S04.E08: Sorry

[nixgirl28]

6 minutes ago, nixgirl28 said:

She's 14. She can't drive, doesn't have a job, they determine when she leaves the house and with whom. They are her parents they absolutely can keep her from seeing him. My parents certainly did in high school

Also, I'm not a fan of the "kids are going to do it anyway, might as well condone it" mentality that's so popular.

I found the scenes with teen Randall and Rebecca hard to watch. It just seemed weird like Randall is taking the role of spouse/partner for Rebecca, in an emotional sense. It just didn't feel right. Rebecca did kind of bring that up, but it seems nothing really changed. She needs a therapist or friend to fill an emotional role for her, not her son.

[debraran]

1 hour ago, Lisa418722 said:

I didn't know anything about this song, so thank you for sharing that.

As far as Rebecca's potential dementia/Alzheimer's diagnosis.  Almost ten years ago my dad started showing symptoms. He would forget things - he forgot his sister's birthday which he NEVER forgot.  And other little things.  My mom suggested he go to the doctor for an exam and he refused.  I'm sure part of it was being scared of being diagnosed with Alzheimer's.   My mom called a little later and said my dad had had a stroke.  He lived and seemed to be doing a little better, but he wasn't "my dad" any longer.  Then about 3.5 months later he was having problems and the occupational therapist suggested he get in to see a doctor. They did a MRI that day and found out he actually had glioblastoma  (yeah, the same cancer that Ted Kennedy, Beau Biden, and John McCain had).  The doctor's didn't realize it was cancer a few months earlier because of all the bleeding in his brain.  So while I think Rebecca's storyline is going to be more dementia/Alzheimer's, I'm still not looking forward to it.  But I can also understand her not wanting to see a doctor.

That was very sad about your dad. So sorry you had to go through that along with your family.

I heard rumors about a brain tumor with Rebecca, they looked years ago, she had an MRI. I don't see TIU ever doing anything without a reason. Strokes, slow growing tumor, something that isn't common place which is why I think Mandy originally said, Good guesses but No.   Time will tell what they do, but as long as it's believable, they should do it well.

When they had that movie about a doctor who had early alzheimers , "Still Alice" it upset a lot of viewers. They would take the tests with her and many times fail. Doctor's got anxious calls. They tried to tell them memory loss is normal as you age, what she had got worse quickly and involved much more. Just being ADD would make remembering things on a memory test hard. That movie was very well acted, incredibly sad and one most will only watch once.

Edited November 16, 2019 by debraran

[Scarlett45]

I think Randall and Beth have agreed to let Deja see Malik not because they feel they “cannot stop her so might as well condone”, but because Deja is their daughter and they want her to be happy. Deja has been though a lot in her short life (and didn’t have the emotional stability Randall and Beth had growing up). When she told them their (she and Malik’s) day together was the best day of her life, that made an impact on them. This young girl has lost her grandmother (who was her primary caregiver), her Mom, been abused in foster care, been homeless etc etc. If she’s actually connecting to a peer and building peer relationships (in a healthy and safe way) I can see why Randall and Beth would want to facilitate that- this Deja is much better than the girl who went after Randall’s car with a baseball bat. 

[ByaNose]

I still want Deja to start college early & leave. I’m so over her. Buh-bye! 

[kili]

Quote

She's 14. She can't drive, doesn't have a job, they determine when she leaves the house and with whom. 

She goes to the same school as Malik, so unless they change that, she will be able to meet with Malik.

By the time they get to teenagers, you can't force control. The more you tighten your grip, the more they slip through your fingers. Teenagers quickly start realizing that there is only so much you can do to stop them from doing something. That's why communication, flexibility and reasonable restrictions are the name of the game.

I knew a girl in school whose parents only allowed her to wear skirts. No pants and certainly no jeans. Her friends bought her some jeans and she would switch into them first thing in the morning. 

Lots of teenagers have gone full Juliet when banned from seeing their Romeo. Left to their own devices, most high school romances have a lifespan of days or weeks. When banned, they can become all consuming. Beth and Randall have imposed restrictions so that they can at least keep Deja safe while keeping the communication channels open. 

Talk to somebody who has lost control of their child and they will tell you how little influence you have once a teenager has discovered they can defy you.

Edited November 16, 2019 by kili

[PRgal]

1 hour ago, ByaNose said:

I still want Deja to start college early & leave. I’m so over her. Buh-bye! 

She’s super-smart but not THAT smart.  The only way to “get rid” of her is if her school thinks a prep school with boarding would be a better challenge her.  

[sasha206]

I seriously hated Randall talking to the interviewer.  It's the typical "big gesture" unbelievable speeches that I can't imagine ever happening in real life with a teen.  Same thing with Malik and Deja.  I wish teens would be written realistically.

On the "software" I assumed it was a well-known type of software and her "I can type X per minute..." was intended to show how long she's been out of the workforce. 

On Toby, at his reaction to solid food seemed so over the top excited.  And really, hiding the fact that your kid ate his first solid food from your husband who wasn't there?  It's not like taking the first steps and missing it.  It seemed a little extra to me.

And oh boy, Nicky pulled out a Pearson speech that saved his ass! 

Despite all my criticisms, the show does have me tuning in.

[sasha206]

1 hour ago, kili said:

She goes to the same school as Malik, so unless they change that, she will be able to meet with Malik.

By the time they get to teenagers, you can't force control. The more you tighten your grip, the more the slip through your fingers. Teenagers quickly start realizing that there is only so much you can do to stop them from doing something. That's why communication, flexibility and reasonable restrictions are the name of the game.

I knew a girl in school whose parents only allowed her to wear skirts. No pants and certainly no jeans. Her friends bought her some jeans and she would switch into them first thing in the morning. 

Lots of teenagers have gone full Juliet when banned from seeing their Romeo. Left to their own devices, most high school romances have a lifespan of days or weeks. When banned, they can become all consuming. Beth and Randall have imposed restrictions so that they can at least keep Deja safe while keeping the communication channels open. 

Talk to somebody who has lost control of their child and they will tell you how little influence you have once a teenager has discovered they can defy you. .

Oh yeah...

My daughter had a boyfriend at 14.  I supervised the date.  Her friend wasn't allowed to date.  So instead, she snuck out of the house.  And sucked face during school.  

Banning kids from dating each other works only if you lock them in the house, take away all forms of communication.  They'll find ways to get together.  And it will feel more exciting to them because now it's secret.  It's dangerous.  They have the bond of hating their parents for forbidding them.  

So having some controls on their dating but allowing it to happen with restrictions is usually the quickest way to a breakup.  

[PRgal]

2 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

When no on is home, how are they going to stop her from leaving? Deja doesn't need to know how to drive.  She can just go off with her boyfriend.

I never said that.   All I said was that there is nothing they can do to stop her from seeing him.  Randall and Beth can say no all they want, but unless they physically restrain her when they are not around, nothing is going to stop her from leaving.

If Beth and/or Randall spank Deja or use any form of physical punishment or threaten her in anyway, Randall can kiss his political career goodbye, and Beth can kiss her business goodbye.

Parents aren't always right.  Parents don't always do what is in the best interests of their kids.  They often do what is more convenient for themselves, and their children suffer as a result.

Malik is 16.  What’s the driving age in Pennsylvania and do they have graduated licensing?  If they don’t, he could very well get car access somehow and drive her.  

[ams1001]

Or they could take the bus...

[Violetgoblin6]

PA driving age is 16. Not sure about permit. In my day (decades ago) it was 15. 

[Violetgoblin6]

On 11/15/2019 at 9:11 PM, Biggie B said:

I detest bananas - the texture, the smell, the sound when someone's eating them makes me gag. When my husband or son eats one, I have to leave the room. Oddly, when I was pregnant, I craved them, and ate two a day for months. I don't know how I did that. Twenty three years later, it grosses me out to remember that.

When my parents were alive and came to visit, sometimes I had the bed ready and sometimes not. I never realized there was some sort of rule/etiquette behind the timing of having a room ready. I also never considered my parents 'guests' and they didn't either. But last year, I had a dear friend come stay with me from out of town, and while my house was cleaned and gussied up from top to bottom in anticipation of her arrival, I didn't make the bed in advance - mainly because it's a sofa bed in the room she stayed in, and if I'd opened it up and made the bed before her arrival, we wouldn't have been able to get her suitcase into the room. I myself made the bed once she was settled in to the room. Had no idea I'd committed such a faux pas.

My father had dementia for 20 years until he died. My mother was his primary caregiver until she died and due to his severe physical disabilities on top of the dementia, my sister and I found an amazing nursing home for him, as he truly needed 24/7 care we couldn't provide by that point (he was catheterized, among other things). My stepfather-in-law had Pick's disease, which is under the Alzheimer's umbrella, and that was pretty awful as well - that inevitable decline is brutal for everyone involved. As it does seem that Rebecca is headed down that road, it will be unpleasant to watch but I bet a lot of it will be sanitized somewhat for the TV viewing audience. The reality of dementia is pretty bad. I'm sure many of us have horrific stories from having gone through it with loved ones - and I doubt the writers will "go there" too deeply with Rebecca. I could be wrong.

Yes! Since I was a baby I've despised bananas. 

I haven't had one in over 40 years and I can still conjure that taste, unfortunately. And they smell horrible, in my opinion. I leave the room too. 

Rudy from Survior died last week after 20 years of Alzheimers. So it makes sense that Rebecca could start showing signs now. Didn't Ronald Reagan have it while president in his second term? He lived until 2004. Although of course it may not even be Alzheimers or dementia, I'm thinking about the MRI she got in winter of 1998, right before Jack died. 

[debraran]

7 hours ago, Violetgoblin6 said:

Yes! Since I was a baby I've despised bananas. 

I haven't had one in over 40 years and I can still conjure that taste, unfortunately. And they smell horrible, in my opinion. I leave the room too. 

Rudy from Survior died last week after 20 years of Alzheimers. So it makes sense that Rebecca could start showing signs now. Didn't Ronald Reagan have it while president in his second term? He lived until 2004. Although of course it may not even be Alzheimers or dementia, I'm thinking about the MRI she got in winter of 1998, right before Jack died. 

A review of "The Car"  it seems she was concerned enough to get an MRI. That episode was so all over the place with flashbacks and Jack's death a lot was forgotten.

Part of review: "Some time in the mid-to-late ’90s, Rebecca has a cancer scare. She gets a brain MRI, but they have a few hours to kill before getting the results. Instead of sitting around worrying about a possible brain tumor, Jack tells Rebecca he’s taking her to a special spot, his favorite tree. They sit by the Tree and Jack says a lot of very Jack things about Rebecca living forever because how is the snow still going to fall if she’s not around to see it, which isn’t how science works but I will choose to believe it because it is so darn swoony. They get the news right there in that park that Rebecca is totally fine, and then Jack reveals why that tree is his favorite: It is the closest to a pay phone and he just made the whole thing up to calm Rebecca down. TYPICAL JACK. "

Edited November 17, 2019 by debraran

[kili]

Quote

A review of "The Car"  it seems she was concerned enough to get an MRI.

Her symptoms are that she is suffering from dizziness (all week). Could be a sign of an inner ear infection or something more serious, so the doctor orders an MRI. 

Now we can play the Internet Illness game and start googling symptoms. Dizziness (from "The Car"), loss of short term memory, inability  to focus (this episode) - Susac Syndrome (or something else because this is all unrelated and it was an inner ear infection).

Edited November 17, 2019 by kili

[Sake614]

On 11/13/2019 at 11:42 AM, TV Diva Queen said:

ping my phone all day long from my apple watch

Wait what? That’s a thing? How do I do that? I can’t tell you how many times I’ve misplaced my damn phone! Last time it was on mute so my only hope of finding it was just to keep searching the apartment!

[sasha206]

So how old is Kate's boyfriend supposed to me?  When first introduced it seemed as though he was a manager of the music store.   And he's calling her mom by her first name?  They are laying the "he's a douchebag" on a little too thick.  

[debraran]

54 minutes ago, kili said:

Her symptoms are that she is suffering from dizziness (all week). Could be a sign of an inner ear infection or something more serious, so the doctor orders an MRI. 

Now we can play the Internet Illness game and start googling symptoms. Dizziness (from "The Car"), loss of short term memory, inability  to focus (this episode) - Susac Syndrome (or something else because this is all unrelated and it was an inner ear infection).

That seemed a bit overkill. I had an ear infection (new to me) that would not go away, antibiotics, etc and finally a spray did it after weeks (or maybe it ran the course) I was dizzy too. I would have nixed an MRI though unless it seemed like something else was going on.

I just know on TV, they rarely introduce something for no reason. When asked a writer pretended to be surprised,  and coyly said "Oh I forgot about that, might be something, might not".

[ShadowFacts]

45 minutes ago, kili said:

Her symptoms are that she is suffering from dizziness (all week). Could be a sign of an inner ear infection or something more serious, so the doctor orders an MRI. 

Now we can play the Internet Illness game and start googling symptoms. Dizziness (from "The Car"), loss of short term memory, inability  to focus (this episode) - Susac Syndrome (or something else because this is all unrelated and it was an inner ear infection).

She also had an apparent episode of something akin to dizziness while in the waiting room when Kate was in labor, and Beth tried to make her eat something.  She zoned out in a way about the chairs, which was ambiguous, maybe odd cognition or maybe trying to distract herself.  In a car ride with Tess, she said she has to gobble OTC pain relievers, which I think she mentioned in relation to the harm of keeping secrets.  Could be relevant, could be arthritis.  I think showrunners enjoy making it a guessing game. 

[saber5055]

20 hours ago, sasha206 said:

On the "software" I assumed it was a well-known type of software and her "I can type X per minute..." was intended to show how long she's been out of the workforce. 

Has Rebecca ever been IN the workforce? I don't remember her ever going to a job, but I don't retain a lot of this show once the current episode is over.

Wouldn't the position have a job description that Randall, if not Rebecca, would have read before going to an interview? One that said knowledge of Windows computers is a plus, and being able to use Microsoft Office is required. Something like that. I've never just walked into an interview with no qualifications resume, just a "Here I am, hire me."

So did Randall teach Rebecca all of the office software before Monday? Inquiring minds want to know.

Rebecca was all obsessive about writing down every word the doctors said about how to care for premie Baby Jack. That's the same way she acted with taking so many pics of Randall's office. But then she had ton loads of phone pics to show Randall of Baby Jack too. How is any of that different than what everyone in the world does these days, take thousands of phone photos/selfies. I misplace my phone all the time, especially in the summer when I'm not wearing a pocket to put it in when I go somewhere.

I don't see Randall's "big deal," except that he's Perfect Randall and HE would never act that way. Maybe he needs to give Miguel a call if he wants the scoopage on Mom.

3 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

I think showrunners enjoy making it a guessing game. 

THIS! Yes. The laugh will be on us when all is revealed. Or not revealed.

16 hours ago, ams1001 said:

Or they could take the bus...

Or, heaven forbid, get some exercise meeting via bicycles in that park!

[Ohmo]

On 11/14/2019 at 10:02 AM, Ohiopirate02 said:

I will admit that I believe Randall is still silently fuming to himself that Rebecca should never have moved.  He is upset and hurt that she moved to be near her new grandson.  His house is not the center of the Pearson universe anymore.  I can see this getting pretty ugly going forward.  

I think subconsciously (or maybe even consciously), Randall is upset and hurt that Rebecca moved to be near not only her new grandson but also her biological grandchild.

And because I'm reading the rest of this episode thread, I'd like to say that I love bananas.  Especially when dipped in chocolate, but I'm also a big fan of banana bread and banana pudding.

[Diana Berry]

I had a good cry.

[kili]

Quote

I think subconsciously (or maybe even consciously), Randall is upset and hurt that Rebecca moved to be near not only her new grandson but also her biological grandchild.

I hope they aren't going there. Rebecca and Jack bent themselves into pretzels to re-assure Randall that he was wanted and loved. The acquiesced to his every need and pretty much every request that he had. They dropped everything when he had a crisis-of-adoption and spared no expense of time or money. If anybody got short shrift, it was their biological children.

If Randall is upset that Rebecca finally devoted some time to Kate or Kevin as a slight to himself, he seriously needs to a wake up call.  If he thinks that Rebecca helping out Kate with her disabled baby is a rejection of him as an adoptee - his level of entitlement knows no bounds. I hope Beth, Deja and/or Annie set him straight.

Seriously, what more could Jack or Rebecca have done to let Randall know that he is as loved and valued at least as highly as Kevin and Kate?

[ams1001]

10 hours ago, sasha206 said:

So how old is Kate's boyfriend supposed to me?  When first introduced it seemed as though he was a manager of the music store.   And he's calling her mom by her first name?  They are laying the "he's a douchebag" on a little too thick.  

I think in the first episode he appeared in someone said he's 23.

6 hours ago, Ohmo said:

And because I'm reading the rest of this episode thread, I'd like to say that I love bananas.  Especially when dipped in chocolate, but I'm also a big fan of banana bread and banana pudding.

Banana bread with dark chocolate chips. 😋

[kili]

Quote

I think in the first episode he appeared in someone said he's 23.

In the Storybook Love episode, during the kitchen argument, Kevin and Randall declare that Marc is too old for Kate and she retorts that he is only 23. She goes on to note that their dad was 6 years older than their mom.  Of course, the 6 years between 17 and 23 are more meaningful than the 6 between 22 and 28.

[ams1001]

6 minutes ago, kili said:

In the Storybook Love episode, during the kitchen argument, Kevin and Randall declare that Marc is too old for Kate and she retorts that he is only 23. She goes on to note that their dad was 6 years older than their mom.  Of course, the 6 years between 17 and 23 are more meaningful than the 6 between 22 and 28.

Heh, yeah my parents were 25 and 30 when they got married. I'm sure they would not have been happy if I was dating someone five years older when I was barely out of high school.

[Mars477]

So, color me disappointed if that’s going to be all she wrote for Cassidy’s character.  I thought the character was great and complements Kevin well platonically or romantically, so it would be a huge waste if all she does is kinda sorta facilitate Kevin getting to know Nicky better.  Hopefully she can show up in a larger role in the latter half of the season that isn’t an idiotic “Upper 30s to 40s career woman who was deployed in a combat zone up until a few months ago apparently wasn’t on long term birth control” plot.

I really couldn’t care less about Deja and Malik.  By any reasonable metric, but especially the one where Deja’s father is a politician, allowing their relationship to continue is a Terrible Idea.

It feels like we’ve been going one step forward, two steps back with Kate and Toby all season long, and this episode was no different.  Feels like we’ve been going around the “Conflict ensues, Kate acts like a dick, realizes she’s being a dick and apologizes” cycle a few times now and it’s frustrating that she doesn’t seem to be learning or growing any.

Randall was way overstepping his boundaries with Rebecca in the job interview plot.  And while not all dementia is Alzheimer’s, I’m pretty sure that’s all we could expect Hollywood writers to have heard of.

[sasha206]

2 hours ago, ams1001 said:

I think in the first episode he appeared in someone said he's 23.

Banana bread with dark chocolate chips. 😋

How old is Kate supposed to be at this time?  18?

[debraran]

4 hours ago, sasha206 said:

How old is Kate supposed to be at this time?  18?

If Randall is in college, I'd say so. I wish everything in her life wasn't so depressing. As a child, she had happy times, but they made it seem like she was indulged too much and Daddy was her saint while Mom had to do the hard things. She had a bad first boyfriend it seems or just not good for her, she later is shown being a waitress and dating a married guy and had put on about 100 pounds since teens. Everything is her weight and blamed for her woes and now when I see her sitting in front of the old house eating on the fire's aniv, I see someone who doesn't just miss her dad but is stuck in a time she last felt good.

So sad she never got help of any kind. I realize this was the script, Chrissy is heavy so they wrote it this way on purpose but as a viewer, it's like watching a run-a-way train and by 40+ the "woe is me" wears very thin. I've gotten to dislike her character and I don't think that was the plan. I hope little Jack brings more empathy but her interactions with Toby don't.

Edited November 18, 2019 by debraran

[ElectricBoogaloo]

On 11/16/2019 at 5:18 AM, Scarlett45 said:

I thought the boyfriend was super rude to abbreviate Randall’s name without permission AND belittle Kate’s movie choice. It’s fine not to want to see Practical Magic (And suggest something they both like), it’s not fine to demean your girlfriend for her desire to see it. There could be situations where the “12yrs old girl” line could be taken as a funny joke, but this wasn’t one of them. Kate was not laughing (genuinely). Alarm bells for me.

Abbreviating someone's name without permission is a pet peeve of mine because people used to do it to me. My sisters and parents have a special nickname for me and they are the only ones I tolerated it from, but there were a few random people who heard them use that name and started calling me by the same nickname. I was like uh, you are not my immediate family so do not call me that! It's just really presumptuous to use a nickname with someone who you don't know well. My rule of thumb is that I call someone by whatever name they give me when I meet them. If you say your name is John, I'm not going to call you Johnny.

On 11/16/2019 at 11:11 AM, kili said:

She goes to the same school as Malik, so unless they change that, she will be able to meet with Malik.

By the time they get to teenagers, you can't force control. The more you tighten your grip, the more they slip through your fingers. Teenagers quickly start realizing that there is only so much you can do to stop them from doing something. That's why communication, flexibility and reasonable restrictions are the name of the game.

I knew a girl in school whose parents only allowed her to wear skirts. No pants and certainly no jeans. Her friends bought her some jeans and she would switch into them first thing in the morning. 

Lots of teenagers have gone full Juliet when banned from seeing their Romeo. Left to their own devices, most high school romances have a lifespan of days or weeks. When banned, they can become all consuming. Beth and Randall have imposed restrictions so that they can at least keep Deja safe while keeping the communication channels open. 

Talk to somebody who has lost control of their child and they will tell you how little influence you have once a teenager has discovered they can defy you.

On 11/16/2019 at 12:55 PM, sasha206 said:

Oh yeah...

My daughter had a boyfriend at 14.  I supervised the date.  Her friend wasn't allowed to date.  So instead, she snuck out of the house.  And sucked face during school.  

Banning kids from dating each other works only if you lock them in the house, take away all forms of communication.  They'll find ways to get together.  And it will feel more exciting to them because now it's secret.  It's dangerous.  They have the bond of hating their parents for forbidding them.  

So having some controls on their dating but allowing it to happen with restrictions is usually the quickest way to a breakup.  

ITA - I had strict parents and whenever they told me I couldn't do something, I found a way around it. In middle school, my mom told me that I was too young to wear makeup. I bought a $1 Wet & Wild eyeliner and a $1 Wet & Wild lip gloss. I'd put makeup on when I got to school and then take it off before I went home. I had a locker at school so my mom never even knew I had it.

They never said I couldn't date but they were very strict about when and where I could go. I just said fine and then snuck out of the house on Saturday nights. Whenever I had a boyfriend, I was able to see them all day at school. I had extracurricular activities so when I dated someone who was in one of my groups, I had sanctioned time after school to spend time with them without my parents knowing.

My parents were pretty lax about what I wore but the ONE time that my mom told me I couldn't wear something (it was my sister's skirt and in retrospect I have no idea why it was okay for my sister to wear it but my mom said I couldn't wear it - we wore the same size so I don't think it fit me any differently than it fit her), I just said okay, went upstairs and put on a different skirt, put the verboten skirt in my bag, left the house, and changed back into the forbidden skirt.

It's pointless trying to squeeze your kids into doing whatever it is you do or don't want them to do. If they really want to do it, they'll find a way no matter how many rules and roadblocks you try to put in front of them. You really need to pick your battles carefully if you don't want to lose your control (and their respect).

5 hours ago, sasha206 said:

How old is Kate supposed to be at this time?  18?

It's Randall's freshman year in college (fall 1998) and the kids were born on August 31, so Kate was 18 when she met Marc.

[TV Diva Queen]

22 hours ago, Sake614 said:

Wait what? That’s a thing? How do I do that? I can’t tell you how many times I’ve misplaced my damn phone! Last time it was on mute so my only hope of finding it was just to keep searching the apartment!

swipe up on the watch, and hit the button that's looking like a phone (rectangle with "air waves").  your phone makes a ding ding noise.  

[Ohiopirate02]

18 hours ago, Ohmo said:

I think subconsciously (or maybe even consciously), Randall is upset and hurt that Rebecca moved to be near not only her new grandson but also her biological grandchild.

I don't think Randall's hurt goes that far.  Randall is used to being Rebecca's favorite.  The family dynamic up until that day in the hospital was Randall's house was the center of the Pearson family.  If Kate and Kevin wanted to see their mom, they were the ones who had to travel.  Randall apparently had 20 years of Rebecca living close enough to him that they saw each other on a weekly (if not more) basis.  Randall was taking Rebecca on his dates with Beth.  They are very codependent to the point where Randall immediately assumed that Rebecca (and Miguel) would automatically move to be closer to his family in Philly.  I can see him feeling blindsided by Rebecca (and Miguel)'s decision to move to California to be near the newest grandkid because Rebecca and Randall are that enmeshed.  

[sasha206]

4 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Abbreviating someone's name without permission is a pet peeve of mine because people used to do it to me. My sisters and parents have a special nickname for me and they are the only ones I tolerated it from, but there were a few random people who heard them use that name and started calling me by the same nickname. I was like uh, you are not my immediate family so do not call me that! It's just really presumptuous to use a nickname with someone who you don't know well. My rule of thumb is that I call someone by whatever name they give me when I meet them. If you say your name is John, I'm not going to call you Johnny.

ITA - I had strict parents and whenever they told me I couldn't do something, I found a way around it. In middle school, my mom told me that I was too young to wear makeup. I bought a $1 Wet & Wild eyeliner and a $1 Wet & Wild lip gloss. I'd put makeup on when I got to school and then take it off before I went home. I had a locker at school so my mom never even knew I had it.

They never said I couldn't date but they were very strict about when and where I could go. I just said fine and then snuck out of the house on Saturday nights. Whenever I had a boyfriend, I was able to see them all day at school. I had extracurricular activities so when I dated someone who was in one of my groups, I had sanctioned time after school to spend time with them without my parents knowing.

My parents were pretty lax about what I wore but the ONE time that my mom told me I couldn't wear something (it was my sister's skirt and in retrospect I have no idea why it was okay for my sister to wear it but my mom said I couldn't wear it - we wore the same size so I don't think it fit me any differently than it fit her), I just said okay, went upstairs and put on a different skirt, put the verboten skirt in my bag, left the house, and changed back into the forbidden skirt.

It's pointless trying to squeeze your kids into doing whatever it is you do or don't want them to do. If they really want to do it, they'll find a way no matter how many rules and roadblocks you try to put in front of them. You really need to pick your battles carefully if you don't want to lose your control (and their respect).

It's Randall's freshman year in college (fall 1998) and the kids were born on August 31, so Kate was 18 when she met Marc.

I think what confuses me is she looks to be about 16!  I looked up the actress who plays her and was shocked she is 22!

[RedbirdNelly]

On ‎11‎/‎13‎/‎2019 at 5:28 PM, Crs97 said:

Regarding bananas, second oldest always hated them.  Always.  

I didn't know my mom was posting on here (ha---second oldest who has always hated bananas).

Toby was being over the top on firsts but it was believable for him. Kate needed to just own up on the neighbor issue or let it go. It really is not a huge deal but to first time parents, it can be.

I chuckled at the "Beth in the pantry announcement" part. That was funny to me.

I teared up at the end with Kevin/Nicky/Jack. Very touching. Glad Kevin had that moment.

I get into this show enough that I'm all excited about it being the Thanksgiving episode. As if it's a real event.

[Scarlett45]

6 hours ago, sasha206 said:

I think what confuses me is she looks to be about 16!  I looked up the actress who plays her and was shocked she is 22!

I don’t think most people change looks that’s much between 16-22yrs old unless you’ve been living a hard life (illness, lots of drinking/recreational drug use etc). Your face might thin a little but if you’re a woman with a naturally round face (no matter your weight) you’re going to look younger longer (typically). 

[Scarlett45]

8 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I don't think Randall's hurt goes that far.  Randall is used to being Rebecca's favorite.  The family dynamic up until that day in the hospital was Randall's house was the center of the Pearson family.  If Kate and Kevin wanted to see their mom, they were the ones who had to travel.  Randall apparently had 20 years of Rebecca living close enough to him that they saw each other on a weekly (if not more) basis.  Randall was taking Rebecca on his dates with Beth.  They are very codependent to the point where Randall immediately assumed that Rebecca (and Miguel) would automatically move to be closer to his family in Philly.  I can see him feeling blindsided by Rebecca (and Miguel)'s decision to move to California to be near the newest grandkid because Rebecca and Randall are that enmeshed.  

I think any adult child that loves their parent and spends time with them regularly would be sad that they were moving across the country. Not upset as in “you’re a bad parent now” but “someone I love has always been a short car ride away and now they are a plane ride away.” That’s human- now acting pissy and immature about it (which we haven’t seen Randall do this season), is being an immature baby who needs to not take it out on other people. 
 

I think it’s not that people don’t expect Randall to have feelings, it’s how he reacts to things as a 39 year old man people have a problem with. 

[ams1001]

1 hour ago, Scarlett45 said:

“someone I love has always been a short car ride away and now they are a plane ride away.”

Of course, in Randall World, it takes an hour to drive from basically NYC (it's 12 miles from Alpine to Manhattan) to Philly (it does not), and hopping a plane to LA is no big deal.

In other news, I don't think this has been mentioned: today I learned that Uncle Nicky directed Practical Magic. 

[bros402]

On 11/14/2019 at 1:41 PM, PepSinger said:

I find all of these comments regarding “entry-level” fascinating and amusing. I graduated college in 2013, and I “fondly” remember applying for job that were listed as “entry-level.” Silly me, I thought as long you showed an aptitude for learning the program/software and did notably well in college, you’d be considered for the position as it was “entry-level.” I cannot tell you how many times I was told no because I didn’t know a certain program or software. If knowing a program or software is necessary, then just say that; don’t list the position as “entry-level.” I was also amused by “entry-level” positions that listed you needed 2-5 years of relevant job experience. Surprised they didn’t also ask for the blood of 1000 virgins and a human sacrifice because that makes just as much sense.

Also, I agree that a son going in to advocate for his mom like that would not go over well in the real world. Totally unrealistic.

I will always laugh at the one screenshot of that programming position for a junior position and it requires 5-10 years of experiencing in whatever programming language... when the programming language was created 3 years before

[debraran]

Randall's speech made me a little uncomfortable. True his Mom had potential but there had to be other jobs without the software portion. I'm a softy but I found myself thinking what does your mom having triplets and adopting you have to do with doing this job? She could be the most charitable and humanitarian person, but not right for this job.

I would like to see a little of that on this show, volunteering or thinking of others. You don't need a lot of money, but maybe if Kate was involved in activities that helped others when she was young, all of them, they'd think beyond themselves for just a few minutes. Randall was sensitive to adoption because he was but sometimes we just get too wrapped up in ourselves.

[SunnyBeBe]

On 11/14/2019 at 11:24 AM, kili said:

I don't think Toby was discouraging Kate from feeding the child - he was discouraging Kate from freaking out about Jack not eating solids. She was fretting that he was late to start and milestones and Toby could see her spiralling.  Toby has to expend a great deal of energy keeping Kate on an even keel.

I was relieved when the next door neighbour needed help because it calmed down Kate. Kate had something to do and something else to focus on.  Hyper-focusing on Jack is not the best approach for Kate or Jack. Every kid is different and will hit some milestones early and some late. Some will like bananas and some will like avocados. My kid loved broccoli so much, I could use it as a bribe. You have to learn to roll with it with kids.

In his natural habitat, I think Toby would be a very Roll-With-It dad (who loved embarrassing his kids). I think half the reason he was overhyped about Jack eating was that he knew it was a HUGE deal for Kate to see Jack start eating and he knows she wants to celebrate firsts. Plus, Toby likes to celebrate.

I guess....it's just that watching two people who have struggled with obesity so focused on getting the baby to eat.....made me uncomfortable. 

[SunnyBeBe]

4 hours ago, debraran said:

Randall's speech made me a little uncomfortable. True his Mom had potential but there had to be other jobs without the software portion. I'm a softy but I found myself thinking what does your mom having triplets and adopting you have to do with doing this job? She could be the most charitable and humanitarian person, but not right for this job.

I would like to see a little of that on this show, volunteering or thinking of others. You don't need a lot of money, but maybe if Kate was involved in activities that helped others when she was young, all of them, they'd think beyond themselves for just a few minutes. Randall was sensitive to adoption because he was but sometimes we just get too wrapped up in ourselves.

What was the reason for Rebecca's mini meltdown where she is crying and telling Randall that she never imagined herself at that stage of her life taking an entry level position?  Why would she expect more? What other work had she done?  Or was she planning on staying an at home mom indefinitely? 

[Ohiopirate02]

7 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

What was the reason for Rebecca's mini meltdown where she is crying and telling Randall that she never imagined herself at that stage of her life taking an entry level position?  Why would she expect more? What other work had she done?  Or was she planning on staying an at home mom indefinitely? 

I don't know what the writers were going for in that scene.  The Rebecca we have seen in the 1970s flashbacks was singing in bars at night.  They have not shown Rebecca holding down a regular 9-5 job yet.  Even in the 90s flashbacks, she looks to get into singing again and not a part-time job in an office setting.  We did get a snippet in the 1998 Super Bowl episode that she has some type of office/clerical skills since she was somehow going to help Jack start his own business.  But, the writers have not show the audience that Rebecca has the necessary skills to get this job.  For me it came off as a privileged white woman whining about her lot in life while completely ignoring the choices she made that got her to this point.  I'm sure Beth's mom was back at work within a month of her husband passing.  

I mentioned in another episode thread that the writers have this annoying habit of playing fast and loose with the characters' finances.  This episode is no different.  Money is no issue to the Pearsons until it is, then the financial pickle is easily resolved until the next time.  The writers made the choice to have Rebecca somehow qualify for a mortgage for the new house without having any income coming in.  In reality, Jack died in February, this episode happened sometime in the fall of that year.  Rebecca should have had a job already.  I know I may be coming off as a cold-hearted bitch, but my mom was back at work 2 weeks after my dad died.  My dad died on a Wednesday in another state and I was back at work the following Tuesday.  My mom went from part-time to full-time at her job as soon as she came back to work.  

[SunnyBeBe]

3 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I don't know what the writers were going for in that scene.  The Rebecca we have seen in the 1970s flashbacks was singing in bars at night.  They have not shown Rebecca holding down a regular 9-5 job yet.  Even in the 90s flashbacks, she looks to get into singing again and not a part-time job in an office setting.  We did get a snippet in the 1998 Super Bowl episode that she has some type of office/clerical skills since she was somehow going to help Jack start his own business.  But, the writers have not show the audience that Rebecca has the necessary skills to get this job.  For me it came off as a privileged white woman whining about her lot in life while completely ignoring the choices she made that got her to this point.  I'm sure Beth's mom was back at work within a month of her husband passing.  

I mentioned in another episode thread that the writers have this annoying habit of playing fast and loose with the characters' finances.  This episode is no different.  Money is no issue to the Pearsons until it is, then the financial pickle is easily resolved until the next time.  The writers made the choice to have Rebecca somehow qualify for a mortgage for the new house without having any income coming in.  In reality, Jack died in February, this episode happened sometime in the fall of that year.  Rebecca should have had a job already.  I know I may be coming off as a cold-hearted bitch, but my mom was back at work 2 weeks after my dad died.  My dad died on a Wednesday in another state and I was back at work the following Tuesday.  My mom went from part-time to full-time at her job as soon as she came back to work.  

Yeah, a lot of rich people's problems to not be rich.  lol

  I don't get it either. Entry level would be appropriate for someone who is entry level on their skills and experience and it's no disgrace. Did she think the job was beneath her?  I don't get it. 

[qtpye]

On 11/13/2019 at 6:48 PM, DakotaLavender said:

OK I am going to say this: I can't stand how Beth and Randall come off as these super parents always saying with patience the textbook psychologically right thing, for instance when Beth went into Deja's room and asked if there was something she wanted to talk about. It is just unrealistic to me. 

Parenting sure has changed over the decades. There is so much over attention given to the needs of the kids. I have seen blogs about this and comparisons of parenting in the 1950s compared to today. The kids of today are so indulged. In the 1950s, I was visiting a friend and she cried because I won a board game and her mother said "Stop crying or I will give you something to cry about." Shocked? I can tell you worse stories. 

Now I am not saying that is correct, but all this over indulging makes kids grow in to weak adults who get triggered by every little thing. And this show does NOT have parents who model proper parenting in my opinion. 

I think Beth should have said to Deja: "Get back down there and handle it, you have a guest and if you want him to leave, tell him yourself. I am not the messenger."  

On 11/14/2019 at 5:37 AM, debraran said:

I am hoping when Fogleman said "complicated" for Cassidy and Kevin, it wasn't the marriage but that they come together and then end up friends. (I can hope) I'd rather see her as a friend and not just another girl Kevin attaches too and sleeps with that comes with baggage.  In real life Kevin doesn't really know her or her demons, or her likes and dislikes so they still have time to get to know each other. Lust is lust, it comes and goes.

One little thing I wondered watching the interview, it was a "Jack" moment of Randall to go in to talk to the boss, but besides Randall not bringing up teaching her anything when she asked him about it, did anyone notice all the people waiting when Rebecca went in and out and then when Randall went in to talk to him, the waiting room was almost empty?  Maybe I missed something but that stuck out to me. I assumed his secretary would have called the next one in. Maybe it didn't fit with Randall going in and saying what a nice mom he had. ; )  I felt for Rebecca but understood why the supervisor would want someone not so "green".  You can be a wonderful person and still not do a job well.  I hope she got some confidence though through this.

I also wonder though if Rebecca fails at the job since Randall seems to have to take care of her.  I understand Rebecca wanted another large home but her kids were older, why are mortgage payments eating up her life ins? Shouldn't she have downsized a bit or had enough to lower her mortgage? I know we don't know the fictionalized details but a decent life ins policy that Jack could afford at his age, should have had enough to carry her longer than a year. What about insurance from the house burning? Wouldn't that help? 20 years is a long time to carry someone emotionally or monetarily. It will be interesting to see how she grows and changes.

I know thinking about minutia but little things bother me sometimes. 😉

On 11/14/2019 at 7:19 AM, ShadowFacts said:

This was a head scratcher for me, too.  She not only didn't need a big house, she would have had to put the mortgage payment and insurance proceeds into the equation when she made an offer on the house, and not be pinched right off the bat.  If she had mortgage payments to begin with and didn't buy with cash, who gave her the loan with no other income than insurance proceeds?  And Randall would not have been totally taking care of her for 20 years in any event, because she has been married to Miguel for some years.  Randall was completely uncharitable in his implication and he's on my shit list now.  He better apologize post haste.

On 11/14/2019 at 10:33 AM, Corky10 said:

I am not sure how I feel about the dementia element. I realized at the end of last season in the hospital when Kate was having baby Jack, this was coming. My own mother had Alzheimer's & I have worked with Alzheimer's/Dementia patients for 14 years. I have strong feelings about how they portray it in media/movies/shows, etc. I was NEVER a fan of Still Alice, I feel like they sugar-coated it. I hope they do a good job with this and have consulted with people that actually know what this disease looks like. We shall see...

On 11/14/2019 at 10:44 AM, SunnyBeBe said:

If they are going in the direction of cognitive decline or dementia with Rebecca, I hope they do their homework. It's very common for shows to take on complex conditions like diabetes, cancer, etc. and then fail to do their research and portray it correctly.  We don't need cliches and stereotypical characterization. 

Was it just me or did it seem in the first part of when Kate was feeding the baby bananas that she was pushing the food on him and that Toby was trying to gingerly discourage it?  

If Kevin was not drinking alcohol in that bar, why was he acting and sounding drunk?  lol  I know he wasn't, but, it seemed like he was pretending that he was.  I don't get it. 

I have a father in law going through dementia and it is brutal and I really do not want to see it on the show.

To me , Rebecca is a woman who comes from some privilege, who is probably used to being "financially supported to some degree".

When we saw young Rebecca trying to make it as a singer, she seemed to have a fairly nice apartment. Did she wait tables to afford that apartment or did daddy pay for it? Was her well off family the reason she could so freely pursue a singing career without having to worry about finances?

After she married Jack, she it did not look like she worked in any capacity because she had to raise the Big Three.

It also seemed like Jack was pretty insecure in thinking that he was not deserving of her and probably really did not encourage her to work outside of the house for fear that she would "become to good for him and leave".

Now I am not saying that Rebecca had it easy or that she is entitled. Raising three babies at once is pure hell, even for the best of us. She also seemed like a hands on parent and was a big part of the children's life, though she might have neglected Kevin a bit.

I guess the long short of what I am saying is that perhaps Randall has helped financially support Rebecca when he finally got his first good job and before Miguel came into the picture? Could this be why she stayed close to him even when the other two left for the west coast? Mind you he did have a young family and the other two were single for a very long time (or at least since Kevin's divorce)

I am sure they will hand wave away any financial issues Rebecca has as a widow, who is just entering into the job market after a long absence, but it would actually be an interesting topic to explore.

It really did not make sense for her to buy a big house with the money. She will now have to maintain and pay for that house herself. Not to mention, what if one of the other two wanted to go to college? It is unlikely they will get a full scholarship like Randall, and college tuition had already soared past the point where you can pay for it by just getting a summer job.

[izabella]

3 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

What was the reason for Rebecca's mini meltdown where she is crying and telling Randall that she never imagined herself at that stage of her life taking an entry level position?  Why would she expect more? What other work had she done?  Or was she planning on staying an at home mom indefinitely? 

Rebecca did not expect to be looking for ANY position because Jack was supporting the family.  She didn't expect  Jack to die so that she would be forced to look for a job for the first time at her age.

Edited November 19, 2019 by izabella

[JudyObscure]

On 11/18/2019 at 9:33 AM, Ohiopirate02 said:

Randall apparently had 20 years of Rebecca living close enough to him that they saw each other on a weekly (if not more) basis. 

Since Rebecca moved, I wonder if Randall ever regretted  telling her she should  "call first" that time she and Miguel dropped in on the way home from the theater.

As for that dreaded "entry level" position, I think TV screen writers tend to view the working world through their own special lens, one that thinks any job that's not artistic and creative would be hell on earth. That's why we have, in one show, two singers, an actor, a dancer and a councilman (sort of show bizish.)  so Rebecca having to work in an office is bad enough but entry level with not even  a big desk or a secretary of her own.  The horror.

I think Rebecca should have been job hunting a few weeks after Jack died, telling Randall that she insisted he go on to Howard University, even if she had to lie and say she would recover faster if she was busy and on her own.  

[chabelisaywow]

Quote

Malik is 16. 

Poor casting choice, then. This parakeet looks 12. 

[ShadowFacts]

1 hour ago, izabella said:

Rebecca did not expect to be looking for ANY position because Jack was supporting the family.  She didn't expect  Jack to die so that she would be forced to look for a job for the first time at her age.

She also thought, as was just mentioned, that she was going to be working to help Jack start his construction business. Didn't they have that discussion on the day he died?  That's what came to mind for me when she became tearful in that car ride -- I thought she was thinking that was going to be her next act in life, and that was gone with him.

[Thumper]

2 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

She also thought, as was just mentioned, that she was going to be working to help Jack start his construction business. Didn't they have that discussion on the day he died?  That's what came to mind for me when she became tearful in that car ride -- I thought she was thinking that was going to be her next act in life, and that was gone with him.

That’s how I see it.  She just didn’t expect to be looking for work at her age/stage in life.  I don’t know why the writers used the “entry level” verbiage.

[Crs97]

Yes, Rebecca has been raising her children and helping her husband.  Now he’s gone, the dream of his business is gone with him, the house their children grew up in is gone, and she is competing with 20 year olds for a job at a company.  Any of these would be overwhelming for anyone, and she’s got all of them.  Beth’s mom went back to work because she had a job to go back to.  Rebecca is starting from scratch with her age and lack of experience against her.  She’s allowed to cry about it.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 11/16/2019 at 12:21 PM, nixgirl28 said:

She's 14. She can't drive, doesn't have a job, they determine when she leaves the house and with whom. They are her parents they absolutely can keep her from seeing him. My parents certainly did in high school

On 11/16/2019 at 8:03 PM, ams1001 said:

Or they could take the bus...

They ride the bus to and from school together.  Randall would have to commit to driving her both ways.  I know that's what he wanted to do at the beginning of the season, but are he and Beth really available to pick her up every day?