S02.E10: Love, Actually

[Door County Cherry]

Airs 12/26/19

E10 and all season discussion 

Quote

Joe has always been full of surprises, but Love has a few of her own. Is this the beginning of the end, or the end of the deceiving?

 

[DanaMB]

I know Joe is crazier than a sprayed cockroach, but I really thought he’d found his happily ever after with someone who loves him and will do anything to protect him (something he always claims he’s doing for the women he goes after). 
The end of the episode shows Joe feeling like he’s in a type of hell and already moving on to his next victim. I guess it’s the chase (stalking) that gets him off. 

[Jade Foxx]

Love and Joe’s offspring are DOOMED. 

Could Joe have resolved his mommy, anger, and abandonment issues with intensive therapy? Guess we’ll never know. 

Moral to the story: Find someone as equally fucked up as you? 😐

 

Edited December 28, 2019 by Jade Foxx

[Petunia13]

No because Joe did and found someone who accepted his flaws and he’s not happy. 

[NeenerNeener]

Certainly was an interesting ending. And it leaves open the possibility of a Season 3.

[Primal Slayer]

While I enjoyed S2, I think it was a mistake to kill off both Candace and Delilah, one of them should've stayed alive to keep after Joe and his new bride.

Especially now that they are "happily" married, having someone who they know is out there waiting to pounce would've at least put some edge to them. Of course Joe doesn't know how to properly love so he'll always end up killing but he needs that someone who can at least face off against him to a degree.

[Jade Foxx]

28 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

Of course Joe doesn't know how to properly love so he'll always end up killing 

I think regardless of being properly loved or not, at his core Joe is fundamentally a compulsive murderer who justifies his actions re why he has to kill. 

 

[Chaos Theory]

Is it weird Joe inside the box telling Love they can't be together and Love looking at him with that crazy "I'll kill you first" look? Ahhhhh how the worm turns

 

Well Damn Love is a right old serial killer isn't she?  

I showed you what I wanted by showing you what I didn't want.   I adored how on one hand Joe thinks he has this perfect and pure ideal of Love while Love is just as dark and stalky as he is.  "And then I found the real you, Joe."

Love reading Beck's book in Joe's cage was some awesome visual.

And even when Joe gets everything he thinks he wants he can't help but stalk someone else because for him its the hunt.  Although I was kinda hoping the show would pull a switch and have Love kill Joe and have her be the lead for the third season.   Trying to find some poor sap to fall in love with her.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 28, 2019 by Chaos Theory

[Door County Cherry]

22 hours ago, Jade Foxx said:

Could Joe have resolved his mommy, anger, and abandonment issues with intensive therapy? Guess we’ll never know. 

No and I hate that they focused so much into his mommy issues and abandonment this season as much as I hated that they focused on the bookstore owner in the first season.  None of that is why Joe kills.

6 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

While I enjoyed S2, I think it was a mistake to kill off both Candace and Delilah, one of them should've stayed alive to keep after Joe and his new bride.

Well there is Ellie.  She's young but she convinced me that she could grow into a survivor out of necessity.  And there is the cop who is now looking at Forty (who also could have worked as someone alive to go after Joe) for Henderson's murder.  He might try to track his movements before he died and find out that he went to see Dr. Nicky (also a loose thread depending on how long his zen attitude lasts).  

5 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

Is it weird Joe inside the box telling Love they can't be together and Love looking at him with that crazy "I'll kill you first" look? Ahhhhh how the worm turns

And even when Joe gets everything he thinks he wants he can't help but stalk someone else because for him its the hunt.  Although I was kinda hoping the show would pull a switch and have Love kill Joe and have her be the lead for the third season.   Trying to find some poor sap to fall in love with her.

I am not a fan of them turning Love into a serial killer as well.  I think it highlighted a problem where I felt the show swerved too much into Joe's POV instead of having there be a tension between his POV and what probably actually happened.  I mean, his only kills were objectively "bad" people.  He obsessed over trying to be "good."  I don't believe he would have let Will walk.  And turning Love into a serial killer*

Spoiler

instead of just someone who sees him and accepts him (which would be twisted enough in itself)

makes me nervous they'll go in an "everyone is twisted" next season.

My favorite moment from the finale was when Joe wondered what kind of father he'd be if he loved someone like Love--that was just the right amount of Joe hypocrisy. 

*Spoiler is a brief reference to how they wrote Love in the book

And there likely will be a season 3 as I believe the production company just secured a tax credit. Since I doubt another book will be out before they write it.

Overall, much like I preferred Hidden Bodies to You, I preferred Season 2 to Season 1.  I think I liked the secondary characters more.  I think Delilah is my favorite character on the show and I'm sad she died.  Forty was annoying at first but towards the end, he was so rootable.  

I'll move the rest of my thoughts to the book thread if anyone wants to join me to compare/contrast this season to the book and where might they go from here. 

[Spartan Girl]

I actually think upping the ante with making Love an obsessed killer is a brilliant way to give Joe some of that divine justice. He is now trapped with the literal mirror of himself and he doesn't like what he sees. Although he's still as deluded as ever, acting like he's still the Misunderstood Hero, at least compared to the Quinn craziness. 

Love calling out Joe for loving the ideal fantasy he had of her while she always saw and loved the real him?  Spot-fucking-on.

So it looks like season 3 will be reminiscent of Gone Girl, with Love and Joe trying to stay on top of each other and maybe trying to finish each other off -- with that poor neighbor and that poor unborn baby caught in the crossfire. I'm in.

[Chaos Theory]

I didn’t mind Delilah getting killed.   I can’t explain why but I hated her character.   Ellie on the other hand I really liked.   I think her character is exactly the kind of person Joe would latch on to and try to protect like he did the boy from last season.  
 

I honestly really disliked the way the show  killed Forty.   I guess giving the cop something to do was important but it made very little sense to me.  Even Love or her passive aggressive mother who also might have known what kind of person her children really were made more sense.

Still fun season that I whipped through in a couple days

[DoubleUTeeEff]

Damage finds damage, indeed.

One thing I was disappointed in this season is that there wasn't more cat and mouse between Candace and Joe. Besides her initially showing up with Forty and ineffectually pulling on a knife on Joe there wasn't much there there. I was kind of hoping that she and Love had hooked up to try and take down Joe together. However, there is a nice symmetry in Love treating Joe exactly the way Joe treated Beck.

Was Love trying to bait Joe into killing that Australian guy she was seeing?

I guess Love is lucky that she's pregnant so that Joe is stuck in the "trap" of his own making, in his mind. It seems to be more of a Love trap to me.

I seriously underestimated Forty. I thought he had figured out that Beck's boyfriend was her killer during his acid trip but it seems Candace pointed it out to him. I like that he tracked down Dr. Nicky and deep dived into Joe's story, though.

Love was pretty heartless to let Forty believe that he had killed the au pair (or thought that she had, turns out that he figured it out). I guess she felt guilty about it so that's why she spent so much time and energy trying to take care of him.

I really enjoyed the twist of the very last scene. I guess Joe's whole thing is like that old saw from Groucho Marx--he doesn't want to belong to any club that would have him as a member.

Did the next object of Joe's obsession, the neighbor, have a wedding ring? I look forward to Love's reaction when she finds out about her if we get a third season.

Ellie's still out there too. She's got some motivation to punish her sister's killer for sure.

[backhometome]

Candace dying really sucked. Poor girl. She should have called the cops first and not Love.

 

I liked this season better. Probably because Beck annoyed me so much. But I hated the name Love so much. Worse than Forty. 

 

Joe doesnt want to be loved he gets off on the chase and thrill of stalking women. Loved accepted and loved him for himself and he wasn't satisfied and was onto his next mark.

 

That poor baby is so fucked with parents like Joe/Love.

[methodwriter85]

Joe wants the proverbial"good" woman to make him want to be a better man, but an actually good woman would never want someone like him. Now that he realizes Love is just as fucked as he is, he's on to the next thing.

[preeya]

On 12/27/2019 at 6:25 PM, Primal Slayer said:

While I enjoyed S2, I think it was a mistake to kill off both Candace and Delilah, one of them should've stayed alive to keep after Joe and his new bride.

Especially now that they are "happily" married, having someone who they know is out there waiting to pounce would've at least put some edge to them. Of course Joe doesn't know how to properly love so he'll always end up killing but he needs that someone who can at least face off against him to a degree.

↑ That could be Ellie. ↑

"I will figure out a way, a way to get to you.
See you soon... neighbor."
 

[Petunia13]

I liked Candace and wished they hadn’t killed her. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

Did anyone notice something different with Penn's acting style this season?  I felt like it was more minimalistic in a way that I really liked.  Like, Penn was extremely REACTIVE to the other actors.  Joe would physically wait for characters to act, and then react.  And I really liked this.  I liked how downplayed, and subtle he was.  I don't like overacting.

The episode where Joe is absolutely fucked up because Forty drugged him - I was pretty blown away.  I thought Penn was amaaaaaaaazing in that.

Sometimes the narration and dialogue is so hilarious that I think Penn does a great job making it believable.  The way Joe does his narration is soooooo weird though.  He emphasizes the strangest words and it sounds so unnatural.  It's so overdramatic.  But really usually I hate voiceovers/narration (Kristen Bell in Gossip Girl is a great example of this.  I find it so cloying and unneeded) and this is one of the few shows where I don't really mind it or it just doesn't bother me.

Edited December 29, 2019 by Ms Blue Jay

[Ms Blue Jay]

5 hours ago, Petunia13 said:

I liked Candace and wished they hadn’t killed her. 

The actor reminded me of Renee Zellweger in the way that she spoke. 

I liked the actor who played Forty.  The actor who plays Will is very good too.  

[momma2rnr]

I loved the end, mostly because Joe seems so freaked out that he wound up with someone even crazier than he is. The whole reveal in the cage of the plan for Ellie had him like "man this chick is effed up, even more than me."

I have a theory about the neighbor and next season... do we post here or is there another thread?

[preeya]

5 hours ago, momma2rnr said:

I have a theory about the neighbor and next season... do we post here or is there another thread?

I'd like to see your theory.

[Door County Cherry]

8 hours ago, momma2rnr said:

I have a theory about the neighbor and next season... do we post here or is there another thread?

If it's not based on the book or spoilers, you can post your speculation in the What's To Come For You thread.  

If it's based on spoilers or book talk, you can post in the You: The Book and the Sequels thread.

It's not that posting theories here is expressly prohibited, I just don't want it to take over this thread so anything other than a quick spec probably should go in one of the other threads. 

[yourmomiseasy]

On 12/28/2019 at 1:35 PM, DoubleUTeeEff said:

I seriously underestimated Forty. I thought he had figured out that Beck's boyfriend was her killer during his acid trip but it seems Candace pointed it out to him. I like that he tracked down Dr. Nicky and deep dived into Joe's story, though.

 

I think he did figure out that her boyfriend was the killer, he just didn't know that the boyfriend was Joe until Candace said it was.

[TrininisaScorp]

In between work and holiday obligations (don't these ppl know I have tv to binge!?), I was still able to watch the season in 2 nights (e.g. staying up way to late and having to get up for work the next day). 

IMO, Joe's ample judgmental, hypocrisy is maybe one of the best things about the show.  His love for Love changed dramatically when he found out she was just like him.  I think the show did a great job of showing what a fucking monster Joe is.  He seriously assaulted, kidnapped, attempted to kill, and buried Candace alive.  WTF?!  The way the system treated her was just painful.  Penn did a cool Actors on Actors with Gina Rodriguez and pondered how much an evil white man can do before "we" stop forgiving him.  It's an interesting contextual cue in the current environment and with all the "woke" characters on the show. 

I know Forty was a mess and a pain, but that ending felt just right for him, even if he didn't deserve it. He has never been able to do anything correctly, so why start now?  The way he spoke to everyone in his manic, nervous state makes him seem so very guilty.  He was a perfect patsy for Joe/Love to get over on.  I loved him meeting with born again Dr Nicky.

No one will ever be Peach.  Upon letting it marinate a year, Shay Mitchell was a damn revelation on this show. 

I was shocked that Joe and Love were living this lovely suburban life and he seemed content until those last 3 minutes.  That poor neighbor is toast, one way (Joe) or another (Love).  Clearly, love for him isn't about the hard work of the relationship, but about the thrill of the research and the chase and the set-up.   He can't empathize or feel for others (I would say his protectiveness of Paco and Ellie are about seeing himself in them...not about them), so it rings true that he can't really get love. 

Penn Bagley continues to be very good looking with the most attractive voice.  Also, his voiceover line readings felt even better than last year.  The "What. The. Fuck" when he was in the cage made me cackle. 

[Lady Calypso]

So...I just finished the season.

I'm still digesting the twist of Love being a deranged serial killer, like Joe. I'm still digesting the entire ending, especially with the pregnancy twist. It does add a whole new layer to Joe as a person. What will he do now that he's becoming a father? Could he really change to be the father that he never had? 

With that ending, no, it doesn't seem like he could be. He could never truly be happy with living a normal life. Not only because he's never known normal, but because that's not who he is. Similarily to Love, who couldn't change her tendencies either.

I didn't love Ellie this season, but if she's going to be Joe's adversary for the potential third season, then I'm all for it. She's angry with the loss of her sister and her father and she'll gladly take it out on Joe, especially since she blames him, and rightfully so.  

It's a shame about Candace dying. After basically hinting that she'd have a big role this season with that season 1 cliffhanger, especially after promoting the actress to the main cast, she barely got anything to do besides in the fifth episode. Delilah was also a promising character.

Poor Forty. I knew his story HAD to end badly once they kept Love alive and especially once they inserted the twist that she was a crazy psychotic serial killer as well. No way could he stay alive and have Love be all for Joe. 

I hope the unborn baby gets spared (the baby probably will but it's already doomed with two sociopathic parents; kid is definitely going to grow up with sociopathic tendencies). And, since Love is convinced it's a girl, watch the baby be a boy, to be like Joe. 

[Samwise979]

I think this is one show where the voice overs are really needed. We need to know Joe's thoughts behind his actions. We need to understand the way he thinks. Like in the first season when he discovered Peach was obsessed with Beck "omg Beck you have a stalker!" And this episode's "What. The. Fuck" when he's listening to Love's crazy... Penn's delivery is so hilarious but also it shows how truly delusional he is. Like, yes, Peach was a stalker and Love is a murderer but he really thinks he is not!

I totally thought Love was going to make the ultimate sacrifice and choose Joe over her brother and kill Forty. 

[surfer]

I'm all for a season 3 of Peach, Delilah, Forty and Candace haunting Joe and Love from beyond the grave and making their lives miserable. The level of snark from those four would be epic.

[Door County Cherry]

On 12/29/2019 at 3:51 AM, Ms Blue Jay said:

Sometimes the narration and dialogue is so hilarious that I think Penn does a great job making it believable.  The way Joe does his narration is soooooo weird though.  He emphasizes the strangest words and it sounds so unnatural.  It's so overdramatic.  

I think the narration is overdramatic because Joe is overdramatic. That's why I find the narration both entertaining and necessary. I kind of loved the things Penn did with the delivery.  For instance, he always seemed to put an emphasis on the word "you." 

On 12/29/2019 at 9:55 PM, Samwise979 said:

I totally thought Love was going to make the ultimate sacrifice and choose Joe over her brother and kill Forty. 

I was worried about that for a bit too and I would have had a hard time believing it considering how codependent they were.  So if Forty had to die in that moment, having the cop do it made the most sense for me. 

On 12/28/2019 at 8:29 AM, Spartan Girl said:

I actually think upping the ante with making Love an obsessed killer is a brilliant way to give Joe some of that divine justice. He is now trapped with the literal mirror of himself and he doesn't like what he sees. Although he's still as deluded as ever, acting like he's still the Misunderstood Hero, at least compared to the Quinn craziness. 

Love calling out Joe for loving the ideal fantasy he had of her while she always saw and loved the real him?  Spot-fucking-on.

I already responded in the book thread but I do think the only benefit in making her his killing equal was to show that no, there is no perfect person out there to fulfill or change him.  If there were, that'd be Love.  Instead, she became a villain when he learned the truth about her. 

[Cementhead]

I love this show so much!  And I am so not a nit-picker but one thing was really, really starting to bug the hell out of me -- how were Candace & Love able to run in & out of the storage facility so freely because did we not see Joe having to use a swipe card to get in?  That drove me insane in the last episode or two.  Even with Delilah, I know she took his key but that would have only gotten her into his actual storage locker, and I swear they showed Joe having to swipe a card to get into the main facility. 

[yourmomiseasy]

I grew to like Forty, so I was ind of sad to see him shot.  Something was kind of off about Love the whole way through, but I kind of want to rewatch knowing the end to see if it was obvious what her deal was if you knew.  I like Love and Joe being crazy soulmates, but of course as soon as he gets what he wants he doesn't want it.  I'm surprised Joe hasn't been caught yet though, he's really bad at realizing cell phone location can be tracked by the police.

[EastCoast4Life]

Ok, but what did they do with Candace's body and Delilah's body???? 

[Lady Calypso]

1 hour ago, EastCoast4Life said:

Ok, but what did they do with Candace's body and Delilah's body???? 

I don't think we ever found out. We saw Candace's body in Love's trunk, and Delilah's body was still in the cage, but there was never any explanation as to what happened with their bodies afterward, so it seems like Love and Joe disposed of them. I guess they didn't feel that the "how" was important, since they technically got away with it. 

[Mabinogia]

22 hours ago, TrininisaScorp said:

Penn Bagley continues to be very good looking with the most attractive voice. 

He is quite a handsome fellow, but man can he do crazy eyes like nobodies business. I know he's acting, but it is very, very good acting and I'd be hesitant to follow him into a storage locker or a basement alone. lol 

One of my favorite things about this show is his voiceovers. I am also terrified by how much I relate to some of them. haha

I gave up on last season about half way through because I couldn't stand Beck and spent most of my time wishing Joe would just kill her already. This season I inhaled in two days. I was actually really fascinated by Love and by Joe's delusions of being a better man for her and loved the twist of her not being his saviour but becoming his own personal hell. 

One question re: the postcards. It looked like Joe took a few postcards from the post box. He read the first one. I think it said something about sending money. I'm assuming it was from Ellie. Then he shredded them. Is he sending Ellie money and he shredded them to hid the fact? Or was the shredding an indication that he stopped answering/helping her?

[preeya]

2 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

One question re: the postcards. It looked like Joe took a few postcards from the post box. He read the first one. I think it said something about sending money. I'm assuming it was from Ellie. Then he shredded them. Is he sending Ellie money and he shredded them to hid the fact? Or was the shredding an indication that he stopped answering/helping her?

Good point. If he stops sending her money you can bet the farm she'll be back to harass and/or blackmail him.

Could be a good plot if there is a season 3, and if there is a time-lapse she could come back as an adult and a different actress.

Edited December 31, 2019 by preeya

[Ms Blue Jay]

Oh!

I remembered another observation I had about this season.

Did anyone notice that Joe used (in his narration) the phrase "anti-feminist" at least twice?  Maybe more?  And I found the phrase really awkward.  I am damn sure he meant misogynist both times, which would have been a much simpler, straightforward term for what he meant.

I know there are anti-feminists, but misogyny I think is what he was referring to in those moments, so I found it weird.  Almost like the script writers were too scared to use that word, or something.  Maybe some people see them as synonyms, but I always use the word misogyny when I mean it.

And I'm really sorry I don't even remember the context for what I'm talking about.  But I did notice it.  (I think one of those times with 207, when Joe goes on dating apps.)

Edited December 31, 2019 by Ms Blue Jay

[yourmomiseasy]

That's an interesting observation because Joe definitely playacts being a woke feminist and is totally a mysoginist.  

[Chaos Theory]

Joe has this idea in his head that he is the character in one of his books he reads where he rides in to save the damsel but it never occurs to him that maybe the damsel never needed saving (Beck) or what happens next (Love).   
 

What happens when the story ends and the book closes.    In Joe’s case he looks for a new damsel to save.

Edited January 1, 2020 by Chaos Theory

[HunterHunted]

On 12/30/2019 at 1:14 AM, Door County Cherry said:

but I do think the only benefit in making her his killing equal was to show that no, there is no perfect person out there to fulfill or change him.  If there were, that'd be Love.  Instead, she became a villain when he learned the truth about her. 

Crazy Ex-Girlfriend did this beautifully. They introduced Trent who was Rebecca's equal and she loathed him. Trent is also the architect of outing Rebecca's crazy to the universe, which ultimately becomes a wake up call to Rebecca to stop externalizing her happiness.

That is what I suspect Love will ultimately be for Joe. She is actually all of the things he's idealized her to be, but he doesn't have to hide his crazy from her and she's got similar crazy. The thing is Joe wants a woman who will redeem and absolve him, but there is no woman whose good good is THAT good. Season 3 is going to be really miserable for Joe.

[LavenderLove]

I loved this season so much! I have one question though, do we assume that Love killed/poisoned her husband because he didn't want children? Now that we know she's capable of it I don't think I believe he was just "sick" and died. 

[waving feather]

Love is the type who uses her childhood upbringing to justify her horrible acts. So her parents are absent and emotionally abusive. How does that justify her in becoming a serial killer? And I am surprised Forty was so forgiving about her letting him think he killed the au pair. Since that was a huge trauma for him, not only finding the body but thinking all these years he blacked out and killed someone? And it's suss that all of her victims so far are women. 

[yourmomiseasy]

14 hours ago, LavenderLove said:

I loved this season so much! I have one question though, do we assume that Love killed/poisoned her husband because he didn't want children? Now that we know she's capable of it I don't think I believe he was just "sick" and died. 

I think the conversation showed that he didn't want children because he was sick.  

[neece26]

Quote

I love this show so much!  And I am so not a nit-picker but one thing was really, really starting to bug the hell out of me -- how were Candace & Love able to run in & out of the storage facility so freely because did we not see Joe having to use a swipe card to get in?  That drove me insane in the last episode or two.  Even with Delilah, I know she took his key but that would have only gotten her into his actual storage locker, and I swear they showed Joe having to swipe a card to get into the main facility. 

My huge nit-pick issue for the season is are there no surveillance cameras anywhere in LA?  None at the Anavrin market where Joe could freely dismember a body in the kitchen?  None at the apartment complex?  None at the freaking storage facility where people are coming and going dragging out dead bloody bodies?  How is this possible?!?!

Enjoyed the season overall.  If there is a S3, I'm on board!  

 

 

[EarlGreyTea]

Victoria Pedretti was a revelation, and for me, made this season much stronger than the first. Even before her brand of crazy was revealed, she made Love seem like much more of a real person than Beck ever was, and not as insanely self-destructive. Much of that, of course, is owing to the strength of Pedretti as an actress over Lail. Her eyes are just so expressive and you could buy her as a real person. Beck was such a cypher. I now want to re-watch the entire season, knowing what we know about Love now.

All of the scenes in the storage locker were amazing. Penn finally had someone strong to work off of, and it showed. They really pushed each other in those scenes. For my money, they had more chemistry overall than he had with Lail.

I feel marooned on an island in my dislike of Peach. Shay Mitchell played the hell out of her, but I couldn't stand Peach.

More than once I rewound just to hear Penn's voiceovers. HYSTERICAL.

I thought Love was lying about the pregnancy. And since her husband's illness was never specifically named...

 

Edited January 2, 2020 by EarlGreyTea

[Mellowyellow]

6 hours ago, EarlGreyTea said:

I feel marooned on an island in my dislike of Peach. Shay Mitchell played the hell out of he

I'll join you on the island! I never cared for the Peach character and forgot about her pretty quickly! She was just irritating when she was onscreen.

I feel like S2 had stronger support characters. Delilah, Ellie, Forty, Will and even Gabe all felt more real than the S1 characters and were more likeable overall.

I loved Will and was delighted he made it out alive!

I also enjoyed Love's competence which was a huge and wonderful contrast to the awful Beck (I liked the actress and thought she portrayed her trainwreck character very well). What did he ever see in Beck??? I just thought she was a poor candidate to put on a pedestal. Love I could understand (love the quote about the perfectly imperfect girl) but Beck was a twit and Joe doesn't like twits. Beck was a common, run of the mill twit. She didn't deserve to die but she always seemed to me like someone Joe would sneer at for being an idiot and move on.

I rewatched some of Love's scenes and the way she was played you could interpret as her being a psycho (which she turned out to be) or just someone very analytical and doesn't rattle easily since she's used to calmly dealing with Forty's dramas. 

[TaraS1]

I'd never seen Penn Badgley in anything before, so I was really happy to 'discover' him in this.  He is fantastic.  And such a cutie.  I can't put my finger on what about him reminds me of Jim Carrey sometimes, but it does.

And I too just assumed that Love was lying about being pregnant.  Or at least lying about it being Joe's baby.  I think if he ever did find out it wasn't his, he'd have an easier time killing Love.

I also hated that they killed Candace and Delilah.  Boo Love.

[Ms Blue Jay]

Jim Carrey is very handsome in "The Mask", and "Liar Liar".  Very cute.  So I can see it.  They both kind of have the beady eyes, the smaller features, LOL.  Penn's bone structure is just crazy.  His cheekbones look like glass.

Penn being weird and cute:  

I'll post his Actors on Actors interview in the media thread, unless it's there already.

[MtLCL]

Just finished this! So many twists and turns this season. Still a constant struggle of rooting for yet not rooting for Joe. 

I am excited to see next season and how Joe will be as a father and hopefully learn some more about his childhood. 

 

I'd like to add: I think Penn looks like John Mayer's younger brother, always have. John Mayer is my absolute favorite musician and I find him extremely handsome, so hating Joe is really hard for me, strictly speaking on looks/voice. I LOVED it early in the season, at Hendy's house party, when people were asking him if he was John Mayer. Hilarious.

However, my favorite was Joe's reaction to Love's tell-all while he was in the cage. He discovered she was a female version of himself, yet he still thought he was the good guy.

 

 

Edited January 2, 2020 by MtLCL
Grammer

[jiminycrispies]

Just finished watching the season and I definitely loved the side characters this season more than last season. That being said, last season was a little bit more satisfying since there was at least someone (Peach, Ron) around to call Joe out on his BS. Yea this season had Candace but we never had any idea of what her plan was except to try and protect the Quinns from Joe.

On 12/28/2019 at 9:29 AM, Spartan Girl said:

I actually think upping the ante with making Love an obsessed killer is a brilliant way to give Joe some of that divine justice. He is now trapped with the literal mirror of himself and he doesn't like what he sees. Although he's still as deluded as ever, acting like he's still the Misunderstood Hero, at least compared to the Quinn craziness.

The main reason I like this twist is that it sends the message across that Joe is clearly a psychotic stalker, not some misunderstood damaged soul. Here is someone that clearly understands him and accepts him but he doesn't want that. He's a predator and he enjoys stalking his prey.

Also - Justice for Delilah! She was my favorite character this season (by the end of the season Forty was up there as well) and I was so sad that she died.

On 12/27/2019 at 9:25 PM, Primal Slayer said:

While I enjoyed S2, I think it was a mistake to kill off both Candace and Delilah, one of them should've stayed alive to keep after Joe and his new bride.

Yes, I totally agree. I know that Candace said she was "texting someone every hour" but I'm sure that was a lie she made up to make sure Joe didn't hurt her. Still it would be interesting if maybe she was telling the truth and next season Joe is being tracked down by a friend of Candace's. Maybe it could be that friend that Joe ran into at Peach's party in season 1.

[Ms Blue Jay]

Penn Badgley and Adam Brody remind me of each other.  Gossip Girl / OC are created by the same people, and I loved when Penn's character Dan on GG was dating Leighton Meester's character, and Leighton is now married to Adam.  The whole thing is very funny to me.

[Door County Cherry]

18 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

I also enjoyed Love's competence which was a huge and wonderful contrast to the awful Beck (I liked the actress and thought she portrayed her trainwreck character very well). What did he ever see in Beck??? I just thought she was a poor candidate to put on a pedestal. 

Beck and Love are different but his attraction to them boils down to the same thing.  He sees in them what he wants to see.  So trying to figure out what he sees in them vs. what we see in them is kind of pointless because it is all in his head. 

Who they really are doesn't matter.  In fact, as soon as Joe starts seeing them for who they really are is when their lives are suddenly put in danger.  He punishes them for not being who he created in his mind.  The only thing that temporarily saved Love is her pregnancy. 

 

[tennisgurl]

What a season, so much to chew on, so many twists and turns! I suspected that Love might have a serious dark side pretty early on, but she is full on murder psycho pants as it turns out! No wonder she and Joe zeroed in on each other right away, they both recognized their own kind, even if it was subconscious. 

I really liked this season, I thought that Love being revealed to be a killer was a great twist, especially if you read one of the lessons of the show to be how people can be blinded by love so much that they ignore the increasingly obvious signs that the person they are with isnt a very good person. Even Joe, a guy who really should know better (being basically the worst case scenario boyfriend) was so obsessed with Love that he didnt notice the strange things about her and the red flags. This also really, conclusively, reminds us again, that Joe isnt some well meaning nice guy who just needs to be "fixed" by a good women. Joe is a predator and a killer, and even when he finds the woman who seems to be his true soul mate, he is still looking for his next victim. 

Joe is all about the hunt, and about projecting an imagine onto women that he can obsess over, not about really falling in love or being in a relationship. He loves the obsession, not the actual person. He also has this sort of Madonna/Whore or Knight in Shining Armour thing, where he sees women as either sweet and innocent things that can save him from himself but also rather stupid people that need Joe to protect them from all of these evil people that want to take advantage of them, or they're evil conniving bitches wanting to hurt Nice Guy Joe and take away his chance at love. Because in the story of his life that Joe is telling himself (and us) he is the last romantic in a world full of fakes and creeps that is going to save a sweet and wonderful girl from not only this cruel world, but herself and her own bad choices, and its just so sad that none of these girls ever seem to understand how much he loves them and oh how unlucky in love he is. In a story where Love is a manipulative and murderous person who is as unhealthily obsessed with Joe as he was with her, that narrative never works. He doesent want a woman who fully accepts the dark parts of him while also being proactive and competent enough to do her own evil stuff for him the way he sees himself as doing evil stuff for her, he wants an imaginary women who needs his help for everything and inspires him to heroic actions with her goodness and purity. Its all very Don Quijote of him. 

Or it could be as simple as Love being a mirror to Joe, showing him what he really is, and Joe is not at all happy with what he sees. 

At least Ellie got away, even if she lost everything. Poor Delilah though, I really liked her and I was so hoping she could make it out. Damn it Love, you asshole! I am also still not sure that Love didnt kill her husband, now more than ever, considering what we know about her. Was she actually poisoning him because he wouldn't take her parents money, or in some way not living up to her standards?

I knew from episode one that Forty was doomed, but I didnt think that episode one that I would be so sad about it. The poor guy never had a real chance, not with a family like that, with what happened to him and how his family handled it, both his parents as well as Love. Beneath his bullshit and casual assholeness and weird rants and entitlement and seeming arrogance, there was a deeply broken person who had a real capacity for intelligence, empathy, and regret, who really did love his sister and want to do what was best for her, and its so terribly tragic that he died trying to "save" her from someone who she isnt so different from at all. And he was so close! He was so close to exposing Joe, but Joe managed to snake away again, because people just choose to buy whatever Joe is selling and ignore people who say differently because of whatever reason people dont listen to people. Because Candace had a record, because Forty was a drug addict, etc. its amazing how much people wont listen to people who are begging for help, or even when they have information that clearly should be followed up on, because people just dont like parts of them for whatever reason. 

Penn Badgley is so good, I am always just blown away by his talents. The whole cast this season was really on point, but Penn is just so fascinating to watch, his every expression and movement seems to be calculated in such interesting ways. 

This poor neighbor girl, I dont know who is more dangerous to her, Joe or Love. Joe could kill her for not living up to his standards (plus kill several of her family and friends) or Love could get there first, killing the women trying to "steal" Joe away from her. And that poor kid, I cant even imagine what a life being raised by Joe and Love would look like.