S08.E05: The Bells

[proserpina65]

25 minutes ago, sumiregusa said:

Game of Thrones is spending its last hours ruining Daenerys Targaryen

I think reading this would benefit everyone at this point.

Sorry, but I disagree with the article, and with the idea that this was some kind of sudden character assassination.  The seeds for this were planted all the way back in Season 2, imo.

22 minutes ago, kelseykixx said:

For years we've followed all these "royal" bloodlines who have shown utter disdain for the common people, except maybe dreadfully noble Jon, and all of a sudden I'm supposed to be attached to and care about a random woman and her daughter that were introduced for 10 minutes? 

I didn't care about royal bloodlines.  I did, however, care about the many thousands of innocent people who Dany killed.

[rmontro]

2 minutes ago, terrymct said:

The author of that article is doing the same thing many other people are doing:  ignoring the signs all through Dany's ascent that pointed to her being capable of killing in a rage.

I don't think people are ignoring the hints that they've dropped about Dany over the years.  The dots are there if you WANT to connect them, or if you are a WRITER who wants to bring about a certain conclusion.  But bottom line is, I just don't buy it.  The show failed to sell it to me.  Dany was a force for good for the vast majority of the show, and the main reason she turned villain at the end is because the writers wanted her to.  That's what it feels like.  Not because it's the natural progression for the character.

[GodsBeloved]

2 hours ago, Constantinople said:

Then why did Jaime kill the Mad King?

Based on that quote in this episode, it sounds a lot less like he was trying to save the city, and a lot more like he was trying to save his own ass, and possibly his father's.

Cersei was probably in the city that day

[Bryce Lynch]

9 minutes ago, kokapetl said:

RIP Qyburn. I hate to see the highly intelligent lose to ugly violence, even when it’s their own damn fault for reviving a 7 foot tall muscle man who had been dead for at least a month. 

I was wondering if The Mountain would be loyal to Cersei or Qyburn (who actually reanimated him) first is push came to shove.  Turns out, neither, when a chance to kill his baby brother was involved.

[sumiregusa]

2 minutes ago, rmontro said:

I don't think people are ignoring the hints that they've dropped about Dany over the years.  The dots are there if you WANT to connect them, or if you are a WRITER who wants to bring about a certain conclusion.  But bottom line is, I just don't buy it.  The show failed to sell it to me.  Dany was a force for good for the vast majority of the show, and the main reason she turned villain at the end is because the writers wanted her to.  That's what it feels like.  Not because it's the natural progression for the character.

Pretty much all I've been trying to say.

[proserpina65]

1 minute ago, sumiregusa said:

Not to cut you off at the knees but...you are kind of missing the point. It doesn't seem like a one-side argument to me, it seems like someone presenting the facts as the show presented them to the audience. The same writers who wrote this episode wrote all the episodes before. They're introducing plot points in the 11th hour that are contradictory to their own story. It's bad writing, period.

Now whether or not you have agreed with every choice Dany has made over the course of the entire show is definitely another discussion. The only "arguments" I have seen repeated are about the Tarlys. She listened to her advisor (Tyrion) asking her to allow Randall to take the Black. She hesitated, turned to him, and gave him the chance to accept. He denied the offer. He was a traitor and he was executed for it. Dickon stood with his father due to his own stupidity. That is what happened. Burnniinnng someone aliiiive oh my goooshhhh well no one seems to mind when it happens to bad guys so why is this different?

I'm not a Dany apologist. I don't have a problem with setting her up to be "The Mad Queen" if that's really what they want. But guess what? They did more telling than showing, they used other characters reaching outside their normal faculties to prop up bad plot devices. It wasn't done well at all. That's exactly what the article says.

Her entire arc in Essos after Drogo died planted the seeds for this episode.  She was perfectly willing to burn Astapor and Yunkai to the ground while they were at war with Meereen, completely disregarding the fact that most of the citizens of those cities were once again enslaved.

So no, not just the Tarlys.

[Law Mom]

Another oopsie. Jaime's hand magically grew back!

 https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/game-of-thrones-jaime-lannister-hand-season-8-episode-5

[sumiregusa]

Just now, proserpina65 said:

Her entire arc in Essos after Drogo died planted the seeds for this episode.  She was perfectly willing to burn Astapor and Yunkai to the ground while they were at war with Meereen, completely disregarding the fact that most of the citizens of those cities were once again enslaved.

So no, not just the Tarlys.

Perfectly willing and acting on that will are two different things. By that same stretch, every single person on this show is a piece of shit due to their natural impulses. It's a slippery slope to roast one person for that and not any of the others.

[Bannon]

45 minutes ago, Constantinople said:

Attention! Attention!

The Golden Company is under new management and now doing business as The Golden Crispy Company

That is all

So what happens to the loan committee at The Iron Bank, after they make the worst risk assessment this side of betting on the Poland's army in September of 1939? The House of Black and White is called in to assist in a management shake-up?

[VCRTracking]

14 minutes ago, kelseykixx said:

They really bungled Tyrion's character the past two seasons. It's gotten to the point where I'm ANNOYED when he's on screen because I know he's going to make some stupid, ill-informed decision. Which is sad because his scenes always used to be the most interesting and exciting. I'm just so sick of watching him mope around offering up terrible suggestions then being aghast at Dany when things obviously go awry. Maybe she wouldn't have gone mad if her advisers weren't such traitorous assholes.

When he was first Hand it was to someone completely unsuitable and incompetent like Joffrey and he was more calculating, spending a lot of time undermining him and dealing behind his back. When he became Hand again he was trying to be more straightforward because it was a ruler he believed in but that person was someone who relied a lot on their own charisma more than his advice. Basically he went from being Dick Cheney to Joe Biden.

Edited May 13, 2019 by VCRTracking

[proserpina65]

Just now, sumiregusa said:

Perfectly willing and acting on that will are two different things. By that same stretch, every single person on this show is a piece of shit due to their natural impulses. It's a slippery slope to roast one person for that and not any of the others.

She didn't act on it because Tyrion was still able to dissuade her.  She's past the point of listening to anyone now.

Like I said, it's just my opinion, but for me, the writers sufficiently laid down a path to this point for Dany.

And yes, a lot of other characters have done awful things too, and I've always been perfectly willing to criticize them as well.  Dany's the only one roasting anybody.  (Well, her and Cersei.)

[Efzee]

So, this is all part of Bran's masterplan, right?

Maybe the folks on here who've been saying for weeks that maybe he/3ER is the truly evil were actually right. He did push Sam to tell Jon about his true parentage at pretty much the worst possible moment and all of that lead to Dany burning down KL...

[Bryce Lynch]

Just now, Law Mom said:

Another oopsie. Jaime's hand magically grew back!

 https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/game-of-thrones-jaime-lannister-hand-season-8-episode-5

Does this mean Qyburn posthumously gets to be a Grand Maester, as Jaime joked would happen if he regrew Jaime's hand, back in Season 3.  

[JennyMominFL]

Just found out a friend of mine was an extra in the kings landing scenes

[Constantinople]

I need to cheer myself up

* Puts on The Red Wedding episode *

[tv-talk]

7 minutes ago, sumiregusa said:

Dany was a force for good for the vast majority of the show, and the main reason she turned villain at the end is because the writers wanted her to.  That's what it feels like.  Not because it's the natural progression for the character.

What exactly is the difference between slaughtering innocent people in Essos vs Westeros? What do we think the Dothraki and Unsullied were doing to the women and children during Dany's previous conquests? It's not really out of character that she would justify killing all those civilians.

[sumiregusa]

1 minute ago, proserpina65 said:

She didn't act on it because Tyrion was still able to dissuade her.  She's past the point of listening to anyone now.

Like I said, it's just my opinion, but for me, the writers sufficiently laid down a path to this point for Dany.

And yes, a lot of other characters have done awful things too, and I've always been perfectly willing to criticize them as well.  Dany's the only one roasting anybody.  (Well, her and Cersei.)

Right so...she listened to her advisor. She showed her rational mind, she backtracked, she did the right thing. Shouldn't everybody be given credit when they take someone's good advice? Is the argument "oh well you initially wanted to do something bad so you're bad"??

You're totally entitled to your opinion. Never tried to change it. Just stating what I see to be true based on the story we have been told. 

Saying "roast" was a hilarious choice of words on my part, I'll give you that. 

[RealReality]

6 minutes ago, sumiregusa said:

Not to cut you off at the knees but...you are kind of missing the point. It doesn't seem like a one-side argument to me, it seems like someone presenting the facts as the show presented them to the audience. The same writers who wrote this episode wrote all the episodes before. They're introducing plot points in the 11th hour that are contradictory to their own story. It's bad writing, period.

Now whether or not you have agreed with every choice Dany has made over the course of the entire show is definitely another discussion. The only "arguments" I have seen repeated are about the Tarlys. She listened to her advisor (Tyrion) asking her to allow Randall to take the Black. She hesitated, turned to him, and gave him the chance to accept. He denied the offer. He was a traitor and he was executed for it. Dickon stood with his father due to his own stupidity. That is what happened. Burnniinnng someone aliiiive oh my goooshhhh well no one seems to mind when it happens to bad guys so why is this different?

I'm not a Dany apologist. I don't have a problem with setting her up to be "The Mad Queen" if that's really what they want. But guess what? They did more telling than showing, they used other characters reaching outside their normal faculties to prop up bad plot devices. It wasn't done well at all. That's exactly what the article says.

I have a problem with the tarly death because there is a difference in how you kill good guys vs. how you kill bad guys.

If you must kill a good guy you can do so in a dignified way.  You need not burn them alive.  I wouldn't call Randal tarly good because he treated Sam shitty, but he made an honorable choice.

Dickons choice wasn't logical, but it was honorable.  His father's choice was honorable too, even though it wasn't a choice Dany liked.

There was no need to kill them in gruesome way.  

[Uncle JUICE]

2 minutes ago, Bannon said:

So what happens to the loan committee at The Iron Bank, after they make the worst risk assessment this side of betting on the Poland's army in September of 1939? The House of Black and White is called in to assist in a management shake-up?

This now belongs right underneath my complaints about the senselessness of the Varys stuff (wherein the Master of Whisperers to at least three kings is somehow caught doing the Westeros equivalent of sending criminal emails from your personal computer located in your home). The Iron Bank, if they were soooooooooo good with money, would have absolutely not have lent a single dime to Cersei. "Before we look into that, can you please inform us of your anti-dragon technology? Because if we give you enough money to ferry an army of 20000 sellswords here, and, let's just say someone's Master of Whisperers gets word that they're en route over the sea, I'm just curious as to what happens to our money if the dragons were to, say, drop out of the sky and burn the ships out from under them. It's difficult to get insurance against dragons...oh what's that? A big crossbow on the ships, you say. Interesting. But for real, though, like what are you doing about the dragons? Is there answer REALLY this big cross bow? How many do you currently have that we can outfit to ships? What's their effective range? Sorry, but we are going to pass on this investment, your grace." 

[Cammi]

Sorry, this is 100% bull and I ain't buying. Dany turns mad queen in 5 minutes? After years of freeing slaves and punishing those who harm the innocent? Nah, not buying this new genocidal maniac character arc. Everyone saying "Well it was coming on for years?" Oh really? When? I didn't see her act all THAT different than any male character has on this show when faced with a challenge, if anything she handled it better! I was never a Dany fan, but dang if I'm not rooting for her crazy ass now. Lazy ass writing. I'll be boycotting anything D&D do in the future. 

And wtf happened to the Golden Company? Like, where they go? And Drogon was suddenly unstoppable, and those scorpions suddenly ineffective! Dany and Jon didn't think to ride ahead of the Dothraki in ep 4 and burn the white walkers? But dang if that ONE dragon wasn't more effective than a nuclear bomb THIS episode. My hiney. 

[JennyMominFL]

Years ago Dany said she would burn cities to the ground to take the Iron throne.  And she did.

Edited May 13, 2019 by JennyMominFL

[Bannon]

One thing's for certain; Sandor's skull was a lot thicker than Oberyn's....

[Uncle JUICE]

1 minute ago, RealReality said:

I have a problem with the tarly death because there is a difference in how you kill good guys vs. how you kill bad guys.

If you must kill a good guy you can do so in a dignified way.  You need not burn them alive.  I wouldn't call Randal tarly good because he treated Sam shitty, but he made an honorable choice.

You could argue that burning them instantly like that is in fact far more dignified. When they decapitate you, you shit yourself. Randall Tarly's choice to betray Olenna makes him a traitor, and a bad guy, to Danerys's side. 

[proserpina65]

1 minute ago, sumiregusa said:

Right so...she listened to her advisor. She showed her rational mind, she backtracked, she did the right thing. Shouldn't everybody be given credit when they take someone's good advice? Is the argument "oh well you initially wanted to do something bad so you're bad"??

She was given credit for listening to her advisors.  The difference now is that she no longer is listening.  Plus, the one she trusted the most (Jorah) is dead.

[tv-talk]

1 minute ago, Cammi said:

And Drogon was suddenly unstoppable, and those scorpions suddenly ineffective!

Yeah that was pretty stupid. Apparently they got lucky hitting one dragon 4x in a row from 1500ft below but couldnt get a single good shot on Drogon whose fire is now a battering ram as well. It looked cool at least.

[Coxfires]

19 minutes ago, rmontro said:

I don't think people are ignoring the hints that they've dropped about Dany over the years.  The dots are there if you WANT to connect them, or if you are a WRITER who wants to bring about a certain conclusion.  But bottom line is, I just don't buy it.  The show failed to sell it to me.  Dany was a force for good for the vast majority of the show, and the main reason she turned villain at the end is because the writers wanted her to.  That's what it feels like.  Not because it's the natural progression for the character.

I guess it is all subjective and depends on how each relate to a character. I always was neutral about Daenerys, so I can't say I am surprised to see her go there, I just feel it was rushed. I remember thinking she was being hypocritical when she state she wanted to break the wheel but still wanted to be on the IT. She did have a savior complex, she needed to feel loved by the people, and I will admit that seeing everyone betraying her, losing 2 dragons and her best friend, plus knowing there was someone else that could win favors better than her in Westeros was a lot in little time. Conquering Westeros went far differently than what she planned. But we did not see and actual rejection of Dany by the common folk, so her latching out on them came out of left field. We needed more episodes to build up to there.

I don't think her character was assassinated, but as I say, she was never the character I connected with, I can see how it is different for people who related to her.

Edited May 13, 2019 by Coxfires

[ElectricBoogaloo]

6 minutes ago, JennyMominFL said:

Just found out a friend of mine was an extra in the kings landing scenes

In the Game Revealed video, the production staff said they had 650 extras for those scenes. I can't imagine trying to wrangle that many people at once!

[Scaeva]

7 minutes ago, terrymct said:

"While she has certainly let her anger get the better of her at times..."

The author of that article is doing the same thing many other people are doing:  ignoring the signs all through Dany's ascent that pointed to her being capable of killing in a rage.

The writer of that article simply hasn't been paying attention to the series.

There were plenty of warning signs that Dany was a ruthless queen. Her first instincts have often been toward violent solutions to problems and she's been threatening to destroy cities for several seasons now. Is it really that shocking that she finally did the thing she's been threatening to do for years?

Sure, she's often listened to advisers and pulled back from some of her worst instincts. But the fact remains that those instincts have always been there. It is who she's always been.

The difference now is that most of those advisers are dead - and one of them called on Dany to destroy King's Landing with her dying breath - as are two of her dragons, and she's been confronted by a civilian populace that is much more ambivalent toward her rule. They're not slaves, so they're not going to throw open the gates and proclaim her the breaker of chains. To them she's just one more bloody-minded claimant in a long list of them. The revelation that Jon has a better claim to the throne than her has not helped.

It is not a bait and switch that when now faced with the more adversity in the form of isolation (dead/untrustworthy advisers), lost dragons, lost legitimacy of her claim to the throne, lost love (a marriage could keep Jon subordinate, plus his severing their romantic tie adds to her increasing isolation), and a civilian populace that isn't rolling out the welcome mat that she expected, that she finally gave into her worst instincts.

Could it have been handled better by the writers, with her transition being developed better? Absolutely, but it is not a bait and switch. The writing has been on the wall for several seasons now that Daenerys had the potential to be a tyrant.

[DarkRaichu]

26 minutes ago, Constantinople said:

Scenes I liked in this episode

• Tyrion ratting out Varys and saying goodbye to him
• Arya calling The Hound by his name, Sandor

Scenes I didn't like

• Just about everything else

What? No love for Jamie & Tyrion goodbye scene?  It was the reverse of when Jamie released Tyrion from Tywin's prison

[SueB]

Didn't find this posted:

Also, it's pretty clear it's the gold hand ... just really dirty ... that Jamie is hugging Cersei with.

[Bryce Lynch]

13 minutes ago, Bannon said:

So what happens to the loan committee at The Iron Bank, after they make the worst risk assessment this side of betting on the Poland's army in September of 1939? The House of Black and White is called in to assist in a management shake-up?

Maybe they will come after the last living member of House Lannister, Tyrion. :)

9 minutes ago, JennyMominFL said:

Just found out a friend of mine was an extra in the kings landing scenes

Regular or extra crispy? 

[JennyMominFL]

6 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

In the Game Revealed video, the production staff said they had 650 extras for those scenes. I can't imagine trying to wrangle that many people at once!

He has been hinting about it for a while but only fully revealed it today. There are a couple of clear shots of him . Im. hoping he spills some details. My other friend was the white walker sam killed and the one who delivered the baby. He has some stories

ETA.. I just asked him if he ended up original recipe of extra crispy

Edited May 13, 2019 by JennyMominFL

[Kanner]

27 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

If Varys wanted to rally support for someone else, he should have fled Dany's camp and declared for Jon or whomever.  

Trying to poison her was way beyond the pale.   

Varys supported Dany until he heard that Jon (who was weaker and he thought he could control) could be on the throne instead.   He was looking out for himself, not "the realm".  The idiot writers made him "right", but he had no new information to make him think Dany was a Mad Queen, as opposed to the great ruler he claimed to believe she would be shortly before.

The writers made a lot of people "right" including Sansa and Arya but for the wrong reasons. At least in Varys' case he raised concerns (true or not) last season.

I agree about Varys.  Why did he stay? Especially after he spoke to Jon. That should have been his cue to leave. 

[Bryce Lynch]

3 minutes ago, DarkRaichu said:

What? No love for Jamie & Tyrion goodbye scene?  It was the reverse of when Jamie released Tyrion from Tywin's prison

I liked the Tyrion/Jaime farewell, but I didn't really buy that the guards just left them alone, without clearing it with the Queen first. 

[tv-talk]

1 minute ago, Coxfires said:

I don't think her character was assassinated, but as I say, sur was never the character I connected with, I can see how it is different for people who related to her.

So much of the talk around the show was tied to feminism and strong female characters that Dany behaving like...basically every GoT character aside from Jon was going to bother lots of people who expected the more Hollywood move of benevolent Dany saving KL from evil Cersei. I think big point of the show is that generally the people who want power will do anything for it and without much concern for the common person.

Dany said it herself, she was not loved and would NEVER be loved there the way Jon would have been. She killed all those people because they were a threat to her rule, she decided for herself that 1mill commoners who didnt want her there was never going to work, so she annihilated them to the point that no one will ever question her again out of FEAR. She said it herself and it isnt "madness" it's cold and calculating (ok dragonfire hot and calculating"

[Constantinople]

Now I'm imaging how Breaking Bad would have ended if D&D wrote the final season

Spoiler

Hank joins the Neo Nazi band and together they kill Walter

Because that's essentially what they did with Daenerys

[RealReality]

4 minutes ago, Uncle JUICE said:

You could argue that burning them instantly like that is in fact far more dignified. When they decapitate you, you shit yourself. Randall Tarly's choice to betray Olenna makes him a traitor, and a bad guy, to Danerys's side. 

You could argue that the moon is made of green cheese.  But being roasted alive as you scream in agony sounds far less dignified then a beheading, and I think the dignity of a beheading is the reason it was used for royal executions for years.

The only thing that got the tarlys killed was that they followed another leader that wasn't Dany.  That doesn't make them bad guys anymore than anyone who simply chose another leader is a bad guy 

[Uncle JUICE]

1 minute ago, DarkRaichu said:

What? No love for Jamie & Tyrion goodbye scene?  It was the reverse of when Jamie released Tyrion from Tywin's prison

Not from me, nope. It was perhaps the LEAST sensible scene in the entire show, and clearly only there to try to elicit this emotional reaction from us as viewers. This scene was this week's version of the Bronn scene from last week. How on fucking earth does this make sense? Tyrion going into the tent in the first place makes him a traitor and signs his death warrant for next week. He pulls rank on the gaurds at the tent, 'who ordered you, because they're not as high up the org chart as me?' when the answer is clearly GREY WORM, who is the queen's military commander. He does not report to Tyrion. One of them absolutely would have said "Grey Worm said the queen commands it, go talk to him first, bring him back here if you like. Sorry, I can't help you on this one. And we know there's a battle tomorrow, we have shift changes you know."

I guess good thing though because the second Grey Worm comes back, he would arrest Tyrion and bring him to Danerys who would have rightfully burned him too. They'd have found the key on Tyrion, which meant he was about to free the prisoner. 

[kieyra]

Just now, Constantinople said:

Now I'm imaging how Breaking Bad would have ended if D&D wrote the final season

Funny you say that. Vince Gilligan has a certain level of unquestioning internet worship among a certain demographic that I sometimes find frustrating, but ...

Damn if I haven't been thinking, "They really needed to bring in someone who pays attention to detail to clean up these last couple of seasons ... like maybe Vince Gilligan."

[terrymct]

16 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Does this mean Qyburn posthumously gets to be a Grand Maester, as Jaime joked would happen if he regrew Jaime's hand, back in Season 3.  

If Qyburn was involved, that regrown hand would be all grey and creepy looking.

[Macbeth]

Robert Baratheon's army raped and murdered citizens of King's Landing after the gates were opened and it was his last act before he won the throne.

Dany burned them to the ground. 

There are no surgical strikes.  Civilians are the victims whenever there is war.  There is no safe place to hide.  And any survivors, like Arya, are thinking of revenge.

When armies are used - people are not being liberated but are being conquered.

I liked this episode as it was a reflection of modern warfare.  I thought of bombs not dragon fire.  All of those ashes.  Like ashes from a nuclear bomb.  Like ashes from 9/11.  Like ashes from the wars in Iraq and Syria.

Edited May 13, 2019 by Macbeth

[Scaeva]

1 minute ago, Uncle JUICE said:

Not from me, nope. It was perhaps the LEAST sensible scene in the entire show, and clearly only there to try to elicit this emotional reaction from us as viewers. This scene was this week's version of the Bronn scene from last week. How on fucking earth does this make sense? Tyrion going into the tent in the first place makes him a traitor and signs his death warrant for next week. He pulls rank on the gaurds at the tent, 'who ordered you, because they're not as high up the org chart as me?' when the answer is clearly GREY WORM, who is the queen's military commander. He does not report to Tyrion. One of them absolutely would have said "Grey Worm said the queen commands it, go talk to him first, bring him back here if you like. Sorry, I can't help you on this one. And we know there's a battle tomorrow, we have shift changes you know."

I guess good thing though because the second Grey Worm comes back, he would arrest Tyrion and bring him to Danerys who would have rightfully burned him too. They'd have found the key on Tyrion, which meant he was about to free the prisoner. 

Grey Worm is not higher up in the organizational hierarchy than Tyrion. Hands of the Queen/King are second *only* to the monarch in terms of the power they wield. 

Grey Worm was merely the commander of some of the military forces, and not even all of them, as a good portion of that army is there because of Jon. Grey Worm is high up in the hierarchy for sure, but he's below Tyrion. Hands are always the senior members of the small councils.

[DarkRaichu]

2 minutes ago, Uncle JUICE said:

Not from me, nope. It was perhaps the LEAST sensible scene in the entire show, and clearly only there to try to elicit this emotional reaction from us as viewers. This scene was this week's version of the Bronn scene from last week. How on fucking earth does this make sense? Tyrion going into the tent in the first place makes him a traitor and signs his death warrant for next week. He pulls rank on the gaurds at the tent, 'who ordered you, because they're not as high up the org chart as me?' when the answer is clearly GREY WORM, who is the queen's military commander. He does not report to Tyrion. One of them absolutely would have said "Grey Worm said the queen commands it, go talk to him first, bring him back here if you like. Sorry, I can't help you on this one. And we know there's a battle tomorrow, we have shift changes you know."

I guess good thing though because the second Grey Worm comes back, he would arrest Tyrion and bring him to Danerys who would have rightfully burned him too. They'd have found the key on Tyrion, which meant he was about to free the prisoner. 

3 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I liked the Tyrion/Jaime farewell, but I didn't really buy that the guards just left them alone, without clearing it with the Queen first. 

Jamie is Tyrion's plot armor. Everyone has a plot armor, let Tyrion have this small one 😄

[Affogato]

1 hour ago, Drogo said:

I don't think it's considered paranoia if people really are betraying and conspiring against you.

Yeah, that’s the joke. But yes, still paranoia. Implies an extreme, even debilitating reaction as opposed to a reasonable one. 

[kieyra]

3 minutes ago, Uncle JUICE said:

Not from me, nope. It was perhaps the LEAST sensible scene in the entire show, and clearly only there to try to elicit this emotional reaction from us as viewers. This scene was this week's version of the Bronn scene from last week. How on fucking earth does this make sense?

I had much the same reaction to both scenes as you. They ticked the "final Tyrion/Jamie" scene off a checklist without bothering to make it make any goddamned sense when viewed from almost any angle. 

[Bannon]

6 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Maybe they will come after the last living member of House Lannister, Tyrion. 

Relative to the loss, Tyrion has about as much available to squeeze as one of Bernie Madoff's kids did.

[Uncle JUICE]

2 minutes ago, RealReality said:

You could argue that the moon is made of green cheese.  But being roasted alive as you scream in agony sounds far less dignified then a beheading, and I think the dignity of a beheading is the reason it was used for royal executions for years.

The only thing that got the tarlys killed was that they followed another leader that wasn't Dany.  That doesn't make them bad guys anymore than anyone who simply chose another leader is a bad guy 

Dignity is subjective, I'll give you that, but you're underselling Tarly's treason against his liege lord, Danerys's ally, Olenna. Without Tarly turning cloak on her, Highgarden has a better chance fighting off the Lannister army. He didn't choose to follow someone other than Danerys, he chose to betray the Tyrells (I believe he did so in order to become Lord of the Reach, too), and that's very simply treason, and that led at least in part to Dany's forces being hobbled, significantly. Gold and food and forces, all gone too easily because the Tarlys and their forces didn't keep their oath. 

[Bryce Lynch]

1 minute ago, tv-talk said:

So much of the talk around the show was tied to feminism and strong female characters that Dany behaving like...basically every GoT character aside from Jon was going to bother lots of people who expected the more Hollywood move of benevolent Dany saving KL from evil Cersei. I think big point of the show is that generally the people who want power will do anything for it and without much concern for the common person.

Dany said it herself, she was not loved and would NEVER be loved there the way Jon would have been. She killed all those people because they were a threat to her rule, she decided for herself that 1mill commoners who didnt want her there was never going to work, so she annihilated them to the point that no one will ever question her again out of FEAR. She said it herself and it isnt "madness" it's cold and calculating (ok dragonfire hot and calculating"

But that would be based upon a false premise.  In general the commoners would obey whoever's butt was polishing the Iron Throne.  Once she proved herself as a fair and just Queen they would have grown to love her.   They were no threat to her.

A better argument might be that it was a message to Jon, Tyrion, Grey Worm and Davos, and any other people close to her that, if they ever betrayed her, she would take it out on the commoners, though I'm not sure I buy that either.   Those men would give their own lives to protect the innocent, but would be reluctant to risk the lives of the innocent to overthrow a Queen they no longer supported.  

2 minutes ago, DarkRaichu said:

Jamie is Tyrion's plot armor. Everyone has a plot armor, let Tyrion have this small one 😄

Short jokes, really?  Well, at least you didn't explain it, like Euron. :)

[GodsBeloved]

2 hours ago, Neurochick said:

I think one of the reasons I liked the episode is because I never, ever saw Dany as a hero at all.  To me she was too much "white savior" trope for my taste.  I hated that scene when the slaves were carrying her around, like she was some kind of "white goddess."  UGH, I think I started hating her then.

I always preferred the Starks, to me the show that began with them, should end with them.  I have always liked Sansa and more now, because despite, or maybe because of the hell she went through, she knows what is important to her, remember when she kept asking Dany, "what about the north?"  Dany didn't say a word to her, nothing, no, "of course you can rule the north Sansa, it's yours."  But not a thing.  That bugged me.  

So Dany burning everything in sight didn't surprise me one bit.  So many actual rulers get that taste of power and say, "fuck all of you."  And let's not forget last season when she burned Sam's father and brother because they refused to "bend the knee."  

I never got to the point of hating Daenerys and I think it's because I was so indifferent to her but besides that, I think I just met my twin LOL

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To me she was too much "white savior" trope for my taste.  I hated that scene when the slaves were carrying her around, like she was some kind of "white goddess." 

Yep

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I always preferred the Starks

Yep

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I have always liked Sansa and more now, because despite, or maybe because of the hell she went through

Yep Yep

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she kept asking Dany, "what about the north?"

I said in another episode thread that since Robb was crowned KITN I have wanted the North's independence.

[Coxfires]

1 minute ago, tv-talk said:

So much of the talk around the show was tied to feminism and strong female characters that Dany behaving like...basically every GoT character aside from Jon was going to bother lots of people who expected the more Hollywood move of benevolent Dany saving KL from evil Cersei. I think big point of the show is that generally the people who want power will do anything for it and without much concern for the common person.

Dany said it herself, she was not loved and would NEVER be loved there the way Jon would have been. She killed all those people because they were a threat to her rule, she decided for herself that 1mill commoners who didnt want her there was never going to work, so she annihilated them to the point that no one will ever question her again out of FEAR. She said it herself and it isnt "madness" it's cold and calculating (ok dragonfire hot and 

See, I am a very independent woman myself but I totally agree: it isn't about feminism it is about how power corrupts and how even people with the best intentions initially can fall to their worst side. We are all primarily selfish, and no one is pure good or pure Evil. The fact that so many people were divided between Sansa/Dany and this episode shows that we all have things that make us react differently, opinions and POV that are just not the same. And for this episode i Feel this is the same case: some will say Dany would never do such a thing, some will say they saw it coming. In the end, I really find this episode fascinating on that aspect, as rushed as it was