S15.E10: Week 10

[chocolatine]

5 hours ago, Just Carol said:

Also, as a Jewish person, I am increasingly uncomfortable with proclamations here from Christians about all sorts of things.

Same here. From my perspective, Luke is a controlling, unintelligent hypocrite with a bad temper, regardless whose teachings he's claiming to follow.

3 hours ago, Nika said:

When you have your own business/ partners or a good rapport with your boss, I believe it to be possible to quit your job for a while. OR if you have some savings and simply can afford not to work for a while. I could do that as I run my small business and have a pretty flexible schedule. It is 4 months only, right ? I have some savings so if I really wanted, I could go it and my business would not suffer a bit / I could outsource it to my partner for a short period.

You are making a case in @Mabinogia's point, because most people don't have as flexible a working arrangement as you. People who are serious about advancing their careers need to put in the work. Many careers these days are much more demanding than the traditional 9-5, and especially when you're in your 20s starting out, you have to prove yourself. Believe me, none of the young masters/PhD grads I've hired over the years would even consider taking several months off to be on a frivolous reality TV show after the years of hard work they've put in to get where they are. 

Edited July 21, 2019 by chocolatine

[dirtypop90]

3 hours ago, nittanycougar said:

Thanks Nika.  I guess we are going to see this more and more on the Bachelor franchise.  I feel like Peter might be more genuine since he flies for a major airline.  He has put years of hard training into his profession and is probably more intelligent than 90 percent of the guys on the show. That reminds me more of Travis, who was a doctor.

According to Rachel's public listing on the Texas bar, she works with a Miami law firm in the practice of entertainment law.  It sounds like she has dumped the idea of being a media personality.

Peter tried acting until 2014, assuming this is him:  https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1433813/ . He does not come off as very intelligent to me.

Peter just became a pilot last year and immediately dropped it to be on the bachelorette.  Doesn't sound like his dream job.

Tyler tried professional football.  It didn't work out.  He joined the family business while modeling in Miami.  

Luke perhaps only signed up for Hannah.  No one else.  

Edited July 21, 2019 by dirtypop90

[aradia22]

Quote

Apropos of nothing, Peter really has no ass.

Straight boys, even the ones who work out a lot, rarely do. It's a frequent source of disappointment for me.

[dirtypop90]

1 minute ago, aradia22 said:

Straight boys, even the ones who work out a lot, rarely do. It's a frequent source of disappointment for me.

Athletes do, particularly football players.  Maybe all the running?

[Mabinogia]

17 minutes ago, dirtypop90 said:

Athletes do, particularly football players.  Maybe all the running?

I am particularly fond of baseball asses. I think I would be considered an ass woman. I love a guy with a nice bubble going on back there. lol 

[dirtypop90]

1 hour ago, Mabinogia said:

I am particularly fond of baseball asses. I think I would be considered an ass woman. I love a guy with a nice bubble going on back there. lol 

Same, though it also makes me so jealous because I don't have one! LOL

[RealHousewife]

I don't really care for a particularly large butt on a guy for some reason, though I do notice if it's got a cuter shape. 😂 Maybe I associate a very round backside as stereotypically feminine. I know a lot of women who like bubble butts just as much as men do though. I love toned arms more than anything. 

[StatisticalOutlier]

On 7/19/2019 at 5:15 PM, PhysNerd said:

Christians believe that sex is between a man and woman in the confines of marriage. Having premarital sex is considered adultery because you are having sex with someone who could potentially be someone else's spouse. 

You mean like someone else's spouse at the time you're having sex with them?  Is this a clever way to have it never happen because it's impossible to prove a negative?  It's not like there's a certificate of unmarriedness a person can show.  But then you wouldn't be able to marry anyone, either, unless bigamy is okay. 

.

21 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

I don't find Luke attractive in the slightest, though I guess I see why others would. He has way too much tension in his jaw and there is something weird in the shape of his face, like it's a moonface or something. 😉

I wouldn't know, because I can't get past those damn eyebrows.  What are they?

I think all of the final four are zeros in the looks department. 

.

15 hours ago, xtwheeler said:

It is entirely possible that Hannah grew up in church like I did that celebrated same-sex marriages starting in the '80s, did passionate abortion clinic defense to defend a woman's GOD-given right to exercise her free will in consultation with her god,

I guess it's possible, but I'd be shocked if that's the case.

.

5 hours ago, nittanycougar said:

Thanks Nika.  I guess we are going to see this more and more on the Bachelor franchise.  I feel like Peter might be more genuine since he flies for a major airline.  He has put years of hard training into his profession and is probably more intelligent than 90 percent of the guys on the show. That reminds me more of Travis, who was a doctor.

But Travis became a TV talk show host.  True, he's playing a doctor on TV, but still.  His bio on the website for his show doesn't mention that he still practices medicine, but it does say in addition to hosting his TV show, he's authored books called "The Lose Your Belly Diet" and "The Lean Belly Prescription."

It does make me wonder about his right reasonsness.

[nittany cougar]

4 hours ago, dirtypop90 said:

Peter tried acting until 2014, assuming this is him:  https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1433813/ . He does not come off as very intelligent to me.

Peter just became a pilot last year and immediately dropped it to be on the bachelorette.  Doesn't sound like his dream job.

Tyler tried professional football.  It didn't work out.  He joined the family business while modeling in Miami.  

Luke perhaps only signed up for Hannah.  No one else.  

Flying an airplane for a major airline requires a lot of  training hours in an airplane, classroom training, and simulator time.  Pilots have to handle very sophisticated equipment and memorize flight manuals for particular aircraft.   It requires a fair amount of intelligence and spatial skills.  Peter may not be flying currently, but he put years into his pilot training.  Delta doesn't just let any schmoe fly their planes.

Edited July 21, 2019 by nittanycougar

[Nika]

4 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Same here. From my perspective, Luke is a controlling, unintelligent hypocrite with a bad temper, regardless whose teachings he's claiming to follow.

You are making a case in @Mabinogia's point, because most people don't have as flexible a working arrangement as you. People who are serious about advancing their careers need to put in the work. Many careers these days are much more demanding than the traditional 9-5, and especially when you're in your 20s starting out, you have to prove yourself. Believe me, none of the young masters/PhD grads I've hired over the years would even consider taking several months off to be on a frivolous reality TV show after the years of hard work they've put in to get where they are. 

I disagree. Depends on the career and priorities. Deciding to take half a year off your work doesn't mean that you are a slacker, even if you want to take time off just to travel. I would never participate in this show but I said I could. And it doesn't mean I have a terrible career. I have my MA, and I worked to get it, at present I have my own small business and I do really wanted, I could do that and I would still have passive income. I simply have some freedom of choice in my life. That's all. And I am not laser-focused on "grinding" . I believe everyone defines what success means to them . To me it means some sort of freedom, doing something that you like while still having a  choice. I am not trading my time for money. And many more successful people than me could take 6 months off if they only wanted. And then come back to their careers, just like Rachel Lindsay did (as one of the posters said, she did come back to her career initially).

But this topic is bigger than this discussion. 🙂 It is about priorities in life. For me, a high position with a big corporation doesn't cut it. For 99% of people it is a dream, it gives them significance and they are willing to work their asses off. Everyone is different. 

Ps I admit that there are some jobs that don't allow it. But my friend, who's a cardiologist, recently took 3 months off just to travel in Asia. Everyone was shocked, I wasn't. When you are on maternity leave you do the same thing. You quit for a while, you go back. And I disagree with the argument that having a baby is more important that f.ex. travelling OR taking part in Bachelor to find true love (naive but still OK). I hate reasoning based on societal conditioning. For her traveling was as good a reason as having a baby for others.

Edited July 21, 2019 by Nika

[Just Carol]

1 hour ago, RealHousewife said:

I don't really care for a particularly large butt on a guy for some reason, though I do notice if it's got a cuter shape. 😂 Maybe I associate a very round backside as stereotypically feminine. I know a lot of women who like bubble butts just as much as men do though. I love toned arms more than anything. 

Me, too, same!  Toned arms.  Peter does not have much upper body.  Some prefer that "streamlined" look, but I prefer to see more musculature.  Not butts, though.

[Nika]

8 hours ago, Just Carol said:

Also, as a Jewish person, I am increasingly uncomfortable with proclamations here from Christians about all sorts of things.

Just Carol, I also look forward to the end of the discussion on religion. I kept skimming the related comments but they didn't make me feel uncomfortable. They are referring to the episode without claims of any sort...

What exactly made you uncomfortable? 

[aradia22]

Quote

I don't really care for a particularly large butt on a guy for some reason, though I do notice if it's got a cuter shape. 😂 Maybe I associate a very round backside as stereotypically feminine. I know a lot of women who like bubble butts just as much as men do though. I love toned arms more than anything. 

I mean, I'm not looking for anything all that juicy. But something shapely or toned is nice. I'm with you on arms. I watched that scene where Tyler gave her the massage and was, like, yup, I get why he's inspired so much... interest. 

But if you want to be ruined, just look up some gay Broadway actors/dancers. I'm particularly fond of Charlie Williams and Constantine Rousouli right now. Who says you can't have it all?

[leighdear]

Luke attended 2 different private, Christian colleges, but no info on if he managed to graduate.  He seems very uneducated to me. 

He's listed on the show as an "Import/Export Manager".  I thinks that code for him working the warehouse at Pier 1.  

[Mabinogia]

8 minutes ago, aradia22 said:

I'm with you on arms. I watched that scene where Tyler gave her the massage and was, like, yup, I get why he's inspired so much... interest. 

I have a weird forearm fetish. There was a guy I worked with, office so button up shirt and tie deal. He would roll up his sleeves and OMG I would totally swoon. A nice, toned forearm makes me weak in the knees. Tyler has very nice forearms and upper arms, and shoulders. The boy is nicely put together is what I'm saying. lol He also kind of reminds me of the guy from work, so I was predisposed to liking him. 

[OnceSane]

The debate on Christianity is getting a little heated, please move on.  Remember, everyone is allowed to express their opinions even if they differ from yours.  Thanks!

[nutty1]

16 hours ago, nittanycougar said:

Flying an airplane for a major airline requires a lot of  training hours in an airplane, classroom training, and simulator time.  Pilots have to handle very sophisticated equipment and memorize flight manuals for particular aircraft.   It requires a fair amount of intelligence and spatial skills.  Peter may not be flying currently, but he put years into his pilot training.  Delta doesn't just let any schmoe fly their planes.

He is flying again. Now and then, a fan has posted a picture of him.

[RealHousewife]

19 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

I have a weird forearm fetish. There was a guy I worked with, office so button up shirt and tie deal. He would roll up his sleeves and OMG I would totally swoon. A nice, toned forearm makes me weak in the knees. Tyler has very nice forearms and upper arms, and shoulders. The boy is nicely put together is what I'm saying. lol He also kind of reminds me of the guy from work, so I was predisposed to liking him. 

Lol! I noticed that about Tyler. He’s definitely got a body.

[b2H]

On 7/21/2019 at 8:55 AM, nittanycougar said:

According to Rachel's public listing on the Texas bar, she works with a Miami law firm in the practice of entertainment law.  It sounds like she has dumped the idea of being a media personality.

I have to wonder how difficult it is to go back to being a regular person after being the protagonist on a show like this.  I mean, honestly consider, how comfortable would you be with a lawyer who'd been on a reality show and exposed whomever she is, good, bad or indifferent, before taking on your case?  There's a certain portion of anonymity that needs to go with the legal profession.  I think she found it very difficult to go back and the practice she may've worked for before TB may've suggested she find other work.

We'll never know, but I'm certain that is a possibility.

[b2H]

On 7/21/2019 at 9:49 AM, Mabinogia said:

I think Hannah is after a broadcasting career like a host on some E Network celeb-news type show.

Nope.  I see her more of an SEC football color commentator - you know, sidelines, asking inane questions of the coach or one of the premier players - Roll Tide and all that.

[Bethanne]

On 7/19/2019 at 5:05 PM, Nika said:

Haha, I can relate and I perceived the situation the same way. The terrible uneasiness of being with someone you were taking yourself into liking. They are so enamoured with you and all you want to do is escape. I learned my lesson years ago. It is impossible and painful to be in such a situation. It gives you a short ego boost but then you feel worse because you are aware that being with this person was an attempt to feel better about yourself. And you only feel worse. It is all rooted in insecurity really. When you are secure you no longer talk yourself into liking people who like you.

For a minute there I was sure we had gone back in time and you were talking about Cassie. ;)

On 7/21/2019 at 8:22 AM, nittanycougar said:

He was just too slick and seemed like a soap opera character. The Instagram photos add to my suspicion.  I am over him and his stupid poses and faces and derpy demeanor.  

I'm totally overquoting here, but I couldn't let the moment pass and fail to quote what is now my new favorite descriptor...derpy demeanor. 

On 7/21/2019 at 10:07 AM, Just Carol said:

I share the minority view that Tyler is not good-looking from the neck up.  

Also, as a Jewish person, I am increasingly uncomfortable with proclamations here from Christians about all sorts of things.

I am looking forward to Monday's episode after which hopefully we will have lots of FUN things to dissect and talk about that do not include religious doctrine.

I know we've moved on, but I agree with you. I think part of the weariness comes from the two seasons in a row of the overtly Christian content, specifically related to the approach to sex. 

On 7/21/2019 at 1:17 PM, Mabinogia said:

I am particularly fond of baseball asses. I think I would be considered an ass woman. I love a guy with a nice bubble going on back there. lol 

Oh lord, the baseball butt. My 14 year old is a ballplayer with the protoypical baseball body and adorable dimples and I am weary already of the female attention he generates. 

23 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

I have a weird forearm fetish. There was a guy I worked with, office so button up shirt and tie deal. He would roll up his sleeves and OMG I would totally swoon. A nice, toned forearm makes me weak in the knees. 

Two words...Harvey Specter. 

[Mabinogia]

16 minutes ago, Bethanne said:

Two words...Harvey Specter. 

Oh yeah, that's the stuff! I'm a sucker for that rolled up sleeve look. The rest of him is not so bad either. Why can't we get someone like that for Bachelor? Oh right, he'd have better things to do with his life than go on this show. lol 

[antfitz]

On 7/21/2019 at 8:16 AM, Nika said:

Well, of course Tyler is the ultimate wrong reasons guy. He was a model from what I learned and he wants to advance his career. I wasn't surprised at all to find out about that. Aren't most of them like that? Everybody with a job that has to do with social media is like that. There were a math teacher guy, Mike (he is in banking?), Luke S ( political consultant?)and I think they were there to actually find so-called love. The rest of them, well. I thought Peter as a pilot with a career not based on the number of likes was there also for love but he seems to be a bit of fame-whore I think. Remains to be seen after the show. 

Rachel Lindsay no longer practises law so I think she also was aspiring to have a media career after all. That's a shame because I would respect her more if she remained who she was before the show maybe with occasional media appearances related to her field (law) , not only bachelorette reviews etc.

In my  opinion, Rachel  wasn't very attractive.  Not good for media.

[antfitz]

I have to admit, I haven't watched but a couple episodes of this show.  I think Hannah comes off like a skank, but then I thought Ariei was skank and I think almost everybody that goes on is.

 I saw tonight's episode. Hey Hannah, The fantasy suite is all about sex.

[antfitz]

11 hours ago, b2H said:

Nope.  I see her more of an SEC football color commentator - you know, sidelines, asking inane questions of the coach or one of the premier players - Roll Tide and all that.

I agree.

[antfitz]

When this franchise 1st began,  we all kind of believe that it was looking for  Love, but now we realized that everybody is just looking for a media job. It is like what I read about in the seventies, the show called the dating game; It wasn't a dating show it was a way to get their face and names in the media. Producers watched that show like crazy to pick  people.  It was merely considered a showcase.

[OldButHappy]

On 7/20/2019 at 7:17 AM, JudyObscure said:

Saint Paul warned Christians that their marriages will be rocky if they're "unequally yoked."

I'm happier single....and that's no yoke.

🙂

[nittany cougar]

True Antfitz, in recent times, the contestants had media careers after the show.  I am trying to recall who had normal (non entertainment) jobs.  Of the top of my head,  I recall Ben, Ashley, and Sean.  I didn't watch Byron or Jillian.  I think they are both TV hosts now.  As I recall,  Byron was on fishing shows and Jillian in home improvement.

I think that the show is better when the lead is not a media or entertainment industry type.  I cannot take it seriously if there is an actor or model lead saying they plan to settle down and have a family with one of the contestants.  Of course an actor or model is not going to settle down in Dallas or Denver or someplace (  to quote SNL's "Bland Man" spoof of Ben).

I don't want to watch someone "fake it"  for two months.  There are aplenty of fictional dramas to choose from that are honest about being fiction.

And although I know that many of the contestants are there for exposure, some really are there to meet long term partner.  Rebecca is engaged and appears to be headed for marriage with her F1.  That was only a year ago.

Edited July 24, 2019 by nittanycougar

[HaaCHOO]

On 7/23/2019 at 12:36 AM, antfitz said:

It is like what I read about in the seventies, the show called the dating game; It wasn't a dating show it was a way to get their face and names in the media. Producers watched that show like crazy to pick  people.  It was merely considered a showcase.

So true!  I'm 79, so I enjoyed The Dating Game back in the day.  It's been fun all these decades seeing the wannabees who did become stars.  Tom Selleck comes to mind and Steve Martin.

[dleighg]

On 7/23/2019 at 2:36 AM, antfitz said:

It is like what I read about in the seventies, the show called the dating game; It wasn't a dating show it was a way to get their face and names in the media. Producers watched that show like crazy to pick  people.  It was merely considered a showcase.

I was a naive kid in the 70s. I had NO IDEA!

[shouldbedancing]

Why do the producers keep allowing Luke to come back?

I was kinda with Luke... if he was having a conversation about shared values. It was a conversation they should have already had. But then it went off the rails.

[halkatla]

I can´t stand Hannah or Luke, they are both extremely annoying, however, I feel sorry for Luke I don´t think he´s evil. Hannah is so pathetic but I think she handles some things really well. Once in a while she screams and cries for the right reasons.

I am in the minority obviously with the way I see her other relationships. After the hometown date I think Peter is head over heals in love with her. His family implied that he had a history of going crazy over girlfriends and they seemed really worried for him. After watching that I´m afraid for him if he isn´t the F1. He seems so suave and cool, but then with his family they were all on edge and warning Hanna that if she didn´t pick him he would loose it. And he looked deliriously in love. I don´t see how he could be faking it.

Tyler just can´t mean a word he says! That would be shocking. He is the hottest guy there, and really nice and likable otherwise too, so I would love to see him as the bachelors. It´s the first contestant in a long while that I actually want to see as the lead.

Luke is a weird person in every way and I don´t think he´s really hurt after this. I don´t think his feelings work the way other people´s feeling work. I hope he will be happy someday, poor thing. And Hanna too.

[Alexander Pope]

On 7/15/2019 at 9:00 PM, thehepburn said:

I know Greek mythology too and that line did give me pause for a sec but I believe the more common origin that Aphrodite was born from the foam off the coast of Cynthera.

It's commonly known that Aphrodite was married to Hephastus, which would mean that they were committing incest if she is indeed Zeus's daughter.

The foam off the coast of Cythera came from Uranus's genitals after his son Cronos castrated him and threw them into the sea.  Another origin story says that Aphrodite was the daughter of Zeus and Dione (I think that's why Hera didn't like Aphrodite?).  

[Kerri Johnson]

On ‎7‎/‎18‎/‎2019 at 5:16 PM, Nika said:

Oh my! I am writing from Europe so maybe I see things differently than you guys but if anyone says that Hannah is a role model of any sort.... This is rich! 

I don't see many qualities in this girl to be honest. She is just an average, fun-loving simpleton. She is not graceful, not well-spoken, not particularly intelligent, not secure, maddingly inconsistent, she doesn't even question herself! Zero awareness whatsover! What were the qualities she was looking for in a future husband? Does she even know? Of course I am basing my opinion only on her portrayal in this show so I might be wrong about her. 

She is supposed to be a role model because she had sex with Peter (I am a modern, liberated woman! I have sex! I am looking for a husband but I might as well sleep with someone I have no interest in just because...well he is a "safe option" and will not reject me! And he said he loves me! I don't like him that much but I might as well string him along to build up my ego) then defended herself to another guy (this is my body!!! I lusted after this one for so long and was dry-humping him in the second episode but when he expressed his views on sex, I shamed him for having an opinion! Suddenly I am a fierce feminist, a good Christian and God loves me! And my husband would never question me, no matter if I sleep around! I am a feminist, remember? Cosmo for everyone! ) and set boundries with another guy (I want to be respected! I really want to have sex with you and this is what I want. But to be honest, I am just freaking scared that you just want to sleep with me and use me, I feel unwrothy of you so better not risk).

What a mess of a woman. I am 29 but I swear I was more aware than her being 24. I can relate to her insecurities but why isn't she authentic? She should friend zone Peter, discuss and resolve the issue with Luke as an adult and go for it with Tyler. That would be a great example!  

What is really grating is the way she handled herself in all these situations. She didn't tell Tylor why she was afraid to trust him (showing vulnerability and expressing her insecurities would be a great example), she didn't even try to work things out with Luke (she just got pissed and reacted like a spoiled brat and her responses were conditioned by what Cosmo/magazines want her to be) and with Peter she wasn't honest (of course she doesn't have any romantic feelings for him, it would be a great thing if she let him down easily instead of pretending that there is something there). 

Not a fan of this bachelorette. She is everything but real. She always runs away from what she feels and wants just because she is so damn insecure. This is supposed to be a strong woman? How?  I see a weak girl afraid of showing her vulnerability and risking rejection. She goes for what is safe. And she seeks validation from guys. Am I pretty enough? Do you really love me? Are you sure? The only thing she asks for is a guy who is slightly below her level (not equal or higher like Tyler, no, too scary) who says he loves her. That's all.

Wow, you ripped Hannah a new one.

This is exactly who she is and why I can't stand her as Bachelorette. All the she is "strong" people are wrong. Beautifully said/

[nittany cougar]

Your post is so insightful, Nika.  The sad thing is that the show sells the contestants on a certain idea of themselves, and they start to believe it.  Then we are supposed to believe how beautiful and special they are because Chris Harrison said so.  

Hannah's idea of strong is to be loud and opinionated and obnoxious.  No one wants to hear that Instagram inspiration garbage.  I feel so sorry for these Bachelor women who are caught up in making an image for themselves on social media.  They are so desperate for attention and approval. 

I think Hannah should get off social media and develop her real life skills. No one is looking for her advice, except maybe some pageant wannabes.

[DEL901]

1 hour ago, nittanycougar said:

Your post is so insightful, Nika.  The sad thing is that the show sells the contestants on a certain idea of themselves, and they start to believe it.  Then we are supposed to believe how beautiful and special they are because Chris Harrison said so.  

Hannah's idea of strong is to be loud and opinionated and obnoxious.  No one wants to hear that Instagram inspiration garbage.  I feel so sorry for these Bachelor women who are caught up in making an image for themselves on social media.  They are so desperate for attention and approval. 

I think Hannah should get off social media and develop her real life skills. No one is looking for her advice, except maybe some pageant wannabes.

I think Hannah's special problem is that she didn't end up with anyone and not because, like Brad, she chose herself, she chose loser #1, Luke, then loser #2, Jed.  When she had to ditch both of them, she tried to pick Tyler, having mistaken his kindness (both on the show, Social Media and ATFR) for interest in her.  She forgot that the show finished months ago, and he's emotionally moved on.  

But she feels humiliated that apparently "a coffee" meant just that and now he's dating someone else which means maybe she isn't so special after all.  He didn't sit around waiting and hoping.  He wasn't allowed to date (publicly) until after their episodes aired, but I doubt he was sitting at home with his fingers crossed that she'd come to her senses and choose him.  Even Mesnick and Arie came to the realization that they'd made a mistake and broke up with their F1.  Hannah's realizations and breakups (both Luke and Jed) were forced on her by the bad behaviour of her chosen ones.  

As has been said before, she needs to work on herself before she jumps into yet another relationship.

Edited August 12, 2019 by DEL901