Cheer - General Discussion

[MCMLXXVII]

These were the other two arrested. I vaguely remember Mitchell since the thicker guys tend to stand out.

Other two arrests

Edited January 16, 2022 by MCMLXXVII

[Me from ME]

Incoming unpopular opinion alert...I've watched both seasons and am here to say that I never liked Jerry at all. He seemed like a poseur from the beginning. Not particularly good at cheering but had realized that acting supportive and nice would get him past the obstacle of his non-athleticism. His act turned me off from the beginning and since he persisted he got a position on mat. It's great to be enthusiastic but he was so over the top that seemed to be all he had to offer. So many people bought his act, Monica and Ellen Degeneres to name two.  And he was rewarded for his fakery.

La'darius, on the other hand was labelled by Monica as being "too much" but he was a superb athlete and his antics early in season 1 seemed to signal genuine joy. Yeah, in season 2 the reunion and prolonged hugging with Monica were way too much (boundaries?) and his long justifications of walking away and blaming everyone else were obnoxious and indicated that he is the kind of guy who thinks he is never wrong, but he did have the talent.

Back when Ali was Cassius Clay and a real loud-mouthed self promoter my father who usually didn't like showboating, gave him a pass because he backed up his boasts with action and that is how I view La'darius.

OK fellow Primetimers flame away.

[RachelKM]

Haven't finished this Season yet. But my main takeaway from the first half of the season is that Monica is to blame for COVID because she ordered white uniforms. 

[EarlGreyTea]

18 hours ago, Giant Misfit said:

I wonder if Kailee (I can't with that name) was constantly scrolling her phone instead of interacting with any of the athletes searching for an email from her agent explaining why he had her cast on this show instead of Temptation Island where it looked like she clearly belonged.

That bit of stunt casting was pretty awful.  

Yeah, I wasn't a fan of hers, but she was really, really set up to fail by Monica and Navarro. First of all, she'd been teammates with some of the cheerleaders; she signed on to be an assistant coach, not the stand-in coach, which apparently was sprung on her; and Monica was off in California on teevee. It was a horrible look for Monica. Sure, not many people would turn DWTS down, but at the end of the day, I think she owed it to the employer and her "kids," as she calls them, to have stuck around more. Andy must have fucked up big time to have been tossed out like that, because he would have been the perfect stand-in.

I would bet that she caught COVID while on DWTS, causing further separation from the team.

[DearEvette]

Watched Episode 1:  Overall reaction after S1 - a reminder that Netflix and the makers of this are really damn smart about how to make tv.

Very smart to start the ep with the media/cultural phenom Navarro had become since Season 1. it set the stakes up really nicely because it was awkward and weird to watch all the media love up on the team, esp. Jerry  at the very beginning knowing what we now know. 

Also very smart decision to include TVCC as part of the show.  It makes the season potentially that much more exciting because we are now following a rivalry, instead of simply re-treading already worn ground with Navarro that could become stale.  And although before it might have been a rivalry of the sort where the two teams trade off with one team dominating for awhile only for the other team to dominate for awhile, but now since Season 1 it has become a true David v. Goliath situation because of Netflix. So Netflix redressing that by now including TVCC is a good call.

Also, quite frankly, I was way more interested in TVCC.  The way they introduced them, the contrast they set up between the two teams -- they really made TVCC intriguing and more of an undiscovered country than the now very know Navarro. Vontae is immediately charismatic.  And Jada looks kinda like Kylie Bunbury.

I also found it interesting how the alum guy who got the talking head, Kapena, cautioned about the outside distractions the fame brought.  We saw pieces of that with them talking about commercials and travelling and how Andy made a comment about one of the cheerleaders being very good and Monica immediately brought up her Ellen appearance.  It makes you wonder how prophetic Kapena's observation  is gonna be when it comes to the rest of this season and how stuff plays out.

5 hours ago, jrzy said:

What has puzzled me about this series in general is how long can someone stay in Junior College?  I know 4 year Colleges will have 5 year plans especially for atheletes, but community college?  Would you just keep studying different material?  I just don't get it.

 

There are a combination of different bodies that determine your eligibility to stay in school:

1) The college:  They will  let you stay as long as you need to to get a degree.  A school being a 2 year or 4 year is only generically referred to that way because if you carry a full load each term it would only take you 2 or 4 years to complete.  But in reality, the importance is earning the credits/requirements for the degree, not the time it takes to do so.  If you are a part time student it can take you twice as long.  A less than half time student -- 4 times as long.  The school itself doesn't usually give any time limits as long as you can pay tuition. Some people take one class a semester and finish in 20 years.

2) For athletes the sports governing body:  Depending on the school and the sport governing body there are different eligibility thresholds to continue to be able to compete in your sport.  The long story -- eligibility rules are incredibly byzantine. Short story the I believe if your school is a NJCAA and NAIA, then they limit your sport participation for up to 2 competition/championship seasons.  Hence, someone like Gabi who might have been on Navarro in 2019 and 2020 can come back in 2021 because 2020 championship segment was cancelled due to Covid.  There are also all sorts of petitions that can be filed.  NCAA schools (typically 4 year schools regardless of Division) allow up to five years,  1 red-shirt season (non compete) and 4 competition seasons.

3) Federal Financial Aid:  A hard limit which usually is the main factor in how long you can stay in school.  If you are a full payer and don't have to worry about aid, then you are good.  But if you rely on aid, then there is something called the 150% rule. You are allowed to receive aid up to 150% of the credits required to earn your degree.  This is attempted credits -- not just earned credits, so 'F' grades count in that calculation.  After you have hit the 150% threshold, you are no longer eligible for aid.  Generically speaking this means if you are at a 4 year school (120 credits) you can go for 6 years (up to 180 credits) and if you are at a 2 year school (60 credits) then you can go for 3 years (90 credits).  If you are an athlete receiving a scholarship for your sport, typically those scholarships have to abide by the federal fin aid rules.

[Guest]

13 hours ago, HappyHanna said:

Just dittoing to all this. I have read the argument that "Navarro has won national grand champion" or whatever (which means they have gotten the highest score of all the teams in the competition I guess), so why don't they just compete against the non-Junior college teams then? If other junior colleges can, supposedly, just pick to compete in a different category to avoid them (and TVCC) then why couldn't Navarro (and TVCC) chose to compete in a larger category?  All these two teams do is prep to compete in one competition in Florida, against each other, once a year? And in the meantime the kids basically just hang out in junior college forever and never graduate or move on to the rest of their lives. Makes good tv, I guess...

Their division is based on the type of school they go to so it’s not that simple. They would have a downgrade their skills, have a much smaller team or get rid of the male cheerleaders to have more competition. 
Here’s  the junior college intermediate champion. 
There is an open division but that wouldn’t be a challenge for TVCC or Navarro. 

6 hours ago, jrzy said:

What has puzzled me about this series in general is how long can someone stay in Junior College?  I know 4 year Colleges will have 5 year plans especially for atheletes, but community college?  Would you just keep studying different material?  I just don't get it.

 

There’s no time limit on how long anyone goes to college. My mom spent 20+ years getting her associates degree. In her case that was because she could only go part time while raising 4 kids and working full-time. Part-time probably isn’t an option for the kids on the squad. They are probably double majors or taking electives to pad their schedules. 

2 minutes ago, EarlGreyTea said:

Yeah, I wasn't a fan of hers, but she was really, really set up to fail by Monica and Navarro. First of all, she'd been teammates with some of the cheerleaders; she signed on to be an assistant coach, not the stand-in coach, which apparently was sprung on her; and Monica was off in California on teevee. It was a horrible look for Monica. Sure, not many people would turn DWTS down, but at the end of the day, I think she owed it to the employer and her "kids," as she calls them, to have stuck around more. Andy must have fucked up big time to have been tossed out like that, because he would have been the perfect stand-in.

Andy wasn’t tossed out. He was there for the whole season the show just stopped focusing on him to hype up the Monica abandoned them story. 

I have a feeling that the show was really deceptive with making it look like Monica completely abandoned the team to do DWTS and completely messed with the timeline. At one point long after La Darius had left the team and Monica had apparently returned I noticed Val from DWTS standing next to Monica at a practice. Plus when she was cast on DWTS it was reported that she was going to travel back and forth between LA and Texas.

[Bobcatkitten]

At the end I felt the most for Gillian, who is clearly going to blame herself for the rest of her life for not winning.

[qtpye]

Holy crap…at the episode where we find out why Maddy’s father went to jail. She really is a jewel to come from such a shitty background.

She is smart to get away from them. There are many people who do not understand that bad families are toxic and can easily bring you down.

On 1/15/2022 at 8:44 PM, MCMLXXVII said:

On a shallow note, why does Monica’s hair always look so bad- like a bad home dye job, plus dry and uneven? She looked so pretty with it done in the DWTS clip.
I also hate the flat super black color Gabi and Kailee were rocking- ladies you are not Kardashians- but Monica should have the money to do better. She needs to move past the 90s French mani too for that matter.

Her hair got blonder after coming back from LA and that contributed to it looking even more fried.

I do think she is pretty. She remind me of a young Kathie Lee Gifford.

The women that go into cheerleading fascinate me. They are some unique combination of dancing dolls and powerful body builders. I guess gymnasts are the closest athletes that I could compare them to.

Edited January 18, 2022 by qtpye

[RachelKM]

Okay, finished.  I agree that it's super weird that there are only two teams  less than 50 miles from one another in the division competing as "national champions." The division could add "that can see each other from their respective water towers" to the requirements without altering the division makeup.

In any case, I did enjoy the addition of TVCC to the show. While a tone of stuff happened to Navarro after Season 1 came out (sudden notoriety, DWTS, Jerry (ugh)) to make a story, that story needed the balance of another not tumbling through mayhem to keep the show at least nominally focused on cheering and competing.

That said, I'm having trouble with buying that the whole scenario worked out so perfectly for a narrative.

You have Navarro who has been beating TVCC for the last decade, setting them up as the underdog.* TVCC suddenly decides that they will add Navarro's specialty - higher level choreo - to their advanced tumbling to compete.

Spoiler

Day 1 Daytona (which counts for 25%) of their score, TVCC has some mess ups and Navarro has a "zero." And then TVCC has a zero and Navarro stumbles allowing TVCC to eek by them for the win.

It just seems very convenient for Netflix's story purposes.

Loosely related thought, WTF is the point of Daytona having a Day 1 preliminary round for a competition with only two teams?  It literally just means two teams will do their routines on two consecutive days which will be identical in every way except one time through the routine is weighted more in the final tally. 

*Underdog is apparently relative if it's true the two schools were so dominate that they drove other co-ed large CC teams to switch division types.

On 1/15/2022 at 4:47 PM, SourK said:

t bothered me every time it happened, but the time it bugged me most was with Maddy, where they kept looping through a conversation where Monica was like, "You have to learn to accept my decisions," and Maddy was like, "I accept your decision, but I wish you would have told me privately instead of doing it in a way that made it shocking and embarrassing," and Monica was like, "You have to learn to accept my decisions."

OMG this annoyed  me so much. Woman, she isn't arguing with your decision. The poor girl was just asked for it to be more respectfully handled. You made the decision before they gathered on the mat. You could have told her sooner and not in front of the whole team.

Other times I was slightly more sympathetic to Monica. She made some dubious choices. And if I were a rookie who signed on to Navarro specifically to be on a team coached by Monica only to find out she'd be gone for much of the first semester, I'd be PISSED. That said, Monica was eliminated in October and would have been done by Thanksgiving no matter what. (DWTS runs until the week leading to Thanksgiving. I know this because my best friend was a customer for it and used to head to my house for the holiday immediately after wrap.)

And I feel for all of them who were close with Jerry. I had a similar experience. A person I knew for years, whom I considered a friend and who was best friends with two of my closest friends was arrested for molesting a child.  In the fall out, everyone had to process and reconcile the person we'd known as a friend and this thing knew he had done (he admitted it when confronted).

You would think you would think it would be automatic that you would be horrified and disgusted, and you are.  It's just that, the other feelings don't immediately die. It's like your brain will not put the facts together and accept that this person who did this horrible thing is the same person you knew for 11 years. I got there eventually. But it took months.  Of my friends who were closer with him, they had polar opposite reactions. The one with a family and kids washed her hands of him. The other is still supporting him emotionally and saying things like "he was blackout drunk or he never would have" and "It was just not him."  Only it was him and alcohol does not make you attracted to children.

Edited January 20, 2022 by RachelKM
Typos

[shipmate]

23 hours ago, MCMLXXVII said:

I also hate the flat super black color Gabi and Kailee were rocking- ladies you are not Kardashians

I’m sure Kailee is a great coach and all, but I was so distracted with her Kylie Jenner wannabe physical persona. I don’t get the Kardashian standard of beauty for the kids today (now get off my lawn!)

[rlc]

The weenies earned every inch of their moniker. 
 

I have zero experience in the cheer world, but I’m part of a competitive dance family, and nothing is more of a downer than a kid with talent leaving points on the table for showing zero (or inappropriate) emotion. Even worse to know that they are doing it on purpose. Yes, they are young, but they are old enough to know better.

Why do these girls think that those ridiculous caterpillars on their eyes are attractive? They all look so much better when they are natural than in their glam talking heads.

Maddy is a pretty amazing young woman- hopefully she’s not the big disappointing/shocking story for next season.

Ugh- LaDarius. My take is that he’s just an egomaniac who got salty for not being put in charge of the team instead of Kardashian-light when Monica was on leave. It’s sad because he’s truly talented but he’s letting his attitude stand in his way of success.

Edited January 17, 2022 by rlc

[Conotocarious]

Apparently Ladarius had some sort of IG live and spilled more tea, Monica-related. Ie. that the show contrived for him to go and talk with her at Daytona. 

[QQQQ]

Which team had the "F*** the judges if they don't think we're the best" chant during one of the practices? It wasn't exactly that... but it was close. I remember thinking that seemed like a foolish thing to say.

[Moviesnob]

Just finished S2. I'm almost 40, and spent most of my 30's playing roller derby. It's another sport that takes up a ton of time, puts demands on your body, and you can really get caught up in the cult-aspect of it, as well as the 'family' part of it if you allow it and you're on a team working to get ranked. Derby is all-volunteer thing, there's no school, but you can reach what is considered "pro" levels if you live in the right city and work/practice hard enough.

Cheer made me really miss traveling to tournaments - COVID has basically shut down derby, and those tournament weekends (I played on a team ranked around 120, which you can go to tournaments to play against teams ranked w/n 50 spots of you, and later I coached a Top 10 global team) were the highlights of my derby career. There is no better feeling than working your ass off multiple days a week and seeing it all come together in competition. The doc captured that feeling so well, of being in that same mindset as that small group of people that want what you want just as badly.

I Loved the focus on TVCC in season two. I do think it's INSANE that there are only two teams competing each year. Like I don't even know if I would want to do that, but I guess in this kind of subjectively judged sport, it doesn't really matter? You'd still try to do the same routine/hit same judging points? The short shelf life of the teams definitely puts a new challenge on it, and I can see how that would be different each year.

The filmmakers did a great job with the first half of S2; leading in with how their lives changed after S1 was a great choice. I think it fell flat after COVID came in; I think there wasn't much drama for them to work with in the two eps leading up to Daytona (IE we got a focus on smiling and hair, which I get are important, but I guess there were no injuries or other things to focus on in that timeframe). I'm glad they got to bring in their cameras for the final routines; I thought of how S1 was filmed on cell phones as we watched all the slow-mo and closeups of the Daytona routines.

I am REALLY interested in what's going on with Khris. When his friend said they "brought him into the family" I was like 'wut does that mean?' I thought they were maybe in some kind of poly relationship, but then he talked about that girl he broke up with, and it feels like there's something there I'm missing. But ultimately it's no one's business but his.

[DearEvette]

4 hours ago, RachelKM said:

You have Navarro who has been beating TVCC for the last decade, setting them up as the underdog.* TVCC suddenly decides that they will add Navarro's specialty - higher level choreo - to their advanced tumbling to compete.

I think this is where Netflix gets lucky and probably saw a bit of a a sea change.  From what I can tell via google-fu, the two schools traded championships for years until Monica came along in 2009 and at the same time Trinity kinda imploded.  Navarro had a 7 year streak until 2015 When Vontae came.  He did for Trinity kinda what Monica did for Navarro, he retooled the program and Trinity won for the next two years (2016/2017) then Navarro took it for two more years (2018/2019).  2020 was cancelled.  So now it is Trinity in ascendance again.

[Guest]

Twitter thread with La’Darius’s live allegations. 

Given the source it should be taken with a grain of salt but with happened with Kapena and Andy disappearing I’m inclined to believe there is a lot of truth in this. 

Edited January 17, 2022 by Guest

[DearEvette]

Episode two reminds me of Rocky III where they had Rocky as celebrity doing his bright and glitzy training in Vegas while hob-nobbing with Hollywood people and doing commercials, meanwhile Clubber Lang (Mr. T) is training in his gritty little gym and is hungry to win.  LOL.

I can see why it is a little frustrating for TVCC if the sport has been more spare and athletic for years and slowly went more performative so now they have to adjust their style and recruiting for the purposes of scoring and not necessarily can excel their own style.  I wonder if their particular division had more schools competing if the scoring would have evolved differently?  

I will say I LOVE the shadiness of Brad moving from Navarro to TVCC.  OOhh…DRAMA!

Why is Monica wearing a coat. In a gym. In Texas?

[Irlandesa]

On 1/14/2022 at 10:40 AM, Nancybeth said:

I really liked seeing more of TVCC and understanding how they were different from Navarro. Their tumblers were amazing. I really liked their coaches but I'll be interested to see the reactions to Vontae because I thought he was actually tougher on his team than Monica is on hersAnd his busy life of coaching and judging cheerleading means he hasn't been able to get married and have a family? I need more backstory here.

It seems like every TVCC practice had cheerleaders throwing up into trash cans so I definitely got the sense the practice was tough. 

As for Khris, it wasn't just all of his coaching but he said he had divorce in his family.  So it sounds like he's traumatized by the idea of marriage which is why he's single.  But now he's over it? 

Oh and count me amongst the "I thought they were going to say he was poly" when they introduced his friends and their daughter.

On 1/14/2022 at 2:41 PM, Whimsy said:

one thing I meant to mention is the scoring system. It makes no sense to me that the raw score went up so much for TVCC. whatever, what did they do to make their raw score 98.whatever?  Did they change some skills? 

I didn't quite follow it all but I think Khris said that, because of the collapse of the pyramid, they weren't able to do some elements of the pyramid that they'd normally do and that'd raise the base score they could get.

So they probably got deductions for the elements the judges could see them attempting but no additions or subtractions for the elements they couldn't get to because of the collapse.

On 1/15/2022 at 12:09 PM, auntiemel said:

Lastly...The Weenies. I'm only on the episode where they are introduced, but so far I find them pretty annoying. I don't respond well to people whose attitude is, "I'm way too cool to follow the rules that everyone else has to follow, and that I implicitly agreed to follow by joining this team." Just...ugh.

But if they smile while performing, people might think they're GAY! I really found that angle so interesting because they did try to lay out the contrast between Navarro's "spicy sensibility" (basically gay) with TVCC's "we're not 'real cheerleaders'" attitude. 

17 hours ago, circumvent said:

Part of me sees this as another form of exploitation, even if the boys themselves allegedly decided to come forward publicly. Part of me sees it as brave, a way to not be victimized again, to have a voice. But it worries me that this is not a news show - as bad and sensationalist as many of those are - but a reality show that is clearly doing all they can to cash in by exposing children and young adults who have little to no emotional support to deal with some aspects of the show. If the family is getting any payment for the appearance in the show, money or in kind, I wonder if this might be used against them and benefit Jerry during his trial. To add to my conflict, since Jerry still have defenders, maybe the two kids and their supporters felt like they needed to build up their own network of support. But my feelings tilt in the direction of the move was not appropriate for this particular show

This isn't a news show but I also think this season, especially, has been somewhat above most reality shows.  I feel like this is a docuseries.

And I thought the Jerry episode of the series was handled so well.  The twins got to talk about their experiences with Jerry and what it cost them to speak out.  They weren't just a foot note in Jerry's story; it largely focused on their experience.

And I don't see how this is going to hurt the trial.  In the interview with the FBI, Jerry admitted a lot of stuff. Given those admissions, I don't see a "they're doing it attention" holding much water.

8 hours ago, Dani said:

Andy wasn’t tossed out. He was there for the whole season the show just stopped focusing on him to hype up the Monica abandoned them story. 

Plus when she was cast on DWTS it was reported that she was going to travel back and forth between LA and Texas.

Kaylee mentioned talking to Andy at one point but I don't recall ever seeing him in the 2020-21 season but we did see him in the 2019-2020 pre-COVID stuff.

Didn't dwts go into deep quarantine for the Fall 2020 season?

[RachelKM]

15 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

On 1/14/2022 at 12:41 PM, Whimsy said:

raw score 98.whatever?  Did they change some skills? 

I didn't quite follow it all but I think Khris said that, because of the collapse of the pyramid, they weren't able to do some elements of the pyramid that they'd normally do and that'd raise the base score they could get.

That was my understanding as well. The fall was before they completed elements getting into the pyramid and as as a result they lost those base points plus whatever elements they would had coming out of the pyramid.  So it was a deduction for the fall plus lost points for elements. 

Edited January 17, 2022 by RachelKM

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

Kaylee mentioned talking to Andy at one point but I don't recall ever seeing him in the 2020-21 season but we did see him in the 2019-2020 pre-COVID stuff.

In the last episode there is a reference to something Andy said which makes it clear he was at the competition. Monica also was posting photos with him at that time. If what La’Darius says is true that’s probably the reason Andy appeared to disappear.

I just rewatched La’Darius taking about what happened to refresh my memory and realized that what he says about Monica not knowing the truth about the assistance coaches was him saying something completely different then they made it sound. 

[TrixieTrue]

6 hours ago, QQQQ said:

Which team had the "F*** the judges if they don't think we're the best" chant during one of the practices? It wasn't that... but it was close. I remember thinking that seemed like a foolish thing to say.

This was TVCC and it was something I didn't like. It's hard to know if Navarro has a similar type cheer (they do have the FIOFMU thing, which is somewhat similar). But yeah, I think it's poor sportsmanship. My old cheer coach would have never allowed that. 

Along similar lines, I didn't like that after the basketball game, Vontae was yelling "Ya'll lost" to the Navarro cheer team. I thought that was in really poor taste. The coach should be held to higher standards. 

[circumvent]

5 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

And I thought the Jerry episode of the series was handled so well.  The twins got to talk about their experiences with Jerry and what it cost them to speak out.  They weren't just a foot note in Jerry's story; it largely focused on their experience.

And I don't see how this is going to hurt the trial.  In the interview with the FBI, Jerry admitted a lot of stuff. Given those admissions, I don't see a "they're doing it attention" holding much water.

Like I said, I am conflicted.

The thing is, this might never get to trial. Most cases are resolved by reaching a deal. Then the exposure of the kids makes it all terrible for them. That's why I think the whole situation lacked some guidance. 

The other issue is just statistics. Confession or not, the track record of the FBI is mediocre when it comes to how they conduct themselves. Sometimes, with a "good attorney" (scare quotes because good and merciless are not mutually exclusive), cases are dismissed based on misconduct. Plus, the judge can just intervene. Even though Jerry is not a white man - those who get away with rape because the judges feel so sorry for them - if the family is influential in the community, then he has points in his favor. I have no idea if that's the case.

Point is, there is a lot that can happen and the boys are what, 15 at the time of the interview? Too young to be exposing themselves to all kinds of scrutiny and hate, their privacy gone, and maybe it will only affect their lives negatively. Hopefully they are getting the support they need away from the spotlight now.

[charmed1]

Count me in on the “Khris…WTF? train.” And then when they showed up in Daytona to surprise him by having the little girl run up to him first all while the dad was standing back recording. Weird.

I liked Vontae and the TVCC team. I think Vontae exhibited a much more appropriate relationship with his athletes than Monica. None of the athletes were deifying him or referring to him as their father. He provided a healthy balance of coaching and mentorship from what I could see.

I appreciated the time they spent focusing on Jada’s (keep wanting to call her Aaliyah) mental block, which we all know now, thanks to Simone Biles, isn’t just something she could suck up and move on from. I wished they’d spent more time on that. I also wish they’d focused more on the amazing Angel. She’s a freaking Guinness World Record holder! And I loved how she rocked her box braids and curled them to match the team. Good on Vontae for not having her take them out.

I too wonder what the academic and career aspirations are for these student athletes. Morgan had already collected more than one Associates degree and she was still at Navarro. Ty-Ty and one of the guys from TVCC look older than Vontae. I hope they have good academic advisors at these schools. 

Oh, and Monica pretending like she didn’t know who Dee was. Girl, you know you were trying to recruit him. You know his name. Cut it out.

And the squad practicing indoors in nearly 100 degree temperatures immediately brought Jordan McNair to mind. He was a football player for the University of Maryland who collapsed and died from a heat stroke a couple of years ago. His parents sued the school.

Edited January 17, 2022 by charmed1

[marny]

In the Jerry episode, Monica kept wiping her eyes as if she was crying but there were no tears at all. Her eyes were completely dry. She seems to care about these kids only insofar as they can help her coaching reputations. Once that purpose ends, they’re dead to her. I’m sure she was upset about how Jerry’s crimes impacted Navarro’s reputation and the team’s PR opportunities, but she sure didn’t seem to be shedding tears over him as a person. 

[ponyglue]

damn Monica really let that fame go to her head and full on abandoned her team for dancing with the stars.  I'd be pissed too if I came to school to be coached by her and she left for a FULL SEMESTER?!?!? I mean what the actual fuck? Why was she even allowed a leave of absence from her job??? Oh right because Texas educational system sucks.  lol LaDarius was rightfully triggered from being abandoned without any word even because fucking dancing with the stars wouldn't let her announce it? oh wow you are a piece of work Monica.  You're a coach and you have to BE THERE for your athletes.  And get your fucking leg off the desk when talking about Jerry she's so obviously protecting herself and watching her try to bring up emotion is painful.  What a gross fame whore.

[thehorseofpower]

I had no idea this show existed until two days ago and I promptly binged the entire series, finishing up last night. Soooo much to digest with this!

The more that comes out about elite/high level sport of any kind, the more harmful I tend to think it all is to the athletes taking part. Recreational sports have great potential to teach participants all kinds of things, from the rewards of hard work, to being a team player, to time management skills. But there seems to come a point of diminishing returns where, when participation has taken over all of an athlete's free time and drives all of their future plans, these good things are overshadowed by horrible injuries, practices with dangerous conditions, coaches with way too much power over the athletes, parents or entire families staking their futures/self-worth on the success of the athlete, decisions that would be in the long-term interest of the athlete's mental, physical, or educational well-being being put off or dismissed so the athlete can continue full participation in the sport. The creation of a very insular culture for the athlete as far as all of their time being spent in the same small circle of team/gym/coach/competitors, with limited connection to people outside the sport, seems to make young people with difficult backgrounds or simply limited real world exposure ripe for the picking of any predators who may be within that circle, and serves as an effective silencer on them ever speaking out as they then lose absolutely everything they have built their life around if they aren't believed. I saw basically all of these issues playing out across the two seasons of this show, and as much as the first season gave me warm fuzzies to see what appeared to be a tough but good-hearted coach bringing a feeling of family and success to so many young people with difficult childhoods, by the end of the second season I was left feeling super uncomfortable with the "coach has too much power over her athletes" issue standing out to me quite a bit.

Monica's closeness to many of the athletes seemed great at first, what with all of these kids desperately seeking a mother figure seemingly finding that in her and all talking about how they would "take a bullet" for her.  But...her having that type of power over these athletes is also super dangerous if she is anything less than scrupulous in protecting their well-being. We saw her working them so hard on dangerous stunts that three flyers ended up with concussions after one practice, and her rehearsing them in 90 degree heat over and over again. If they would take a bullet for her, what else might they do if she asked them to, beyond what we were shown of them not pushing back on what looked like dangerous practice sessions that could easily have ended in greater disaster than what we saw? I read the Twitter post shared above detailing La'Darius's accusations, some against Monica, and while I hope they are untrue, I believe they could happen based on the amount of power she was shown to hold over her athletes, combined with her obviously intense desire to win (did anyone really believe her when she said she didn't want or need to win for herself, but just wanted it so badly for the athletes? I sure didn't). With great power comes great responsibility and all that...and too often it seems when you allow such power over others to reside with someone as driven to win as Monica, that has the potential to result in some really bad decisions and bad outcomes for the athletes.

[Bobcatkitten]

I can't believe I forgot to say how annoyed I was at Dee. And I don't understand why they didn't slap him down a little. Dude, you don't have to be flamboyantly gay. You can just smile like a normal person instead of looking like a sullen asshole.

[Stiggs]

On 1/16/2022 at 12:57 PM, Me from ME said:

Incoming unpopular opinion alert...I've watched both seasons and am here to say that I never liked Jerry at all. He seemed like a poseur from the beginning. Not particularly good at cheering but had realized that acting supportive and nice would get him past the obstacle of his non-athleticism. His act turned me off from the beginning and since he persisted he got a position on mat. It's great to be enthusiastic but he was so over the top that seemed to be all he had to offer. So many people bought his act, Monica and Ellen Degeneres to name two.  And he was rewarded for his fakery.

No flames here. :) I really liked Jerry because of his back story, and remember thinking it would be nice if he was actually better at the whole cheer thing because he sure had the spirit. And I saw that sort of surface and fake "gurl!" way that he acted as a way to keep people at arm's length because of trauma he experienced as a child. And wow, now we know his facade was covering up something horrible and dark. Watching his ego take hold in season 2 was haunting but also well done. The Cameo video recording during the pedi while complaining that the colors weren't interesting enough spoke volumes. 

When a college friend of mine - a damn good friend of mine - got arrested for child porn about 10 years after college, my college friend group all at first had the same reaction: There must be some mistake. It's a bit earth-rocking to find out that someone you used to share countless joints with while watching a billion hours of Monty Python was a pedophile the entire time, and you had no idea. When he admitted to all of it, I puked. For me, it was an immediate "that scumbag is dead to me I hope he gets hit by a bus" response. But there were friends who were like Gabi and said, "But he's still my friend I can't not be there for him," and it fractured our group. I can't be okay with someone who is okay with someone who did that. And I have 5 years of amazing memories with a monster. It's messed up. (Oh and he did 4 MONTHS in jail. Don't get me started...)

On a lighter note, why don't they just make this whole series about the yearly showdown between the two schools? Monica vs. Vontae? I would watch the shit out of that for infinity. Who's gonna win this year? Jr. college A or B who have the same colors? There's clearly enough local support, or at least enough local support that want to be on TV.  

Ah, Khris... I forgot about his "there's divorce in my family" thing, like, "there's alcoholism in my family so I don't drink." Like, it's a foregone conclusion that he'll get divorced if he gets married and that his wife will never understand his dedication to junior college cheering? I mean, I realize that we have patterns and that divorce has life-long impacts on children well into adulthood, so I don't want to minimize any divorce trauma Khris may have, but like, were his parents Brangelina? 

Also, Cassadee and Gillian were like a bright little light of goodness, and I would have happily traded the werido Monica/La'Darious crying and hysterics for more of them. I seriously could have used a lot more of Cassadee playing self-esteem coach for her BFF. They reminded me just how magic and precious girl/women friendships are at all ages. Given her T&T beginnings, I have a feeling Cassadee's next journey might involve being The Bachelorette or a Real Houswewife, heh, but I'll watch. 

 

 

[SourK]

19 hours ago, Moviesnob said:

I am REALLY interested in what's going on with Khris. When his friend said they "brought him into the family" I was like 'wut does that mean?' I thought they were maybe in some kind of poly relationship, but then he talked about that girl he broke up with, and it feels like there's something there I'm missing. But ultimately it's no one's business but his.

I think he's just the Uncle Joey of the situation. IE, your best friend from college whom you've stayed close with, and he moves in and becomes part of your family like Full House. It's not super common, and it usually doesn't last forever, but I've heard of people doing this before.

3 hours ago, thehorseofpower said:

The more that comes out about elite/high level sport of any kind, the more harmful I tend to think it all is to the athletes taking part. ... I saw basically all of these issues playing out across the two seasons of this show, and as much as the first season gave me warm fuzzies to see what appeared to be a tough but good-hearted coach bringing a feeling of family and success to so many young people with difficult childhoods, by the end of the second season I was left feeling super uncomfortable with the "coach has too much power over her athletes" issue standing out to me quite a bit.

I also feel kind of weird about it. On the one hand, it's great that kids from rough backgrounds are able to find something they love that they excel at and have the opportunity to develop from participating. One the other hand, it's kind of creepy.

The thing I found most off-putting was the way that no one was allowed to have time or space to process their emotions alone. That may have been partly because there was a camera there, but it seemed like every time anyone was even a little bit not in the hive mind, everyone else started buzzing around them, literally chasing them from room to room, pressuring them to confess what they were feeling and process it with the group.

I also didn't love the thing where they all stand around in a clump and take turns passive-aggressively complaining about how other people don't have the right spirit, and don't love the sport enough, and have the wrong vibes.

I guess what I'm saying is that there was a very poor sense of boundaries, at least on Navarro, and I found it kind of weird how deeply people were being absorbed into the group.

 

[Irlandesa]

1 hour ago, Stiggs said:

On a lighter note, why don't they just make this whole series about the yearly showdown between the two schools? Monica vs. Vontae? I would watch the shit out of that for infinity.

I wonder if that was the initial plan but TVCC said no.  They were already reluctant to let their cheerleaders do All Stars. But when they saw how the first season was done, they changed their minds and agreed to come on board.

[absolutelyido]

10 hours ago, charmed1 said:

 I too wonder what the academic and career aspirations are for these student athletes. Morgan had already collected more than one Associates degree and she was still at Navarro. Ty-Ty and one of the guys from TVCC look older than Vontae. I hope they have good academic advisors at these schools. 

For people like Lexi, Morgan and Gabi, I think their career aspiration is social media influencer, which I actually think they can make a pretty decent income from (at least for a while).

I just finished watching S2, and I absolutely hated the way they edited the Daytona routines. How is it possible that I invested several hours in watching teams prepare for Daytona, and I feel like I never actually got to see their performances? They way they would focus in on a few people at a time, and cut to the audience frequently, I didn't really get a sense of the full performances. I had to go and watch them on youtube. After I did, it became more apparent why TVCC won. Their program seemed to flow better and their stunts looked harder to me.

[morgan459]

1 hour ago, Stiggs said:

Also, Cassadee and Gillian were like a bright little light of goodness, and I would have happily traded the werido Monica/La'Darious crying and hysterics for more of them. I seriously could have used a lot more of Cassadee playing self-esteem coach for her BFF. They reminded me just how magic and precious girl/women friendships are at all ages. Given her T&T beginnings, I have a feeling Cassadee's next journey might involve being The Bachelorette or a Real Houswewife, heh, but I'll watch. 

 

 

I loved Cassadee and Gillian's relationship. They were the bright spot that really helped me get through the darkness of the Navarro scenes in the second half of the season. 

[Conotocarious]

40 minutes ago, absolutelyido said:

For people like Lexi, Morgan and Gabi, I think their career aspiration is social media influencer, which I actually think they can make a pretty decent income from (at least for a while).

I just finished watching S2, and I absolutely hated the way they edited the Daytona routines. How is it possible that I invested several hours in watching teams prepare for Daytona, and I feel like I never actually got to see their performances? They way they would focus in on a few people at a time, and cut to the audience frequently, I didn't really get a sense of the full performances. I had to go and watch them on youtube. After I did, it became more apparent why TVCC won. Their program seemed to flow better and their stunts looked harder to me.

I did the same thing. I was surprised by how the mistake Navarro made was actually pretty difficult to see in real time.

[DearEvette]

Ok, I finished the whole thing and I have thoughts....

RIVALRY: I really enjoyed the make up us this season with the rivalry.  I will say that Netflix was really pouring it on with the underdog narrative that came right out of Hollywood from Monica having her stage built vs. TVCC doing their outdoor prep on asphalt with some glass on it up through to Daytona with Navarro flying there and having a massive ballroom to see scores vs. TVCC bussing it there and in their cramped little room.  It worked, but I couldn't help but cackle at the drama of it all.

TVCC:

11 hours ago, charmed1 said:

I liked Vontae and the TVCC team. I think Vontae exhibited a much more appropriate relationship with his athletes than Monica. None of the athletes were deifying him or referring to him as their father. He provided a healthy balance of coaching and mentorship from what I could see.

Agreed.  I loved them.  I loved Vontae.  I loved that they were channeling some major Clovers realness.  I was rooting for them and not just because they were underdogs, but their vibe and the way the show positioned the atmosphere that Vontae and Khris created as a coach.

JERRY:  Wow.  I just don't have the words to talk through that ep.  I will say I was over the Monica and Gabi tears.  He is a child predator. A molester.  Save your tears.  I am team blonde lady lawyer who had no sympathy for Monica's pain.  Also I have never understood the love for Jerry even last year.  His unrelenting cheerfulness was just creepy.  And I am not just saying that after the fact.  I felt that after his popularity blew up and I just never saw it.  It reminds me of that Key and Peele sketch where they are aerobic dancers who are smiling and dancing and the producer is off screen showing Key message cards informing him that his wife and kid got hit by a car and to keep smiling.  His smile becomes this fixed rictus.  That is what I see when I see Jerry. Also the court illustrations made him look like Jonah Hill.  LOL.

LADARIUS: Not gonna lie.  I felt bad for this kid.  There were points when you could see that he was smart and incisive and had a level of self awareness that needed to be nurtured. He also made some very salient points wrt to their team that Monica would pooh-pooh only to come to realize later he was right. And the pile on by his team was ridiculous especially since they didn't give Jerry any smoke, just tears.  Jerry's effect on the rep of their program is 1000x more harmful than any Insta stories Ladarius made and yet he was vilified by them.  We got every talking head calling him out. The fact that Monica couldn't recognize that her abandonment of him was the reason for his acting out raised so many red flags for me about her... more than had already been raised before. Which leads me to ...

MONICA:  I have to say my opinion of her plummeted in season 2.  It just seemed like her coaching style did not seem to maintain an acceptable  player - to - coach barrier,.  Does that make sense?   Sometimes her criticisms or interactions comes of as a little juvenile or unbecoming.  For instance, Her comment to Taylor (one of the girls who didn’t make mat) about being pissy came off as mean spirited and felt like a moment to pointedly  embarrass one person rather than to  make a point about team cohesiveness,  Why not just call out the air of negativity in general and then reprimand Taylor specifically in her office?  Another example when she said to the team "Until you win 14 national college championships I really don’t need your opinion.” Or when she got mad at Ladarius for going to a cheer competition wanting to somehow take action against him for 'wearing their uniform' (it was a tee-shirt, girl).  She just came off as less like a coach but rather a mean girl.

THE WEENIES: Two levels going on here with what I feel is an important conversation.  On the one hand it makes sense if all you've ever known was to do tumbles/stunts and you’ve gone to national championships with a cheer club and you've won on the strength of your tumble/stunts with no need to perform,  the need to do so can be a case of really pulling you out of your comfort zone.  Otoh, their inclusion here is important conversation about masculinity and cheer that was completely absent last season with the Navarro (primarily black) male cheerleaders that were heavily featured being flamboyant. Cheer has never, ever been coded as a masculine endeavor and it is understandable they have internalized that long held (and honestly still held) belief.  And having Netflix cheer showcasing Ladarius and Jerry so prominently was entrenching that belief even more.   But this season having Vontae as a coach and modeling that it is ok to perform and still be coded as masculine is an important part of their development and perception of the sport.  I liked how when he was done with Dee's antics he and the rest of the coaches made it clear it would not be acceptable he would be replaced. And honestly, I liked that including Vontae Netflix seems to have read the room  and is redressing this issue.  And by reaching such a broad audience may go a long way toward opening up that perception.

DAYTONA AND SCORING: I am a data analyst by profession and I have to say Khris' break down of the scoring and how the difficulty and weights were used to come up with raw score made my data loving heart grow three sizes.  It was such a great way to raise morale for the team after they messed up.  Science, Bitch!  Meanwhile we have Monica.  Her explanation vs Khris’ analysis was very telling.  She very simplistically looked at the raw score and called it ‘confusing’ … I don’t know if she was just doing it for the cameras and didn’t want to get into it or if she was just a bad communicator or if it was how Netflix decided to present it, but as a viewer it felt like she wasn’t as knowledgeable about the numbers and data and scoring he was.  At the end when they were waiting for the winner announcement, her calculations were all off.  I looked up the prelim and final scores.  Gabi's father had it dead on what minimum score TVCC needed to win.  Monica otoh, insisted they needed a 98.7 to win.  No.  Just no.  A 98.7 would not have been enough for TVCC to win.   If it really is the case she isn't as savvy about the numbers, it is odd for a person who has been in the sport for as long as she has to be that ignorant of something so important.

1 hour ago, absolutelyido said:

I just finished watching S2, and I absolutely hated the way they edited the Daytona routines. How is it possible that I invested several hours in watching teams prepare for Daytona, and I feel like I never actually got to see their performances? They way they would focus in on a few people at a time, and cut to the audience frequently, I didn't really get a sense of the full performances. I had to go and watch them on youtube.

Yup.  Did the same thing.  TVCC ATE!

ANGEL RICE:  Holy Shit. She was awesome.

KAILEE PEPPERS -I am (maybe) ashamed to say I immediately took a dislike to her because of her plastic Kardashian facem make up.  And the fact that she has a stripper name.  I feel (maybe) terrible about that.

Edited January 18, 2022 by DearEvette

[cmahorror]

I was instantly turned off by TVCCs before competition cheer of basically screw the judges because they are wrong if we don't win. Wrong. If you don't win, and I say this as someone who has won and lost her fair share of singing competitions, it is because you weren't the best. Don't blame the judges for your mistakes or doing their jobs. 

Or as said in The Good Place:

Eleanor: This doesn't make me look good so don't judge me.

Michael: That is literally my job.

 

Also, do not complain that the other team got a second chance because one of their cheerleaders was injured during the performance. They were allowed to do so per the rules and they had to regroup and recover from an upsetting incident in a short amount of time. Accept you lost. Those grapes, they are sour.

 

Fame is a double-edged sword - the cheerleaders and coaches from Navarro are learning that one the hard way.

I am taking Ladarius's claims with a grain of salt. Do I believe hazing goes on - absolutely. Do I believe all the claims he submitted - no. Some of them were so outrageous and he does have something to gain from this controversy - a book deal. A few juicy tidbits, especially about Jerry and the dark side of Navarro, and he could get a good book deal no problem. Ladarius is many things, but stupid is not one of them.

Monica may have overstepped but at least she did try to spread the wealth among the cheerleaders. She set up opportunities for them, going out of her way to recommend them for different things, and tried to help them capitalize on this moment. 

Monica has been consistent on making changes to routines in front of everyone, including pulling people out of the routine - Maddy is not special. She is still on mat and still a part of the routine. She acted like she was completely removed from the routine instead of understanding that this was best for the team. I understand being upset but not to the point that she ran off crying like she did. Suck it up and breakdown later with your friends at home. There were 20 other people desperate for your slot - be grateful for what you have.

As always, YMMV, it's just my opinion.

 

Edited January 18, 2022 by cmahorror

[snarts]

Both Navarro & TVCC are public community colleges, correct? I was curious why Navarro had the budget to fly to Orlando, stay in the oceanfront Hilton & rent out their ballroom. Meanwhile, TVCC rode a bus for 20 hours, stayed in a Hampton Inn and had to cram in one room to see the results. 

Aren't the athletes/programs governed by the same NCAA regulations or is Navarro able to have corporate sponsors foot the bill?

Surprised myself by being happy TVCC won. I liked the team story but wasn't really interested in any of them individually, aside from Khris. I also want to more on the backstory of Brad's move to the other side. 

[RachelKM]

8 hours ago, DearEvette said:

Also I have never understood the love for Jerry even last year.  His unrelenting cheerfulness was just creepy.  And I am not just saying that after the fact.  I felt that after his popularity blew up and I just never saw it.  It reminds me of that Key and Peele sketch where they are aerobic dancers who are smiling and dancing and the producer is off screen showing Key message cards informing him that his wife and kid got hit by a car and to keep smiling.  His smile becomes this fixed rictus.  That is what I see when I see Jerry. Also the court illustrations made him look like Jonah Hill.  LOL.

 

I can't say I didn't like him at all or found him creepy. But I was with you as to finding his relentless (and extremely loud) cheerfulness off-putting.  I liked Jerry well enough in first season but more for his optimism and his apparent work ethic.  I found his affect grating. 

In retrospect, you had the more prescient response not just because he was in fact a predator; but because, even now, if Monica's description of his letter to her is accurate, he continues to be maniacally optimistic in a disturbing way.

8 hours ago, cmahorror said:

Monica has been consistent on making changes to routines in front of everyone, including pulling people out of the routine - Maddy is not special. She is still on mat and still a part of the routine. She acted like she was completely removed from the routine instead of understanding that this was best for the team. I understand being upset but not to the point that she ran off crying like she did. Suck it up and breakdown later with your friends at home. There were 20 other people desperate for your slot - be grateful for what you have.

I understand this perspective.  However, Maddy was new to the team and would not known that.  If Monica had said, "I make changes as I need to and sometimes I decide that change is needed in the middle of practice or even a specific rehearsal. I'm not going to stop practice or delay the change til we have time to speak."  I would have thought it was a bit harsh, but fair.  What bothered me was that Monica didn't actually address Maddy's complaint. Instead she told Maddy not to question her decisions for the team.  Maddy hadn't done that. She only objected to the manner and timing of delivery; which, as you say, is Monica's style but that was not necessarily known to Maddy as a rookie. Even if she had witnessed it a handful of times it may not have really registered. 

Ultimately Maddy's real issue was twofold: 1) She was used to being the best at everything and now she was in a place where everyone was the best at everything and if you didn't perform to your ability, there were at least 3 girls who could do the job. And 2), and this is related, she wasn't used to any sort of failure, perceived or otherwise, at this thing she had always been good at.  So was she mostly crying due to the shock and embarrassment of those two things and, yeah, that it happening in the open made it worse for her.

I don't necessarily think that Monica had to change (though if she had made the decision before practice, a quick aside to Maddy that they were changing her role would have been appropriate), but her ignoring the issue altogether and pretending that Maddy was questioning her decisions about the routine was obnoxious. And I have a lot more sympathy and room for the 18 year old in that exchange than the 40/50 year old woman.

Edited January 18, 2022 by RachelKM
Typos

[dmmetler]

On 1/14/2022 at 7:13 AM, Whimsy said:

Showcasing these two teams is still so weird to me. I mean, they are performing really amazing routines. But they’re the only two teams in their division. I mentioned during season 1 and I’m mentioning it again because it’s just so weird. Monica winning 14 times against only one other team just isn’t as impressive as another team winning multiple times in a division that has at least four teams.  

Here’s the schedule for day 1.  Navarro and TVCC’s division is on the first page right after the lunch break. I can’t pull up just the printed list for day two, but you can use the searchable form on this page, if you’re interested. 

Actually, all of the divisions are really small. Guess I’m just used to the all-star cheer divisions where sometimes there’s double digits competing. It just seems weird to me that there aren’t more teams competing. 

In UCA, which is the other college cheer competition (and where the bare midriffs and more all star flash wouldn't fly), JC's are in the"open" division with Smaller 4 year schools. There's more competition there. Northern MS CC would be the current Champion in the equivalent division (Open Coed Traditional). Open schools, both 2 and 4 year, tend to get a lot of tall girls and short boys-IE, the kids who don't meet the body types that the schools that cheer in D1 and D1a do. 

UCA doesn't have an equivalent rivalry to Navarro/TVCC in the Open division, but the past series Cheerleader U focused on some of the top DI teams, like Kentucky and UCF. 

[bilgistic]

4 hours ago, DearEvette said:

KAILEE PEPPERS -I am (maybe) ashamed to say I immediately took a dislike to her because of her plastic Kardashian facem make up.  And the fact that she has a stripper name.  I feel (maybe) terrible about that.

Instant hate over here. Her Instagram is ridiculous. She has filters on every picture, and most if them make her face look orange and masklike. She's got ~45K followers, and I can't figure out why or how. Her talking heads with her hoodie draped off her shoulder just so had my eyes rolled to the heavens. So fucking fake. She and Gabi are kindred spirits. Fake, fake, fake.

In other news, someone please tell Monica, the "14-time national champ", the difference between a bandshell and a stage. They aren't the same thing, lady.

I've never rented a stage (that stage set up in a parking lot wasn't permanent!), but there's no way it cost $100K.

Whatever goodwill Monica built up with me in the first season was shattered this season. Her getting fake emotional about how she couldn't do anything about what was going on at home with Jerry and the fallout with the team because she was at Dancing With the Stars? YOU COULD HAVE LEFT AND GONE HOME AND TAKEN CARE OF YOUR TEAM. I don't care if there was a contract or whatever. What was more important? Being on a TV show or with the team of teenagers and young adults who count on her? She is absolutely a mean girl and has poor management skills.

Edited January 18, 2022 by bilgistic

[Irlandesa]

6 hours ago, absolutelyido said:

How is it possible that I invested several hours in watching teams prepare for Daytona, and I feel like I never actually got to see their performances?

I'm going to take a guess here but I suspect its due to who has the rights to air the competition.  Last year, we only got bits and pieces from the phones.  I thought then it was probably because of rights.   I think more recently, it was negotiated that they could have professional cameras filming the routines but they couldn't air them in their entirety as to not interfere with any exclusive filming partnerships Daytona or the governing body has to carry that competition.

TVCC did have a more complex routine.  And it was fast.  No wonder everyone was throwing up at practice.

5 hours ago, snarts said:

Both Navarro & TVCC are public community colleges, correct? I was curious why Navarro had the budget to fly to Orlando, stay in the oceanfront Hilton & rent out their ballroom. Meanwhile, TVCC rode a bus for 20 hours, stayed in a Hampton Inn and had to cram in one room to see the results. 

Aren't the athletes/programs governed by the same NCAA regulations or is Navarro able to have corporate sponsors foot the bill?

They probably have boosters and since Monica has been the coach for so many years, she probably has built up quite a list of financial supporters.  I could see how she'd be good at it.

I don't blame Monica for not returning home to the team once the Jerry news broke. I do think she should have said she was taking a sabbatical for a trimester instead of saying she was going to be gone "a few weeks" knowing that it'd likely be much of the fall.

Edited January 18, 2022 by Irlandesa

[qtpye]

12 hours ago, thehorseofpower said:

I had no idea this show existed until two days ago and I promptly binged the entire series, finishing up last night. Soooo much to digest with this!

The more that comes out about elite/high level sport of any kind, the more harmful I tend to think it all is to the athletes taking part. Recreational sports have great potential to teach participants all kinds of things, from the rewards of hard work, to being a team player, to time management skills. But there seems to come a point of diminishing returns where, when participation has taken over all of an athlete's free time and drives all of their future plans, these good things are overshadowed by horrible injuries, practices with dangerous conditions, coaches with way too much power over the athletes, parents or entire families staking their futures/self-worth on the success of the athlete, decisions that would be in the long-term interest of the athlete's mental, physical, or educational well-being being put off or dismissed so the athlete can continue full participation in the sport. The creation of a very insular culture for the athlete as far as all of their time being spent in the same small circle of team/gym/coach/competitors, with limited connection to people outside the sport, seems to make young people with difficult backgrounds or simply limited real world exposure ripe for the picking of any predators who may be within that circle, and serves as an effective silencer on them ever speaking out as they then lose absolutely everything they have built their life around if they aren't believed. I saw basically all of these issues playing out across the two seasons of this show, and as much as the first season gave me warm fuzzies to see what appeared to be a tough but good-hearted coach bringing a feeling of family and success to so many young people with difficult childhoods, by the end of the second season I was left feeling super uncomfortable with the "coach has too much power over her athletes" issue standing out to me quite a bit.

Monica's closeness to many of the athletes seemed great at first, what with all of these kids desperately seeking a mother figure seemingly finding that in her and all talking about how they would "take a bullet" for her.  But...her having that type of power over these athletes is also super dangerous if she is anything less than scrupulous in protecting their well-being. We saw her working them so hard on dangerous stunts that three flyers ended up with concussions after one practice, and her rehearsing them in 90 degree heat over and over again. If they would take a bullet for her, what else might they do if she asked them to, beyond what we were shown of them not pushing back on what looked like dangerous practice sessions that could easily have ended in greater disaster than what we saw? I read the Twitter post shared above detailing La'Darius's accusations, some against Monica, and while I hope they are untrue, I believe they could happen based on the amount of power she was shown to hold over her athletes, combined with her obviously intense desire to win (did anyone really believe her when she said she didn't want or need to win for herself, but just wanted it so badly for the athletes? I sure didn't). With great power comes great responsibility and all that...and too often it seems when you allow such power over others to reside with someone as driven to win as Monica, that has the potential to result in some really bad decisions and bad outcomes for the athletes.

I wish I could like your post a million times!!!

Word to everything you said. 

Cheerleading seems to sometimes be an unholy marriage of the worst of dance and gymnastics culture, including the almost cult like mentality.

The lack of any type of protective gear, the dangerous stunts, and probably a large pressure to "cheer through the pain".

All of this so you can beat one other community college that is about 30 miles from your school?

Can you make a living from this sport...besides teaching and coaching? No shade, I am just asking. 

I know the professional NFL cheerleaders get paid nothing. Also, they are more of the dancer Barbie doll types and not the tiny powerhouse girls we see on this show.

I understand passion and not everything is about money. However, how is Navarro (sp?) ranked as a community college? Is a degree from there worth something?

I felt like that one man did not really have a life (living with his friend's, also a former cheerleader, family) because he was married to cheer.

I guess there are worse things to base your life around.

 

[novemberjenny]

7 hours ago, DearEvette said:

KAILEE PEPPERS -I am (maybe) ashamed to say I immediately took a dislike to her because of her plastic Kardashian facem make up.  And the fact that she has a stripper name.  I feel (maybe) terrible about that.

Don’t feel bad. I immediately hated her D+ Corsicana Kylie Jenner look, too. Literally everything about her look is just so UGH to me.

I hate the crop tops (tf is the point of a turtleneck sweater crop top?) I HATE her 2 inch long square nails (my mother calls nails like that “ass diggers”)  the dyed and overprocessed waist-length black hair (waist length hair doesn’t look good on ANYONE, ever.) the inch thick pancake makeup that isn’t matched to her skin tone and don’t even get me started on those damn lashes! 
 

I’m a nice person I swear 🤣

[novemberjenny]

3 hours ago, bilgistic said:

Instant hate over here. Her Instagram is ridiculous. She has filters on every picture, and most if them make her face look orange and masklike. She's got ~45K followers, and I can't figure out why or how. Her talking heads with her hoodie draped off her shoulder just so had my eyes rolled to the heavens. So fucking fake. She and Gabi are kindred spirits. Fake, fake, fake.

Sorry for the double post I forget how to edit my post with a quote 🤦🏻‍♀️  So of course I had to go on her Instagram and see this for myself, and wow. Her selfies are so edited to hell and back that she literally looks like Kylie Jenner and Michael Jackson had an orange baby. And oof, the lip fillers. 🥴

[circumvent]

13 hours ago, absolutelyido said:

How is it possible that I invested several hours in watching teams prepare for Daytona, and I feel like I never actually got to see their performances? 

I think t was said in one episode that only one channel has the rights ot show the whole thing, they will not allow anyone to show the whole performance

I know nothing about cheerleading, I never watched any cheerleading live, I think it is dangerous and I know it can cause permanent damage to the brains of the girls who get tossed and turned around, similar to what happens to football athletes. I also get that there is a tradition on how they are supposed to "look". But the bows on the hair...

no

nonononononono

nope

really, no

 

It is tacky, it is ugly, it is totally detached from how they look from the neck down. 

Is this a requirement, or just something that stuck? Because someone more creative should come up with something better. It can't be too hard to come up with something better that that.

[Whimsy]

5 hours ago, qtpye said:

I wish I could like your post a million times!!!

Word to everything you said. 

Cheerleading seems to sometimes be an unholy marriage of the worst of dance and gymnastics culture, including the almost cult like mentality.

The lack of any type of protective gear, the dangerous stunts, and probably a large pressure to "cheer through the pain".

All of this so you can beat one other community college that is about 30 miles from your school?

Can you make a living from this sport...besides teaching and coaching? No shade, I am just asking. 

I know the professional NFL cheerleaders get paid nothing. Also, they are more of the dancer Barbie doll types and not the tiny powerhouse girls we see on this show.

I understand passion and not everything is about money. However, how is Navarro (sp?) ranked as a community college? Is a degree from there worth something?

I felt like that one man did not really have a life (living with his friend's, also a former cheerleader, family) because he was married to cheer.

I guess there are worse things to base your life around.

 

Teaching, coaching, choreographing.  Outside of that- making/selling cheer accessories (TONS of swag tables all over cheer comps with bows, bags, t-shirts, sweatshirts, etc ect), making the music.  But otherwise- no. 

1 hour ago, circumvent said:

I think t was said in one episode that only one channel has the rights ot show the whole thing, they will not allow anyone to show the whole performance

I know nothing about cheerleading, I never watched any cheerleading live, I think it is dangerous and I know it can cause permanent damage to the brains of the girls who get tossed and turned around, similar to what happens to football athletes. I also get that there is a tradition on how they are supposed to "look". But the bows on the hair...

no

nonononononono

nope

really, no

 

It is tacky, it is ugly, it is totally detached from how they look from the neck down. 

Is this a requirement, or just something that stuck? Because someone more creative should come up with something better. It can't be too hard to come up with something better that that.

Something that stuck, I think.  IDK.  The girl seemed to like it.  My daughter had TONS of bows that she would wear to practice and at comps when they weren't competing.  Then they had their uniform bows that were treated like gold and only were worn when competing.  I hated the bows at first but I got used to them heh.

Cheerleading can be very dangerous.  That's why I think they need to have better safety equipment for practices.  Some of the bigger (ie, rolling in the $$) gyms have harnesses when teaching some tumbling, etc but mostly, it's just mats.  And, if the team is a school team, pop-warner or a smaller all-star team, they don't have the money for nice, thick mats, so they are just basically throwing kids around to land on concrete.  My daughter got a couple of concussions, hurt wrist (still bothers her) and some knee injuries as the girl on the bottom of the stunt (she was a base, for those in the know) because girls were landing on top of her head.  So, it's not just the flyers who were in peril.  My daughter was so proud of the fact that she never let her flyer hit the mat, while she herself had loads of injuries.

[Conotocarious]

It’s one of the things that fascinates me most about this show. Everyone is SO INTENSE about this one niche thing besides the fact that they seem to competing in a category which they have a 50/50 percent chance of winning (which Netflix doesn’t make nearly as clear as they probably should) there’s just not much beyond it. No real professional cheerleading opportunities. Seeing how dangerous it is and how toxic the environment can be it’s really hard not to ask “What’s the point.” It sure makes for a great Netflix show, though.

[go4luca]

For those interested, here's La'Darius IG lives he did on Jan. 16th about why he really left.

Part 1:

Part 2:

 

[qtpye]

35 minutes ago, Conotocarious said:

It’s one of the things that fascinates me most about this show. Everyone is SO INTENSE about this one niche thing besides the fact that they seem to competing in a category which they have a 50/50 percent chance of winning (which Netflix doesn’t make nearly as clear as they probably should) there’s just not much beyond it. No real professional cheerleading opportunities. Seeing how dangerous it is and how toxic the environment can be it’s really hard not to ask “What’s the point.” It sure makes for a great Netflix show, though.

You get to go to community college for 10 years?

You might get an Associates' Degree in the amount of time it takes other people to become doctors?

[qtpye]

24 minutes ago, go4luca said:

For those interested, here's La'Darius IG lives he did on Jan. 16th about why he really left.

Part 1:

Part 2:

 

This really shows how you can not trust reality tv producers, even ones for a respected docudrama like this series.

They have a story to tell and they will publicly destroy your character to do it.

They wanted to show Monica as a long-suffering champion coach (if a little fame-hungry) whose kids were letting her down.

I also think that the fame these kids get will be a lot lower this season after the Jerry incident. People are not going to be inviting these kids to come on their talk shows and gush over them in the same way.

[IntrovertRed]

4 hours ago, go4luca said:

For those interested, here's La'Darius IG lives he did on Jan. 16th about why he really left.

Part 1:

Part 2:

 

Damn, he really didn't hold back.  Monika choking Corbin and Sid/Syd?  Then he calls out Ireland and someone else (didn't catch his name) for saying that La'Darius said he wanted to rape them. Also said he was asked to go to Daytona and that when he started talking about the truth, that's when she sat on his lap to stop him from talking. They also said to go easy on her cuz she just lost. 

Just watched the second day of Navarro's performance, you can barely see Gill's fall. I had to watch it several times before I even saw it.

Edited January 19, 2022 by KLJ