S11.E09: Oklahoma City City Finals

[Lantern7]

Yes, "City" is in there twice.

Quote

The competition returns to Oklahoma City for the City Finals; competitors including Daniel Gil, Barclay Stockett, The Kid and more will face up to 10 challenging obstacles, including Snap Back, which is new to the course this year.

Apparently, Mathis Ohwadi is too big for his "regular" name. While I think that Daniel Gil running for the Speed Pass where he's already got his spot secured may invite disaster . . .  come on, wouldn't you want him and Kid running for the Safety Pass?

Edited July 30, 2019 by Lantern7

[Hellga]

They are my front-runners too.  We will see...

This is another strong group of women here, I hope they all do well (and better than Maggie Thorne, for some reason I find her irritating and very fake - maybe it's the bow or the "single mom" story she keeps milking - c'mon, you are divorced, not widowed, and your ex probably contributes time and/or money to childcare). 

[ams1001]

Ouch, Maggi Thorne! Nice save, but that had to hurt. Hope she didn't concuss herself! (I was expecting her to come up bleeding after that fall. Looks like she might have an impressive bruise, though.)

(She's not my favorite, either, but I'm certainly not rooting for anyone to get hurt!)

Edited July 30, 2019 by ams1001

[Lantern7]

Three women have cleared the Warped Wall. Karen Wiltin needed three tries, and I think Akbar creamed himself when that happened.

Maggi Thorne had the epic save on the third obstacle. Has she ever run in Las Vegas before?

ETA: . . . and Barclay knocked Maggi out of contention. Maybe a woman finishing in third could qualify if the best performer cracks the top 12 among everyone? Just tossing it out there.

Edited July 30, 2019 by Lantern7

[Hellga]

Daniel Gil is another super-human.  I would love to see him square against Drew Dreschel one on one!

Let's see how women do vs. men, but it's so sad that here we have women failing on 8th obstacle and not making it - and in Atlanta two women are going who didn't even clear the warped wall... 

[Conotocarious]

The Kid beats Gil for the safety pass. I didn’t see that coming. 

[ams1001]

Just now, Conotocarious said:

The Kid beats Gil for the safety pass. I didn’t see that coming. 

It was over before I realized it was started. All I saw was the replay of the end.

[Ciarrai]

I have an irrational dislike for The Kid. He seems extremely arrogant, and I can't get over how he looks like the surviving Boston Marathon bomber.

[Rickster]

Amazing how cold it looked in OKC for the end of July...;)

[eel21788]

3 hours ago, Hellga said:

..This is another strong group of women here, I hope they all do well (and better than Maggie Thorne, for some reason I find her irritating and very fake - maybe it's the bow or the "single mom" story she keeps milking - c'mon, you are divorced, not widowed, and your ex probably contributes time and/or money to childcare). 

There are few competitors who I actually detest, but Maggi Thorn-in-the-Side is one of them. Aside from being the perpetual victim, the bow looks so stupid. She claims she wears it to prove you can be athletic and still be feminine. I'm dying for the opportunity to explain to her, you can be feminine without looking like a toddler who got into her mother's make-up. 

As an aside, I've noticed the conspicuous absence of Michael Stanger this year. Maybe his sob story has finally run its course (no pun intended). Now he's been replaced by a commercial for Grace & Lace.

Edited July 30, 2019 by eel21788

[djlynch]

2 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

ETA: . . . and Barclay knocked Maggi out of contention. Maybe a woman finishing in third could qualify if the best performer cracks the top 12 among everyone? Just tossing it out there. 

I don't think they've changed anything about how the "at least ____ women" rule works compared to last season, but it's annoying me a lot more this season. Some cities have a lot more female talent than others and two women advancing per city finals doesn't feel like enough even in the cities that aren't stacked, but it also doesn't feel fair to the men that the number of them that advance is dependent on the number of women who make it to the overall top 12.

[SophiaD]

I must be the only one out there who actually likes Maggi Thorne. I seem to remember that her husband dumped her publicly or was cheating on her or something and it sounded excruciating.

Also, I loved how well she did on the Spartan team last year, I think, and I love how supportive she is of other women, especially Jessie Graf.

I'm not a huge fan of "The Kid," so tonight's episode was just okay for me.  I'm happy for Karsten and everyone who is moving on, but I like Daniel SO MUCH MORE than "The Kid."  Also, I like Barclay better than the woman who came in first, so there's that.

It's ridiculous that the two women who finished first and second last week are ahead of all of these women who went so much farther, but I guess it is what it is.

[Chaos Theory]

I actually felt really bad for Maggie Thorne who has never been one of the top female competitors but she has always been fun to watch.  I was really happy for her when she made it up the warped wall.   I am disappointed that she didn’t make it to finals though.  

[ClareWalks]

I like Maggie but I think her personal style is rather unfortunate. Now that she has bangs, the bows and bright makeup look even more childish. I admired her chutzpah on the course this week though. It is a travesty that they stacked this city with female talent when, as others have pointed out, the advancers last week were mediocre.

Edit: Maggie has been recovering from a concussion since then. Poor lady, that sucks.

Edited July 30, 2019 by ClareWalks

[Conotocarious]

Yikes, that article really makes it sound like she was badly injured. Concussions are serious but she needs speech therapy to regain cognitive skills? Wow. 

Im pretty sure she’s not the only one who has gotten a concussion on those courses. The crazier they get, the more dangerous they get.

[ams1001]

35 minutes ago, ClareWalks said:

Edit: Maggie has been recovering from a concussion since then. Poor lady, that sucks.

I saw that this morning...they call it "mild" but the description doesn't sound so mild! Hope she's doing okay.

[catalogrrr]

8 hours ago, eel21788 said:

There are few competitors who I actually detest, but Maggi Thorn-in-the-Side is one of them. Aside from being the perpetual victim, the bow looks so stupid. She claims she wears it to prove you can be athletic and still be feminine. I'm dying for the opportunity to explain to her, you can be feminine without looking like a toddler who got into her mother's make-up. 

As an aside, I've noticed the conspicuous absence of Michael Stanger this year. Maybe his sob story has finally run its course (no pun intended). Now he's been replaced by a commercial for Grace & Lace.

My dislike for Maggi Thorne is pretty strong, for all of the reasons you mention. I guess she got custody of ANW in the divorce, since I remember her ex was also a competitor. 

That Grace & Lace commercial was just too much. I switched to Below Deck Med at that point. LOL

[Lantern7]

11 hours ago, Ciarrai said:

I have an irrational dislike for The Kid. He seems extremely arrogant, and I can't get over how he looks like the surviving Boston Marathon bomber.

I’m not getting that vibe. I can see ANW bending over backwards to keep him, now that Natalie Duran left to do The Challenge.

ETA: I know Natalie is/was second-tier among the female ninjas at best, but her jump would be cause for concern. I reckon most of the established "names" are too old and too sane for The Challenge, but those in their early twenties or younger might be easier to entice.

Edited July 30, 2019 by Lantern7

[Lovecat]

12 hours ago, Hellga said:

This is another strong group of women here, I hope they all do well (and better than Maggie Thorne, for some reason I find her irritating and very fake - maybe it's the bow or the "single mom" story she keeps milking - c'mon, you are divorced, not widowed...). 

9 hours ago, eel21788 said:

There are few competitors who I actually detest, but Maggi Thorn-in-the-Side is one of them. Aside from being the perpetual victim, the bow looks so stupid. She claims she wears it to prove you can be athletic and still be feminine. I'm dying for the opportunity to explain to her, you can be feminine without looking like a toddler who got into her mother's make-up. 

1 hour ago, ClareWalks said:

I like Maggie but I think her personal style is rather unfortunate. Now that she has bangs, the bows and bright makeup look even more childish. I admired her chutzpah on the course this week though. It is a travesty that they stacked this city with female talent when, as others have pointed out, the advancers last week were mediocre.

Edit: Maggie has been recovering from a concussion since then. Poor lady, that sucks.

I was going to invite you three to come sit next to me so we could all snark together, but then I saw Clare's addendum, and now I feel like a monster...  She did bonk her noggin pretty damn hard, and I do admire her for continuing the course after such a skull-rattling fall.  But that damn bow has got to go; it makes me irrationally cranky.

[AZChristian]

Reading that article was like listening to rehearsals for the "great comeback" angle for Maggie's next appearance.

I'm with you all . . . I hope she's okay.  

[VartanFan]

Whoa!  Wishing the best to Thorne but I agree with this:

Quote

you can be feminine without looking like a toddler who got into her mother's make-up. 

It also sends the message that somehow the other women aren't feminine and strong.  They totally are.

I'm thrilled that at least Daniel Gil did not win the Tower.  At the risk of beating and then starting fire to a dead horse...I can't stand him.  I recognize him as a great athlete but he grates on me  hard.  

[enoughcats]

This year, I'm going to guess that "The Kid" just doesn't photograph with any charisma showing,  Or did they just edit him to look bored?

Did TPTB make the kid wear the skull cap so his curly hair wouldn't compete with the Daniel Gill lockes?  I can see two more years of hair growth on TK and Gill will be in a serious hair competition.

And a nod to B Stephenson, who I remember for being wholesome and not saddled with a stupid The ________ Ninja, who didn't get that far.  Did the guys say "age has caught up with him?" or was I dreaming that?

[Lantern7]

4 minutes ago, enoughcats said:

And a nod to B Stephenson, who I remember for being wholesome and not saddled with a stupid The ________ Ninja, who didn't get that far.  Did the guys say "age has caught up with him?" or was I dreaming that?

How about "The Ninja Once Involved With Kacy Catenzaro"? Or perhaps "The Ninja Who Just HAD To Risk His Safety To Hug Kacy After She Finished Her City Final Course"?

8 hours ago, SophiaD said:

Also, I loved how well [Maggi] did on the Spartan team last year,

Two years ago. Between Spartan and The Titan Games, NBC hasn't been successful in following up on the success of ANW.

[realdancemom]

14 hours ago, Conotocarious said:

The Kid beats Gil for the safety pass. I didn’t see that coming. 

I haven't watched the episode yet but I could see this happening.  The Kid has always been one of the faster contestants and I believe he beat Gil's time before.  The Kid is tall and lanky so a good build for the upper body obstacles that require long reaches and his weight won't be as much of a hindrance as somebody that is really muscular.

[catalogrrr]

1 hour ago, VartanFan said:

I'm thrilled that at least Daniel Gil did not win the Tower.  At the risk of beating and then starting fire to a dead horse...I can't stand him.  I recognize him as a great athlete but he grates on me  hard.  

Yes. Daniel Gil bothers me to no end. I don't enjoy watching him succeed on the course because his personality grates on me so hard. I find myself actively rooting against him, and feeling happy whenever he fails.

[eel21788]

4 hours ago, Lovecat said:

I was going to invite you three to come sit next to me so we could all snark together, but then I saw Clare's addendum, and now I feel like a monster...  She did bonk her noggin pretty damn hard, and I do admire her for continuing the course after such a skull-rattling fall.  But that damn bow has got to go; it makes me irrationally cranky.

Just let me know when and where. I'll be there.

[eel21788]

4 hours ago, Conotocarious said:

Yikes, that article really makes it sound like she was badly injured. Concussions are serious but she needs speech therapy to regain cognitive skills? Wow. 

I had serious questions about her cognitive skills before she hit her head.

[eel21788]

5 hours ago, ClareWalks said:

. It is a travesty that they stacked this city with female talent when, as others have pointed out, the advancers last week were mediocre.

They really didn't though. Thorn-in-the-Side and Barkley were the only really known talent. I think it was expected that they would be the ones going to Vegas. I doubt the schedulers had the expectation that three rookies would do so well and one would be able to out-do the Thorn.

Edited July 30, 2019 by eel21788

[ClareWalks]

6 minutes ago, eel21788 said:

They really didn't though. Thorn-in-the-Side and Barkley were the only really known talent. I think it was expected that they would be the ones going to Vegas. I doubt the schedulers had the expectation that three rookies would do so well and one would be able to out-do the Thorn.

Good point, I guess the travesty is that we have this stupid "top 2 always advance" rule that has the potential to be grossly unfair to great competitors who just happened to have too much competition in one city. Some folks offered different options but I think "all women who make it to the 8th obstacle advance" would be more fair than this setup. Might be 3 from one city, one from another. It'd even out more and be less patronizing to us gals.

[mlp]

Quote

This year, I'm going to guess that "The Kid" just doesn't photograph with any charisma showing,  Or did they just edit him to look bored?

I don't know but he always looks on the sullen side to me and his hair always looks dirty.  He's probably really neither sullen nor dirty but he never looks like he's having any fun at all.  

I love Daniel Gil.  He and Travis Rosen are my favorites.  Unlike The Kid, Daniel always looks like he's happy to be there and he's always gracious to everyone else.  

I was happy that Barclay made it to Vegas because I like her but I seriously wish they'd stop giving females special advantages.  Jessie and Jesse have proved that really strong women can compete in this sport very well and can often do a lot better than weaker men.  If women want to be considered equal to men in particular situations, they should be subject to equal expectations.  I am female and I'm sick of the hypocrisy. 

[Hellga]

6 hours ago, Lovecat said:

I was going to invite you three to come sit next to me so we could all snark together, but then I saw Clare's addendum, and now I feel like a monster...  She did bonk her noggin pretty damn hard, and I do admire her for continuing the course after such a skull-rattling fall.  But that damn bow has got to go; it makes me irrationally cranky.

Well, unless she was also concussed when she chose to wear the bow and the glitter, snarking on  her fashion sense is still fair game.  I do wish her speedy recovery, though.  I never want to see an athlete get injured, no matter how I feel about them personally (unless they are a prick who intentionally causes injury to others, then it's fair game if it also happens to them).

2 hours ago, ClareWalks said:

Good point, I guess the travesty is that we have this stupid "top 2 always advance" rule that has the potential to be grossly unfair to great competitors who just happened to have too much competition in one city. Some folks offered different options but I think "all women who make it to the 8th obstacle advance" would be more fair than this setup. Might be 3 from one city, one from another. It'd even out more and be less patronizing to us gals.

That would be a solution I could stand behind also.

40 minutes ago, mlp said:

I love Daniel Gil.  He and Travis Rosen are my favorites.  Unlike The Kid, Daniel always looks like he's happy to be there and he's always gracious to everyone else.  

I was happy that Barclay made it to Vegas because I like her but I seriously wish they'd stop giving females special advantages.  Jessie and Jesse have proved that really strong women can compete in this sport very well and can often do a lot better than weaker men.  If women want to be considered equal to men in particular situations, they should be subject to equal expectations.  I am female and I'm sick of the hypocrisy. 

I like Daniel Gil too.  My favorite is probably Kevin Bull.  One of my classmates in my post-doc program had allopecia also, and Sam was an awesome guy, so I guess I transfer some of that to Kevin also.  The kids with allopecia seem to adore him too.  

As far as not giving females an advantage... on one hand, I am generally against any gender/race/other non-controllable demographic factor based advantages.  On the other hand, they never said their goal is even playing field.  Their goal is popularizing the sport (and maximizing their viewership and thus their revenue).  Giving women an advantage - we would have what, three women get to Vegas at best without it?  Even when women go as far as the men, they are only about half as fast so they inevitably lose - probably does increase interest among some key segments so they will continue doing it.

[eel21788]

5 hours ago, ClareWalks said:

Some folks offered different options but I think "all women who make it to the 8th obstacle advance" would be more fair than this setup. Might be 3 from one city, one from another. It'd even out more and be less patronizing to us gals.

However, could they really get away with all men who make it up the 10th obstacle go to Vegas, but women only have to make it past the 7th obstacle, thus having a shorter course for the women? 

Also one of my questions: why do they never do anything different with the Salmon Ladder? It's been the same in every finals course for as long as I can remember. What not make it six rungs or make the rungs farther apart or something else that tests real skill instead of the same thing they've had the opportunity to practice over and over?

Edited July 30, 2019 by eel21788

[AZChristian]

2 hours ago, eel21788 said:

Also one of my questions: why do they never do anything different with the Salmon Ladder? It's been the same in every finals course for as long as I can remember. What not make it six rungs or make the rungs farther apart or something else that tests real skill instead of the same thing they've had the opportunity to practice over and over?

I may be wrong, but didn't they have it one year where the contestants had to go up the salmon ladder on one side, then go over to the other side and grab a different bar at that top level and do it down?

[enoughcats]

2 hours ago, eel21788 said:

different with the Salmon Ladder?

IIRC there was one time when contestants climbed up one side of the salmon ladder and then had to do a 180 and drop down the other side.

I really like your idea of varying the distances from one hop to the next.  It certainly wouldn't be the automated feel that I get with predictable distances

AZChristian- same memory, we must be almost right. 

Edited July 31, 2019 by enoughcats

[Quilt Fairy]

2 hours ago, AZChristian said:

I may be wrong, but didn't they have it one year where the contestants had to go up the salmon ladder on one side, then go over to the other side and grab a different bar at that top level and do it down?

You may be thinking of stage 2 at the finals.  They have done salmon ladder variations there such as the one you describe.  

[Nonja]

9 hours ago, ClareWalks said:

Some folks offered different options but I think "all women who make it to the 8th obstacle advance" would be more fair than this setup. Might be 3 from one city, one from another. It'd even out more and be less patronizing to us gals.

This would be a way better idea. It would still be a little unfair to the guys, but less patronizing to the women by far. 

I really wish the Cake Ninja had a better name because I like him, but its suuuch a dumb name. Also it gets me confused with the cheesecake guy from last year.

12 hours ago, enoughcats said:

This year, I'm going to guess that "The Kid" just doesn't photograph with any charisma showing,  Or did they just edit him to look bored?

He ALWAYS looks that way! Its so notable that its somehow both annoying and amusing. 

[healthnut]

The women killed it in this region, finally! It’s been such a drag this year with only Tianna making it to the back half and that after falling on the second obstacle. 

Again, like Atlanta, this course didn’t seem too hard. I’m shocked no one boinked their head on the Snap Back. This Power Tower continues to be underwhelming. 

Did Thomas Stillings run this year? Did I miss him?

[srpturtle80]

1 hour ago, healthnut said:

Did Thomas Stillings run this year? Did I miss him?

Nope. He had posted on his IG awhile back that he wasn’t invited to compete this year. Which I think is ridiculous. 

[Hellga]

8 minutes ago, srpturtle80 said:

Nope. He had posted on his IG awhile back that he wasn’t invited to compete this year. Which I think is ridiculous. 

Why?  He was one of the strongest competitors in the city finals the last couple years... did he offend a network exec in some way?

[realdancemom]

26 minutes ago, srpturtle80 said:

Nope. He had posted on his IG awhile back that he wasn’t invited to compete this year. Which I think is ridiculous. 

17 minutes ago, Hellga said:

Why?  He was one of the strongest competitors in the city finals the last couple years... did he offend a network exec in some way?

I don't understand this either especially since he was invited to the special skills special.

[AdorkableWitch]

On 7/30/2019 at 11:31 AM, catalogrrr said:

Yes. Daniel Gil bothers me to no end. I don't enjoy watching him succeed on the course because his personality grates on me so hard. I find myself actively rooting against him, and feeling happy whenever he fails.

Until last season he always was shown with stank face watching other ninjas. He never seemed part of the community. I am not sure how much of it is editing versus personality but he just came off as sanctimonious, especially with his religous schitck. 

[eel21788]

19 hours ago, eel21788 said:

17 hours ago, enoughcats said:

IIRC there was one time when contestants climbed up one side of the salmon ladder and then had to do a 180 and drop down the other side.

I really like your idea of varying the distances from one hop to the next.  It certainly wouldn't be the automated feel that I get with predictable distances

AZChristian- same memory, we must be almost right. 

You're both thinking of the Nationals. I want some variation of the Salmon Ladder at the City finals, so they aren't doing the same obstacle year after year. Early on, a lot of people used to go out on the Salmon Ladder. After years to build-your-own, now it is pretty benign to pretty much everyone. I'd like to see something to switch it up a little. They keep modifying other obstacles to make them different, although not necessarily harder just to keep things interesting.

Edited July 31, 2019 by eel21788

[Ilovepie]

7 hours ago, srpturtle80 said:

Nope. He had posted on his IG awhile back that he wasn’t invited to compete this year. Which I think is ridiculous. 

I just cant believe this! Considering the push from the show for more young competitors, I just don't understand it - he is young AND a known all-star for them. Unbelievable!

I agree that something has to be done with how they choose which women advance to the finals. I think the stupidity of the current method has been highlighted especially in the last two weeks where 2 women are going that didn't even hit the warped wall, and this week two eliminated that made it to the eighth obstacle! I personally feel the fairest would be to take the top 12 women overall based on who got the farthest the fastest, regardless of which city they competed in. I think that would result in the strongest field of women going to the finals. I also find Maggie and her stupid bow annoying, but damn, she definitely deserved to make it over the two from last week!

I was so excited to see Karsten hit a buzzer. I love his mother.

I think this was the most evenly matched power tower race. I like The Kid, but I was hoping Daniel would beat him. He is practically the poster child of why that safety pass is valuable.......

And again, now that multiple moms have made it up the wall, I hope we don't have to hear about it anymore..........

Edited July 31, 2019 by Ilovepie
Wrong obstacle!

[Fukui San]

49 minutes ago, Ilovepie said:

And again, now that multiple moms have made it up the wall, I hope we don't have to hear about it anymore..........

...Until the first pregnant mom makes it up the wall. 

“YA DID IT FOR TWO, SALLY! I SEE YOU!!!”

I don’t share the impulse to overreact to outcomes and rejigger the tourney format. Competitions sometimes have unjust, unbalanced results. The NFC can be dominant for a decade and a half. The West can have all the best basketball teams for a decade. The AL has been stronger than the NL for a little while. It happens. 

Edited July 31, 2019 by Fukui San

[Taeolas]

16 hours ago, Ilovepie said:

I personally feel the fairest would be to take the top 12 women overall based on who got the farthest the fastest, regardless of which city they competed in. I think that would result in the strongest field of women going to the finals. I also find Maggie and her stupid bow annoying, but damn, she definitely deserved to make it over the two from last week!

I disagree with that method. Because some courses are legit easier than others. Usually they're pretty good at keeping them balanced, but sometimes there's a really REALLY difficult course, or a REALLY easy course, and the next day adjustments aren't enough to balance things out. 

I'm fine wiht the Top 2 women making it through, but I'm beginning to think that a way to inflate those numbers based on success should also be in place. The Warped wall is becoming less and less of an obstacle. Maybe if they beat the 8th obstacle (so they have to beat Salmon ladder AND the next one) they automatically make it to Vegas. 

Maybe they can add a bounty for any women that complete a city course (a 10,000$ prize for beating the full city course?). 

As for the Power Tower, I'm not really liking this second tower. Not for the prize; i have no problem with the Safety Pass. But the design of the tower itself I'm not liking. The first one was wide open so  you could easily see how things were going for each ninja. 

This one has the curtain of rings around it so you can't really see what's going on when they reach the ladders. And it just finishes too quickly. I would probably have started spacing the rings out more as they did it, having maybe half the number of rings involved to slow the ninjas down a bit (force them to swing) and to make it easier to see the middle. And maybe I'd have another balance beam for the final sprint to the buzzer. 

[Ilovepie]

1 hour ago, Taeolas said:

I disagree with that method. Because some courses are legit easier than others.

I agree some are easier than others, but I still think it's more fair to award someone who got to the eighth obstacle over someone who only got to the third. I don't think there is really any totally fair way to do it other than just saying the top 12 is the top 12 and the only women getting to Vegas are the ones who legitimately made into into the top 12.

[Good Queen Jane]

Maybe the fairest way to do it is to do it id to make it cumulative for all competitors. Put a value on each obstacle (one point for completing the first obstacle through 10 points for finishing the course). The top 72 men and top 12 women based on scores from all City Finals go to Vegas. Ties are settled by fastest times. To make it really fair, all the courses should have the same obstacles, but that might get boring over 12 weeks.  

[eel21788]

16 minutes ago, Good Queen Jane said:

 To make it really fair, all the courses should have the same obstacles, but that might get boring over 12 weeks.  

Then people who run in the later cities can see which obstacles to practice when they're on the sidelines at the earlier cities.

[Hellga]

3 hours ago, eel21788 said:

Then people who run in the later cities can see which obstacles to practice when they're on the sidelines at the earlier cities.

Plus, the weather conditions can really affect the Warped Wall, making it slicker... to be really fair, you would have to have everyone run the same course on the same night, with all the obstacles being known well in advance so everyone is in the same boat.  But while that may be good sportsmanship, I dont think that would be good TV...

[realdancemom]

31 minutes ago, Hellga said:

Plus, the weather conditions can really affect the Warped Wall, making it slicker... to be really fair, you would have to have everyone run the same course on the same night, with all the obstacles being known well in advance so everyone is in the same boat.  But while that may be good sportsmanship, I dont think that would be good TV...

Yes, I was also going to mention that weather conditions could affect the outcome.  An example is the Warped Wall.  There was one city where nobody could beat the 18 ft. wall when there were competitors that were able to do it last year.