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S17.E01: Out of the Darkness


thewhiteowl
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I've never been a fan of the epic episodes, for lack of anything better to call them. But, this one really got on my nerves.  Let me count the ways.

1. Ziva was ridiculously annoying. And I'm not a Ziva hater.  I 'm not a Ziva lover either, but I'm not usually so annoyed by her.

2. The whole team should be fired.  They lied to director and disobeyed his orders.  This is not the way law enforcement agencies work.

3.  Bishop, you can't just walk into the men's room. It's the men's room. Unless of course you decided to momentarily identify as a man.  Then I guess it's OK.

4. Gibbs, I'm pretty sure Ziva has already crossed the line.  I can't remember specifics, but I'm pretty sure she has.  As have you.  As has Bishop. and I'm betting Torres has, also.  It's why McGee's always been my favorite.

5.  Except that even McGee annoyed me tonight.  "When Ziva tells you to do something, you just do it."  I loved the director's line remark about Ziva not being the director.  But, then, of course he buckled.  I've never liked Jack, but she was the only voice of reason in that whole room.

The one thing I did like.  Jimmy.  And, annoy me though he did, it was nice that McGee got a larger role than he was for most of the last couple of seasons.

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I am not feeling Ziva. She had the nerve to try and guilt trip Gibbs but she needs to be called out for her actions. She had always been selfish and self absorbed.  And if I was Vance I would have fired all of their asses, this attitude that Ziva knows all and knows best is ridiculous. I hate to make this about race but I don't like seeing a black man in a position of authority and people blatantly ignoring his orders and lying to him and getting away with it.

Edited by mommalib
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Katy M, yes that line from McGee annoyed me to no end.  Mainly because it encapsulates all that was wrong with the writing for Ziva the first time around (well at least since season 6).  She got a pass for so many things and way too much deference.  Starting with the fact that she covered up for a boyfriend who killed an ICE agent.  Going to she accused a fellow team member of murder in an official report.  Skipping to season 10 when her revenge mission put the entire team in legal jeopardy (I was actually on Parsons side during that whole thing) and ending with her keeping Tony's child from him.  Hell they even had Tony say she was probably right not to tell him about Tali. 

McGee saying when Ziva says do something you do it is continuing right where NCIS left off with her character.  Too bad Vance gave in.  

As for crossing the line Ziva and Gibbs for sure have many times (which again is why I was on Parsons side).  McGee didn't much and neither did Tony.  Bishop has some but not as much.  Torres implies he has

Edited by camussie
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I am so glad others were not on board with this episode and in all honesty, I may not watch much at all of this season. I was hoping that Ziva was a vision that Gibbs had..rats...her character sucked the life out of the entire episode and will likely of the series.  I really hate the Ziva is always right and loved Vance saying what he did but then the writers made the entire team gutless and idiotic.

Ziva doing the "You abandoned me"...schitck doesn't work...She actually abandoned them first!!!! Plus, she revealed herself to Ellie and told her not to tell...

..but...but...but, then I found myself yelling at the TV some more when Ellie tells McGee that Ziva is with Gibbs...not inside or even in MTAC..but outdoors in a garden...where ANYONE can hear? Huh??? Huh??? Huh?????

Between this and a tornado warning for the next state over interrupting This is Us and only a backhanded mention of John Denver on Ken Burns Country Music documentary, I am NOT having a good TV night....smh....I may have watch 9-1-1 on Hulu to set things right...

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22 minutes ago, Katy M said:

3.  Bishop, you can't just walk into the men's room. It's the men's room. Unless of course you decided to momentarily identify as a man.  Then I guess it's OK.

13 minutes ago, camussie said:

Katy M, yes that line from McGee annoyed me to no end.  Mainly because it encapsulates all that was wrong with the writing for Ziva the first time around (well at least since season 6). 

But, you both have been watching the show long enough to suspect that that's what was going to happen with Ziva.  We've been stuck with that for years.  I've resigned myself to the fact that it's never going to change.  That line was indeed "blech," but it's the type of thing that always gets written for Ziva because we're all supposed to adore her.

Katy, Bishop going into the bathroom was zero about Bishop and all about Ziva.  Ziva did that with Tony, I don't know how many times.  TPTB seem to be trying to rotate Bishop and Ziva around one another, maybe because TPTB are likely aware of the grief Bishop has gotten as Ziva's replacement on the team.  As soon as Bishop walked in the bathroom, I thought it was some kind of callback to what Ziva used to do with Tony.

I will say that TPTB have FINALLY eased up a smidge on the "Ziva is invincible" angle.  She's taking pills for anxiety issues.  Like an actual person instead of a frickin' action figure.  At least that's something.  Small victory, in my opinion.

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Ohmo, I stopped watching the show after Tony left.  Only tuned in tonight to see if there was an update on his character.  And yes I knew full well that the Mary Sue writing would pick right back up for Ziva.  Agree that at least they had her taking medication for at least one of her myriad of issues although I never thought anxiety was one of her issues.  

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I hate trick casting like bringing Ziva on for 4 episodes.  And I’m really sick of the writing.  The first 6 or 7 seasons were great, but the writing has gone in the 💩 since.  Why is everything now about Gibbs being the target of everyone and getting the 💩 kicked out of him all the time?  It’s like NCIS NOLA where Duane is the target of every bad guy.  Let’s get back to solving cases instead of the #1 lead male appearing beaten and bloody in every episode. 

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1 hour ago, mommalib said:

I am not feeling Ziva. She had the nerve to try and guilt trip Gibbs but she needs to be called out for her actions. She had always been selfish and self absorbed.  

I am not feeling it, either.  I like Cote de Pablo, but the Ziva character doesn't work without Tony.  She is too severe or strident.  I will keep watching because I like Gibbs.  I thought Mark Harmon was great in this episode.

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The only way this works is it Ziva has replaced Ari's terrorist network. It would be like coming full circle with Ziva's hatred of Gibbs abandoning her powering her desire to make his life a living hell. 

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2 hours ago, Katy M said:

4. Gibbs, I'm pretty sure Ziva has already crossed the line.  I can't remember specifics, but I'm pretty sure she has.  As have you.  As has Bishop. and I'm betting Torres has, also. 

Yep, they all have and more than once.  So who cares about one more? 🙄

This story line is so ridiculous, it felt like a parody of itself and every other "super-cops" show.  That said, I had fun snarking on it while I was watching.  

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I had wondered if others had felt annoyed by a lot of what happened in this episode.  Glad I wasn't the only one.

I am a Ziva neutralist.  I liked her sometimes, and I didn't like her at times.  Towards the end of her stay though, her character did get a bit annoying to me (kinda like Abby as well).  She seemed to get more and more self-absorbed.  And this, "You abandoned me!" stuff was pretty rich.  She chose to leave.  She chose to stay off the grid (and apparently not even tell Tony).  She chose to leave little hints for Bishop and not any of the team she worked with before.  Ugh.

And that meeting in Vance's office was surreal.  First of all, why did they flat out lie to Vance like that?  I could maybe see that happening if Gibbs gave them a direct order to not tell Vance anything.  But even then, that would be highly questionable.  And what's this, "Well, gee, if Ziva said to stand down, we have to do what she says".  Seriously!?  First of all, she's dragging their boss to God knows where to do God knows what.  And you haven't seen or spoken to Ziva in years.  You have no idea what she had been doing or what her state of mind is.   I am shocked that Vance went along with that.  I know he goes back pretty far with Ziva and of course her father.  But that still didn't sit well with me.

Also found it strange that this criminal mastermind who orchestrated all of this was to be found in that bed-bugged invested place where her henchies also hung out.  I would have figured she would be orchestrating these events from far far away.  Maybe in another country.  Certainly in a nicer place of residence than that burned down, insect infested place.

I also hated that "To be continued.." stuff.  Really?  We have to suffer through more of this with Ziva dragging everyone around by the nose now?  Ugh.
 

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Alright.  Finished that episode.  How many more do we have on this stupid arc before we get back to a semblance of the show we know and love?  I'm as open-minded as anyone to accept TV ridiculousness and suspend my sense of reality for the sake of a good story, but...come on.

Is CBS in a tailspin from the Moonves issues?  The season premiere of Bull pretty much sucked, as did this one, and the following FBI premiere.  I'm halfway through NCIS: New Orleans, and I'm bored enough to be posting here rather than catch up on the characters.  Sigh.

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13 hours ago, camussie said:

Ziva is as insufferable as ever.  Guilting Gibbs because he didn't come look for her?  She played dead and for 2.5 years before that she kept Tony's child from him.  Given that she should take a long hard look at herself before guilting anyone.  

camussie!!!!!!!!!

Great to see you back. I've always enjoyed your posts.

I can see I did the right thing in not watching and dropping this show a third through last season. Based on everyone else's comments, they shoulda left Ziva's carcass with whoever it was that kidnapped her in season 7. Samir? Saleem? I'm blanking on that. And with good reason, since she made the ultimatum to Gibbs it was either her or Tony--after she'd lied to him and betrayed her team, AND covered the ass of her terrorist lover and murderer of ICE agent. And so we're back to the end of season six ultimatums, are we?

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This is the first time I've ever read the posts before watching the episode, but after reading I have no regrets. I did read a review of the episode and was wondering about the scene where Ziva was taking anxiety meds. Any chance that she's hallucinating? From the perspective of someone who hasn't watched, this all seems unbelievable.

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12 hours ago, KLovestoShop said:

I hate trick casting like bringing Ziva on for 4 episodes.  And I’m really sick of the writing.  The first 6 or 7 seasons were great, but the writing has gone in the 💩 since.  Why is everything now about Gibbs being the target of everyone and getting the 💩 kicked out of him all the time?  It’s like NCIS NOLA where Duane is the target of every bad guy.  Let’s get back to solving cases instead of the #1 lead male appearing beaten and bloody in every episode. 

I wouldn't mind them bring Ziva in for four episodes if they hadn't already killed her off.  I know they kind of left it open, but I'm really not a big fan of back from the dead characters.  And, if the story they brought her back for wasn't so ridiculous.

Just go play dead again. Your daughter will be better off without you because you will just raise her to hate.  I don't see Tony doing that, although he'll probably raise her to be sarcastic.

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1 hour ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I can see I did the right thing in not watching and dropping this show a third through last season.

Trust me, you would have HATED it!

9 hours ago, brgjoe said:

Also found it strange that this criminal mastermind

This isn't just an issue with Ziva, but TBTB need to lay off the criminal masterminds for awhile.  They are seriously overdoing it, and as much as I like any mention of Ari, this is a strrretch to try and tie this to him, even through Ziva.  He was killed in S3, and I think Eli and Ari have been mined over and over again.  Enough.

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Let's not forget Cassie discovering a viable human blood sample in a long dead bedbug.  Yeah that sounds reasonable.

 This story line will be a sad way for this show to end.  They will never be able to recover from this in the long run. 

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3 minutes ago, aquarian1 said:

I really like Cote de Pablo, but I ended up really hating how they wrote Ziva and her story lines.  This episode was no exception.  And to top it off, it's like they dialed up the insufferable to 10.  Do the writers hate her?

I read comments from other NCIS fans who post at other sites, and from what I've read, what we saw last night seems to be what a lot of fans want.  Not us (and certainly not me), but I'm always surprised at the people who seem delighted by the sheer presence or who genuinely like Ziva when she's written this way, as the one who is going up against some great peril.  I read reactions like this last night, and many really dug it, so I genuinely believe that TPTB are giving many fans what they want.  We just happen to hold a minority viewpoint.

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4 minutes ago, pally said:

Let's not forget Cassie discovering a viable human blood sample in a long dead bedbug.  Yeah that sounds reasonable.

I was wondering about that, too, but I figure if they can clone dinos from DNA they find in mosquitoes trapped in amber, this was perfectly reasonable.

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I’ve never liked Ziva and I was annoyed that they brought her back, and I was beyond annoyed with the whole “Ziva knows best” attitude from everyone, I was disappointed with McGee for spewing it and in Vance for giving in. I don’t watch the show all that often, I was watching waiting for FBI to come on last night, I think I’ll skip next week’s episode and watch again when the show gets back to dealing with regular cases, hopefully without Ziva. I miss Ducky badly, he’s always been the best character on the show, I like Palmer and how he’s grown and he does a good job as the ME, but I hope Ducky appears again soon, he’s awesome!! 

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17 hours ago, camussie said:

Ziva is as insufferable as ever.  Guilting Gibbs because he didn't come look for her? 

If he had come looking for her, wouldn't that have put her in more danger? It seems even if he knew she was still alive (and what happened to Gibbs' quirk of knowing everything without being told), not looking for her was the better move.

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3 hours ago, Ohmo said:

I read comments from other NCIS fans who post at other sites, and from what I've read, what we saw last night seems to be what a lot of fans want. 

From the people I know who like her/this, it's because she's a "bad ass" (for lack of a better term).  I, too, like that she can kick ass literally and figuratively.  BUT I would like her to do so without being so emotionally wrought and tied up in some grand mystery and/or complicated plot.  Also being one of Gibbs' daughter thing has to die.  But I know that's a minority opinion (maybe not here, though).

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I was so hoping at the end of last season that Ziva was a hallucination but I knew she wasn't. She was real and back. UGH! I have never been a Ziva fan so I was really disappointed to hear she was back for a few episodes, to bring all her angst and drama to the show again. I don't even like Bishop but I will take her over Ziva, who just brings the show down for me. 

16 minutes ago, aquarian1 said:

Also being one of Gibbs' daughter thing has to die.  But I know that's a minority opinion (maybe not here, though).

I totally agree! Ziva, hear this - you are not Gibbs' daughter and Gibbs is not your father. Give it a rest! All the crying about how Gibbs didn't go looking for her - I mean really. She is so selfish.

End rant. 

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So,

Overall a good episode. As a Ziva fan, she did seem to rub me off the wrong way though, she's not the Ziva we remember. Too much emotion and she was all over the place. The way she blamed Gibbs for abandoning her, I don't.... We're talking about a woman who her entire life was walking the earth believing attachment are a weakness. So the whole "you abandoned me" was not something you'd expect to influence her or bother her THIS much. Not to mention she abandoned them first, technically. I do get why she felt like nobody double checked what happened, hell, even Tony, but following that it almost seemed like she took joy in shoving her pain in Gibbs' face, and it's not very ZIVA-like.

Not to mention the pills. Seriously? It's so off characters and forced. In order to get to the bottom of things she needs to be EXTRA FOCUSED, not a druggy. Ziva was always with both feet on the ground and the fact that she's on drugs now just pisses me off. She should know better. And the creators should know better than selling us this sub-plot. Completely ridiculous.

Don't know what's the deal with Adam. Don't care.

Regarding Ziva's tactic, that is something I DO GET, though. She's a lioness who was detached from her cub, so naturally she'll do everything to get back to Tali.

McGee acted like a child this episode. Really. Bishop repeatedly explained how gentle the situation is but he only saw how insulted he was to be left out of the loop. At least at the end of the episode he seemed to find his common sense.

Good cliffhanger, things are going to go south now, right? ahh.

------

Another thing that got me in this episode, and most people didn't know or noticed. Listen carefully, at the beginning of the episode, on the "previously on ncis", as the clips roll, you can hear Cote, or rather ZIVA, humming a soft tune in the background... you hear it?

Same tune she softly repeats as she holding Tali's necklace in the sewer... (minute 1:40)

As I heard it and then again, I had to pause for a second. This is no random humming, and the tune seemed familiar to me.

After a few seconds I remembered where I heard it from, and had to slap myself for not realizing sooner... This music accompanied me throughout my entire childhood.

This tune is in fact an actual Israeli lullaby which hundreds of thousands of Israeli children are falling asleep to, each night. It's called "Pizmon Layakinton", which translates to "A Song For Hyacinth". It's as famous in Israel just as "Hush, little baby" is in USA.

Here's the lyrics with translation

"Night-time, night-time,
The moon is looking
At our little garden below

("Layla layla, mistakelet halevana
Baprachim asher henetsu bagina")

The blossoming hyacinth
In our garden abounds
Night-time,
The moon is looking down

("Bepirchei hayakineton
beganeinu hakaton
Layla layla, mistakelet halevana")

And the moon turns to the clouds and says:
Give a little drop of water to the flower beds!

("Ve'omeret halvana laananim:
Tnu tipa ve'od tiponet laganim")

So the hyacinth can bloom
In our garden, 'neath the moon
Night-time
The moon is looking down"

("She'ifrach hayakineton
Beganeinu hakaton
Layla layla, mistakelet halevana")

The actual song and music:

or:

This song talks about coming to life and blooming again. As Ziva held onto the necklace while singing it, I took a wild guess that this is what she used to sing Tali to sleep with, he lullaby, maybe.

And I'm also a furtune teller, or they took my own idea, because I actually put this song in a fanfic I wrote, back in 2016 ("Like Weed in Grass")

1205132453_.thumb.jpg.2187940f78bf00fa08735082c4ca104e.jpg

It's interesting that they chose a song about blooming and resurrection in that episode, and I wonder if it'll have any future meaning as well. And Kodus for the show for bringing references to actual Israeli culture and add credibility.

Edited by Lipush
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4 minutes ago, Lipush said:

Not to mention the pills. Seriously? It's so off characters and forced. In order to get to the bottom of things she needs to be EXTRA FOCUSED, not a druggy. Ziva was always with both feet on the ground and the fact that she's on drugs now just pisses me off. She should know better. And the creators should know better than selling us this sub-plot. Completely ridiculous.

Completely agree.  It's as ridiculous as Gibbs seeing a shrink!  I basically like Ziva even though the character is a completely unrealistic drama queen.  I always found her entertaining or interesting and that's all I really care about, but Ziva on mind altering drugs is total BS.

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21 hours ago, nittanycougar said:

I thought Mark Harmon was great in this episode.

I'm not sure about how he was written.

Most of the ep he was running all over germy D.C. with lots of cuts and blood running down his face, etc.  Now we all know he's superman.  But Joe on the street is going to see an old man (mostly white hair, lots of character lines on his face) who is all over the city looking as if he's been beaten up and nobody calls the police to help the old guy.  Yes, to us he's Gibbs! but to good Samaritans, he needed help because at his age he's not going to fight infection as easily as he did ten years ago.  

To whom does Gibbs owe allegiance?  We should have started to get an answer based on 'real' personal histories.

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21 minutes ago, enoughcats said:

Most of the ep he was running all over germy D.C. with lots of cuts and blood running down his face, etc.  Now we all know he's superman.  But Joe on the street is going to see an old man (mostly white hair, lots of character lines on his face) who is all over the city looking as if he's been beaten up and nobody calls the police to help the old guy. 

That's what I was thinking when they got on the bus.  Nobody gave him a second glance.  Nobody asked if he needed help.  I guess they could have figured Ziva was taking care of him.

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4 hours ago, Katy M said:

That's what I was thinking when they got on the bus.  Nobody gave him a second glance.  Nobody asked if he needed help.  I guess they could have figured Ziva was taking care of him.

I think you must never have frequented public transportation in a large city in any significant amount. Noooooooobody wants in any body's business like that. You wanna smoke crack in the back? You do you, buddy. You're bleeding quite obviously? I'm changing seats. Public transportation is the last place I'd expect someone to care. Even eye contact is held to a minimum. 

That said, I'll be the voice of dissent. I've always liked Ziba, but I miss her with Tony and vice versa. It also makes total sense to me that they would have patched together this father/daughter dynamic. Those were gaping emotional holes in their lives, and they connected. That's a natural fit. 

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I was struck by how Gibbs was shouting Ziva's  name on the bus there. Like, dude, way to keep a secret. I wasn't giving it my full attention so maybe I just missed it, but did they explain how hairy bad guy knew to look for the drive or memory card thingy in that bus seat? Coincidentally right when Ziva & Gibbs were there?

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On 9/25/2019 at 12:33 PM, hookedontv said:

I totally agree! Ziva, hear this - you are not Gibbs' daughter and Gibbs is not your father. Give it a rest! All the crying about how Gibbs didn't go looking for her - I mean really. She is so selfish.

End rant. 

Finally watched, and this scene struck a false note with me. Even though I had read about it, it caught me off guard because who would ever think when asking Gibbs if he'd give anything to see his daughter again, that he'd be thinking of anyone except Kelly? 

I think Ziva is crazy. I have a bad feeling about the guy who gave her the pills. I think something is seriously off with her. I have always liked the character, but not in this episode.

And the rest of the team? They were pathetic puppies, all of them. 

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Agent Gibbs' rule 41:

Be inconspicuous and you can hide, and, escape, in plain sight. 

Run through the sprinkler to reduce the sight of your wounds before boarding Capitol Metro Transit. Once you're riding public transit, address your partner using her alias, Zoe Davis.

The set design is improving in authenticity , 

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 I seem to be in the minority here, in that I didn't hate the episode. I also didn't love the episode. I guess "liked" would be the best word. I also confess that I do like "bad ass Ziva".

I think she stopped taking the pills so she could be more focused, but then it seems like the anxiety recurs.

I do want to see how this plays out, but is there any doubt that, before the end of it all Sahar (sp) will die at Ziva's hand?

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17 hours ago, Welcome5431 said:

Run through the sprinkler to reduce the sight of your wounds before boarding Capitol Metro Transit.

I love this! I just got a mental picture of Gibbs - that old fart - running gaily through some little old lady's lawn sprinklers, stark naked, yelling "Yippee ki yay, mother fuckers!" Or some such.

Also, I know I'm in the minority, but I like Ziva. Besides, she always had the best lines of anyone. To wit:

"I feel like a donkey's butt."

"Bad taste in men to impregnate her credibility."

"Your goose is fried!"

"No wonder he's keeping his cards close to his breasts!"

"How's that for old school slothing?"

"And she just gets off scotch-free?"

"I understand; you are very tongue-in-ear."

Now, who else on that show gets great dialogue like that? Lose Bishop, lose Jack and bring back Ziva so she can go nose-to-nose with Tiny Torres and his fun-sized bad-assery. Now THAT would be must-see TV.

Edited by Ebau
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9 hours ago, Ebau said:

I love this! I just got a mental picture of Gibbs - that old fart - running gaily through some little old lady's lawn sprinklers, stark naked, yelling "Yippee ki yay, mother fuckers!" Or some such.

Also, I know I'm in the minority, but I like Ziva. Besides, she always had the best lines of anyone. To wit:

"I feel like a donkey's butt."

"Bad taste in men to impregnate her credibility."

"Your goose is fried!"

"No wonder he's keeping his cards close to his breasts!"

"How's that for old school slothing?"

"And she just gets off scotch-free?"

"I understand; you are very tongue-in-ear."

Now, who else on that show gets great dialogue like that? Lose Bishop, lose Jack and bring back Ziva so she can go nose-to-nose with Tiny Torres and his fun-sized bad-assery. Now THAT would be must-see TV.

My fave - “Once in a blue lagoon”

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On 9/26/2019 at 3:03 PM, xtwheeler said:

You do you, buddy. You're bleeding quite obviously? I'm changing seats. Public transportation is the last place I'd expect someone to care. Even eye contact is held to a minimum. 

Haha! I agree with this completely. In the scene a woman in the seat in front of them actually makes a face and gets up once Ziva and Gibbs sit down, and you can see other people throwing them curious/perplexed looks throughout the bus sequence. It didn't ring false to me even a little bit that people weren't proactively coming to their aid.

And count me in with others who have voiced the seamingly unpopular opinion of loving that Ziva is back. I appreciate that they're portraying her to be someone who is battling with their mental health and clearly in deep despair over not only being without her child for what has apparently been years but also the despair of knowing that the people who knew her best and loved her, never questioned her 'death'. Can't wait for next week's ep.

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