S11.E01: Eat, Pray, Love, Phone, Sex

[FormerMod-a1]

Quote

Grace returns from her European travels a new woman, but her elation is short-lived when she receives life-changing news; Karen teaches Will how to be better at phone sex; Jack has a yard sale to discreetly get rid of Estafan's annoying cuckoo clock.

Original airdate: October 24, 2019

[Harvey]

That title is so good.

[seasons]

Saw the promo for tonight's show. Seems to me DM is playing the crazy redheaded Lucille Ball character a bit too obviously.

[Annber03]

"The last thing I want to do is make another donation to Mike Pence's spank bank." OMFG 😄 .

Fun to see the Cher doll again :p. And I liked Jack and Estefan's "vows", as it were. 

Will be interesting to see how this whole baby thing plays out.

[Blakeston]

When Grace talked about finally living for herself for once, I wasn't sure whether to laugh or cry. Grace has always been about as selfish as a person can be.

Edited October 25, 2019 by Blakeston

[Irlandesa]

I don't have vivid memories from the original W&G but wasn't a baby plot basically Grace's end game story too?

Are they just rewriting the same ending again, more or less?  If so, watch out for Leo to the surprise babydaddy.

[Harvey]

3 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I don't have vivid memories from the original W&G but wasn't a baby plot basically Grace's end game story too?

Are they just rewriting the same ending again, more or less?  If so, watch out for Leo to the surprise babydaddy.

In the original ending will and grace got estranged and didn't speak for 18 years. I am thinking this time they will raise the kid while being on good terms, being there for each other and that is how it will be different.

[KWalkerInc]

6 hours ago, Blakeston said:

When Grace talked about finally living for herself for once, I wasn't sure whether to laugh or cry.

I couldn't believe she kept saying that with a straight face!  I remember an episode where Leo asked her if she wanted him to be happy (thinking she'd have to say yes), and she replied, "Not if it affects me negatively in any way."  That was funny, but it also sums her up pretty well.  I guess maybe she could have been thinking of that episode last season where she filled in for the missing mother bird with the eggs and got attacked when the mother returned.  The writers apparently decided this one good deed offset a lot of things that had been shown about her personality.

[Harvey]

13 minutes ago, KWalkerInc said:

I couldn't believe she kept saying that with a straight face!  I remember an episode where Leo asked her if she wanted him to be happy (thinking she'd have to say yes), and she replied, "Not if it affects me negatively in any way."  That was funny, but it also sums her up pretty well.  I guess maybe she could have been thinking of that episode last season where she filled in for the missing mother bird with the eggs and got attacked when the mother returned.  The writers apparently decided this one good deed offset a lot of things that had been shown about her personality.

7 hours ago, Blakeston said:

When Grace talked about finally living for herself for once, I wasn't sure whether to laugh or cry.

That is the joke, you guys. She is unaware of her own selfishness.

But also she was no longer pursuing a relationship in order to make herself fulfilled, she was going to find happiness within herself. But then the pregnancy came.

[Snow Apple]

If they have to do a baby plot, at least I'm glad Grace acknowledge she's old. They've been acting like they're still in their 30's since the reboot.

Who wants to bet the babies will be named Ben and Lila as a nod to the original series? Or is that too cheesy even for W&G?

[luna1122]

Loved seeing Will wearing his Dear Evan Hansen shirt.

So...not even a mention of Noah, David Schwimmer's character? I knew he wasn't coming back but wasn't Grace technically still with him when she decided to go all Julia Roberts to Europe? And how long was she supposedly gone? Couldn't the baby (ugh, baby storyline) be his?

[Blakeston]

3 hours ago, Harvey said:

That is the joke, you guys. She is unaware of her own selfishness.

But also she was no longer pursuing a relationship in order to make herself fulfilled, she was going to find happiness within herself. But then the pregnancy came.

There's a huge difference between "living for yourself" and being happily single, but the writers seemed to doing everything they could to make them out to be the same thing. They really seemed to be pushing the idea that the pregnancy was terrible timing for Grace because she was finally living for herself. 

3 hours ago, Snow Apple said:

If they have to do a baby plot, at least I'm glad Grace acknowledge she's old. They've been acting like they're still in their 30's since the reboot.

I'm pretty sure Grace said she was 49 last season.

I'd rather they just retconned their ages, and established flat-out that she's younger than 50. That would make it a whole lot easier to believe that she got pregnant accidentally, and can safely carry the child to term.

Edited October 25, 2019 by Blakeston

[DoubleUTeeEff]

I liked the whole bit with Jack and Estefan and Cher. I loved when Jack said "Hooo" when Estefan was moving the Cher doll back and forth.

I totally thought that after Jack and Estefan finished talking in the dumpster, the neighbor lady would come out flying of the garbage chute into the dumpster with them.

I didn't care for Grace's crying on the subway. I did like how excited and supportive Will was when he found out. 

I didn't like Karen's phone sex but I did like how she slapped Jack and told him to forget about having a kid.

Basically a half and half episode for me. I laughed at half of it and found the other half obnoxious.

[cathmed]

6 hours ago, Harvey said:

In the original ending will and grace got estranged and didn't speak for 18 years. I am thinking this time they will raise the kid while being on good terms, being there for each other and that is how it will be different.

Guess I don't have vivid memories either.  I thought she and Leo had a baby as did Will with Vince?   Or was that a dream sequence?

[Snow Apple]

33 minutes ago, cathmed said:

Guess I don't have vivid memories either.  I thought she and Leo had a baby as did Will with Vince?   Or was that a dream sequence?

Yes, Grace and Leo had a daughter Lila and Will and Vince had a son Ben. 

Will and Grace had a fight but made up only to find their lives were too busy and they drifted apart. Flash forward to their children meeting during the first day of college and that's where W&G met up and became friends again. Eventually inlaws.

All that got wiped out with the reboot.

Edited October 25, 2019 by Snow Apple

[Eliza422]

If she's so upset about getting pregnant, have an abortion. In New York they don't have the same access problems as in many other states. I personally think she would absolutely suck as a mother. Oh well.

the second I saw the episode blurb I knew exactly where they were going. I hate that the rest of the season is going to be about this. 

[festivus]

I thought the phone sex was hilarious on Karen's end anyway. MM just cracks me up always. I also loved poor, tired, befuddled McCoy at the start of the phone sex with Will. MB is just so cute.

I fuckin' loved that clock. I want it. It's just the kind of tacky kitsch I have all over my house.

[greekmom]

11 minutes ago, Eliza422 said:

the second I saw the episode blurb I knew exactly where they were going. I hate that the rest of the season is going to be about this. 

Exactly. They reconned the whole kid thing from the original season ending. NOW they are going back to wanting babies!?!? That ship has sailed people. 

Not sure how I wanted it to end, but not like this. 

[iMonrey]

Quote

They reconned the whole kid thing from the original season ending. NOW they are going back to wanting babies!?!? That ship has sailed people. 

Not sure how I wanted it to end, but not like this. 

I don't get this either. What was the point of essentially wiping out the entire last season only to turn around and do it all over again? The only thing missing here is Leo. And I have a feeling what's going to happen is that Grace is going to wind up giving Will and his boyfriend her baby. The whole thing is just weird. I don't know why the studio audience applauded when Grace revealed she was pregnant. I would have gasped, sure, but not clapped. 

I did crack up at Karen's phone sex performance, though, and Jack saying something like "Can you imagine a gay man popping into your house unannounced every hour on the hour?" Will's reaction was perfection. 

[festivus]

23 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I did crack up at Karen's phone sex performance, though, and Jack saying something like "Can you imagine a gay man popping into your house unannounced every hour on the hour?" Will's reaction was perfection. 

Oh, I did love that. So funny.

I forgot to mention that I loved Will saying McCoy was a straight 10 but a gay 8. Damn, how good looking do you have to be to be a gay 10? lol.

[MaryMitch]

The lady on the subway looked familiar, so I looked her up. She played the lady on the bus in a Young Sheldon episode a couple weeks ago. ("An Entrepreneurialist and a Swat on the Bottom").  It was almost the same character; listen to a random seatmate tell you their tale of woe.

[iMonrey]

Quote

The lady on the subway looked familiar, so I looked her up

She's all over the place. I knew her as Judge Horsedich from Trial and Error (a woefully underrated and underappreciated show). But she's got a list of credits a mile long.

[Snow Apple]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

She's all over the place. I knew her as Judge Horsedich from Trial and Error (a woefully underrated and underappreciated show). But she's got a list of credits a mile long.

I know her as the neighbor from Disney's Good Luck Charlie.

[Bridget]

The lady on the subway also portrayed the federal prosecutor, Caroline, on “Bones.”

I can’t believe TPTB are going to actually engage in the “Grace is pregnant” storyline. There is a part of me that thinks Grace’s doctor will call her, tell her that tests got mixed up and that she’s really starting menopause. Even if Grace is meant to be in her late 40s, menopause is still far much more likely than a pregnancy. 
 

I know I need to suspend belief when watching, but because I know Debra Messing is 51, it makes it hard for me to entertain the idea that Grace could really be pregnant.

[greekmom]

4 minutes ago, Bridget said:

The lady on the subway also portrayed the federal prosecutor, Caroline, on “Bones.”

I can’t believe TPTB are going to actually engage in the “Grace is pregnant” storyline. There is a part of me that thinks Grace’s doctor will call her, tell her that tests got mixed up and that she’s really starting menopause. Even if Grace is meant to be in her late 40s, menopause is still far much more likely than a pregnancy. 

From your words to the writer's ears. I rather these guys explore the fact that you do not need a baby to either a) validate your relationship or b) validate your life. And just go on to find their own happiness.  Maybe Grace writes her own Eat, Pray, Love book and becomes a best seller. 

[festivus]

11 minutes ago, Bridget said:

The lady on the subway also portrayed the federal prosecutor, Caroline, on “Bones.”

That's where I know her from. Also that Geico commercial. PIE!

I definitely could do without Grace being pregnant but I did have to laugh at how upset she was that the doctor called it a geriatric pregnancy.

[Claire85]

Ridiculously happy to see Patricia Belcher (subway lady). She was a delight on “Bones.” 

[lookeyloo]

55 minutes ago, Claire85 said:

Ridiculously happy to see Patricia Belcher (subway lady). She was a delight on “Bones.” 

I was happy to see her too.  We are on season 11 of Bones.  How much of the fillers did Debra Messing have?  Her face looks different.

[Kroliosis]

16 minutes ago, lookeyloo said:

I was happy to see her too.  We are on season 11 of Bones.  How much of the fillers did Debra Messing have?  Her face looks different.

Her nose looks pinched to me. I can’t figure it out. 

[emma675]

I don't know if I'm going to last this entire final season. Everything is so painfully contrite, the actors are being so weirdly over the top, and Debra Messing has so much botox in her face it was hard to watch her "cry" in the subway scenes. I'm all for aging the way you choose but something is terribly wrong with her face.

Edited October 25, 2019 by emma675d

[WordsWordsWords]

The best thing about this episode was the performance of Patricia Belcher as Subway Lady. There were a few other bright spots, but that was the best.

I've slogged through this entire reboot. I hope I have it in me to last through the final season.

[scrb]

Are they really going to wrap it up with having babies?

Going off into the sunset to raise a family?

These people are amusing because they never grew up, never became parents.

Can you imagine what Karen would be like if she had a brood?  If she was fucking "grounded"?

Parenthood may be emotionally fulfilling for some people.  But our entertainers aren't allowed such rewards.  

Centuries ago, males had their dicks cut off in boyhood to preserve their preadolescent voices.  They literally cut themselves out of having families someday.

It's an easy copout by the show runners and writers to end it this way.

Maybe they could have done a final scene of them in the future, sniping at each other in the retirement home, from their wheelchairs, in between hits on their oxygen masks.

Instead what, they're going to be trash talking about how dumb each other's kids are?  Well that might not be too bad.

[Guest]

Seems a little short to end a reboot after 3 seasons, but they're clearly running out of gas. As others have said, why retcon the original final season to do it all over again? It makes sense that McCoy might want a baby because of his age gap with Will, but I don't buy the rest of these childfree, self-absorbed people magically getting broody at 50, especially Jack. I thought Jack and Estefan would be separated by the premiere - their marriage still feels very 90 Day Fiance to me.

So with Will suddenly wanting kids with McCoy (and maybe Jack with Estefan), I guess that's the writers' way of closing the door on all the Will/Jack subtext of the reboot? Which is fine, and I know many hated the idea of them hooking up, but what was the point of all those little throwaway lines hinting there was something there or they'd end up together?

[Duke2801]

On 10/25/2019 at 7:37 AM, Snow Apple said:

If they have to do a baby plot, at least I'm glad Grace acknowledge she's old. They've been acting like they're still in their 30's since the reboot.

Nah they’ve been making “we’re old now” jokes since the reboot began. 

Acting selfish and immature has no age limit. 

[Blakeston]

On 10/26/2019 at 8:53 AM, SnarkEnthusiast said:

I thought Jack and Estefan would be separated by the premiere - their marriage still feels very 90 Day Fiance to me.

i can't stand Estefan, but the writers really seem to be presenting them as a One True Pairing, with Estefan fully understanding Jack and accepting him for who he is.

Which is strange, because from what they've shown us, they don't get along at all.

[DXD526]

I don't understand Jack and Estefan, either. Seems very random, which is strange, after all we saw Jack go through romance/dating-wise, in the show's original run. 

When I was a kid, my grandparents lived in a building in NYC where every floor had a chute to throw the garbage that led to an incinerator. That's what I thought of in the scene with the Cher doll. When Jack jumped in after it, I thought, wow, this episode just took a dark turn...

[Harvey]

What I find weird is how suddenly Estefan entered the picture. If the show creators knew he was going to be such an important character, why not give him a proper introduction like Drew got? With Drew, everything was planned out, it developed over time...while with Esteban he just passed Jack by carrying his luggage and that was it. They were in love.

[Blakeston]

3 hours ago, DXD526 said:

I don't understand Jack and Estefan, either.

Speaking of things i don't understand - which one is supposed to be the top?

I guess I shouldn't be surprised. These are the same writers who thought it would be believable that Beverly Leslie - who had shown a predilection for buff, masculine black guys - would be so turned on by Jack that he'd leave him his entire fortune in exchange for sex.

I don't think they "get" gay relationships in general.

[TVbitch]

Sadly, all I could think while watching was "thank god they canceled it". 

I mean, really? They could not think of ANY story-lines for middle-aged people. None?

I would rather see them have fun with normal 50ish stuff like dealing with an aging body, making a career change, going to therapy, getting a colonoscopy, trying the keto diet, whatever! Anything would be better than babies! 

[Harvey]

18 hours ago, Blakeston said:

Speaking of things i don't understand - which one is supposed to be the top?

They are both versatile.

[msrachelj]

On 10/24/2019 at 11:49 PM, Blakeston said:

When Grace talked about finally living for herself for once, I wasn't sure whether to laugh or cry. Grace has always been about as selfish as a person can be.

Really! Who the hell was she living for before? What a crock of shit! And pregnant and 50? Yuk. 

[msrachelj]

How much you want to bet Will breaks up with boyfriend for whatever reason, maybe boyfriend dies, who knows...SO>>>>>>Will and Grace will raise the child. Can you imagine being a 50 year old mother and father? How unfair to you child. Odds are it will be fatherless before it can drink and changing it's mother's diapers in less than 30 years. 

[TessHarding2]

On 10/26/2019 at 3:08 AM, scrb said:

Are they really going to wrap it up with having babies?

Going off into the sunset to raise a family?

These people are amusing because they never grew up, never became parents.

Can you imagine what Karen would be like if she had a brood?  If she was fucking "grounded"?

Parenthood may be emotionally fulfilling for some people.  But our entertainers aren't allowed such rewards.  

Centuries ago, males had their dicks cut off in boyhood to preserve their preadolescent voices.  They literally cut themselves out of having families someday.

It's an easy copout by the show runners and writers to end it this way.

Maybe they could have done a final scene of them in the future, sniping at each other in the retirement home, from their wheelchairs, in between hits on their oxygen masks.

Instead what, they're going to be trash talking about how dumb each other's kids are?  Well that might not be too bad.

My sentiments exactly.  Middle aged kids are having babies.  I never expected that at all.  I was also surprised and disappointed that they gave Jack a husband.  They are too alike and Estefan is not likeable.  I felt the same way about the cop Will dated.   OMG, why would Will date such an idiot?  Best thing about him was his mother and sister.  Remember the Thanksgiving episode at his parents house?

If anyone here is old enough to remember "Rhoda" with Valerie Harper, they spun off Rhoda from the Mary Tyler Moore show.  Her wedding was viewed by 52 million people.  I think Rhoda was 33 or so when they got married while all of her friends were married with kids.  Rhoda and Joe did their married thing until the writers couldn't figure out anything else to do but have them divorce.  This way Rhoda could be on the dating market again and run her own business.  I974 feminism was in full force and they didn't bring a child into the story (or make Rhoda a single Mom of a toddler).   The show lost huge ratings because the writers didn't want them to be divorced and her husband said that he never wanted to get married but felt Rhoda pressured him into it.  Devoted viewers of a comedy show just don't want to see that.  They're so busy wanted the characters "to grow" that they forget what got them those ratings in the first place. 

[joanne3482]

I totally and completely thought Grace was going to indicate she was experiencing menopause. I have no idea how old she is supposed to be in the show's timeline, but as a 50 something woman I definitely didn't think she was having a baby. 

[Lebanna]

Well, my great-granny had her last at 49, but she had eight more before that, so I think that changes things somewhat.

It also annoys me in a way, because leaving having a baby until 50+ is just not an option without difficult and often painful medical interventions for most women (and a donor egg). I don’t really have a problem with having or being an older parent, but normally if your Mom is 50 when you are born, you can be damn sure that she at least really, desperately wanted to have you. 

In so many ways, it would have been better if they’d just got over the baby thing that season (3? 4?) when they were going to have a kid together through insemination.

That way they could have mostly Invisible-Emma’d the kid like on Friends and said kid would probably be about 20 now and we’d be spared all this garbage. Plus, if that had happened, the original ending would never have been what it was in the first place.

I thought that by bringing this show back they were trying to fix what once went wrong, Quantum Leap style, not make all the same mistakes all over again. Makes the whole thing such a waste of time.

Edited October 29, 2019 by Lebanna

[Blakeston]

On 10/28/2019 at 1:22 PM, Harvey said:

They are both versatile.

Have they established that on the show?

[Harvey]

10 hours ago, Blakeston said:

Have they established that on the show?

Yes. In season 10 episode 14 "Supreme Courtship" they confirmed it as freely as something like that can be confirmed on a Tv show like this. Both Esteban and Jack wear overalls which have this text on the back.

[cathmed]

On 10/25/2019 at 12:03 PM, Snow Apple said:

Yes, Grace and Leo had a daughter Lila and Will and Vince had a son Ben. 

Will and Grace had a fight but made up only to find their lives were too busy and they drifted apart. Flash forward to their children meeting during the first day of college and that's where W&G met up and became friends again. Eventually inlaws.

All that got wiped out with the reboot.

Thanks for that quick synopsis.  I remembered the kids meeting in college and the W & G make up.   But evidently, I missed several episodes of the reboot which is why I was probably confused and wondered:  why she was pregnant (acting as if it was her first) and what happened with the kids (presume they're still married?   Was that even mentioned in the reboot?)

[Snow Apple]

1 hour ago, cathmed said:

Thanks for that quick synopsis.  I remembered the kids meeting in college and the W & G make up.   But evidently, I missed several episodes of the reboot which is why I was probably confused and wondered:  why she was pregnant (acting as if it was her first) and what happened with the kids (presume they're still married?   Was that even mentioned in the reboot?)

In the first episode of the reboot, all those events were a dream of Karen's.

[Annie2019]

On 10/25/2019 at 4:32 PM, WordsWordsWords said:

The best thing about this episode was the performance of Patricia Belcher as Subway Lady. There were a few other bright spots, but that was the best.

I've slogged through this entire reboot. I hope I have it in me to last through the final season.

On 10/25/2019 at 4:32 PM, WordsWordsWords said:

The best thing about this episode was the performance of Patricia Belcher as Subway Lady. There were a few other bright spots, but that was the best.

I've slogged through this entire reboot. I hope I have it in me to last through the final season.

Fun fact, Patricia Belcher was on Young Sheldon earlier this month, as a  passenger stuck sitting next to him on a bus.  He was going on and annoying her similar to how Grace was, and even said  almost the exact same line that she is sure she is going to regret this before asking a question.