S08.E06: The Iron Throne

[Bannon]

58 minutes ago, RealReality said:

Wow, that would have been a really interesting path for bran.  I didn't really think there was an ending for bran that would have interested me and made sense, but your idea would have done both.

Good on you!

He probably had pod roll him back to his room so he could catch up on all the town gossip about his coronation.🤣

It was again due to my misplaced optimism that  I thought these writers would do something interesting with the rich religious cultures that Martin supplied them. We have followers of the Lord of Light who play a major role, after some hideously bloody missteps, in the defeat of the Night King. We have a student of the Many Faced God who actually deals the NK the death blow. The arrogantly fanatical adherents to the religion of Southern Westeros play a huge role in the dissolution of the Houses of Barratheon, Tyrell, and Lannister, and the travails of Kings Landing. Brienne specifically sees her duty through the prism of that religion. Bran, of course, is of the North, with its older, more nature-based religious traditions, and it seemed to me, as the repository of all historical knowlege of Westeros, he could be someone who could be a religous/cultural figure who helps draw together these diverse elements of this society, and acts as a counterbalance to explicitly secular political powers. Ya' know, like a complex human society.

This, however, requires writers who aren't phoning it in, as they begin planning their next payday. Oh well....

Edited May 24, 2019 by Bannon
typos

[iMonrey]

Quote

GreyWorm would have killed the shit out of Jon, not imprison him.

I don't know why this keeps coming up but it's one of the most commonly cited complaints. 

There are plenty of things about this finale that don't make any sense, but this isn't necessarily one of them. A lot of assumptions have to be made about how this all went down because the show didn't tell us.

I think we can safely assume Jon did not walk out of the Red Keep immediately after killing Dany, go straight to Grey Worm, and tell him what he'd just done. 

We have no idea how the info came out, except to assume that at some point Jon confessed to someone. It's important to remember that aside from the Unsullied and the Dothraki, Jon's own men from the North were part of the invading army. Doubtless they would have objected to Jon being executed by the Unsullied and the Unsullied have no motivation to go war with the North at this point. 

Bottom line, it wasn't Grey Worm's sole decision what to do with Jon. He wasn't entirely in charge of the situation and Jon's men from the North were there to protect him.

[JoeyCrown]

[catrice2]

On 5/22/2019 at 12:54 PM, Butless said:

Probably because Sansa says something about the men from the North being outside the gates or something to that affect ready to kill Jon, and Grey Worm says that they control the city.  

Regardless, it is difficult to to believe that the tired and outnumbered men of the North would have held off a hoard of Unsullied trying to get in to kill Jon.  Greyworm would have killed him and not cared that he would also be killed....had Missandei been alive I would have understood some of his actions, but he had lost her and Dany.... he had nothing else to lose and no reason NOT to seek revenge on Jon. 

[Umbelina]

The unsullied are a special group though.

Castrated as babies, ripped from their mothers, and drilled endlessly about obeying orders, killing, being walking war machines.  When Dany freed them, they really continued to do exactly the same things they had always done.  Followed ordered, resisting pain, and being killing machines.  Now, the order giver was designated, I suppose, as Grey Worm, but he is unused to that position, I can see him compromising.

Honestly, the ones I think would probably kill Jon would be Dothraki.  I'm trying to remember what they do when the Khal is killed, if they make sure the killer is dead before they elect a new Khal or not. 

The Dothraki (with their ever shrinking and growing numbers) however, were not even addressed in this finale.  For all we know they are currently pillaging through Dorne, since it's at least warm there, and they hated the cold, or maybe another dozen of the magically convenient ships will appear to take them home.

Just another unanswered question.

ETA

Go check the deleted scenes video in the media thread, what were they thinking deleting those?

Edited May 25, 2019 by Umbelina

[lmsweb]

I think, and of course this is just my opinion since I'm not GRRM or D&D, that Bran wasn't really able to do anything about Dany attacking KL and burning it all down. He could have told Jon what she planned to do, but I don't think it would have mattered. Tyrion and Varys also told Jon that was what she was going to do and he just kept parroting "she's my Queen". He had to see it for himself, and then realize during his convo with her after that she was hell bent on a my way or the highway method of ruling.  And even if he had managed to convince Jon, and Jon was able to stop her that time...who's to say the next time wouldn't have been Winterfell?

If you think about it, being the 3ER would be kind of a terrible job. You'd have to be witness to all the atrocities, past, present and possibly future, that mankind can inflict on itself and others and not really be able to do anything about it. And I'm still not convinced that Bran's foresight is as powerful as his ability to visit the past. The most we saw of his foresight were very brief glimpses - like the 2 second shot of a dragon flying over KL. His visits into the past, that we saw, were much more clearly detailed because they had already happened and were unalterable.

My fanwank is that Bran saw himself with Arya and Sansa at the meeting in KL. He may not have even realized why he was there until Tyrion nominated him.

[MrsR]

3 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Castrated as babies, ripped from their mothers, and drilled endlessly about obeying orders, killing, being walking war machines. 

Don't they also raise a dog and then kill it and finally graduate by taking a baby from a slave mother and killing it?

 That's very SS. They did the kill a puppy deal.

[GustavMahler]

I want to steer everyone to You Tube and search "Game of Thrones Season 8 pitch", produced by Screen Rant. It is quite funny and sums up the season beautifully....

[queenanne]

I feel like the reason we don't know anything about dragon behavior is because GRRM hasn't defined the rules of dragons (not inviting book talk, just speculating), and the showrunners are afraid of treading on his toes and making something up out of whole cloth.  I mean... what do you do, when you're encountered with a totally previously thought extinct species of reptiles (?) as big as castles?  Nobody knows what to do with them.  Everyone figures things out as they go along.  Maybe it would have been a good career path for someone like Sam; or at least Sam discovers some book on the care and feeding of dragons; but if there's nobody alive who can tell us what they do and are, and the first key to Dany's specialness is "Mother of Dragons"; then how does Dany stay special, if someone else has rival equivalent, or even superior, knowledge about dragons, KWIM? 

I'm thinking, specifically about stuff like my rare books class, which said that when reenactors tried to recreate the experience of the "scriptorium", they discovered that the one thing nobody could find, was written instructions on how to make a quill pen.  The assumed reason for not having any such thing, is that it was something that the Maester types did multiple times a week easily as breathing, because your goose feather writing point dulled so quickly.  Nobody perceived the appearance of the fountain pen, so nobody imagined a world where people wouldn't be making quill pens all day long and thus know everything to know about it.  Also, while I'm on the subject, what about the Library of Alexandria?  Nobody knows a damn thing about that nowadays, and the reason for that is because - it's extinct!

Personally, I've always envisioned dragons as horses with better eyesight and have been content with that, though then again that's just my own fertile imagination plus a dash of Naomi Novik, lol.

Edited May 25, 2019 by queenanne

[WatchrTina]

Today I'm cheerfully binge-watching Game of Thrones, beginning with the Red Wedding at the end of season 3, through the purple wedding (Joffrey's death) at the beginning of season 4, and now I'm into Dany's taking of Mereen, complete with the crucification of 163 of the citizens in retaliation for the crucified children they used as mile markers during her march to the city.

I have to say, re-watching this show -- especially the best episodes (and I think it's fair to say that seasons 3 and 4 were awesome) -- is VERY interesting with the benefit of hind-site.  Ruthless Dany was there, all along.

It's equally freaky to watch those episode and see Tormund nearly kill Jon when he realizes that Jon is still working for the Night's Watch.  Seriously, those who have time to do a complete re-watch are in for a real treat.  It's a whole different ride when you know how it ends.

Edited May 27, 2019 by WatchrTina

[Umbelina]

I love his Scottish voice, and also the points he makes.

Why did we not know or even deal with the citizens who did live through this?  Why is the council joking around after living through an apocalypse? 

Nothing about the book in this one, so I put it here for those avoiding some reviews that do reference the books quite a bit.

Edited May 25, 2019 by Umbelina

[RealReality]

Interesting, did we get an idea how much time had passed from the war until the meeting we saw?

I mean no one had noticeably aged so it hadn't been like 20 years, but nothing in KL looked destroyed, however they we're talking about rebuilding, so maybe like 5-7 years?  I guess that's long enough for some people to forget?

[DuckyinKy]

1 hour ago, RealReality said:

Interesting, did we get an idea how much time had passed from the war until the meeting we saw?

I mean no one had noticeably aged so it hadn't been like 20 years, but nothing in KL looked destroyed, however they we're talking about rebuilding, so maybe like 5-7 years?  I guess that's long enough for some people to forget?

I bow to everyone here who has such great views on the show, so I do not feel worthy answering. However if you mean from the time Tyrion was taken for treason until the meeting, he said he had a few weeks to do nothing but think. So, I don't think a great deal of time passed 

I wanted to ask, at the council meeting when Bran asked if there were any sightings of Drogon Sam said he was last spotted heading east to....and Bronn stopped him and said 
"the farther away the better." I wanted Sam to finish! I went to know where he took Dany, even though I can guess. 

[hypnotoad]

Quote

And, as he keeps saying, he isnt even Bran Stark anymore, he is the Three Eyed Raven,

The thing that got me during Tryion's long ass speech about making Bran king was he mentioned the 3 eyed raven thing. My question is - why isn't everyone up there (I mean besides Arya, Sansa and Davos) not asking 'what the hell is that and what the hell does that mean?' Everyone hears 3 eyed raven and goes yeah sounds like an excellent king.

In my head after Pod rolled Bran outta that meeting - Bran sat in front of the fire in his room petting a hairless cat on his lap and he cackled madly at how easy it was to become king. It absolutely happened.

Quote

he said he had a few weeks to do nothing but think

Yep and I have to say King's Landing was remarkably bustling and put together again for only a few weeks. Perhaps they hired those Iron born guys who built Urine 100's of ships from a treeless island. They seem pretty darn capable!

[millennium]

I don't much like the stars' backlash against fans who are disappointed with the final episode/season or the way big industry names are doing clean-up for D&D, from Kit Harington saying anyone who doesn't like it can go f*** themselves and Sophie Turner calling complaints "disrespectful" to Ronald D. Moore and Stephen King gushing about how great the last episode was (Moore having famously fumbled the Battlestar Galactica ending and King who hasn't written a decent ending in more than 30 years).

They make it seem those who complain belong to the rabid segment of fandom and their opinions ought to be brushed aside, as though they are members of an elite Storyteller Class and intuitively know better than the fans.    The impression I get of the so-called "rabid" critics is that they are mostly just people who loved the show for seven seasons and were heartbroken to see it turn to shit in the end.   

The head of HBO also went on record to say how wonderful the ending was, probably in response to the petition.  I know it will never happen but just once I would love to see somebody come forward and say, "The fans are right.   We blew it, and we're sorry."   But no one at the top is ever wrong, or sorry.

Edited May 26, 2019 by millennium

[RealReality]

I love Stephen king, so he can do no wrong in my book.  But yeah, it's disingenuous, IMO, to suggest that this was an amazing ending.  

People have a right to their opinion of course, and a lot of people liked the ending....but suggesting that it was an amazing ending or a fantastic ending is a bridge too far.

TBF, very few shows have a fantastic, amazing ending in my book.  Last one I remember was six feet under ...I still think about that ending.

I agree though, it's silly to get mad at fans because they didn't like the season or the ending.....if people have a right to like the ending they have the right not to like it too.

[CletusMusashi]

Honestly, the only person I can seriously see looking at Bran and saying "Yeah, I think he'd be a great king," is Lord Nippleboy of Crazyfort. We've seen that he loves stories. Tyrion actually used that technique to stall when he was on trial before him. And he's a scrawny off-putting little weirdo, so he might think "Wow, that guy's a born leader just like me." And finally, most importantly of all, he's obsessed with birds and flying. So telling him you're actually a raven is probably the best campaign speech you can make.

Edited May 26, 2019 by CletusMusashi

[Affogato]

18 hours ago, queenanne said:

I feel like the reason we don't know anything about dragon behavior is because GRRM hasn't defined the rules of dragons (not inviting book talk, just speculating), and the showrunners are afraid of treading on his toes and making something up out of whole cloth.  I mean... what do you do, when you're encountered with a totally previously thought extinct species of reptiles (?) as big as castles?  Nobody knows what to do with them.  Everyone figures things out as they go along.  Maybe it would have been a good career path for someone like Sam; or at least Sam discovers some book on the care and feeding of dragons; but if there's nobody alive who can tell us what they do and are, and the first key to Dany's specialness is "Mother of Dragons"; then how does Dany stay special, if someone else has rival equivalent, or even superior, knowledge about dragons, KWIM? 

I'm thinking, specifically about stuff like my rare books class, which said that when reenactors tried to recreate the experience of the "scriptorium", they discovered that the one thing nobody could find, was written instructions on how to make a quill pen.  The assumed reason for not having any such thing, is that it was something that the Maester types did multiple times a week easily as breathing, because your goose feather writing point dulled so quickly.  Nobody perceived the appearance of the fountain pen, so nobody imagined a world where people wouldn't be making quill pens all day long and thus know everything to know about it.  Also, while I'm on the subject, what about the Library of Alexandria?  Nobody knows a damn thing about that nowadays, and the reason for that is because - it's extinct!

Personally, I've always envisioned dragons as horses with better eyesight and have been content with that, though then again that's just my own fertile imagination plus a dash of Naomi Novik, lol.

All of the dragon handlers are dead. All of the dragon riders are dead. One can assume there was an apprenticeship to the dragon handling thing. How to keep your testicles from getting causht between the scales type of thing  

There may be more to be said if books were talked about here. 

The quill pen thing is i nteresting because I remember making them to draw with and it isn’t rocket science. Of course it would be much more precise for writing careful letters on parchment. 

[BitterApple]

On 5/24/2019 at 5:27 PM, JoeyCrown said:

Lmfaoooooo. Talk about a "Yeah, no shit Sherlock" moment!

[millennium]

5 hours ago, RealReality said:

I love Stephen king, so he can do no wrong in my book.  But yeah, it's disingenuous, IMO, to suggest that this was an amazing ending.  

SK lives in Maine, so I guess you could say he's a "King in the North."  

[Snowball II]

Isn't Stephen King friends with GRRM? 

[queenanne]

6 hours ago, CletusMusashi said:

Honestly, the only person I can seriously see looking at Bran and saying "Yeah, I think he'd be a great king," is Lord Nippleboy of Crazyfort. We've seen that he loves stories. Tyrion actually used that technique to stall when he was on trial before him. And he's a scrawny off-putting little weirdo, so he might think "Wow, that guy's a born leader just like me." And finally, most importantly of all, he's obsessed with birds and flying. So telling him you're actually a raven is probably the best campaign speech you can make.

I'm so super happy you brought that up, because to me, Robyn is, and was played and shown to us by the same actor when younger, as either mentally age-challenged or flat-out insane, and has no business being anywhere near a ruling council.  That creepy high-pitched cackle, and all the begging?  "Make him fly, Mother!"... kid clearly was five or six logs short of a full cabin.  He was old enough to understand that "making people fly" resulted in their death; or should have been, yet didn't give half a toot that it was actually going to result in their death, so... what happened in the interim to sane him up?

Edited May 26, 2019 by queenanne

[PatsyandEddie]

Littlefinger  got rid of his mother who was obviously a bad influence to say the least 

[Constantinople]

13 hours ago, millennium said:

The head of HBO also went on record to say how wonderful the ending was, probably in response to the petition.  I know it will never happen but just once I would love to see somebody come forward and say, "The fans are right.   We blew it, and we're sorry."   But no one at the top is ever wrong, or sorry. 

Because of the way the ending scene of Season 3 of Breaking Bad was shot, you could conclude that either X or Y happened. As it turned out X happened, and that's what Vince Gilligan intended to show. However, he admitted they screwed-up by creating the ambiguity when no ambiguity or cliffhanger was intended.

Still, that's rare to admit that.

[millennium]

7 minutes ago, Constantinople said:

Because of the way the ending scene of Season 3 of Breaking Bad was shot, you could conclude that either X or Y happened. As it turned out X happened, and that's what Vince Gilligan intended to show. However, he admitted they screwed-up by creating the ambiguity when no ambiguity or cliffhanger was intended.

Still, that's rare to admit that.

Given the stakes, it never occurred to me that Y happened.   But I can see what you mean.

[catrice2]

6 hours ago, BitterApple said:

Lmfaoooooo. Talk about a "Yeah, no shit Sherlock" moment!

I honestly thought it was meant as a joke as she sees one every time she looks in the mirror and was very proud of her skills....those who live in glass houses and all that...

[catrice2]

Gosh if I read one more comment on boards about Sansa's comment to the Hound.  Where were these people complaining when Grey Worm had to stand there and state his thanks for his slave name because it was the lucky name he had when she freed him...or when he told Missandei he was glad he was cut because if he was never cut he would never have had the chance to be freed by Dany and then meet her? 

So...Sansa's comment was not surprising to me because I saw what these writers were capable of a long time ago....I just hope Jacob Anderson and Nathalie Emmanuel have great career bumps....although Jacob is worse because his character got a promotion to a job he already had....and that was supposed to be his big thanks for sacrificing half of his men for a cause that was not even his...

[JonasArm]

Rewatching the episode and having to suffer endless talks from Tyrion I realised most of it was an excuse to give Peter Dinklage another shot at an award.

[CatS]

So...

Jon is King in the North of the North 

the Norther North?

the Northest North?

[catrice2]

49 minutes ago, JonasArm said:

Rewatching the episode and having to suffer endless talks from Tyrion I realised most of it was an excuse to give Peter Dinklage another shot at an award.

I am really going to be upset with anyone gets an Emmy for this, except possibly hairstyling, costume, score, set design, or cinematography.  I don't think anyone did any great acting this season.  

I am confident, however, that they will sweep the nominations and awards.  If Kit Harrington gets one...or the Bran actor I might start a petition...

[Nashville]

39 minutes ago, CatS said:

So...

Jon is King in the North of the North 

the Norther North?

the Northest North?

Jon is King of the Northiest North That Ever Northed!

(Like Smurfs, but different)

[Constantinople]

I've updated my previous post borrowing on Bon Jovi's song
Dany's stabbed through the heart
Jon Snow's to blame
He gives love
A bad name, bad name
Ignore the Imp
Don't play his game
You can't trust
His last name, last name

[GustavMahler]

3 hours ago, catrice2 said:

I am confident, however, that they will sweep the nominations and awards.  If Kit Harrington gets one...or the Bran actor I might start a petition

If Madame Toussaint's creates GOT wax figures, everyone will soon realize that the wax figure of Bran is the better actor.

[queenanne]

11 hours ago, catrice2 said:

I am really going to be upset with anyone gets an Emmy for this, except possibly hairstyling, costume, score, set design, or cinematography.  I don't think anyone did any great acting this season.  

I am confident, however, that they will sweep the nominations and awards.  If Kit Harrington gets one...or the Bran actor I might start a petition...

I'm pretty strong on the editors needing to win the Emmy, myself.  Some of the intercutting battle sequences were brilliantly timed IMO, falling like sword cuts themselves, if you know what I mean. 

I also wouldn't be mad if Maisie got a nomination or win.

[WatchrTina]

On 5/26/2019 at 3:18 PM, queenanne said:

so... what happened in the interim to sane him up?

Robin Arryn's crazy mother died and his devious step-father (Littlefinger) left, never to return, leaving him to the guidance of the lords of the Erie who -- it would seem -- had a positive effect on him.  You saw him glancing to the side to that most senior lord of the Erie (I've forgotten his name) before voting yes to install Bran as King.  So I would like to believe that he improved dramatically once he was removed from the influence of his crazy-pants mother and that he's learned the wisdom of listening to advisors who have more experience than him.

Edited May 28, 2019 by WatchrTina

[Minneapple]

12 hours ago, catrice2 said:

I am really going to be upset with anyone gets an Emmy for this, except possibly hairstyling, costume, score, set design, or cinematography.  I don't think anyone did any great acting this season.  

I am confident, however, that they will sweep the nominations and awards.  If Kit Harrington gets one...or the Bran actor I might start a petition...

Peter Dinklage will at least be nominated. And I think Maisie Williams deserves a nomination. 

I don't think Kit should be nominated, but I kind of want him to be, just because Richard Madden is sure to nab a nomination and I want Jon vs. Robb for the Emmy.

Edited May 27, 2019 by Minneapple

[Constantinople]

23 hours ago, queenanne said:

I'm so super happy you brought that up, because to me, Robyn is, and was played and shown to us by the same actor when younger, as either mentally age-challenged or flat-out insane, and has no business being anywhere near a ruling council.  That creepy high-pitched cackle, and all the begging?  "Make him fly, Mother!"... kid clearly was five or six logs short of a full cabin.  He was old enough to understand that "making people fly" resulted in their death; or should have been, yet didn't give half a toot that it was actually going to result in their death, so... what happened in the interim to sane him up?

Many of the council members had no business being on the council

Arya's an accomplished killer, but nothing suggests she's suited for governing, particularly considering her disdain for alliances. Plus, there should be only 1 Stark on the council. Not 3.

Bran is out to lunch

Sansa doesn't care about the South, so she shouldn't be making any decisions for it

Gendry is totally inexperienced as the newly installed Lord of Storm's End

Edmure sold out his men, his uncle and his homeland.

Davos is a minor lord whose power derives from serving others. He is not one of the most powerful people in the land. Even he aknowledged he shouldn't be there. Still, he has more sense than the rest of them put together (excepting Brienne), so I don't really mind.

Brienne is pledged to Sansa, another member of the council. Slight confict of interest. Nor has anyone suggested during the entire run of the show that Tarth is particularly powerful. Plus, she has little experience governing. But I don't mind for the same reason I don't mind Davos being on the council.

Sam's suggestion wasn't practical. Nor do I think having an oathbreaker on the council is a particularly good idea. These people should lead by example. Otherwise, it's just cronyism all over again

The lords who compared their subjects to dogs and horses.

[RealReality]

I think that keeping someone off the council because they are not a powerful enough lord is probably how it was done, but it's not a great idea.  I like the idea of davos on the council because I think he has the right temperment for it, he will take it seriously and he may end up being that voice for the people.

Most of the other council members...I agree, probably not well suited.  I'm not sure if these are the leaders who survived the whole thing?

I don't mind brienne on the council either, her commitment to Sansa and Arya is probably over and she has a strong sense of morality and she will actually think issues through from that perspective, but can be overruled if her position is too strict.  Also, it's not bad to have a woman on the council. And it shouldn't be Sansa because she would only ever think of putting northern causes first.

[JonasArm]

We

38 minutes ago, Constantinople said:

Arya's an accomplished killer, but nothing suggests she's suited for governing, particularly considering her disdain for alliances. Plus, there should be only 1 Stark on the council. Not 3. 

Bran is out to lunch

Sansa doesn't care about the South, so she shouldn't be making any decisions for it

and from what we get they all stay longer to decide other things like the fate of Jon Snow. The second the North is declared independent, half of the coucil should be out.

Edited May 27, 2019 by JonasArm

[Macbeth]

18 hours ago, JonasArm said:

Rewatching the episode and having to suffer endless talks from Tyrion I realised most of it was an excuse to give Peter Dinklage another shot at an award.

They had to have Peter do a lot of exposition as the storytelling was not there -especially the Bran part.

They did a lousy job of setting up the Bran is King arc - as in there was no arc. They had to have known for a couple of years that this was the end game and they did nothing. 

 At the very least they should have shown some of Tyrion's talk with Bran at the fireplace.  That could have given us a hint. But no. 

It"s clear they didn't know what to make of Bran's storyline. 

[RealReality]

1 minute ago, Macbeth said:

They had to have Peter do a lot of exposition as the storytelling was not there -especially the Bran part.

They did a lousy job of setting up the Bran is King arc - as in there was no arc. They had to have known for a couple of years that this was the end game and they did nothing. 

 At the very least they should have shown some of Tyrion's talk with Bran at the fireplace.  That could have given us a hint. But no. 

It"s clear they didn't know what to make of Bran's storyline. 

Maybe it was supposed to be an out of nowhere surprise, like "ha ha suckers, you thought it was gonna be Dany, then you thought it was gonna be Jon snow, but psych! it's bran! why do you think he travelled all this way?"

Or maybe they were hoping that fans would comb through past seasons and create clues that pointed to the ending.

[PatsyandEddie]

I only thought Arya was there for Jon. Same with Bran. Sansa is the Lady of Winterfell so she has a say as well as being there for her brother. 

[Bannon]

49 minutes ago, Macbeth said:

They had to have Peter do a lot of exposition as the storytelling was not there -especially the Bran part.

They did a lousy job of setting up the Bran is King arc - as in there was no arc. They had to have known for a couple of years that this was the end game and they did nothing. 

 At the very least they should have shown some of Tyrion's talk with Bran at the fireplace.  That could have given us a hint. But no. 

It"s clear they didn't know what to make of Bran's storyline. 

You'd have to put some effort in to resolve Bran's story, along with some other characters', and these two stiffs weren't interested in extending themselves, so the story just kept getting more disjointed, until we end up in up in Exposition-palooza, The Happiest Place on Earth for Lazy-Ass writers.  Ugh.

The more I think about the rich opportunities left on the shelf that these two bozos had available to them, the more irritated I become with what was served up to the audience.

[RealReality]

1 hour ago, PatsyandEddie said:

I only thought Arya was there for Jon. Same with Bran. Sansa is the Lady of Winterfell so she has a say as well as being there for her brother. 

Once she declared northern independence she had no place there.  And honestly, wouldn't the issue of Jon's fate really be in the hands of the council?  Which no one, but maybe Sansa had a right to be on.

I guess they could be there as moral support or as part of the northern entourage, but I don't think anyone else had multiple representatives.

Who got to be there for the dothraki who had their leader killed and had a vested interest since they could have habitated that land or at least realized some benefit from the conquered land.  They would have had more of a right to have multiple representatives for their lost interest, IMO.

Instead, as pointed out earlier, they fought multiple battles and lost multiple men just so they could give up any interest they had in the land?  And to have no say in the new government?  It seems odd to me.  However, people on this forum generally have a way better memory than I do, so there may be some logical explanation I've missed.

[Growsonwalls]

I think Alfie Allen deserves an Emmy nod for the great work he's done over the seasons as Theon. I'd say the same about Gwendolyn Christie, Nikolaj Coster-Waldau, Maisie Williams and Lena Headey. All of them did consistently great work over 8 seasons.

[catrice2]

Emmy nods are only for the current season....nobody did great work this season.  It is unfortunate if they were that good over the last eight seasons that they were not already recognized, but I think the Emmy's are a rigged system anyway.

[Growsonwalls]

I think it's kind of an outrage that Peter Dinklage has won three times. Not that I don't think he's great (he is) but Lena Headey, Maisie Williams, Nikolaj Coster Waldau, Alfie Allen, Gwendolyn Christie, Natalie Dormer, Diana Rigg, Iain Glen, Emilia Clarke, and Sophie Turner have all done great work. 

[catrice2]

10 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

I think it's kind of an outrage that Peter Dinklage has won three times. Not that I don't think he's great (he is) but Lena Headey, Maisie Williams, Nikolaj Coster Waldau, Alfie Allen, Gwendolyn Christie, Natalie Dormer, Diana Rigg, Iain Glen, Emilia Clarke, and Sophie Turner have all done great work. 

Yes. I know what you mean. They also like to try to reward people for a body of work in one year...for example Jon Hamm's best days as Don Draper were over the year he finally one the Emmy.  It was one of his worst years and worst writing, but somehow he won it...I'm sure based upon the fact it was the last year, they knew they had screwed him before and they were basically rewarding him for a period of work.  That's why as much as I think it is undeserved he someone from this show will win this year...or the show itself. 

[Growsonwalls]

Just now, catrice2 said:

Yes. I know what you mean. They also like to try to reward people for a body of work in one year...for example Jon Hamm's best days as Don Draper were over the year he finally one the Emmy.  It was one of his worst years and worst writing, but somehow he won it...I'm sure based upon the fact it was the last year, they knew they had screwed him before and they were basically rewarding him for a period of work.  That's why as much as I think it is undeserved he someone from this show will win this year...or the show itself. 

well I think Don Draper was an iconic character and it just seemed wrong that he never won an Emmy. I agree about his final season -- I remember screaming at my TV in the final episode "NO. DON DRAPER DOES NOT WEAR JEANS. NO, JUST NO."

But Mad Men is also an example of how a number of actors who did great work over the entire series were never rewarded. John Slattery, Christina Hendricks and Elisabeth Moss come to mind. Christina Hendricks in particular took Joan in a totally different direction than in season 1. I remember hating Joan in season 1, and by the final season there were times when I still hated Joan, but Hendricks really also made the character's good traits stand out.

[CeeBeeGee]

1 hour ago, Growsonwalls said:

I think it's kind of an outrage that Peter Dinklage has won three times. Not that I don't think he's great (he is) but Lena Headey, Maisie Williams, Nikolaj Coster Waldau, Alfie Allen, Gwendolyn Christie, Natalie Dormer, Diana Rigg, Iain Glen, Emilia Clarke, and Sophie Turner have all done great work. 

If you can believe it, Michelle Fairley was not nominated for Season 3 when the Red Wedding aired. That SCENE! When she just lost it and wailed over Robb's body! Her face was absolutely distorted by grief, as though it had chemically changed, as though she'd lost bone mass underneath. WTF fell asleep and did not submit her for that scene, or who on the Emmy committee did not nominate her for that work? She was amazing.

And it is a crime that Nikolaj C-W was not nominated for his monologue in the bathtub to Brienne. Just incredible work. "Jaime...my name is Jaime..."

I think Emilia has a strong chance to get another Supporting Actress nomination. To the extent that we bought Dany's going rogue so quickly, was in large part due to Emilia's selling it. Honestly D/D should give her a bonus for acting the shit out of the un-actable, stupid and makes-no-sense writing beats she was given this season.