S05.E09: Monsters and Heroes

[Athena]

Quote

When Jamie is bitten by a venomous snake, Claire fears she may not have the resources to save him.

Reminder: The is the book talk thread. This can include spoilers for ALL the books. If you wish to remain unspoiled for any of the books, please leave now and head to the No Book Talk episode thread.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Oh they better not FUCK UP the scenes when Jamie gets bitten by a snake! It was my favorite scene from the buik and gave me THE FEELS!!!!

[Clawdette]

 

22 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Oh they better not FUCK UP the scenes when Jamie gets bitten by a snake! It was my favorite scene from the buik and gave me THE FEELS!!!!

GHScorpiosRule, write about the scene in our Favorite Scenes from the Books Thread!

[GHScorpiosRule]

ARGHHHHHHHHH!!!!

They FUCKED IT UP!🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬

I dinna care that they used half of the dialogue from the buik, which I reread right before the episode. And I’d forgotten that Jem is supposed to be a red headed tyke and not a blonde! That Marsali is just starting her third pregnancy, not ready to pop and give birth like she did.

AAAAAND!! Jamie was bitten at his lower CALF!!!! Not his upper thigh!!🤬🤬🤬

Roger didn’t leave Jamie. And their conversation didn’t ALL revolve around that bastard Bonnet!

I wanted that conversation about if Jamie was going to die or not; were they fated with no choice? The talk about how Jamie and Claire thought about killing Charles Stuart.

The dialogue was all out of order, and DAMMIT!!! I wanted and needed to see Jamie weep silently!!!

And Claire was supposed to be PISSED that Jamie tried to will himself to die; not be all calm and understanding.

At least we were spared Claire Slitting the Bison’s throat.
Takes a DEEEEEEEP breath.
 

That said, Sam was FUCKING FANTASTIC!!! His performance was right up there with his post Culloden episodes from Season Three.🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰

Jamie and Claire’s scenes were the BEST. 

And we got more Fergus!!🥰🥰🥰

Edited April 20, 2020 by GHScorpiosRule

[rxpert14]

Caitriona Balfe, bravo! Her tears, her chin, her trembling hands, her begging Jamie not to die. I'm unwell.

[anamika]

Jamie and Roger finally talk.

Roger should have tried to get Jamie back immediately instead of spending the night there. He kept telling Jamie to rest ... Like how does one rest when dying from a snake bite yo. Though I guess walking at night is impossible if he did not know the way in daytime.

How did their horses run off? Did they not tie them.

Rollo gave Jamie a good lick.

Claire talking about autopsies. Jamie is right... she should work on her bedside manner.

A wild bison appears! Sorry, but I laughed when it flipped Bree over! Jamie crawling out naked added to the hilarity. 

Young Ian giving Jamie a good talking to... 👍

Fergus and Ian. Roger and Ian. Some nice scenes with the younger men.

Engineer Bree to the rescue making a syringe out of snake fangs. Damn.

Some nice character moments overall.

Edited April 19, 2020 by anamika

[cardigirl]

One of my favorite episodes of the series. So well done. Loved every moment of it. Sorry book readers, it's so hard to condense books into movies/television shows, but this was good television in my opinion. And everyone played their part. 

I did have some moments where I wondered:  how did Roger make the 'sled'?  Where was Roger's horse?  And when the three men went back to find them, why didn't they take 2 extra horses for them?  

I was rather upset with with Lizzy too, for not being more protective of Jemmy and just freezing when she saw the buffalo, but Bree at least knew that she had to draw the critter away from her child! 

I will happily rewatch this episode more than once or twice. This season has been great! 

[Eureka]

10 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

ARGHHHHHHHHH!!!!

They FUCKED IT UP!🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬

I dinna care that they used half of the dialogue from the buik, which I reread right before the episode. And I’d forgotten that Jem is supposed to be a red headed tyke and not a blonde! That Marsali is just starting her third pregnancy, not ready to pop and give birth like she did.

AAAAAND!! Jamie was bitten at his lower CALF!!!! Not his upper thigh!!🤬🤬🤬

Roger didn’t leave Jamie. And their conversation didn’t ALL revolve around that bastard Bonnett!

I wanted that conversation about if Jamie was going to die or not; were they fated with no choice? The talk about how Jamie and Claire thought about killing Charles Stuart.

The dialogue was all out of order, and DAMMIT!!! I wanted and needed to see Jamie weep silently!!!

And Claire was supposed to be PISSED that Jamie tried to will himself to die; not be all calm and understanding.

At least we were spared Claire Slitting the Bison’s throat.
Takes a DEEEEEEEP breath.
 

That said, Sam was FUCKING FANTASTIC!!! His performance was right up there with his post Culloden episodes from Season Three.🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰

Jamie and Claire’s scenes were the BEST. 

And we got more Fergus!!🥰🥰🥰

Reading your post was like whiplash, lol. I said the same thing to myself last episode - wasn’t Jemmy supposed to be a redhead.

[Quickbeam]

5 hours ago, anamika said:

A wild bison appears! Sorry, but I laughed when it flipped Bree over! 

Best Sophie moment yet ( yes I realize it was a stunt person....)

[GHScorpiosRule]

Other thoughts:

Even though they’ve gone off-buik so we got Kezzie, Ian, and Fergus joining the hunt, instead of the Lindays and Fergus and some other guy whose name is escaping me, they still could have stuck to 99% of what happened in the buik during and after the snake bite.

Jamie* telling Roger to follow the wind/blowing west to take them back to the Ridge? That line was from him telling the men which way to go when they split up to hunt!

And I don’t see why the entire settlement went searching for maggots instead of just Bree. The stuipid Bonnet conversation between her and Roger could have been spent on Kezzie bringing Claire the rattlesnake in the bag with the idea to use its blood to save Jamie.

And it was the ball that Jamie shot into the Bison’s ASS that provided the maggots that saved him. I REALLY wanted to see that.

The conversation about Bonnet lacked the mention of Innes, who would also help Roger.

And I really, really REALLY wanted Jamie holding Jem after Claire and Bree had injected him with the pure penicillin. Show KNOWS Sam holding bebes and toddlers is catnip to viewers ME!!!

Again, all that aside, I did love it, especially Sam and Cait’s performances. Even if writing that makes it seem I’m contradicting myself.

At least Wee Ian is back to calling Claire “Auntie Claire”, though I wish that Marsali would call her “Mother Claire.” 

*Yes, I’m nitpicking but I dinna care. Just two or three lines they excluded COULD HAVE been put in without sacrificing what they put out.

Edited April 20, 2020 by GHScorpiosRule

[Cdh20]

37 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Other thoughts:

 

Show KNOWS Sam holding bebes is catnip to viewers ME!!!

 

 

Me too! I thought the show knew that in season 2  & 3, but they’ve forgotten.

[shelen]

Love the emotionally intimate scenes between Claire and Jaime.

And Claire obviously has an, ahem........healing touch.  Brought him back alright.

[Haleth]

Loved Ian “Is that what you told my father?”  

[nodorothyparker]

Sigh.  That was an awful lot of time devoted to plotting/cajoling to kill Stephen Bonnet.  The actors, I think, did a lot with what they were given to work with, but does Jamie seriously not have any other track this season except wanting to kill Bonnet or whoever happens to be an issue for him that week?    He believes he may be dying and that's still the biggest thing on his mind?  One of his primary concerns in the book at the same point is that Roger promise him to take the whole lot of them back to the future as soon as it can be managed because without Jamie's protection they and Claire especially stick out enough they'll be in danger.  But instead we get the speed reader version of that along with what may be Jamie's departing thoughts on each of his loved ones so they can circle back again and again to KILL BONNET.  Again, sigh.  

Ian's tough love act with Jamie calling him out was terrific, and I was quite glad to see they hadn't forgotten Fergus' situation.  That's easily the most lines/screentime that character has had in awhile although I do wish they'd given him at least a short scene with Jamie too as the only father he's ever had. Loved the brief callback to "a man of leisure."

I'm assuming they were going for something more visual than the book version of Jamie wounding the buffalo and Bree finishing it off when it showed up in the yard, but it mostly ended up just being too silly for words.  Sure, Claire's a big buffalo killer now and Bree skips like a rock across a pond with nary a messed up hip or bruise to show for it.

The dark teal paint in Jamie and Claire's bedroom is distracting, especially in an episode that prominently threw in scenes about indigo dye, but then that entire house bears little actual resemblance to any house that would have existed in that part of the backwoods in that time period anyway.

[sas616]

2 hours ago, Cdh20 said:

Me too! I thought the show knew that in season 2  & 3, but they’ve forgotten.

But I don't think it is to Sam.

[sas616]

20 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

AAAAAND!! Jamie was bitten at his lower CALF!!!! Not his upper thigh!!🤬🤬🤬

Someone just commented on this on one of the Outlander FB pages.   The snake could not bite his calf because Jamie is wearing boots. Unlikely the bite would go through the leather boot.  The person commented that they wondered how it was possible when reading the book.  

[SassAndSnacks]

Never have I gagged so much during an episode of Outlander and never have I cried so much during an episode of Outlander. That was SO good. 

I have an irrational, yet mortal fear of snakes. When I read this part in the book, I didn’t sleep after. I think I’ll be ok tonight because 1. The snake looked blatantly fake; and 2. The episode was so freaking good. 

Loved:

- More Ian!

- FERGUS!!!! With more than 1 line!!!!! And holding babies!!!!!

- Bonding between Jamie and Roger!

- And of course, Claire and all of the emotions and the dialogue with Jamie, and just holy shit, those two are so great portraying this story. 

Did this just become my favorite episode?

[Cdh20]

6 minutes ago, SassAndSnacks said:

Never have I gagged so much during an episode of Outlander and never have I cried so much during an episode of Outlander. That was SO good. 

I have an irrational, yet mortal fear of snakes. When I read this part in the book, I didn’t sleep after. I think I’ll be ok tonight because 1. The snake looked blatantly fake; and 2. The episode was so freaking good. 

Loved:

- More Ian!

- FERGUS!!!! With more than 1 line!!!!! And holding babies!!!!!

- Bonding between Jamie and Roger!

- And of course, Claire and all of the emotions and the dialogue with Jamie, and just holy shit, those two are so great portraying this story. 

Did this just become my favorite episode?

This season might have us rethinking our top 10? 

Edited April 20, 2020 by Cdh20
Spelling

[WatchrTina]

21 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I dinna care that they used half of the dialogue from the buik, which I reread right before the episode.

Why?  WHY would you do that?  You set yourself up to be frustrated because of COURSE they have to condense the action.  Put. The. Book. Down.  🙂

 

21 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

At least we were spared Claire Slitting the Bison’s throat.

But I LOVE that moment!  And we'd seen the hacksaw -- it was right there, waiting to be used for the throat cutting, like Chekov's gun.   I'm annoyed we missed out on seeing that (though I supposed filming it realistically would have been tricky and it would have been quite gruesome.)

 

21 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

That said, Sam was FUCKING FANTASTIC!!! His performance was right up there with his post Culloden episodes from Season Three.

Jamie and Claire’s scenes were the BEST. 

And we got more Fergus!!

I agree on all three points.

 

14 hours ago, anamika said:

Claire talking about autopsies. Jamie is right... she should work on her bedside manner.

The look on Jamie's face at that point was priceless.  I had to laugh even given the seriousness of the topic.

 

12 hours ago, cardigirl said:

When the three men went back to find them, why didn't they take 2 extra horses for them?  

I assumed that having to guide riderless horses would slow them down and they wanted to move quickly.

 

3 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

It was the ball that Jamie shot into the Bison’s ASS that provided the maggots that saved him. I REALLY wanted to see that.

I did too but actually it probably made more sense for the men to have found a rotting rabbit because there really hadn't been enough time for blowflies to have found the wounded buffalo and laid their eggs in the wound, and for the eggs to mature into maggots.  It made sense in the book but in the show the passage of time felt faster.  Also it gave the other characters something to do in the episode.

 

1 hour ago, nodorothyparker said:

Sigh.  That was an awful lot of time devoted to plotting/cajoling to kill Stephen Bonnet.  The actors, I think, did a lot with what they were given to work with, but does Jamie seriously not have any other track this season except wanting to kill Bonnet or whoever happens to be an issue for him that week?    He believes he may be dying and that's still the biggest thing on his mind? 

That, alas, feels true to the book because one of the things I remember most about this particular book (many years after reading it) is the pall the specter of Stephen Bonnet casts over the whole thing. (That's also the reason this is possibly my least favorite of the books.)  That being said . . . yeah those conversations felt a bit shoe-horned into the ep.  

I also found myself thinking "Oh, there's a bit of foreshadowing about Roger's spiritual awakening" and "Oh, there's a bit of clarification about Roger's deeply conflicted feelings with regard to vengeance."  I wish I'd just been swept away by the episode rather than getting all analytical like that.  But that may just be my lot as a book-reader.  

Note, I don't think anyone watching this show  -- even the non-readers -- really thought Jamie was going to die or have his leg amputated, but dammed if they didn't succeed in making me feel quite anxious on that point.

Bottom line . . . that episode was just grueling.  I'm exhausted from the drama (and I knew what was going to happen.)  Bravo to Sam . . . I was having flashbacks to his Wentworth prison performance.  It was that good.

Edited April 20, 2020 by WatchrTina

[SoTheresThat]

1 hour ago, nodorothyparker said:

Sigh.  That was an awful lot of time devoted to plotting/cajoling to kill Stephen Bonnet.  The actors, I think, did a lot with what they were given to work with, but does Jamie seriously not have any other track this season except wanting to kill Bonnet or whoever happens to be an issue for him that week?    He believes he may be dying and that's still the biggest thing on his mind?  One of his primary concerns in the book at the same point is that Roger promise him to take the whole lot of them back to the future as soon as it can be managed because without Jamie's protection they and Claire especially stick out enough they'll be in danger.  But instead we get the speed reader version of that along with what may be Jamie's departing thoughts on each of his loved ones so they can circle back again and again to KILL BONNET.  Again, sigh.  

Ian's tough love act with Jamie calling him out was terrific, and I was quite glad to see they hadn't forgotten Fergus' situation.  That's easily the most lines/screentime that character has had in awhile although I do wish they'd given him at least a short scene with Jamie too as the only father he's ever had. Loved the brief callback to "a man of leisure."

I'm assuming they were going for something more visual than the book version of Jamie wounding the buffalo and Bree finishing it off when it showed up in the yard, but it mostly ended up just being too silly for words.  Sure, Claire's a big buffalo killer now and Bree skips like a rock across a pond with nary a messed up hip or bruise to show for it.

The dark teal paint in Jamie and Claire's bedroom is distracting, especially in an episode that prominently threw in scenes about indigo dye, but then that entire house bears little actual resemblance to any house that would have existed in that part of the backwoods in that time period anyway.

The big house aggravates me so much.  It's just too fancy.  Where would they have gotten the craftsmen needed to do all that woodwork? 

I know we're not supposed to harp on "but in the book...", but in the book the big house barely had glass in the windows.

[GHScorpiosRule]

9 minutes ago, WatchrTina said:

Why?  WHY would you do that?  You set yourself up to be frustrated because of COURSE they have to condense the action.  Put. The. Book. Down.  🙂

Sae I would ken wot I was bitching aboot, as proof of them fucking it up!🤪😆😆

I didn’t mind the condensing of the action-just the leaving out of all the dialogue that made those scenes. But Especially leaving out Jamie quietly weeping. We all ken that Sam would have done an excellent job with that.

And if the promos are to be believed,

Bonnet will BITE IT, next week!🙌🙌🙌

.

[ruby24]

So, I'd say they did more justice to the snakebite than they did Roger's hanging. This was pretty much exactly how I remembered it from the book.

I liked that they gave Fergus that speech. God, I wish they could make more use of him somehow. They'd have to make stuff up, because he's just in the background through so much of these later books (although I think he gets some more material in Book 8, and maybe some of Book 6). 

[theschnauzers]

I’ll post more coherently after I get time to rewatched, but I’ll point out how Ian gave Jamie a piece of his mind that was long in coming, and how Ian is an adult who loves his family just as much as Jamie. Old Ian wouldn’t have been able to do it any better.

The episode itself makes it three for three. I don’t know what happened in the writers room, but dang, these three episodes, separately or together has been among the best of the series. 

Edited April 20, 2020 by theschnauzers

[Haleth]

10 hours ago, shelen said:

Love the emotionally intimate scenes between Claire and Jaime.

And Claire obviously has an, ahem........healing touch.  Brought him back alright.

Yeah, that made me roll my eyes in both the show and the book.  Really, Diana?

 

 

Edited April 20, 2020 by Haleth

[SassAndSnacks]

9 hours ago, Cdh20 said:

This season might have us rethinking our top 10? 

For sure!  Or maybe make it a Top 12...Top 15?

9 hours ago, SoTheresThat said:

The big house aggravates me so much.  It's just too fancy.  Where would they have gotten the craftsmen needed to do all that woodwork? 

Agreed.  Mini-quibble about this adaptation, but I do find the poverty-stricken, struggling to get by Frasers slightly more endearing.  

[AD55]

5 hours ago, theschnauzers said:

I’ll post more coherently after I get time to rewatched, but I’ll point out how Ian gave Jamie a piece of his mind that was long in coming, and how Ian is an adult who loves his family just as much as Jamie. Old Ian wouldn’t have been able to do it any better.

The episode itself makes it three for three. I don’t know what happened in the writers room, but dang, these three episodes, separately or together has been among the best of the series. 

All of this. I keep thinking about what it would have been like for Ian the Older if he'd heard what Jamie had to say about losing a leg. And if Jenny had been there, he'd have had a lot more to worry about than losing a leg.

I hope they don't spend more than one more episode on the endless Bonnet saga. Please, writers, just kill him off. I don't much care who does it (I hated the way it played out in the book), but I'd rather Roger not be portrayed as weak and incompetent. I'm hoping that's been put to rest.

[iMonrey]

I haven't read past the first book but I was fairly confident Jamie wasn't going to die, so that was rather anticlimactic. On the other hand, I wasn't quite sure they wouldn't go through with cutting his leg off once it got down to the wire.

It seems to me that if Claire can invent penicillin she ought to be able to invent a hypodermic needle. Anything you can hollow out and then sharpen down to a point should do the trick.

[GHScorpiosRule]

12 hours ago, sas616 said:

Someone just commented on this on one of the Outlander FB pages.   The snake could not bite his calf because Jamie is wearing boots. Unlikely the bite would go through the leather boot.  The person commented that they wondered how it was possible when reading the book.  

I don't care. It was in the buik, so it's coming from the source material. Stick to it. If they can do other stuff that goes under "it wouldn't happen during this time", then they can stick to the source material.

I ken I'm nitpicking, but it's not as if this scene was like the 100 or so pages of the Day That Never Ended.

In the buik, we never got to "see" how Jamie ended up back at the Ridge. Right after Jamie's "I meant it", the next chapter opens up with Claire's "This is the most bizarre thing I've ever seen" or whatever she said. So I get for the show, why they included scenes of Roger trying to get Jamie home.

14 hours ago, shelen said:

And Claire obviously has an, ahem........healing touch.  Brought him back alright.

4 hours ago, Haleth said:

Yeah, that made me roll my eyes in both the show and the book.  Really, Diana?

 

 

Okay, maybe I misread it, but it seemed to me, that Claire gave him the...hell, we're all adults here, she gave him a hand job. But not to bring him back to life. He was still breathing. And he asked her to touch him.  It wasn't until after, or the next morning, she hit him or shoved him and accused him of willing himself to die. And Jamie explained the "space in between" and how "dying was harder" after that. IF the writer had written the script with the dialogue IN ORDER, it would make sense!

But the way it was portrayed in the show? Yeah, a big 🙄 from me.

Oh, the horror! Jamie proves himself to be a flawed human being! Aye, I'm a Jamie apologist. Sue me. He's allowed to have moments of self-pity/selfishness considering the state he was in when he was being his stubborn arse self. But he came around in the end, didn't he? And there was no Wee Ian in the buik or that conversation when he did.

Jamie and Claire are my favorite characters because Sam and Cait have brought them to life for me. And it's for them that I'm continuing with this show. Sam's the reason I decided to give this show a look.  I don't care about anybody else as much as I do them. Fergus and Marsali are a close second.

 

[toolazy]

12 hours ago, SoTheresThat said:

The big house aggravates me so much.  It's just too fancy.  Where would they have gotten the craftsmen needed to do all that woodwork? 

I know we're not supposed to harp on "but in the book...", but in the book the big house barely had glass in the windows.

 

There is no way that a house in the wilderness would be that fancy.  But then this is a problem with that this show has had since the beginning.  Lallybroch is a farmhouse, not a mansion.  The Big House, while not necessarily a farm house, is far from being a mansion.  

The surgery was light-filled and modern. It didn't look like a re-creation of medieval surgery.  

 

I dunno, I'm really happy that the set designer has left the show but I guess the damage is already done.

[Aliceinwondrbra]

I noticed in the scene with Fergus, Marsali, and the kids, it looked like the actor was wearing a glove over his hand to stand in for his prosthesis. Usually it looks like there is a real wood piece there. It caught my eye because it looked like he was holding the little actress firmly (looked like his real hand). I’m guessing for the baby’s safety they needed him to be able to actually hold her. Or am I crazy and he’s always wearing something that fits over his hand rather than a prosthetic. 

[shelen]

Re the surgery being light filled and modern:

Claire is a 20th century physician.  I'm sure she had the surgery area built specifically to capture the best possible light and have all equipment/supplies designated just so for optimal usage. 

Being Claire, I'd expect no less.  And being Jaime's wife, I'm sure the craftsmen built it anyway she wanted it.

[SassAndSnacks]

8 minutes ago, shelen said:

Claire is a 20th century physician.  I'm sure she had the surgery area built specifically to capture the best possible light and have all equipment/supplies designated just so for optimal usage. 

Being Claire, I'd expect no less.  And being Jaime's wife, I'm sure the craftsmen built it anyway she wanted it.

I think there’s a line in one of the books, probably Fiery Cross, where Jamie mentions that he gave her surgery the best light, that it was faced a certain direction (south perhaps?) so that she had the best light throughout the day. It was intentional. He’d seen her work so often by candlelight or poor lighting that he knew she needed better lighting. 

 

[Cdh20]

I loved this episode! Every scene & interaction was wonderfully done by the actors. I have made a decision to read the books after each season ( I was a show fan first) & I think it is serving me well- I have no expectations, so judge the episode on its own merits. Then  when  I read it I may like some stuff  more but it hadn’t Diminished my watching!  Something to think about for those of you reading the book right before or simultaneously?? 

[toolazy]

32 minutes ago, shelen said:

Re the surgery being light filled and modern:

Claire is a 20th century physician.  I'm sure she had the surgery area built specifically to capture the best possible light and have all equipment/supplies designated just so for optimal usage. 

Being Claire, I'd expect no less.  And being Jaime's wife, I'm sure the craftsmen built it anyway she wanted it.

Exactly.  And Claire wouldn't have designed it that way.  

[SassAndSnacks]

20 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Oh, the horror! Jamie proves himself to be a flawed human being! Aye, I'm a Jamie apologist. Sue me. He's allowed to have moments of self-pity/selfishness considering the state he was in when he was being his stubborn arse self. But he came around in the end, didn't he? And there was no Wee Ian in the buik or that conversation when he did.

This!  This is part of what makes Jamie JAMMF.  He's flawed and imperfect.  He wouldn't be nearly as interesting or relatable if he said everything he was always supposed to say and did everything he was always supposed to do.  I thought him fighting to keep his leg was very much within the fiber of who he is, no matter if we thought it was warranted or not.  Frasers are stubborn, ye ken?

Though Wee Ian didn't lecture him in the book, I thought it worked here. Aaaaannnnnd, I just love John Bell, so I'll take whatever they want to give me with him.  

[pootlus]

My main thought during this episode was that Claire clearly has magic tits like Elliot in that episode of Scrubs.

My other thoughts included that this show needs more Fergus and Marsali.  Still, it was a very decent episode - I've been enjoying this season for the most part - was dreading it in a way because of how interminable the book was.

[tennisgurl]

I really liked that episode, and was very emotionally engaged throughout and was super happy to see so many great character interactions (Jamie and Roger! Young Ian and Fergus! Claire and Jamie! Fergus and Anyone really!) but...that freaking buffalo just killed me. That effect was...not flawless to say the least. Then when the camera zeroed in on the buffalo, and it was just like "oh, were you talking to me? Ok guess I can chase you" then Bree goes over the top of the Buffalo like a bucking bull at a western themed bar, it was pretty hilarious. 

But other than that, I really liked this episode, and I have really found this season to be a step up from the last few in general. Everything with Jamie was often frustrating, but was also true to character (Jamie has also been rather prideful and struggled with showing "weakness") and I really liked Young Ian reading him the riot act. What about his father indeed, Jamie. I missed Young Ian so much, I am so glad he is back again. The stuff with him and Roger was quite good as well, nice to see them bond a bit, even if it was over possibly killing Stephen Bonnet. I also loved Roger making a break for it when Claire arrived, seeing that he and Young Ian had moved Jamie without her knowledge and against her medical advice. 

We even got to see Fergus have a nice scene, its been so long since the poor guy got anything to do, and now they even remember a bunch of his backstory and even have a call back to the whole men of leisure talk from ages ago! I love it!

[Linderhill]

5 hours ago, pootlus said:

Still, it was a very decent episode - I've been enjoying this season for the most part - was dreading it in a way because of how interminable the book was.

Me too, and this particular event was one of those I was dreading.  I remember when I originally read this book this part seemed to go on forever.  

It hasn't bothered me that Fergus hasn't had much to do because I'd come to expect that in the book.  Diana has kept adding characters over the years so its not surprising that some are backburnered.  While I like Cesar, Fergus was never one of my favorites.  The whole Roger and Bri show takeover always has annoyed me.  I didn't start liking Brianna until later in the series.  

I agree with those that don't like the fancy big house.  It seems more contemporary with modern day houses than a colony house in North Carolina in the 1700's.  

[Ziggy]

On 4/20/2020 at 10:21 AM, GHScorpiosRule said:

Oh, the horror! Jamie proves himself to be a flawed human being! Aye, I'm a Jamie apologist. Sue me. He's allowed to have moments of self-pity/selfishness considering the state he was in when he was being his stubborn arse self. But he came around in the end, didn't he? And there was no Wee Ian in the buik or that conversation when he did.

I don't think I understand your point, here.  I love it that we get to see Jamie being human.  Of course he's allowed to have moments like this, and who wouldn't if they were faced with that situation?  Do feel as though Jamie is somehow being criticized for not handling it perfectly, or are you just annoyed because you felt the show made it seem like he wouldn't have come around if Ian hadn't said anything?

[GHScorpiosRule]

4 minutes ago, Ziggy said:

I don't think I understand your point, here.  I love it that we get to see Jamie being human.  Of course he's allowed to have moments like this, and who wouldn't if they were faced with that situation?  Do feel as though Jamie is somehow being criticized for not handling it perfectly, or are you just annoyed because you felt the show made it seem like he wouldn't have come around if Ian hadn't said anything?

I'm defending Jamie's behavior. A lot of folks are going 'rah!rah!" damn straight Jamie deserved Wee Ian telling him what for. As if Jamie is supposed to be a perfect person with no flaws, not allowed to be selfish or feel sorry for himself.

And I'm saying he was showing himself to be the flawed person he is. He's not some specimen of perfection. 

[Ziggy]

5 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I'm defending Jamie's behavior. A lot of folks are going 'rah!rah!" damn straight Jamie deserved Wee Ian telling him what for. As if Jamie is supposed to be a perfect person with no flaws, not allowed to be selfish or feel sorry for himself.

And I'm saying he was showing himself to be the flawed person he is. He's not some specimen of perfection. 

I guess I don't see those two things as mutually exclusive.

[Ziggy]

5 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

We even got to see Fergus have a nice scene, its been so long since the poor guy got anything to do, and now they even remember a bunch of his backstory and even have a call back to the whole men of leisure talk from ages ago! I love it!

The way Fergus was talking in that scene, it made me wonder if they will back off on Fergus not really pulling his weight in the family.  We've already seen him with the kids quite a bit.  He and Marsali seem to have a more equal relationship.

[SassAndSnacks]

13 hours ago, Ziggy said:

The way Fergus was talking in that scene, it made me wonder if they will back off on Fergus not really pulling his weight in the family.  We've already seen him with the kids quite a bit.  He and Marsali seem to have a more equal relationship.

I hope so.  

18 hours ago, Linderhill said:

The whole Roger and Bri show takeover always has annoyed me.  I didn't start liking Brianna until later in the series. 

So glad you said this.  Thought it was only me.  I just can't get into Bree.  I like Roger when he is with others, but when the two are together, no thanks.  

[jenn31]

19 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I'm defending Jamie's behavior. A lot of folks are going 'rah!rah!" damn straight Jamie deserved Wee Ian telling him what for. As if Jamie is supposed to be a perfect person with no flaws, not allowed to be selfish or feel sorry for himself.

And I'm saying he was showing himself to be the flawed person he is. He's not some specimen of perfection. 

Of course everyone has flaws. But we all complain about flaws, don’t we? You’re not going to complain about someone who reacted the right way. His reaction was selfish and he should be called on it. I was actually surprised Claire didn’t lace into him for it. Seems out of character for her not to have. 

 

[cardigirl]

41 minutes ago, jenn31 said:

Of course everyone has flaws. But we all complain about flaws, don’t we? You’re not going to complain about someone who reacted the right way. His reaction was selfish and he should be called on it. I was actually surprised Claire didn’t lace into him for it. Seems out of character for her not to have. 

 

I think it was because she was so scared. Jamie himself said he knew how bad off he was because she wasn't yelling at him.   

[jenn31]

47 minutes ago, cardigirl said:

I think it was because she was so scared. Jamie himself said he knew how bad off he was because she wasn't yelling at him.   

True. But she probably would have yelled at him once he was better. It just seemed off to me. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

39 minutes ago, jenn31 said:

True. But she probably would have yelled at him once he was better. It just seemed off to me. 

She did. in the buik. In my post after watching the episode, I mentioned how Claire was too calm and understanding. She shoved and nearly pushed Jamie off the bed the next morning when she realized he was trying to "die" the night before.

[CountryGirl]

I really enjoyed this episode as a whole, but my favorite part was the scene with Fergus and Ian.

It's about time Cesar got more than a line, let alone more than one scene.

Also, a befuddled, baby-toting Fergus is amazing.

And I'm one of the few Bree fans but this tickled me.

Adso being adorable:

[areca]

On 4/19/2020 at 11:16 AM, cardigirl said:

I did have some moments where I wondered:  how did Roger make the 'sled'?  

The 'sled' is (theoretically) a travois, and a regular part of Native American toolsets.  He undoubtedly learned to build one when he was forced to as the Indians' slave.  Interestingly, they were often pulled by by a dog(face).  It's made wrong, but they tried.

Edited April 23, 2020 by areca

[cardigirl]

10 hours ago, areca said:

The 'sled' is (theoretically) a travois, and a regular part of Native American toolsets.  He undoubtedly learned to build one when he was forced to as the Indians' slave.  Interestingly, they were often pulled by by a dog(face).  It's made wrong, but they tried.

 Jamie was complaining about the 'sled,' which others took as a sign that he was fighting off the infection. My criticism about it was not that Roger wouldn't have known about one or how to make one, but that it looked fairly well made for having been put together out there with no real materials at hand. There was an awful lot of nice rope used on it.  🙂   I did not see them carrying rope on themselves when they were hunting and apparently they had left their horses loose to wander back home somehow, so they had no packs to go back to either. It was a magical travois, in my opinion. 

Nonetheless, I did appreciate Jamie, as injured and sick as he was, trying to explain to Roger how to navigate by the wind which direction to go.