S04.E01: Strangers

[JudyObscure]

1 hour ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

FYI - I am not the person who originally posted what you quoted! But I agree - being a single parent doesn’t automatically doom your kid to a life of crime and poverty. 

I never said it did. I said the statistics show that such a life is more likely, for a child raised by a single parent  and it is.  You don't disprove statistics with examples of exceptions.  Lots of people smoke all their lives and never get cancer, I could name some of them, but that doesn't mean it's a falsehood to say that people who smoke are more likely to get cancer.

[JudyObscure]

3 hours ago, alexvillage said:

It sounds like religious talk to me. "Epiphany", as if all of a sudden the simple fact of being married makes things more clear and easier. Marriage is a piece of paper that comes with legal rights and obligations, it is simply that. 

I said "I've heard lots of people (mothers and fathers) talk about the epiphany they had the first night home alone with the baby. "  That had nothing to do with religion.  Nether does it have anything to do with marriage.  What lots of people talk about is the first time they're alone with their new baby and it opens its eyes and looks at you so trustingly, that you realize you will do anything in the world for it.

{Cambridge dictionary: epiphany meaning: 1. a moment when you suddenly feel that you understand, or suddenly become conscious of, something.}

[ElectricBoogaloo]

1 hour ago, Josiemae said:

If men could get pregnant, you could buy birth control pills from vending machines, convenience stores, and online.

1 hour ago, Crs97 said:

It would probably be free.  Insurance at least would cover it all.

[Ohmo]

On 9/24/2019 at 11:47 PM, LexieLily said:

is that for the audience to infer that Toby was the primary caregiver for Jack and Kate either took off or wasn't around much?

That made me think of the flash forward where Toby is in bed and the other side of the bed is empty.  Given Kate's weight, it's not outside the realm of possibility that she dies at an early age.  We haven't seen her in any of the flash fowards.  With this comment by Jack, maybe Toby had to raise him alone after Kate dies, and Toby never remarries.

Since Kate was always very close to Jack (her father), Fogelman may choose to have her die at a young age, just as Jack did.  It would be a tragic sort of symmetry.

I'm nickpicking, but isn't Jack Damon technically Jack II instead of us referring to him as Jr.?  He's not Jack's son.

[Ohmo]

On 9/25/2019 at 7:19 PM, Forsaken said:

And why was the music so ordinary? When he took to the stage I thought maybe it was just one of those crappy talent shows.

I must have horrendous taste in music because I liked Jack's song.

ETA:

Quote

I would be totally down for an engagement involving an adorable dog in a dog tux and it was rather intimate, not some huge public gesture that Toby would probably engage in. 

Speaking of intimate, that's what I thought of when Jack II said "May I" and offered his hand to Lucy when they first met.  That moment became intimate (in a good way) really quickly.  It seemed like you almost felt like you should look away because you were prying into a deep moment.  It worked for me.

Quote

I don't mind Jack being blind.  I would rather see that than him being a perfectly healthy adult, it's more realistic.  

Yes, speaking as a preemie who hung out in an incubator many years ago, this often ends up one of two ways.  You're given too much oxygen and have blindness or too little and have cerebral palsy.  I was the recipient of option 2.  Jack II received option 1.  I was pleased that someone did some research and actually gave Jack II a disability.  He was a boy who was very premature.  Chances were high that he would have some sort of issue.

Edited September 27, 2019 by Ohmo

[Biggie B]

54 minutes ago, Ohmo said:

I'm nickpicking, but isn't Jack Damon technically Jack II instead of us referring to him as Jr.?  He's not Jack's son.

No, Jack Damon can't be Jack Damon II because he has a different name than his grandfather Jack Pearson. The II is used when someone is given the exact same name as someone who came before, but not directly before. In other words, there's at least one generation between the person with the original name and the subsequent, younger person with the same name. 

Edited September 27, 2019 by Biggie B

[ItCouldBeWorse]

1 minute ago, Biggie B said:

No, Jack Damon can't be Jack Damon II because he has a different name than his grandfather Jack Pearson. The II is used when someone is given the exact same name as someone who came before, but not directly before. 

Why don't we call him JPD? (Jack Pearson Damon.)

[Ohmo]

47 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Why don't we call him JPD? (Jack Pearson Damon.)

That's the name that was on his incubator, which leads me to wonder if he shortened it to Jack Damon as his stage name.  Jack Pearson Damon is either hyphenated or Pearson is his middle name.  I can't remember if I saw a hyphen or not.

Quote

The II is used when someone is given the exact same name as someone who came before, but not directly before. In other words, there's at least one generation between the person with the original name and the subsequent, younger person with the same name. 

Good to know.  Thanks.

[Forsaken]

53 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Why don't we call him JPD? (Jack Pearson Damon.)

Not as much fun as Blind Jack, I feel all piratey now...

1 hour ago, Ohmo said:

I must have horrendous taste in music because I liked Jack's song.

Fair enough but we are given the impression this song is something amazing. I think that is where many of us are questioning it. It's just a very average song sung by a very average singer.

1 hour ago, Ohmo said:

That made me think of the flash forward where Toby is in bed and the other side of the bed is empty.  Given Kate's weight, it's not outside the realm of possibility that she dies at an early age.  We haven't seen her in any of the flash fowards.  With this comment by Jack, maybe Toby had to raise him alone after Kate dies, and Toby never remarries.

Since Kate was always very close to Jack (her father), Fogelman may choose to have her die at a young age, just as Jack did.  It would be a tragic sort of symmetry.

I'm nickpicking, but isn't Jack Damon technically Jack II instead of us referring to him as Jr.?  He's not Jack's son.

Correct me if I am wrong but there was also that flash forward where Toby shows up at some family gathering alone and they thank him for coming. I got the impression that they may have divorced although thinking about that scene now I can't recall Kate being there.

So it is very possible she died. 

[Ohmo]

17 minutes ago, Forsaken said:

Correct me if I am wrong but there was also that flash forward where Toby shows up at some family gathering alone and they thank him for coming. I got the impression that they may have divorced although thinking about that scene now I can't recall Kate being there.

So it is very possible she died. 

I think there was a scene (maybe even that scene) where he said that she was bringing Jack, so maybe both can be true.  They could have gotten divorced and then she died.  I just think that it has to be something more than divorce because we've never seen her in a flash forward and in the flash forwards we've seen him with HER family.  I can explain that away once or twice, as she's late, busy, or whatever, but if they're simply divorced, why have we not seen her at least once?  There have also been repeated references to the Pearson still wanting Toby to participate in family functions, which could be due to divorce, but since we haven't seen Kate, it could also point to the Pearsons' desire to maintain a relationship with Kate's child after she has died.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

25 minutes ago, Ohmo said:

I just think that it has to be something more than divorce because we've never seen her in a flash forward and in the flash forwards we've seen him with HER family. 

I honestly don't think they want to commit to what Kate will look like that far in the future.

[bybrandy]

1 hour ago, Forsaken said:

Fair enough but we are given the impression this song is something amazing. I think that is where many of us are questioning it. It's just a very average song sung by a very average singer.

Nobody starts their concert with their best song.  

[Ohmo]

46 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I honestly don't think they want to commit to what Kate will look like that far in the future.

But that doesn't explain the flash forward that shows the other side of the bed empty.  By showing it the way TPTB did, the inference is that not only is Toby alone, but that the person who normally occupies the other side of the bed (presumably Kate) is no longer there, which could point to either divorce or death.  I don't think it's a matter of not wanting to show her in the future.   I think we're meant to notice that she is, in fact, absent from the canvas and wonder why that is so.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

Just now, Ohmo said:

But that doesn't explain the flash forward that shows the other side of the bed empty.  By showing it the way TPTB did, the inference is that not only is Toby alone, but that the person who normally occupies the other side of the bed (presumably Kate) is no longer there, which could point to either divorce or death.  I don't think it's a matter of not wanting to show her in the future.   I think we're meant to notice that she is, in fact, absent from the canvas and wonder why that is so.

I agree that they are either divorced, or she is dead. What I meant was, if the show runners have decided on divorce, I don't think they would show her that far in the future until the end of the show.

[Forsaken]

1 hour ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I agree that they are either divorced, or she is dead. What I meant was, if the show runners have decided on divorce, I don't think they would show her that far in the future until the end of the show.

If it's divorce, wouldn't it be funny if she has lost the weight (via any method) and after becoming slim decided she could do better than Toby? Could be a reason to not show her in the future until they are ready to play that card. 

It is a situation that happens in real life when one half of a couple lose weight and "find themselves" so to speak.

[spinxella]

[alexvillage]

11 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

I never said it did. I said the statistics show that such a life is more likely, for a child raised by a single parent  and it is.  You don't disprove statistics with examples of exceptions.  Lots of people smoke all their lives and never get cancer, I could name some of them, but that doesn't mean it's a falsehood to say that people who smoke are more likely to get cancer.

In the show, we still know very little about the young character and why he is a single parent.

Even if the studies are correct, I would bet that they are 1. more nuanced than that to include other dynamics and 2. if they are not, they are biased.

Saying that kids are more likely to be better off with two parents might be correct in the same way that saying that wheelchair users have disadvantages in life.

The thing is, wheelchair users do have disadvantages not because of the wheelchair (which gives them freedom) but because of inaccessibility and misinformation. The actual users get irritated and frustrated with the inaccessibility and ableism.

In the same way, while co-parenting might be ideal, there are a lot of factors that can change the outcome and expectations, things that are completely out of anyone's control. Ideal definitely does't mean getting a piece of paper to make it "legal". 

As far as we know, the character does have family support, his father seems to be pushing him to be an hands on father (I guess, and the kid seems to be) and at the same time allowing him a break to have teen fun. And no, in today's world we cannot dismiss anecdotes because living and making a living is getting harder and any solution is an opening for new dynamics. We are not going back to "how it was", as much as that might still be considered "ideal". It is a very different social structure and that has to be part of the equation. 

[Blakeston]

6 hours ago, Ohmo said:

But that doesn't explain the flash forward that shows the other side of the bed empty.  By showing it the way TPTB did, the inference is that not only is Toby alone, but that the person who normally occupies the other side of the bed (presumably Kate) is no longer there, which could point to either divorce or death.  I don't think it's a matter of not wanting to show her in the future.   I think we're meant to notice that she is, in fact, absent from the canvas and wonder why that is so.

These are the same writers who tried to convince us that Beth and Randall were split up in the future.

I agree that they're trying to create mystery re: what happened to Kate. I think they're way too schmaltzy, though, to actually give us an ending in which Kate and Toby didn't end up together. If they're divorced in the future, I expect them to get back together before the storyline is over.

And I don't see them killing Kate off at a young age, either, unless she dies in a car accident, or something like that.

If she was to die of a heart attack - or anything else that could be tied to her weight - I think a lot of people would be angry that the show reinforced the idea that being obese automatically equals an early death.

Also, the character is inspired by the sister of the show's creator, and I can't imagine him suggesting in any way that he foresees her dying young because of her obesity.

[ams1001]

So this morning my google news thing on my tablet gave me a silly article with lots of "emotional reaction" gifs about how this episode made everyone cry, and I thought, "they don't read Primetimer forums, do they?"

[JudyObscure]

1 hour ago, alexvillage said:

As far as we know, the character does have family support, his father seems to be pushing him to be an hands on father (I guess, and the kid seems to be) and at the same time allowing him a break to have teen fun. And no, in today's world we cannot dismiss anecdotes because living and making a living is getting harder and any solution is an opening for new dynamics. We are not going back to "how it was", as much as that might still be considered "ideal". It is a very different social structure and that has to be part of the equation. 

You know, when you called me "arrogant" I had been using the word "we" in regard to my generation, not myself individually.   I never came close to any ideal.  My marriage ended in divorce and it hurt my child more than I ever could have imagined.  The thing is, I never tried to tell myself that the divorce had been a good thing just to make myself feel better, I was never so "arrogant" as to think I was awesome enough to be both father and mother for him. I just wish I had been warned a little more about the damage I would do when I started the divorce.

  At that time, all the latest novels and magazines were all about women getting out and "finding themselves." They almost made it seem like you were setting a bad example for your children if you stayed in a less than perfect marriage.

I've never been talking about the character in the show. I have a feeling he's going to be the new saintly man, like Jack.  Someone else started the conversation about him and his school program, and I just jumped in with my views about the huge increase in single parenting in general.  I've heard sociologists describe it as the biggest single societal change, ever. It's not just "how it was" in the 1950's it's how it was for the previous 4000 or so years, it's not unreasonable to think of returning to it.   Making a living is  getting harder and that's just another reason why I think two parents are better than one. YMMV

[Ohiopirate02]

9 hours ago, Ohmo said:

But that doesn't explain the flash forward that shows the other side of the bed empty.  By showing it the way TPTB did, the inference is that not only is Toby alone, but that the person who normally occupies the other side of the bed (presumably Kate) is no longer there, which could point to either divorce or death.  I don't think it's a matter of not wanting to show her in the future.   I think we're meant to notice that she is, in fact, absent from the canvas and wonder why that is so.

During the flashforward in last season's finale, it is made clear that Jack and Kate are on their way.  Honestly, I think the creators did not want to show Kate and Jack for the same reason they did not show Kevin's son's mother, they had not written enough yet.  They may not have made the decision to make Jack blind when they were writing and shooting season 3.  This also has the added benefit of not locking Chrissy Metz into a specific size when they eventually get to filming more of the future.  

[Clanstarling]

11 hours ago, Forsaken said:

Fair enough but we are given the impression this song is something amazing. I think that is where many of us are questioning it. It's just a very average song sung by a very average singer.

It's been my experience, on TV at least, that when something is presented as amazing, most often it is not. Part of that is the difficulties in having access to the talent because of cost, etc. It's rare. Nashville did a good job, for the first season or so, because it had a couple of country music powerhouses on the team. After they left, it was okay, but not to the same level. Music, in particular, is extremely subjective. So my opinion about Nashville may be considerably different.

On the other hand, crowds react as much based on love for the individual as love for the music. So I, myself, had no trouble with the scene as I liked the song, and was fine with the adulation.

[alexvillage]

1 hour ago, JudyObscure said:

Making a living is  getting harder and that's just another reason why I think two parents are better than one. YMMV

My issue is not with the "two" part, it is with the "married parent" part. You alluded to marriage a few posts up. And I think that if a child has more supports, it is obviously better, because community/government support is not readily available, certainly not to everyone. Child care is so expensive, one parent in a two-parent family often stops working because it makes more financial sense. 

Again, a piece of paper is not what makes raising a child easier, nor is the single factor of the constitution of a family. Having people supporting the child, and the parent, is what will define the outcome - especially if you factor in the availability of community/family supports, because raising children must include the larger community and where the child fits in this larger community - race, class, disability, even gender (expectations). It is complex.

[Pallas]

Quote

During the flashforward in last season's finale, it is made clear that Jack and Kate are on their way. 

Randall asked about JackD, and Kevin replied that "they" were on their way. I think "they" does mean JackD +  Kate, but it was deliberately left open. (It could not mean JackD and Lucy, since "the clan gathers" future timeline predates JackD's meeting Lucy by several years.) 

[S.Batts]

1 hour ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

During the flashforward in last season's finale, it is made clear that Jack and Kate are on their way.  Honestly, I think the creators did not want to show Kate and Jack for the same reason they did not show Kevin's son's mother, they had not written enough yet.  They may not have made the decision to make Jack blind when they were writing and shooting season 3.  This also has the added benefit of not locking Chrissy Metz into a specific size when they eventually get to filming more of the future.  

I agree with you.   If I remember correctly...Toby shows up at Kevin's home, Randall answers the door and thanks him for coming.  Then he asks about Jack and Toby says...he's coming with his mother.

I hope I remembered that correctly so I'm going to assume they got divorced.  

[OhSarah69]

On ‎9‎/‎25‎/‎2019 at 5:47 PM, CarpeFelis said:

I think Jack knew exactly what he was doing. Rebecca said she’d told her parents not to mention Vietnam, and then that was the first thing her dad asked about - an obvious attempt to unnerve Jack and put him on the defensive, but he wasn’t falling for it. It seemed to me that being so upfront about what his family was like was a big “screw you” to the snobby parents.

I appreciate reading your take on it, and yours is an interesting perspective.  My view is that this is the first time you're meeting someone's parents - you can stand up for yourself without giving away your life story or "taking a stand".  They don't care about monsters under the kid's bed - it would have been sufficient to say that the war was very real to him and give some examples of what he saw/experienced during the war.  But just like fries come with a burger, drama comes with the Pearsons.  I guess that was more my point.  That, and that the Pearsons never miss an opportunity to give a speech when they have a captive audience.

Though in retrospect, the war was obviously still fresh for Jack and affected his view of the world, so there's that, and its effects certainly shouldn't be minimized. 

[Pristine]

On 9/25/2019 at 9:45 AM, Lovecat said:

I think my favorite line of the night was when Randall asked Deja, "What's going on with your face?" when she came home from the BBQ with that dreamy grin 🙂  That was kind of cute, and it was nice to see the actress's pretty face all lit up, in contrast with the grumpy frown she wears most of the time as brooding!Deja.

This!

[Ohmo]

5 hours ago, Blakeston said:

If she was to die of a heart attack - or anything else that could be tied to her weight - I think a lot of people would be angry that the show reinforced the idea that being obese automatically equals an early death.

It could be cancer.  There have been several instances (i.e. Elizabeth Edwards and Wendy Wasserstein to name two) of women who underwent fertility treatments, but then unfortunately developed cancer later in life.

We've also seen several flash forwards, and this show moves all around in time.  There's nothing that precludes the show from featuring Kate in one now.  if Chrissy loses a noticeable amount of weight at some point, make that have happened for Kate at some later point.

If she's not going to be dead in the future, I think they have to show her at some point.  If she's alive but TPTB are trying to navigate the issue of Chrissy's weight, shoot her sitting or some other way that's not full-length.  (Like a scene where Kate talks to Rebecca on the phone and says, "Hey Mom, Yeah, I'm running late, but Toby's on his way with Jack.")  I know that people sometimes carry weight in their faces, but handwaving is done all of the time in TV.  It's just becoming noticeable that Kate's not really part of a flash forward, especially since she's the Pearson.

Edited September 27, 2019 by Ohmo

[Alonzo Mosely FBI]

 I haven’t watched this in 2 seasons . I am embarrassed to admit I didn’t know Kate had a baby successfully I thought the baby was the baby from the middle eastern village . Their heads were both fairly flat in the back . And I thought when they were waiting for the doc they were in an adoption agency/lawyers ofc. I was jubilant the baby survived the destruction of the village. Whoops. 

Who is Nicky ?

sorry! 🙂 

[Clanstarling]

3 minutes ago, Alonzo Mosely FBI said:

 I haven’t watched this in 2 seasons . I am embarrassed to admit I didn’t know Kate had a baby successfully I thought the baby was the baby from the middle eastern village . Their heads were both fairly flat in the back . And I thought when they were waiting for the doc they were in an adoption agency/lawyers ofc. I was jubilant the baby survived the destruction of the village. Whoops. 

Who is Nicky ?

sorry! 🙂 

Nicky is Jack's brother.

[S.Batts]

10 minutes ago, Alonzo Mosely FBI said:

 I haven’t watched this in 2 seasons . I am embarrassed to admit I didn’t know Kate had a baby successfully I thought the baby was the baby from the middle eastern village . Their heads were both fairly flat in the back . And I thought when they were waiting for the doc they were in an adoption agency/lawyers ofc. I was jubilant the baby survived the destruction of the village. Whoops. 

Who is Nicky ?

sorry! 🙂 

They used the same baby for both scenes.  Not sure anyone else caught on but it was the same baby.   Good on them for saving some money on hiring one baby to play both roles.  You don't notice so much in the doctor's office when Kate is holding baby Jack but you do notice when she gets home and Rebecca is holding the baby in the air and you can see the back of his head.   The flat head is a dead giveaway to it being the same baby.

[ShadowFacts]

1 hour ago, OhSarah69 said:

I appreciate reading your take on it, and yours is an interesting perspective.  My view is that this is the first time you're meeting someone's parents - you can stand up for yourself without giving away your life story or "taking a stand".  They don't care about monsters under the kid's bed - it would have been sufficient to say that the war was very real to him and give some examples of what he saw/experienced during the war.  But just like fries come with a burger, drama comes with the Pearsons.  I guess that was more my point.  That, and that the Pearsons never miss an opportunity to give a speech when they have a captive audience.

Though in retrospect, the war was obviously still fresh for Jack and affected his view of the world, so there's that, and its effects certainly shouldn't be minimized. 

For me that scene needed some serious editing,  I don't know the point of including the parents' friends except for the guy being the one to make the dismissive war comment, but why not just let one of Rebecca's parents say it?  She already said her mother was difficult and then her father disregarded her wishes to not ask about Vietnam.  Jack's speech was entirely too long and thus lost punch.  He had only days ago had a wrenching meeting with the parents of the guy who died in his squad, and I would think he would have just shut down about it at the time of meeting his new girlfriend's parents, or at least streamlined the narrative.  It made me cringe. 

[Alonzo Mosely FBI]

17 minutes ago, S.Batts said:

They used the same baby for both scenes.  Not sure anyone else caught on but it was the same baby.   Good on them for saving some money on hiring one baby to play both roles.  You don't notice so much in the doctor's office when Kate is holding baby Jack but you do notice when she gets home and Rebecca is holding the baby in the air and you can see the back of his head.   The flat head is a dead giveaway to it being the same baby.

Thank you!!! I was sure they adopted that baby from the village !!! Same baby. Same age same person. 

[CarpeFelis]

1 hour ago, OhSarah69 said:

I appreciate reading your take on it, and yours is an interesting perspective.  My view is that this is the first time you're meeting someone's parents - you can stand up for yourself without giving away your life story or "taking a stand".  They don't care about monsters under the kid's bed - it would have been sufficient to say that the war was very real to him and give some examples of what he saw/experienced during the war.  But just like fries come with a burger, drama comes with the Pearsons.  I guess that was more my point.  That, and that the Pearsons never miss an opportunity to give a speech when they have a captive audience.

Though in retrospect, the war was obviously still fresh for Jack and affected his view of the world, so there's that, and its effects certainly shouldn't be minimized. 

Absolutely you can stand up for yourself without all that drama. Unless you’re a Pearson. Especially Jack, king of the self-righteous speech. The way the parents were sniping at him I bet he was thinking there was no way they’d ever accept him, so why bother holding back.

[Ohmo]

39 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

For me that scene needed some serious editing,  I don't know the point of including the parents' friends except for the guy being the one to make the dismissive war comment, but why not just let one of Rebecca's parents say it? 

I think the parents' friends had two purposes in that scene: To differentiate that scenario from "meeting the parents" alone, which is usually a thing that indicates the seriousness of the relationship.  Rebecca and Jack had just met, so I don't think the point was mostly about them.  Dinner with just her parents would have led into the focus being on Rebecca and Jack as a couple, and I think it was a little early for that.

I also think that the friends were used to establish the socioeconomic difference between Rebecca's family and Jack's family.  To show how this was how her parents typically spent their leisure time---hanging out at the country club with other couples of means talking and eating very expensive food.

[gonzosgirrl]

15 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I honestly don't think they want to commit to what Kate will look like that far in the future.

I think this is probably the reason, but I also have a gut feeling that Kate is dead. If this series ends with all three of the Big 3 still alive, I will honestly be surprised.

Count me among those who enjoyed the song and the performance 🙂

[PRgal]

16 hours ago, Ohmo said:

That's the name that was on his incubator, which leads me to wonder if he shortened it to Jack Damon as his stage name.  Jack Pearson Damon is either hyphenated or Pearson is his middle name.  I can't remember if I saw a hyphen or not.

Good to know.  Thanks.

Or he has two last names, without a hyphen, like my little guy!

[Scarlett45]

4 hours ago, OhSarah69 said:

I appreciate reading your take on it, and yours is an interesting perspective.  My view is that this is the first time you're meeting someone's parents - you can stand up for yourself without giving away your life story or "taking a stand".  They don't care about monsters under the kid's bed - it would have been sufficient to say that the war was very real to him and give some examples of what he saw/experienced during the war.  But just like fries come with a burger, drama comes with the Pearsons.  I guess that was more my point.  That, and that the Pearsons never miss an opportunity to give a speech when they have a captive audience.

Though in retrospect, the war was obviously still fresh for Jack and affected his view of the world, so there's that, and its effects certainly shouldn't be minimized. 

I see your perspective but I agree with @CarpeFelis. Rebecca’s Dad was being 100% a rude asshole to say that Vietnam “wasn’t a real war” while sitting at DINNER with his daughter’s new boyfriend who fought over there & saw people being murdered. Usually I’m against Jack’s pontificating but I was 100% on his side there, he showed up to be nice and meet his new girlfriend’s parents (who’d been told to shut up about Vietnam) and they decided to belittle and demean him with that statement. Why??? That was just unkind. No just no. 

That also doesn’t mean the Dad was wrong about Jack being a haunted man- he obviously was haunted, and had an addiction (alcoholism) but on the grand scheme of things he was a good person and father, would Rebecca have done better with someone not “haunted” who wasn’t as good of a person or parent?

[grawlix]

4 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

Tim Matheson as an actor plays the asshole card really well.

Matheson was on two episodes of the original "Leave It to Beaver"  (1962, 1963).   He must have been channeling his inner Eddie Haskell when he took on the role to play Rebecca's father.

Tim Matheson!  Rebecca's dad looked familiar, but I couldn't recall his name.  Anyone else have a desire to refer to him as "Otter Pop"?

[OhSarah69]

57 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

I see your perspective but I agree with @CarpeFelis. Rebecca’s Dad was being 100% a rude asshole to say that Vietnam “wasn’t a real war” while sitting at DINNER with his daughter’s new boyfriend who fought over there & saw people being murdered. Usually I’m against Jack’s pontificating but I was 100% on his side there, he showed up to be nice and meet his new girlfriend’s parents (who’d been told to shut up about Vietnam) and they decided to belittle and demean him with that statement. Why??? That was just unkind. No just no. 

That also doesn’t mean the Dad was wrong about Jack being a haunted man- he obviously was haunted, and had an addiction (alcoholism) but on the grand scheme of things he was a good person and father, would Rebecca have done better with someone not “haunted” who wasn’t as good of a person or parent?

Yeah...I get you.  I don't think I would put up with shitty behaviour from potential future in-laws either.  Belittling, demeaning and being unkind - that's a no go and they were jerks to Jack.  They get no passes from me, in case that wasn't clear.  But he could have just said "I was in the war and saw people being murdered, etc., so yes, it WAS real".  He could also have told them their comments were hurtful and inaccurate.  His pontificating was not necessary to me.  He showed up because Rebecca asked him to, against probably all of his gut instincts.  That took courage and deserves praise.  Yes, he did turn out to be a good person and father and it's too bad Rebecca's dad didn't see that.

[ams1001]

43 minutes ago, OhSarah69 said:

Yeah...I get you.  I don't think I would put up with shitty behaviour from potential future in-laws either.  Belittling, demeaning and being unkind - that's a no go and they were jerks to Jack.  They get no passes from me, in case that wasn't clear.  But he could have just said "I was in the war and saw people being murdered, etc., so yes, it WAS real".  He could also have told them their comments were hurtful and inaccurate.  His pontificating was not necessary to me.  He showed up because Rebecca asked him to, against probably all of his gut instincts.  That took courage and deserves praise.  Yes, he did turn out to be a good person and father and it's too bad Rebecca's dad didn't see that.

"I lost my brother there" would have been enough to make his point. Didn't really need the monster in the closet bit.

[Ohmo]

51 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

Didn't really need the monster in the closet bit.

I think the "monster in the closet" bit was for a different point, not one about Vietnam, but in response to Rebecca's mother's snide little comment about Jack supposedly being footloose and fancy free enough to go across country with Rebecca.  I think the point he was making there was that he was not some lazy slacker, which was what her mother was implying.  He, in fact, was parenting Nicky on a day-to-day level because his father was a drunk asshole and his mother spent the majority of her time in constant fear of being beat up by said drunk asshole.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

3 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

I see your perspective but I agree with @CarpeFelis. Rebecca’s Dad was being 100% a rude asshole to say that Vietnam “wasn’t a real war” while sitting at DINNER with his daughter’s new boyfriend who fought over there & saw people being murdered. Usually I’m against Jack’s pontificating but I was 100% on his side there, he showed up to be nice and meet his new girlfriend’s parents (who’d been told to shut up about Vietnam) and they decided to belittle and demean him with that statement. Why??? That was just unkind. No just no. 

Exactly. It would have been one thing if Rebecca’s family didn’t know anything about Jack and they brought up Vietnam because it was something being discussed in the news. But Rebecca told them ahead of time that Jack had served in Vietnam and specifically asked them not to bring it up. Instead of respecting their daughter’s request or the man she brought to dinner, they deliberately brought up Vietnam. DICK MOVE. It was rude, mean, insensitive, and passive aggressive so they can fuck right off. 

[BaggythePanther]

22 hours ago, Ohmo said:

That's the name that was on his incubator, which leads me to wonder if he shortened it to Jack Damon as his stage name.  Jack Pearson Damon is either hyphenated or Pearson is his middle name.  I can't remember if I saw a hyphen or not.

Assuming Kevin is still famous in the future (and I think there were some acting awards shown in the flash forwards) I wouldn’t be surprised if Jack II was using the Pearson name (going by Jack Pearson Damon) to get in the door, at least at first. So I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s one of those artists that goes by three names (which everyone eventually just shortens to their initials).

[CrystalBlue]

On 9/26/2019 at 6:12 AM, ams1001 said:

Of course, we know Randall's gonna have all kinds of feelings when he finds out Deja's new friend is raising his daughter (especially if we find out something tragic happened to her mother, or that she abandoned her). Doing what his father couldn't do for him. Cue heartfelt cringy talk with new boyfriend. Cue William flashbacks.

There isn't a Cringe Emoticon so I had to Laugh.

[DebbieM4]

On 9/24/2019 at 10:14 PM, CleoCaesar said:

Well, that was...something. I guess.

No words can express how little I care about Jack & Rebecca: The Early Years. I get that Milo V needs a paycheck, but is their story really necessary, 4 seasons in? We know how they met. We know their story, and how it ended. Let's move on, for the love of god. And that cringy Jack monologue over dinner...some things never change.

I am so over Jack & Rebecca's early years too.   And yes, there was Jack going into a whole monologue at the dinner table.   Predictable and overdone, and it doesn't endear him to me at all.

On 9/24/2019 at 10:32 PM, deaja said:

I did not like how they opened it without revealing who any of these people were or why we should care. 

I would have been okay with it if it hadn't gone on so damn long!   People on other sites posted that they thought they were watching the wrong show, had accidentally changed the channel, or whatever.   I understand trying to pique our curiosity, but I was really bored because it seemed as though I was endlessly watching people I didn't know and didn't care about.   All of that went on much, much too long.

On 9/24/2019 at 10:40 PM, chi-girl said:

Waited all summer for this.  How disappointing.  I don't know why they thought an hour (minus a few Jack and Rebecca clips) of new characters would be a good idea.  And even though we now know they are tied to the family, I'm still not interested in the new people.

I agree.  After waiting all this time, we wanted to see the family we've come to know!  Instead we were subjected to these random people for the majority of the episode.  I'm with you - I'm not at all interested in any of the new characters either.  They were shoved in my face too much, and I kept wanting them to go away.  It was overkill.  This episode needed a much better balance.

[ams1001]

I liked this line from the AV Club's recap:

Quote

Asante Blackk is a very young looking 17-year-old, which makes the reveal that Malik is a father feel especially jarring. But I also think we’re so used to 20-somethings playing teenagers that we sometimes forget what actual teenagers look like.

Very true, I think. (Someone in the comments also said they hoped they would reestablish how old Randall's kids are supposed to be, because they've lost track. I think Tess should be 12 this season, and I don't remember what the age difference between Tess and Annie was; 3 years, maybe? Pretty sure Tess was supposed to be 9 when the show started...but the actress was a few years older.)

[bros402]

On 9/25/2019 at 10:11 PM, Crs97 said:

I had the same exact thoughts and really wanted her to remind him she was off duty!

I don’t know if I can hang in with the Jack Jr. story, especially since I have this nagging suspicion his blindness will become fodder for inspiration porn.  Kate will make all these speeches about her son and limits - “how dare you treat my son like he has a disability!” and “he doesn’t have to see light; he is the light” - that people seem to love.   At some point someone will just have to tell her that she is an inspiration and super mom and they couldn’t do what she is doing, and I may break the television.  Show runners, can I let you know now?  We who live it hate inspiration porn and roll our eyes when we get ridiculous compliments for being parents.  

Oh yes the inspiration porn is going to be especially cringeworthy with this show. There will be so many speeches and talks and lectures and I can already imagine how annoying it will be.

On 9/25/2019 at 7:19 PM, Forsaken said:

Well that's the other thing, why weren't they all in 3 inch thick UV protector suits or something? Why did life seem so casual? And why was the music so ordinary? When he took to the stage I thought maybe it was just one of those crappy talent shows. I think they have painted themselves into a corner on this one.

If they had of maybe left it at adult Jack Jr it may have still been ok-ish it was the other newbies as well which just made it all too much. 

That isn't how climate change will work. I believe the current projections (which have increased rapidly in the last 20 years because of consumption being beyond even the worst of the projections) say the temperature of the planet will increase 4-6 F by 2040. The global sea level will have risen a foot. For reference, the sea level rose 6-8 inches between 1900 and 2016. The up to 12 inch rise in sea level will have been between 2000 and 2040.

[ShadowFacts]

I don't think anyone has touched on Rebecca's father's little warning speech to Jack which was as overdone as Jack's speech at the table.  He was the only one who could calm crying baby Rebecca blah blah she is his whole world!  Despite having a wife and another daughter.  They just don't do subtlety on this show.

[IDreamofJoaquin]

This was a great episode. It had me in tears a few times.  I don't know if it was because we got a break from the whiny regular cast or what but it was written very well and we got a mini House reunion!