S07.E08: Miss Understood

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

Holmes and Watson search for an ulterior motive when Cassie Lenue, a brilliant young criminal they helped put in prison, seeks their help in solving a murder.

Promo:

Original air date: 7/11/19

[shapeshifter]

On 7/8/2019 at 2:22 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Promo:
https://youtu.be/e4AcV9naoYc

Love this exchange:

   [GUEST STAR TO HOLMES]: You have trust issues.
   [SHERLOCK]: I You have truth issues.

If anyone ever again lobs the "trust issues" manipulative remark at me, I will be sure to try out the, "No, I have truth issues" response.

Edited July 13, 2019 by shapeshifter
Sherlock said "You" not "I"

[johntfs]

I'm really looking forward to this episode.  The only thing that might make it more awesome that it currently is in my mind is if Cassie kills somebody with a sword.  I miss my Into the Badlands.

[paigow]

3 hours ago, johntfs said:

I'm really looking forward to this episode.  The only thing that might make it more awesome that it currently is in my mind is if Cassie kills somebody with a sword.  I miss my Into the Badlands.

[ZoqFotPik]

I always hoped they would bring Cassie back. Hope they answer some of the questions from her first appearance. 

[possibilities]

Hooboy. The show is going for a real tonal shift in its final season.

We didn't get to see the shenanigans Sherlock had to do to pay Everyone.

They haven't done a single thing to follow up on Gregson's shooting or Odin's vigilante initiative.

They had the expected arrivals from the opening scene turn around and go home without ever showing their faces.

It's like they want to introduce but not follow up on anything, and instead are introducing this nonsense with Cassie and Sherlock bonding in a heartwarming manner.

[LennieBriscoe]

I can see a younger Jonny Lee Miller's joining the Mile-High Club,  but not a younger Sherlock Holmes. At least,  not without certain precautions.

Another jarring note, to me: When Sherlock flippantly invoked the hallowed name of "The Woman" in his referring to Cassie with a smirky "She's no Moriarty."

I thought for sure at the end Holmes was about to hand Cassie one of those DNA testing forms. But no,  the show went for an inauthentic "Let's pick out names!" pseudo-father-daughter "moment."

Clearly,  the ostensible main plot about  "baby formula" was inconsequential.

[thuganomics85]

Oh, shit, Cassie's back?  They certainly seem to be bringing back some random familiar faces this season!  She did make things interesting and I did enjoy the interactions between her and Sherlock, but I was kind of with Joan about the whole Moriarty comparisons, because even after the heartfelt-liking ending, I still think that could be the path she'll head down towards.

Every time I think a case can't surprise me, I then find out that apparently illegal baby formula is not only a thing, but has even created criminal enterprises and investigations that could go alongside the biggest drug wars.  Hell, maybe The Wire would have gone from being an A+ to an A++ show if it was all about baby formula!  Or how much more awesome would Breaking Bad have been if Walter White was making illegal baby formula instead of meth?!!

While I get that they can't blow through all of the main arcs too quickly, it is jarring how they've shoved Odin and Gregson's into the background these past few episodes.

[shapeshifter]

10 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Every time I think a case can't surprise me, I then find out that apparently illegal baby formula is not only a thing, but has even created criminal enterprises and investigations

I am 99% sure that there is an old L&O episode that had a pyramid scheme of Moms selling baby formula, but I can't find it.

ETA: I found the original True Crime version of the baby formula pyramid scheme: nytimes.com/interactive/2018/05/02/magazine/money-issue-baby-formula-crime-ring.html
I still think there may have been a L&O-verse version of the story, but maybe not.

Edited July 12, 2019 by shapeshifter

[Mermaid Under]

Quote

I didn't like super-grifter sociopath Mina character - and although it goes without saying she will be back, I'm not thrilled about it. I can already tell you how the next episode to feature her will start. Either Gregson or Bell will let Joan know that (somehow!) super sociopath has managed to escape without a trace from prison.  Some poor red-shirt cop might die to get her next plot moving. And instead of moving on to her next mark, she will feel compelled to stay in New York and torture Sherlock, because she doesn't really just want the money, she wants intellectual stimulation.

I'm quoting myself from January of 2016 - when Miss Taken, the first episode with Mina aired.  I was pretty damn close, and I'll be taking calls on my tele-psychic line any day now.   I watched because time is ticking on this show, but it wasn't my favorite - either characters or plotline.

Edited July 12, 2019 by Mermaid Under

[possibilities]

I was skeeved that Sherlock thought it even made the vaguest of sense to suggest a minor "was no Moriarty" as though there was any possibility the comparison would be made.

[johntfs]

I don't what is with me this season, but I keep missing this show because I somehow forget it's on.  Arrrgghhhh!  Off to cbs.com again.

[Trey]

I did enjoy the episode and liked seeing Cassie again - that's a pretty good skill she's developed, knowing when people are lying.

But I don't know why they just ignored the main storyline.  Not too many episodes left, you would think they would concentrate mostly on that.

I think sometimes I have too much faith in the writers to tell a good story.  They are better on Elementary  than on lots of other shows but they are not perfect.

Edited July 12, 2019 by Trey

[MissLucas]

I have no strong feelings about Cassie - she just happens to fail miserably on the 'awesome scale' when compared with Justified's Loretta McCready who sets the gold standard for female teenage criminal master-mind. Of course she had been fostered by one of the most awesome female villains ever.

I was trying to be patient but during this episode I started to get mildly annoyed by Watson's hair. Lucy Liu is back to black so how much longer until Watson catches up?

[johntfs]

11 hours ago, LennieBriscoe said:

I can see a younger Jonny Lee Miller's joining the Mile-High Club,  but not a younger Sherlock Holmes. At least,  not without certain precautions.

Another jarring note, to me: When Sherlock flippantly invoked the hallowed name of "The Woman" in his referring to Cassie with a smirky "She's no Moriarty."

I thought for sure at the end Holmes was about to hand Cassie one of those DNA testing forms. But no,  the show went for an inauthentic "Let's pick out names!" pseudo-father-daughter "moment."

Clearly,  the ostensible main plot about  "baby formula" was inconsequential.

Young people, even really, really smart young people can still be impulsive/stupid/reckless.  I wouldn't mind it if Cassie stuck around as I really like the actress playing her.

I took his "She's no Moriarty" to refer to her criminal activities not that he wanted to have sex with her.

I don't know how exactly those DNA testing things work, but as I understand it, your own sample only gets you genetic makeup.  There's no master database where you learn who your parents actually are.  Presumably if she wanted to she could get some of Sherlock's DNA and send it and her own for comparison but I doubt she will.

The baby formula mod was something of a red herring but this show and others like it are known for stuff like that.  The task is to learn what's not going on to get to what is going on.

[Trey]

10 minutes ago, johntfs said:

I took his "She's no Moriarty" to refer to her criminal activities not that he wanted to have sex with her.

Yes!

[iMonrey]

I'm rubbish at remembering plots and characters from previous seasons. I don't know why - maybe because this show isn't really serialized and the characters just tend to come and go in an episodic fashion. There are very few long running arcs. I have no recollection of Cassie or the episode(s) she appeared on prior to this.

I also had trouble following the baby formula pyramid, even though it ended up being mostly a moot point.

It does appear that they have back-burnered the main arc with Reichenbach. I suppose they want to get a few last "case of the week" stories in before focusing on the Reichenbach story in the last few episodes. It's strange though because we were sort of left hanging with the impression that Sherlock would have to start working with him and there just hasn't been any interaction at all.

[Loandbehold]

Note to show: If you're going to name-check Moriarty in the final season, you damn well better be able to get Natalie Dormer for one final appearance. 

[LennieBriscoe]

42 minutes ago, johntfs said:

Young people, even really, really smart young people can still be impulsive/stupid/reckless.  I wouldn't mind it if Cassie stuck around as I really like the actress playing her.

I took his "She's no Moriarty" to refer to her criminal activities not that he wanted to have sex with her. 

I don't know how exactly those DNA testing things work, but as I understand it, your own sample only gets you genetic makeup.  There's no master database where you learn who your parents actually are.  Presumably if she wanted to she could get some of Sherlock's DNA and send it and her own for comparison but I doubt she will.

The baby formula mod was something of a red herring but this show and others like it are known for stuff like that.  The task is to learn what's not going on to get to what is going on.

I took "She's no Moriarty" the same way as you. Moreover, the show subtly underscored her claim to being Sherlock's daughter by having him act rather paternally at the end. I just happen to disagree with this particular characterization premise.

[JayDub]

I'm a hardcore Elementary fan and this is one character I despise.

[basiltherat]

If we're name-checking Moriarty for one last appearance, how about one from Alfredo?!

[preeya]

On 7/8/2019 at 5:18 AM, shapeshifter said:

Love this exchange:

   [GUEST STAR TO HOLMES]: You have trust issues.
   [SHERLOCK]: I have truth issues.

If anyone ever again lobs the "trust issues" manipulative remark at me, I will be sure to try out the, "No, I have truth issues" response.

Actually, Sherlock said "you have truth issues"

[possibilities]

It was badly framed. If Joan had said: "you're impressed by her" or "you respect her" it would have been a better set up for the comparison to Moriarty; the way she framed it as "you like her" leaned into Sherlock's personal, not professional, feelings.

[preeya]

15 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I am 99% sure that there is an old L&O episode that had a pyramid scheme of Moms selling baby formula, but I can't find it.

I do recall an episode of L&O where they were using cans of baby formula filled with cocaine. S04E12 of SVU titled "Risk"

[theatremouse]

4 hours ago, possibilities said:

It was badly framed. If Joan had said: "you're impressed by her" or "you respect her" it would have been a better set up for the comparison to Moriarty; the way she framed it as "you like her" leaned into Sherlock's personal, not professional, feelings.

I don't recall the exact dialogue but I thought he'd just said something about Cassie's intellect - specifically using a phrase I assume he'd previously used about The Woman - so the comparison to Moriarty was a direct jumping point from his having used that particular phrase. It played that way to me.

[auntiemel]

6 hours ago, theatremouse said:

I don't recall the exact dialogue but I thought he'd just said something about Cassie's intellect - specifically using a phrase I assume he'd previously used about The Woman - so the comparison to Moriarty was a direct jumping point from his having used that particular phrase. It played that way to me.

Yes, he said she had a "singular intellect."

[MisterGlass]

I just finished rewatching the fourth season on Hulu, so had a recent refresher on Cassie.  Her first episode was okay, but she was already an experienced con artist and suspected murderer.  I can buy her being fascinated with Sherlock, but I don't see him developing an emotional connection with her this quickly.  She may have the potential to reform, but I don't see him taking her on as a project.  Obsession is a bad foundation for a mentor/mentee relationship.  I could see him finding someone else to be her mentor.

[shapeshifter]

8 hours ago, theatremouse said:

I don't recall the exact dialogue

Here's the unvarnished closed captioning text:

Quote

How is she today? 
Obviously, it's hard to tell if anything she says is true.
There was a moment this morning she seemed genuine.
I wonder if sometimes she gets tired of lying.
So, in spite of everything-- all of her lies, all the bad things she does-- you like her, don't you? 
She possesses a singular intellect. It would be a shame to see it go to waste.
And you have a soft spot for singular intellects.
(laughs) 
She's no Moriarty.
Not yet.

My reflections:

• I cannot recall this Sherlock ever being lascivious or even flirtatious, or ever making an off color joke that in any way objectifies women. 
  But for many other characters similar to him on other shows, this dialogue could point to a future physical attraction between him and Cassie, so I understand why some here were disturbed/squicked-out by it.
   
• I'm guessing "She's no Moriarty" "Not yet" refers to Cassie's potential to be a criminal mastermind.
   
• Is there any chance that Moriarty is Cassie's mother?

[MisterGlass]

A relationship would be squicky for me.  I see this as gauging her potential as ally or enemy.

She's no Moriarty, but I'd also say she's no Kitty.

[dubbel zout]

4 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

• Is there any chance that Moriarty is Cassie's mother?

Good lord, I hope not. That's a level of soap I want this show to avoid completely. It's bad enough Cassie suggested Sherlock might be her father. UGH.

[MissLucas]

6 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

• Is there any chance that Moriarty is Cassie's mother?

I doubt it. The show's already been down that road in season two with Kayden Fuller. 

I think Cassie's an attempt to recreate the Kitty dynamics. Which is a very bad idea since Kitty's story was one of the most perfect arcs this show has ever produced.

[Trey]

28 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

I think Cassie's an attempt to recreate the Kitty dynamics. Which is a very bad idea since Kitty's story was one of the most perfect arcs this show has ever produced.

Exactly.  She's definitely no Moriarty and she's no Kitty either.

I wonder if Cassie is even going to show up again in the remaining episodes.

[paigow]

If there is a follow up episode titled Miss Independant, Kelly Clarkson will be a long lost sister of somebody.....

[ferjy]

Christ, they're getting heavier and heavier with the "epilogues". They even started with a bloody epilogue! The whole first half of the show was all 3 characters reciting details for us as if they were reading from cue cards. They're so awkward. They make the cases too detail ridden and circuitous, then have to explain it all to us. I prefer looking for the clues not having it spoon fed to us.

[ferjy]

On 7/12/2019 at 12:56 PM, Loandbehold said:

Note to show: If you're going to name-check Moriarty in the final season, you damn well better be able to get Natalie Dormer for one final appearance. 

I thought that might be exactly what they're doing, with that mention. If not, it's a bad tease. 😒

[ferjy]

On 7/12/2019 at 7:11 PM, JayDub said:

I'm a hardcore Elementary fan and this is one character I despise.

13 hours ago, MisterGlass said:

She's no Moriarty, but I'd also say she's no Kitty.

I didn't like the Cassie character either. It doesn't help that the actress is pretty bad, whereas Ophelia Lovibond was very good as Kitty. And it was a much better arc.

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, ferjy said:

On July 12, 2019 at 11:56 AM, Loandbehold said:

Note to show: If you're going to name-check Moriarty in the final season, you damn well better be able to get Natalie Dormer for one final appearance. 

I thought that might be exactly what they're doing, with that mention. If not, it's a bad tease

But if she's not available, they may figure that they should at least pay a little homage to the character, hence the line: "She's no Moriarty."

[dargosmydaddy]

7 hours ago, ferjy said:

Christ, they're getting heavier and heavier with the "epilogues". They even started with a bloody epilogue! The whole first half of the show was all 3 characters reciting details for us as if they were reading from cue cards. They're so awkward. They make the cases too detail ridden and circuitous, then have to explain it all to us. I prefer looking for the clues not having it spoon fed to us.

I think you mean "exposition," but I whole-heartedly agree! Very clunky!

[ferjy]

3 minutes ago, dargosmydaddy said:

I think you mean "exposition," but I whole-heartedly agree! Very clunky!

Yes, I was being facetious with “epilogue” because that’s what they seem like throughout the episode. 

[Loandbehold]

7 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

But if she's not available, they may figure that they should at least pay a little homage to the character, hence the line: "She's no Moriarty."

By this time in the season, they should know whether she's available. If she's not, then pay homage in the final episode. You can have Sherlock tell Watson that he'll meet her in London, but first he's going to check why Moriarty contacted him (or some other reason).

[Marc Nava]

Ms Liu is kind of upset throughout the episode...  and btw "Cassie" is not to likable. Love the bonding at the end (call me a softy).

[kieyra]

Cassie (character and actress) are a big dud to me. 

But I can’t tell—was I supposed to believe that Sherlock might be her father?

[Ailianna]

I think you were meant to understand that it doesn't matter if Sherlock is her father or not.  What matters is what she makes of herself in the future, not what she was or might have been in the past.

[johntfs]

On 7/13/2019 at 3:04 PM, MissLucas said:

I think Cassie's an attempt to recreate the Kitty dynamics. Which is a very bad idea since Kitty's story was one of the most perfect arcs this show has ever produced.

I don't really think that it is.  A c,loser comparison to something like that would be the Shinwell story line.  In this situation, both Sherlock and Cassie are healthier, more functional people.  Sherlock is showing Cassie how she can pursue a different path but isn't pushing her or forcing her to do so.  For her part Cassie isn't filled with "daddy issues" or obsessing over Sherlock.  She clearly prefers to let him have space and to allow whatever their ultimate relationship is to take form naturally and over time.

[MisterGlass]

4 hours ago, johntfs said:

For her part Cassie isn't filled with "daddy issues" or obsessing over Sherlock.

I disagree.  While not obsessed in a romantic sense, she's fixated on him.  She spent three years in prison because of him, and right after getting out she showed up with a new lie to get his attention.  Further, she has created at least one fantasy about him as her father.  This may have been shared to taunt Watson, but it is a story that she came up with, and had in mind.  She also said she'd been researching him.

[theatremouse]

5 hours ago, kieyra said:

Cassie (character and actress) are a big dud to me. 

But I can’t tell—was I supposed to believe that Sherlock might be her father?

I thought the final scene confirmed that he's not - or at least that she has no reason to believe he is and the story to Watson was a lie. If that story were plausible then her comments to him about if the envelope IDed her parents would make no sense for her to say. They still hammered the paternal-style relationship between the two - because clunky - but she was bullshitting to Watson.

[Rambler]

7 hours ago, kieyra said:

Cassie (character and actress) are a big dud to me. 

But I can’t tell—was I supposed to believe that Sherlock might be her father?

I don't think so. At the end of the story, Joan told her something like "Nah I don't believe a word of what you just said." And Cassie gave her a smirk like she was saying "I didn't think that you would fall for that, but I gave it my best shot”.

[Cranberry]

I thought it was fairly clear that Cassie was joking when she said Sherlock was her father. Joan didn't buy it, and Cassie smirked and dropped it because she was just messing with Joan anyway.

Also never even considered the idea that Sherlock was in any way attracted to Cassie. He was comparing her intellect (unfavorably) and propensity for "evil" to Moriarty's. 

[Magnumfangirl]

The first Cassie episode was one of the best, but this one was one of the worst.  Sherlock still thinks she killed Agent Underhill, but he buddies up with her at the end of the episode?  WTF?

[kieyra]

5 hours ago, Magnumfangirl said:

The first Cassie episode was one of the best, but this one was one of the worst.  Sherlock still thinks she killed Agent Underhill, but he buddies up with her at the end of the episode?  WTF?

Yeah, it was tonally all over the place.