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Episode Discussion II: The TFGH


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Culture Check: How can we discuss a character's or actor's appearance without objectifying them? How can we express likes or dislikes and still respect an individual's humanity or be mindful that a character represents a person someone else might relate to or identify with?

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It does not matter how many times I watch those scenes, I dissolve into tears every time. 

I just watched the scenes the other day and still just watching that video and I am crying again! Good good stuff.

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I feel like Kevin has mixed feelings about Esme. Yes, she's his niece.  but, that's because she's his psycho brother's daughter.

I tend to agree, I just wish the show ... showed us some of that. Even exploring that would give JL more to do in the story.

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5 hours ago, jacourt said:

 how does someone support themselves during the time they’ve been dead ?  

working the red light district like he's roxanne
 

TyDHZO.gif

 

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(edited)
4 hours ago, LexieLily said:

It continues to boggle me how Jon Lindstrom/Kevin isn't a part of this Esme storyline in any meaningful way. Wouldn't Kevin, ESME'S UNCLE, want to be the one to be with her in the interrogation room?

I'm still holding out hope Kevin is actually Esme's father (her mother is not Heather but someone with whom Kevin had a brief fling) and Ryan found out. Ryan then murdered her adoptive parents so he could raise his niece in Ryan's image in order to get back at Kevin. 

 

Edited by Mirabelle
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3 hours ago, statsgirl said:

ETA: I heard that JL wrote a book. Maybe he's on a book tour?

The book isn't being released until next month. He is working on the audio version. This Esme storyline feels empty without Kevin's involvement. I remember his feelings of guilt because he was dealt a better hand than Ryan when it came to childhoods. 

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IMO, they don’t care about Kevin as a character so I’m not surprised he doesn’t have much going on and gets ignored outside of being Laura’s plus one. They only wrote for JL as Ryan

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(edited)

It’s kind of ridiculous they’re not playing more flashbacks. Hearing Lynn and Kin struggle to churn out endless clumsy exposition about Bobbie’s past and then Becky like a clickbait soap site with zero clips is arduous to watch. Kin looked like he was passing a kidney stone having to remind the audience that Bobbie brought Luke Spencer to town and ruined his life for the 300th time. I'm hoping they're saving the clips for today and tomorrow.

Sonny and Dante have had slowly decomposing variations on the same conversation for over 10 years. "You okay?" "You're a cop!" "But I'm your son too!" Their relationship has barely moved an inch and is so weak. Say what we will about the Guza years, but both Dante and his relationship to his hated father was dark, complex and layered for awhile before just settling into the apologist comfort zone. It's criminal how Frank and Ron discarded him, like most of the male leads that predated them, as a male-presenting spare part to plug into couplehood or clueless vacuity. Dante used to be a soulful character. Even Michael had an edge and layers.

Cody/Sasha scenes are unbelievably boring. Sasha is like a genial test pattern onscreen. Josh Kelly is talented but this vacant expository material is not his forte, and despite the awkward explanations I have zero idea what they're talking about. Just let him be the jolly stable stud boffing lonely ladies like Liz! 

Laura Wright is doing great and I am not going to hate on Bobbie's daughter getting the spotlight with an actor who has been in the role for almost 20 years. But I’m sorry, these scenes with Becky would just hit different with Sarah Brown. Carly's paranoia and hatred towards Elizabeth was boundless in those days. Laura is a very strong recast and always has been even with the mostly bad material she's gotten in recent years - and Guza could write well for her at times. She has some of the same kind of brute strength the original had. But anyone who saw Sarah in the role, especially live and especially with her onscreen enemies, doesn't forget it.

Edited by jsbt
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1 hour ago, ljr said:

Why do they keep bringing back Jason? 

Because they're under the impression that we are clamoring for his return.

I bet that's the whole reason they've been dragging their feet with the Pikeman and mob storylines.

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Well once Jason returns the pcpd should just lock the doors and walk away. He will solve every crime be it local state federal or international. 

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I watched when I was in high school. Then some in college and once I started having kids I stopped. Then I watched again but stopped when it got so mobby and guns were flashed around so much. Don’t know the years because that’s not my strong point. Well I started again last year because I got home from work in time to see the last half.  Many times it helped me nap.  So now I’ve retired and figured something to plan my day around.  Well now I am so disappointed that SB is coming back.  If it goes down that same path with him being the wonder boy I’m done  I guess I’ll have to try either B&B or Y&R.  I’m so sad. There are characters on the show I am invested in but Jason will overshadow all. Any suggestions on which other ships is watchable?  
 

 

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(edited)

I will say I wonder just how things will go with Steve this time. His last return didn't really set the show on fire, and frankly his appearance has dramatically changed. His story ended up all over the place near the end for what has to be some serious BTS reasons. It's not 2004 anymore, let alone 2012. He will be forced back into the frontburner at all cost for the umpteenth time of course, but I'm not sure just how good a fit that's going to be at this point after the last round failed to change the world. Almost every contract character or actor he's had regular story with is as worn out as he is, with the exception IMO of LW who even when Carly is insufferable never fails to give it 110% and never even looks tired (and Becky/Liz is probably not an option, plus I think going back there would be DOA). So I wonder if he'll stay as teflon as ever.

ETA: I do love that with almost no LGBT folks on contract or canvas all the gays in the writers' room just consistently tell hambone Maura to flounce in off the RPDR runway and take it away in scene after scene! This is the second time they’ve made Maura talk about Esme going to the “hoosegow” in a week and I love it. "Are youuuu returnning to fooorrmm?" Yes! She is! I laughed out loud when she flatly turned down Laura's foolhardy soft sell, now that the show's latest year-long flirtation with 'what if we made this psychopath... good?' has apparently ended. And Esme getting Loud and whiny when she’s caught yet again is at this point a proud tradition. Small favors.

Edited by jsbt
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(edited)

Not to mention, SB already talked about leaving again in a few years in his podcast. He’s not the same, his following is not the same, and the entertainment business is not amenable to aging. He’s there for the check until his other irons in the fire heat up. You may think that but you don’t say that... Other people will likely lose their jobs again in this… Everyone there at one time or another may have envisioned themselves winning an Oscar, but they are employed actors and people like China Beach Jeff Kober work there. Coming back strutting like a peacock is something else and is not something I would reintroduce onto the set. Hopefully the hot young ones see this dude for the cautionary tale he is about arrogance and not appreciating the all too rare successes you have in that business and making the most of them. 

Maura was incredible yesterday and I loved Ava reading Esme for filth. 

Edited by ComeWhatMay
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This whole thing makes no sense to me.  We are told Bobbie wasn't out in the field working, personally safe girls from being trafficked. Which makes sense, because she's never been trained for that and she would have been a little old for just getting into that line of work.  Therefore, it makes no sense why the organization she was volunteering for wouldn't know what happened to the girl she was trying to help.  Felicia and Carly should have no need of going over there.  And what is this "contact" business?  Again, that seems like something the organization should know.  Even in the retcon version, Bobbie's only been gone a few months.  Seems like really fast to cultivate contacts that nobody else knows about and going out on her own and...?

This does kind of remind me of something I'm sure everybody else has forgotten, of how she went to Florida to save Melissa and Lori from becoming prostitutes.

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Does anyone know who was the actress playing Angela?  They put so much focus on her that I figured she is someone important.  I thought possibly Jackie's Zeman's daughter but she didn't look like either of the photos I found online.  Then I thought maybe she was the actress who played BJ all those years ago:  Brighton Hertford.  Yes??)

image.png.1701e1bcd206b887e2c6c3f9fd3f670e.png

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Just now, perkie1968 said:

I thought maybe she was the actress who played BJ all those years ago:  Brighton Hertford.  Yes??)

Yes, it's her as the reporter. I suspected she was going to appear, but I still think TG, Sarah Brown, Tamara and Brad Maule should turn up.

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Only one flashback today, Bobbie talking to Alexis about being abused (after Kristina was abused by Keifer), which I thought was weird at the time but in hindsight of this human trafficking story they're starting, made more sense.  

Robert should have been there as well as all hospital staff, Terri, Portia, Finn, Amy, Deanna, Dr Navarro.  Also CamMath should have shaved for the occasion.  

Im going to guess that the contact in Amsterdam will turn out to be Jason with amnesia?  

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Thanks @jsbt.   My end credits cut off and there was no credit for today on her imdb page yet.  Plus in the online photo her hair is much darker than it was in today's episode so I wans't sure if it was her or not.  

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25 minutes ago, perkie1968 said:

Does anyone know who was the actress playing Angela?  They put so much focus on her that I figured she is someone important.  I thought possibly Jackie's Zeman's daughter but she didn't look like either of the photos I found online.  Then I thought maybe she was the actress who played BJ all those years ago:  Brighton Hertford.  Yes??)

image.png.1701e1bcd206b887e2c6c3f9fd3f670e.png

 

24 minutes ago, jsbt said:

Yes, it's her as the reporter. I suspected she was going to appear, but I still think TG, Sarah Brown, Tamara and Brad Maule should turn up.

Really? Wow, that’s pretty cool

Good episode today with Bobbie’s funeral. I suspect tomorrow will be a memorial type thing with people remembering her at Kelly’s

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6 hours ago, ljr said:

Why do they keep bringing back Jason? 

 

it wouldn't even be that bad if he would come back as Jason Q but SB only wants to play Jason Morgan. I asked on Reddit truly why would anyone want their favourite leading lady to play against Jason because he never fights for his woman, defends his woman (against Carly), doesn't want to do love scenes. (well on GH anyway, I dunno if he did them on DOOL or Y&R). I'm not really sure why he's such a draw for people. (again admittedly people can like whom they like) but for me whatever was intriguing for him just dies out because he just stands there trying to decide if he needs to take a poo.

The only thing that i am looking forward is Carly literally flying towards Jason screaming how much she missed him while Drew stands in the cold again. 

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34 minutes ago, perkie1968 said:

Does anyone know who was the actress playing Angela?  They put so much focus on her that I figured she is someone important.  I thought possibly Jackie's Zeman's daughter but she didn't look like either of the photos I found online.  Then I thought maybe she was the actress who played BJ all those years ago:  Brighton Hertford.  Yes??)

image.png.1701e1bcd206b887e2c6c3f9fd3f670e.png

When Maxie interacted with her at the church, I thought for sure they were about to introduce Bobbie's long lost daughter. Maybe it was the hair color.

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Nice of them to include JZ in the opening slideshow one last time.

Elizabeth is being way too nice to Carly. They are not that close, despite their individual feelings for Bobbie.

Since when was Bobbie Catholic or Episcopalian? She wasn't an atheist like Luke was, but I don't think organized religion was her thing.

OMG, they hauled Felix out of the closet to act as a pallbearer.

6 minutes ago, perkie1968 said:

Only one flashback today, Bobbie talking to Alexis about being abused (after Kristina was abused by Keifer), which I thought was weird at the time but in hindsight of this human trafficking story they're starting, made more sense.  

We got a tiny flashback from the BJ's heart story.

I wish the service had been longer so we could see those flashbacks, but for the actors' sake, I'm kind of glad it was on the shorter side. I can't imagine how brutal it was to get through those scenes.

Of course Drewfus immediately volunteers to go to Amsterdam with Carly, without a single thought of his daughter. Or the mother of said daughter, for that matter. Not that he needs Sam's permission, but a courtesy head's up wouldn't be amiss.

 

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1 minute ago, dubbel zout said:

Of course Drewfus immediately volunteers to go to Amsterdam with Carly, without a single thought of his daughter.

Funny how he keeps voluntarily separating himself from the kid he wailed was basically ripped from his loving bosom by Nina.

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51 minutes ago, perkie1968 said:

Only one flashback today,

I'm sorry but that is absolutely pathetic. In the nearly 50 years that Jackie was on the show, Frank couldn't arse himself and/or the brass couldn't let the many, many flashbacks be shown? A tribble here, a whiffle there and we should be satisfied with that?

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On 1/8/2024 at 3:13 PM, statsgirl said:

Didn't Carly once slap Liz at Kelly's when she was working as a waitress there?  Something about Jason sleeping with Liz.

She was extremely jealous when she saw (through the window) teenage Liz, then a waitress at Kelly's, slow dancing with Jason. She went to the Penthouse looking for answers about what was going on between Liz and Jason. Sonny taunted her about Jason, although I can't recall if she demanded confirmation of her worst fears that he was sleeping with Liz, and he let her believe she was correct, or if he flat out lied and said yes.  Carly wanted to hurt Jason because she was feeling hurt/betrayed and Sonny was feeling self-destructive, so cue hate sex aka the beginning of CarSon.

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28 minutes ago, DanaK said:

I suspect tomorrow will be a memorial type thing with people remembering her at Kelly’s

I think what we got today was it.  They've started this Amsterdam story which is what my pvr is listing for tomorow.  Plus they're going to go back to Curtis' surgery.  

 

18 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

Nice of them to include JZ in the opening slideshow one last time.

This made me cry so hard, because I knew it would be the last time.  Guh.  

19 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

but a courtesy head's up wouldn't be amiss.

I thought it was hilarious that Carly was all, "im leaving tongiht, oh by the way Joss, you need to take care of Donna".  Yep, mother of the year that one.  

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17 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

Elizabeth is being way too nice to Carly. They are not that close, despite their individual feelings for Bobbie.

Everyone is way too nice to Carly who will promptly forget all of this.

Going by this, a new viewer would think that Carly is the only child Bobbie had and that their relationship was exemplary.

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(edited)
  1. 1 hour ago, perkie1968 said:
    1. Robert should have been there as well as all hospital staff, Terri, Portia, Finn, Amy, Deanna, Dr Navarro. 

Please please please tell me Leslie Charleston, Jonathan Jackson and Kimberly McCullough are included in the farewell to Bobbie. Monica, Lucky and Robin were so very important to her.  I don't recall that Robert was as close to her as they were. 

I wan to see GF, BH, JJ and Ryan Carnes together. Their characters need to hug and comfort each other. It is glaring and inexcusable if Luke's kids are not there and not mentioned. I would hope Geary would make a cameo for JZ, even if none of the characters see him to realize that Luke is actually not dead. 

Edited by Bringonthedrama
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28 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

When Maxie interacted with her at the church, I thought for sure they were about to introduce Bobbie's long lost daughter. Maybe it was the hair color.

Knowing these writers, that could still be in play. I saw some anvils there, and the Spencers are the only Legacy family more decimated than the Qs. Maybe Angela is Bobbie's unknown other daughter, or perhaps belongs to Patricia Spencer, who died before we even got to know her.

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11 minutes ago, Bringonthedrama said:

Please please please tell me Leslie Charleston, Jonathan Jackson and Kimberly McCullough are included in the farewell to Bobbie. Monica, Lucky and Robin were so very important to her.

None of them were there today.  Monica is the only one that was mentioned, in that Willow told MIchael when she showed up that Monica wanted to come but was too sick.  

13 minutes ago, Bringonthedrama said:

Ryan Carnes together. Their characters need to hug and comfort each other.

Lucas got a hug from Felix after the ceremony.  

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Not sure why we didn't get a flashback of that scene with Tony laying his head on Maxie's chest to hear BJ's heart while they were talking about it.  There were no words to that scene, the visual was everything.  New viewers would still be touched by it.  Not sure why we didn't get some other flashbacks, either, but maybe they're coming tomorrow.  Please don't be cheap and lazy about this, show.

Robert should definitely have been there.  He and Anna were close enough to Bobbie to have asked her to raise young Robin if they should be killed on the job.

It was nice to see Felix, totally weird not to see any other GH staff besides Liz.  For that matter, and considering the small crowd, it would have been very appropriate to have the funeral where they've had so many others, at the GH chapel.

I was kind of glad Eden McCoy didn't have to play these scenes so soon after her real life loss.  

All of the eulogies were good, but I think my favorite was Scott's.  They really were best friends, on screen and in life.

Good luck to the ladies in Amsterdam.  Too bad they don't know a zillion people who work or worked in an international law enforcement agency like, say, the WSB.

Nice touch bringing Brighton Hertford in.  

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(edited)
2 hours ago, VioletMarx said:

On Twitter they are saying the reporter is played by the little girl who played BJ back in the day.

 

https://soaphub.com/general-hospital/news-gh/brighton-hertford-aka-bj-jones-returns-to-gh-for-bobbies-memorial/

On a side note, at the end of that they mention John Reilly's daughter and I only now realize she's the same person I've been admiring on YouTube for awhile now. She's hilarious! (I vaguely remember when she guested on GH, but I didn't put two and two together.) 

Here's one clip for those interested:

 

Edited by Auntie Velvet
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I can’t imagine how hard it must’ve been for the actors who knew JZ for decades to get through these scenes. I heard Lynn Herring’s voice catch and Kin Shriner seemed to have a terrible time of it, but Scott’s eulogy (and Laura’s/GF’s) were still well done.

When I saw the coffin come in, I broke down and cried.

As others have said, I really wish there would’ve been more flashbacks, especially for new viewers who couldn’t relate and have hospital folks there, WTH?

I’m glad there will be another day for testimonials and hopefully, flashbacks. Having the actress who played BJ come in as a journalist to gather them is lovely.

I’m fine with the Amsterdam plot if it gives KW some good scenes, but I fear it’ll just amount to a way of getting Jason back on screen. 

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(edited)
3 hours ago, Winston Wolfe said:

  Patricia Spencer, who died before we even got to know her.

Yep. You'll never convince me that Carly's presence/voice wasn't her cause of death. Bobbie was about to introduce them; smart old Pat noped right out of that. Pat had been through enough in her life - you really can't blame her for wanting to rest in peace rather than have "sweet Caroline" (tm Luke Spencer" become a part of her world. 

Hopefully someone mentioned that Bobbie is now reunited with her siblings (because they all think Luke is dead) and beloved daughter BJ?

ETA: Did the Show even remember that Pat has a daughter who's on the PCPD? Bobbie comforted her after Pat died.  Lucas not having any Spencer cousins there with him at his mother's funeral sucks.

 

Edited by Bringonthedrama
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Brief detour from today's ep: I've been watching The Brothers Sun on Netflix (it's very entertaining), and one of the characters is watching GH. It's a scene between Valentin and Victor, and when the show ends, the Sun brother is annoyed he has to wait for the next episode. Hee.

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Question for anyone who's watched every day: Did we see much reaction to Gatlin-Holt's death? He was a massive fail of a character, but in the world of the show, he's supposed to have been working at the hospital as a doctor for a while now, he had a long relationship with Maxie, he knew her family. In the episodes I've seen, the only people really talking about him are people involved in the criminal plot. I do remember hospital characters talking about how he hasn't shown up for shifts and isn't returning phone messages, but nothing beyond that. Is his murder public knowledge in PC yet? 

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(edited)

Alexis and Bobbie flashback is what they used? That wasn't exactly the best. The one of Felicia and Bobbie from the heart storyline was great. Nice touch having "BJ" there for it. 

They gave a Lulu mention but what about her brothers who actually could have came? Frisco? Where's Robert and Mac supposed to be? 

Where's the fellow doctors or nurses? Finn, Portia, etc.. Even Dex not being there for Joss. 

Instead there's Alexis, Kristina, Sam who didn't even hug her brother. 

Edited by Artsda
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4 minutes ago, NotMySekrit2Tell said:

Question for anyone who's watched every day: Did we see much reaction to Gatlin-Holt's death? He was a massive fail of a character, but in the world of the show, he's supposed to have been working at the hospital as a doctor for a while now, he had a long relationship with Maxie, he knew her family. In the episodes I've seen, the only people really talking about him are people involved in the criminal plot. I do remember hospital characters talking about how he hasn't shown up for shifts and isn't returning phone messages, but nothing beyond that. Is his murder public knowledge in PC yet? 

Yes, Felicia and Maxie discussed him. As did Ava and Nina, as in the personal side of their relationship. If the Qs did, I don't know as I stopped watching for a few weeks.

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the only reason today hit was because JZ actually died and this was more her friends mourning her.  But I didn't need, nor want, Bobbie's death to kick off another storyline for Carly.  Especially because it will no doubt lead to finding Jason.  Hard. Pass.

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6 minutes ago, driver18 said:

Yes, Felicia and Maxie discussed him. As did Ava and Nina, as in the personal side of their relationship. If the Qs did, I don't know as I stopped watching for a few weeks.

They could have been talking about the weather for all the emotion that they displayed

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(edited)

I know it comes out of left field and kind of beggars belief that Bobbie has been helping the trafficked girls of Europe but I really appreciated then touching on that story point and giving Ruby and Luke some tarnish for what happened to Bobbie as a child. Not sure this is going to lead to Jason. I'm wondering if we are maybe getting a new character for the teen set in this girl she was trying to help.

The lack of flashbacks is a bunmer, hopefully more tomorrow. But I still burst into tears when Maxie talked about Tony listening to her heart.

And in more prurient news, Ryan Carnes still looks foine. Please bring Lucas back and let him get his freak on all over Port Charles.

Edited by Grinaldi
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7 hours ago, Artsda said:

Alexis and Bobbie flashback is what they used? That wasn't exactly the best.

My main takeaway from it was a reminder of Nancy Lee Grahn's slow-motion aging process. I don't remember that Alexis/Bobbie scene specifically, but Kiefer was around in 2009-10, and I assume Alexis would have been talking with Bobbie about domestic violence then. Alexis looks pretty much the same 14 years later. Yet, at 67, she isn't showing the downside of some actors who go to great lengths to keep the same appearance. She still has expression in her face and doesn't look like a shiny smooth android.

This funeral episode didn't turn on the waterworks for me. They're hitting most of the standard soap funeral beats, but it's...pro forma. The best I can say is that at least they're not dealing with the loss of a decades-serving actor/character in a single episode, but spreading it over a few.  

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14 hours ago, Desperado said:

I can’t imagine how hard it must’ve been for the actors who knew JZ for decades to get through these scenes. I heard Lynn Herring’s voice catch and Kin Shriner seemed to have a terrible time of it, but Scott’s eulogy (and Laura’s/GF’s) were still well done.

LH's voice was absolutely shredded when she was talking to Tracey (JE looked like she was seconds from losing it as well)--and all of the vets were extremely emotional in their scenes and it felt less like the characters were mourning and more like the actual actors grieving over their friend they worked with for forty years.

I can't believe I'm about to give a compliment to Carly but I loved how she pointed out that Luke could have put a stop to Bobbie's being a prostitute with one phone call--damn!

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I don’t think they did a great job with this funeral, especially when you consider the fact that they specifically waited for the regular writers to come back to give it the proper justice. It was rushed and the editing was choppy. Lucas not delivering a speech and Felix being the only one to offer him condolences or comfort him was stupid. It was bad enough that he didn’t find out or get a chance to react to the news onscreen so if they are giving him so little time, they should have made him more than a glorified extra at his own mother’s funeral. The only thing that saved it from being a total disaster was how sad the cast looked and bringing back the BJ actress. 

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17 hours ago, Bringonthedrama said:
  1.  

I wan to see GF, BH, JJ and Ryan Carnes together. Their characters need to hug and comfort each other. It is glaring and inexcusable if Luke's kids are not there and not mentioned. I would hope Geary would make a cameo for JZ, even if none of the characters see him to realize that Luke is actually not dead. 

Geary hasn't even bothered to make a statement about JZ passing. I doubt he is going to fly across the world to make a cameo in her honor. 

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(edited)
37 minutes ago, kitmerlot1213 said:

LH's voice was absolutely shredded when she was talking to Tracey (JE looked like she was seconds from losing it as well)--and all of the vets were extremely emotional in their scenes and it felt less like the characters were mourning and more like the actual actors grieving over their friend they worked with for forty years.

Totally agree. There was real emotion in the room, and it was clear that JZ was well-loved and the feeling was mutual. When JZ appeared in the YT spoof of soaps, her office was decorated with pictures of co-stars she clearly adored, Kin Shriner, Anthony Geary and Sonja Eddy.

Edited by Winston Wolfe
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1 hour ago, VioletMarx said:

Geary hasn't even bothered to make a statement about JZ passing. I doubt he is going to fly across the world to make a cameo in her honor. 

as someone pointed out, he did - but even if he didn't i wouldn't really give him flack for it. some people mourn privately. and i don't think people always need to make statements about someone's passing and how it makes them feel.  just my two pennies.

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Culture Check: How can we discuss a character's or actor's appearance without objectifying them? How can we express likes or dislikes and still respect an individual's humanity or be mindful that a character represents a person someone else might relate to or identify with?

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