S09.E15: The Calm Before

[Persnickety1]

15 hours ago, Mu Shu said:

Why stifle it?  We’re having kids acting as adults shoved down our throats.  I wish Tyrese had been a shittier babysitter.  Pre tween Judith is an annoying little brat.  

I laughed WAY too hard and WAY too long at that.   Great way to start my morning, so thanks!  

[mightysparrow]

13 hours ago, SamBeckett said:

I’m a sucker for those “siege of the Alamo” kind of scenes like the last battle last night. I know time limitations probably prevented them from showing close-ups of each person’s death and their head on the spike. That would have clued us in as to who was who.

Then again, the biggest problem regarding who is who is that we had too many “who the hell is that” who’s. I mean when dedicated viewers have trouble telling the difference between Tara and Enid who, out of the “piked group,” are the “biggest” characters, then that tells you we’re hitting the bottom of the barrel of big characters. The next big character to go will be someone who said a few words in passing to Eugene in the back ground of one scene from an episode last season.

Oh, well.

They had enough time to devote to all those scenes at the fair.  I think the impact of the deaths of those (mostly) minor characters would have been stronger if they had shown their last stand in greater detail.  Show those kids, who we've only seen as being brats, fight for their lives and show that there was more to them than what we've seen.  Make us regret what they COULD have been and what they could have contributed.  Let Ozzy and DJ the chance to come in like heroes and to ALMOST turn the tide.  Henry didn't even get a chance to go out swinging; he just stood there, a waste of air up to his very last breath.

They added 30 minutes to this episode.  Most of it was commercials.  But all that time spent dunking Eugene at the fair didn't justify the extra time.  The showrunner compared this to the 'Red Wedding' episode of Game of Thrones.  I don't watch GOT but I remember the effect that the Red Wedding had.  People lost their mind  How many are losing their mind over this?

[TattleTeeny]

Why is she being referred to as "Elpha"?

[Lamima]

28 minutes ago, mightysparrow said:

They had enough time to devote to all those scenes at the fair.  I think the impact of the deaths of those (mostly) minor characters would have been stronger if they had shown their last stand in greater detail.  Show those kids, who we've only seen as being brats, fight for their lives and show that there was more to them than what we've seen.  Make us regret what they COULD have been and what they could have contributed.  Let Ozzy and DJ the chance to come in like heroes and to ALMOST turn the tide.  Henry didn't even get a chance to go out swinging; he just stood there, a waste of air up to his very last breath.

They added 30 minutes to this episode.  Most of it was commercials.  But all that time spent dunking Eugene at the fair didn't justify the extra time.  The showrunner compared this to the 'Red Wedding' episode of Game of Thrones.  I don't watch GOT but I remember the effect that the Red Wedding had.  People lost their mind  How many are losing their mind over this?

As a HUGE GOT fan....this was NO COMPARISON to the Red Wedding. These showrunners need to get their heads out of their asses. They are like a cool high school click who sit around discussing what they think would be cool to do. And aim to impress one another. And they have clear fave actors that they refuse to part with as they don't want that member of the click to go.  They have that FB page that shows all these clips and pics of their actors and staff like it's a fun frat party to them. I am sure it is...a fun family to work with. But get back to writing decent script and stop just trying to do 'cool stuff'. No way was the head pikes like the Red Wedding. That is laughable. That scene left me shaken for days...just rewatched the whole show and that scene got me again (as did many others, like battle of the bastards and Joffrey's wedding death). I was like 'meh' watching this episode of TWD. Did scream 'YEZZZZZZ' when I saw Henry's head and I am willing to bet THAT was NOT the reaction show was going for. 

Edited March 26, 2019 by Lamima

[Lamima]

I think she says it more like Ale-a-fa. Any which way she says it, it's annoying.

Edited March 26, 2019 by Lamima

[Lamima]

ALso Carol has the abusive husband past so she should get Lydia like Daryl does (and get the true Alpha) and do the deed of killing Alpha.  I really don't care who does it as long as it gets done. 

[TattleTeeny]

28 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

I think it is due to the way that character says "Alpha".

Oh, haha--I was wondering if there was some kind of pun in there somewhere!

[Giselle]

7 hours ago, dvil said:

I want an all song-and-dance episode that features only Alpha and Negan.

Kill me now. 

God I hate everybody trying to prove they're a triple threat and can act, dance, and sing.

[AngelaHunter]

10 hours ago, Butless said:

At that point, it just becomes writing fan fiction in order to make any kind of sense.

Oh, I've read fanfiction that made more sense than this and was written much better too. 

10 hours ago, Butless said:

Nothing about this guy (character AND actor) isn't annoying as fuck to me.

I love how retro it is on this show that all fat guys are portrayed as clowns and jesters, stuck in for comic relief, I guess.  This Luke actor is also in a truly horrific movie called "Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them", playing, of course, the same character he plays here. How tedious.

[heisenberg]

21 hours ago, Ohwell said:

At this point, I don't care if it's Negan who takes out Alpha.  Give him back Lucille and have him start with her feet and work up to her head.   

Since the time jump I went back to reading the comics (I stopped a year ago) and I now take the show for what it is, comics.  I don't care anymore if they turned medieval, etc..

So I don't care either if Negan get redemption and goes full blast at the wispherers, I don't know if it will be the case, it could be something completely different but I don't care.

[theredhead77]

21 minutes ago, heisenberg said:

Since the time jump I went back to reading the comics (I stopped a year ago) and I now take the show for what it is, comics.

I haven't read the comics (and I don't plan to) but isn't the whole premise of this show, and overall outline based on the comics? Sure, some characters and plot points have been changed, but it seems the massive blame and ragey anger being directed at the people writing and running the show is misplaced. 

[mightysparrow]

4 hours ago, Lamima said:

As a HUGE GOT fan....this was NO COMPARISON to the Red Wedding. These showrunners need to get their heads out of their asses. They are like a cool high school click who sit around discussing what they think would be cool to do. And aim to impress one another. And they have clear fave actors that they refuse to part with as they don't want that member of the click to go.  They have that FB page that shows all these clips and pics of their actors and staff like it's a fun frat party to them. I am sure it is...a fun family to work with. But get back to writing decent script and stop just trying to do 'cool stuff'. No way was the head pikes like the Red Wedding. That is laughable. That scene left me shaken for days...just rewatched the whole show and that scene got me again (as did many others, like battle of the bastards and Joffrey's wedding death). I was like 'meh' watching this episode of TWD. Did scream 'YEZZZZZZ' when I saw Henry's head and I am willing to bet THAT was NOT the reaction show was going for. 

Well said.

Tptb really do have their favourites.  They prop them up no matter what.  The rest of the cast they treat like commodities and then go on TD and shed tears because they just threw those actors away.

I honestly believe that the showrunners thought that all they had to do was make Henry Carol's son and he would be loved by all.  They didn't bother to give him a personality or a reason for existing.  They think Carol is so magical that she can make up for a piece of shit like Henry.  It didn't work.  Leaving Henry's head to the end was supposed to be the BIG SHOCK.  Why wasn't it Tara?  She was much more important than Henry.  She's been on the show for years and she might not have been loved by all but her brutal death meant SOMETHING.  Losing Tara is going to have a huge effect on the communities.  Will they even notice Henry's gone?

[Eulipian 5k]

Is there any correlation between the "A" and "B" that the Garbage Pail used to identify who she had (Rick), versus the Alpha and Beta we have today? They both had a nihilistic view of the world, as did the Wolves, aka Alpha dogs.

[xaxat]

Lots of juicy game theory this episode!

The Good Guys get together and sign a collective action treaty. Just like NATO. "You come at one of us, you come at all of us!" But Alpha don't care! Because she knows she has an army of next generation, asymmetrical warfare, ass kicking Not Zombies! With a large actual zombie force multiplier! And on top of all of that, she's created a zombie nuke! For some deterrence bitches!

Seriously though? Alpha is a magnitude more formidable than any threat they have faced. She is consistently a step ahead of them both tactically and strategically. She's not going to engage in a stand up fight like the ones that defeated the Governor and Negan. I'm really interested in seeing what they do.

(Beta's survival really bothers me. There is no way he takes that fall without getting some kind of injury that ends in a deadly infection.)

[Anela]

11 hours ago, dvil said:

I want an all song-and-dance episode that features only Alpha and Negan.

Will the walkers dance in formation around them, too? 

[AngelaHunter]

40 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

I hadn't realized that one of the two teenage jerks was still living, Gage.

Congrats on knowing the names of the teenaged jerks. They all meld into one for me and I couldn't care less about any of them. We saw them only briefly when they were acting like huge jerks and we're supposed to be shocked or sad at their demise? As the camera moved to each head, I was thinking, "Who the hell is that?" except for Tara. 

This is a show where we can see people decapitated and their dead heads impaled on spikes but no one who happens upon this grisly, gruesome, shocking sight can say, "Oh, FUCK!!" because that would freak people right the fuck out. Those are some fucking twisted sensibilities there.

[SamBeckett]

3 hours ago, mightysparrow said:

Leaving Henry's head to the end was supposed to be the BIG SHOCK.  Why wasn't it Tara?  She was much more important than Henry.  She's been on the show for years and she might not have been loved by all but her brutal death meant SOMETHING.  Losing Tara is going to have a huge effect on the communities.  Will they even notice Henry's gone?

Very good point. Alas, no one listens to us. Common sense and knowing your own show should have told TPTB that Tara was the big reveal, given her history even though she is far from Rick or Daryl status. Still, in a strict hierarchical sense, she be “the boss.” 

And I wonder why they even bothered with some of the people few people even recognized. Is quantity worth more than quality?

I missed your post icemiser69. You make a good point about why so many relative unknowns.

Edited March 26, 2019 by SamBeckett

[AngelaHunter]

3 hours ago, mightysparrow said:

Leaving Henry's head to the end was supposed to be the BIG SHOCK.  Why wasn't it Tara? 

Because as has been noted on a few sites, Henry was served up to us as Carl's replacement, so we should feel the same shock over that twerp punk-ass being decapitated as we would had it been Carl. I guess that's how they think.

[raven]

12 hours ago, Timetoread said:

I don’t blame Lydia for the actions of her psychotic mother.  The people she is with are strong and have promised her protection.  She has twice now stood with them against her own family.  Alpha came in person to get her, TWICE - a break in her own established protocol - and the first time Daryl rebuked her and the second time Lydia did.  And to Lydia’s credit she went directly to Ezekiel to tell him.  This whole thing isn’t Alpha’s MO.  This is her rage at losing control over the one thing she felt she had total ownership of.  I think the last visual of Lydia and Daryl together was our clue about who will slay this monster.

This is where I am.  Lydia DID leave and go back to her mother and Henry went after her, which prompted Daryl and Connie to go after them.  I believe it was Connie who insisted that they bring Lydia back with them.  Henry was hurt and supposedly they were going to go somewhere away from the communities after he got fixed up but then one thing led to another and they didn't.   I was not a fan of Henry and I imagine he thought he was doing the right thing by going after Lydia but I don't fault Daryl and Connie for going after him.  I'd rather the show have people care enough to make the effort than go completely nihilistic and have everyone sit back and say "whatever".   

As silly as it seemed, it was nice to see the communities socializing together.   I do wish the season was told in a more linear fashion.  With the jumping around, we sit and wonder why people don't recognize everyone but then remember there has been no contact, etc.   So if you put everything together Rubik's cube fashion you can piece the story together but we shouldn't have to do that, it could have been told better.

The Highwaymen were kind of goofy but were bought for a movie so they could have been fun.  We haven't seen much of Tara and Enid so it was hard for me to feel much there and I only knew it was them for sure because I had been spoiled.  Still, I would have hoped for something better for the characters as I didn't really dislike either one of them. 

As for Alpha, her power comes from fear over some and the threat of Beta over others.  Remember when the couple challenged her, Beta steps forward.  I doubt anyone in the Whisperer group could challenge him.  Without Beta, Alpha would be easy to take out.  Yes, the Whisperer lifestyle is nonsensical but I always figure I am living a comic book with this show and just laugh and hand wave it.

[Iguessnot]

13 hours ago, dvil said:

Why were the heads barely moving their mouths and not moving their eyes? The Governor's collection of heads was more lively.

If Alpha was wandering around the fair wearing Hilde's scalp, wouldn't people near her notice the smell?

Hilde's scalp would be much fresher than Alpha has been in years. I wonder where in the woods she managed to find facilities to scrub off her own filth before donning Hilde's clothes and scalp.

[Mu Shu]

36 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

Because as has been noted on a few sites, Henry was served up to us as Carl's replacement, so we should feel the same shock over that twerp punk-ass being decapitated as we would had it been Carl. I guess that's how they think.

Nope, Carl started out as an annoying brat, but he grew into his role and earned it.  Henry was time jumped and forced down our throats, so who can care?  I mean, I couldn’t stand Lori or Andrea, but their deaths, especially Lori,  were very wrenching.

im not sure if Danai is phoning it in, but she’s terrible with JDM.  Very affected and forced.  

They should make Aaron leader of hilltop, and recruit that Osso Bucco woman with the bow as his second in command.  And get Diane some flattering pants.  She’s earned it.

[AngelaHunter]

9 minutes ago, Mu Shu said:

Nope, Carl started out as an annoying brat, but he grew into his role and earned it.  Henry was time jumped and forced down our throats, so who can care?

I guess no one informed TPTB that this could be our view of our boy Henry. So has that little sycophant on TTD announced "Everyone loved Henry!" yet?

Edited March 27, 2019 by AngelaHunter

[Ohwell]

1 hour ago, raven said:

Lydia DID leave and go back to her mother and Henry went after her, which prompted Daryl and Connie to go after them. 

But then Lydia didn't have to leave with Henry, right?

[AngelaHunter]

13 hours ago, mightysparrow said:

Henry didn't even get a chance to go out swinging; he just stood there, a waste of air up to his very last breath.

Your unrelenting loathing of Prince Henry is both admirable and awe-inspiring and I applaud it. 🤣

He may be gone, but the miasma of frustration, anger and dead air he left in his wake may never dissipate. 

To paraphrase Dexter: Too bad they could only kill him once.

[apollonia666]

Can we please stop it with the fatphobic remarks about Tara? It's mean and irrelevant.

[SamBeckett]

2 minutes ago, apollonia666 said:

Can we please stop it with the fatphobic remarks about Tara? It's mean and irrelevant.

I agree. It’s uncalled  for. We’re supposed to be talking about the show.

[mightysparrow]

10 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

Your unrelenting loathing of Prince Henry is both admirable and awe-inspiring and I applaud it. 🤣

He may be gone, but the miasma of frustration, anger and dead air he left in his wake may never dissipate. 

To paraphrase Dexter: Too bad they could only kill him once.

Yeah,...I really liked Carl.  I thought both the character and the actor were coming into their own and I was really looking forward to what the future held for both.  What tptb did to Carl/Chandler was beyond disgraceful, in my opinion.  And then they added insult to injury by puking up Henry, as if the viewers were so stupid or so in awe of everything they toss at us, we'd accept ANYTHING. 

What they did to Henry in this episode showed that even the people who created him didn't respect the character.  At the beginning of the season he was supposed to be a substitute for Carl but he just ended up being yet another vehicle in the never-ending saga of 'Poor Carol'.  A complete waste of time and space.

[Captain Asshat]

17 hours ago, Anela said:

Will the walkers dance in formation around them, too? 

Only if they find a way to blast "Thriller" in the background. 

[Iguessnot]

29 minutes ago, mightysparrow said:

Yeah,...I really liked Carl.  I thought both the character and the actor were coming into their own and I was really looking forward to what the future held for both.  What tptb did to Carl/Chandler was beyond disgraceful, in my opinion.  And then they added insult to injury by puking up Henry, as if the viewers were so stupid or so in awe of everything they toss at us, we'd accept ANYTHING. 

What they did to Henry in this episode showed that even the people who created him didn't respect the character.  At the beginning of the season he was supposed to be a substitute for Carl but he just ended up being yet another vehicle in the never-ending saga of 'Poor Carol'.  A complete waste of time and space.

I know it's a popular theory among some to say Henry or Judith or some other character is a Carl substitute, but I don't buy it. If you didn't like Carl dying from a walker bite, would his head on a pole been better?

[Persnickety1]

On 3/25/2019 at 2:43 PM, Mu Shu said:

I’d send her a cake for ridding us of Tara and the Brat Prince.  And fucking Brett Butler’s peanut head.  Now we can focus on.. Aikiko? Magda? Connie’s sister, and the fat guy, who I assume is Osso Bucco?

ah fuck it.  Where in the world is Heath?   Will he end up in the whisper shithole camp?

unpopular opinion.  I wouldn’t have cried if Shane’s kid had been up there. 

I must say, Kang sounds stupid.  About as erudite as a tween.  Who misses a lot of school.  Sorry kids, she’s quite awful with words.  

I thought they should have put the entire Heath story line to bed with this episode and simply have his head on a pike, too.  Since Tara's history now, we'll never know what the dumb ass found that apparently was supposed to be some esoteric clue about Heath's fate.  Better to have wrapped up that whole mess than leave it dangling out there like an albatross.  

As for sending a cake, hell, I was ready to throw her a goddamned parade for getting rid of Tara and Henry was a glorious bonus.

That entire Henry story line made me start wondering all over again why AMC *really* fired Chandler Riggs.  I still believe it was because of salary issues since he was turning 18 and the nefariously tight fisted AMC didn't want to pay the piper, so to speak.  

I didn't see anything unfold with Henry that couldn't have been done with Chandler.  Maybe Chandler's acting wasn't award worthy by any stretch of the imagination, but neither was Henry's.  

I'd have rather seen Carl's head on a pike than have him die the idiotic senseless death they gave him.  At least he would have gone out fighting to the end instead of meeting his fate due to foolishness.  

[Persnickety1]

10 minutes ago, Iguessnot said:

I know it's a popular theory among some to say Henry or Judith or some other character is a Carl substitute, but I don't buy it. If you didn't like Carl dying from a walker bite, would his head on a pole been better?

Oh damn, we were typing at the same time so I just saw this.

Yeah, speaking only for myself, I'd have rather Carl's head be on a pike and have him gone out fighting to the end.

I hated the way in which they killed off Riggs.  The character deserved a better send off.  

[AngelaHunter]

59 minutes ago, Iguessnot said:

If you didn't like Carl dying from a walker bite, would his head on a pole been better?

Those are not the only options. They could have given him a death that would have meant something - maybe defending Judith or saving Rick instead of the then-random unknown, Saddiq(?) - that let him go out in a noble way, not lying there like a moron rookie getting bitten by a decayed carcass. When was the last time any main character and not a redshirt died in such a pedestrian way? I really can't remember.

[Nashville]

On 3/26/2019 at 1:58 AM, Butless said:

Nothing about this guy (character AND actor) isn't annoying as fuck to me.

I bet in the original script he played a ukulele.

That, or a kazoo.

On 3/26/2019 at 5:36 AM, Timetoread said:

This isn’t a power struggle between Alpha and Lydia

I didn’t suggest a power struggle between Awful and Lydia - that would imply two roughly-equivalent personalities jockeying for domination - but rather a power play between the two, as a clearly dominant Awful attempts to forcefully impose her own will over that of a historically subordinate Lydia via intimidation and fear.  And no doubt in my mind that Awful’s over-the-top retribution was equal parts an acting-out of rage for Lydia’s unexpected display of independence in rejecting Awful, as well as an extended attempt to sustain her power play - a great big “Now see what YOU made me do?” aimed square at Lydia to punish her - which again is a hallmark calling card of an abuser, to suggest the abused provoked the abuser into committing their misdeeds.  I’m not overly fond of the Lydia character, but I do feel strongly for her in that respect.

19 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

Given that Alpha had her child run off, I wonder if Alpha tried to spread the pain rage around as much as possible

FTFY

15 hours ago, Ohwell said:

But then Lydia didn't have to leave with Henry, right?

IIRC Lydia didn’t necessarily even want to leave - not overtly, anyway - but Henry refused to leave without Lydia, and she just sort of went along with it out of fondness for Henry.

[Persnickety1]

5 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

Those are not the only options. They could have given him a death that would have meant something - maybe defending Judith or saving Rick instead of the then-random unknown, Saddiq(?) - that let him go out in a noble way, not lying there like a moron rookie getting bitten by a decayed carcass. When was the last time any main character and not a redshirt died in such a pedestrian way? I really can't remember.

I felt the same way about that ridiculous death they gave Tyrees, too.

Why not just kill him off while protecting Judith instead of being "sneaked up on" by a groaning, moaning, shuffling walker teen?

I don't particularly mind it when characters are killed off per se, but at least have their deaths true to the character.

[AngelaHunter]

5 minutes ago, Persnickety1 said:

I felt the same way about that ridiculous death they gave Tyrees, too.

Why not just kill him off while protecting Judith instead of being "sneaked up on" by a groaning, moaning, shuffling walker teen?

Oh, hell, yes! He suffered from "Temporary Plot Deafness" which affects so many. Whoever wrote that episode must have been on acid, from the kid's 1960-era bedroom to the literal gallons of blood shed by Tyreese to the Choir of Dead Blondes, it was all one huge psychedelic mess. I think I actually said aloud, "Please die and let this end!"  I couldn't take any more of that singin'.

13 minutes ago, Persnickety1 said:

but at least have their deaths true to the character.

So Henry should have sneaked some more booze, went off at night into the woods in a hormonal rage, looking for Lydia to get a little, tripped over his shoes and fallen in a hole.  There. True to his character.

[NeganAndLucille]

Too bad Mr smarty pants didn't make the pike team and I wonder what Rick would say about that god awful fare taking place with a massive threat around the corner.

[Yodabeesh]

On 3/24/2019 at 10:46 PM, Kanner said:

I have no reason not to trust Siddiq but that speech at the end was fishy? It was like Shane’s speech about Otis. I really hope I am wrong. 

I thought the SAME exact thing! He could have made that up to make people feel good. <shrugs>

[Persnickety1]

5 hours ago, NeganAndLucille said:

Too bad Mr smarty pants didn't make the pike team and I wonder what Rick would say about that god awful fare taking place with a massive threat around the corner.

That mullet would have looked awesome blowing in the wind.  

4 hours ago, Yodabeesh said:

I thought the SAME exact thing! He could have made that up to make people feel good. <shrugs>

It reminded me of that tale of fuck-and-awe Shane regaled regarding how Otis died.  

I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn Siddiq had sold out to save his own ass.  

[Colorado David]

On 3/25/2019 at 2:54 PM, icemiser69 said:

So the "Scooby Gang" gets killed off.  I wanted the girl with the glasses to live, she seemed nice, but the other two douche bags I didn't care about, and Henry sucks at life.  I am just glad Daryl's dog's head wasn't on a stick.  I was afraid that might have happened.

Daryl should have walked up and yanked Henry's head off of the stick and thrown it at Carol.  Saying, "All of these people died because of that shit ass kid of yours".

Lydia has to be public enemy number one and I don't think Daryl is far behind.  The four communities can't be too happy with those two.  All Daryl had to do was turn over Lydia and that would have been the end of it.  No one would have died.

When the geezers (Daryl, Carol, Michonne, etc.) were being surrounded by the walkers, Carol seemed to be a bit slow in terms of fighting.  Of course behind the walkers were the Whisperers.

Tara deserved a better ending.

The same could be said for Enid.

Snow at the end of the episode, interesting.

I had to watch part of the "Talking Dead" to figure out who croaked.  Those heads weren't "productions" best work.

I will miss Tara and Enid for sure.

AGREED on some of the pike faces, without a good distinct hairstyle kinda tough to figure out who from who.

Can't paint Daryl to blame, Henry well yeah a large chunk of it. I don't mind Tara unlike the majority, sorry she died, ditto Enid.  Trying to protect the group, wrong place wrong time, wrong team member.

[AngelaHunter]

On 3/27/2019 at 10:28 AM, mightysparrow said:

And then they added insult to injury by puking up Henry, as if the viewers were so stupid or so in awe of everything they toss at us, we'd accept ANYTHING.

The only enjoyment I got from Henry was when Charles Vane knocked him on his punk ass and I was hoping he'd beat the shit out of the brat. My hopes were dashed when Daryl stuck his nose in and saved the little shit from a well-deserved whuppin'. Oh, god - Henry has turned ME into someone cheering child abuse. 🙄

I was sorry to see Enid impaled since she was happy with her boyfriend and her doctoring and all, but then remembered she blew away poor Oceanside Granny. Maybe it wasn't totally her fault, but Aaron's for taking some young,  jittery girl on his Great Mission. Smart move, Aaron. So I dunno.

Edited March 28, 2019 by AngelaHunter
added word

[Iguessnot]

10 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

Those are not the only options. They could have given him a death that would have meant something - maybe defending Judith or saving Rick instead of the then-random unknown, Saddiq(?) - that let him go out in a noble way, not lying there like a moron rookie getting bitten by a decayed carcass. When was the last time any main character and not a redshirt died in such a pedestrian way? I really can't remember.

I understand hating how a character is written. I just disagree with the notion that Henry was merely a cut out replacement of Carl; thus Carl was supposed to be on a pole.

Maybe that would have been Carl's fate, but he sure wouldn't have been in prison after trying to impress some rebellious teens. Interaction with Lydia would have been different since Carl was involved with Enid.

[Iguessnot]

1 hour ago, AngelaHunter said:

The only enjoyment I got from Henry was when Charles Vane knocked him on his punk ass and I was hoping he'd beat the shit out of the brat. My hopes were dashed when Daryl stuck his nose in and saved the little shit from a well-deserved whuppin'. Oh, god - Henry has turned into someone cheering child abuse. 🙄

I was sorry to see Enid impaled since she was happy with her boyfriend and her doctoring and all, but then remembered she blew away poor Oceanside Granny. Maybe it wasn't totally her fault, but Aaron's for taking some young,  jittery girl on his Great Mission. Smart move, Aaron. So I dunno.

Some kids can be reasoned with. Others act like a two year old drawn to traffic and need to see the back of one's hand to keep their destructive impulses under control.

[SamBeckett]

Here’s a random question — did we even see Aaron anytime in this episode? Maybe we did and it was in passing so I missed it. But if we didn’t, then it’d be so typical of this show. Aaron is by now, due to attrition, in the upper echelon of characters. Yet, a casual viewer wouldn’t know that. And chances are good when the camera happens to fall on Rosita, the same casual viewer would say: “Who’s that?”

[Fellaway]

40 minutes ago, SamBeckett said:

Here’s a random question — did we even see Aaron anytime in this episode? Maybe we did and it was in passing so I missed it. But if we didn’t, then it’d be so typical of this show. Aaron is by now, due to attrition, in the upper echelon of characters. Yet, a casual viewer wouldn’t know that. And chances are good when the camera happens to fall on Rosita, the same casual viewer would say: “Who’s that?”

Yep, I was wondering the whole ep where Aaron was.  I admit I haven't watched episodes 9-14, so I was afraid he'd been killed off.

[Nashville]

15 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

I wonder why they decided that the fair should be held at Kingdom?

The Kingdom was the one pushing it the hardest; it was a trade fair, and they desperately needed the trade.

[Nashville]

26 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

I can think of a couple of wigs that they can trade. 

Only if they come with flea dip and a leash.

[phoenix780]

I'm way late, but I keep re-watching the heads reveal because it's a symphony of overkill. The pained looks on the living as they walked closer, the dramatic reveal for each dead character, the way they had the heads move (side note: props to the Whisperers for taking enough time to cut off a head and stick it on a pike while keeping it a walker), and the hyper-insistent violins (playing over another song at one point)- it was a lot, to a point where it was almost a parody and not something that was supposed to be super dramatic and sad. 

I'll take it over the deaths of Glenn and Abraham, and I'm glad they didn't make this a cliffhanger guessing game. But, man, maybe pull back on one thing. 

[Ohwell]

Speaking of acting like the king, have we ever seen Ezekiel do anything even remotely useful, like growing crops or building anything?  Maybe he has but I don't remember seeing anything.

[iMonrey]

I for one found the narrative unnecessarily confusing. The way they kept going back and forth in the timeline was distracting - they showed Ezekial saying goodbye to Carol after we'd already seen her captured by the Whisperers, for example. 

I wish the show had the guts and writing talent to go back to a more linear form of story-telling. That's what attracted me to it in the first place all the way back in Season 1. The show didn't have to rely on flashbacks and time jumps and conflicting perspectives to be compelling. It was a straightforward narrative that moved in a normal, linear fashion. 

All these gimmicks they rely on now belies the weakness in the ideas they have for the story itself. 

[AngelaHunter]

39 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I for one found the narrative unnecessarily confusing. The way they kept going back and forth in the timeline was distracting

They have never learned how to do flashbacks in any kind of coherent or cohesive fashion and I guess they never will.

Insomnia last night had me searching my library for something to watch and I ended up with Se02 Ep13. Watching that right after the latest ep here had me shaking my head in sadness and disbelief at the deterioration of, well, just about everything connected with this show.

53 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

Speaking of acting like the king, have we ever seen Ezekiel do anything even remotely useful, like growing crops or building anything?

If he ever did anything but orate and sit on the "throne" I have no memory of it.