S03.E08: Part VIII

[Door County Cherry]

Airs March 26, 2020

Quote

Jamie seeks vengeance, putting him on a collision course with Ambrose.

 

[BC4ME]

Wow, am I ever glad that is over. 

I did like the interaction of Ambrose and Jamie as Jamie was dying. He at least had someone who understood him at the end. He was horrible in that he murdered people, but he was a compelling, tortured character and they showed that well.

[skotnikov]

Pathetic. 

[HollyG]

I may have missed an episode or two. Did they ever explain what was between Jamie & Sonya? Did something happen between them in the past? 

 

 

Edited March 27, 2020 by HollyG

[Dowel Jones]

Legend has it that Eli is still running, trying to get clear of that entire town full of idiots.

[FoundTime]

36 minutes ago, Dowel Jones said:

Legend has it that Eli is still running, trying to get clear of that entire town full of idiots.

The other cop guy said he was at the police station. How he got there Dog only knows.

I thought Jamie's death scene was actually pretty good, considering. It made me feel like his whole problem was that he didn't want to be alone, and being influenced by Nick at such an impressionable age just f-ed up any hope that he'd ever find a way to get what he needed within the normal bounds of society.

[Madding crowd]

The death scene was good but overall there was a lack of suspense in this season. The best part of a mystery is trying to figure out what is going on. They could have gone so many ways with this. Sonya could have been the guys teacher and influenced them to play the game, Nick could have stayed alive and trying to infiltrate Jamie’s family. 

[LoveLeigh]

This was one of the worst series I have ever watched. It is preposterous. How could Jamie, who is totally psychotic, function as a teacher and husband for so many years and have nobody see any signs of his insanity? 

And a visit from his old college buddy sends him over the edge?

What was the purpose of this entire season? Bill Pullman analyzes the finale

[patty1h]

Silly me for deciding to hang around the whole 8 episodes.  This was pure dreck nonsense and I just stared into space at the scene when dumb Sonya sat in her house after Harry told her that Jamie was coming.  Then she talks to him and finally her survival instincts kick in when he pulls a knife on her.  I was hoping he'd shank her for being a fool.

That death scene... didn't care about the Jamie/Ambrose sick bromance finally ending.   Goodbye my dudes and I hope that I don't get suckered again if this gets another season - I have lost all faith in the detective skills of Harry Ambrose.

Edited March 27, 2020 by patty1h

[smeds]

12 hours ago, HollyG said:

I may have missed an episode or two. Did they ever explain what was between Jamie & Sonya? Did something happen between them in the past? 

 

 

I was wondering the same thing.  Did they ever explain why Jamie and Nick were driving to Sonya's house in the first place.  I figured they had some kind of connection to want to go specifically there and that would be revealed in the last episode, kind of like the first season reveal.  

[Orbert]

Well, that was something.  Pullman and Bomer are two of my favorite actors, and I stuck around for them.  And really, they both were incredible.  I just wish the story was better, or at least made more sense.  After four episodes, I had the feeling that it wasn't going to get any better, but I figured I was halfway in at that point, I might as well see how it ends.  Plus, something might change, things might actually start to connect, all that WTF would start making sense and I'd see how brilliantly we'd all been played.

That didn't happen.  Nothing ended up making sense, most of the characters made some ridiculously bad decisions or were just plain stupid anyway.  And it ends with Harry crying about it.  Wow, okay.

[ferjy]

This episode was better than most of the others. At least a few things happened. It was chilling when Harry got the Cootie Catcher from Jamie with Melanie’s and especially Eli’s name inside. But yes, the season itself was too drawn out. It’s the acting that keeps me coming back, just wish the stories were better. 

Edited March 28, 2020 by ferjy

[ferjy]

6 hours ago, smeds said:

I was wondering the same thing.  Did they ever explain why Jamie and Nick were driving to Sonya's house in the first place.  I figured they had some kind of connection to want to go specifically there and that would be revealed in the last episode, kind of like the first season reveal.  

Yes, they explained it. A few episodes back (ep 5?) Harry went to Sonya’s house and told her that Nick and Jamie had chosen her house purely by random, using their Cootie Catcher. He even brought it with him to show her. It had arrows in the last selection and the arrows led them to her house. 

 

Edited March 28, 2020 by ferjy

[HollyG]

5 hours ago, smeds said:

I was wondering the same thing.  Did they ever explain why Jamie and Nick were driving to Sonya's house in the first place.  I figured they had some kind of connection to want to go specifically there and that would be revealed in the last episode, kind of like the first season reveal.  

I thought she might have been an earlier victim of Jamie & Nick. It's bothering me that they didn't explain it better.

Edited March 28, 2020 by HollyG

[ferjy]

6 hours ago, patty1h said:

This was pure dreck nonsense and I just stared into space at the scene when dumb Sonya sat in her house after Harry told her that Jamie was coming.  Then she talks to him and finally her survival instincts kick in when he pulls a knife on her. 

I was ready to stab her myself. 

 

[Xeliou66]

I agree with everyone here - what a load of dreck this series was. This had a lot of potential but the way it played out was extremely unsatisfying - there was zero suspense in the second half of the series, and it was really unsatisfying how there turned out to be no connection between Jamie and Sonya, and how Jamie and Nick hadn’t actually done anything awful in the past and how everyone seemed to be making stupid decisions and how nothing made sense - why wasn’t Ambrose’s house under survelliance in this episode? There was just so much that was stupid about this season, and the worst part is is that there was no suspense. 

I agree that the death of Jamie was a well done scene. 

I wonder what will happen to Ambrose now and would internal affairs clear him in the shooting? I still think Ambrose needs serious mental help after allowing himself to be buried alive. 

Overall this season was a massive disappointment - it had a ton of potential but it devolved into stupidity and didn’t have any suspense. 

[Iguessnot]

I enjoyed this. Phenomenal acting. In the last two episodes, I was mesmerized and terrified whenever Jaime interacted with someone. His last meetings with his student, wife and Sonya were all terrifying and I'm glad they made it out alive. The story got very silly when Ambrose allowed himself to be buried, but I liked the turn around on the last two episodes. 

Sonya was crazy for doing what she did, but I was drawn to her honesty and ability to connect with people. God knows, Ambrose needs that honesty and her strength to pull what's hidden in him. 

The scenes with Jaime and his wife, and Jaime and Ambrose were excellent to me. I get the way they do the storytelling so it doesn't distract me from enjoying the characterizations on this show. With only 8 episode per story, their unorthodox method doesn't ruin the show for me.

I was surprised that no one commented on what seemed to be the sexual abuse Ambrose suffered from his mother.

1 hour ago, Xeliou66 said:

I agree with everyone here - what a load of dreck this series was. This had a lot of potential but the way it played out was extremely unsatisfying - there was zero suspense in the second half of the series, and it was really unsatisfying how there turned out to be no connection between Jamie and Sonya, and how Jamie and Nick hadn’t actually done anything awful in the past and how everyone seemed to be making stupid decisions and how nothing made sense - why wasn’t Ambrose’s house under survelliance in this episode? There was just so much that was stupid about this season, and the worst part is is that there was no suspense. 

I agree that the death of Jamie was a well done scene. 

I wonder what will happen to Ambrose now and would internal affairs clear him in the shooting? I still think Ambrose needs serious mental help after allowing himself to be buried alive. 

Overall this season was a massive disappointment - it had a ton of potential but it devolved into stupidity and didn’t have any suspense. 

I though Nick had killed someone in the past.

[ferjy]

1 hour ago, Iguessnot said:

I enjoyed this. Phenomenal acting. In the last two episodes, I was mesmerized and terrified whenever Jaime interacted with someone. His last meetings with his student, wife and Sonya were all terrifying and I'm glad they made it out alive. The story got very silly when Ambrose allowed himself to be buried, but I liked the turn around on the last two episodes. 

I agree, I found this episode very tense and was in the edge of my seat for most of it. 

 

1 hour ago, Iguessnot said:

Sonya was crazy for doing what she did, but I was drawn to her honesty and ability to connect with people. God knows, Ambrose needs that honesty and her strength to pull what's hidden in him.

I find Sonya interesting too and liked most of her scenes, except the last one with Jamie. It was too ridiculous. I can understand getting a thrill, but this wasn’t a you might get fired or you’ll lose a friend scenario, it was you’ll be killed! She knew how dangerous Jamie was at that point, and considering how pissed off she was that Harry and the police weren’t doing enough to keep her safe at the beginning, it was out of character for her to put herself smack in the middle of danger that way. 

I also agree about the characterizations. I never looked at this show as a whodunnit, but more a psychological drama. It’s very character driven. 

 

Edited March 29, 2020 by ferjy

[meep.meep]

This wasn't the best thing I've ever seen, but compared to the other two seasons, the ending of this didn't feel like I had been cheated.  There were no long drawn out red herrings and plot pieces that were put in to drive you crazy.  (Why did the parents just give up on the younger sister in Season 1, and what was the point of the giant rock in Season 2?)

You knew that Jamie and Nick had some sick connection, they showed what that was and how it developed, and the rest was what Ambrose went through in trying to catch Jamie.

[atlantaloves]

WELL, THAT HAPPENED....saying your lines very slowly does not make the content any better people...those writers are on xanix.  

[hookedontv]

On 3/29/2020 at 1:36 AM, Iguessnot said:

I was surprised that no one commented on what seemed to be the sexual abuse Ambrose suffered from his mother.

My memory is going from this quarantine (I don't even know what day it is and I'm working from home and should know this!), but I think they alluded to or somehow brought it up in one of the previous seasons? I think as a kid, Ambrose burnt his mom's house down. And I feel there had been some sort of mention or hinting of sexual abuse. 

There's a lot to unpack from Ambrose's head. 

[Iguessnot]

1 hour ago, hookedontv said:

My memory is going from this quarantine (I don't even know what day it is and I'm working from home and should know this!), but I think they alluded to or somehow brought it up in one of the previous seasons? I think as a kid, Ambrose burnt his mom's house down. And I feel there had been some sort of mention or hinting of sexual abuse. 

There's a lot to unpack from Ambrose's head. 

Wasn't she still in the house when he burned it down? I only thought they alluded to her being crazy but I missed any earlier signs of sexual abuse. 

[hookedontv]

2 hours ago, Iguessnot said:

Wasn't she still in the house when he burned it down? I only thought they alluded to her being crazy but I missed any earlier signs of sexual abuse. 

Maybe they didn’t allude to sexual abuse and I came to that conclusion myself? Maybe after we learned that Ambrose likes to be sexually dominated? 
 

Probably from too many years of watching Criminal Minds, Law & Order SVU, Dateline, etc.! 

[AnimeMania]

I just couldn't get over that Harry didn't bring any milk home.

[Neurochick]

On 3/26/2020 at 11:18 PM, BC4ME said:

Wow, am I ever glad that is over. 

I did like the interaction of Ambrose and Jamie as Jamie was dying. He at least had someone who understood him at the end. He was horrible in that he murdered people, but he was a compelling, tortured character and they showed that well.

To me Jamie was a spoiled brat.  His wife read him when she said HER father had to do manual labor in Jamaica, so WTF was Jamie crying about.  To me Jamie was a privileged white male who didn't know how good he had it.   I thought Harry shot Jamie because Jamie wouldn't STFU, I was getting tired of listening to his babbling on about Jung.

BTW, I forgot this show was even on, until I saw something today on YouTube and I realized I hadn't watched the last episode.  What a waste of time.

BTW part 2, the "Cootie Catcher" was called a "fortune teller" when I was about 8 years old and all of us kids made them, and I was 8 a LONG time ago, so Jamie and Nick weren't all that; just a pair of stupid, bored, privileged boys who read too much bad philosophy.  Someone should have dropped both of them in the Amazon jungle, Naked and Afraid and told them to survive for a few months.

Edited April 11, 2020 by Neurochick

[watch2much]

I saved all the episodes on my dvr so I could binge watch--anticipating a suspenseful show. although I did get thru it all, I admit to fast forwarding parts here and there to speed it up.  I could only take some much philosophizing. I love Mat Bomer (NEVER cut your hair again) and Bill Pullman but the whole series was like watching paint dry.  

 

[Sandman]

So a malignant narcissist and a guy with burgeoning borderline personality disorder (possible schizoaffective features) walk into a campus bar; misinterpret Nietzsche; hilarity ensues. Oh, wait...

Pullman and Bomer, as well as Hecht, deserved better material than this superficial, sophomoric treatment, though they did what they could with it. Bomer, in particular, I think, was ill served by the script. Jamie's motives as a response to existential terror always seemed shallow and kind of ... undercooked. 

I liked the final sequence for Harry and Jamie well enough, though as payoffs go, it felt like an awful lot of contrivance had to be worked into a froth to get them there. I wish I hadn't had the sense from about Part III onwards that the writers think that mental illness is somehow communicable. 

ETA: I'd never heard the name "cootie catcher" for Jamie and Nick's favourite fortune teller game. I find it interesting, given, as I suggest above, that the show seemed to think that "crazy" was a form of cooties one could catch.

Edited August 12, 2020 by Sandman

[Sandman]

On 4/11/2020 at 6:47 PM, Neurochick said:

I thought Harry shot Jamie because Jamie wouldn't STFU, I was getting tired of listening to his babbling on about Jung.

It's very, very wrong that I think it would have been great if Harry had shouted "That's not what Jung meant!" isn't it? 

Edited August 12, 2020 by Sandman

[QQQQ]

Damn, so much for my guess that we'd find out Sonya was Jamie's mom.

[Lakebum]

I expected the final scene to be Ambrose wearing a straight-jacket while locked in the padded cell he's been living in ever since he lost his mind dealing with the rock-worshipping cult from Season 2. THAT would have been believable, which is more than I can say about most of Season 3...

[Cotypubby]

Damn this season sucked hard. I watched season 1, never saw season 2, but thought I’d give this one a try since the cast looked really good and it was the top watched thing on Netflix. Those are 8 hours I’ll never get back. 
What I don’t understand is why no one in the entire series ever just said “STFU you crazy privileged rich white boy! Get over yourself, stop whining and reading bad philosophy. Grow up!”

Were we supposed to care when Jamie died? Yes Jamie, you are a bad person, and for all your bullshit naval gazing about being a superman, when you were actually dying you were no different than anyone else. 
 

Was there a single character in this series who didn’t behave like an illogical idiot? Maybe the policeman partner.

Psst, saying your lines slooooowy... and....halting between every other....word like it’s painful to... open your mouth does not equal great acting. Pullman, Hecht, Bomer, I’m talking to all of you. Just fucking speak your words!

[AZChristian]

Ten seconds after the end credits rolled on the last episode:

Me:  "Well, that was the worst ending ever."

Him:  "Yep."

[SunnyBeBe]

On 2/13/2021 at 1:01 PM, QQQQ said:

Damn, so much for my guess that we'd find out Sonya was Jamie's mom.

Right, but wasn’t there a scene of Sonja looking at some of her paintings and Jamie’s pregnant wife was in it?  I can’t recall where it happened.  

[natyxg]

Well, this season was a bunch of pretentious bullshit. It's been a while since I've hated a character as much as I hated Jamie. By episode 4 whenever he started speaking I wanted someone to just kill him already. I enjoyed reading some of the threads here, I laughed out loud for real.

I tried, genuinely tried, to follow along Jamie's interminable speeches and incoherent actions to try to understand what the fuck was his deal, how the hell was he supposed to make sense. The only thing that I ultimately understood about him was his loneliness and his desire to connect with someone who "got it". Besides that, I felt that he made no sense. His existential questions about life and death were understandable, but his reactions made no sense, specially the part about him becoming a serial killer. Even if there is no God to stop you and punish you, empathy should stop people from hurting others. And what exactly did his sadism change in terms of there being "nothing but THIS"? What does it have to do with anything? How do you go from "oh there is nothing but death awaiting us" to "I'm gonna go kill some people?" He also called Nick because he hated his life and was struggling, but then later he held on to his old life desperately, so I guess he did like it after all, eh?  I don't mean when he was afraid to die, but when he tried to keep his job and marriage and carry on like nothing happened.

And then, after ALL of that, when he's dying he shits his pants just like everyone else, so his entire story, the murders, the thrill seeking, the interminable speeches led nowhere and could've been skipped... maybe, just maybe you psycho person, if you had just let things well enough alone you might have had decades of life left. And the people you killed were also afraid when you killed them, so 🖕you!

Augh!

On top of Jamie's pretentious bs, there was also everyone acting like a moron just to keep pushing this pretentious bs.

I had planned to finish the last two seasons of this show, but after this one I don't know if I want to.

[truthaboutluv]

So I'm about two years late, but what the hell. After watching the first two seasons of the show faithfully, I sort of lost interest. But this past week, I saw the series trending on Netflix and decided to watch the last two seasons. I haven't started S4 but this one is making me hesitant to do so because wow, would I like those eight hours of my life back. 

First of all, there was no real mystery as in the first and second season. It was pretty straightforward. I guess this was the writers' way of trying to do something different, where the mystery isn't who is guilty or how but the why and getting into the mind of the murderer. Yeah except it wasn't the deep and profound exploration they clearly were attempting to go for. 

This was eight hours of listening to a pretentious, whiny little shit try and defend his psychopathic tendencies as being "truly honest" and "free." Halfway through this season while Jamie was blabbering on AGAIN about whatever bullshit he was on, I so just wanted someone to say, "oh shut the fuck up already you whiny little shit whose only issue in life is you HAVE NO PROBLEMS and so you're just creating some to feel important and relevant." 

Like I can't with these kind of narratives. Clearly why no one would ever call me the most sympathetic. I just can't get into the storytelling of whiny people just whining about nothing and creating problems to pretend they're so deep and misunderstood. This season would have worked as an episode of Criminal Minds. Because it would have been one episode of some annoying murderer blathering on about their faux honesty and truth and all that nonsense. But extending that to eight hours was just torture. 

Jamie was not interesting or compelling, despite the writers and Bomer trying hard to make him so, Sonya was annoying and I was honestly sort of hoping nothing would happen between her and Harry as I don't want to see her again and Harry's always exhausting with all his issues and quirks. So you combine that this season involved dealing with all three 80% of the time and yeah this was just painful. I guess there was some poetic justice to Jamie's boo-hooing about being scared and not wanting to die at the end. So much for "being your truest, most authentic self and looking death in the face." 

Edited February 12, 2023 by truthaboutluv

[shrewd.buddha]

On 8/12/2020 at 1:13 AM, Sandman said:

Pullman and Bomer, as well as Hecht, deserved better material than this superficial, sophomoric treatment, though they did what they could with it. 

The actors certainly seemed committed to trying to act out the nonsense they were given. The material just wasn't there.. .. at all.
Props to the girl playing Jamie's star pupil: she nailed the deer-in-the-headlights expression whenever Jamie gave her completely contradictory life-coaching advise. 

On 2/12/2023 at 12:37 PM, truthaboutluv said:

So much for "being your truest, most authentic self and looking death in the face." 

Jamie: "I kill people to make a point. Also, I fear death."
Jamie: "Everyone is fake and not living a real life. Also, I will totally lie to save my own ass."
Jamie: "You have to spend your life jumping off bridges and being buried alive to 'wake up' and 'get the the next level. Also, I am at the same place I was 15 years ago."
Jamie's reasoning skills were like some six-year-old child.  Sure, he was psychotic and had the misfortune of making friends with a psychopath in college - but still: STFU.

By the third episode I was wondering how they could manage to stretch out the premise to eight episodes.  If this wasn't binge-able on Netflix, we would have never made it to the end. 
The writing seemed like the result of some literary grad students who had skimmed the cliff notes of a a few philosophy books, then decided to invent a new form of torture. 

Detective Ambrose appears to have a tendency and talent for finding a bad situation and make it far, far worse.  I have no sympathy.  His wife and daughter should stay far, far away. 

Edited October 7, 2023 by shrewd.buddha