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Episode Discussion II: The TFGH

OnceSane

By OnceSane
in General Hospital

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Culture Check: How can we discuss a character's or actor's appearance without objectifying them? How can we express likes or dislikes and still respect an individual's humanity or be mindful that a character represents a person someone else might relate to or identify with?

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YaddaYadda

YaddaYadda

So Jason became a FBI informant and let everyone think he was dead to save his own ass? Color me shocked that they didn't give us noble self-sacrificing Jason for this one.

Valentin behind Pikeman, behind the shootings, the hits on mob bosses and now tempering with Sonny's meds. I wonder if Ava is part of this little operation. 

Carly is the most pathetic character on the face of the GH planet. Dude, dignity goes a long way.

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Winston Wolfe
Winston Wolfe

See...that's where a good writer (who doesn't have to kiss Mo's arse) has Nik saying "Do you not get that I'm a Cassadine?" My Grandfather was staging vendettas and trying to freeze the whole planet y

ciarra
ciarra

Speaking of clothes.  Carly's dress.  Who wore it better?  

Winston Wolfe
Winston Wolfe

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jsbt

jsbt

(edited)

I should've seen it. We knew Valentin was in with Pikeman. IIRC he is the one who told Sonny all about them to begin with, no? I am glad they're confirming he has been fucking with Sonny's meds, as I suspected someone had done. I had a very hard time buying Sonny at his worst would turn on Jason as quickly as he has without that tampering.

I am aware Valentin has a fanbase. I am not among them. Valentin is a worm and JPS primarily excels at playing creeps and villains. Despite the show's endless attempts to put him over as a weepy piano-tinkling antihero and the wimpiest Cassadine on Earth, he came on as a creepy scumbag and has stayed one to me. Valentin makes sense as the Big Bad. I also think Ava is still in on this.

I do like Sonny's mania clueing him on Jason and Carly more, something that was too briefly swept aside when they inexplicably did not fuck on their wedding night and Jason booked it for Greece in '21. And I did laugh at the writing dismissing the dumb "Stone" clue as a feint by Valentin to freak Sonny out, and seemingly calling out the idiocy of this Brennan dude hanging around chemistry testing with Carly during the strike episodes when he was supposedly the head of this evil PMC.

Edited by jsbt
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Desperado

Desperado

The writing is now top notch and I’m enjoying most of what’s on my screen.

Happy to see Brennan back but don’t understand why he’s still in jail instead of running Pikeman, especially if Val doesn’t want to be linked the organization.

In case there’s any doubt, yes I much rather have Brennan on my screen than Val.

Curious to find out how he convinced Ava to get w/ his program and shun her bestie and risk Avery blowback.

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Bringonthedrama

Bringonthedrama

6 minutes ago, perkie1968 said:

 Well, punch me in the face and call me buttercup, I did not have Valentin as head of Pikeman on my bingo card

True. My bigger takeaway from those scenes is that Valentin is really a POS father. No remorse, no feeling about the shooting/potential death of Charlotte's stepdad/her brother's father.

It's clear that Carly only truly cared about Dante waking up so he would exonerate Jason. Not one word about her own cousin's son's, her ex-boyfriend's daughter's, or Jason's son's worry/suffering. UGH. Of course. I assume she is hoping to resume their wedding night in her old room above "Bobbie's" now. With the way she was holding on to him, is he going to able to go anywhere without her attached to his leg?

I found it lol funny that Sonny is the last to know about Dante waking up. Olivia texts instead of calls with such important news?! Also lol that Sonny is that stupid/gullible to believe that Ava could just call in to the hospital and get the information. I rolled my eyes when he kissed her and when Anna told Carly, thank you to Jason for saving Dante's life. 

Danny's desperation for Dante to exonerate his dad two seconds after Dante woke up was icky, but Elizabeth "not seeing anything" and the Dante-Rocco reunion was sweet for a Friday.

Brennan and Carly deserve each other.

Preview: I'm genuinely surprised Jason goes to see his first born. Good for Jake for being all "why are you here/what do you want"

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GHScorpiosRule

GHScorpiosRule

4 minutes ago, Bringonthedrama said:

I rolled my eyes when he kissed her and when Anna told Carly, thank you to Jason for saving Dante's life. 

I...just....no words. None. NOW, she sees Mooby clearly for who he is, yet Jason is still seen through guilt ridden/grattitude glasses? Who do you think killed all those people under Mooby's orders? The Mob Fairy?

I'm not surprised to learn that Valentin is Pikeman. I've never cared for him; I remember cheering at the Nurses Ball when Robert returned and cold cocked him after escaping from Valentin's goons.

He's done too many shady things. And even when approaching Mooby as "go between" I didn't believe it. It boggles the mind that Valentin was supposed to be the scariest Cassadine that had Helena scared to death.

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jsbt

jsbt

After we finally got to see him in all his unimpressive, mustachioed glory in 2016 I always preferred to believe/fanwanked that Valentin was a stalking horse Helena set up (without his knowledge) to decoy the Spencers, etc. from some other, bigger threat. She knew he was weak. But if PM and co. choose to try to make Valentin finally live up to the Cassadine rep JPS is likely capable of it; his most famous soap role is an infamous bad guy. Weeping Michael Feinstein-esque hero is not his forte.

I am not going to fault Anna for thanking Jason for field dressing Dante. But I do wonder where some of this is going long term for Jason, structurally on the long-term canvas.

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jsbt

jsbt

(edited)
3 minutes ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

I totally think that Ava's in on it.

As do I. If it turns out Valentin and Ava (who the show has conditioned much of the audience through bad, soppy writing to believe are 'good' now) are both working Sonny together that's the best mob plot this show has done in many years. It already is actually, but never mind.

Edited by jsbt
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dubbel zout

dubbel zout

21 minutes ago, perkie1968 said:

Valentin as head of Pikeman

Here's hoping this doesn't send Anna into another torrent of tears.

Two teenage boys would be easier for Dante to deal with than his weepy mother.

They've done a good job of setting up Sonny's paranoia so no one would immediately think his meds were being tampered with. I had to laugh when Valentin said he'd made an agreement with Sonny's "source" for his meds. Uh, would that be the pharmacist at the local CVS? Val made it sound as it Sonny met someone in a back alley somewhere for illicit drugs.

4 minutes ago, Bringonthedrama said:

Danny's desperation for Dante to exonerate his dad two seconds after Dante woke up was icky

I thought that was realistic. Danny is desperate to keep thinking of Jason as a good guy, not some murdering thug.

Carly is awfully blasé about Jason being an FBI informant.

Was Pentonville always considered maximum security? The way people are able to come and go certainly doesn't back that up, LOL.

2 minutes ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

I totally think that Ava's in on it.

She has to be, otherwise it makes no sense, and for once I think the show is actively trying to make sense.

I wish they'd drawn out Dante exonerating Jason for a bit longer.

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jsbt

jsbt

(edited)

They've really salvaged a lot of the dumb pieces of this unending Pikeman plot, in which people just seemed to go around saying "Pikeman" for years any time I tuned in. First it was Cyrus the world's oldest and most infirm deadly mobster taking time out to moan to Laura about how he didn't mean to back over their dad with the family Buick, then it was faceless "Pikeman". For me I just felt like, I don't care that a handsome dayplayer wandered into town looking for a cup of coffee and a date with Carly when he is supposed to be the key villain. That's stupid of him to do and they're right to call it out now. Nor do I care about the "Stone" bit which was likely a vestige of the D&C storyline planned which may have involved brainwashing, possibly Morgan or even worse. It's good to see these things being tied up.

3 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

I had to laugh when Valentin said he'd made an agreement with Sonny's "source" for his meds. Uh, would that be the pharmacist at the local CVS? Val made it sound as it Sonny met someone in a back alley somewhere for illicit drugs.

I would absolutely believe the Cassadines' sinister tendrils are running my local Walgreens. LA Walgreens are rough.

Edited by jsbt
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ffwbe

ffwbe

I’m curious about what Ava’s future is on the show. While I’m loving the thought of her playing Sonny, it definitely writes her into a corner. She doesn’t really have any friends now they’ve pretty much decimated her and Nina’s friendship and her only family is Avery who we all know Sonny is vindictive enough to keep away from her mother once this all comes out. 

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perkie1968

perkie1968

15 minutes ago, jsbt said:
17 minutes ago, ciarra said:

Anything about Austin's murder?  (Who?)

It has to be either Ava or Valentin. I have suspected Ava for some time and would prefer it be her.

It would make sense to be Ava and then she sent the photo and gun to herself and played the victim in order to get into Sonny's penthouse.  The more we're seeing of Ava in Sonny's place, offering him drinks (to go with his watered down meds), bad mouthing Jarly and feeding his paranoia, makes me think she's involved.  But I also worry that there's no writing her out of that corner if they go there.  

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jsbt

jsbt

(edited)
8 minutes ago, perkie1968 said:

It would make sense to be Ava and then she sent the photo and gun to herself and played the victim in order to get into Sonny's penthouse.  The more we're seeing of Ava in Sonny's place, offering him drinks (to go with his watered down meds), bad mouthing Jarly and feeding his paranoia, makes me think she's involved.  But I also worry that there's no writing her out of that corner if they go there.  

I don't know that a corner is possible for Ava at this point. As I am overly fond of mentioning, Ava came on this show murdering Connie in cold blood. That first year or two was her apex IMO. A great deal of what's been done since to try to make her heroic or sympathetic as a fan favorite and keep Maura around has watered Ava down and made the character worse to me, yet she's still now a 10+ year veteran. Again, that is the longest any of Sonny's rivals has ever lasted. Ava can stay dark and evil AFAIC. I do not need her to be redeemed, cleaned up or given an out. Helena ran on this show for many years and I think you can do something like that with Ava.

I am fine with Ava staying bad to the bone. If that means Maura only does another year or two or even six months on top of the past decade I'm probably okay with that too. She can return for stints or they can close her out. I'd personally like to keep Ava around as long as possible, but not at the expense of Ava being Ava which has happened too many times already.

Edited by jsbt
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GHScorpiosRule

GHScorpiosRule

46 minutes ago, jsbt said:

I am not going to fault Anna for thanking Jason for field dressing Dante

But she already thanked him for that, when she got all teary-eyed, asking him to trust her and tell her what happened. 

Granted, I haven't see today's episode yet, buy why have her thank him again, and in front of Cujo, of all people? Or did I misread that comment?

perkie1968

perkie1968

4 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

buy why have her thank him again, and in front of Cujo, of all people? Or did I misread that comment?

Anna figured Jason was with Carly, so she called Carly.  Carly denied Jason being with her but put her on speaker phone so that Anna could tell them that Dante was awake and had exonerated Jason.  Anna again said to thank Jason for saving Dante. 

jsbt

jsbt

(edited)
1 minute ago, ciarra said:

So if Sonny was mean to Jason because of meds tampering, was he also anti-Nina for the same reason?

All they need to do is drop in a gratuitous line of dialogue about Valentin doping Sonny with "Triskelion" crazy pills from the evil tattoo cartel* that made Clint Buchanan nutty on OLTL 2.0, and my idiotic master plan will be complete.

(* - for those of us who never gave up and never surrendered, 'the Triskelion cartel' was apparently their official name per spoilers but was never mentioned onscreen. Courtesy of former GH Ice Princess scribe Thom Racina! See, it's on topic!)

Edited by jsbt
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jsbt

jsbt

(edited)
5 minutes ago, perkie1968 said:

But we wouldn't get Helena, we would get Nina, with Ava being dragged for filth everytime someone runs into her.  

Eh, Ava is made of much much sterner stuff than Nina. When she's written properly she doesn't buckle and cry and beg forgiveness, she just ruins people. I don't care if the town hates her, she's always been able to give it right back. Villain is as villain does.

Edited by jsbt
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jsbt

jsbt

(edited)
5 minutes ago, ffwbe said:

Helena was never a full time character. She showed up for a few months, wreaked havoc, and disappeared. I don’t think a remorseless, unrepentant villain who has no one in their corner can function as a long term contract character. Someone needs to like them for it to work 

Helena was also a pretty ongoing presence for a number of years, it wasn't always just on-off stints bopping in and out of town. Not that I would care if MW or Ava went off contract and began going in and out. There's also the Alex Olanov approach from OLTL I have advocated before. Alex stayed a crazy villain but was regularly rotated through various positions of power and influence on that show that allowed her to remain partitioned from justice, unrepentant and on contract for close to ten years. There have been many soap villains like that. And connections for Ava are still possible. Trina, for example, can maintain her unique and frankly sheltered relationship with Ava if there is plausible deniability inserted into the public framework of the story. Ava's pathos and grief over Kiki, etc. are real. Her odd relationships with Scott and others are real, as was her love for Nikolas and connection to the Cassadines. (Speaking of, we forgot all about this: Ava claimed someone had bought Wyndemere off her. What if it's Valentin and they're in cahoots over there?)

For me it's less about quantity than quality at this point. Ava has been here over a decade. In that time a lot of her latter-day story designed to make her more viable has been shit IMHO. I am more interested in better story than another 5-10 years. I get why people wouldn't agree, but I do think Ava can be both written in character and kept around for at least another couple years.

Edited by jsbt
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CeChase

CeChase

I am not crazy for Val like a lot of people, and I never liked Vanna.  I did like him when he was with Nina but he was never a good guy, just look what he did to her?  So I have no problem with this and the idea of Val and Ava teaming up to take out Sonny is so good.  I don't care what their reasons are honestly.  I am loving Gh for the first time in a long time.  I watched live today!  I never watch live. 

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Grinaldi

Grinaldi

I'm all for Ava taking on a more vilainous role. And that can work long term (Not just Helena, Stefano Dimera lasted what 30 years?) But I would need some explanation if she is willingly working with Val. He did throw her off a parapet at one point, not to mention all the crap with Nikolas's "death."

And it says a lot about how defanged Valentine has become (Michael Feinstein, @jsbt? Ha!) that I never even considered him as a big bad reveal.

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jsbt

jsbt

(edited)
7 minutes ago, CeChase said:

I don't care what their reasons are honestly. 

If Ava comes out with some campy Maura monologue about how getting locked in a rental car with some backwoods rednecks last year on top of getting cheated on by her husband with a boarding school coed was enough to make her decide it's time to go back to her true calling, that will be the tops for me.

I am sure Anna will cry her way through some of this Valentin reveal but in fairness there she did have a long, boring romantic relationship with this creepazoid. I would love it if they finally let her just blow someone away again like she (thought) she did with Carlos. Valentin and Anna were both WSB/DVX. They know how this goes.

5 minutes ago, Grinaldi said:

I'm all for Ava taking on a more vilainous role. And that can work long term (Not just Helena, Stefano Dimera lasted what 30 years?) But I would need some explanation if she is willingly working with Val. He did throw her off a parapet at one point, not to mention all the crap with Nikolas's "death."

And it says a lot about how defanged Valentine has become (Michael Feinstein, @jsbt? Ha!) that I never even considered him as a big bad reveal.

Exactly, me neither and it should've been obvious given the early Pikeman link. The show has been so committed for years from FV on down to making Valentin viable as a leading man, making him palatable as this wussy, constantly-crying 'hero' who likes to tickle the ivories and hover over Anna and his mutant child breathing heavily, talking about his sad hunchback era. Any time Valentin shows up I ever think of is Mike Nelson's impersonation of Michael Feinstein on MST3K.

As for Ava, what's a little near-homicide between mutual baddies out for power? I can see Ava shrugging that off with a few candid conversations about what a pain Sonny is re: her daughter.

Edited by jsbt
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nilyank

nilyank

PM and EK looked at the storylines that were playing and decided to pull the parts that they could use and tie it up with a bunch of characters and stories.

For Pikeman, it had to be someone connected to the show and not a new baddie so the audience would be interested. It is someone that has been trying to kill Sonny three times. Hell if Ava wasn't acting so obviously guilty, I would say it was AJ back from the dead and ready to get his revenge using Jason against Sonny.

But Val fits perfectly with his ties to dirty WSB and Pikeman. With Nikolas in prison and Spencer dead (definitely now think Val has him and maybe even Esme), who do you think will make a play again for Cassadine Industries. Since Laura will have no idea what Val has been doing, I can see him trying to convince her to allow him to run the company in Ace's best interests.

And not for nothing, if the show would ever be able to get Geary back for a very short stint, Val would have gotten him out away before Victor killed Luke.

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dubbel zout

dubbel zout

22 minutes ago, jsbt said:

All they need to do is drop in a gratuitous line of dialogue about Valentin doping Sonny with "Triskelion" crazy pills from the evil tattoo cartel* that made Clint Buchanan nutty on OLTL 2.0, and my idiotic master plan will be complete.

If Val is also running a CIA training school for single moms, my heart will burst with happiness.

7 minutes ago, jsbt said:

I would love it if they finally let her just blow someone away again like she (thought) she did with Carlos. Valentin and Anna were both WSB/DVX. They know how this goes.

As long as they don't weep and moan over it. I've had it with their tears.

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jsbt

jsbt

Oh lord, I forgot Cassadine Industries was a thing that existed. Didn't that come in with Valentin or am I wrong? It seemed like a weird attempt to make the Cassadines normal businesspeople lol.

Just now, dubbel zout said:

As long as they don't weep and moan over it. I've had it with their tears.

They absolutely will, but as long as he gets capped I'm fine.

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Sake614

Sake614

Damn! Valentin has been running Pikeman the whole time? VALENTIN?????  I so did not see that one coming! And he messed with Sonny’s meds! I knew watching him today that he was off them, but thought he just stopped taking them. So now the only question is whether Ava is in on it with Valentin. The jury is still out on that one.

Dante is awake and has exonerated Jason. So now Jason is a free man. AND he blabbed to Sonny and Carly that he’s an FBI informant. Even if Sonny were on his proper meds, there’s no way he’d just hug it out with Jason after that. And of course Carly is all ‘he had his reasons! He just can’t tell us what they are!’  If this is really the person who was going to run Sonny’s mob, maybe he should’ve just stayed ‘dead’ and let her do it. By the time he came back there’d be nothing left. 🤣

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driver18

driver18

One thing...someone mentioned that the only family Ava has is Avery.  Not true.  Since PM/EK have certainly been paying attention to the family ties, I'm sure they're aware that through Julian that Ava is connected to Sam and thus her children, and Leo, and thus the Qs. Also, Trina may not be her daughter, but Portia certainly considers Ava like a second mom to Trina. So, yes, Ava does have ties that the new HW can use to bind Ava to the canvas.

And let's not forget.... there's always the possibility that Carly lied about who Avery's father is. Silas gave the DNA results to her (if I recall correctly), and we all know that it's totes possible that Carly lied about who the baby daddy was to keep Morgan away from Ava's clutches long-term. I'm just saying.

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YaddaYadda

YaddaYadda

23 minutes ago, CeChase said:

I am not crazy for Val like a lot of people, and I never liked Vanna.  I did like him when he was with Nina but he was never a good guy, just look what he did to her?  So I have no problem with this and the idea of Val and Ava teaming up to take out Sonny is so good.  I don't care what their reasons are honestly.  

It seems like a power grab. Sonny controls (hahaha) the eastern sea bord and Pikeman needs that waterway to move their arms. Valentin has been taking out mobsters who have worked with Pikeman left and right, which probably means that Pikeman is the one filling that power vacuum. 

So Olivia Jerome's murder becomes a bit of a weirdness. She was in prison and as far as we know, she did not have any kind of power, so Val has no reason to have her bumped off, but Ava does. 

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jsbt

jsbt

(edited)

I believed for years (and held onto the story idea) that Carly switched the paternity results on Avery because she knew Morgan was not ready to be a father and didn't want him tied to Ava and back under her influence. I'd be all for that, but I think it's a bit late in the day for that now. (Not unlike the dark reveal that Claudia Zacchara was Johnny's mother instead of his sister, which I thought was bleak but made a sick sort of sense; it just was way too late and unnecessary.)

3 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

So Olivia Jerome's murder becomes a bit of a weirdness. She was in prison and as far as we know, she did not have any kind of power, so Val has no reason to have her bumped off, but Ava does. 

Yep. Further, I believe Ava has run arms before solo: With Paul Hornsby.

Edited by jsbt
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driver18

driver18

1 minute ago, jsbt said:

I believed for years (and held onto the story idea) that Carly switched the paternity results on Avery because she knew Morgan was not ready to be a father and didn't want him tied to Ava and back under her influence. I'd be all for that, but I think it's a bit late in the day for that now. 

I dont think it's ever too late for that.  Either to cause issues for Carly, screw with Sonny, free Ava from the Corinthos orbit, or bring Morgan back. It works for any of those things. And if not used for the latter, can still be used again if they do bring Morgan back.

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DanaK

DanaK

I’m not too keen about the amount of exposition between Brennan and Val, but if it gets this Pikeman story moving, all the better; it’s been feeling like endless setup before now. I too didn’t see Val as the head of Pikeman, though I figured he was connected to it with him facilitating a meeting with Sonny for them

And I continue to appreciate the better direction the show seems to be heading in

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GHScorpiosRule

GHScorpiosRule

Blech, yuck, ptooey with that walk down memory lane with Cujo and Jason.

Just what was that, with Cujo lying about Jason not being there-he’s out on bail, no longer a fugitive. And that thank you was unnecessary as I stated before, she already had thanked Jason.

Does Ava not think that Mooby will find out that Olivia texted him about Dante? 

And a big GIANT EWWWWW! to that kiss.

What I did appreciate was the realistic portrayal of Dante having trouble speaking and still being out of it. A lot of times, in previous years, those waking up from a coma were able t understand and talk as if they had taken a nap.

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DanaK

DanaK

9 minutes ago, ciarra said:

Still haven't seen it, but was thinking that Ava would be in the best position (in his home, on Sonny's Island) to mess with Sonny's meds.  And it's nothing she hasn't done before (Morgan).

Per Val, it sounds like wherever Sonny gets his meds from has already messed with them by watering them down, so Ava doesn’t need to be involved at all with that

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jsbt

jsbt

16 minutes ago, DanaK said:

Per Val, it sounds like wherever Sonny gets his meds from has already messed with them by watering them down, so Ava doesn’t need to be involved at all with that

Doesn't mean she's not since she's on hand, though. Helping him stick to his crazy pills!

IIRC Ava moved in with Sonny shortly after turning damsel in distress re: Austin's murder. It all slots together nicely so far, speculatively.

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ffwbe

ffwbe

While I’ll commend the new writers for writing something more soapy than Dan/Chris have given us the past few years, they aren’t exactly shaking the table. Sonny’s the victim being targeted by some big bad, Jason the big hero who will save the day, and Carly’s alternating between screaming like a banshee and obsessing about Jason. The rest of the show has been miles better but those 3 aren’t giving us anything I haven’t already seen dozens of times.

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jsbt

jsbt

Again, it's about the details re: the Big 3 for me. Sonny and Jason are being called on their shit. Jason's latest return is not being treated like the second coming. Carly has been questioned by her daughter. Jason is in a unique position based on where he's been and what he's been doing. And I do think Steve is showing up for work, which is rare. So for me, the jury is out.

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Culture Check: How can we discuss a character's or actor's appearance without objectifying them? How can we express likes or dislikes and still respect an individual's humanity or be mindful that a character represents a person someone else might relate to or identify with?

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