extreme as Betty did!)

 

Edited June 18, 2020 by Armchair Critic

[SuzieQ]

8 hours ago, Persnickety1 said:

  Hide contents

I agree, Betty will likely never see parole because I don't believe she has any remorse for killing Dan and Linda and likely never will.  I believe she can't even apply for parole now until she's into her 80s after her last denial.  On the other hand, Clara Harris (whose circumstances were eerily similar to Betty's) was paroled a year or so ago after serving 15 years.  

I haven't read all of the books, but I would highly recommend the Stumbo book to anyone who is intrigued by this case.  It's over 700 pages.  I remember I couldn't put it down and finished it off in a single weekend.  

 

 

Thanks!!  I will have to check that book out.  Also the Clara Harris case which I am not familiar with.

[chick binewski]

On 6/17/2020 at 8:41 AM, poeticlicensed said:

I am glad that Linda is being portrayed as not so innocent, as she was in the other movie and in books. She set her sights on  Dan and went for it, wife and kids be damned. The rat thing killed me. Seriously, if I came home and found my house infested with rats, I would expect my husband to come home to help me deal with it, I don't care how important he is. 

 

On 6/17/2020 at 10:02 AM, Persnickety1 said:

Ugh.  (IIRC, in the book and in the Lifetime movie, one of his long-term workers resigned over the whole tawdry mess.  I missed about 10 minutes of last night's episode, so maybe they covered that incident.)

 

On 6/17/2020 at 12:39 PM, txhorns79 said:

Yes, in the tv movie (which I think originally aired on CBS), Dan's longtime assistant (played by Debra Jo Rupp!) quits because she doesn't like what is going on between Dan and Linda.  I think the tv movie was a lot more vague as to whether Dan and Linda were having an affair, suggesting it, but not outright saying it. 

As a junkie of the two Lifetime movies the scene with Rupp always has an effect on me. It's the only time anyone (besides Betty, obvi) calls Dan Broderick out - and does so calmly and directly without addressing the affair. The movies did not show any behavior that we're seeing from Dan & Linda in DJ and the scene feels like a tiny indicator of behavior the Broderick/Kolkena families weren't eager to recognize.

I'm interested in this version more than I thought I'd be; but even though it's showing Dan & Linda in a less favorable light and Peet is missing the boisterousness & caustic hardness of Betty it has something in common with the movies - it's pretty much ignoring that Betty needed professional help for several years. While Dan may or may not have helped push Betty over the edge, I think it speaks volumes that the first thing her mom & dad did when she crashed the car was to go back to the east coast and never return. The only person who really advocated for doctor's care as I understand it was her daughter Kim. 

 

[lovesnark]

38 minutes ago, chick binewski said:

 

 

As a junkie of the two Lifetime movies the scene with Rupp always has an effect on me. It's the only time anyone (besides Betty, obvi) calls Dan Broderick out - and does so calmly and directly without addressing the affair. The movies did not show any behavior that we're seeing from Dan & Linda in DJ and the scene feels like a tiny indicator of behavior the Broderick/Kolkena families weren't eager to recognize.

I'm interested in this version more than I thought I'd be; but even though it's showing Dan & Linda in a less favorable light and Peet is missing the boisterousness & caustic hardness of Betty it has something in common with the movies - it's pretty much ignoring that Betty needed professional help for several years. While Dan may or may not have helped push Betty over the edge, I think it speaks volumes that the first thing her mom & dad did when she crashed the car was to go back to the east coast and never return. The only person who really advocated for doctor's care as I understand it was her daughter Kim. 

 

I'm going to comment on this in the 'Fact vs Fiction' thread.

[teapot]

Any RHOC peeps here?  I was reminded of Shannon Beador.  Luckily, she got over it, took her sweet settlement & her beautiful daughters & dog (Archie!), lost the weight & got on with it

[PradaKitty]

I have watched the other movies and am finding this version to show more of Betty’s side of the story. The early years with her supporting Dan through medical school only to be told by Dr. Dan that he now wants to go to law school and he would need her support through that, was really a punch in the gut to Betty. And then, he would never let her refer to their “hungry years” once “he” had made it. She thought of them as a team while he didn’t think of her at all. 
 

...and it only got worse. 

[Showthyme]

Dan wanted to forget from where he came and discard any reminder of it, including Betty. Dan didn’t want anyone to know of his early struggle or the fact that he and Betty could barely make ends meet.

Dan just seemed cruel. 
 

Betty didn’t want to stay with the same attorney or follow anyone’s advice because she didn’t want the interaction with Dan to end. Even arguing and drama is contact.

 

[Razzberry]

On 6/17/2020 at 6:27 PM, SuzieQ said:

 

  Hide contents

In real life, Betty could be out on parole by now, but she refuses to admit any wrongdoing.  She has served much more time than she probably deserves due to this.  The fact that after 30 years, she still believes it was justified tells me that she is truly mentally ill at this point and should probably be in a hospital instead of prison.  While I  love these true crime enactments, this is especially sad since she literally let this man drive her off the edge permanently.

 

Narcissists never admit they're wrong, so this fits.  She was diagnosed as narcissistic with a histrionic personality.  Dan didn't cause it, but leaving a narcissist is not something you do and get away with.  It's not a mental illness that can be treated.  They know right from wrong, they just don't care.

[SuzieQ]

15 hours ago, Razzberry said:

Narcissists never admit they're wrong, so this fits.  She was diagnosed as narcissistic with a histrionic personality.  Dan didn't cause it, but leaving a narcissist is not something you do and get away with.  It's not a mental illness that can be treated.  They know right from wrong, they just don't care.

I would think Betty, Dan and Linda all suffered from this.  The only innocents were the kids.  Lots of carnage on them.  Even if Betty didn't do what she did, those kids had a rough road!

[PepSinger]

Can someone explain to me how buying the house in La Jolla, the one Dan never intended to live, screwed over Betty? Did he put the house in her name?

[geauxaway]

4 minutes ago, PepSinger said:

Can someone explain to me how buying the house in La Jolla, the one Dan never intended to live, screwed over Betty? Did he put the house in her name?

I think *think* it was smaller and older.  She mentioned it being a tear down.  The land, location and view were exceptional.  But the actual house was not to the standard Betty had become accustomed to.  

[chocolatine]

1 hour ago, PepSinger said:

Can someone explain to me how buying the house in La Jolla, the one Dan never intended to live, screwed over Betty? Did he put the house in her name?

If I understood correctly from Dan's conversation with his divorce lawyer, that's how he was able to sneakily establish a separation without Betty immediately realizing. He led her to believe that they would all move together, but had actually never intended to live there.

I also think that might have helped Dan establish a claim to their first (much nicer) house, by making it look like Betty deliberately abandoned the family home, though I'm not 100% clear on that part.

[Armchair Critic]

Link to a sample of Telling On Myself book by Betty Broderick

https://read.amazon.com/?asin=B00VFHO47M

Edited June 21, 2020 by Armchair Critic