S38.E10: Blood of a Blindside

[amazingracefan]

The second boot made it a more interesting episode.

Aurora giving her advantage away was just stupidity, makes you wonder if she's even watched the show.

[PaperTree]

4 hours ago, bunnyface said:

You know what else we're missing this season?  Blindfolded people running into things.  I wouldn't mind seeing Warthog running his 'nads into some fenceposts.  Just me?

No, me too 🙂

There is still time for this to happen.....

[fishcakes]

5 hours ago, Artymouse said:

This is my first season watching Survivor

Oooh, sorry it sucks so hard. I'm not ready to say this is the worst season yet, but it's down there. When Survivor finally ends, season 30 Worlds Apart is probably still going to be the worst of all time, but this season is definitely shaping up to challenge the title.

5 hours ago, Artymouse said:

When the previews said that two players would be voted out last night, I expected one tribal council with them voting for two people. Then, with all the talk of blindsides, I thought maybe Jeff was going to blindside the players and tell them they had to vote out two people at the one tribal council, even though they were only expecting one vote. So my question is -- has that ever happened?  

It's happened a few times. In Cook Islands, the losing tribe got a secret message that was to be opened at Tribal Council. After they voted out one person, they opened the message and it said they had to vote out a second person. Also once in each of the two Redemption Island seasons (22 and 23), they voted someone out and then had a surprise immunity challenge at Tribal Council and a second vote. There have also been a few times where tribes show up for the immunity challenge, and Jeff tells them that both tribes are going to TC, so the IC ends up being for individual instead of tribal immunity or sometimes just for reward.

[PaperTree]

11 hours ago, sigmaforce86 said:

My favorite challenge is the billiard balls in the metal roller coaster like contraption where they have to catch it at the bottom and put it back in, one handed, while adding more balls at certain points.  No real reason I just find that one interesting.  Also it plays into Jeff's love of saying "balls" multiple times in a challenge and all the double meanings he and we get from that.

Physics rules 🙂

[Wandering Snark]

Yes, I admit I never tire of Probst saying "Hey Devins, throw me one of your balls!" Etc.

[nlkm9]

On 4/17/2019 at 7:49 AM, Whimsy said:

Original airdate 4/17/19

I am hate watching now--why?? because the drama of being voted off is gone--as David left he said "I will claw to get back in"-so he knew he wasnt really out. grrrr. i keep hoping e of e will end. I just hate this. and I still dont get if this the real jury. Ugh--worst season EVER. at least the one with the arena you had a duel. this is really bad.

Edited April 18, 2019 by nlkm9
add

[Wandering Snark]

Forgot to mention that I'm surprised that David fell to the same blunder on the 'give an advantage' discovery. Devins gave his only ally in the game the half-idol. Now David gives Devins the IC advantage. They both ended up basically burning an olive branch/chance to reach out. Why not use it to try and garner some favor/sway with a person should you come back? It seems like not seeing the full power of such an advantage.

It may have saved Devins since he was able to win the shortened challenge since Probst took one of his balls (sorry heh) but I still say it's a shortsided way of using that advantage.

[LanceM]

4 hours ago, jhummerbird said:

It's interesting to me how much Devens' and Julie's emotions have had an impact on this game -- Devens' with his declaration that he will never ever side with the Lesu 3, and Julie's hatred of Aurora. I also wondered why Victoria and Aurora didn't go running to Kelly with their info. But even if Victoria/Aurora/Lauren/Kelly had voted together, they needed to pull in a fifth, and obviously Devens and Julia weren't going to be an option. It seems like they could have pulled in Gavin...actually the more I think about it, the more V/A/L/K/Gavin sounds like a group of five that would be in everyone's best interests -- especially seeing after the vote that Gavin was excluded from the Kelly plan. But before the vote it was unclear to me just how deeply Gavin was embedded in the group of six, and I guess maybe it was unclear to Victoria and Aurora as well. 

Why would they do ithat  Victoria has been trying to vote Kelley out since the merge. Unfortunately for her Kama alliance mates had other dumb ideas. Voting out Kelley is the correct move for her and anyone else in the minority. NOt only are you breaking up the Lesu 3 but since the Warthog spearheaded it the chances of Lauren wanting to continue working with the Warthog drops dramatically and you could possibly pick her up as an ally. And now Gavin is pissed at the Warthog as well.

Edited April 19, 2019 by LanceM

[Quilty]

Why do these people wear ties and vests and jackets. The know what they're getting into. Stop wearing costumes. It's tuned into a bunch of thirsty blabber mouths. 

[violet and green]

2 hours ago, Wandering Snark said:

Yes, I admit I never tire of Probst saying "Hey Devins, throw me one of your balls!" Etc.

Jif looked so happy when he caught Devins' tossed ball, too.

I was so glad Devins won immunity. That and the butterfly and David's radiant smile even as voted off/to Extinction etc were the highlight of this episode.

Everyone left on mainland Survivor, aside from Rick Devins is boring, in my view. B. O. R. I. N. G. Boring!

I liked Aurora in the first episode, and I appreciate that she digs in so deep for the challenges, but eh.

There's not been much spark in any of those coasted along for weeks c/- Curly Joe Kama originals, once they hit the hard times. It's the dull confessionals they all give. So unrootable for... Plus they entirely screwed their majority for no real reason (thank god - imagine how boring it would've been these last few eps if they hadn't!), and were so pleased with themselves as they did it.

The Warthog has to go, but probably won't.

It shouldn't be long before the Extinctos get their shot at returning. Day 35, I believe. If not next week, then the ep after.

Kelley's spat out truth re Lauren's idol is right in her lane or wheelhouse or whatever, I thought. Looking forward to her jury face!

[green]

23 minutes ago, Quilty said:

Why do these people wear ties and vests and jackets. The know what they're getting into. Stop wearing costumes. It's tuned into a bunch of thirsty blabber mouths. 

Well we almost made it through this year without the clothing question coming up. 

Reason:  Because they have NO choice on what clothing they take on Survivor.  It is dictated by production who wants to set up certain players with certain "looks."

[ByaNose]

21 minutes ago, violet and green said:

It shouldn't be long before the Extinctos get their shot at returning. Day 35, I believe. If not next week, then the ep after.

So, the returnee would only have 4 Days to work/play with. I wonder if they are given an advantage? I’m horrible with numbers. How many people do we (you) think would be left in the game? In theory, the returnee could win they’re way into the Final 4, right? Either win Final Immunity or be forced into the fire 🔥 making challenge. The edit on EI has been good because I have no idea💡who is returning. Fun times ahead. Overall, it’s been a meh season because of the twist but the ending might sway me.

[violet and green]

4 minutes ago, ByaNose said:

So, the returnee would only have 4 Days to work/play with. I wonder if they are given an advantage? I’m horrible with numbers. How many people do we (you) think would be left in the game?

I'm horrible with numbers, too! It's just stuck in my head Jif saying that they will get a second chance to come back on day 35... At some point during last ep, which covered a fair swag of time, I noted it was day 29, so figured 35 is a-coming soon!

[Kelda Feegle]

4 hours ago, Wandering Snark said:

Yes, I admit I never tire of Probst saying "Hey Devins, throw me one of your balls!" Etc.

I was waiting for Probst to say Now I have Devins ball in my pocket, or, Right one of Devin's balls is out of play/in my hand/in my shorts etc

[princelina]

4 hours ago, Wandering Snark said:

Forgot to mention that I'm surprised that David fell to the same blunder on the 'give an advantage' discovery. Devins gave his only ally in the game the half-idol. Now David gives Devins the IC advantage. They both ended up basically burning an olive branch/chance to reach out. Why not use it to try and garner some favor/sway with a person should you come back? It seems like not seeing the full power of such an advantage.

It may have saved Devins since he was able to win the shortened challenge since Probst took one of his balls (sorry heh) but I still say it's a shortsided way of using that advantage.

Considering that he might come back and want to still work with "Devins" (Rick?) I don't think it was a bad move.  Had he given it to anyone else it would have been the usual "I hope you like me for doing this" but if he comes back and Rick (?) is still in the game it gives David a definite advantage.  Of course that is the chance he is taking - rules are different this season 🙂 

[Wandering Snark]

3 hours ago, violet and green said:

Jif looked so happy when he caught Devins' tossed ball, too.

Well, we don'y know how many tosses it took for him to effortlessly catch the ball (and who off camera it was thrown by) but he's damn lucky that that advantage didn't go to "wardog" because we all know he can't throw worth a damn!

48 minutes ago, princelina said:

Had he given it to anyone else it would have been the usual "I hope you like me for doing this" but if he comes back and Rick (?) is still in the game it gives David a definite advantage.

I think you don't often get gifted 'currency' in the game; and when you do you want to exchange your possible results. Change in that baby to get the highest potential amount. Potentially helping out the one person that has your back in the game already is getting a low return for your own personal gain. Sure he helped Devins' game quite a bit but what did that give to David in terms of his game? He was already working with him!

Edited April 19, 2019 by Wandering Snark
Message Merge...

[Brookside]

13 hours ago, bunnyface said:

You know what else we're missing this season?  Blindfolded people running into things.  I wouldn't mind seeing Warthog running his 'nads into some fenceposts.  Just me?

He probably wouldn't even get close a fencepost since he'd undoubtedly run in completely the wrong direction and into the jungle - where he'd run his 'nads into a palm tree.

[knitorpurl]

8 hours ago, Wandering Snark said:

Forgot to mention that I'm surprised that David fell to the same blunder on the 'give an advantage' discovery. Devins gave his only ally in the game the half-idol. Now David gives Devins the IC advantage. They both ended up basically burning an olive branch/chance to reach out. Why not use it to try and garner some favor/sway with a person should you come back? It seems like not seeing the full power of such an advantage.

It may have saved Devins since he was able to win the shortened challenge since Probst took one of his balls (sorry heh) but I still say it's a shortsided way of using that advantage.

I thought the same thing. It would have benefited both he and Rick as they are already allies to bring someone to their side. 

[violet and green]

4 hours ago, Wandering Snark said:

Sure he helped Devins' game quite a bit but what did that give to David in terms of his game? He was already working with him!

Well, it worked - in that Devins won immunity. If he'd been voted off, then David's main ally would be on Extinction with him and only one person, I believe, can get back in the game.

[amazingracefan]

4 hours ago, Wandering Snark said:

Well, we don'y know how many tosses it took for him to effortlessly catch the ball (and who off camera it was thrown by)

I was thinking that too, it looked such a perfect edit.

Edited April 19, 2019 by amazingracefan

[blackwing]

14 hours ago, Wandering Snark said:

Forgot to mention that I'm surprised that David fell to the same blunder on the 'give an advantage' discovery. Devins gave his only ally in the game the half-idol. Now David gives Devins the IC advantage. They both ended up basically burning an olive branch/chance to reach out. Why not use it to try and garner some favor/sway with a person should you come back? It seems like not seeing the full power of such an advantage.

It may have saved Devins since he was able to win the shortened challenge since Probst took one of his balls (sorry heh) but I still say it's a shortsided way of using that advantage.

David is hoping he is going to return to the game, and he wanted to make sure that Rick had an extra opportunity to stay in the game.  

For past "gifted advantages", where someone gives one to someone on the other tribe, I thought the recipient really had no idea who it came from.  I do remember the one Legacy Advantage that Sierra had and Sarah the cop bamboozled her into giving it to her if she was voted out, so that's different.  Earlier this season, when Aubrey gave an advantage to Aurora, did Aurora know who it was from?

I guess I'm curious about exactly how Rick knew the advantage was from David.  Was there a note in there saying it was from him?  Or did he just assume that David was the only one who would give him an advantage?

[SVNBob]

1 hour ago, blackwing said:

Earlier this season, when Aubrey gave an advantage to Aurora, did Aurora know who it was from?

I guess I'm curious about exactly how Rick knew the advantage was from David.  Was there a note in there saying it was from him?  Or did he just assume that David was the only one who would give him an advantage?

No, she didn't.  She assumed it was either Joe or Aubry, because they were her allies back on original Kama.

As for Rick, it's most likely assumption on his part too.

[ljenkins782]

13 hours ago, violet and green said:

Jif looked so happy when he caught Devins' tossed ball, too.

I thought there was a bit of a smash cut in there, Devins threw the ball in one frame and Jeff caught a ball in another frame. Cameras can swing and follow the ball from one person to another so I'm choosing to believe Jeff couldn't make the catch on the first try so they had to film a separate shot. This season is so boring to me that these are the ways I make my own entertainment. 😉

Quote

Quote

Forgot to mention that I'm surprised that David fell to the same blunder on the 'give an advantage' discovery. Devins gave his only ally in the game the half-idol. Now David gives Devins the IC advantage. They both ended up basically burning an olive branch/chance to reach out. Why not use it to try and garner some favor/sway with a person should you come back? It seems like not seeing the full power of such an advantage.

It may have saved Devins since he was able to win the shortened challenge since Probst took one of his balls (sorry heh) but I still say it's a short-sighted way of using that advantage.

Considering that he might come back and want to still work with "Devins" (Rick?) I don't think it was a bad move.  Had he given it to anyone else it would have been the usual "I hope you like me for doing this" but if he comes back and Rick (?) is still in the game it gives David a definite advantage.  Of course that is the chance he is taking - rules are different this season 🙂 

I also don't think it was a bad move. Devins is back to being his closest ally and it's more useful to him to help him stay in then to hang with him on EoE with the hopes that whatever stranger he tried to curry favor with had accepted it with an open mind. He's not there on the island with them to continue to work on them, so a gift sent from afar with no opportunity for follow-up isn't necessarily going to be any benefit. Especially since we don't know that the person in the game actually knows who sent it. There are a shit ton of people over on EoE at this point and the advantages don't go straight to the most recent boot, they all have the chance to find it, so it could be from anybody.

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I guess I'm curious about exactly how Rick knew the advantage was from David.  Was there a note in there saying it was from him?  Or did he just assume that David was the only one who would give him an advantage?

I think he just assumed. Dave had just been voted out and really, who else on EoE was going to give him anything? I don't recall Aubry knowing that her gift was from Devins or that Aurora knew hers was from Aubry, so I don't think the gifts come with a name. 

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Kelley frustrated me, because of how she hitched her wagon to Wardog. At least David knew he was fighting for his life. Kelley saw or observed how the Kamas turned on first Aubry, then Joe, then David and yet she thought ... what? That she was different than all the other returnees? That Wardog was protecting her?

I'm most frustrated with the fact that she and David couldn't work together. Unless she wanted to play Parvati to Wardog's Russell (in a season without a Sandra), they should've gotten rid of Wardog on Lesu. She and David could've formed an uneasy truce, each with their ride-or-die buddy. But they could never work together, and a lot of it seemed to be blocked by Wardog.

I don't love Kelley, but I wish she'd have read Wardog for what he is: a sleazy, slimy poker player using her as a shield. He absolutely sunk her game, and she has no one to blame but herself.

It also doesn't say much for Kelley's game that no one made any attempt to clue her in. It's odd that someone can plan such a big move (ousting a returning player and turning on an alliance that they've been in lockstep with since the beginning) without the target getting any wind of it at all. And I have to assume she had no idea since she was sitting on an idol. Usually someone sees someone else's plan for a big move as an opportunity to make their own move and things get screwy. 

But I guess with David gone, it was a fairly easy sell to just get rid of the lone remaining returning player and since Kelley's been playing from the bottom the whole time, not too many people were looking to help her out. 

I do think David and Kelley should have worked together, especially once Joe and Aubry were gone. Similar to the "I need to be sitting next to another winner to have a shot" mentality that former winners have in all-star seasons, they should have considered that sitting next to each other takes away the easy excuse of "I don't want to see a former player win" at the final vote.

I'm not exactly sure what she was thinking re: Wardog. How many times did he want to vote Lauren out? It always ended up not happening for one reason or another, but he was gunning for her on multiple occasions, so Kelley can't pretend she thought their threesome was a solid block to the end.

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Aurora giving her advantage away was just stupidity, makes you wonder if she's even watched the show.

That was such a dumb way to try to connect. I felt like he should have voted her out with that extra vote just to prove a point. There didn't even seem to be much of a contingency placed on it, it was more like "hey, here you go, be my friend? Bye!" 

Who was it in a recent season who had half an idol and gave the piece to someone else as a show of trust and they burned it in the fire or something and the person who gave it up went home? I remember it was someone I really liked and was disappointed with that move. (Just looked it up because it was going to bug me, it was Lauren in the season that Ben won and it was Dr. Mike who burned it in the fire.) 

That's another reason I don't feel like David's move to give the advantage to Devins was a waste. If you give an advantage or a show of trust to someone that you're not aligned with, it can just as easily boomerang back in your face. I suspect Aurora's going to have a boomerang mark on her forehead sometime soon.

[green]

11 hours ago, Wandering Snark said:

I think you don't often get gifted 'currency' in the game; and when you do you want to exchange your possible results. Change in that baby to get the highest potential amount. Potentially helping out the one person that has your back in the game already is getting a low return for your own personal gain. Sure he helped Devins' game quite a bit but what did that give to David in terms of his game? He was already working with him!

I agree with some of the posters right above me.  David's best move was the one he made.  Trying to keep Rick safe since Rick is now a major target to be voted out as well. 

Also it was a stand up thing to do after Rick allowed David to play their joint immunity idol earlier which looks good on the resume under "loyalty" if David could make it back in.

[Gummo]

[Never mind - my point was made already!]

Edited April 19, 2019 by Gummo

[himela]

The good thing is, Kelly and her stupid smile is gone.

The bad thing is, the only person who deserves the win from the people remaining is Wardog. I would say also Rick but he was voted out once and he would have been voted out again if it wasn't for the advantage David gave him.

Victoria has played a good game but she has not made it aware to the rest of the players so if she gets to the final tribal council she will have the same result as Aubry had in her first season.

I was thinking about it and I think that the only two people who were in every episode were Wardog and Rick. From the way the edit is going, nobody from Ron, Julie, Gavin, Victoria or Lauren can win. I predict the winner will be between Rick and Wardog. Both are bad results for me cause Wardog is not likeable and Rick has been voted out so I don't count him as a winner.

Plus the game has become too complicated for my liking. We don't even know the rules, how the jury will work, what will happen if say 5 people quit from the jury etc. 

Bad season. Looking forward for Survivor SA in May.

[ProfCrash]

Finally watching this episode, I was on vacation. 

Dan continues to play a crap challenge game but a decent strategic game. I say decent only because he is a bull in the China shop and people don’t seem to appreciate the bull. His challenge awfulness might be helping him because no one actually thinks he can win a challenge. And he doesn’t have Tony’s charisma. Tony had some hard core loyal allies wh he wouldnt betray and who wouldn’t betray him. Dan does not have that.

Aurora is playing a good challenge game and is a free vote for any other group because no one wants to ally with her.

Rick is fighting hard and playing ok. He had the one awful tribal after het got back in but that is about it.

Julia is a mess, Lauren is a non-entity, Victoria seems to be on the right side of every vote but god knows how that is happening, Gavin is mainly invisible.

Ron is swarmy and I don’t think he has a chance at winning. 

[Nashville]

On 4/18/2019 at 6:49 PM, Wandering Snark said:

Forgot to mention that I'm surprised that David fell to the same blunder on the 'give an advantage' discovery. Devins gave his only ally in the game the half-idol. Now David gives Devins the IC advantage. They both ended up basically burning an olive branch/chance to reach out. Why not use it to try and garner some favor/sway with a person should you come back? It seems like not seeing the full power of such an advantage.

It may have saved Devins since he was able to win the shortened challenge since Probst took one of his balls (sorry heh) but I still say it's a shortsided way of using that advantage.

On 4/19/2019 at 12:05 AM, Wandering Snark said:

I think you don't often get gifted 'currency' in the game; and when you do you want to exchange your possible results. Change in that baby to get the highest potential amount. Potentially helping out the one person that has your back in the game already is getting a low return for your own personal gain. Sure he helped Devins' game quite a bit but what did that give to David in terms of his game? He was already working with him!

It’s an age-old question: use an advantage for a low-yield but guaranteed return - or go for a higher-yield return, but with commensurately greater risk of getting nothing at all?  The answer is a judgment call; there is no “right” or “wrong” answer - just a revelation of your tolerance for risk.  David’s tolerance is apparently pretty low; he went with the option which maximized potential for retention of his best ally in the game - and that was the right choice for David.  YMMV

Edited April 21, 2019 by Nashville
Formatting

[nutty1]

Finally got to watch this episode. So bummed about David. I really don’t care about who wins, unless David or Aubrey return from Exile!

[Wandering Snark]

On 4/20/2019 at 11:23 PM, Nashville said:

It’s an age-old question: use an advantage for a low-yield but guaranteed return - or go for a higher-yield return, but with commensurately greater risk of getting nothing at all?  The answer is a judgment call; there is no “right” or “wrong” answer - just a revelation of your tolerance for risk.  David’s tolerance is apparently pretty low; he went with the option which maximized potential for retention of his best ally in the game - and that was the right choice for David.  YMMV

Agreed. My point is based around that you get so few chances to really impact the game/sieze the moment and at those times you have to jump.

I do agree that it would seem that David is a non-jumper. I disagree with his approach obviously.

[HappyDancex2]

It’s weird how decent last season was even going on season 104 or whatever and how bad this season is by comparison.  The Edge of Stink really has thrown off the whole dynamics of the game in nobody being eliminated and then forming a weird second half makeshift jury.  

Do all of these people stay on the jury even after the next purge to go back in the game?  It’s hard to believe reem gets a vote for hanging around.  Part of survivor is forming alliances and voting people off in a way where they still would vote for you.  The top rows at the reunion are there for a reason...sorry to never get to know you but it’s just part of the game.

i hope reem accidentally wins the next opportunity to get back in the game.  I would laugh and laugh and laugh.

[ProfCrash]

I think that EoE is problematic for many reasons. Not only are people in the game and on the jury who have not spent any time with some of the folks still in the game, but they are able to influence to game by handing out advantages. Those advantages can directly help players in the game because someone who is out of the game decides they want to help a particular player.

Aurora did nothing to get her vote advantage, she was given it by someone on EoE. Probably someone who just wanted to screw with the majority alliance at the time. No one on EoE was really aligned with Aurora or probably wants to see her win, they just wanted to screw with the majority alliance.

Rick gets an advantage that helps him win immunity from his ally who is no longer in the game.

This is not the same as last season when the Nerds go together, shared their advantages, and came up with a plan to use them to help themselves. This is people who should no longer be in the game influencing the game, not with a vote, but with an advantage.

There is a possibility that the advantage won't be used, like Aubrey's, but that is on the player in the game. But these advantages should not even be in play.

If they are going to have advantages, the players should have to find the damn things and not have them dropped in their bags.

EoE gets more and more annoying.

[peachmangosteen]

10 minutes ago, ProfCrash said:

Aurora did nothing to get her vote advantage, she was given it by someone on EoE. Probably someone who just wanted to screw with the majority alliance at the time.

Didn't Aubry give that advantage to Aurora? Aubry and Aurora were aligned in the game, so Aurora did do something to earn it. She aligned with Aubry in the game and in turn when Aubry had the chance to help her she did.

I still hate EoE though and I'm not particularly fond of there being advantages for the players there to give to the players in the game. Although, it does allow the EoE players to kinda still be in the game, which I think helps actually. Otherwise, the EoE players are just sitting on another island doing basically nothing and yet they then get to vote for the winner. I don't know, all of it is just awful and a mistake really.

Edited April 22, 2019 by peachmangosteen

[ProfCrash]

8 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

Didn't Aubry give that advantage to Aurora? Aubry and Aurora were aligned in the game, so Aurora did do something to earn it. She aligned with Aubry in the game and in turn when Aubry had the chance to help her she did.

I still hate EoE though and I'm not particularly fond of there being advantages for the players there to give to the players in the game. Although, it does allow the EoE players to kinda still be in the game, which I think helps actually. Otherwise, the EoE players are just sitting on another island doing basically nothing and yet they then get to vote for the winner. I don't know, all of it is just awful and a mistake really.

I am not sure how tight that alliance was, we rarely saw it. We know that Joe was allied with Aurora and it seemed like Joe and Aubry were allied because they knew they were on the bottom of the Kama tribe. I don't remember seeing much of Aubry and Aurora working together, but we saw so little of Kama that I have no clue about their relationship. I strongly suspect that Aubrey simply knew that Aurora would use it to screw over Kama and that made Aubry happy. 

[Cutty]

Just checking in to say I haven't been the biggest fan of this season but the last 3 episodes or so have been good. And kudos to the newbies for getting all the returners out. The way it should be. 

Wardog is definitely playing a good game but he's putting a huge target on his back. Making sure everyone knows you were the ringleader of said blindside *while* at Tribal is never a good look. He might as well have stood up and taken a bow. 

Still dislike EoE, though. One of the sillier ideas in the show's history.

Edited April 22, 2019 by Cutty

[ljenkins782]

11 hours ago, Wandering Snark said:

Quote

It’s an age-old question: use an advantage for a low-yield but guaranteed return - or go for a higher-yield return, but with commensurately greater risk of getting nothing at all?  The answer is a judgment call; there is no “right” or “wrong” answer - just a revelation of your tolerance for risk.  David’s tolerance is apparently pretty low; he went with the option which maximized potential for retention of his best ally in the game - and that was the right choice for David.  YMMV

Agreed. My point is based around that you get so few chances to really impact the game/sieze the moment and at those times you have to jump.

I do agree that it would seem that David is a non-jumper. I disagree with his approach obviously.

I'm curious what your idea for a better approach would have been? The advantages don't come with names on them and he can't speak to anyone left in the game unless/until he wins his way back in. I can understand the concept of using an advantage or shared secret with someone back at camp while you're still in the game (though it's risky) because you have all day to follow up and bolster that connection. But sending a random advantage to someone you hadn't been working with, who wouldn't know for sure who it came from, and then being separated from them for the remainder of your time on EOE? It doesn't make sense. He could end up handing the game to someone who was looking to cut his throat and he never knew it. 

And in this particular case, he did maximize the impact on the game because Devins was the popular choice for the vote off that night. Handing an advantage to the one person that absolutely no one wanted to see win immunity is the very best way to agitate the dynamics of the whole tribe and it ended up getting Kelley blindsided because it left the other most likely boot (Aurora) vulnerable without the immunity necklace. 

The fact it kept David's best ally in the game is kind of icing on the cake. 

[ProfCrash]

29 minutes ago, ljenkins782 said:

I'm curious what your idea for a better approach would have been? The advantages don't come with names on them and he can't speak to anyone left in the game unless/until he wins his way back in. I can understand the concept of using an advantage or shared secret with someone back at camp while you're still in the game (though it's risky) because you have all day to follow up and bolster that connection. But sending a random advantage to someone you hadn't been working with, who wouldn't know for sure who it came from, and then being separated from them for the remainder of your time on EOE? It doesn't make sense. He could end up handing the game to someone who was looking to cut his throat and he never knew it. 

And in this particular case, he did maximize the impact on the game because Devins was the popular choice for the vote off that night. Handing an advantage to the one person that absolutely no one wanted to see win immunity is the very best way to agitate the dynamics of the whole tribe and it ended up getting Kelley blindsided because it left the other most likely boot (Aurora) vulnerable without the immunity necklace. 

The fact it kept David's best ally in the game is kind of icing on the cake. 

I don't rewatch the episodes but I am 99% certain that Rick said that he got an advantage from his friend David, so Rick knew who gave him that advantage. I thought Rick actually mentioned it at the challenge and at Tribal.

It confused me because no one else has mentioned who gave them the advantage. Maybe Rick just figured it was David because the two were so close in the game. Or maybe Rick had told David that he had given Aubry an advantage and she didn't use it and David had said if he had an advantage he would give it to Rick. Or Rick figured that no one but David would give him an advantage.

But I have the strong impression that Rick knew David gave him the advantage.

[ByaNose]

I wonder if Wardog is getting a Final 3 edit?! He has gotten a lot of air time and has been a narrator of sorts. I know for the home viewers he's been kind of obnoxious but I wonder if it was the same for the people on the island?!. He's been horrible in challenges and I don't think he's even gotten a vote (has he?). Normally, I would say he's a goat but he is always vocal and able to bounce from one side to the other. I don't know if he could win but I could see Final 3.

[Nashville]

12 hours ago, Wandering Snark said:

Agreed. My point is based around that you get so few chances to really impact the game/sieze the moment and at those times you have to jump.

I do agree that it would seem that David is a non-jumper. I disagree with his approach obviously.

In that case, we agree to disagree. 😉   David has two options:

Option A - Use the advantage on Rick.

Option A positives:

1. It preserves David’s strongest alliance in the game.
2. Insofar as the David/Rick alliance was both publicly open and relatively isolated, Rick has immediate knowledge of the source of the advantage; David receives automatic credit.
3. It increases the likelihood of Rick staying in the game despite any existing target on Rick’s back - which translates to David having additional alliance support in the game, should David win his way back in.
4. Rick being seen as the possible recipient of future advantages might give him an edge in building additional game relationships which might benefit Rick - and, by extension, David - in the long run.
5. If Rick did not feel threatened enough to use the advantage upon himself, then Rick could have used it as a bargaining chip to gain inroads towards building a relationship with another (and yeah WE know that didn’t happen, but the possibility of the option did exist).

Option A negatives:

1. It does not extend David’s support base beyond what already exists.
2. Rick’s receipt of an advantage runs the risk of alienating Rick’s ability to engender support among the remaining mainstream players (if the advantage is spun as “unfair”), and may paint a bigger target on his back.

My conclusion: Option A’s positives outweigh its negatives.

Option B - use the advantage on someone other than Rick.

Option B positives:

1. It could extend David’s support base beyond what already exists.
2. Little risk is run of increasing any target on Rick’s back.

Option B negatives:

1. It does not support David’s primary existing alliance.
2. It does nothing to attenuate any existing target on Rick, David’s primary alliance support still remaining in the game..
3. Unlike Rick, the recipient would not automatically assume David as the source of the advantage - meaning a high probability David would receive no credit for bestowing it.
4. Even if the recipient were to recognize David as the source of the advantage, there is no guarantee of reciprocity; the recipient could enjoy the benefits of the advantage while continuing to work against David’s and/or Rick’s interests.

My conclusion: Option B’s negatives outweigh its positives.

At primary issue is the current game context.  The season is about 70% complete; a little late in the game to try initiating brand-new alliances - especially remotely, when David is no longer in the mainstream game.  Rick (David’s strongest alliance and sole remaining game support) is in serious jeopardy; with David’s departure Rick is seen as isolated and an easy vote out, and Rick’s “returnee” status almost certainly increases the TOHB.  Given this context, what best helps David’s game?

@Wandering Snark - just out of curiosity: other than Rick, exactly who specifically did you see as an alternate recipient who would benefit David’s game more?

3 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

I am not sure how tight that alliance was, we rarely saw it. We know that Joe was allied with Aurora and it seemed like Joe and Aubry were allied because they knew they were on the bottom of the Kama tribe. I don't remember seeing much of Aubry and Aurora working together, but we saw so little of Kama that I have no clue about their relationship.

Back in the days when the Kama 6 alliance took the reins, I seem to recall Aurora being considered a “Kama traitor” because of her close relationships with veterans Joe and Aubry.  Aurora’s relationship with Joe appeared to be her primary, with Joe serving as the linchpin between the three; with Aubry’s eviction, though, the remaining two (Joe and Aurora) were both isolated, and necessarily bound more tightly to each other.

Frankly - if Rick were able to get out of 100% defensive mode long enough to make any game plays, I expect Aurora would be his most promising option.

Edited April 22, 2019 by Nashville
Added linky

[ljenkins782]

1 hour ago, ProfCrash said:

I don't rewatch the episodes but I am 99% certain that Rick said that he got an advantage from his friend David, so Rick knew who gave him that advantage. I thought Rick actually mentioned it at the challenge and at Tribal.

It confused me because no one else has mentioned who gave them the advantage. Maybe Rick just figured it was David because the two were so close in the game. Or maybe Rick had told David that he had given Aubry an advantage and she didn't use it and David had said if he had an advantage he would give it to Rick. Or Rick figured that no one but David would give him an advantage.

But I have the strong impression that Rick knew David gave him the advantage.

There is no one else on EoE with any ties to Rick, the day that his closest ally in the game goes to EoE, Rick suddenly gets an advantage. It's not that hard for Rick to draw the conclusion that David gave it to him. 

Had David given it to someone else that he wasn't previously allied with, they would have had a much harder time deducing that it was from him since there are so many others on EoE and some of those people did have relationships with people still in the game. 

[ByaNose]

1 hour ago, ljenkins782 said:

There is no one else on EoE with any ties to Rick, the day that his closest ally in the game goes to EoE, Rick suddenly gets an advantage. It's not that hard for Rick to draw the conclusion that David gave it to him. 

Had David given it to someone else that he wasn't previously allied with, they would have had a much harder time deducing that it was from him since there are so many others on EoE and some of those people did have relationships with people still in the game. 

I thought David was going to give it to someone different because he said he would give it to someone who would help his game. I guess I was expecting someone differet because Rick seemed so obvious . Auroa wasn't exactly sure who gave her the advantage.

[himela]

I hate the idea of people who were voted out coming back to the game but my biggest problem was the advantages that were sent to players still in the game. It goes against the idea of the game that if you play it well you stay in the game, if you don't you are out. Helping people who were in the minority alliance is bizarre and surely unfair. Rick, Aubry, Aurora should not have any help. The only game that is going on should be between the people who are still in the game.

[Wandering Snark]

On 4/22/2019 at 12:24 PM, Nashville said:

@Wandering Snark - just out of curiosity: other than Rick, exactly who specifically did you see as an alternate recipient who would benefit David’s game more?

Sorry for late reply, was away for the holiday...

My choice would have been Lauren actually, as it has the potential for becoming a 2 for 1 proposition/burying the hatchet with Kelly. Especially as she SHOULD (but didn't... however that can't really be considered at the time!) feel the heat of them wanting the returners out and been looking for some votes to keep her around. I think it would have been wasted on Kelly herself, but Lauren is certainly feeling the heat as well. 

As I said we can't consider that Kelly was voted out next here but if Lauren had won instead of Devins that whole next tribal would have had a different feel to it and possibly a different result.

I see most people disagree and that's cool too 😉 Just how I see it.

[Nashville]

29 minutes ago, Wandering Snark said:

My choice would have been Lauren actually

Ok; I was just curious because I personally couldn’t think of anybody  - other than Rick, of course - who might even be inclined to credit David in the event they had received the advantage.  🙂

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 4/18/2019 at 11:38 AM, Special K said:

Can we just marvel at how good a job David did fighting for his life, what a good case he made and without being nasty or taking things too personally.  And what a good sport he was after getting voted out?

I love him.

David is always an incredibly gracious player.  I really admire the way he reacts in heated confrontations, which is basically smiling nervously.  It's so much better than the other types of reaction we see!