Episode Discussion II: The TFGH

[Blackie]

22 minutes ago, ffwbe said:

I thought she was 5

 

I looked it up, she is going to be 9 this year. She's extremely petite. She reminds me of a boy in my neighbourhood who was always very small (but not a dwarf{sorry I don't know the proper medical term}). He was very late in talking and seems to have speech problems too. As a grown 22 year old he is about the size of a 12 year old boy.  Anyways lucky Jophielle, her familyslives part of the year in a French monastery turned into an art retreat.

[dubbel zout]

12 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

That said, I HATE Portia and Curtis badgering Marshall with their pop psychology.  Just tell the man that there were a lot of misdiagnosed POC back 40 years ago and it would be a good idea to get a double check.

This is why I don't understand Marshall's reluctance. He can't change his past actions whether he has schizophrenia or not, so why not find out for sure? It could help him going forward.

Oh, Joss, parents disappoint their children even if the parents aren't mob bosses. Donna and Avery are going to learn that regardless of your idiot ideas.

20 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Michael and Carly: " Nina is self-centred, greedy and unstable. She's already lobbying for a relationship with Willow and the kids."  Horrors. Imagine wanting a relationship with the daughter and grandchildren that you just found out you have when you'd given up on ever being a mother.

It cracks me up how often people make this point. What monster to want to know your kid and grandkids. Good grief. 

LOL that Cam runs out in the middle of his shift to see Joss. Wasn't he on his shift alone? Heh. Good thing he knows the owner.

[lala2]

6 minutes ago, DanaK said:

Some storylines have had a good payoff, but I totally agree that too many have had a weak payoff, like Chase catching Willow and Michael together he and Willow were married and quickly forgiving them

I honestly cannot remember any that have had a good payoff lately. Which ones were you thinking of? I'm seriously at a loss. LOL! 

[Cheyanne11]

7 minutes ago, Daisy said:

Michael: nina is already lobbying to have a relationship with Willow and the Kids
Carly: that woman can't help herself

Michael: Nina is self-serving and Selfish
Carly: I know

really, show? really?. 

The Carlys and their never-ending need for revenge, while never having to face any consequences for their own misdeeds, is beyond boring at this point.  Honestly, writers, this is embarrassing.  

[mostlylurking]

35 minutes ago, ffwbe said:

Although her speech did seem a lot clearer. (ok slightly)

I also noticed the speech has improved.  Thank baby Jesus.  

So Michael gets in one good line about Carly not being much different than Nina, then decides to forgive her anyway.  What a little weenie.

[YaddaYadda]

35 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I don't really know what he big deal about Cam discovering Dex is.  Sure, Joss did cheat on him but she's not now they've broken up.  If show wanted to go for drama have this happen last week before the break up.

She's not cheating on him now that she dumped him, but she did before she dumped him and she was plenty dishonest with him about the other reasons she didn't want to be with him anymore.

People break up all the time. They grown apart, they outgrown each other. Cam was always more into Joss than she was into him. I don't believe she was all that sexually attracted to him. But she did not have the courage to tell him a single thing about the guy she was drooling over. I think it's important that Cam knows the full extent of this.

The Carlys are the fucking pits. We get it, Nina is evil. Whatever, this show is messed up the way they try to even the scales every single time. Nina didn't lobby for a relationship with Willow and the children. And her ass testified against Nelle in Wylie's custody hearing. And her daughter's kidney was sold for parts to save the life of one of the Carlys. And the truth about Nelle was kept from her. I guess that one is all on Jax because he "convinced" Carly to keep her mouth shut because this asshole can never be the bad guy. 

Dex and Joss. Dex is there to just sing Joss's praises, remind her that she is strong and beautiful and how she also loves with her whole heart. Enjoy the vortex of suck.

[jqdeco]

I’m starting to think Austin is involved in sound drug ring. Did Mason imply he will get Maxie’s kid hooked on drugs via a lollipop?

Love Ava. She has chemistry with everyone. If anyone can get Austin out of whatever he is Mixed up in, it will be Ava.

More Carly propping. 🤮

If Cam excuses Joss’s behavior I will quit this show for good.

[mostlylurking]

“It would kill me if you cut me out of your life”.  Ugh, don’t get our hopes up.  HATE!

[dubbel zout]

I hope Nina is a match, because if she's not, Carly will be able to say her decision to keep the secret as long as she did was right—"It didn't matter anyway!" No, thanks. More justification for her lies is the last thing Carly deserves.

11 minutes ago, mostlylurking said:

So Michael gets in one good line about Carly not being much different than Nina, then decides to forgive her anyway.  What a little weenie.

He's such a spineless worm.

Portia mentioned Pip. I wonder if this was written before Sonya Eddy's death.

[Desperado]

1 hour ago, lala2 said:

I really enjoy the chemistry btw Roger and Maura. I did when they were Franco and Ava, and I could w/Austin and Ava. They should let those two hook up. They can heal each other's broken hearts. Plus, Roger is looking very clean and good these past couple of days. I love his hair right now, and that suit shirt and pants looked really good on him! He's quite attractive to me. 

I agree with all of this. It’s clear they’ve been “shopping” Austin around for a more chemistry partner. So glad they moved on from the man bun and hiking clothes. MW needs to sparkle again and I see a better future with Austin than Victor. Still not on board with her hair though. Why does every woman need to be blonde? (Britt has gone and Liz’ hair is still a tragedy).

I wish Maxie would get a similar makeover starting with the dead caterpillars she wears as eyelashes.

Speaking of Austin, the actor playing his cousin is really good at playing a vile guy. Yuck.

I would enjoy Victor/Nik more if I wasn’t wondering about the latter’s exit.

[lala2]

@Desperado - I hear you about Nik. As a MC/Nik fan, I had stopped watching his scenes b/c I don't know how he's exiting, and I wasn't enjoying his story anyway. To this day, I will never understand why they had him sleep w/Esme and why she ended up pregnant. What a stupid way to go, IMO? Even if he was staying, I would be unhappy w/that arc. 

I agree w/you about Maxie. She needs a haircut, better clothing, and better makeup. 

I actually like Liz's hair! It looks like Rebecca dyed it a darker color, and it looks much healthier to me. That lighter color made it look fried and unhealthy. 

Yeah  . . . Nina, Carly, and Ava all have the same whitish, blonde hair that I guess hides grey better or something. It would be nice to see a different hair color. I would love to change NLG's hair. It's been the same color and in the same style for years now! 

[Katy M]

36 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

Nina didn't lobby for a relationship with Willow and the children.

No kidding.  Way to spin tha tMichael. She 100% said she would give willow the marrow with no strings attached.  You don't have to like Nina but don't make crap up.

[Cheyanne11]

10 minutes ago, Katy M said:

No kidding.  Way to spin tha tMichael. She 100% said she would give willow the marrow with no strings attached.  You don't have to like Nina but don't make crap up.

The Carlys are such assholes.  

[ciarra]

At least CW is saying "marrow" rather than "morrow" now.

[Auntie Velvet]

55 minutes ago, ciarra said:

At least CW is saying "marrow" rather than "morrow" now.

LOL, I know. I'm sure it was an awkward time for her to realize it was a tongue-twister for her.

[DanaK]

2 hours ago, lala2 said:

I honestly cannot remember any that have had a good payoff lately. Which ones were you thinking of? I'm seriously at a loss. LOL! 

There certainly weren’t that many lol

Sonny getting his memories back and returning to Port Charles, which resulted in a bunch of changes and a lot of good soapy upheaval, including divorcing Carly and getting together with Nina, the latter of which has been a nice change

Peter’s kidnapping of Maxie and his subsequent death (not the beginning or endless middle though lol). As a result of that, Maxie’s reunion with her daughter and the reveal to a bunch of people that Bailey was her daughter not Brook Lynn’s

Brit’s exit via death by the Hook

There could be others, but these are the ones I could think of off the top of my head since 2020 

[One Tough Cookie]

5 hours ago, Katy M said:

And at least Michael is being consistent saying that he will never forgive Carly

Which by Tuesday they will kiss make up.

[Artsda]

Violet should know what a break up is. She's seen Chase/Willow, plus all of Anna/Finn.  

Joss blames Nina and Sonny for Carly lying about Willow's parentage. Lol I do like her and Dex's chem but her Carly 2.0 mentality I can't stand. 

Michael was angry for 5 mins. Of course Carly can't pay he has to forgive her in minutes. Then they need to attack Nina who none marrow they want. If she's so evil and selfish, she should let Willow die. 

Marshall Emmy reel. 

Isn't Nik the heir not Victor? Why is Nik acting like he's not in control. 

[Desperado]

12 minutes ago, One Tough Cookie said:

Which by Tuesday they will kiss make up.

They did that today already. Not even giving us a weekend of hope.

[One Tough Cookie]

9 minutes ago, Desperado said:

They did that today already. Not even giving us a weekend of hope.

I guess I dozed off--but did anyone really think he would stay mad at the beast?

[Blackie]

Just now, One Tough Cookie said:

I guess I dozed off--but did anyone really think he would stay mad at the beast?

 

He can't stay mad, he basically admitted he would have done the same thing.

[JMO]

Potpourri of thoughts:

Can't help but wonder how this Willow/Michael/Nina/Carly/Sonny story would be going over with likeable characters.  I might actually care.

Is it just me, or does it seem to others that the writers can't commit to a story line, so they throw a bunch of things at the wall to see what sticks?  Thinking of things like the Liz psychological trauma, Austin's skanky 'cousin', even the non-fallout to Liz and Finn for hiding undead Peter's body, Chase and Brooklyn, the obvious chemistry tests between them and other characters.  None of the story attempts feel like a preamble to a bigger story, some wrap too quickly, and some never wrap at all. They all feel to me like, "Hey, here's a great storyline.....uh, never mind, let's try something else."  So many missed opportunities to go in depth, so much apparent fear to do so.

Please, writers:  Every person, and thereby every character has faults, some even a fatal flaw.  But they also have other qualities that make us root for them.  Try very hard to find those qualities, and you will find the real drama in that character fighting against their shortcomings.   Then, pick a storyline and commit to it.  If you get stuck, think harder, and more creatively.  You'll get there.  That's what writing is about. 

 

 

 

Edited January 21, 2023 by JMO
grammar nerd

[Katy M]

29 minutes ago, Artsda said:

Isn't Nik the heir not Victor? Why is Nik acting like he's not in control. 

Because Victor's blackmailing him.

[One Tough Cookie]

16 minutes ago, JMO said:

Is it just me, or does it seem to others that the writers can't commit to a story line, so they throw a bunch of things at the wall to see what sticks? 

That is one of the reasons I only periodically watch this show.

[Cheyanne11]

4 hours ago, statsgirl said:

Michael:  "Dad chose Nina over his family again and again."  Oh please, it's not like he threw you out in the snow. You were an adult and he never rejected his young daughter, his wife divorced him and he moved on. . What a baby Michael is.

 

So I guess the other four times Sonny and Carly divorced it was OK because...?

Quote

Michael and Carly: " Nina is self-centred, greedy and unstable. She's already lobbying for a relationship with Willow and the kids."  Horrors. Imagine wanting a relationship with the daughter and grandchildren that you just found out you have when you'd given up on ever being a mother.

First off, telling a self-centered, greedy and unstable person that someone else is those things gave me quiet the chuckle.  Secondly, their continued--and seemingly growing--anger at Nina is so over-the-top.  The fact that have zero empathy that a woman was put into a coma by her mother and then had her twins taken from her is telling on them and their claims that they're the ones who have been so wronged. Thirdly, Carly's tearful "I just couldn't handle it if you cut me out of your life" was pure manipulation.  The head of the Carlys Cult sure can lay it on thick when she needs to get people in line.

Joss is thisclose to blaming Sonny and Nina for Willow having leukemia in the first place.  I'm sure if she can figure out a way, Cam showing up at her door and catching her with Dex will be their fault, too ("I wouldn't be so vulnerable and sad if Sonny and Nina hadn't destroyed my family").

 

[DanaK]

I can understand on one hand Marshall not wanting to revisit his diagnosis because it won’t change the years away from his family, but if he’s still taking medication and he doesn’t need it, he needs to stop taking it (with medical supervision). It’s also possible he has something else less bad and either needs to adjust his medication or get put on something else. Of course I’m not sure how accurate the show is being having a patient taking medication for schizophrenia who might not have it but hasn’t suffered ill effects from it as far as we know

[statsgirl]

17 minutes ago, Cheyanne11 said:

Joss is this close to blaming Sonny and Nina for Willow having leukemia in the first place. 

It's from Nina's genes. If she hadn't put herself in that coma in the first place, Willow wouldn't be sick. And the stress of Sonny rejecting his family triggered them.

4 hours ago, Blackie said:

Anyways lucky Jophielle, her familys lives part of the year in a French monastery turned into an art retreat.

That would explain why her brother's French was so good in the scene with Valentin and Anna.

4 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

This is why I don't understand Marshall's reluctance. He can't change his past actions whether he has schizophrenia or not, so why not find out for sure? It could help him going forward.

Some people who have Huntington's in the family don't want to get tested and find out if they really have the gene or now. i don't understand it myself since that's one disease that's 100% going to happen but there it is.  🙅‍♂️

[Cheyanne11]

5 hours ago, statsgirl said:

I'm just curious, who has been prescribing these very dangerous drugs to Marshall for 40 years if he hasn't seen a psychiatrist?

Unlimited refills dating back to 1976!

Yeah, the writers didn't think of that plot point.  Quelle surprise.

Edited January 21, 2023 by Cheyanne11

[TeeVee329]

I wish I could be excited by Cam finding out about Joss and Dex becuase it would lead to some soapy denouncements next week, but if anything, this week proved that this show is incapable of fallout.  Cam will probably end up apologizing for showing up unannounced while Joss sagely nods her head, ugh.

[nilyank]

So I haven't been paying attention before today but Austin's boss is a "she."

Victor mentions Hayden to Nik. It has been three years and Nik was still married to her when he first "married" Ava.

[KittyQ]

On 1/19/2023 at 1:00 PM, YaddaYadda said:

but apparently, praying at the chapel is just enough to try and purchase a miracle. 

True! I don't think I've ever seen so many people (praying or not praying) go through a hospital chapel. I wonder what anyone who entered to genuinely seek some solace might have thought when they showed up and all these dramas were going on.

 

[racked]

1 hour ago, TeeVee329 said:

I wish I could be excited by Cam finding out about Joss and Dex becuase it would lead to some soapy denouncements next week, but if anything, this week proved that this show is incapable of fallout.  Cam will probably end up apologizing for showing up unannounced while Joss sagely nods her head, ugh.

There isn’t even a character on the horizon for him to run off and foolishly hookup with/have comfort sex with. The most we can hope for is him crying on Spencer’s shoulder. Which I won’t mind, GH has built a really authentic friendship there, but since WL isn’t on contract I know they’re doing it to push more of Spencer vs Joss/Dex. And some part of me worries their eventual end goal will be Spencer and Joss. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

Not even one day.

I was wrong. Obviously the SLS loved AJ more than he does the SPO.

So, yay?

[30 Helens]

Watching all the Carly reveal/anger/forgiveness episodes in a row, I now know how my dog feels when I take him to the vet. “Oh, this is going to be fun!..What a great ride, just what I wanted!…Damn it, we’re back here again? How disappointing.”

Every single one of those characters missed the point. It doesn’t matter whether Carly knew Willow was sick. It doesn’t matter that her heart was in the right place (whatever that means). She did a terrible awful thing, no matter what the intent or circumstances. And she knew it was wrong because she kept it from everyone, even her dumb drewpy boyfriend. And while I’m not saying she should never be forgiven, it should take more than 5 freaking minutes.  GAH.

I feel like I not only got taken to the vet, I got poked with needles and had a cone of shame wrapped around my neck. Tight.

Other notes: 
I know it seems unbelievable that Hatman would get his drugs refilled for so many years without a follow-up diagnosis, but my mother was prescribed hormones to get through menopause and no doctor ever thought to take her off them for 40+ years until I found out, had a fit and insisted she question the necessity (there was none). Not exactly the same thing as anti-psychotics, but I have no doubt it could happen.

Also: Ava needs to be in every storyline. That is all.

[Daisy]

6 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Not even one day.

I was wrong. Obviously the SLS loved AJ more than he does the SPO.

So, yay?

SPO?
(Spoiled ?? ????)

[PatsyandEddie]

Sainted Pure One coined I believe by GHScorpiosRule. Aka Willow. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 hour ago, Daisy said:

SPO?
(Spoiled ?? ????)

 

1 hour ago, PatsyandEddie said:

Sainted Pure One coined I believe by GHScorpiosRule. Aka Willow. 

What @PatsyandEddiesaid.

[CeChase]

After yesterday I feel like I need a GH break.  It's a bummer because there are things I really like right now.  But I can't take looking at Carly's face any longer.  The absolute delusional conversation written between her and michael was the last straw.  I literally cannot stand her face and it's beginning to bleed over into the actress for me.  That's when I know I need a break.  

[Daisy]

29 minutes ago, CeChase said:

After yesterday I feel like I need a GH break.  It's a bummer because there are things I really like right now.  But I can't take looking at Carly's face any longer.  The absolute delusional conversation written between her and michael was the last straw.  I literally cannot stand her face and it's beginning to bleed over into the actress for me.  That's when I know I need a break.  

That's how i felt. i wanted to watch the fall out of this because i felt it should have had great shockwaves for everyone. I wanted a Bianca Montgomery level bitch slap from Nina to Carly, or at least that  level of a dressing down.  but basically everyone  is all "i get it, Carly, we love you anyway."

they set it up beautifully all the time and then its like "eh. whatever." it's boring an stupid.  

[Cheyanne11]

1 hour ago, CeChase said:

After yesterday I feel like I need a GH break.  It's a bummer because there are things I really like right now.  But I can't take looking at Carly's face any longer.  The absolute delusional conversation written between her and michael was the last straw.  I literally cannot stand her face and it's beginning to bleed over into the actress for me.  That's when I know I need a break.  

Yeah, this is going into "Nina having a nervous breakdown" territory and I am super pissed. Carly and her monstrous cult of followers will be proven right, yet again.  I said it a couple days ago, but I don't know why LW would want to play this.  I know she doesn't write this crap, but if she lobbied for Carly to get some comeuppance, I bet she would.  That leads me to believe she likes Carly being the ultimate winner and it's affecting how I watch this show and not in a good way.

[dubbel zout]

14 hours ago, TeeVee329 said:

Cam will probably end up apologizing for showing up unannounced while Joss sagely nods her head, ugh.

You know the breakup will somehow end up being Cam's fault. What I'd like him to do is sneer at Dex and Joss and then go live his best life as a soccer star at Stanford. Cam deserves all the happiness.

[lala2]

I’m definitely taking a GH break. This show is ridiculously disappointing and I’ve been fooled far too many times lately. Liz’s story was a joke. The Finn/Chase/George father/son plot came and went without much fanfare. Chase wasn’t permitted to be upset with Millow for lying to him for months. Chase didn’t really blow up at BLQ in the way he should have. I’m just not getting anything for my investment; GH is not paying out on drama! 

What was the ultimate result of this week? AFAIC, nothing has changed in any of the relationships. Michael is still hating on Sonny and seeking revenge. (I’m beyond over this dragged out plot.) Willow still hates Nina and wants nothing to do with her. Nina will still have to beg for a relationship, something I would prefer to NOT see. So, this plot did nothing but reveal a secret. Nothing else has changed. We’re still stuck in the same drama. I’m over it, especially since this is the story they choose to feature the most! 

Edited January 21, 2023 by lala2

[CeChase]

8 minutes ago, Cheyanne11 said:

Yeah, this is going into "Nina having a nervous breakdown" territory and I am super pissed. Carly and her monstrous cult of followers will be proven right, yet again.  I said it a couple days ago, but I don't know why LW would want to play this.  I know she doesn't write this crap, but if she lobbied for Carly to get some comeuppance, I bet she would.  That leads me to believe she likes Carly being the ultimate winner and it's affecting how I watch this show and not in a good way.

Exactly.  This is exactly what I think.

And it adds up.  She has the most guaranteed hours of anyone in the cast.  She got her bf a job, and even though his character was widely hated and everyone wanted him gone, he lasted for years.  When Tristan Rogers, a daytime icon, made a comment her bf didn't like in an interview, Rogers was blackballed from the show for a period of time, and even tweeted something about it being "show politics".  Now, come on.  How stupid am I?  I know what's going on, and what used to be a very welcome innocent escape is now pissing me off to point I really questioned why I need this. And I realized I don't.  I have every streaming service out there, so when I need a mental escape, I can certainly find another one. 

[Blackie]

46 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

You know the breakup will somehow end up being Cam's fault. What I'd like him to do is sneer at Dex and Joss and then go live his best life as a soccer star at Stanford. Cam deserves all the happiness.

 

I don't think a breakup of 20 year olds needs to be anyone's fault. It will be good that Cam gets his eyes opened that it wasn't this big love story. Joss wasn't exactly truthful but they are young, it is a learning experience all around, it wasn't like they were married with kids. If this speeds up Cam's moving on then I am all for that. Dex needs to realize the maybe he was messin where he shouldn't have been messin too. 

[Gam2]

CD is just a horrible actor. All he does is look around with a confused look on his face.

[Mirabelle]

Joss straight up cheated on Cam & has been emotionally cheating for months. This is the exact reason why she's been so vocally and vehemently opposed to Sonny - he cheated on her mother or she feels like he did (I refuse to remember the details of Sonny/Carly). A well written soap would have Joss realize she's being a hypocrite and make her rethink trying to turn her sister and Avery against Sonny, but this is not a well-written soap and Joss will continue to have no character growth.

Why this show thought we needed two Carlys (one is more than enough!) is beyond me. I wish the dynamic between Carly and Joss was more like Dorian and Cassie from OLTL - Cassie loved her mother but she saw her mother for what she was and never tried to justify her heinous actions. Then again, Dorian was a far more nuanced character than LW's Carly.

I will give Eden McCoy credit for having that Carly "I CAN'T BELIEVE I'M HEARING THIS!!!" face down cold. It's when Carly/Joss are shocked by whatever is being said to them (mainly because it's not praise or they're being called out) and their mouth drops halfway open and they give a small exhale. I don't know if it's deliberate or something she picked up from sharing so many scenes with LW but they both do it - watch for it next time either are told something they don't like hearing. 

[sashabear21]

Joss sucks. Remember when characters who wanted to become doctors actually did things at the hospital other than just sit around and prop Carly? 

[YaddaYadda]

5 hours ago, CeChase said:

After yesterday I feel like I need a GH break.  It's a bummer because there are things I really like right now.  But I can't take looking at Carly's face any longer.  The absolute delusional conversation written between her and michael was the last straw.  I literally cannot stand her face and it's beginning to bleed over into the actress for me.  That's when I know I need a break.  

The Carlys are all emotionally stunted. Michael fell in love with Willow and slept with her while she was married to his best friend. Joss cheated on Cam with the one tone bobblehead, and Carly was in love with Jason for 20 years. But if anybody dares fall in love with someone who isn't them, then all bets are off and we get a version of the story according to the Carlys. Then this truth gets adopted by every character under the sun. And the audience too.

I don't even understand how Michael can say that Nina was lobbying for time with Willow and the children when she was explicit that she was going to save Willow no strings attached. Because you know, that's what a parent does.

This brand of writing feels like brainwashing.

[Daisy]

4 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

The Carlys are all emotionally stunted. Michael fell in love with Willow and slept with her while she was married to his best friend. Joss cheated on Cam with the one tone bobblehead, and Carly was in love with Jason for 20 years. But if anybody dares fall in love with someone who isn't them, then all bets are off and we get a version of the story according to the Carlys. Then this truth gets adopted by every character under the sun. And the audience too.

I don't even understand how Michael can say that Nina was lobbying for time with Willow and the children when she was explicit that she was going to save Willow no strings attached. Because you know, that's what a parent does.

This brand of writing feels like brainwashing.

and not one of them has the grace to see it from Nina's point of view at all. None of them stopped and went. "gee. how horrible this could be for Nina to realize that she had two babies stolen from her when she was put in a coma by her mother." and both parents sucked for those kids. and Nina (and her husband) were denied the opportunity to know and love their children. 

Oh no no. Michael even double downed on the "well you know if it were Me who was there when Harmony spilled the tea I would have kept the secret too. is all good." without considering the fact at all that keeping the secret from Willow, also means keeping the secret from Nina, which started all this drama in the first place because had Carly had just TOLD NINA what she found out about Nelle (which she easily could have done without putting herself at the cabin/her death whatever).  Nina could have known the truth, mourned and moved on without rightly cluing onto the fact that part of the reason why Carly didn't say a word was because she wanted to start eliminating everything Nelle from their lives. 

Then because "Nina told Wiley Willow wasn't his mommy" something I refuse to believe because they actually showed us what Nina said,  and Willow (not the golden spawn) had her feelings hurt, that's when he started to ice Nina out, and then WILLOW got pissed at Nina because Nina didn't spill all the tea about why Carly was mad at Nina for sleeping with Sonny. (which was none of her business), 

And let's also remember the reason why "Nina harassed the family," was that she kept constantly begging to spend any time with her grandson (even with supervision) they said no and then Willow was like "well maybe if you give us your rights eventually I'll try to convince Michael to let you see him" (so sweet) and Nina was even going to do that to keep the peace until Ava + Col. Tad told her that was a stupid idea.  (and then it was Scotty's dumbo idea to attack Michael etc the way he did not Nina, but that was Nina's fault apparently for even considering suing for the right to see her grandchild. not custody or anything. just to spend five minutes with the kid every few weeks).  - something that apparently that kid would like considering that he screamed "Grandma Nina!" and hugged her like it was christmas day (but according to the Carly's "Wiley doesn't even know/care about Nina.") 

but here they both are sitting in the hospital griping that Nina wants to know her daughter and grandchildren (which i didn't even see Nina doing. she was basically sobbing to Lisel about how much she screwed up hurting Willow all those times. i didnt see any "lobbying" on her part). 

it's been three years and Nina is still being dragged over the coals about keeping quiet about Nixon Falls, and how she made them grieve and mourn someone who wasn't dead. (which IS bad don't get me wrong)

It's been three years and Carly withheld the fact from Nina about her children twice and would have never allowed Nina the chance to know/grieve one child, and go through her entire life knowing she had another live child, AND not know about any children (or great grand children) she could have had.  (which is equally bad, but not one person on this show, who isn't Lisel is pointing out how exactly bad this is to them they are justifying it). 

[Melgaypet]

1 hour ago, YaddaYadda said:

I don't even understand how Michael can say that Nina was lobbying for time with Willow and the children when she was explicit that she was going to save Willow no strings attached. Because you know, that's what a parent does.

I wonder how Michael and Willow would react if Nina did back off completely? "Of course I'll donate if I'm a match, but you're under no obligation. My door is open if you want a relationship, the ball's entirely in your court."

I'm guessing they wouldn't like it. They live at the center of the universe and they have cast Nina as the villain. If she steps back like they say they want, it'll be "See! Nina doesn't really care about Willow and/or Wiley!"