S06.E05: Communication Breakdown

[PrincessPurrsALot]

Quote

Jazz announces her college decision, setting her anxiety in motion. She struggles to plan a drag show fundraiser for Noelle's gender confirmation surgery.  And during JoJo's breast consultation and explosive confrontation threatens to tear the family apart. 

TLC really wants to focus on surgeries and more surgeries.  Sheesh!  There is so much more to these young women's lives than their surgeries, but that is what TLC wants to talk about again and again and again.  As we all know, the surgeries are visual transformations and TV is s visual media, but seriously, can we see something else?  Anything?  

Rant over. Original air data 2020.02.25

[Lesia]

I thought getting a vagina was going to be the answer to all her issues. Why would she have anxiety? Careful what you wish for...

[Kid]

Jeanette, I just can’t!!!!  She smiles like a Cheshire cat when she gets what she wants no matter what the cost.

[Kid]

Jazz is next reality show will be My 600 Pound Life.

[VioletNevermind]

Jesus Christ, Jazz.  You’re actually getting pissy about your brother and father not wanting to perform on stage in a drag show?  She said, “I would have thought you would want to help me and Noelle.”  Wow.  Has her family really not done enough for her?!  It’s easy to see that her dad gets irritated with her sometimes when he just sighs and looks off into the distance.

I continue to have the utmost respect for Noelle.  She seems like such a warm, thoughtful person.  I hate to say it, but she’s way too good for Jazz.

[Linny]

Jazz attempting to guilt trip her dad and brother into joining the drag show on the basis that they don't want to "let down Noelle" made me so frustrated with her. Sorry, but no, no one is letting down Noelle if the drag show doesn't happen. Noelle had no expectation of Jazz's family fundraising on her behalf. She didn't ask Jazz to take on such a project. She definitely was not comfortable with the concept of a drag show, something Jazz knew from the onset, and basically only consented out of politeness. If the show fails, the only one who's going to be disappointed is Jazz, for being incapable of snapping her fingers and making an entire event fall into place. I trust Jazz had the best of intentions here, but she should not have volunteered herself for such an undertaking if she wasn't prepared to expend the energy to see it through to completion.

My heart does go out to Jazz when it comes to her binge eating, however. My recovery from anorexia involved rebounding into binge eating, and Jazz's description of it as monster consuming her aligns exactly with my experience. It's really scary to feel so out control, powerless to stop yourself from doing something you know you shouldn't. I hope Jazz gets the help needed to curb her disordered eating patterns and to be the healthiest version of herself possible.

[TomGirl]

I think the whole drag show idea is kind of silly, but OMG, Grandpa Jack in that wig!  Bless his heart!

[maggiegil]

49 minutes ago, Linny said:

but she should not have volunteered herself for such an undertaking if she wasn't prepared to expend the energy to see it through to completion.

Didn't you hear the multiple times we've been told that Jazz is a perfectionist despite us seeing her throwing together everything at the last minute whenever she organises something.

I was so glad that Jojo's Grandma stood her ground, a single letter from a therapist should not be what is required for this surgery to go ahead on someone so young, if the Dr is going to perform this I think long term therapy should be required. Jojo comes across as very immature, I felt like she was one step from rolling on the floor throwing a tantrum because her Grandma wasn't cheering her on. Jojo does not look out of proportion at all, I was bra shopping at the weekend and came across a bra size in a 42AA, that would look out of proportion but Jojo looks great. I thought the Grandma was right about not giving in to every demand and it was something I think Jeanette should have been told again and again while Jazz was younger.

The way they deal with mental illness is shocking, Jeanette saying to Jazz she needs "to get a grip on her anxiety" was so frustrating because the way to do that is through therapy which should have been happening all along.

[lgprimes]

Ok I am only part way through tonight’s episode, so maybe this gets resolved...

but are you telling me there is NO drag queen community anywhere near where Jazz lives? She is so upset that Peppermint couldn’t  fly down from NY. I live in rural nowhere and now and then there are drag events in the area. I have to believe a quick phone call could have found a supportive local group of Queens to help out.

and pretty hypocritical for her to try to force her family members into gender roles that make them uncomfortable.

[threebluestars]

These "events" Jazz plans look like things the show has told her to try and do, but she has no connections or even relative fame to make it happen so they always look like garage sale level. A fundraiser people want to see doesn't involve your family members lipsyncing. I mean WTF.

Noelle is the person I tune in to see on this show. I want good things for her.

[princelina]

At some point I think someone said that this "drag show" is in less than a week.  Meanwhile, Jazz "thinks she might" have a venue, "Peppermint" and her dad, grandpa, brothers and self performing, although they've seemingly organized nothing towards that but heels for Sander and grandpa's dress.  But sure she can raise $15,000.  The fact that "Peppermint", Griff and Greg bowed out doesn't really make a difference does it?  I felt sorry for her old school friends who had to leave their homes to show up at the hair salon and sit there oohing and aahing over Jazz's ridiculous nonsense.

I'm curious about the "rift" between her and the girl she sang with.  Also I'm team Grandma in the Jojo storyline.

I'm not sure how I feel about the binge scene at the end of the show. I know she has a real problem, but to bring out all that food and then sit there eating it while she knows she's being filmed doesn't ring true with me.  Did she just go out with her camera crew and say "watch this"?  Did someone ask her to reenact a binge?  Is it all just more manipulation now that she's chosen the college she didn't want?  Something's not right there.

[TomGirl]

11 minutes ago, princelina said:

I'm not sure how I feel about the binge scene at the end of the show. I know she has a real problem, but to bring out all that food and then sit there eating it while she knows she's being filmed doesn't ring true with me.

That was SO phony and obviously staged.  Binge eaters go to great lengths to hide their eating behavior.  Trust me, I know all about it!

[princelina]

52 minutes ago, TomGirl said:

That was SO phony and obviously staged.  Binge eaters go to great lengths to hide their eating behavior.  Trust me, I know all about it!

Yeah me too.  That's why I wondered.  But these parents worry so publicly about giving in to everything the kids want or they'll commit suicide, which makes the kids very manipulative.  I could see her just doing it so that they will see how anxious or unhappy they've made her.

[Cotypubby]

How the hell does Jazz think she can raise $15,000 by throwing together a drag show featuring her own family!? Who the hell would pay for that!? It’s so obviously something staged by TLC, I’m going to guess right now that some producer anonymous person will make a sizable donation to give the impression that the drag show worked. Otherwise she’d be lucky to get even $1,000.

[kicotan]

8 hours ago, maggiegil said:

The way they deal with mental illness is shocking, Jeanette saying to Jazz she needs "to get a grip on her anxiety" was so frustrating because the way to do that is through therapy which should have been happening all along.

I agree.

I think they are hyper vigilant about making sure that Jazz’s gender identity is never misconstrued on the show as either being a mental illness/disorder or as a foundation for her eating disorder and/or anxiety disorder, so they just don’t do therapy at all.  On the other hand, in order to be treated by medical professionals as well as receive reimbursement from insurance for medical expenses relating to Jazz’s gender nonconformity, a diagnosis has to be made.  Back when Dr. Bowers required more than one letter from a qualified therapist, Jazz begrudgingly went so she could get her approval for surgery, but apparently that’s all there was to it.

There are folks who are pushing very hard for “gender dysphoria” to be removed from the DSM altogether, but alas, without a diagnosis the hormone blockers/replacements, top/bottom surgery, facial feminization surgery, etc. would all be considered elective and completely out-of-pocket.

In 2013, The DSM was updated to change “gender identity disorder” to “gender dysphoria”, shifting the focus from the existence of the identity alone to IF the person is distressed about their ability to function with that identity or not out there in the world.

The WHO just last year removed “gender dysphoria” off of it’s list of mental illness/disorders and it is now referred to as “gender nonconformity”.

I think the Jennings’ are missing out on an opportunity to be advocates for appropriate therapy options for transgender individuals.  Instead of the focus being solely on the external appearance, I think their audience would benefit from seeing Jeanette insist that Jazz’s mental health is just as important as how her genitals look, instead of handing her a bag of yummy baked goods or losing her shit at the mere thought of Jazz adulting without Jeanette being 3 hours or less away.

[ClareWalks]

Jazz should find out if Trinity the Tuck is available. She's a Drag Race vet like Peppermint (same season), Florida-based, knows how to put on events, and is a total sweetheart who would love Noelle.

[Mary]

48 minutes ago, ClareWalks said:

Jazz should find out if Trinity the Tuck is available. She's a Drag Race vet like Peppermint (same season), Florida-based, knows how to put on events, and is a total sweetheart who would love Noelle.

When Jazz said that she thought she had a venue, I thought it should have been a local bar that features drag queens.  If that were the case, the bar could have helped her with promotion and rounding up performers. Also, the obvious answer to the fundraising was announcing the financial need on a reality show- except that this show  is aired well after the events they’re portraying.  

I didn’t like Jacky’s pessimistic attitude re: Jazz’s success at Harvard.  She might NOT fail.  She might succeed.

A couple of episodes ago, Jeanette said that if JoJo didn’t want the implants that they could just be taken out.  No ma’am.  It’s not that simple.  It would be major surgery and disfiguring.  I think that JoJo’s grandma’s fear might be that she’s worried that JoJo would change her mind about transitioning and then end up stuck with breasts.  It’s about the only issue that hasn’t been brought up.  

JoJo’s mom argued that the surgery would enable her daughter to look down at herself and feel “whole”.  She herself said that it would be years before JoJo could have bottom surgery.  How exactly does she know when her daughter might feel whole ?

I know Jeanette had the plastic surgery consult in an earlier episode, but I couldn’t help thinking that if she lost the cheap flea market jewelry, the bedazzled readers, the pastel eye shadow, and the cold shoulder tops, she could make a better judgement on plastic surgery.  All that crap ages her.  Also, she’s obviously overweight.  Is she contemplating losing weight ?  If she is, weight loss of 40 pounds or so after the surgery would definitely affect the results.  

Watching the binge eating scene (scripted or not) made me wonder if anyone has ever told Jazz no ?  Even herself ?  One of the things that separates her from the participants on My 600-Pound Life  is the ability to say no.  I’m not normally one to advocate for therapy, but if the binge eating isn’t for the show, she needs to seek help for it.  

 

[Fostersmom]

So.... what exactly was Jazz doing to get the drag show going? Just asking Peppermint, convincing Noelle, you know who's like a sister to her, do go along with something she's not comfortable with, and badgering her family does not a fundraiser make. Oh, and getting some girl to write a song for her to perform, you know a girl who apparently Jazz used and tossed to the side in the past. I also wonder if Peppermint was on board until she found out Jazz was pretty much relying on her to carry the whole damn thing. Oh, and Noelle, I hope you got something out of this, cuz it wasn't friendship or support. You deserve better. 

I too call bullshit on the binge scene. It was amazing how they got the grocery store to allow their name to be shown, and Jazz was considerate enough to not show the names of the foods she was eating. Although, whatever monstrosity that sandwich was probably wouldn't do them any favors. What was that? It looked disgusting. But it was pretty obvious she had Rold Gold pretzels and Nutella, and chocolate milk of unknown brandage. 

And it may be harsh, but Grandma might be the only one who has a realistic view on Jazz's chances at Harvard. I don't see her succeeding, if she even goes. I'm only giving it less than 50% at this point that she even attends. Grandma had it right when she said Jazz was sacrificing her own self to go there, too bad Grandma didn't tell her daughter to back the hell off and for once, let Jazz sink or swim on her own. 

I'm going to have to almost side with JoJo's grandma on this one. JoJo's 14, her body is going to change still. At even 16, she'd probably be done growing, she would be better off growth wise to wait just a bit more. Right now her frame is so slight, I think a moderate C cup is going to look too big on her. Oh, and find a different surgeon, one who doesn't look like a bad plastic surgery cautionary tale. 

 

[TomGirl]

It’s too bad JoJo can’t see how truly beautiful she is!

[maggiegil]

4 minutes ago, Fostersmom said:

And it may be harsh, but Grandma might be the only one who has a realistic view on Jazz's chances at Harvard. I don't see her succeeding, if she even goes.

The thing is for once Jeanette was right, the hard thing is getting in, its incredibly hard and extremely rare for someone to fail out of Harvard, not because they're all genuises or hard workers but because its the policy, there is also crazy grade inflation.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/posteverything/wp/2017/09/19/how-harvard-helps-its-richest-and-most-arrogant-students-get-ahead/

 

[Granny58]

So any parent would be proud to say they have a child going to Harvard.  Guess her brothers and sister are just shit then?  

[Granny58]

12 hours ago, princelina said:

'm curious about the "rift" between her and the girl she sang with.  Also I'm team Grandma in the Jojo storyline

I;m team Grandma too but the way Jazz was inserting herself in the discussion and all about "feelings," ugh...it was so obnoxious.  Jazz knows Jazz, not every situation regarding this topic.  I applaud grandma for not smacking her.  

[gingerella]

Well, the positive thing I can say about last night's epi was that we got a genitalia-free show, yeah us!

Jojo's grandma...I feel for her in that she's clearly struggling with her granddaughter being trans and is hoping that Jojo will 'grow out of it' and revert back to Joe. I doubt that's happening, but the family would indeed benefit from family therapy, which, didn't the mom mention? I think the three of them should find a good therapist specializing in trans counseling, and go individually and together, so they can come together as a family to support Jojo. As for Jojo herself, the doc said that after a year you should see the best of what your breast development will be, but perhaps she could just get a padded bra and small cutlets and call it a day for now. Mom said she'd feel more whole looking down at herself but if she still has male genitalia I don't get how just having breasts will help her. I'd think it would make her hate her lower body even more, and exacerbate her dysphoria, and then what? Are they going to do bottom surgery on a 14 year old? It's a delicate situation but as many here have said, this little family needs therapy more than top surgery, IMO.

As for Jazz, I noticed as she was listening to Peppermint's voicemail, she was grimacing more and more. Yeah Jazz, your fundraiser is now on you, not Peppermint, who is a professional drag artist and I highly doubt she'd want to be associated with Jazz's lazy jankity fundraiser. She said herself, a bad drag show is the worst. She's not going to be a part of that shit, no way. And I too think that production had a strong hand in this fundraiser BS. The cluelessness of Jazz insisting her male family members dress in drag and sashay around a public event is mindboggling. That her brother had to really take a stand because he wasn't comfortable doing drag - I mean, Jazz, self appointed Queen of Queer Rights, cannot see how maaaybe she could have approached that situation with a titch more care and respect for their feelings, instead of barreling into a wig shop, telling them to put on wigs, and then saying, "oh yeah, you're all going to support me and be in this right?!" She really is myopic.

I don't think Jazz will ever go to Harvard, or at least not for her undergrad studies. That whole scene was ridiculous! Jeanette's spoiled brat pouting and eye rolling when Jazz was setting up her decision announcement, and then her subsequent smirk when she heard the word 'Harvard', it was all so self-serving. "Every parent hopes their kid will get into Harvard...It's every parent's dream to say 'my child is going to Harvard'..." Really Jeanette? I guess your other three children are chickenshit and don't count then, huh? I guess one graduating early isn't that impressive, is it? I guess your other kids really don't matter as long as you can pimp out Jazz and remain on some sort of public stage. Uch, this woman irks me no end. Like Jojo's family, the Jennings need extensive family counseling. Jeanette is right, Jazz IS unstable, and unreliable, and undisciplined, and uncommitted, and a lot of other not so great things. But much of that is because of Jeanette's Always Give In parenting approach. Yes it's a fine line when you have a child battling depressions and/or anxiety, especially if they've ever tried or talked about killing themselves. But you, as the parent, have to get yourself serious therapy, along with your child, so you can find ways to parent effectively and not give in to every whim your child has. I know someone close to me who's dealing with this, and the child goes to therapy and her parents each go to therapy, then they meet as a family too, and learning how to parent and discipline a kid with mental illness issues is something you don't do on the fly. And you certainly don't put them on TV to boot.

Jack and Jackie are the only sane people in that family right now. And I think Grandma's got Jazz's number and knows she's lazy and unmotivated and is sorely lacking in social skills and likely will not have a successful or pleasant college experience at a place like Harvard. It's too bad she and her husband didn't speak more forcefully with Jeanette and Greg about this. I mean, they get dragged into every goddamned convo about their granddaughter's genitalia, I think they've earned the right to speak up about stuff like this. I hope they give special/extra attention to the other three kids. Also, it was telling how shocked Jazz's pretend friends were about her not going to Pomona. Honestly? At this point, I think most Admissions offices might be wary of admitting Jazz because if they watch this show it's fairly obvious this is a kid with a lot of issues, and I'm not talking about her gender stuff, just a total lack of follow through, push back whenever anyone tried to teach her anything. Her whole spiel about how she's always been a rebel and gone her own way no matter what others tell her is just her way of justifying her poor, me Me ME decision making.

Can we lobby for this show to end and get a Jazz-free show called Noelle's World? Please???

Edited February 26, 2020 by gingerella

[FurBabyMama]

Jojo grandma did make a point... jazz waited and grew herself. So why can’t the same thing happen with jojo? Didn’t jazz start estrogen really young, like 11? So it was already more than a year by the time of the consult. I have a hard time buying that she still can’t develop anything more at this stage. Plenty of cis teenage girls are very small As at 15, and to allow your 15 year old to undergo this sort of procedure while they’re still growin  and changing makes no sense. 

[Mary]

19 minutes ago, gingerella said:

Can we lobby for this show to end and get a Jazz-free show called Noelle's World? Please???

Actually, the Discovery Health show that featured Dr. Bowers was really interesting.  I wish more had been produced.  The parts of I Am Jazz that deal with advocacy leave me cold.  Jazz is, as someone posted up thread, myopic to say the least.  I’ve also seen her uninformed and disrespectful to others.  None of these qualities are particularly helpful in an advocate.  

[Granny58]

29 minutes ago, gingerella said:

we lobby for this show to end and get a Jazz-free show called Noelle's World? Please???

I would watch the hell out of Noelle's World!

[ClareWalks]

Can I just say, the episode titles have made very little sense this season. "Communication Breakdown?" When? What? The other episodes have been similarly poorly named.

[Fostersmom]

1 hour ago, maggiegil said:

The thing is for once Jeanette was right, the hard thing is getting in, its incredibly hard and extremely rare for someone to fail out of Harvard, not because they're all genuises or hard workers but because its the policy, there is also crazy grade inflation.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/posteverything/wp/2017/09/19/how-harvard-helps-its-richest-and-most-arrogant-students-get-ahead/

 

Well yeah, it would look bad if like half their graduating classes were no better educated than C level graduates at the lowest ranked state colleges, but hey, they get a degree that says Harvard on it. But honestly, even if Jazz does go, I just don't see her completing a degree there. For one thing, she's just lazy and she'd have to go for like 4 whole years, and another is there are actually some really vocal and smart kids who won't be so happy to just go along with whatever Jazz has deemed the right and only way. We saw what happened when JoJo's grandma had a differing opinion, she had to leave the room in tears. Hell, I was a special education major at a state school 20 years ago, and I remember some pretty, shall we say spirited, discussions that would take over a whole class. You didn't have to agree, but you had to respect the other opinions. Jazz can't manage that on a 1 to 1 basis, no way will she make it when there's bound to be a good hunk of differing opinions. 

4 minutes ago, Granny58 said:

I would watch the hell out of Noelle's World!

I think we all would watch the hell out of Noelle's World! Even better if Noelle had Jazz on her show and make her wear a damn bra and not talk about being trans for a whole episode. Maybe Noelle's World could give Jazz and Jeannette makeovers, tone the makeup gun down about a few 1000 notches, and dress them each in age appropriate clothing. 

[Kid]

3 hours ago, gingerella said:

Well, the positive thing I can say about last night's epi was that we got a genitalia-free show, yeah us!

Jojo's grandma...I feel for her in that she's clearly struggling with her granddaughter being trans and is hoping that Jojo will 'grow out of it' and revert back to Joe. I doubt that's happening, but the family would indeed benefit from family therapy, which, didn't the mom mention? I think the three of them should find a good therapist specializing in trans counseling, and go individually and together, so they can come together as a family to support Jojo. As for Jojo herself, the doc said that after a year you should see the best of what your breast development will be, but perhaps she could just get a padded bra and small cutlets and call it a day for now. Mom said she'd feel more whole looking down at herself but if she still has male genitalia I don't get how just having breasts will help her. I'd think it would make her hate her lower body even more, and exacerbate her dysphoria, and then what? Are they going to do bottom surgery on a 14 year old? It's a delicate situation but as many here have said, this little family needs therapy more than top surgery, IMO.

As for Jazz, I noticed as she was listening to Peppermint's voicemail, she was grimacing more and more. Yeah Jazz, your fundraiser is now on you, not Peppermint, who is a professional drag artist and I highly doubt she'd want to be associated with Jazz's lazy jankity fundraiser. She said herself, a bad drag show is the worst. She's not going to be a part of that shit, no way. And I too think that production had a strong hand in this fundraiser BS. The cluelessness of Jazz insisting her male family members dress in drag and sashay around a public event is mindboggling. That her brother had to really take a stand because he wasn't comfortable doing drag - I mean, Jazz, self appointed Queen of Queer Rights, cannot see how maaaybe she could have approached that situation with a titch more care and respect for their feelings, instead of barreling into a wig shop, telling them to put on wigs, and then saying, "oh yeah, you're all going to support me and be in this right?!" She really is myopic.

I don't think Jazz will ever go to Harvard, or at least not for her undergrad studies. That whole scene was ridiculous! Jeanette's spoiled brat pouting and eye rolling when Jazz was setting up her decision announcement, and then her subsequent smirk when she heard the word 'Harvard', it was all so self-serving. "Every parent hopes their kid will get into Harvard...It's every parent's dream to say 'my child is going to Harvard'..." Really Jeanette? I guess your other three children are chickenshit and don't count then, huh? I guess one graduating early isn't that impressive, is it? I guess your other kids really don't matter as long as you can pimp out Jazz and remain on some sort of public stage. Uch, this woman irks me no end. Like Jojo's family, the Jennings need extensive family counseling. Jeanette is right, Jazz IS unstable, and unreliable, and undisciplined, and uncommitted, and a lot of other not so great things. But much of that is because of Jeanette's Always Give In parenting approach. Yes it's a fine line when you have a child battling depressions and/or anxiety, especially if they've ever tried or talked about killing themselves. But you, as the parent, have to get yourself serious therapy, along with your child, so you can find ways to parent effectively and not give in to every whim your child has. I know someone close to me who's dealing with this, and the child goes to therapy and her parents each go to therapy, then they meet as a family too, and learning how to parent and discipline a kid with mental illness issues is something you don't do on the fly. And you certainly don't put them on TV to boot.

Jack and Jackie are the only sane people in that family right now. And I think Grandma's got Jazz's number and knows she's lazy and unmotivated and is sorely lacking in social skills and likely will not have a successful or pleasant college experience at a place like Harvard. It's too bad she and her husband didn't speak more forcefully with Jeanette and Greg about this. I mean, they get dragged into every goddamned convo about their granddaughter's genitalia, I think they've earned the right to speak up about stuff like this. I hope they give special/extra attention to the other three kids. Also, it was telling how shocked Jazz's pretend friends were about her not going to Pomona. Honestly? At this point, I think most Admissions offices might be wary of admitting Jazz because if they watch this show it's fairly obvious this is a kid with a lot of issues, and I'm not talking about her gender stuff, just a total lack of follow through, push back whenever anyone tried to teach her anything. Her whole spiel about how she's always been a rebel and gone her own way no matter what others tell her is just her way of justifying her poor, me Me ME decision making.

Can we lobby for this show to end and get a Jazz-free show called Noelle's World? Please???

Amen on EVERY point!!  Well said.

[Otter]

4 hours ago, FurBabyMama said:

Jojo grandma did make a point... jazz waited and grew herself. So why can’t the same thing happen with jojo? Didn’t jazz start estrogen really young, like 11? So it was already more than a year by the time of the consult. I have a hard time buying that she still can’t develop anything more at this stage. Plenty of cis teenage girls are very small As at 15, and to allow your 15 year old to undergo this sort of procedure while they’re still growin  and changing makes no sense. 

Actually, it's a moot point  A surgeon puts him/herself at risk with the FDA if an enhancement surgery is performed on someone so young.  18 minimum for saline, 21 minimum for silicone unless there's a severe deformity.  And "I'm small" isn't a deformity.  No reputable surgeon would consent.  

And cis women have fought for years against defined by our boobs.  Or lack thereof.

 

[kicotan]

4 hours ago, FurBabyMama said:

Jojo grandma did make a point... jazz waited and grew herself. So why can’t the same thing happen with jojo? Didn’t jazz start estrogen really young, like 11?

I’m not for sure but I don’t think jojo went on the puberty blockers that Jazz was on before she started the estrogen regimen.  That alone changes the potential of feminine characteristics when the estrogen regimen is introduced.  If that is incorrect, I apologize.

6 minutes ago, Otter said:

Actually, it's a moot point  A surgeon puts him/herself at risk with the FDA if an enhancement surgery is performed on someone so young.  18 minimum for saline, 21 minimum for silicone unless there's a severe deformity.  And "I'm small" isn't a deformity.  No reputable surgeon would consent.  

And cis women have fought for years against defined by our boobs.  Or lack thereof.

 

I feel bad for Jojo.  I was much like her at her age. Except I was MAYBE an A cup for the one breast that was larger than the other.  I had wide shoulders and long arms and legs-size 14 shirt and a size 6 skirt.  I got my brother’s hand me downs.

It is unfortunate that Jojo’s frustration with her gender nonconformity is based on the ridiculous notion that being/perceiving oneself as female has anything at all to do with cup size.  I had a friend once who was completely flat chested.  After giving birth to a child, even, she went back down to a flat chest-like a boy with big nipples.

[Otter]

5 minutes ago, kicotan said:

It is unfortunate that Jojo’s frustration with her gender nonconformity is based on the ridiculous notion that being/perceiving oneself as female has anything at all to do with cup size.  I had a friend once who was completely flat chested.  After giving birth to a child, even, she went back down to a flat chest-like a boy with big nipples.

Not only trans girls -- puberty sucks!  With all the unrealistic expectations.  Now at 67 y/o I still have boobies that are still kinda perky since I was so flat chested.  Hated it (kind of) as a teen but then grateful once I started adulting.  I did not welcome that sort of attention.

We are not defined by our boobs!  

 

[Joan of Argh]

6 hours ago, FurBabyMama said:

Jojo grandma did make a point... jazz waited and grew herself. So why can’t the same thing happen with jojo? Didn’t jazz start estrogen really young, like 11? So it was already more than a year by the time of the consult. I have a hard time buying that she still can’t develop anything more at this stage. Plenty of cis teenage girls are very small As at 15, and to allow your 15 year old to undergo this sort of procedure while they’re still growin  and changing makes no sense. 

I'm not sure about the growing part but I thought JoJo displayed a lack of maturity and common sense when asked what size.... I think she said a "C" cup.  😲

Good grief JoJo is so tiny she'll look like Dolly Parton.... I think she just wants big boobs and hasn't really thought it through.

[woodscommaelle]

Last episode Peppermint told Jazz that she needed to get a ‘name/well-known’ person for the drag show. I think in Jazz’s mind Peppermint WAS that person.
 

I found it interesting that Jazz had to write a paper to determine which English class she’d be in at Harvard. Is this common or not at all?

 

 

Edited February 27, 2020 by woodscommaelle

[Emmeline]

I will be flabbergasted if Jazz goes away to college and is successful.  Unless of course she can take all her classes from the comfort and security of her dorm room bed.

[Fostersmom]

1 hour ago, woodscommaelle said:

Last episode Peppermint told Jazz that she needed to get a ‘name/well-known’ person for the drag show. I think in Jazz’s mind Peppermint WAS that person.
 

I found it interesting that Jazz had to write a paper to determine which English class she’d be in at Harvard. Is this common or not at all?

 

 

Jazz totally thought Peppermint was going to be the show and bring others with her. 

 

I don't remember if I had to write a paper or not, but I do remember having to take a math placement test. Which was completely useless since I was a special ed major and I had to take math for elementary teachers part I and II. I was also part of the honors program at my university, so its possible I bypassed the writing if there was a paper due to being accepted into that program right out of high school. Oh, and again, special ed major, so I took a couple of  Kiddie Lit classes. 

[princelina]

21 hours ago, Cotypubby said:

How the hell does Jazz think she can raise $15,000 by throwing together a drag show featuring her own family!? Who the hell would pay for that!? It’s so obviously something staged by TLC, I’m going to guess right now that some producer anonymous person will make a sizable donation to give the impression that the drag show worked. Otherwise she’d be lucky to get even $1,000.

I'd say she'd be lucky to get $100.  She's literally trying to charge people money to watch her family do something on stage.  When most little kids do that don't you give them a quarter or something to be nice?  Maybe she'd be lucky to make $10.  Totally agree she thought that Peppermint would just show up with all of her drag queen friends and put on a show.  In the venue that Jazz "might have".

[MsTree]

Not a fan of Jojo's grandmother telling Jojo "It's not all about you".  Yes, it is granny. Who else is looking for implants?

If you're concerned about the cup size, lend your support and maybe suggest a full B cup for now, and later on Jojo can get whatever size she wants.

[Madding crowd]

I’m guessing JoJo’s grandma is her legal guardian since they said she raised her. If she is paying for all or part of the surgery then it is about her too. I think if JoJo is suicidal about not having large breasts, she needs intensive therapy. She has a small frame and will probably get a lot of unwanted attention with breasts that are too big for her frame.

There is also no guarantee that having big breasts will make her happy. And 15 is just too young for this type of surgery. Where do you draw the line for breast implants then? Age 12-13?

Jazz will not succeed at college if she continues to think only her opinions matter and she is the person who gets to dictate everyone else’s life. She will find she cannot tell college professors or other students what to think and do. And considering she is so unhappy herself, she should stay out of JoJo’s life.

[Bastet]

2 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

Jazz will not succeed at college if she continues to think only her opinions matter and she is the person who gets to dictate everyone else’s life. She will find she cannot tell college professors or other students what to think and do.

College can be a great place to learn that when you didn't learn it at home (and to expand on it when you did); Jazz would be far from the first coddled person to come into college with a know-it-all, my way or the highway attitude and come out having made great early strides in the lifelong lesson of how to listen to and interact with people who have different backgrounds, experiences, and perspectives (when and how it's someone to learn from, someone to present a persuasive argument to, or someone to refute and resist). 

[Madding crowd]

I agree with that but if you combine her extreme dependence on her mother, her binge eating and her general unhappiness, I just don’t see a good fit. 

Most teenagers are know it alls to an extent. But most of them have parents, siblings and friends who come out and tell them they are full of it and Jazz has never had that. Anyone who disagrees with her is called a hater. I actually think Jazz is a nice girl who cares about people but she is trapped with fame whore parents who make sure she is surrounded by people who won’t disagree with her and she was raised to be the ultimate spokesperson and expert in the transgender experience and it is not helping her grow up.

[Bastet]

Just now, Madding crowd said:

Most teenagers are know it alls to an extent. But most of them have parents, siblings and friends who come out and tell them they are full of it and Jazz has never had that.

In which case, she needs to get it elsewhere.  Like college.  Or the workplace.  She has to do something outside of her insular bubble.  Maybe the reality check she'd get out in a wider world would also lead her to change her tune on therapy.

[Cotypubby]

Jojo is very pretty the way she is right now. She is tiny, large breasts will look wrong on her. IMO she looks completely female already. I can understand her wanting to have large breasts, a lot of flat-chested cis-girls think the same thing but no reputable surgeon would give them breast implants at that age. She's 15! Her mother needs to listen to grandma and tell her daughter "No, wait until you are 18."

And Jazz needs to butt out since it's not her body, not her family, and not her money that will be used for the surgery.

Edited February 27, 2020 by Cotypubby

[Gigglepuff]

2 hours ago, Cotypubby said:

Jojo is very pretty the way she is right now. She is tiny, large breasts will look wrong on her. IMO she looks completely female already. I can understand her wanting to have large breasts, a lot of flat-chested cis-girls think the same thing but no reputable surgeon would give them breast implants at that age. She's 15! Her mother needs to listen to grandma and tell her daughter "No, wait until you are 18."

And Jazz needs to butt out since it's not her body, not her family, and not her money that will be used for the surgery.

Very true. I was flat as an ironing board when I was a younger teen, then maybe an A cup until my earlyish 20s. I didn't fill out a B cup till my mid 20s when I finally filled out and gained a little weight. 

[Kid]

20 hours ago, Joan of Argh said:

 

Good grief JoJo is so tiny she'll look like Dolly Parton.... I think she just wants big boobs and hasn't really thought it through

Because she is 15!!!   I would’ve killed to have a body like hers when I was 15. Cute body,  cute face, just downright cute.  BTW, I was in A cup when I was a teenager and thought my boobs were too small as well.  By my mid 20s I was a C cup without surgery.

[ClareWalks]

Agreed with all the late bloomers. I was maybe a C cup when I graduated high school. I'm now easily a DD or bigger (I honestly just wear sports bras all the time so I don't even know). It's more of a nuisance than anything else. I find it hard to believe that a trans teen would just totally be done developing at 15 even if typically there isn't much development beyond a year of estrogen. We must also consider that she is on some sort of hormone blockers that she will not need after getting bottom surgery, so she may have a late surge like we did.

[ItsHelloPattiagain]

On 2/25/2020 at 11:19 PM, lgprimes said:

but are you telling me there is NO drag queen community anywhere near where Jazz lives?

I'm rolling my eyes HARD. Jazz lives in Broward County, home of Fort Lauderdale which has a very large and vocal LGTBQ (hope I got that order right) community. There are drag shows everywhere. There's at least one drag club in Fort Lauderdale. They even had Drag Queen Story Time at the local Barnes and Nobles here at several locations. She couldn't recruit any of those folks to help out? 

I also feel bad for Jazz's siblings. Imagine finding your life ruled by your sister's genitalia since you were a kid. I would run so far away from dealing with that. 

[gingerella]

2 hours ago, ItsHelloPattiagain said:

LGTBQ (hope I got that order right)

Allllmost.  It's LGBTQ...Plus there have been additions and some use this:

Quote

The letters LGBTQIA refer to Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer or Questioning, Intersex, and Asexual or Allied.

To be honest, I dont get that A can stand for both Asexual and Allied because they're two completely different things, and the Q is the same because one denotes you identify as Queer and the other denotes that you're Questioning your sexuality. It's complicated, huh?!?

[kicotan]

I just ran across another reason Jeanette is soooooo insistent that Jazz attend Harvard....Pomona didn’t make the list of schools that provide for transgender medical needs-hormones, etc. in their student health insurance plan.

https://www.campuspride.org/tpc/student-health-insurance/

Edited February 28, 2020 by kicotan

[lgprimes]

21 hours ago, ItsHelloPattiagain said:

I'm rolling my eyes HARD. Jazz lives in Broward County, home of Fort Lauderdale which has a very large and vocal LGTBQ (hope I got that order right) community. There are drag shows everywhere. There's at least one drag club in Fort Lauderdale. They even had Drag Queen Story Time at the local Barnes and Nobles here at several locations. She couldn't recruit any of those folks to help out? 

I guess you have to be even smarter than Harvard level intelligence(insert eye sprain level eye roll here) to figure it out