S01.E09: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 1

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

Following an unconventional and dangerous transit, Picard and the crew finally arrive at Soji's home world, Coppelius. However, with Romulan warbirds on their tail, their arrival brings only greater danger as the crew discovers more than expected about the planet's inhabitants.

Promo:

Clip:

Original air date: 3/19/20

Edited March 19, 2020 by ElectricBoogaloo

[paigow]

Episode 9 & 10 are together on the 19th? Or only 9? 

[Llywela]

5 hours ago, paigow said:

Episode 9 & 10 are together on the 19th? Or only 9? 

I think only 9 - it's a two-parter, though, so stand by for a cliffhanger for us all to scream about all week!

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Wow, that was quite the betrayal for Picard. I'm glad he got a heartfelt hug from Elnor before that happened.

[paigow]

Saga: Here is the miracle tool to repair your ship...

Raffi: Thanks...Do you have one about 1000 times bigger to fix a giant cube?

[paigow]

What would Synthetics do about non-corporeal lifeforms? Organians, Metrons...

And the old dude that exterminated the Husnak with a single thought....

[Stardancer Supreme]

That was wild.

I find Sutra much more interesting than Soji. So she let Narek go. To what end? How are they going to eliminate the Zhat Vash Romulans coming to their planet? 

The best way to fold Brent Spiner into this mythos. This is the son of Data's creator, who lived in the shadow of his synthetic "brother" all of his life.  This is going to be fun! 

Dammit, is it next Thursday yet?  

[paigow]

Sutra got the Lore 2.0 update....

[greekmom]

The episode didn't make sense at all - as usual.

Data was optimistic and protected organic life. Soong was optimistic as well. He tried to protect the people from the crystalline entity that Lore brought to kill them.  So the "son" of Soong is a baddie? Doesn't he realize that his death will be included because he is organic? Unless he is an android.

 Agnes is their mother??!?! Double huh!?!!?!?  Their mother would have been Julia Soong.   

How did they kill that android? She would have been ok and just needed a new eye but puncturing her eye killed her? Again, what??

Why would the android that looks like Soji let Narrek go? That again didn't make sense.\

Also, I found a continuity error. His cheek was cut in the one scene then "healed" in the next.

BTW - does this remind anyone of the Orville episode of the Kaylon attack and their hate of the organics? Except not written as well. 

 

 

[Vandy10]

When she was first introduced, I thought, "Hmm, gold Soji seems creepy. Am I supposed to find her creepy?"

10 minutes later: "Oh, yes, definitely creepy."

[starri]

37 minutes ago, greekmom said:

Why would the android that looks like Soji let Narrek go? That again didn't make sense.\

Sutra let Narek go because he would kill Saga in the process.  She used that to whip the rest of the synths up into a fury and automatically distrust everything because was telling them.

[paigow]

Saga offered to treat the wound. Since Jurati was not involved, it was successful.

[paigow]

3 hours ago, Stardancer Supreme said:

How are they going to eliminate the Zhat Vash Romulans coming to their planet? 

A single cube controlled by Locutus wiped out most of Starfleet. If Seven repairs the cube, it should be enough. This will end up like The Final Frontier....Everything Sybok believed was proven false...The Admonition is lying to the Romulans and Sutra...

[MissLucas]

Eh, that synth utopia looked like something straight out of TOS. And bronze Soji was shady as hell from the get-go. I'm disappointed by that 'nest' - had expected something more impressive than space hippies and giant orchids (admittedly they looked beautiful). And why did nobody bother to inquire what their floral planetary defense brought down? You'd think a giant Borg cube dropping on your planet would cause at least some curiosity.

'Homicidal fungi' was at least a great line. Otherwise I wish we could have spent more time with Seven and Elnor.

 

[SourK]

Wow. I feel affection for Picard as a character, but Raffi needs a better friend. He seriously just told her he was dying at the exact same time as he told a bunch of strangers he just met. That's cold.

I laughed a little bit when Gold Soji explained that the admonition isn't "Synthetic life will destroy the organics (scary)" but rather, if you know how to listen to it, "Synthetic life will destroy the organics (happy)."

At the same time, I did like that moment (heavy-handed as it was) where Picard was like, "I will save u, androids, run into my arms and give me control of the situation!" and they were all like, "HOW ABOUT NO."

The story was kind of convoluted, but it was exciting and it had a point of view that I still enjoyed.

[thuganomics85]

A planet where you enter the atmosphere by getting dragged into it by giant orchids?  This place is crazy!

So, Picard and crew do find the Synths, but it ends up not going the way they expected it would.  The place is being led by Dr. Altan Inigo Soong, the son of Dr. Soong who is also played by Brent Spiner (I bet he loves it whenever he isn't required to put on the make-up!), and Sutra: an older version of Soji, but with the iconic golden skin and yellow eyes.  Isa Briones did a good job with that role.

But after mind-melding with Agnes (because apparently she studied Vulcan stuff, according to Soong) and discovering how to destroy the Romulans, which apparently involve Synth Gods (?!), Sutra is just like "Actually, that's a pretty good idea, because fuck the Romulans!  And other organic life forms like the Federation, because they're kind of dicks too" about it.  Whoops!  

Also, Narek was the one tracking them after-all, but after being captured, Sutra let him go and basically set him up to kill one of the Synths, and help fuel the anti-organic movement with the Synths.

Nice try, Picard, but I don't think any grand speech was going to win over that crowd!

The whole scene with Raffi saying she loves Picard was so, so awkward.

Agnes is trying to make "emends" by helping Dr. Soong with some kind of android body and the ability to install a organic persons' memories into it.  What's the over/under someone is going to get injured badly next week, and they'll be using that trick real quick!

So, I guess the finale is going to a big Synth vs. Romulan battle, with Picard trying to find some way to salvage this, and Soji being torn over it.  There are also a few other factors to consider like a loose Narek, Rios and Raffi back at the ship, and last, but certainly not least, Elnor and Seven are also on the planet after crashing the Borg Cube into it.  If they can manage to fix that thing, that would make the battle very interesting!

[RobertDeSneero]

8 hours ago, starri said:

Sutra let Narek go because he would kill Saga in the process.  She used that to whip the rest of the synths up into a fury and automatically distrust everything because was telling them.

If Saga's death was meant to whip the rest into a frenzy, wouldn't it make more sense for Sutra to kill her instead of some plan to get Narek to do it for her?  I can see next episode having a scene where Narek says he didn't do it, but he saw who did.

[Delphi]

17 hours ago, paigow said:

Saga: Here is the miracle tool to repair your ship...

Raffi: Thanks...Do you have one about 1000 times bigger to fix a giant cube?

I don't think the cube was as damaged as the other ships.   Rios said that the orchids probably weren't designed for something so big,  but ignoring the fact of how the hell would he know that,  is probably right.  The cube already has long range sensors and possibly replicators back on line... and this is Seven.   I expect the Borg to be shooting a few romulans next week. 

[marinw]

9 hours ago, MissLucas said:

Eh, that synth utopia looked like something straight out of TOS.

I was reminded of the TNG Episode "Justice".

[MissLucas]

It was just your run-of-the-mill utopia - rather disappointing on so many levels. And there are also so many open questions: why did Maddox send Soji and Dahj back to earth and the artifact? If he was worried about the Romulans and suspected them to be behind the Mars attack then why did he not make sure the remaining synths were better prepared? Both Soji and Dahj seemed to have received a combat upgrade that poor killed-by-brooch-girl lacked. 

[Llywela]

15 hours ago, greekmom said:

Data was optimistic and protected organic life. Soong was optimistic as well. He tried to protect the people from the crystalline entity that Lore brought to kill them.  So the "son" of Soong is a baddie? Doesn't he realize that his death will be included because he is organic? Unless he is an android.

 Agnes is their mother??!?! Double huh!?!!?!?  Their mother would have been Julia Soong.   

How did they kill that android? She would have been ok and just needed a new eye but puncturing her eye killed her? Again, what??

Why would the android that looks like Soji let Narrek go? That again didn't make sense.\

Also, I found a continuity error. His cheek was cut in the one scene then "healed" in the next.

1. Alton Soong isn't a 'baddie'. He is a typically morally ambiguous Soong who wants to protect the creations he sees as his children - if they weren't under threat, he'd have continued to live peacefully with them, far away from the rest of galactic society. He didn't know the admonition existed until Soji brought news of it back to Coppelia with her - along with 218 Romulan warbirds hell bent on destroying the entire synth community.

2. Julia Soong? Do you mean Juliana Tainer, who was Data's mother? And no, Juliana was not the 'mother' of this community of synths. Their grandmother, more like. Agnes was here referred to as the closest thing these synthetics have to a 'mother' because her work with Bruce Maddox played a key role in their creation.

3. Saga was stabbed through the eye into her positronic brain, probably causing cascade failure. Even synths have their vulnerable spots - and I strongly suspect that it wasn't Narek but Sutra who killed her. Sutra would know where the vulnerabilities lie.

4. Sutra let Narek go so that he would be blamed for Saga's murder, to underscore to her fellow synths that organics are dangerous and cannot be trusted, so that they will feel justified in reaching out to the 'synthetic higher beings' for help. Personally, I suspect she is misinterpreting the admonition according to her own bias just as much as the Romulans did - she has certainly had just as strong a reaction to it as they did.

5. Not a continuity error. Saga told Narek she would arrange for food and drink to be brought and for his wounds to  be healed.

14 hours ago, starri said:

Sutra let Narek go because he would kill Saga in the process.  She used that to whip the rest of the synths up into a fury and automatically distrust everything because was telling them.

I don't think Narek killed Saga. I think Sutra killed Saga to frame Narek. I could be wrong, but she gives off strong Lore vibes and that is totally what Lore would do. But yes, that was the motive.

1 hour ago, MissLucas said:

It was just your run-of-the-mill utopia - rather disappointing on so many levels. And there are also so many open questions: why did Maddox send Soji and Dahj back to earth and the artifact? If he was worried about the Romulans and suspected them to be behind the Mars attack then why did he not make sure the remaining synths were better prepared? Both Soji and Dahj seemed to have received a combat upgrade that poor killed-by-brooch-girl lacked. 

Maddox told us why he sent Soji and Dahj on their respective missions - to find out the truth behind the synth ban. Which Soji now knows, mission accomplished. He wasn't expecting the Romulans to use Soji to find Coppelia, however - in fact, he took steps to hide the truth of her origins from her, probably specifically so that couldn't happen. The combat upgrade was a defence mechanism required by the mission. But alas, he couldn't foresee everything.

The run of the mill utopia I took as homage to previous Treks.

Edited March 20, 2020 by Llywela

[scottiB]

58 minutes ago, Llywela said:

The run of the mill utopia I took as homage to previous Treks.

Yes. I was chafing at it as lukewarm Trek plot, but by then end I settled into and embraced it. But, man does Sutra (eyeroll) totally rock the Studio 54 Halston jumpsuit and Cher hair. Was expecting to see her in some shots with Andy Warhol.

[MissLucas]

1 hour ago, Llywela said:

Maddox told us why he sent Soji and Dahj on their respective missions - to find out the truth behind the synth ban. Which Soji now knows, mission accomplished. He wasn't expecting the Romulans to use Soji to find Coppelia, however - in fact, he took steps to hide the truth of her origins from her, probably specifically so that couldn't happen. The combat upgrade was a defence mechanism required by the mission. But alas, he couldn't foresee everything.

He couldn't foresee everything - but he (and the other synths) know someone's out to get them. And if you're sending out spies you need to be prepared for a scenario where they get compromised. Doesn't require a mad genius brain to figure that one out. The writing for that plot is lackluster at best.

[Biggie B]

6 hours ago, Delphi said:

Saga: Here is the miracle tool to repair your ship...

Maybe it can be used to repair Picard's brain.

[Pallas]

By confronting his mirror image Lore, Data learned -- or chose -- who he was. Soji will likely do the same with Sutra. Or, perhaps, with Soong.

Because in searching for Data, has Picard found Lore instead? Is A.I. Soong actually A.I. Soong? Did Maddox somehow find and regenerate Lore, after his research was banned and he had nothing to lose? Did Lore become, first, Maddox's protoype and then his partner in designing the synth community? And if so, did Maddox program Lore to believe he was Noonian Soong's human son, or, is this A.I. Soong persona another of Lore's larks, for the sake of his human guests? And did Soong ultimately force Maddox from the safety of Coppelius into the danger zone of  Freecloud and the reach of the Zhat Vash? 

Maybe not. Perhaps Soong is what he says he is: very human, a man in the last decade or two of his life, looking to download into a ghola body. And from what we saw, the only male among his kind. 

[Wulfsige]

I've been really enjoying the series, I suppose it was inevitable I'd hit an episode I disliked, I just didn't think I'd hit one I hated this much. Mostly I hated that it resorted to the stereotypical Hollywood idea of Utopia, that is, a place with childishly naïve flower children slathered with greasy fake tans and bedsheet type garments arranged artfully over tight abs, with a few plastic butterflies thrown in.

All the stuff that was supposed to be emotional felt awkward, and that the childishly naïve flower children would turn genocidal in a hot second wasn't a surprise. I'd be rooting for the Romulans, except I really hate them, too. 

[Llywela]

2 hours ago, Pallas said:

By confronting his mirror image Lore, Data learned -- or chose -- who he was. Soji will likely do the same with Sutra. Or, perhaps, with Soong.

Because in searching for Data, has Picard found Lore instead? Is A.I. Soong actually A.I. Soong? Did Maddox somehow find and regenerate Lore, after his research was banned and he had nothing to lose? Did Lore become, first, Maddox's protoype and then his partner in designing the synth community? And if so, did Maddox program Lore to believe he was Noonian Soong's human son, or, is this A.I. Soong persona another of Lore's larks, for the sake of his human guests? And did Soong ultimately force Maddox from the safety of Coppelius into the danger zone of  Freecloud and the reach of the Zhat Vash? 

Maybe not. Perhaps Soong is what he says he is: very human, a man in the last decade or two of his life, looking to download into a ghola body. And from what we saw, the only male among his kind. 

Soong is the only human on the planet, but not the only male - we saw male synths as well as female, and we know that Beautiful Flower was also male.

I am pretty sure that Soong is exactly who he says he is: the biological son of Noonian Soong who felt overshadowed all his life by his father's obsession with his android 'children' but who nonetheless decided to follow in his father's footsteps and achieved success after hooking up with Maddox. If he were a synth himself, he wouldn't be so concerned with his own mortality or so eager to find a way to transfer his consciousness into a synthetic body. Plus, last we saw of Lore he was well and truly deactivated and disassembled. His story is told. But a new generation of Soongs allows another branch of the story to develop.

[Ottis]

6 hours ago, Wulfsige said:

I've been really enjoying the series, I suppose it was inevitable I'd hit an episode I disliked, I just didn't think I'd hit one I hated this much.

This episode betrayed everything (and it wasn't a lot) that the series had set up so far. We had just found out the Romulans actually had a reason to be aggressively monitoring and terminating synths. Intriguing. The we go to the synth home world and meet a cartoonish bad girl synth who ... well, the Romulans aren't wrong. It would have been far better to let the show make a case around whether we should hold the sins of our ancestors against their descendants. Instead, it suddenly became very cartoonish. Hugely disappointed.

[statsgirl]

I remember that Data was missing the chip for emotions and like Pinocchio was always looking for it to turn into a real boy.  Looks like this generation got the emotion chip but the one for morality was left out. Especially for Sutra.

While there were several things that I liked about this episode like the defence orchids, ultimately it was disappointing that once again the evil androids were going to wipe out mankind. I've seen that plot too many times although Picard did up it with a whole network of synths out there somewhere.

8 hours ago, Pallas said:

Because in searching for Data, has Picard found Lore instead? Is A.I. Soong actually A.I. Soong?..

Maybe not. Perhaps Soong is what he says he is: very human, a man in the last decade or two of his life, looking to download into a ghola body.

I love the idea that A. I. Soong is actually an A.I.

However I think that the second is more likely, that he is a fallible man trying to hold onto what immortality he can.

[ahisma]

The big Chekov’s gun is the android body. Whose mind will get transferred into it next episode? 

[Llywela]

4 hours ago, Ottis said:

This episode betrayed everything (and it wasn't a lot) that the series had set up so far. We had just found out the Romulans actually had a reason to be aggressively monitoring and terminating synths. Intriguing. The we go to the synth home world and meet a cartoonish bad girl synth who ... well, the Romulans aren't wrong. It would have been far better to let the show make a case around whether we should hold the sins of our ancestors against their descendants. Instead, it suddenly became very cartoonish. Hugely disappointed.

We already knew that the Romulans - or rather, a small but fanatical cabal of Romulans - had a reason to be aggressively monitoring and terminating synths. We've known that since we saw the flashback to the Admonition, it wasn't new information in this episode. We saw then how biological minds interpreted and responded to the Admonition - here we are seeing how a synthetic mind interprets and responds to it, and what we see is how similar the reaction is. Both the biological and synthetic minds exposed to the Admonition have the same reaction: this is a warning intended for me, I must take extreme action as a result of it, or the outcome will be devastating. Is Sutra's interpretation any more accurate than the Zhat Vash's? Just because she says it is, doesn't make it so. Just because Sutra terrifies her small, virtually defenceless community of synths into considering extreme action as the cliffhanger end of the pentultimate episode doesn't mean all those synths are irrevocably evil any more than the extreme actions of the Zhat Vash mean all Romulans are evil, or the corruption of Commodore Oh means the whole of Starfleet is evil.

This show has been telling a single story in ten parts. The way stories are structured calls for a climax before the resolution. And this episode was not only the penultimate episode of the season but also the first of a two-parter - therefore the story it is telling is not yet complete. The cliffhanger crisis of this episode sets the scene for the climax of the story in the finale, after which will come the resolution - don't mistake that crisis for the message of the show. The actual message of the show has been proclaimed by Picard from the start: a message of peace and optimism, of cooperation and mutual support. I have absolutely no doubt that sanity will prevail in the end, that the two sides will not wipe each other out, that an alternate solution will be found. Because this is Star Trek and that's how Star Trek rolls. The story isn't over yet.

ETA I would laugh if they attempted to summon these all-powerful ancient synths to destroy all organic life and then nothing turned up, because a) that's not what the message was meant to convey after all, or, b) those ancient unknowable beings no longer exist, because hey, even synthetics aren't actually eternally immortal, and an aeon is a long time.

Edited March 21, 2020 by Llywela

[tkc]

On 3/19/2020 at 7:59 PM, MissLucas said:

Eh, that synth utopia looked like something straight out of TOS.

Yea, brother, yea.

 

[kokapetl]

The android who died and her twin reminded me of Audrina from The Hills. The tan, the bleached teeth, the general dim bulb iq. When Data developed amnesia in Thine Own Self, he still had his brain power. These new androids are really inconsistent. Are they super advanced or aren’t they?

[Llywela]

1 hour ago, kokapetl said:

The android who died and her twin reminded me of Audrina from The Hills. The tan, the bleached teeth, the general dim bulb iq. When Data developed amnesia in Thine Own Self, he still had his brain power. These new androids are really inconsistent. Are they super advanced or aren’t they?

Super advanced in their design and construction, but not in life experience or knowledge. When we first met Data, he had already been in Starfleet for years, had a career's worth of experience behind him. These new synthetics are a different design and have led extremely sheltered lives, given access only to the knowledge their creator wants them to have. He has kept them naive because he likes them that way.

[MissLucas]

2 hours ago, Llywela said:

Super advanced in their design and construction, but not in life experience or knowledge. When we first met Data, he had already been in Starfleet for years, had a career's worth of experience behind him. These new synthetics are a different design and have led extremely sheltered lives, given access only to the knowledge their creator wants them to have. He has kept them naive because he likes them that way.

Sutra doesn't strike me as naive nor lacking in knowledge. She obviously studied organic culture enough to learn the Vulcan mind-meld. She had figured out that the Admonition was probably coded for a synth mind. And she manipulated Narek's escape in order to get the other synths behind her decision. It's possible that we're dealing here with a variation of 'some are more equal than others' but ultimately it's another strike against that version of synth utopia or rather how it's written.

[Vandy10]

I think I'm liking how this is all self-fulfilling. If the ancient synths had not left the message, the Zhat Vash would've never been born. If the Zhat Vash never existed, the attack on Mars and the synth ban never would've happened. If the Soong synths weren't being hunted by the Zhat Vash, Sutra wouldn't feel compelled to whip her fellow synths into a murdering frenzy against the organics.

Very Greek tragedy.

[Ottis]

6 hours ago, Llywela said:

We already knew that the Romulans - or rather, a small but fanatical cabal of Romulans - had a reason to be aggressively monitoring and terminating synths. We've known that since we saw the flashback to the Admonition, it wasn't new information in this episode.

I didn't say it was new. I said it was one of the few things this series had established previously. And it gave the Romulans (the presumed villains) a reason to be doing it, if we are to assume what they saw in the past was true (which characters on the show on both sides seem to believe it is). That was the one thoughtful arc the show presented. The villains might not be villains.

6 hours ago, Llywela said:

Is Sutra's interpretation any more accurate than the Zhat Vash's?

Sutra is responding to the threat of Romulans attacking her people, Admonition or no. And she is doing it in a cliched and cartoony way. Imagine if Sutra, or someone among her people, had seen the synth attack from the past, understood what today's Romulans were doing, and struggled with the responsibility as a species for what her forebears had done. THAT would have been interesting. And as a bonus, like all good Star Trek, it would have been an allegory to our real world for things like taking N America from Native Americans, and slavery. 

6 hours ago, Llywela said:

The cliffhanger crisis of this episode sets the scene for the climax of the story in the finale, after which will come the resolution - don't mistake that crisis for the message of the show.

I know how stories are structured, and I am not mistaking anything. I am responding to what has been shown. I can't assume hypotheticals for what we haven't yet seen.

6 hours ago, Llywela said:

The actual message of the show has been proclaimed by Picard from the start: a message of peace and optimism, of cooperation and mutual support. I have absolutely no doubt that sanity will prevail in the end, that the two sides will not wipe each other out, that an alternate solution will be found. Because this is Star Trek and that's how Star Trek rolls. The story isn't over yet.

Perhaps, and if so, meh. This isn't the 1980s. While I love ST and its core messages, the *way* the story is told should reflect our era, not 35 years ago. And at this stage, I'm disappointed.

I would not be surprised if, in the next episode, someone else from the synths rises to represent exactly what I wrote above - guilt over their past actions. As a counter to Sutra. But the way the show would have made it there was still underwhelming. Pretty much everyone I know who watched last week's ep said something like, "it was a damn ST:TNG episode." And these are people who like ST. It was the same way I felt.

If you watched Babylon 5, or can find my post from an ep thread or two ago about how that long arc played out, that's what I had hoped was happening. I suppose it still could be, but not executed nearly as well.

[Cthulhudrew]

On 3/19/2020 at 3:58 PM, greekmom said:

So the "son" of Soong is a baddie? Doesn't he realize that his death will be included because he is organic? Unless he is an android.

Not if he has his mind transferred into the "golem" body, as he seems to be bringing Agnes on board to assist him with.

A little too fast-paced for my tastes; there is so much to unpack with this episode, I think they should have given it a bit more time.

[tennisgurl]

Poor Picard, he just cant win. He tries to help Soji and get her back to her people, only for that to lead the Romulans to them, which leads to the synths going all Kill All Organics, making the whole situation even worse. 

I kind of like the whole Greek tragedy/self fulfilling prophesy nature of the whole situation. If the super powered synths hadn't sent the prophesy out, the Romulans would have never built a whole secret cabal to stop synths, and if they hadn't tried to kill the synths, then the synths wouldn't be on the verge of killing all organic life. Violence begets violence and fear and hatred leads to more to hatred and on and on, its all rather poetic. I really hope that by next week, Picard can finally get his redemption after the mess with Romulus and stop this whole mess before it escalates further, and is finally able to save the day and get everyone to work together and stop killing each other for three seconds. 

 So did the space hippies from TOS found this robot planet am something? I got some serious space hippie vibes here. I also was reminded of the backstory of the Dominion, where the Founders basically justified their murdering and subjugation of every other species that they could find because they had been oppressed as shape shifters at one point, and now saw every non shifting species as a possible enemy that they have to take over and oppress as a presumptive measure, much the way Sutra is now justifying mass genocide of all organic life on the basis that they will keep trying to kill her people, and that its the only way for them to survive. 

At least Picard got a big hug from Elnor before this clusterfuck all started. 

[Wouter]

On 3/21/2020 at 7:40 AM, Llywela said:

Both the biological and synthetic minds exposed to the Admonition have the same reaction: this is a warning intended for me, I must take extreme action as a result of it, or the outcome will be devastating. Is Sutra's interpretation any more accurate than the Zhat Vash's? Just because she says it is, doesn't make it so. Just because Sutra terrifies her small, virtually defenceless community of synths into considering extreme action as the cliffhanger end of the penultimate episode doesn't mean all those synths are irrevocably evil any more than the extreme actions of the Zhat Vash mean all Romulans are evil, or the corruption of Commodore Oh means the whole of Starfleet is evil.

Both sides - at least the gang leaders - are shown to be pretty much evil. We have Oh and Narissa on the one hand, which kill and/or sacrifice not only 90.000 Starfleet personnel on Mars and a large number of xB's on the artifact but also millions of Romulans on Romulus to reach their goals, and Sutra and her followers on the other hand which are willing to go for a complete genocide.

It reminds me a bit of the war in Syria, where there are really no good guys (among the political sides involved) and the ordinary citizens are victimised by all sides. So maybe the storyline is inspired by events like this, it's not good guys against bad guys but very dark gray against other very dark gray.

On 3/21/2020 at 2:31 PM, Ottis said:

I would not be surprised if, in the next episode, someone else from the synths rises to represent exactly what I wrote above - guilt over their past actions. As a counter to Sutra.

I would guess that we can expect Soji to come around and/or turn on Sutra in some way. And Narek will probably be involved in that, as the truth about Saga is likely to come out in some way.

I also wonder what will happen to the cube - I was surprised when it appeared early and was brought down, but maybe it will rise again to defend the xB's (and what happened to Ramdha? Is she still on it?).

[paigow]

First Contact established that Borg ships can time travel... The Romulans obliterate everything except the cube. It escapes to the Admonition planet, destroys Stonehenge IN THE PAST before Oh can learn anything and saves Mars, thereby saving Romulus and mini-Riker because his DNA can be purified positronically....

Edited March 23, 2020 by paigow

[AnimeMania]

If I created a bunch of sexy robots, the first thing I would teach them is the Hippie concept of "Free Love", the second thing I would teach them is hygiene.

[Athena]

The theme of twin/siblings synths is interesting and carried over from TNG with Data and Lore. One is more evil/amoral and one is more good at least to the audience's eyes. It also seems like in this utopia everyone has a twin so losing one would be probably be traumatic even for synths. Maybe Janna was the "good" one and Sutra is the "bad" one. She is definitely the more amoral one. Similarly, up until maybe last episode, I still preferred Daj in her one pilot episode to Soji even though they are played by the same actress. The writing has also made us more inclined warm up to one synth over the other. Even though it looks like Soji will change her mind in the finale, she is still an unknown and it all rests on her. 

This episode was good. I liked episode 7 and 8 much better, but this one sets up the finale so it doesn't have as many punches. The utopia is camp. I do like seeing Brent Spiner back on the screen. I will always miss Data.

[Kromm]

The see-saw of this show between good episodes and bullshit has gone back to bullshit here.  The synthetic who "learned" mind-meld?  Cough.  Bullshit.

A few moments in this episode were okay, but the bulk of it was overwraught and over the top.  The evil synthetic (clearly the killer of the one who died) was just the rotten icing on the cake.  

Even the way Spiner's character explained himself, his identity and purpose, was annoying and inelegant.

If the pattern holds maybe the next episode might not suck, but this one sure did.

On 3/20/2020 at 7:30 AM, lora said:

Man, Cabrera says a lot with those eyes, and Alison Pill is good with her facial expressions.

So non-synths are called organics.

That's kind of the real world term too. 

 

Quote

or·gan·ic

/ôrˈɡanik/

relating to or derived from living matter.

 

[TVbitch]

I did not know Brent Spiner was going to be on until he walked up. What a great surprise. Hope they keep him ongoing. I thought he might make an appearance as Lore, but I will take him however we can get him. 

Um, if that was the Admonition, then aside from feeling sorry for that decomposing fox, I did not want to blow my brains out over it or anything.

It's too soon for Rios to have a love interest! He needs to Kirk around for a couple seasons.  

Picard promising to protect the synths is just what he said to the Romulans who he then could not protect. So yeah, I would not put my eggs in his basket, either. 

Edited March 23, 2020 by TVbitch

[wanderingstar]

I really did love seeing Brent Spiner again. He's such a gifted actor. He truly disappears into whatever role he is playing.

Dahj. Soji. Sutra. Jana. We've got ourselves a regular Orphan Black group here, don't we. I'm intrigued by Sutra. She's seems just as ruthless as Oh and the rest of the Romulans.

Raffi's reaction to Picard's illness was touching, as was their goodbye scenes. Those two really do make a great team.i

[paigow]

1 hour ago, Kromm said:

That's kind of the real world term too. 

Do Synths know that the freshest organics are available at Whole Foods??

[Llywela]

13 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Poor Picard, he just cant win. He tries to help Soji and get her back to her people, only for that to lead the Romulans to them, which leads to the synths going all Kill All Organics, making the whole situation even worse. 

 So did the space hippies from TOS found this robot planet am something? I got some serious space hippie vibes here.

To be fair to Picard, the Romulans had located Soji before he even knew she existed, and they'd extracted the location of her homeworld from her before he arrived at the Cube. They'd have been gunning for the synths of Coppelius whether he was involved or not. But giving the synths prior warning, now that's what has endangered all organics, and that one is 100% on Picard for choosing to help Soji - he really did have no idea what he was getting himself into.

No wonder the Romulans are so annoyed. They had this solid plan and it would have worked, too, if Picard hadn't shoved his oar in!

The synth colony was definitely modelled on the TOS/TNG space hippy pattern!

[MissLucas]

I'm going to blame Maddox (and Soong jun. I guess) for creating Dahji and Soji as sleeper agents. If nothing else they could at least have given them a subroutine against Romulan honey-traps!

Edited March 23, 2020 by MissLucas

[Florinaldo]

The synth colony certainly was in keeping with the tradition of previous idealised or idealistic societies on TOS/TNG, with the flowing clothes that reveal just enough flesh (although we now have gender equality of sorts in that most males also display their wares and it's not just the females with the navel-baring and naked-back robes that were standard on the previous shows). And for once there is a reason for everyone being handsome (no fat or old specimens): they were all designed.

Which does not prevent them from stupidly assigning the most naive and trusting one to watch over the prisoner; sure enough she almost fell for his persuasion, only to be prevented by Sutra who eventually did her in anyway.

I can buy Data mastering the Vulcan nerve pinch since it is just physiological. But a synth learning how to mind-meld just from "studying" Vulcan culture? Sorry, that was much too expedient for me; there are limits to my ability to suspend disbelief. At least for Oh they found an acceptable explanation; she is half-Vulcan, so much like Spock the ability comes from that half, even though the telepathic abilities died out in Romulans.

So how many Soongs has BS portrayed over the various series in the franchise? I count 3, going as far as the creator of the Augments in Enterprise. Perhaps he will eventually do a daring cross-dressing turn and play gentle old Auntie Soong. One thing for sure: his genes are very dominant since every generation looks like the previous one.

So the Artefact it just lying there? Will it play the role of Chekov's gun, i.e. being planted early in the story so it can play a crucial role later, with Elnor and Seven leading the charge?

This episode was mostly set-up for the finale; a lot of material and premises were laid out, which means they have quite a challenge to bring it all together satisfyingly.

Edited March 23, 2020 by Florinaldo