Episode Discussion II: The TFGH

[Desperado]

2 hours ago, ciarra said:

Yes, but he founded the General Hospital Stone Cates AIDS wing.  And he donates to the Church.

Which gives him the right to beat up people in the Church.

[lilabennet]

10 minutes ago, Daisy said:

 

wasn't she in a happy, healthy stable relationship with lucky and franco?

 

No.  Lucky verbally, emotionally, and physically abused her.  Franco was a rapist.  It is absolutely disgusting what the show did to her character to have her paired with him.

[CeChase]

For John, I want to see chem tests with Nina, Liz, and Jordan.  I'm not sure yet, as long as it's not Ava, Carly, or Anna.  IMO Alexis and Anna are not in the right age range and Ava and Carly are mob molls/mobsters themselves. 

[Cheyanne11]

The tearful fucking reunion--I cannot.  Also Carly desperately on the phone in the previews begging someone (Diane?) to stop the search warrant.  Do fuck off, Carly.

[Sake614]

So John and Anna show up at Carly’s house while Carly is on the sofa with Jason. They knock, announce themselves and then wait. Meanwhile there are huge ass windows on either side of the door, but neither of them thought to look through them to see what was happening inside? Instead John tells Anna they should try another entrance. 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄 but it was a thing of beauty to watch John tell Carly that they have a warrant. Of course next week she’s on the phone, presumably with Diane, telling her to put a stop to a legally executed search. With any luck Jason will pass out and fall down the stairs right into their laps and end up in jail. It won’t last, but he should be right at home there…

while Joss isn’t wrong about Sonny, why did she bring Dex back to PC if she thinks Sonny is so dangerous to those around him? Oh yeah because Michael said Sonny need Dex. 
 

Ava, wtf Are you thinking? WHY do you want Sonny? After the way he’s treated you over the years, you should want to be far, far away from him!

 

[DanaMB]

1 hour ago, driver18 said:

Elizabeth. Is. In. A. Relationship. A healthy, happy, stable relationship for the first time in her life.

But that means nothing on a soap.

[lilabennet]

I think Elizabeth should begin therapy.  They wouldn't have to show any of the sessions if they don't want to, just a throwaway line along the lines of: "I've had some therapy to bandage over trauma just enough to be functional, but I've never had real, long-term therapy addressing all of my issues from childhood through to now."  Then in a few months maybe I can get the knock-down, drag-out fight I want between her and Jason where she reads him for the filth he is.  It is a travesty that she was never allowed to truly confront him (other than that glorious slap when Jake "died") because that would have meant the show and the audience having to acknowledge what a bastard Jason is.  A proper soap would have mined that drama for the gold it was, but nooooo, instead we had to cling to the fiction that Jason is the Golden Boy.

[perkie1968]

4 hours ago, YaddaYadda said:

I found it hilarious that Anna and Jagger showed up at Carly's with a warrant.

Loved that.  Carly throwing her weight around and invoking the lawyer only to have John says he didn't need her permission because he had a warrant.  

4 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

And she probably just realized the horror show of who her parents are and that's why she's so upset.

And you win the internet for today!!!

3 hours ago, ciarra said:

've also lost track of feverish Ace.

Kevin was with him getting a prescription for his ear infection.  

4 hours ago, YaddaYadda said:

I found it hilarious that Anna and Jagger showed up at Carly's with a warrant.

Loved that.  Carly throwing her weight around and invoking the lawyer only to have John says he didn't need her permission because he had a warrant.  

4 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

And she probably just realized the horror show of who her parents are and that's why she's so upset.

And you win the internet for today!!!

3 hours ago, ciarra said:

've also lost track of feverish Ace.

Kevin was with him getting a prescription for his ear infection.  

[Pingaponga]

I would have expected Sonny-now-Carly's house to have the equivalent of a priest hole where Jason could hide. Shouldn't a mob king-pin have a secret room where his family could secretly hide if the house is ever attacked by rivals or the police suddenly show up?

[Grinaldi]

I could see Carly being anti-panic room after what Ric did. But this is a good point.

17 minutes ago, Pingaponga said:

would have expected Sonny-now-Carly's house to have the equivalent of a priest hole where Jason could hide. Shouldn't a mob king-pin have a secret room where his family could secretly hide if the house is ever attacked by rivals or the police suddenly show up?

 

[Artsda]

Michael stayed home and didn't go the hospital because why? Look after kids, Willow was home. 

Joss wasn't wrong today in everything she said.

Great friend Nina has who will probably end up in bed either husband. 

Anna knows Carly's lying from her freak out. 

Sam's writing or acting choice is very flat.  Kristina showed more emotions crying over her brother and talking baseball than Sam who supposedly in love with him. 

[ciarra]

Where are Carly's guards -- that Jason can enter the house without being seen, and Jagger and Anna can show up unannounced?

Carly's guards:

Edited March 9 by ciarra

[Mirabelle]

Sonny's guards have never been very good at guarding. I remember when anyone - including elderly, wheelchair-bound Lila- was able to barge into the penthouse with Max (surely a nepotism hire) apologetically saying, "I'm sorry, I couldn't stop him/her," and Sonny would resignedly wave his hand and say, "It's fine."

[racked]

7 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

But those tears from Jason? WHY?!! I have a very bad feeling about that. I only watched to see if he would explain why he was alive and didn’t tell her. But resuming the fast forward button going forward.

 

I have to admit I’m kind of surprised they’re actually going to go for it after all these years. I had assumed the almost Carly/Jason scenes before Sonny also came back from the dead were only thrown in because they knew Steve was on his way out. But I think they’re really gonna try it this time. And like a really bad car wreck I won’t be able to look away. 

Silver lining will be watching Drew get cast aside like yesterday’s trash. The potential he had that first week he was on, that disappeared as soon as his beard did. He’s become Ryan Lavery at his most sanctimonious. 

[Winston Wolfe]

4 hours ago, Sake614 said:

Ava, wtf Are you thinking? WHY do you want Sonny? After the way he’s treated you over the years, you should want to be far, far away from him!

Because no one on a soap can stay single for very long, except for Cyrus.

[jsbt]

3 hours ago, racked said:

I have to admit I’m kind of surprised they’re actually going to go for it after all these years. I had assumed the almost Carly/Jason scenes before Sonny also came back from the dead were only thrown in because they knew Steve was on his way out. But I think they’re really gonna try it this time. And like a really bad car wreck I won’t be able to look away. 

Whatever happened BTS in 2021 with Jason going through multiple women at record speed must've been wild. Steve had also vetoed Carly as a love interest since the Sarah Brown days, til that year. I have next to no investment in Jason and haven't for decades, but if Steve and Laura do good work and the scripts are there I will watch and see what plays. 

Edited March 9 by jsbt

[Grinaldi]

If for no other reason than it keeps other characters free and untainted I am also fine with them finally pulling the trigger on Jason and Carly. What happens if she's the dog who finally caught the car? 

[jsbt]

I about died when Laura mentioned the days with both Lucky and Sly Eckert under her roof and mentioned Sly aloud on Thursday's show. I really appreciated the time taken to try and differentiate the two older boys staying at the Quartermaine atm - they've gone out of their way in the last week or two to present Danny as trying to mimic his noble stoic impression of his absentee father, while the very rarely seen Rocco seems more outwardly sensitive and reminds me of Dante himself. I liked the scenes with Laura and Carly with each of them; these are relationships we so rarely see on this show over the last decade-plus with children not named Spencer or Violet (or played by former OLTL child stars, like poor non-actor Patrick Gibbons as Wyatt the Boy Scout). In the Guza II years many of the children were more fleshed out, but they were also often reduced to cute tics or vignettes designed to prop up the mob, like precocious Molly and Morgan roaming around town cheering on Jason and Sam. They had a lot of character, but it got almost as old as Nicolas Bechtel's Spencer for me. (The less said about Dylan Cash the better.) We can all say 'oh, but where was this Danny or Rocco before' and the answer is the show didn't give a shit and soap kids are often offscreen til a point like now. So why not try it now? Anyway, this is all connective tissue the show has really improved on with a lot of characters over the last week. And the fact that they've charmed me with the Spixie scenes, both together solo or with Wagger, etc. for the first time since 2009 or so (and made me watch Kirsten Storms actually wake up for work again) is impressive.

FWIW I didn't think Carly was saying Jason was a raging mess of impulse; she specifically tells Danny he controlled and restrained himself, which it can be said he did vs. the often volatile or instinctive young Jason Morgan of the '90s, back when he actually had a three-dimensional character.

It does sound like Lulu is on the way back. And nice to see in the next time preview (do I need to spoil this?)

Spoiler

that they're playing Jake too (opposite Finn and Liz) on Monday.

 

Edited March 9 by jsbt

[jsbt]

As for Friday, I think Kate Mansi, Burton and LW all did good work. They've really played the beats and impact of the shooting across the canvas. This would admittedly play differently for me if it was Lexi Ainsworth at Dante's bedside (or Sarah Brown with the unexpectedly emotional Steve), but oh well.

They are also wisely playing up the tension with Nina and Ava (who I still think is back on baddie time while also possibly catching genuine feelings for Sonny in the process of her long con on him and the local mob families; she's gone down bad for worse). People forget that Ava stole Nina's husband in the '90s which led to Nina ending up in a coma for 20 years and coming out a psychotic bent on vengeance. History could easily repeat here and Nina is still not very tightly wound, as the unhinged mania of Cynthia Watros often reminds us. I don't think it would take much for Nina to snap again if that happened twice and I think it is on the show's mind. They are also clearly setting up Alexis going back to the law via the conversation with Diane.

It is wild to remember that Carly's Bed Bath and Beyond makeover house is still Sonny's Greystone Manor, the set Maurice allegedly made the show give him in the mid-2000s when he wanted a home with the stature of Wyndemere. Too many sets/homes in town these days have the all-white BB&B knockoff Nancy Meyers look, including the Quartermaine mansion, but I've been over that before I think. At least it's not all grey paint and monochrome like in the early-mid 2010s. It has improved, but I'd like to see more color/style variety.

Edited March 9 by jsbt

[dubbel zout]

13 hours ago, Sake614 said:

while Joss isn’t wrong about Sonny, why did she bring Dex back to PC if she thinks Sonny is so dangerous to those around him? Oh yeah because Michael said Sonny need Dex. 

Nah, Joss brought Dex back to PC because it makes it easier for them to fuck.

[perkie1968]

13 hours ago, Artsda said:

Sam's writing or acting choice is very flat.

She needs to be conflicted now that Jason is back so she has to show that she really doesn't love Dante that much and was just passing time.  Even though JaSam were done, stick a fork in them, long before SBu left.  Well, at least Dante didn't force Sam to wear dresses, so that's a point in his favour.  

 

12 hours ago, ciarra said:

Jagger and Anna can show up unannounced

I found it funnier that they knocked on the door, waited 8 seconds than said, lets' go look for another entrance.  Who does that?!!  The only time that I haven't waited at the front door for whoever to open it, is if it's a family birthday party and I know that they're in the backyard.  I'd be so annoyed if someone decided to go looking for the back or side door just because I didn't get to the front one in time.  

 

1 hour ago, dubbel zout said:

Nah, Joss brought Dex back to PC because it makes it easier for them to fuck.

Sonny and anger towards Sonny is apparently Joss' aphrodesiac.  I'm surprised she didn't shove Millow out of the way and started shoving her tongue down Dex' throat right there on their couch, with the kids upstairs.  

[ffwbe]

I think that they’re having Sam appear standoffish because she’s been in denial about Dante being in a dangerous line of work. They done those SLs in the past with a cop character’s SO being worried about them getting hurt at work or in a dangerous situation but Sam’s pretty much been in her bubble about how Dante is the safe choice and not super worried when he’s working. 

[Daisy]

20 hours ago, lilabennet said:

Lucky verbally, emotionally, and physically abused her.

outside of Lucky's drug addiction(to which while that was 100 percent wrong, something he would never do whilst sober) and him being pissed off that she cheated on him with his brother for months (to which most people would be) - when did that happen? dead serious - because i don't remember that. 

 

20 hours ago, lilabennet said:

It is absolutely disgusting what the show did to her character to have her paired with him.

So other than not liking Franco because he was a rapist - did Liz not have a loving, stable relationship with him? did he treat her like crap? 

[ffwbe]

20 minutes ago, Daisy said:

So other than not liking Franco because he was a rapist - did Liz not have a loving, stable relationship with him? did he treat her like crap? 

FWIW, I don’t think he treated her well all  of the time. The way they started them up was disgusting. Franco was essentially stalking her and saying how he should date her because all of her kid’s were fatherless and she was the town parish too whether she thought she was or not so they were the same. He negged her quite a bit and made her believe she didn’t deserve anyone better.

I don’t think he was ever the ideal partner- they just used her kids to sell that pairing. All of them had their moments where they were closer to Franco or could only open up to him and ignored the kids’ relationships with their mother. The running theme was that they were all so desperate for a male figure and no way could single mom Liz be enough for her group of boy children. Notice how they’ve completely gone back on that after he died. There were a ton of red flag moments when they were actually together as well.

Liz when she was with Franco was her most annoying time for me. She was insufferable about how everyone thought he was trash and would get in people’s faces about it screaming how he was a good person.  

[jacourt]

For all the angst about protecting Avery both her parents put themselves in a dangerous situation. 

[Cobalt Stargazer]

3 hours ago, Daisy said:

outside of Lucky's drug addiction(to which while that was 100 percent wrong, something he would never do whilst sober)

I would add that Lucky's addiction happened at least in part to make it okay for Liz to have sex with freaking Jason, which resulted in Jake's conception. Because there's a piece in there where Liz's taste in men has always been around the level of Harley Quinn's (Jason, Franco, Nikolas) and the Lucky thing was mostly to protect Jason, who can never be seen as in the wrong, not for Liz's benefit.

[lilabennet]

Lucky is the child of an addict.  His addiction was 100% believable and in character.

It is amazing to me how the narrative of the show is as effective as propaganda.  Lucky was a drug addict who cheated on Elizabeth and everyone who should have been her support system was somehow on his side.  They used the drug addiction to justify his actions and fans are still doing the same decades later.  In real life if a single mother was married to a drug addict, then the drug addiction ALONE would be enough for her friends and family to urge her to leave him.  Not here.  Instead Emily, Nikolas, and even her own grandmother guilted her into propping him up and forgiving him for having an affair because it was somehow the fault of the drugs and not Lucky.  It is still as sickening now as it was then.

Edited March 9 by lilabennet
Damn affective v effective!

[jsbt]

I don't remember Lucky ever being physically abusive. He was obviously not a perfect spouse but neither was she.

Liz should never have been with Franco, which was all about giving Roger Howarth job security chained to a dependable, longtime fanbase desperate for any BTS investment. Just like Michael Easton's third shot at winning the viewing audience, where the notable majority now seems to viscerally despise the pairing. Frank puts Becky with these guys because he knows Becky's fanbase is diehard and has weathered every storm possible and knows that if they can get behind a guy it is security. Too many got behind Franco until the network intervened post-#MeToo; Finn is another story. Frank uses Elizabeth as a pension plan for OLTL stars. And I didn't even think Finn and Liz was that bad a couple years ago. Now he definitely gotta go.

Edited March 9 by jsbt

[lala2]

As a GV/Lucky and Franco fan, Liz had stable, loving relationships with them both, especially Franco. Friz was her best adult pairing to date. The chemistry between the actors was amazing! Franco loved her and only her, and he loved all her kids too! Franco did nothing but worship Liz. He was wonderful to her. 

Edited March 9 by lala2

[GHScorpiosRule]

57 minutes ago, jsbt said:

I don't remember Lucky ever being physically abusive

He wasn’t. Because of the horrendous storyline and to show that Jaysus was the better choice, while drugged up, he pushed Elizabeth away, and she fell. ALL of this was done to push the narrative that Lucky was an abusive asshole. Also had him thinking she was having an affair with Patrick-who was happily involved with Robin (don’t think they had married yet). And I say this as someone who loved Jaysus and Elizabeth-the FIRST time, and who didn’t care for Vaughn as Lucky. For me, Jonathan Jackson is Lucky.

And frankly, as for Laura Wright, she’s never had chemistry with anyone except Ingo. Yeah, yeah, chemistry is subjective, but I remember that *UGH* kiss between Jason and the SHEBEAST when they decided to get married-it was so awkward and both Laura and Burton looked UNCOMFORTABLE. ZERO chemistry.

With the way Jason was grunting and groaning with pain, I also hope he tumbles down the stairs at Jagger’s feet. We all know he’s the savior, but let me enjoy my fantasy for a bit, please? Because I know the beast is going to be even MORE insufferable now that Jaysus is back.

But I did love the callback to Lucky and Sly from Laura. Like @jsbt, I was shocked a positive mention of Lucky and a Sly mention made it through.

[ffwbe]

I don’t think LW and SBu had an ounce of chemistry in 2021 and part of the reason they got the hard sell with dialogue was because their chemistry was so painfully bad. I don’t think that’s going to change. What’s worse is the actors know that they were unpopular. LW was on SBu’s podcast last year where SBu joked about their pairing only having 2 fans and LW gave a laundry list of excuses as to why she thinks fans didn’t like them together. 

[jsbt]

25 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

And frankly, as for Laura Wright, she’s never had chemistry with anyone except Ingo.

I don't know that they have any romantic chemistry either. I do think they have chemistry as close friends and that they did very well the other day, Laura always works hard but Steve seemed invested. Again, I thought Friday was quite solid overall and everyone onscreen did well but I could not help but wonder how various good scenes would've played had it been Lexi at Dante's bedside, or SJB with Steve. (Which is highly unlikely to ever happen again, unless PM either has a truly unprecedented level of control or LW also manages to hit someone on the Pasadena freeway.)

[Ambrosefolly]

2 hours ago, lilabennet said:

Lucky is the child of an addict.  His addiction was 100% believable and in character.

It is amazing to me how the narrative of the show is as effective as propaganda.  Lucky was a drug addict who cheated on Elizabeth and everyone who should have been her support system was somehow on his side.  They used the drug addiction to justify his actions and fans are still doing the same decades later.  In real life if a single mother was married to a drug addict, then the drug addiction ALONE would be enough for her friends and family to urge her to leave him.  Not here.  Instead Emily, Nikolas, and even her own grandmother guilted her into propping him up and forgiving him for having an affair because it was somehow the fault of the drugs and not Lucky.  It is still as sickening now as it was then.

I watched the first round of Lucky the addict storyline, and no one was on Lucky's side, maybe Nicholas, once, speaking out in Lucky's favor, but it was only about letting Lucky think he was Jake's father, and not really about Liz taking up with Jason.  Luke even told Liz that Lucky was a "loser," his word. No scenes of Luke dragging Lucky to woods to force a detox, no intervention with Nik, Lulu, Leslie and Bobbie, no one in the family (like his grandmother Leslie, a doctor) trying to take him to rehab. Lucky develops a life threatening drug addiction and no one in his family seems to be bothered, despite how loyal of a family member he was to them.

I can't and won't speak for other Lucky fans, but one of the reasons I never turned against Lucky in the storyline because I knew that Lucky was being dragged through the mud in order to prop up Jason. Unlike JJ, GV's Lucky was never any use for Guza, so he had no problem throwing him under the bus, so Jason can be blameless. Lucky cheated on Liz, and for some reason Ric and Sam slept together (killing one of Alexis' better pairings in the process), freeing Jason and Liz to conceive Jake. When the show decided to go full steam on Liason, they had Sam and Lucky sleeping together first. That slightly backfired as Sam and Lucky pairing actually started to gain some traction, and Guza can't have anyone outshine Jason. 

This was Guza's MO. He did this before when Jason became the interloper in AJ and Courtney's relationship. They used Billy Warlock's (the AJ at the time) taking a leave to film the Baywatch reunion, to explain who was stalking Courtney in order to have Jason be the hero and have Courtney leave AJ and sleep with Jason right away. 

I do feel bad to a certain extent for Rebecca Herbst. Her charm and talent has kept her on the canvas, despite repeated attempts to ruin Liz and write her out. She didn't get much crap with the baby Jake paternity saga only because she was paired with Jason at the time, but both Carly and Monica blamed for keeping her son's paternity, never blaming Jason. 

1 hour ago, jsbt said:

I don't remember Lucky ever being physically abusive. He was obviously not a perfect spouse but neither was she.

I think there was a scene with Liz and Lucky getting into a physical fight. He never hit her and she threw the wedding ring at him (I believe) but he was rough with her.  I think it was when Liz was leaving Lucky and moving out of the apartment, and Lucky was trying to get her the stay. And let me make this clear, even though I hated Liz keeping quiet about her own affair with Jason, even then, I believed that Liz had every right to leave and take Cam with her in order to keep them in a more stable environment. 

1 hour ago, lala2 said:

As a GV/Lucky and Franco fan, Liz had stable, loving relationships with them both, especially Franco. Friz was her best adult pairing to date. The chemistry between the actors was amazing! Franco loved her and only her, and he loved all her kids too! Franco did nothing but worship Liz. He was wonderful to her. 

Talk about slated writing. They had to ignore what a vindictive, petty bitch he could be (post tumor) and pair them, even though Liz is no saint herself. I absolutely hated Friz, and don't think that the chem between the RHs was that great. The only saving grace is that he wasn't Jason. 

3 hours ago, ffwbe said:

FWIW, I don’t think he treated her well all  of the time. The way they started them up was disgusting. Franco was essentially stalking her and saying how he should date her because all of her kid’s were fatherless and she was the town parish too whether she thought she was or not so they were the same. He negged her quite a bit and made her believe she didn’t deserve anyone better.

I don’t think he was ever the ideal partner- they just used her kids to sell that pairing. All of them had their moments where they were closer to Franco or could only open up to him and ignored the kids’ relationships with their mother. The running theme was that they were all so desperate for a male figure and no way could single mom Liz be enough for her group of boy children. Notice how they’ve completely gone back on that after he died. There were a ton of red flag moments when they were actually together as well.

Liz when she was with Franco was her most annoying time for me. She was insufferable about how everyone thought he was trash and would get in people’s faces about it screaming how he was a good person.  

Exactly my thoughts. The show never has Liz deal with her trauma. Friz earned my ire when they hand the rape revisit storyline to Roger Hogworth (yes, I know I misspell it), even though the show had trashed Liz's character in the "Jake is Jason" storyline. 

As someone that only volunteers with a hospital's grief group, I was disgusted with Franco using his position as Jake's art therapist to get close to and aggressively stalk Liz. You aren't even allowed to be social media friends, even if you are a lowly volunteer with in a hospital. 

Edited March 9 by Ambrosefolly

[jsbt]

I'll say again that they should've done a David Hamilton riff on the suburban murder mystery with Franco - have one of the boys kill Franco when he breaks bad again and the rest cover it up. Instead this serial killer is canonized in their hearts and minds in death, and by contrast when it comes to Lucky I have to go back and watch old clips of how loving GV and Jonathan were with little Cam, etc.

In his day, for all his ups and downs Lucky was a devoted and very present father. Now that's largely been eradicated (while St. Franco is elevated) because they didn't want to recast again, which I happened to agree with for a long time. But it was mishandled onscreen and now Lucky is just another tortured deadbeat dad, and you have to deal with it eventually. GV is a good guy who works hard but the instant Jonathan was back onscreen there was no comparison. He could've run the show for another decade or two had they not run him off by alienating him with bad story. These days, I am open to a very good recast again if possible, and if there is no way to get Jonathan to agree to some sort of sweetheart deal. There is no reason he could not have the same kind of open-ended situation Frank seemingly reserves only for JPS and the intolerably corny Valentin, even though Stuart's last daytime heat surge was somewhere around 1992. Anyway.

[Ambrosefolly]

One thing I hated in general with a lot of storytelling is how quickly they are willing to make someone a deadbeat dad, and I especially hated it they did it with Lucky. I think having the boys (including Cam) visit Lucky offscreen would be a good way to explain their absence and have Lucky be present in their lives. 

Edited March 10 by Ambrosefolly

[dubbel zout]

I don't understand the creative choice for making Lucky a deadbeat dad. There was no story to be told—Lucky was just off dealing with "the darkness" or whatever crap they tried to sell us. He's offscreen; they didn't have to write a story for him, just let us know he and the boys regularly talked and saw one another. That's not hard at all.

Drew is more of a deadbeat dad than Lucky ever was, and he's onscreen! With Jason back we'll probably get a few weeks of him attempting to parent his kids, but his return story will soon take precedence, and he and Drew will be neck-and-neck for Worst Father Who Actually Lives in Port Charles. With Drew on his way out, the crown will be Jason's in no time.

[ffwbe]

31 minutes ago, Ambrosefolly said:

I can't and won't speak for other Lucky fans, but one of the reasons I never turned against Lucky in the storyline because I knew that Lucky was being dragged through the mud in order to prop up Jason. Unlike JJ, GV's Lucky was never any use for Guza, so he had no problem throwing him under the bus, so Jason can be blameless. Lucky cheated on Liz, and for some reason Ric and Sam slept together (killing one of Alexis' better pairings in the process), freeing Jason and Liz to conceive Jake.

I have so much disdain for that summer of 2006 and yes, multiple characters were thrown under the bus so Jason could be treated like the victim. The way they acted like Jason was being cheated on by Sam when he had already dumped her and had been having an emotional affair with Liz for months leading up to that was something. Also, downplaying Alexis’ story when she was the one who did get cheated on and betrayed by her husband and daughter right after finding out she had cancer. I don’t think Alexis/Ric should have been part of they SL at all but Guza hated both of them so he was being petty and Jason could never be in the wrong so he couldn’t just break up with Sam to hook up with Liz. 

28 minutes ago, Ambrosefolly said:

One thing I hated in general with a lot of storytelling is how quickly they are willing to make someone a deadbeat dad, and I especially hated it they did it with Lucky.

They pick and choose when they want to do that. Notice how Jax was never written as a deadbeat and Joss says she was regularly visiting him in Australia. The kids are barely on so no reason that they can’t occasionally mention them being off visiting Lucky. Heck there were times where Aiden was said to be off at some school trip to explain his absence in scenes he should be in. 

[Daisy]

3 hours ago, ffwbe said:

FWIW, I don’t think he treated her well all  of the time. The way they started them up was disgusting. Franco was essentially stalking her and saying how he should date her because all of her kid’s were fatherless and she was the town parish too whether she thought she was or not so they were the same. He negged her quite a bit and made her believe she didn’t deserve anyone better.

that's fair. (I wasn't watching, that's why i was legitimately curious). that sounds very scuzzy how they got together. I just watched basically around the time he died (I didn't even realize it was the same "Franco" Character i thought they were just reusing the name)

 

2 hours ago, lilabennet said:

 Lucky was a drug addict who cheated on Elizabeth and everyone who should have been her support system was somehow on his side.  They used the drug addiction to justify his actions and fans are still doing the same decades later. 

 I... honestly don't remember it like that. Lucky hurt his back, got addicted to drugs, and Maxie, who was also spiralling after the death of Jesse and fixated on him and exploited the situation with her job at the hospital to get him drugs and she wanted sex not money. I don't remember anyone really being team Lucky when he was in the throes of his addiction. (but again that one was a VERY long time ago and since it's really not on youtube i can't double check things). 

when Lucky found out that Elizabeth was pregnant, he quickly sobered up and tried extremely hard to rectify the damage he did as an addict. I remember him being extremely mad and hurt when he found out Jake wasn't his (at the black and white ball), and again I remember him being pissed off when he found out when she was screwing Nikolas basically from the day Lucky proposed to her. but I don't remember him when he was sober (which was from when he went to AA when he realised he was going to be a father) to when he found out Liz cheated on him - a good heck of a lot of years to be what you said. 

Liz did have every right to not be around Lucky or allow Cam near Lucky when he was an addict. but I am sorry even if I hated Lucky, I'm not going to say that it's propoganda to defend his actions. He was an addict. he did horrible things. he wouldn't have done said horrible things if he was sober. proof being how he was before said addiction and post addiction. (and as people stated how Guza trashed poor GV's lucky). but each their own on that one. like i said i was really just wanting some clarification in case there was stuff i misssed while i wasn't watching

[jsbt]

I mean, in fairness Drew was also locked up in a gulag for quite some time lol. Before his supervillain imprisonment hiatus I remember BM's Drew being a very attentive and loving parent to Jake in particular, and the show tried and mostly failed to try to paint Steve in the same light with Hudson West to compete because Steve's latter-day Jason is just not that affectionate or able to connect. And I do think they've sold CM's Drew trying to be there for Scout, before this recent prep school debacle and despite the fact that I a) can't stand him and b) often forget she exists.

Lucky's old brainwashing trauma being the true reason for his staying away was another plot thread Carlivati left hanging out there in 2015 when he got fired. In his world there was always a later time to deal with something big. Saying he Skyped with the boys a lot was not enough, they should've just baked in offscreen visits/shared custody. Or dealt with Lucky's trauma long before now. But here we are.

[Bringonthedrama]

4 hours ago, Ambrosefolly said:

Talk about slated writing. They had to ignore what a vindictive, petty bitch he could be (post tumor) and pair them, even though Liz is no saint herself. I absolutely hated Friz, and don't think that the chem between the RHs was that great. The only saving grace is that he wasn't Jason. 

I was disgusted with Franco using his position as Jake's art therapist to get close to and aggressively stalk Liz. 

This is exactly how I saw this "couple" as well. The show trying to sell Franco and Liz as a great love story was gross. It was never a healthy situation. I remember a scene at the hospital which pretty well summarized Franco and the show's perspective on their relationship. Elizabeth said she needed time to consider whether to continue in the relationship. Franco grabbed her and held onto her, saying "I need you; you make me better!" Elizabeth snapped back, "It's not my job to make you better!" 

From what I've seen over the years, Finn is the most stable, gentle loving and equal partner she's had - not using her as a life raft amidst addiction or for redemption and has no connection to, history with or interest in Sonny and Jason. He has history with addiction but has maintained sobriety on his own. They understand each other's work as medical professionals and support one another as parents. 

I hope Jake continues to get along well with Finn and puts Jason on blast for letting him think he was dead the last two years when Jason is well aware of the trauma and pain Jake has been through in his young life. Jason deserves the wrath of both sons, actually, for making protection of Sonny his #1 priority.

[driver18]

27 minutes ago, Bringonthedrama said:

From what I've seen over the years, Finn is the most stable, gentle loving and equal partner she's had - not using her as a life raft amidst addiction or for redemption and has no connection to, history with or interest in Sonny and Jason. He has history with addiction but has maintained sobriety on his own. They understand each other's work as medical professionals and support one another as parents. 

Exactly, re: Finn and Elizabeth. And they may not be popular here, but they do have a fanbase. Unfortunately, it's fairly clear that the soon to be gone HW had no clue nor did they care how to write for them. Here's hoping the new regime does better. RH and ME are both charismatic, great actors who work well together and can generate chemistry, as the beginning of their story showed. They've just been handed crap doled out in horribly paced increments ever since.

Edited March 10 by driver18

[Winston Wolfe]

7 hours ago, lilabennet said:

Lucky was a drug addict who cheated on Elizabeth and everyone who should have been her support system was somehow on his side. 

I had a question re: Lucky and Maxie, but Daisy answered it already, mostly. But it wasn't Kirsten Storms' version of Maxie that got fixes for Lucky, was it?

Edited March 10 by Winston Wolfe

[GHScorpiosRule]

12 minutes ago, Winston Wolfe said:

I had a question re: Lucky and Maxie, but Daisy answered it already, mostly. But it wasn't Kirsten Storms' version of Maxie that got fixes for Lucky, was it?

Yes it was.

[Daisy]

49 minutes ago, Winston Wolfe said:

I had a question re: Lucky and Maxie, but Daisy answered it already, mostly. But it wasn't Kirsten Storms' version of Maxie that got fixes for Lucky, was it?

It was. she was a candy striper with Georgie at the time

[dubbel zout]

15 hours ago, jsbt said:

despite the fact that I a) can't stand [Drew] and b) often forget [Scout] exists.

I'd argue that Drew forgets Scout exists until someone reminds him, but I let my dislike of Drew color everything he does.

[ffwbe]

7 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

I'd argue that Drew forgets Scout exists until someone reminds him, but I let my dislike of Drew color everything he does.

I don’t think you are because the show goes back and forth on it. When Drew decided to take the fall for Carly, he pretty much told Sam it wouldn’t be a big deal because he hardly sees Scout and she wouldn't miss him. Also despite all the bellyaching about missing time with Scout because of evil Nina, he volunteered to take that ELQ trip to Australia in place of Michael because it was more important for Michael to spend the holiday with his kids. 

[YaddaYadda]

49 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

I'd argue that Drew forgets Scout exists until someone reminds him, but I let my dislike of Drew color everything he does.

Drew forgets about Scout until he needs to blame Nina for keeping them apart.

[Winston Wolfe]

20 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

And frankly, as for Laura Wright, she’s never had chemistry with anyone except Ingo.

They were one of GH's most attractive couples, in a "Master Race" kind of way (TM Jill Kendall from Mom).

[Daisy]

3 hours ago, Winston Wolfe said:

They were one of GH's most attractive couples, in a "Master Race" kind of way (TM Jill Kendall from Mom).

honestly that was my favourite Carly pairing because it honestly felt like she grew up, she realised that she didn't want to be a mob moll, and then Michael got shot and you thought it was gonna ice it solid but nope. carly couldn't quit them

[ffwbe]

54 minutes ago, Daisy said:

honestly that was my favourite Carly pairing because it honestly felt like she grew up, she realised that she didn't want to be a mob moll, and then Michael got shot and you thought it was gonna ice it solid but nope. carly couldn't quit them

Idk, I never really saw it that way because Jax and Carly fought so much about Jason and the danger he could bring to their lives. Especially during that era when Sonny was out of the mob and Jason was the head. That was what ended them more so than Sonny because the mob danger was always a nonfactor for her until she was looking for someone to blame for her crappy decisions. Sonny and Carly weren’t together at that point because Sonny didn’t want to be. He was the one who ended things