S02.E02: Tell Tale Hearts

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

Renata faces an uncertain future when Gordon lands in legal trouble. Corey asks Jane out on a “practice” date. After a challenging therapy session with Dr. Reisman, Celeste opens up to Mary Louise about her relationship with Perry. Bonnie’s mom, Elizabeth, arrives. Ed confronts Madeline about her secrets.

Airing Sunday, June 16, 2019.

 

 

[Toodleoo]

Hey Renata, if you need some quick cash I will take that Louboutin bag off your hands for a couple hundred. Smooches!

Seems like Mary Louise is building a case for grandparents’ rights/custody of those boys. Yikes.

Poor Ed. Someone forgot to tell all the Monterey Five Spawn to be seen and not heard...they are wrecking all their mama’s lives.

Edit: on second thought, it’s mostly just Madeline’s kids blowing it all up.

Edited June 17, 2019 by Toodleoo

[CleoCaesar]

I wouldn't mind if Mary Louise ends up this season with a piece of rebar in her neck.

[SeanC]

Madeline clearly never told her daughters that loose lips sink ships.

I can't recall if this was in the previous season, but did Madeline say that the detective lady knows about Ziggy?  If so...Christ, the lie they've been telling just gets dumber by the minute.

After Game of Thrones turned Jon Snow's parentage into such a ridiculous non-event from a character perspective, that scene with Jane and Ziggy had so much weight (though I question the decision to tell him all about this upfront, even accounting for the desire not to lie; that's a lot to dump on a grade schooler).

[mojoween]

My hubby looked at me puzzled and asked “why do you have your hand over your mouth?” and I couldn’t articulate it at the time until I realized it’s because one conversation after another is so uncomfortable I want to crawl inside my own skin.

Renata’s red court suit was very...Renata.  It amused me how she said she’s not going to be not rich, like she can’t even say poor.

Nate’s obsession with Ed is super creepy.  Also, poor Ed.  Finding everything out secondhand.

Chloe.  Oh Chloe.

[ch1]

Mary Louise is intolerable because she is one of those not my son mothers.   Her son was garbage and no matter what Celeste tells her it’s going to be everyone else who is the bad guy.

Poor Ziggy.  How do you introduce him to his brothers?  “Hey Ziggy remember last year when your life was shit because you were being blamed for choking your classmate?  Guess what the one who really did it is your brother.  Isn’t that awesome??”  Jeez and with how those boys are at each other’s throats I feel bad for him.

[Paws]

Bonnie’s mother is so right..Nathan is an idiot. His heart is in the right place but jeez. However, I thought Bonnie grew up in an abusive home, and that’s why she recognized Perry for the monster he was?  It didn’t seem like her family was like that. 

Oh chloe, Chloe Chloe indeed.  

Edited June 17, 2019 by Paws

[Melina22]

The child actors in this show are top notch. Nothing ruins a scene more than a terrible child actor. 

You're right about Bonnie's coming from an abusive family. I'd forgotten! They do refer to the mother having a past drinking problem, but that's it. 

The actresses are all excellent. I particularly like Reese and Laura. But I'll never not be bothered by Nicole's too-smooth-to-be-real face, or Meryl's stunt teeth. They don't look fake, exactly, but my brain knows they're not her teeth. 

That said, I'm really enjoying the season so far. 

[Eyes High]

Renata screaming "WILL SOMEBODY GIVE A WOMAN A MOMENNNNNT???" while driving away was iconic. Runner-up was her hissing at her spectacularly pathetic husband "I will not not be rich!"

...I always figured Ed knew about Madeline's affair, judging from 1x07. I guess the whole thing is Madeline never admitting to it...?

I'm really missing Vallee's direction from Season 1. A big comedown.

Edited June 17, 2019 by Eyes High

[Chaos Theory]

And things start to unravel for the ladies.

i am still really enjoying the scenes with Celeste and her shrink.   They are always so beautifully intense.

Reneta’s  husband getting arrested right on the heels of her good news and then to find out that he essentially spent their (her) life savings.  I thought it was interesting that he kept bringing up their daughters trust fund and saying he couldn’t touch it like he actually tried to.  

Having Madeline’s secrets come out the way they did to her husband was all very well done.   

Edited June 17, 2019 by Chaos Theory

[anniebird]

21 minutes ago, Melina22 said:

But I'll never not be bothered by Nicole's too-smooth-to-be-real face, or Meryl's stunt teeth. They don't look fake, exactly, but my brain knows they're not her teeth. 

According to Vulture, they did that so her teeth would look more like Alexander Skarsgard's teeth. I guess the show assumes that we will all remember what his teeth looked like.

[Eyes High]

2 minutes ago, anniebird said:

According to Vulture, they did that so her teeth would look more like Alexander Skarsgard's teeth

Right, because that was the niggling discrepancy between Meryl and Alexander Skarsgard's looks as playing a mother and son. The teeth.

Edited June 17, 2019 by Eyes High

[ferjy]

1 hour ago, Eyes High said:

Right, because that was the niggling discrepancy between Meryl and Alexander Skarsgard's looks as playing a mother and son. The teeth.

lol Surprised they didn't put her on stilts too.

 

1 hour ago, anniebird said:

According to Vulture, they did that so her teeth would look more like Alexander Skarsgard's teeth. I guess the show assumes that we will all remember what his teeth looked like.

Isn't it what we are all thinking while salivating over him? Gorgeous teeth! 😄

Edited June 17, 2019 by ferjy

[peridot]

1 hour ago, Toodleoo said:

Seems like Mary Louise is building a case for grandparents’ rights/custody of those boys. Yikes.

Yep, that's what it's looking like.  Mary Louise is so quick to blame women ("where were you", "she probably had multiple partners").  I don't know why Celeste is being so free with her.

It also looks like Celeste is having rough sex with strange men to recreate the past.  She and her children need a lot of therapy.  I glad the twins brought up the fact that they can't confide in her, because of her need to minimize issues.  I hate that she told them their father was good, but a weak person.

Poor Ed.  Madeline's daughters both have big mouths, just like her, and tend to blow up people's lives.

Bonnie's mother looks to be interesting.  What did she put on the drawers, some voodoo stuff?

[Blakeston]

I think that Celeste must be so filled with self-hatred and guilt that she wants the world to know that she lied about Perry's death, and she believes (at least on some level) that her children should be taken away from her.

It would explain why she insists on handling everything with Mary Louise so terribly.

[ferjy]

1 hour ago, Melina22 said:

The child actors in this show are top notch. Nothing ruins a scene more than a terrible child actor. 

You're right about Bonnie's coming from an abusive family. I'd forgotten! They do refer to the mother having a past drinking problem, but that's it. 

The actresses are all excellent. I particularly like Reese and Laura. But I'll never not be bothered by Nicole's too-smooth-to-be-real face, or Meryl's stunt teeth. They don't look fake, exactly, but my brain knows they're not her teeth. 

That said, I'm really enjoying the season so far. 

They are good. The twins that play Josh and Max look so much like Alexander Skarsgård. I had to look up their real names to see if they were actually AS's real sons. Amazing likeness.

[jeansheridan]

9 minutes ago, peridot said:

also looks like Celeste is having rough sex with strange men to recreate the past. 

I don't get this? Did I miss a scene?

I really wish we had heard Jane's definition of assault to Ziggy. I admire her for being upfront and I think there are ways to define assault for his age without getting too graphic but I did want to see it. 

I kind of love that Chloe is a total shit disturber! Innocently if course. And I am glad the kids are getting lines and scenes and some depth. Bonnie's daughter calling her out on her BS was the best because she was so gentle about it.

I feel for Ed too. But I think he will forgive her. 

[ferjy]

1 hour ago, Melina22 said:

The child actors in this show are top notch. Nothing ruins a scene more than a terrible child actor. 

You're right about Bonnie's coming from an abusive family. I'd forgotten! They do refer to the mother having a past drinking problem, but that's it. 

The actresses are all excellent. I particularly like Reese and Laura. But I'll never not be bothered by Nicole's too-smooth-to-be-real face, or Meryl's stunt teeth. They don't look fake, exactly, but my brain knows they're not her teeth. 

That said, I'm really enjoying the season so far. 

I hate that botoxed stiff upper lip that so many actresses have now. They can't show proper emotion because of it. We were talking about the same problem in The Widow with Kate Beckinsale. When she tried to cry her face scrunched up in an alarming way. I found the same today when Nicole Kidman tried to look mad/shocked in this episode. She looked like a fish out of water, literally.

[tennisgurl]

So Madeline's whole plot is basically "kids just say the darndest thing" all throughout. Poor Ed. He is definitely the best of all the husbands on this show, and his family lies to him and wife cheats on him with the kids drama teacher. Then just keeps saying its "not about him, its about me, and us" like thats supposed to make him feel better. Like, yeah Madeline it was clearly about you, considering you were the only one of the two you fucking the theater guy, and it certainly says something about how you see your marriage. 

Celeste freaking out on her son when he hit her was so brutal and heartbreaking. I really do hope that she can get through to her sons and help them deal with their anger and unlearn what they learned from their father. Its hard though with Celeste's struggles with acknowledging her abuse and who her husband was, and now Mary Lou posthumously defying her son, despite all evidence that he was awful. Maybe when the boys are older she can be more honest, but its hard for her to teach them not to be violent when she can hardly talk about anything thats happened.

""WILL SOMEBODY GIVE A WOMAN A MOMENNNNNT???" Oh Renata, you could probably get out of the hole just by selling a few of your outfits! Love that Madeline is just like "...do you need a Xanax?" 

Honestly, should "do you need a Xanax?" be the new Monterey city motto? Stick it on some shirts, the pamphlets?  

Edited June 19, 2019 by tennisgurl

[Bama]

The conversation between Bonnie and her mom makes me think there’s way more to their past than Bonnie not believing in her mother having some kind of supernatural gift.

 And her mom asking her “What did you do this time?” just reinforced my suspicion.

 I think we’re going to find out Bonnie’s mom is not a very nice person.

[peridot]

7 minutes ago, jeansheridan said:

I don't get this? Did I miss a scene?

In the beginning, it looked like Celeste was having sex with a guy with large back tattoo in her car.  Near the end, she was pressing on a bruise on her wrist.

[jeansheridan]

Oh wow. I thought she was remembering Perry. I missed that entirely. Heh. 

I thought her son gave her that bruise.

[nb360]

Wow, this was a good episode. I love how Madeline and Mary Louise interact.

My heart dropped when Ziggy told his Mom that Perry gave her salt, that he “salted” her.

[Melina22]

5 minutes ago, peridot said:

In the beginning, it looked like Celeste was having sex with a guy with large back tattoo in her car.  Near the end, she was pressing on a bruise on her wrist.

I didn't see anyone in the car. Could the bruise be from her accident? Or from her altercation with her son? 

[Crs97]

1 hour ago, Eyes High said:

..I always figured Ed knew about Madeline's affair, judging from 1x07. I guess the whole thing is Madeline never admitting to it...?

Yes, we saw in season 1 that she began to tell him and he cut her off.  He knows and wouldn’t let her confess, and I hate that they are trying to change it now.

[jeansheridan]

I also like Jane's potential beau. He is indeed weird but it seems to be an uncomplicated weird.

Other than his interactions with Ed, I kind of dig Nathan. He's trying really hard and he seems so sweet with Bonnie. How many guys call in their mother in laws for help? And she wasn't very kind to him at dinner and he held his temper.

 

26 minutes ago, Crs97 said:

He knows and wouldn’t let her confess, and I hate that they are trying to change it now.

Could it be more that he is offended that Abigail knew the details? Like he knew something happened but so long as Maddie kept it buried, he didn't need to know. But since Abby knows, then who else might know? 

[ferjy]

29 minutes ago, peridot said:

In the beginning, it looked like Celeste was having sex with a guy with large back tattoo in her car.  Near the end, she was pressing on a bruise on her wrist.

I think that was just her memories of Perry which we keep seeing at intervals, wasn't it? She was in a housecoat in the car, not in sexy lingerie like in the vision. Shortly after she told her therapist that she can't stop thinking of Perry, misses him and doesn't want anyone else.

[Ms Blue Jay]

This show loves its car crashes to shock the audience.  It's one of their favourite tropes to shock and punish the audience.  Now whenever a character is driving I'm hiding my eyes from seeing the screen because I'm worried another fucking car crash will happen.  First, Madeleine and Joseph in Season 1 and now Celeste. And yes, it's very gratuitous as 

Spoiler

There are no such instances in the book.

I just think it's lazy and cliched and punishes us for no reason.  There are better ways to tell a story.

Edited June 17, 2019 by Ms Blue Jay

[tennisgurl]

It’s good to see this shows favorite type of scene, “parent and young child rocking out to oldies in the car driving by water” is alive and well this season! 

[Cheezwiz]

Oy, what a mess all of these ladies are in now.

As expected Mary Louise refuses to believe anything negative about her precious boy. It sounds like she was widowed and raised Perry as a single parent? And it was revealed Perry had a brother who died? I wonder if more of his past will be revealed. Celeste is up shit creek now that the cat is out of the bag about Ziggy.

Something seriously bad happened in Bonnie's past, and I'm intrigued to know what it is. She seems very wary of her Mom, and I don't think it's just her prior alcoholism. Looks like Mom is a voodoo practicioner of some kind. She is right about Nathan - he is a dolt, and I don't understand why he constantly picks on Ed, who is simply bewildered by Nathan.

Poor Ed. I had honestly forgotten about the whole affair subplot, and couldn't remember if it had been revealed to him last season or not. I'm loving that he's standing up for himself:

"Where are you going?"

"To get my ears checked"

Heh.

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

Celeste freaking out on her son when he hit her was so brutal and heartbreaking.

That was really powerful.

Edited June 17, 2019 by Cheezwiz

[Razzberry]

Poor Ziggy.  3rd graders don't need to told everything, Jane, and seeing their mother in tears can be an upsetting, not bonding, experience.  Try to buck up, FFS.

1 hour ago, anniebird said:

According to Vulture, they did that so her teeth would look more like Alexander Skarsgard's teeth. I guess the show assumes that we will all remember what his teeth looked like.

Can't lie, I find his overbite very attractive.   He's almost too good in this role, however.

Nathan's personality and insecurity is such a turn off I find it hard to believe that these women ever married him.

Ed may want to compare notes with the director's wife.

Why aren't the evil twins in therapy? Why isn't everyone?

[Cheezwiz]

2 minutes ago, Razzberry said:

Why aren't the evil twins in therapy? Why isn't everyone?

I think Celeste mentioned in her own therapy session that her boys are seeing a therapist, but we  haven't seen any evidence of it on the show, and their behavior certainly doesn't seem to be improving.

[answerphone]

Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive. 

These women and their men have so many tangled webs😬🤫😲

Great episode, with lots of twists and revelations.

[FemmyV]

49 minutes ago, jeansheridan said:

Could it be more that he is offended that Abigail knew the details? Like he knew something happened but so long as Maddie kept it buried, he didn't need to know. But since Abby knows, then who else might know? 

It would be interesting. Ed appears to be the sharpest tool in the shed, where the men of the show are concerned, and he may have been willing to look away and forgive last year, but that doesn't mean he's going to want to be perceived as a cuckold by anyone, this year. I expect he's going to have to forgive her at some point; Ed is too much the center of sanity for the show to lose.

Things I loved: Bonnie's mom appearing to be a big soft woman at first, and turning out to have a big bite. Madeleine's refusal to accept the guilt Mary Louise is trying so hard to tweak out of her.

[Cheezwiz]

5 minutes ago, Razzberry said:

Can't lie, I find his overbite very attractive.   He's almost too good in this role, however.

Ya know, I don't usually go for really blonde guys, but after I became aware of him (back in True Blood days), I decided he was a blonde dude I could go for. However his performance last season was so convincing and so terrifying, that even if by some miracle/time-space convergence thingy/ if I had a free shot at him, and he were guaranteed to be all mine for a night, I would actually hesitate.

[Ms Blue Jay]

2 hours ago, Paws said:

Bonnie’s mother is so right..Nathan is an idiot. 

I loved her.  I loved the actor playing her.  She's now my second favourite actor on the show, after Reese.

2 hours ago, Paws said:

 However, I thought Bonnie grew up in an abusive home, and that’s why she recognized Perry for the monster he was?  It didn’t seem like her family was like that. 

Exactly.  Weird inconsistency.

These episodes are too intense for me.  They really threw everything and the kitchen sink into this one.  There were like 4 kitchen sinks.

Can somebody summarize what Gordon did?  It was so goddamn fast and quiet, just like all important, show-changing plot points on television.

Edited June 17, 2019 by Ms Blue Jay

[icol]

I actually feel like that is totally consistent. I'm more afraid of Bonnie's mom than of Mary Louise. I totally see why Bonnie is apprehensive. 

Also, I really enjoyed this episode. I literally had tears in the end scene of Jane and Celeste and their kids together. There's a lot to handle with this episode but everything landed for me.

Laura Dern continues to amaze, Reese continues to balance both comedy and drama, all the kids are amazing, Adam Scott + that ending song, Zoe Kravitz delivering when the material is there!

[VagueDisclaimer]

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

Celeste freaking out on her son when he hit her was so brutal and heartbreaking. I really do hope that she can get through to her sons and help them deal with their anger and unlearn what they learned from their father. Its hard though with Celeste's struggles with acknowledging her abuse and who her husband was, and now Mary Lou posthumously defying her son, despite all evidence that he was awful. Maybe when the boys are older she can be more honest, but its hard for her to teach them not to be violent when she can hardly talk about anything thats happened.

Their default to violence is very disturbing, but they also learned to not respect their mother. I think that’s part of the reason Celeste appreciates Mary Louise’s presence. Because it seems they hear her more than their mother. I just want to ship the whole family off to some intense, immersive rehab program. 

[Cheezwiz]

31 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Can somebody summarize what Gordon did?  It was so goddamn fast and quiet, just like all important, show-changing plot points on television.

It's a bit murky, but it was some sort of major securities fraud, which was apparently at the Federal level, since the FBI picked him up and tossed him in the clink. It seems he had been covering his ass for quite some time with both his and Renata's money, and now *poof* it's all gone. Lara Dern's Type A privilege rage was making me laugh all through the episode. She was more furious at the prospect of being poor than the fact that her husband committed a Federal offence.

Edited June 17, 2019 by Cheezwiz
Punctuation is important!

[Irlandesa]

1 hour ago, Bama said:

The conversation between Bonnie and her mom makes me think there’s way more to their past than Bonnie not believing in her mother having some kind of supernatural gift.

 And her mom asking her “What did you do this time?” just reinforced my suspicion.

 I think we’re going to find out Bonnie’s mom is not a very nice person.

Exactly.  I think the allusion to her past drinking "100 drinks is not okay" means there's more to the story.  I think the abuse was implied last season but not specific. But I have a terrible memory.

Spoiler

I think a lot of the specifics are coming from what was told in the book vs. what was told to us in the show.

1 hour ago, Crs97 said:

Yes, we saw in season 1 that she began to tell him and he cut her off.  He knows and wouldn’t let her confess, and I hate that they are trying to change it now.

He knew she was going to confess something but he stopped her.  I don't think he knew what the specific transgression was.  There's that age old question of whether or not you'd want to be told if your partner cheated on you if it was 100% over and they weren't going to do it again.  Some people would want to know no matter what.  Others won't because they like the relationship they have, the future of their relationship and don't want having to deal with the emotional junk they'd have to deal with by knowing about the thing that's now in the past.  In other words, it's up to the person who made the mistake/poor choice deal with that guilt.

I took Ed's decision last year as potentially belonging to the latter group.  But now he knows.  Not only does he know, but he finds out both of his daughters knew huge pieces of gossip that made up with a big part of Madeline's preoccupation and she wasn't one of the first people she looked towards as a person to confide in. It wasn't a mistake just left in the past.

I love Adam Scott and it's amazing how Ed is bringing the funny even when things really aren't funny---as in when he walked in on Abigail and Madeline's conversation. It was awful but so funny given what happened earlier with his other daughter.

[jenn31]

2 hours ago, anniebird said:

According to Vulture, they did that so her teeth would look more like Alexander Skarsgard's teeth. I guess the show assumes that we will all remember what his teeth looked like.

Isn't that a little insulting of them? Hey, we're going to fill Meryl's mouth with teeth so they can look like your bucked teeth. 😀

[scrb]

3 hours ago, Eyes High said:

Renata screaming "WILL SOMEBODY GIVE A WOMAN A MOMENNNNNT???" while driving away was iconic. Runner-up was her hissing at her spectacularly pathetic husband "I will not not be rich!"

I like the second line more.  Then she said she used to like sitting on Gordon's face but fat chance of that happening any more.

But Ed saying I'm going to get my ears checked was awesome too.

The actors showed their chops in this episode.  These lines would cause physical violence.

How does Celeste wreck an Audi while daydreaming about sexy times with Perry and then later that afternoon, she has another Audi?

Hey but people in this community are talking Gulfstreams so an Audi is nothing?  Meanwhile Momma Perry is going to rent a little apartment?  If there were any, it would be ridiculously out of reach for her unless Perry left her money too.

Therapist had to get Celeste to think about the times he beat her and then imagining her friend Madeline in her place.  Yet she still tells her sons he was a wonderful man.

Bonnie's mother seemed like a fierce, DGAF, truth-teller.  Then she sneaked in white Bonnie and Nathan were asleep, pulled out the voodoo charms.

And here I thought all Monterey had was a fucking aquarium.

Edited June 17, 2019 by scrb

[Kenz]

11 hours ago, Melina22 said:

 But I'll never not be bothered by Nicole's too-smooth-to-be-real face, or Meryl's stunt teeth. 

Last season I just thought Nicole looked remarkably young and fresh faced. Now on this season her face looks like it has been smoothed out so much that she almost looks like a face that's been altered by an app or maybe looks robotic. I can't stop looking at Meryl Streep's teeth when she talks and that's really distracting.

Edited June 17, 2019 by Kenz

[chocolatine]

3 hours ago, mojoween said:

Renata’s red court suit was very...Renata.  It amused me how she said she’s not going to be not rich, like she can’t even say poor.

There is a difference between not rich and and poor. Renata would not be content with just being not rich (i.e. middle class), she *has* to be rich.

3 hours ago, Melina22 said:

The actresses are all excellent. I particularly like Reese and Laura. But I'll never not be bothered by Nicole's too-smooth-to-be-real face

From some angles her face looks really terrible, you can see all the work she's had done.

2 hours ago, peridot said:

Bonnie's mother looks to be interesting.  What did she put on the drawers, some voodoo stuff?

A wishbone, a crystal, and a feather. I think she's batshit crazy, even though she was not wrong to call Nathan a dolt. Speaking of dolt, didn't Maddie make it clear last season that Nathan walked out on her and Abigail? I wanted to slap him when he was lecturing Bonnie how fragile marriages are.

2 hours ago, peridot said:

In the beginning, it looked like Celeste was having sex with a guy with large back tattoo in her car.  Near the end, she was pressing on a bruise on her wrist.

I thought she was having sex with a random guy as well. She was wearing smudged eye makeup when she crashed the car, so I thought she got tarted up the night before, went out, and found a guy to hook up with. Then got home at 2am and took an Ambien because she had too much adrenaline to sleep. 

54 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Can somebody summarize what Gordon did?  It was so goddamn fast and quiet, just like all important, show-changing plot points on television.

I'm not a financial expert, but it sounded like he'd done some insider trading - he said he was the only one who had some kind of information - and potentially also breach of fiduciary duty. IMO this whole plot line is way too cliche. Someone who's achieved Gordon's professional and financial status should know better. I think TPTB just needed something new for Renata to freak out over, now that she's friends with the other women and Amabella is no longer being bullied.

15 minutes ago, scrb said:

How does Celeste wreck an Audi while daydreaming about sexy times with Perry and then later that afternoon, she has another Audi?

Loaner from the dealership.

Edited June 17, 2019 by chocolatine

[VagueDisclaimer]

Something confusing me about the ~mystery around Perry’s death remains how much was known about Perry beating Celeste during those last moments. It looked like in the interview flashes that she looked bruised and it also sounded like Madeline was talking about it, yet Mary Louise doesn’t know anything about that aspect? Maybe that will be revealed when she speaks to the detective, but it’s frustrating that this is still unclear and I’d like to see their full interviews from directly after the incident. 

[Irlandesa]

56 minutes ago, scrb said:

Therapist had to get Celeste to think about the times he beat her and then imagining her friend Madeline in her place.  Yet she still tells her sons he was a wonderful man. 

That made sense to me. She doesn't have to deal with violent Perry anymore. It's easier to focus on how he was not awful with his children and mother.  Even when she was explaining that Perry was violent to his mother, she was able to unequivocally call what Perry did to Jane "rape" but made it seem like the domestic abuse was a shared situation. "We were violent with each other."

I actually wonder if the therapist's advice for her to get out there and test the waters is bad advice.  If she's still in this mindset, it might make her vulnerable to other abusers out there.

[nb360]

4 hours ago, Eyes High said:

Renata screaming "WILL SOMEBODY GIVE A WOMAN A MOMENNNNNT???" while driving away was iconic. Runner-up was her hissing at her spectacularly pathetic husband "I will not not be rich!"

I hope HBO just goes ahead and puts these lines on a t-shirt or mug, for sale. It could be the show’s version of “Winter is coming” (GoT).

I’d love to see more of Renata’s backstory. I bet she was a “bully” when she was a little girl, just like Madeline.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I understand that to every mother, her children will always be her babies, but I do not want ANYONE creeping into my bedroom when I'm asleep. If the house is on fire, feel free to run in screaming. Other than that, stay the fuck out of my room while I'm sleeping.

Ed's anger about Madeline's affair is understandable, but I thought it was a bit much for him to be so angry that she hadn't told him that Perry raped Jane and that Ziggy was the result. I know there is an unspoken agreement that spouses tell each other everything, but that wasn't her secret to share.

Nathan is still a turd every time he is within a 50 yard radius of Ed. He just walks up with no preamble and tells him that he decided to run and then gets pissy at Ed's response. The only good thing about their interactions is Ed's constantly entertaining reactions. Even when Nathan tried to get into a pissing contest and threatened to fight him, Ed's response was "Seriously?" and then walking away which totally cracked me up.

I get that Celeste still loves Perry and doesn't want her kids to think he was a monster, but it sickened me to see how she rushed to tell them what a wonderful person he was. BARF. I also hated that she told Mary Louise that they had a sickness together. That alone just goes to show that she still needs a lot of therapy.

I loved when the therapist told Celeste to remember Perry being abusive to her and then to imagine him doing the same thing to Madeline. I have told several people similar things when they were in bad relationships. Sometimes it takes that shift in perspective to realize that what is happening is unacceptable.

Unfortunately sometimes people just accept what is happening to them and what is being done to them. I remember a friend of mine told me about some of the really terrible things that were going on in a relationship. I said, "What would you say if I told you that was happening to me?" There was silence and then, "I would tell you to get the hell out of that relationship." I was like FINALLY!

I do not understand why Celeste told Mary Louise everything. Did she honestly think that Mary Louise would not find a way to twist all of that information against her?

It sucks that Chloe spilled the beans about who Ziggy's dad is, but I guess at least it's all out in the open (especially since I'm guessing that Mary Louise is going to turn it into a huge issue). But given that the twins have been shown to be violent bullies, I feel bad that poor Ziggy is going to get picked on and beat up by his newfound brothers sooner rather than later.

What are the chances that Perry's five year old brother died under mysterious cirumstances? Now the only question is if it was Perry or his father who caused that death.

Edited June 17, 2019 by ElectricBoogaloo
Typo

[nb360]

7 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

What are the chances that Perry's five year old brother died under mysterious cirumstances? Now the only question is if it was Perry or his father who caused that death.

Or... Mary Louise?

[Blakeston]

5 hours ago, Razzberry said:

Nathan's personality and insecurity is such a turn off I find it hard to believe that these women ever married him.

As much as I like this show, I feel like there are things that don't really add up.

One is what the hell Bonnie is doing with someone like Nathan. I know there are plenty of beautiful, free-spirited, alluring women out there who have married neanderthals - but they've never shown us what on earth she ever found attractive about him. (To be fair, it looks like they might explore that this season.)

With Perry, at least, they showed us why Celeste was with him. As horrible a human as he was, he had a very charming side, and he was drop-dead gorgeous to boot. He seemed to the outside world like a catch. But Nathan with Bonnie? They have yet to give us any clue what that's about.

The other thing is that I cannot buy for a second that Renata is a Meg Whitman-esque CEO.

In the first season, she seemed like an exceptionally capable businesswoman whose Achilles Heel was her fear of anything bad happening to her daughter. But the more we get to know her, the more she seems like a complete neurotic in general, with very little control over when she loses it.

Renata would have been dismissed a long time ago by the corporate good old boys as "too emotional," "too hysterical," and "no good in a crisis."