S11.E15: Life is Not a Cabaret

[tranquilidade]

I'm not sure Lu Anne can be humiliated.  She is like teflon, because she writes the rules and justifies everything.  I don't believe Lu Anne is trying to get by obstacles as much as she is trying to go around them, reinventing herself, trying to detract and deflect from what is in my opinion a serious mental condition that will probably end badly.

[Yours Truly]

11 minutes ago, tranquilidade said:

I think they all want to tear one another down and Lu Anne is just an easier target than some.  She is really a troubled and disturbed soul in my view.  She has little connection to the real world and emotions of people around her and creates her own universe where she writes all the rules and is always justified to do what she desires.  I can't imagine what kind of a parent she was.  She is remarkably self involved and is in fact friend to no one but herself, and self destructive at that.  In my opinion, she sees people as vehicles to facilitate her goals and when they don't comply they are jealous, hateful, mean etc.  She is to a great extent impervious to their nastiness, forgiving the deepest and meanest slights to move on with the show.  She is another narcissist.

Her pursuit of cabaret acting in light of a struggle with alcohol shows a complete lack of acceptance of truth. She lives in a fantasy world of her own creation and people around her are just players in her manufactured drama she calls her life.

I guess I ain't that mad cause that's how she survives and unless she's chewing you up, spitting you out, ruining your life in the process then to each their own.  Being a draining human being who isn't as caring as you would like is very different from screeching, yelling, attacking, and being downright awful to another person. I know bad behavior is never okay but Lu's brand is really not that hard roll your eyes at and keep it moving. Too me it isn't anything sinister that a simple amount of decision making can't fix. 

Lu has character flaws, she's made mistakes, and yes like a lot of people have done things to hurt others feelings, or make someone feel bad but I've never seen her decidely go out of her way to deliberately cause harm to someone else. I guess what I'm saying is that she isn't a catastrophe that you can't avoid if you really wanted to. 

Her relationship with her children is just that. HER relationship with THEM. Some parents aren't text book, some aren't superheros, some have flaws that unfortunately negatively impact their children. At the end of the day it is what it is and to me the biggest taint on Lu is the unfortunate circumstances with her children. Everything else is craziness that LU has to deal with in her life. Everyone else can either choose to be there with her or not. That's the bulk of anyone else's woes with regards to the "albatross" that is Lu. 

I measure things on how destructive a person can be in MY life and whether or not I have the means to control the role they play in MY life. I would never hold Lu to a standard that I know she can't meet just because that's what I want to see from her. That's pretty stupid. You either deal with her or you don't. I don't agree with this philosophy that you get to dish out bullshit to someone because they've shown you who they are and you continue to set yourself up for a pretty foreseeable interaction then clutch pearls and have the vapors when they behave in exactly the way always behave. It's so ridiculous to me.  To me it really looks as if it's a constant set up to continuously have reasons to attack Lu. Oh hey, Lu's acting like Lu again lets be mad and yell at her. It's the same interaction over and over again. What's the point?  

[biakbiak]

35 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

Why? Because her larger than life persona really bugs them? I mean really. That's a reason to consta

It’s not like Lu is just living her life being awesome and the other women come after her. She gets in digs at all the women just as much as they do and than you add on her crazy sense of entitlement with like the massage and hair this episode and complete lack of empathy and it’s much more than just annoyance. 

[hoodooznoodooz]

The other women resent that Lu still behaves as if she is superior to them and everyone else on the planet. Despite her humiliating past two years, she still seems to think that she is superior and her needs are more important than theirs. 

[SailorGirl]

41 minutes ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

The other women resent that Lu still behaves as if she is superior to them and everyone else on the planet. Despite her Because of her humiliating past two years, she still seems to think that she is superior and her needs are more important than theirs. 

Fixed it for ya'! 😄 

[tranquilidade]

I agree with Yours Truly on the point that nothing justifies the treatment Lu received.  Even if they are right about her mistakes she has a right to live her life her way.  She does not ask for any of the advice people give her.  Her bad behavior is pretty much confined to rudeness that is in my view not really deliberate.  She makes insensitive comments without even realizing it because she has no empathy for anyone.  I don't find her as mean as the others.  None of these women know how to be friends.  They just use one another.

[Persnickety1]

On 6/13/2019 at 8:21 AM, Mindthinkr said:

Yes, they could have sent someone to fetch them, but that isn’t the point. Their point was that Lu was so far up her own butt that she didn’t read their text and bring anything back. She kept saying that she was at the beach for only 2 hours whereas the ladies clocked it more like 4. Perhaps a little drinky-poo and a nap? Then of course she had to go see the poster of herself and set it up on instagram (which she played off as “Oh look what I’ve come across” rather than the truth that she sought it out). Disingenuous with no shame about it. That didn’t end her entitlement. How dare the hairdresser want to leave and not do her hair. A crying shame that her massage felt rushed. They hired 3 masseuses. One was nice enough to at least give her a short rub down. Then hold up production and the others for dinner. What’s wrong with those people? They aren’t running on Lu time. She didn’t even care that they were running late to the AA meeting. Sonja was by the door waiting. I believe her words were something like “No judgement”. She clearly does not see anyone or anything else isimportant unless it benefits her. She’s a pompous asshole. 

Flashback to the ever-entertaining Morocco trip where The Countess ripped into Sonja and Ramona for being late to dinner and pretty much sent them back to their room without any dinner.  I remember her seething and saying something like, "This is Morocco!"  

Apparently one only has to adhere to a schedule when it's something hosted by Luann.  

She really is an insufferable asshole this season.  

[Yours Truly]

1 hour ago, biakbiak said:

It’s not like Lu is just living her life being awesome and the other women come after her. She gets in digs at all the women just as much as they do and than you add on her crazy sense of entitlement with like the massage and hair this episode and complete lack of empathy and it’s much more than just annoyance. 

What is it?

I mean, I'm honestly trying to figure out how adults allow themselves to be so put off by a person that they tell themselves it's okay to continuously attack someone. There have been a couple of assholes in my life and I've never made it a goal of mine to obliterate them. 

I get not liking people. I get not liking very unlikable people. I even get calling unlikable or even likable people out on their shit when they have done something unpleasant. What I don't get is the viciousness. But If I'm giving myself hives over someone's ability to trigger something primal in me then maybe I need to re-evalute how I interact with that person. Nothing, outside of messing with my family, children, livelihood should invoke such ridiculousness. I mean they've been around Lu long enough to know what she's about and to me it doesn't seem like even her unlikable qualities are enough to drive someone to the edge like that. 

I never said Lu never threw out any jabs. But that's all they were jabs. Lu has some pretty good antagonist traits. The smugness, the dismissiveness, the superiority. I get that and I'm sorry but I actually admire it cause it takes such a chunk out of people without even trying too hard. I use it on bullies not on vulnerable people. I'm the type that can be a mean girl, BUT I'm that way TO "mean girls" and I really see Lu in that light. (Not always but most of the time I see that as her way of keeping her balance among these haters.)  The hostility that's aimed at Lu is a whole other level completely. Especially from Beth. Sonja's shouting at Lu wasn't all that cool either. 

There's a different mania when it comes to Lu and as a person who can also walk around like a bitch that could give two fucks about you especially if you've shown your ass to me I have no problem with some of Lu's steeliness towards them. It's not like they've all been complete saints to her either. 

I do think Lu has a problem showing she gives a rats ass but considering that Beth has unloaded on her multiple times in ugly ways, Dorinda's been a sloopy aggressive twat, Tinsley a subtle stank bitch, Sonja a jealous competitor in the suitor wars who has taken her own jabs, Ramona a crazy eyes lunatic that says cutting words as easily as if she's asking someone to pass the butter. I mean, do well really expect to see some nurturing Mother Teresa attitude from Lu when it comes to reacting to these bitches? I guess that's also the part that has me wondering where these expectations of Lu come from. from the others and the audience.  

Hell I'd be hard pressed to sit at a table with these women and not have my "gives two shits" attitude be written all over my face. I mean, yeah, in general, not giving a shit about those around you isn't the nicest of qualities but come on now. She's surrounded by these harpies that have season after season of baggage with each other so I don't expect Lu to carry herself like she's their biggest champion. Previous seasons she's followed the script a bit better, but I think with the strain of the last few years she's just not up for the stretch. 

The fake "concern" always bugs me. It's only a way to get in a good position for the killshot later on down the road. I.E. "Beth's help" welp, she sure helped Lu and put herself in the prime position to air all of Lu's shit. There's always an agenda with these women and I don't fault Lu for not falling in line. 

I guess, it's that I have no patience for the idea that someone else can drive me to unacceptable behavior. Don't get me wrong I can't stand people who deliberately push people to the brink through deliberate baiting and passive aggressive antagonism (Kenya Moore style) but I don't think that's the case with Lu. She is who she is and I guess it bugs me that people demand that she not be. Go ahead and call her out and if you don't get the desired reflective result then adjust what YOU need to adjust to keep YOUR sanity don't unload on Lu expecting her to give you what you need. That's stupid and it's not fair to you or Lu. Everyone loses and they do this season after season.

I find it so absolutely dumb. Get a new focus besides Lu is a pain. 

[Yours Truly]

1 hour ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

The other women resent that Lu still behaves as if she is superior to them and everyone else on the planet. Despite her humiliating past two years, she still seems to think that she is superior and her needs are more important than theirs. 

Okay and?

Like I said, that means she's a pain to be around. I'm trying to understand the level of pandemonium these women allow themselves to reach when it comes to Lu. Yeah, I know it can be maddening but nothing some pretty basic coping skills and or tactics couldn't solve. 

Sheesh. It's comical just how cartoonish these women allow themselves to get.......Over Luann of all people. Mindboggling. 

[smores]

4 hours ago, KungFuBunny said:

Think of Luann's mantra this season of why the women are so against her.

They all want to tear her down. They are all jealous of her. Bethenny's tirade is about Bethenny projecting.

Now think back to the season of her upcoming wedding with Tom. Luann's TH shots then could be super-imposed to this season. All of the women want to tear her down. They are all jealous that she got the engagement ring and the yacht and Tom. When Bethenny went to Luann in the Berkeshires and said I think he's a bad guy and if you have any doubts you should pull out now and not marry him. Luann said the same things in her TH shot - Bethenny was projecting her own issues.

The "Tom, Tom, Tom, Tom" has been replaced by "Cabaret, Cabaret, Cabaret, Cabaret"

The wedding season, Luann said something along the lines of "I look forward in life and will wave to the women in the rearview mirror"

I see the same future as she has alienated everyone in this group, only this time she will be facing forward towards the Police Car Camera while she tries to get out of those zip ties.

Not just the season with Tom, remember how she was when her marriage to the Count fell apart? At that reunion she was all "Oh, no bigs, we separated it's all cool, next question!" And they were kind of stunned and were like, wait, he cheated on you publicly, dumped you by email and you're just breezy about it? 

2 hours ago, biakbiak said:

It’s not like Lu is just living her life being awesome and the other women come after her. She gets in digs at all the women just as much as they do and than you add on her crazy sense of entitlement with like the massage and hair this episode and complete lack of empathy and it’s much more than just annoyance. 

I think there is a perception by some that the other women are just lying in wait for something to wrong in Lu's life and then they jump out front behind the furniture and yell "AHA! Now you must feel SHAME!"  But that's not really what they are doing, from what I can see.  First, they're a group of coworkers, but part of their job is to somewhat be friends.  They have to share their lives to an extent (I think some stuff, like Victoria's DUI and racist rants as a minor should remain off limits, as should Quincy and details about Brynn.  Stating "I have my daughter this week" or "the kid is with her father in France" is one thing, but they aren't featured and I'm fine with it).  Bethenny met and married Jason on tv and so the fallout of the relationship is dealt with on tv to an extent.  Lu was publicly dating Jacques, she brought home a pretend pirate while being filmed and screwed him and tried to lie about it, so she had to explain how it impacted her relationship.  That's all part of the deal.

They meddle in each other's lives, to an extent, Heather and Bethenny helping Sonja with her businesses.  Telling Ramona she drank too much.  Telling Sonja she drank too much.  But at the end of the day, for the most part, they do all seem to care about each other.  That's how you end up with Bethenny helping to stage an intervention for Lu, who she has fought with over the years.  

It would be one thing, I think, if Lu just basically always did her own thing, showed up at cast events, and was polite and pleasant but didn't take digs at the other women, and left and went back to her own fabulous life.  She'd be self centered, yes, but whatever, she'd also be contained.  She doesn't, though, she comes in and is happy to rip others apart, she's trashed Dorinda, she's mocked Tinsley, she's gone after Bethenny.  She's being nasty to Barbara and she's gone after Ramona in the past.  She was horrible to Carole in past seasons.  She can't play "I'm fabulous and above the fray" when she's more than happy to hop down into the fray when she WANTS to.  It's either/or.  I have a sibling I can't stand, so I have almost no interaction with them, unless I'm in the same room with them.  And then I'm strictly polite, very surface social and I refuse to engage in anything that they try to do to cause an argument.  Occasionally they STILL cause an argument, which I immediately back out of. This wasn't natural behavior for me, but I finally learned that I can't get blamed for something if I'm not participating.  And now if/when it happens, our parents FINALLY go to the source to shut it down.  It took me a few decades to catch on to just not getting into the fray at all, but once I did, I realized there was no way to deny I wasn't involved.  My point? Lu can't claim immunity when she's IN the fray, which she is, pretty much all the time.  

30 minutes ago, Persnickety1 said:

Flashback to the ever-entertaining Morocco trip where The Countess ripped into Sonja and Ramona for being late to dinner and pretty much sent them back to their room without any dinner.  I remember her seething and saying something like, "This is Morocco!"  

Apparently one only has to adhere to a schedule when it's something hosted by Luann.  

She really is an insufferable asshole this season.  

This.  This is a fantastic example.  Here Lu was insufferable and rude.  Should they have come to dinner? YES.  I despise when people are late.  Lu would have been well within her rights to tell them that she'd had them leave the plates in the kitchen and dismissed the staff or that she'd had them make some sort of snacks or cheese or whatever and dinner was done.  But to send them to bed without dinner? To dismiss them back to their rooms? Nope.  She's not their keeper.  

And then when Lu does anything similar, keeping people waiting, her response is to shrug and say "So, what's the big deal?" If someone tries to explain to her, they're met with "So what? Oh, you had to wait a little bit for dinner for me? Poor baby.  It's not going to kill you"  She just doesn't care.  If you offend Lu, it's a mortal wound.  If she does something to you, well, what the fuck are you talking about, because of COURSE Lu can't cause an offense.  You're just looking to be offended by her, and really, now you're just offending Lu again.  Dammit, why did you go and do that?

[Ellee]

Sorry .. Sorry .. Sorry.  Wrong place I know but I didn't want to take the time to find a Kristen Taekman thread if there is one.

Was just at the Bravo site and there are 6 or more clips of her on there.  She isn't one of them being 'rumored to return' is she? 

[ladle]

If the roles had been reversed, nobody would have faulted Sonja for taking a swim and everyone would have accused Luann of having a fake meltdown and making everything all about herself. 

[ladle]

I'm not a Bethenny fan, but I kind of enjoy the low-key Bethenny/Tinsley friendship. 

[Ellee]

11 minutes ago, ladle said:

If the roles had been reversed, nobody would have faulted Sonja for taking a swim and everyone would have accused Luann of having a fake meltdown and making everything all about herself. 

I can hear them saying ‘It’s Sonja being Sonja’ but I’m not sure that that is what they would say about Luann at least on this season anyway.  Could it be included in a fight in the Berkshires in another season?  You betcha. 

[Natalie68]

6 hours ago, KungFuBunny said:

Think of Luann's mantra this season of why the women are so against her.

They all want to tear her down. They are all jealous of her. Bethenny's tirade is about Bethenny projecting.

Now think back to the season of her upcoming wedding with Tom. Luann's TH shots then could be super-imposed to this season. All of the women want to tear her down. They are all jealous that she got the engagement ring and the yacht and Tom. When Bethenny went to Luann in the Berkeshires and said I think he's a bad guy and if you have any doubts you should pull out now and not marry him. Luann said the same things in her TH shot - Bethenny was projecting her own issues.

The "Tom, Tom, Tom, Tom" has been replaced by "Cabaret, Cabaret, Cabaret, Cabaret"

The wedding season, Luann said something along the lines of "I look forward in life and will wave to the women in the rearview mirror"

I see the same future as she has alienated everyone in this group, only this time she will be facing forward towards the Police Car Camera while she tries to get out of those zip ties.

Having seen Lu for many years now I can't see anything to be jealous of.  Not one single thing.  

[smores]

27 minutes ago, ladle said:

If the roles had been reversed, nobody would have faulted Sonja for taking a swim and everyone would have accused Luann of having a fake meltdown and making everything all about herself. 

To me it really depends on the situation.  First, if nothing else had been going on in life and it was just a random meltdown and there were a bunch of other people around and I'd already announced my plans to swim, and I was able to look around and be like, well, there's only an hour and a half until dinner, so do you guys have this one? Ok, then I'm out and I'll see you back at the villa and I'll take the next one.  I could understand that.  And that would also be after I acknowledged that she was in a bad place and tried to talk her through it for a few minutes.  I wouldn't just roll and be like "Good Luck bitches!"

But.  Everyone has been rallying around Lu for the last couple of years to support her through all of her drama.  First the Tom cheating scandal.  Then her trip to rehab.  Then her arrest.  And then her legal mess and return rehab trip and lawsuit from her children.  And her lack of probation compliance. Etc, etc.  Maybe not in that order, but still.  They have listened to her, they have been there for her when she was drunk, they've been there for her when she was "sober" They have gone to her cabaret and gotten yelled at.  They have done a lot.  FOR Lu.  And not only does she not acknowledge it, she demands more.  She tells them they haven't done enough.  And that's a problem. 

So when Sonja had her meltdown, I don't know if it was real.  Maybe it was, I can find a situation like that to be totally overwhelming.  Truthfully, I have a very hard time traveling to all inclusive resorts in the Caribbean because of the dissonance of where I'm staying vs the people who are living on the island and employed by the property.  So I can sort of see what Sonja was saying.  At the same time, I can see how she would be just playing it up for a storyline.  Who knows.  But in either case, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect Lu to actually return a BIT of the concern and interest that people have shown to her.  The interest that she DEMANDS from others.  You can't sit there and demand to know why no one came to check on you while there were paramedics with Sonja and yet not even at least try to comfort her when she was upset.

[ladle]

28 minutes ago, smores said:

To me it really depends on the situation.  First, if nothing else had been going on in life and it was just a random meltdown and there were a bunch of other people around and I'd already announced my plans to swim, and I was able to look around and be like, well, there's only an hour and a half until dinner, so do you guys have this one? Ok, then I'm out and I'll see you back at the villa and I'll take the next one.  I could understand that.  And that would also be after I acknowledged that she was in a bad place and tried to talk her through it for a few minutes.  I wouldn't just roll and be like "Good Luck bitches!"

Oh, I get what you're saying for sure, and Luann's clearly a narcissist, and I agree they have every right to be frustrated with her, for all of the reasons you mention.  But I still felt that their response was just way over the top.  Like, don't we all have that friend/co-worker who is good for superficial conversations and to have fun with occasionally, but who is completely self-absorbed so we all just accept that it'll never be anything more than surface? 

[ladle]

On 6/12/2019 at 9:28 PM, bravofan27 said:

WHO CARES??? Let her do her thing! Hang with your friends! Damn. 

Yeah, that's pretty much where I am on Luann.

[ladle]

On 6/12/2019 at 9:38 PM, sashayshante said:

Guys. GUYS! Bethenny still gets her period! No menopause for her!

I've said it before and I'll say it again: you shouldn't need a tampon if you're that self-absorbed.

[Gem 10]

8 hours ago, tranquilidade said:

I agree that Bethenny does reach out to help others and goes way over the top in the process but I personally believe she does these things for her own gratification more than for any altruistic or for any act of friendship.  She presents herself this way as the superhero and she looks for opportunities to demonstrate this to herself and the world.  I truly believe she enjoys it, because it reinforces her belief that she is better than everyone around her.  Her reaction to the lack of appreciation in my view is  more connected to her resentment that the recipient of her superhero help is not validating this fact and actually by being indifferent or ungrateful is in fact going up against her.  I just don't understand how she could call Luanne a snake and whore in an earlier season and then suddenly care about her as a  friend enough to do the intervention.  It is more Bethenny's narcissism than anything else, just doing things to enjoy watching the self look amazing to prove to everyone with evidence that yes... I am a superhero...see look!

This is Bethennys personality. One day she is crucifying Luann in another season, and two days later she is doing something nice for her. Isn’t that like comparing a marriage?  One day you can have a fight with your husband and practically hate his guts, and then two days later he falls off the lawnmower, and you run to help him with concern.  It’s human nature to love and hate at the same time.  I don’t think that Bethenny does nice things to look the hero.  That is too obvious, but you can look at it both ways, I guess.  I myself think she is a helper without motives, but those who don’t like her will see it as not sincere.

Edited June 19, 2019 by Gem 10

[Gem 10]

7 hours ago, tranquilidade said:

I'm not sure Lu Anne can be humiliated.  She is like teflon, because she writes the rules and justifies everything.  I don't believe Lu Anne is trying to get by obstacles as much as she is trying to go around them, reinventing herself, trying to detract and deflect from what is in my opinion a serious mental condition that will probably end badly.

Teflon .. that is the funniest thing and true.  I’m still laughing.  Lu’s life .. I can’t believe she still standing and singing.  Delusional Lu.  She falls down a mountain of snow with two kids somewhere in Europe and survives.  The Count leaves her for another and she survives.  She comes to N.Y., marries Tom, he leaves her and she survives.  She gets arrested, is an alcoholic, in jail and rehab and survives.  She takes on an adventure croaking to a large audience without talent and survives.  She is Teflon.  Somebody else would have had a nervous breakdown and be in the looney bin, but Lu survives, again.  The woman is inhuman without feelings.  Maybe a robot.

Edited June 19, 2019 by Gem 10

[BckpckFullaNinjas]

6 hours ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

The other women resent that Lu still behaves as if she is superior to them and everyone else on the planet. Despite her humiliating past two years, she still seems to think that she is superior and her needs are more important than theirs. 

But they all behave like the bolded.  Tinsley is least obvious about it.  Dorinda is less obvious when she’s dry.  Ramona, Sonja — dictionary illustrations of the words entitled and smug, interchangeably. Bethenny — The “-est” of everything. Lu’s no outlier.

[ButterQueen]

9 hours ago, Yours Truly said:

And I think Lu knows this. And I think that's why she had no plans of fawning over Beth. Knowing this is what Beth wants at the expense of Lu's pride, which lets be honest Lu has short supply of these days. Lu's trying to start fresh, put some of the negative behind her,  wipe the egg off her face and bounce back while Beth is screaming at her to give her credit. Beth's need for public acknowledgment supersedes Lu's ongoing struggle to get passed the difficult obstacles in her life.. Don'tcha know?

I don't think Lu would mind giving Beth appreciation, but Beth wants that appreciation to be wrapped in Lu's humiliation and I don't care if you breathed air into The Countess and got her heart beating again. Lu ain't never gonna give you that satisfaction my dear and she shouldn't have to. That's not the kinda price you put on helping someone. But that's what our Beth requires. 

THANK YOU

[ButterQueen]

9 hours ago, tranquilidade said:

I'm not sure Lu Anne can be humiliated.  She is like teflon, because she writes the rules and justifies everything.  I don't believe Lu Anne is trying to get by obstacles as much as she is trying to go around them, reinventing herself, trying to detract and deflect from what is in my opinion a serious mental condition that will probably end badly.

Honestly, the same can be said about all the housewives.

[ButterQueen]

4 hours ago, Ellee said:

Sorry .. Sorry .. Sorry.  Wrong place I know but I didn't want to take the time to find a Kristen Taekman thread if there is one.

Was just at the Bravo site and there are 6 or more clips of her on there.  She isn't one of them being 'rumored to return' is she? 

I’d love to see her, Carole and Heather back.  My faves.

[Rosiejuliemom]

1 hour ago, ButterQueen said:

I’d love to see her, Carole and Heather back.  My faves.

The friendship between the three of them and Luann during season 6 is something I sorely miss on this show.

[LibertarianSlut]

3 hours ago, ladle said:

Luann's clearly a narcissist...Like, don't we all have that friend/co-worker who is good for superficial conversations and to have fun with occasionally, but who is completely self-absorbed so we all just accept that it'll never be anything more than surface? 

 I absolutely gravitate to this type of person because I'm an introvert and I find it exhausting to talk about myself in real life.  I would much rather sit back and hear some shit.  It's amazing what people will confide in you if you just listen.

 Maybe this is why I like Luann, or at least don't mind her.  I would just go along with the ride and expect nothing.  On the other hand, I don't think I could ever be friends with Beth, as I feel like she would be the complete opposite--always mining people for info and scanning for problems with a manic look on her face, all...uncool.

 I feel like being around Bethenny would feel like having her inside you, which is how Bethenny described Heather in season seven.  I try to stay away from psychobabble, but projecting much?

[smores]

4 hours ago, LibertarianSlut said:

 I absolutely gravitate to this type of person because I'm an introvert and I find it exhausting to talk about myself in real life.  I would much rather sit back and hear some shit.  It's amazing what people will confide in you if you just listen.

 Maybe this is why I like Luann, or at least don't mind her.  I would just go along with the ride and expect nothing.  On the other hand, I don't think I could ever be friends with Beth, as I feel like she would be the complete opposite--always mining people for info and scanning for problems with a manic look on her face, all...uncool.

 I feel like being around Bethenny would feel like having her inside you, which is how Bethenny described Heather in season seven.  I try to stay away from psychobabble, but projecting much?

It's funny because I feel kind of the exact opposite, but for the same reason.  I feel like I'm a semi-social introvert and being around someone like Luann would be hell for me.  I don't mind letting people talk about themselves, that's fine, and I know exactly what you mean about it being amazing what people will confide in you, but the amount of small talk you'd have to have with Luann would drive me insane.  I just don't know that I have the energy for it, and she requires the feedback, it's not like you can tune out and just nod once in a while, you HAVE to be engaged.  

On the other hand, Bethenny is very similar to my BFF who is, admittedly A LOT.  I totally see how she isn't everyone's cup of tea, but Bethenny is independent and doesn't require someone else to hold her hand for everything.  She will show up if you need her.  She also will always let you know where you stand.  And, and this is really the key thing for me, if she's being too much, you can say, "Listen, you're being intense and I need you to back off a bit" and she'd get it.  

[Happy Camper]

3 hours ago, smores said:

"Listen, you're being intense and I need you to back off a bit" and she'd get it.  

Your friend would get it. That's the difference between her and Bethenny.

Carole tried saying that to Bethenny after B. kept sending her multiple texts while she was in California. Didn't have a good outcome.

[divsc]

I don't think Luann really wants friends. She wants an audience and an echo chamber. Like Sonja said in one of the episodes, "We're not your fans, we're your friends." I don't know if Luann really knows the difference.

[Yours Truly]

11 hours ago, LibertarianSlut said:

 I absolutely gravitate to this type of person because I'm an introvert and I find it exhausting to talk about myself in real life.  I would much rather sit back and hear some shit.  It's amazing what people will confide in you if you just listen.

 Maybe this is why I like Luann, or at least don't mind her.  I would just go along with the ride and expect nothing.  On the other hand, I don't think I could ever be friends with Beth, as I feel like she would be the complete opposite--always mining people for info and scanning for problems with a manic look on her face, all...uncool.

 I feel like being around Bethenny would feel like having her inside you, which is how Bethenny described Heather in season seven.  I try to stay away from psychobabble, but projecting much?

I feel the same about Lu. I feel like I could just go along for the ride and chill. Although I'm not an introvert I do feel like me and Lu would be competing for talk time but on more of a funny/interesting story competition complete with laughing and joking. 

 I don't get this whole panic attack nonsense the others create for themselves when it comes to her. I'm a real secure person tho so that's probably why I wouldn't let anything Lu says or does matter. And if things were to ever get a bit touchy and slick I'd quickly correct the situation and straighten Lu out short and sweet. If it happened more times than I'm comfortable with then that's when it's time to shift the interaction to a more stricter surface socialization.  It's about managing your own reaction not trying to force someone else's behavior. Simple.

[tranquilidade]

I personally don't think you can teach a person to have empathy for others by screaming at them and telling them off.  Lu Anne needs a psychiatrist,not narcissistic friends. 

The attacks just make Lu Anne justify her behavior even more by becoming a victim when they attack her.  It gives her fodder to justify her behavior even more and solidifies her view that everyone is against her.  She doesn't understand what anyone is trying to say and Betheny's screeching panic attack has absolutely no impact on her and leaves no impression other than that Bethenny is crazy.   Barbara crying in pain over the isolation can't affect Lu Anne. For example, Sonya was affected emotionally by the tragic stories of the people at the meeting.  I genuinely believe this.  She tried to discuss it in the car and Lu Anne brushed it off. These stories don't depress Lu Ann, because she does not have any empathy for these people--their problems are their problems--- and she gets up and talks which is healing for her.  This doesn't make her a bad person, just a mentally sick person.   She can't get well going to AA meetings.  This will curb her drinking on and off but the real issue is her mental state which prevents her from having healthy relationships with other people.  No one can have a friendship or bond with a person like this.  Eventually every relationship will suffer and she will be alone drifting from one person to another repeating the same cycle.

[BckpckFullaNinjas]

4 hours ago, divsc said:

I don't think Luann really wants friends. She wants an audience and an echo chamber. Like Sonja said in one of the episodes, "We're not your fans, we're your friends." I don't know if Luann really knows the difference.

Bingo, I think. She strikes me as the kind of person whose mind is wired such that if she has her needs well-met (a rich guy or her own $), she’s on to whatever will get her some adoring attention. 

2 hours ago, tranquilidade said:

This doesn't make her a bad person, just a mentally sick person.   She can't get well going to AA meetings.  This will curb her drinking on and off but the real issue is her mental state which prevents her from having healthy relationships with other people.  No one can have a friendship or bond with a person like this.  Eventually every relationship will suffer and she will be alone drifting from one person to another repeating the same cycle.

See, to me - who loves having a few people who KNOW me and GET me - this would be a soul-crushing way of life; for Lu, it’s air and water!  All she needs to support her fabulousness!  She needs close friends far less than she needs attention, adulation, wealth & luxury. 

And so long as she doesn’t hurt anyone in the process.... I don’t see why she shouldn’t so live. 

Edited June 20, 2019 by BckpckFullaNinjas

[tranquilidade]

True- but I think she is hurting herself in the process and that is something her family might really need to address.  Look at what has already happened.  It could get worse. She was stopped from running through a field in a negligee according to Betheny.  Lu Anne just reasoned: "I was in a dark place".  She doesn't realize how vulnerable she is or how this could end.

[izabella]

56 minutes ago, tranquilidade said:

She was stopped from running through a field in a negligee according to Betheny. 

Lu should have said she was practicing for a feminine douche commercial.

[Yours Truly]

4 hours ago, tranquilidade said:

I personally don't think you can teach a person to have empathy for others by screaming at them and telling them off.  Lu Anne needs a psychiatrist,not narcissistic friends. 

The attacks just make Lu Anne justify her behavior even more by becoming a victim when they attack her.  It gives her fodder to justify her behavior even more and solidifies her view that everyone is against her.  She doesn't understand what anyone is trying to say and Betheny's screeching panic attack has absolutely no impact on her and leaves no impression other than that Bethenny is crazy.   Barbara crying in pain over the isolation can't affect Lu Anne. For example, Sonya was affected emotionally by the tragic stories of the people at the meeting.  I genuinely believe this.  She tried to discuss it in the car and Lu Anne brushed it off. These stories don't depress Lu Ann, because she does not have any empathy for these people--their problems are their problems--- and she gets up and talks which is healing for her.  This doesn't make her a bad person, just a mentally sick person.   She can't get well going to AA meetings.  This will curb her drinking on and off but the real issue is her mental state which prevents her from having healthy relationships with other people.  No one can have a friendship or bond with a person like this.  Eventually every relationship will suffer and she will be alone drifting from one person to another repeating the same cycle.

Some people just aren't about deep relationships. Doesn't make them mentally ill.  I don't think Lu lacks empathy at least not from what I've seen on the show. Maybe not the most nurturing but I get the feeling that she's a present friend to people she trusts. I  think she's hard pressed to take what these women say seriously or take anything they say about her to heart cause there's a part of her that feels there's always some angle or agenda involved. And she ain't wrong. She also knows that these women will turn on you on a dime so she "handles" them which does come across as rather detached. She knows she's not their favorite person so no she doesn't really come across as very warm to any of them.  I see Lu as someone who has hardened over the years due to her life circumstance AND the hot and cold actions of the other women during the course of the show.  Add the issues in her life and I think this is the most real Lu we've seen. Flawed, struggling and bluntly showing her distaste for them and their need to be so overly bitchy about all things Lu. In prior seasons, even with someone she's having issues with she would try to keep up pleasantries and civil interactions. She ain't about that this season and I ain't mad at her. 

I think she see's right through bullshit when it comes to these women and how they interact with her and what you see is her not giving a fuck. I think it comes from a valid place and not narcissism. Sure Lu's self involved, and can be selfish at times but when I hear narcissist I think of a very bad person who goes out of their way and takes pleasure in negatively  affecting the lives of those around them. Not just a person who is self centered.  

Lu's flawed and has made some doozy mistakes. She's fallen a little bit apart these last couple of years which is what I attribute her harsher presence to. But all in all I don't think Lu is anything more than a flawed person who's made mistakes and isn't everyone's cup of tea but can still have strong and legitimate relationships depending on how much she trusts the person.

Edited June 20, 2019 by Yours Truly

[bravofan27]

20 hours ago, Gem 10 said:

This is Bethennys personality. One day she is crucifying Luann in another season, and two days later she is doing something nice for her. Isn’t that like comparing a marriage?  One day you can have a fight with your husband and practically hate his guts, and then two days later he falls off the lawnmower, and you run to help him with concern.  It’s human nature to love and hate at the same time.  I don’t think that Bethenny does nice things to look the hero.  That is too obvious, but you can look at it both ways, I guess.  I myself think she is a helper without motives, but those who don’t like her will see it as not sincere.

It would be very hard for me personally, to manage feelings toward someone I don't like who is helping me. I have an aunt who does this-- she makes herself useful and helpful, without asking, and I take her help because it's just easier and she puts more energy into it than I can muster to send her away. But she definitely uses her "help" as a way to brag about how great of a person she is to others. I don't like her that much, and I don't think she likes me.

My guess is that given Luanne and Bethanny are not friends and have had many arguments and generally just don't like each other, Bethanny jumping in and bringing Dennis into it, was a way for Bethanny to have control over someone. That's just my opinion.

[Haute Messe]

Just caught this again last night and here’s my take.

Not discrediting all the things that Beth has allegedly done to help Lu - but Beth was getting amped up in her resentment and anger toward Lu for days, maybe weeks. That morning, she started lining up soldiers – feeding Barbara an antidote to Lu’s “Kool aid”. You could feel her agitation escalating and Lu was just giving her more and more gasoline to add to the fire. Look at how she freaked out when Lu went to give Barb a hug at dinner. I do agree that Beth is in need of intense psychotherapy and not with a camera present and some TV shrink. She has a lot of deep issues that are surfacing and this looked like a complete mental breakdown. Worse than Scary Island. I also feel terrible for Dennis’ family to have to witness this, not to mention what Bryn may experience.

Lu was being insufferable all day. From making Sonja change her clothes for the AA meeting – Lu was not about to be upstaged where she would have a captive audience. She was absolutely obnoxious when she came back from her “two hour swim and photo shoot”, bitching about the lack of time for her massage and hair blow out.  She must have been aware of what time they were going out for dinner and she's damn lucky that Ramona waited for her.

Lu is devoid of humility, gratitude and compassion. There is a condition in the book of AA known as self-will run riot and Lu has this in spades. Her ego and lack of self awareness are out of control. If Lu was capable of saying thank you, or I am sorry, for ANYTHING, I doubt that this would have devolved into this grand mal shitshow (thank you earlier poster for this epic description).

Sonja’s reaction to the meeting was pretty over the top, but not a “360” as Lu described it. I am almost certain she must have been raised in a household where French was the native tongue, as Lu’s inability to articulate comes out as Frenglish.

Tins needs a dating coach - that was excruciating.

[bravofan27]

14 minutes ago, lizajane said:

Just caught this again last night and here’s my take.

Not discrediting all the things that Beth has allegedly done to help Lu - but Beth was getting amped up in her resentment and anger toward Lu for days, maybe weeks. That morning, she started lining up soldiers – feeding Barbara an antidote to Lu’s “Kool aid”. You could feel her agitation escalating and Lu was just giving her more and more gasoline to add to the fire. Look at how she freaked out when Lu went to give Barb a hug at dinner. 

Man-- that bummed me out. I thought Luanne looked a little sad, and I think Barb needed a hug, and Bethanny just insisted Luanne sit down. Luanne should have completely ignored her, taken Barb away, and talked to her. Sadly, everyone counts on Bethanny's energy to run the show, so people have, in a way, some learned helplessness.

Is there a county or town or something that Bethanny can be the mayor of? I'd love nothing more than to never have to see her annoying face again.

[tranquilidade]

57 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

Some people just aren't about deep relationships. Doesn't make them mentally ill.  I don't think Lu lacks empathy at least not from what I've seen on the show. Maybe not the most nurturing but I get the feeling that she's a present friend to people she trusts. I  think she's hard pressed to take what these women say seriously or take anything they say about her to heart cause there's a part of her that feels there's always some angle or agenda involved. And she ain't wrong. She also knows that these women will turn on you on a dime so she "handles" them which does come across as rather detached. She knows she's not their favorite person so no she doesn't really come across as very warm to any of them.  I see Lu as someone who has hardened over the years due to her life circumstance AND the hot and cold actions of the other women during the course of the show.  Add the issues in her life and I think this is the most real Lu we've seen. Flawed, struggling and bluntly showing her distaste for them and their need to be so overly bitchy about all things Lu. In prior seasons, even with someone she's having issues with she would try to keep up pleasantries and civil interactions. She ain't about that this season and I ain't mad at her. 

I think she see's right through bullshit when it comes to these women and how they interact with her and what you see is her not giving a fuck. I think it comes from a valid place and not narcissism. Sure Lu's self involved, and can be selfish at times but when I hear narcissist I think of a very bad person who goes out of their way and takes pleasure in negatively  affecting the lives of those around them. Not just a person who is self centered.  

Lu's flawed and has made some doozy mistakes. She's fallen a little bit apart these last couple of years which is what I attribute her harsher presence to. But all in all I don't think Lu is anything more than a flawed person who's made mistakes and isn't everyone's cup of tea but can still have strong and legitimate relationships depending on how much she trusts the person.

I would like you to be right for her sake but I don't think she has fallen a little bit apart; her life is in shambles and headed down the drain.  I want to be wrong, let's hope I am. 

[smores]

9 hours ago, Happy Camper said:

Your friend would get it. That's the difference between her and Bethenny.

Carole tried saying that to Bethenny after B. kept sending her multiple texts while she was in California. Didn't have a good outcome.

Carole was gaslighting Bethenny, though.  She didn't say "We're fine, I just need a bit of time and you're coming on strong, let me call you in a week"  She just stopped responding and then would be like "Wait, what? Nothing is going on, why do you think we have a problem?" And then go and talk to everyone else and tell them that Bethenny had all these issues and she couldn't deal with her.  Then it would get back to Bethenny, who would try to resolve it and she'd be like, "Huh? No, we talked, it's good."

If you come at a personality like Bethenny and directly say "You are being intense, I need some space, and I will do x in this amount of time" They respond really well.  

4 minutes ago, bravofan27 said:

Man-- that bummed me out. I thought Luanne looked a little sad, and I think Barb needed a hug, and Bethanny just insisted Luanne sit down. Luanne should have completely ignored her, taken Barb away, and talked to her. Sadly, everyone counts on Bethanny's energy to run the show, so people have, in a way, some learned helplessness.

Is there a county or town or something that Bethanny can be the mayor of? I'd love nothing more than to never have to see her annoying face again.

The issue with Lu hugging Barbara was that she was doing it to shut down Barbara's telling Lu how she was hurt.  Barbara was in the middle of her explanation, she was trying to tell Lu why she felt the way she did.  Lu's first response was to blow it off kind of like (paraphrasing) "What? Why do you feel that way? Nothing is wrong!" When Barbara continued her explanation and Lu realized that tactic wasn't getting her out of the situation, she changed gears and went to "Oh, you look sad, I'm sorry you're sad let me come give you a hug, don't feel bad!" And kind of tried to switch to love bombing her.  This way whatever Barbara was saying about her would be derailed and she theoretically would feel apologized to, but Lu really didn't admit or apologize to anything.  Bethenny was like, wait, hold up, that's not letting her tell you how she feels, you're just trying to sidetrack the conversation, so sit the F down.

[hoodooznoodooz]

Lu should model the Spring 2020 Jovani dresses to promote an “Ignorance is Bliss” campaign.

[AnnA]

55 minutes ago, smores said:

Carole was gaslighting Bethenny, though.  She didn't say "We're fine, I just need a bit of time and you're coming on strong, let me call you in a week"  She just stopped responding and then would be like "Wait, what? Nothing is going on, why do you think we have a problem?" And then go and talk to everyone else and tell them that Bethenny had all these issues and she couldn't deal with her.  Then it would get back to Bethenny, who would try to resolve it and she'd be like, "Huh? No, we talked, it's good."

Exactly!

And Carole got just what she deserved........

[Haute Messe]

1 hour ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

Lu should model the Spring 2020 Jovani dresses to promote an “Ignorance is Bliss” campaign.

God help us, that could be her next song.

[Yours Truly]

3 hours ago, tranquilidade said:

I would like you to be right for her sake but I don't think she has fallen a little bit apart; her life is in shambles and headed down the drain.  I want to be wrong, let's hope I am. 

Oh it’s serious all right but I really think the whole Tom thing really sent her reeling. Before that she was pretty together. I think what she needs the most is time. Time heals but if she continues running into obstacles while trying to manage her emotions over this then it may manifest into an ongoing routine. I think if she is able to get thru probation and the public scrutiny without further incident then she has a chance to move passed all the negativity but if she continuously finds herself mixed up in compromising situations publicly then yeah I can see the constant embarrassment, criticism, making light, with finally do her in. I really think she needs people to lay off for a bit while she gathers herself. The constant hounding and nitpicking isn’t really to do her any good. 

I never understand the need to demand someone to heal in the way you want them to heal. That’s why I’m not that big a fan of AA. Everyone demands that the program be followed no if’s ands or buts but I don’t believe that program is a good fit for everyone but once ur seen as shunning the steps you become an instant villain. I think that a hell of a burden to lay on someone trying to get through something. 

I hope in the off season lu gets the much needed breathing room without a bunch of added pressures from outsiders to be perfect in her recovery. 

3 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

Edited June 20, 2019 by Yours Truly

[Gem 10]

It was very nice of Bethenny to get Tinsley to meet the new guy.  It gave her a lift, and he texted her the next day.  Good work B.

[QQQQ]

Here's something this midwesterner noticed on her 3rd viewing: when saying Truffle fries, they place the emphasis on 'fries' which sounds weird to me. To be honest, I've only ever ordered French fries (but when I do, I say FRENCH fries, not French FRIES).

[divsc]

58 minutes ago, Gem 10 said:

It was very nice of Bethenny to get Tinsley to meet the new guy.  It gave her a lift, and he texted her the next day.  Good work B.

I thought B did a good job with that. She even did a cool, easy breezy, "hey, girl in the polka dots is cute, fun, single" to the guy and a smooth head nod and "he's into it" to Tinsley, without making an introduction hyped up, pressured or awkward. Tinsley made it totes awkward all on her own lol. But I agree, B did great with the set up scene.

[Drumpf1737]

Lu is a delusional trainwreck, but I wonder if she really needs the money she's making from caberet? First the Count divorces her after a very public affair, Tom, now this debacle with the houses so I empathize but she's so self centered she's insufferable. 

And ffs just say you're sorry! It's so maddening that I have to give credit to her but at least Bethenny will apologize or did I miss something.

Sonja's constant picking at Tinsley is infuriating because it's just jealousy. Tinsley has money; it's Sonja who's broke.  Why does she keep insinuating Tinsley is selling herself to a guy with money? 

I can't believe I'm gonna say this but I'm really tired of this one.

[stcroix]

13 hours ago, divsc said:

I don't think Luann really wants friends. She wants an audience and an echo chamber. Like Sonja said in one of the episodes, "We're not your fans, we're your friends." I don't know if Luann really knows the difference.

I totally agree-- Luann does not need friends.  She's fine just like she is.  As long as she gets attention and looks good, who needs other women? (her thoughts) That backfires on her when she's around these women who all need other women to validate them-- I think that is a BORE to Luann.  Who wants to spend time on other women when there's Fabulous Her to focus on? I think that's why she could leave her children so easily, even encouraging them to stay by themselves at the Hamptons home while she spent weekends in New York when they were teenagers.  I know she loves them but I don't think she needs even them.  😞  

On another topic: Is there not a show on this week?!?!  I get mine through Amazon Prime and got my treat ready and signed in to find no show last night!  Horrors.  What's going on?