S03.E17: R&B

[Neurochick]

11 hours ago, AmandaPanda said:

The writers have now made all of these characters so thoroughly dislikable to me that I already decided I'm out after the season finale. The writers want me to see Beth in the wrong here? No, screw that. Randall has been silencing Beth for years. I'm not going to see that as being romantic. It's not romantic when Jack silences Rebecca. It's not when Randall does it to Beth or when Toby does it to Kate (or vice versa). 

It's one thing for your boss to silence you, but if your husband is silencing you, if you don't feel safe enough to speak, then maybe you're married to the wrong person.  If Beth chose not to say anything that's on her.  

Edited March 27, 2019 by Neurochick

[TVForever]

Here's a question:

How can I lobby for Emmys ( that's TV, right) for the actors playing the teen versions of these characters and the casting directors who chose them? Because they've done some great work there!

[thesupremediva1]

12 hours ago, mtlchick said:

"Between which of your anxiety attacks?"  I gasped out loud.  That may have been worse than the voice mail and that's saying a lot.

I had the same reaction. I was wondering how bad it would have to get for Randall to give up. That was the line.

I guess I can't really write this without getting personal - I had this argument with someone once. The great love of my young life said that to me when we were breaking up. It hurt like hell at 27 in our living room condo after almost 4 years. Thank God we weren't married, and the house was a rental. But I remember hearing that and feeling like I'd fallen into quicksand - everything was sinking and I couldn't save it. He didn't hide his annoyance as well as Beth hid hers, but I'd never heard that level of malice and resentment directed toward me  before. 

I was firmly on Beth's side in this entire argument. This episode really puzzled me at points because it would make you believe Beth and Randall had no business being together, let alone getting married - when for three years, they've been shown as the solid, unsinkable couple. 

I cannot imagine how crushing it was for Randall to hear Beth say out loud that his anxiety held her back in life at that point. 20 years later, a home, two children, a foster child - and that's really how she feels. All that work, all those accomplishments, all that joy - when just beneath the surface was her dissatisfaction. I know she wasn't trying to be cruel, I know she wishes she hadn't said it - but she meant it. And that's devastating.

Randall IS a lot. I think in his passion he sometimes doesn't realize he's evangelizing people into roles or responsibilities they don't want. But as I share many characteristics with Randall, I just can't be mad at him. That's how he loves. 

I didn't want to blame anyone this episode. I just felt bad for them. Watching this opened up a lot of old wounds. Anxiety sufferers worry at all times. It's how we are wired. The biggest fear is that anxiety - which already owns us - will cost us everything. It prevents us from feeling maximum joy. But sometimes, like we watched tonight, it actually has the capacity to steal our joy - or erase 20 years of it. When that fear is realized, it's like a death. It's debilitating. And it makes us not want to "manage" it anymore. What's the point, if you've already lost your reason for fighting? I saw all that on Sterling's face tonight when he left the house. Both performances were Emmy worthy.

Edited March 27, 2019 by thesupremediva1

[Blakeston]

24 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

I see that as part of the clunkiness of the writing of this episode. I guess they meant to show how crazy Randall was about her from the jump, but she was not so much. Then they jump ahead 7 years to when they are living together and she's school/career oriented and he's repeatedly proposing. Nothing in between.  Then the sort of absurdity of them writing their vows together, after she hadn't had the time and he had written a dissertation. Like they were contrasting them  too heavy-handedly. Put another way, there was zero subtlety and they were covering a long span of time awkwardly.

The only decent explanation I can think of for that awkward seven-year time jump was that they didn't have anyone who could realistically play Beth and Randall at, say, 22 years old.

The teen actors can't pass for being that old, and Sterling K. Brown and Susan Kelechi Watson can't pass for being that young. They were already really pushing it age-wise by trying to pass off Sterling K. Brown for mid-20s with those Steve Urkel glasses.

[Seelouis]

17 minutes ago, TVForever said:

Here's a question:

How can I lobby for Emmys ( that's TV, right) for the actors playing the teen versions of these characters and the casting directors who chose them? Because they've done some great work there!

Yes!  Even the actress playing young Beth.  There was a moment in the restaurant where Randall was talking about his adoption, his dad dying, etc. that young Beth gave a slight look with her eyes that was exactly how adult Beth looks. 

[3 is enough]

3 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

Ginger beer?  Given the area in which they grew up in, I would have thought for sure that birch beer would have been the preferred drink, not ginger beer.

I have come to the realization that listening to people argue on television isn't the least bit entertaining.  It is a waste of time.

Maybe the ginger beer was a Jamaican thing that she grew up with?  I lived in PA for a few years.  I remember birch beer.  Nasty (to me, anyhow), it smelled like Mr. Clean.

I'm with you- watching people argue on television is NOT entertaining.  

[TVForever]

15 minutes ago, Seelouis said:

Yes!  Even the actress playing young Beth.  There was a moment in the restaurant where Randall was talking about his adoption, his dad dying, etc. that young Beth gave a slight look with her eyes that was exactly how adult Beth looks. 

That moment! I saw it too!

[kilda]

37 minutes ago, TVForever said:

Here's a question:

How can I lobby for Emmys ( that's TV, right) for the actors playing the teen versions of these characters and the casting directors who chose them? Because they've done some great work there!

I thought teen Kevin was especially uncanny in channeling adult Kevin.  

[txhorns79]

1 hour ago, PRgal said:

Also, 2017-ish Beth:  I would have been firm and said, "no, Randall, I'm going to that hotel room to binge on Living Single and eat bon bons.  And that's final."  

I'm pretty sure you are only allowed to do that in a '90s kind of world. 

56 minutes ago, Ohmo said:

It's like I said before.  We saw that they WERE together, but the WHY they were together was missing.  For Randall, it came across as his interpretation of what you do in college---you find someone to marry.  For Beth, it seemed like a business investment.  She had invested so much time into her relationship that she might as well marry Randall, but that isn't love.

That's a good way to put it.  Randall was acting like he was in a romantic comedy, while Beth was essentially checking her watch to see how soon this would all be over.

[WendyM]

7 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Still Team Beth. While I agree that her comment about his anxiety attacks was hurtful, to me there is a big difference between what she said and Randall's message last week.

Randall was claiming that he would have supported her desire to teach dance if it had happened at any other point in their marriage (this coming from the man who guilt tripped his wife about wanting to spend ONE DAY by herself after the kids were born), which assumes that he would have been willing to adjust his schedule and his priorities to support what she wanted to do and take some of the onus of doing stuff around the house (like childcare, cooking, cleaning, and generally taking care of everyone). Beth's response was, "When would I have done that? Between which of your anxiety attacks?"

Beth was shown in past seasons to be supportive of Randall when he was having his anxiety attacks, and that's great because he was going through a lot, but that doesn't mean that it didn't also take a toll ON HER. That's just the truth. No, it's not Randall's fault that he has anxiety just like it's not someone's fault if they have cancer or any other sort of illness, but it's still hard on the patient's partner (as well as their family and friends, but the brunt is usually borne primarily by the patient's partner). And if Randall wants to claim that he would have supported Beth's desire to teach dance at any time, that's not 100% true because he would have been in no position to do so while he was having all those anxiety attacks and going blind with stress.

Again, I'm not blaming Randall for these things because it's not his fault that he was having these problems, but I think he also took it for granted that Beth was fine working, taking care of the kids, cooking, cleaning, and being his emotional support system, not realizing how stressful it was for HER. Maybe it's hard to hear that, but that doesn't make it any less true. Being put in a position where she had to take care of him was hard on her. I don't think anyone's partner can get through an illness without it taking a huge toll on them. To me, this was Beth pointing out that (1) she took on a lot and (2) his claim that he would have supported her decision AT ANY TIME before now is not true. I don't think she said it to be deliberately hurtful (she immediately looked like she regretted saying it which is why I think it slipped out rather than being something she said on purpose to hurt him). I think she said it because it's true and it's something that he hasn't considered AT ALL.

This. The toll on her--especially with children to take care of, too--had to be overwhelming. She had no way of knowing if he'd recover, or if his episodes could be managed. How scary. As the partner of someone who's had multiple nervous breakdowns over the past 30 years, it's only recently that I've started to realize how much of a toll it's taken a toll on me. And we don't have children. (Thank god!)

That whole thing a couple of weeks ago with Rebecca and Miguel saying they're moving to California and wouldn't be able to provide child care for Randall and Beth--well, that takes on new meaning for me because what a rejection that must have been for Randall, coming from the mother who clearly (hardly ever) said no to him. Wow.

Also, he SHOULD be sleeping in Philly every night. That's where his job is! Those are his people! My mind is still blown that he was elected, given that he doesn't...oh, you know...LIVE THERE. (I happen to have a senator who now runs for president all the time and I will say no more.)

[Ohmo]

2 hours ago, jmonique said:

It wasn’t about being queen. It was a matter of respecting her wishes after demeaning her and her career. Randall was nasty and cold and used her yet again to further his whim of a career, and when she asked for space he of course wouldn’t give it to her. 

Because he’s Randall the Wonder Boy and has no concept of respect for his immediate family.

I don't think that's fair.  If she doesn't want him in the marital bed, that's one thing, but I agree that the house is also his.  Have him sleep on the couch, or if Beth decides that she wants THAT much space, then she's free to go to a hotel and leave him with the kids for one night.  Yes, he said something nasty, but she all of a sudden decreed that he be banished from their home because of a fight.  That was a disproportionate response.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Regarding Beth wearing a sweatshirt on their first date - when Randall called to ask her out, he said he would pick her up at 7pm the next night. He never said where he was taking her. I assumed that when he picked her up, (1) he still didn’t tell her where they were going because he wanted it to be a surprise and (2) he was so excited that he didn’t really pay much attention to what she was wearing. I imagine his inner monologue when he arrived was something along the lines of “OMG OMG OMG I’m here and we are about to go on our first date! Be cool, Randall, be cool. What did Kevin say I should do? I should definitely open the door for her. Dad always did gentlemanly things like that for mom. I can’t wait for mom to meet Beth. Maybe I can see if mom wants to come visit next weekend so I can introduce them. Or I can see if Beth wants to come home to meet mom and then we can have dinner, watch a movie, maybe play some board games. I wonder what Beth’s favorite board game is. Do you think she’s the top hat when she plays Monopoly? Oh, crap. She’s looking at me. Did she ask me a question?”

[MsChicklet]

16 hours ago, mtlchick said:

"Between which of your anxiety attacks?"  I gasped out loud.  That may have been worse than the voice mail and that's saying a lot.

Yeah, that was cruel. It happens when someone feels hurt and angry enough to lash out, it can be a rush of power and relief to be able to hurt back, but, like the voicemail, it can't be deleted or forgotten.

Randall, like Kevin, has been able to get through many things in life with his charm. But that has also given him a big, honking blind spot to seeing things from others' points of view. Deja has called him on it at least once. His one flash of clarity came when he remembered the Jack and Rebecca fight and wouldn't escalate to Jack's level. But that may have made things worse by also not acknowledging that Beth had cause for feeling how she did.

While Beth is in the right about many, maybe even most, things, she is wrong about some things as well. She complained how she had "asked" when she needed a respite while William and Kevin were there. She chose to ask instead of take the lead (boy, was William right) and tell Randall it was happening, this was when, no negotiation, and let him handle things while she was gone without any criticism when she returned. They had a built-in babysitter with Kevin, it's not like the girls were going to die if they lived on pizza and cereal for a couple of days and no one did the laundry. She was caught between her need to take a break and her need to manage things. It's like when she woke up to micromanage and criticize Randall through the diaper change. She may be more like her mom than she knows.

It's how most marriages are. It's not always Team Wife or Team Husband. Both went down the path to where they are now.

Edited March 27, 2019 by MsChicklet

[ElectricBoogaloo]

5 minutes ago, Ohmo said:

Yes, he said something nasty, but she all of a sudden decreed that he be banished from their home because of a fight.  That was a disproportionate response.

On the flip side, she was 20 minutes late for dinner (and for the record, he admitted that it would be really tight schedule wise for her to teach class until 5pm and get to the 8pm dinner when he initially told her about it) and his reaction was to denigrate her job, disparage her, and tell her to grow up, which feels like a disproportionate response. 

Edited March 27, 2019 by ElectricBoogaloo

[3 is enough]

So seven years later and Sunday dinner with Rebecca is set in stone?  And Beth had to show up with a smile on her face every week, even though she and Randall weren't even engaged yet?  That is messed up. And did Rebecca ever say "You know Randall, you don't have to come over every week"?

Before they moved away last July my daughter and her husband used to have a standing invitation to come over for Sunday dinner.  But it wasn't every. single. Sunday, and when they chose to do something else it was just fine- no guilt . 

Edited March 27, 2019 by 3 is enough

[txhorns79]

9 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

On the flip side, she was 20 minutes late for dinner (and for the record, he admitted that it would be really tight schedule wise for her to teach class until 5pm and get to the 8pm dinner when he initially told her about it) and his reaction was to denigrate her job, disparage her, and tell her to grow up, which feels like a disproportionate response. 

Seriously.  He disparaged her job as "teaching bored housewives how to twirl."  At best, that's a nasty comment made in the heat of the moment.  At worst, Randall is saying he has no respect for his wife.

[bichonblitz]

Every time I start to waiver between who is worse, Randall or Beth, I remember Randall wanting to bring a troubled teenager in to the household to foster then adopt. Not caring if or how it will affect his wife and daughters. Team Beth wins every time. 

[Racj82]

Come on. Randall was CREEPY for the I'm going to marry her comment?

He was smitten. Has no one every felt that way before. Despite all logic, in your head, all you can think is I'm going to get that guy or girl?

Saying I'm going to marry her is over the top but so is Randall. 

I also think he fell for how strong she was. The rejection was just a extension of that.

I'm curious about what happened to turn her around. That was a big jump. Was it another grand gesture. Did she contact him first? She did obviously see something in him too.

No winners or losers in this fight. Because they are both flawed individuals.

I also don't get how all if the this show is pro jack and Randall people don't see that this season is at least partially a deconstruction of both of them. The show knows who these characters are for the good or bad. They are leaning into it. They are purposely showing those two as the saints they seem to be but also breaking down the reality of their behavior.

[Racj82]

31 minutes ago, 3 is enough said:

So seven years later and Sunday dinner with Rebecca is set in stone?  And Beth had to show up with a smile on her face every week, even though she and Randall weren't even engaged yet?  That is messed up. And did Rebecca ever say "You know Randall, you don't have to come over every week"?

Before they moved away last July my daughter and her husband used to have a standing invitation to come over for Sunday dinner.  But it wasn't every. single. Sunday, and when they chose to do something else it was just fine- no guilt . 

Randall is Rebecca's surrogate Jack and the show leaned into that. Randall was and tried to be everything Jack was to her and she let it happen. 

I can't totally fault either one. I'm not up under my mom the way Randall was but I always feel such a duty to be there for my mom as she gets older as is alone technically.

[Blakeston]

37 minutes ago, Ohmo said:

I don't think that's fair.  If she doesn't want him in the marital bed, that's one thing, but I agree that the house is also his.  Have him sleep on the couch, or if Beth decides that she wants THAT much space, then she's free to go to a hotel and leave him with the kids for one night.  Yes, he said something nasty, but she all of a sudden decreed that he be banished from their home because of a fight.  That was a disproportionate response.

If anything, by Beth's rules, Randall would have been justified in telling Beth to sleep somewhere else after she threw his anxiety attacks in his face.

I absolutely believe that it's justifiable to demand that your spouse to sleep somewhere else if a) they've in any way physically threatened you, or b) you've just learned they cheated on you. Otherwise, I think you should talk about your issues, rather than banishing them from your home.

3 minutes ago, bichonblitz said:

Every time I start to waiver between who is worse, Randall or Beth, I remember Randall wanting to bring a troubled teenager in to the household to foster then adopt. Not caring if or how it will affect his wife and daughters. Team Beth wins every time. 

Beth was actually the one who came up with the idea to foster a troubled teen, and convinced Randall that it was a good idea.

Randall has obviously done a lot of different things to inconvenience Beth, and his idea to adopt a baby might have been even more disruptive. But Beth signed on for a lot of these decisions, without being forced her to. It's not like she's some shrinking violet who didn't feel like she could stand up to her husband.

[Ohmo]

34 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

On the flip side, she was 20 minutes late for dinner (and for the record, he admitted that it would be really tight schedule wise for her to teach class until 5pm and get to the 8pm dinner when he initially told her about it) and his reaction was to denigrate her job, disparage her, and tell her to grow up, which feels like a disproportionate response. 

All of that is within the context of a fight---a loud, ugly fight, but still a fight.  To throw someone out of a house that is just as much his as it is hers is a disproportionate response to a fight, in my opinion.  Asking him to sleep on the couch, sure.  Saying that she needs to leave because she needs space and he's responsible for the kids, sure, but since she wants the space, I think the agency should come from her---just like if he needed the space, then he would need to leave.  If neither wanted to leave, also fine.  Then be separate in the house.

[gonzosgirrl]

9 hours ago, bros402 said:

So Randall did that horrible voicemail last episode and Beth goes for the throat with that anxiety attack comment. Maybe they'll both realize they went a bit too far, Randall resigns from the councilman position, have a company manage the apartment building, and figure out what he wants to do

I think if Randall resigns (has he even officially been sworn in yet?) his position, after all his impassioned speechifying to get the people of the district to trust and believe in him, it will follow him forever. Or it should/would, were he not Randall Pearson for whom everything is justifiable. I guess a teary-eyed confession of how much his family needs him will earn the forgiveness of all who voted for him. They'll probably throw a thank you/farewell party for him.

I do think Beth's shot about his anxiety was a lower blow than his teaching bored housewives to twirl, but that's what happens in a fight sometimes, especially when no one seems to be 'winning' - it gets ugly. That's realistic, in my opinion. Hopefully they can each forgive the other, but I am more convinced than ever that they will divorce.

I thought Beth's comment about how Randall gets his way, along with Zoe's last week, when she talked about the therapist 'trying not to smile' at Kevin, were two astute observations. I can't believe it's over next week - it really does feel like not much happened this season.

[bybrandy]

Am I the only one who sometimes needs time by themselves?   After the fight Beth and Randall had when beth told him to go sleep on his cot, I really thought she wasn't so much banishing him from the house as it was needing time to cool down and knowing that if they went back to the house she wouldn't get that time.  Randall had another place to sleep so she told him to go there.   

I didn't see it as her banishing him as much as I saw it as her demanding some space so she could cool down and then he came in pushing for a fight when she didn't have the time she needed to cool down.   My sister does this.  She pushes and pushes an pushes and pushes and I tell her to go and she pushes harder an then I blow up.  Or she pushes and pushes and pushes and I go and then she tells me I'm emotionally imature for walking out when I'm being emotionally mature enough to KNOW I need to simmer down before any real meaningful conversation can happen.  

I can't imagine being in that situation in a marriage where my need for space was disrespected on the regular and not once or twice a year.  

 

[Mldh598]

1 hour ago, Seelouis said:

Yes!  Even the actress playing young Beth.  There was a moment in the restaurant where Randall was talking about his adoption, his dad dying, etc. that young Beth gave a slight look with her eyes that was exactly how adult Beth looks. 

Totally agree! From infants to teens to adults, it is amazing how they cast everyone. Not only in looks, but mannerisms. 

[jmonique]

58 minutes ago, Ohmo said:

I don't think that's fair.  If she doesn't want him in the marital bed, that's one thing, but I agree that the house is also his.  Have him sleep on the couch, or if Beth decides that she wants THAT much space, then she's free to go to a hotel and leave him with the kids for one night.  Yes, he said something nasty, but she all of a sudden decreed that he be banished from their home because of a fight.  That was a disproportionate response.

I still think that Randall, who has shown amazing concern for everyone but his immediate family (still can't believe he dumped Kate and Toby to RUSH to the bedside of two people he had just met), could have abided by his very hurt wife's wishes after he cut her and her profession down, and sacked up and gone to Philly or just not gone home for one night, as Beth asked. He was wrong -- very wrong. He ran over and belittled her desire to grab drinks with her colleagues, and guilt tripped and gaslit her into yet another function for him. And when she was late, he just kept harassing her by phone. He wasn't worried that something might have happened. No, she did him wrong, so he had to cut her down.

So when she still sucked it up and played the charming political wife and asked for some space, Randall STILL couldn't see it from her point of view. If he had just went home and slept in the basement, that would have been a dick move, but fine. No, he stalked into the bedroom and HAD TO THROW DOWN. THAT NIGHT. He was in the wrong, yet he had to push it and force the issue because it's ALWAYS about what Randall and the rest of the Pearsons need. Not what Beth or Toby or Miguel or even Nicky need. Just the sanctimonious Pearsons, who seriously need therapy already.

Also, to touch on some points made earlier, we don't know that Randall had only two or three panic attacks over the course of 15 or 18 years that he's been with Beth. We just know of the big ones.

Edited March 27, 2019 by jmonique

[ZeroDiscipline]

2 hours ago, Guinnessgirl said:

I guess for me I don't get why the girls can't do their own laundry, make their lunches, put the dishes in the dishwasher, etc..  I feel like R & B do way too much for them which is causing additional strain.  Just my opinion.

Yes, yes a thousand times yes. The older girls are like 12 and 13. This is the age that kids start babysitting other people's kids. The girls could step it up at home to help their mom be able to teach a few nights a week, presumably at a dance studio that is closer to their home than Philadelphia. Perhaps they would need someone to pick them up from school if it is a transportation issue. But once they get home- they can chill out until their mom gets home from dance class. It's not like Beth teaches until midnight or whatever. Most working families in America have to figure this shit out, and most don't have the advantage of living in a huge ass house with no mortgage (Randall said he bought that pig for cash in an earlier episode bragging to dying William about how successful Randall became even though William failed him so hard). A dance instructor's schedule could actually work out really well for them if Randall would stop being such a little bitch about controlling everything. Don't we all know families where one of the parents is a musician, or an ER nurse, or a yoga instructor, or a waiter or whatever else and their schedule isn't 9-5? There are trade-offs, for instance, Beth would be around more during the day, enabling her to get ahead on household chores, school events, etc. and has the added bonus of not having to be all done-up for work at a job that starts at 9am. The privilege of all of the people on this show has become obnoxious. 

[nlkm9]

14 hours ago, BuckeyeLou said:

Beth is saying "You're a Lot!" and "It's a Lot!" tonight...Randall's personality is just so over the top that he is a LOT to deal with.  Poor Beth needs a mental health break from him.  She loves him but Randall IS a LOT!

hate to say it...beth was a b*tch even in college. but a lot of what she said is true--Randall does "consume" you and that has to be exhausting. I miss William, wish they would bring him back more.

[GodsBeloved]

4 minutes ago, Racj82 said:

Randall is Rebecca's surrogate Jack and the show leaned into that. Randall was and tried to be everything Jack was to her and she let it happen. 

YES!!!

Randall may be her favorite but Rebecca was grossly unfair to Randall. I remember after Jack died, there's a scene with Randall paying the bills or reminding Rebecca it was time to pay bills. And now we see that 9 years later, he's so attached to her that he's bringing Rebecca on his date with Beth. No way no how should Rebecca have allowed Randall to stay in Pittsburgh when his plan was to go to Morehouse (?)

Rebecca was far too dependent on Randall.

[Ohmo]

1 minute ago, bybrandy said:

I didn't see it as her banishing him as much as I saw it as her demanding some space so she could cool down and then he came in pushing for a fight when she didn't have the time she needed to cool down. 

I have no issue with her wanting space.  I have an issue with where she wanted the space to be.  I'm a person who needs a lot of space and alone time, but in a space that's not mine, it's up to me to create it.  That house is as much Randall's as it is Beth's.  If it was her apartment, her dorm, or her anything else, then yes, she gets to make the rules.  If as was said above, Randall threatened, harmed, or cheated on her, then yes, but to suddenly make the house yours because of an argument is presuming on Beth's part.  Now, if she said that she needed some space, went to a hotel, and he wouldn't leave her be, then I'd agree with her.  Then he would be disrespecting her attempts to create space.

[DoubleUTeeEff]

I don't think R&B's problems stem from what Beth failed to do but from what Randall failed to do. He never considered Beth's feelings, needs or desires. I can't believe I'm going to use the nacho analogy but here goes. Randall took all of the cheesiest chips without leaving some for Beth. He didn't consider, hey maybe it's only fair if I leave half of these for Beth. Beth dealt with that for 20 years and now she's decided to put her foot down in order to have something she wants.  As she said, "she will not bend." Especially since that whole time, she was accommodating Randall's feelings, needs and desires while he not only didn't try and accommodate hers but fought with her when she did want something--like space to be by herself for awhile. So now that she "will not bend" it seems unfair to Randall. What do they say, when you are accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression. I think it's commendable that Beth has always considered Randall and really sad that Randall has never considered Beth. I think the healthiest type of relationship is one where both partners consider each other's feelings. One person shouldn't have to fight the other to get what they want or need in the relationship. Obviously, you need to have a discussion about it but both sides should be ready to compromise rather than just assume that everything is going to be their way all the time and then wear the other person down until they win.

[nlkm9]

1 hour ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Regarding Beth wearing a sweatshirt on their first date - when Randall called to ask her out, he said he would pick her up at 7pm the next night. He never said where he was taking her. I assumed that when he picked her up, (1) he still didn’t tell her where they were going because he wanted it to be a surprise and (2) he was so excited that he didn’t really pay much attention to what she was wearing. I imagine his inner monologue when he arrived was something along the lines of “OMG OMG OMG I’m here and we are about to go on our first date! Be cool, Randall, be cool. What did Kevin say I should do? I should definitely open the door for her. Dad always did gentlemanly things like that for mom. I can’t wait for mom to meet Beth. Maybe I can see if mom wants to come visit next weekend so I can introduce them. Or I can see if Beth wants to come home to meet mom and then we can have dinner, watch a movie, maybe play some board games. I wonder what Beth’s favorite board game is. Do you think she’s the top hat when she plays Monopoly? Oh, crap. She’s looking at me. Did she ask me a question?”

No, she was dressed like she didnt care, whether it was a walk around the block or McDonalds or a nice place. A setup for the classic "pursuer vs the distancer". She just never seemed like she liked him but all of a sudden she loved him so much? I guess i missed something from the constant poposals to that- man those chips were making me hungry lol.

[Ohmo]

19 minutes ago, jmonique said:

No, he stalked into the bedroom and HAD TO THROW DOWN. THAT NIGHT.

I think he did that because she just decreed that he shouldn't come home that night.  As if it should just be so.

To use the theme of equality that they keep bringing up, neither one is behaving that way.  I agree that his message was bad.  It was "because I want it."

However, she did the exact same thing by just announcing that he should not come home.  It was because she wanted it.

Both of them are so busy trying to direct the other into doing this or not doing that.  This need to ultimately be THE one in charge of the marriage is what will be their demise..and they're both guilty of doing it.

[Bean421]

25 minutes ago, GodsBeloved said:

YES!!!

Randall may be her favorite but Rebecca was grossly unfair to Randall. I remember after Jack died, there's a scene with Randall paying the bills or reminding Rebecca it was time to pay bills. And now we see that 9 years later, he's so attached to her that he's bringing Rebecca on his date with Beth. No way no how should Rebecca have allowed Randall to stay in Pittsburgh when his plan was to go to Morehouse (?)

Rebecca was far too dependent on Randall.

I would love to see this acknowledged. Randall felt he couldn't abandon his grieving mother and they've been enmeshed for decades. Now she and Miguel and leaving for LA I wonder how this will play out in that relationship. 

[bybrandy]

7 minutes ago, Bean421 said:

Now she and Miguel and leaving for LA I wonder how this will play out in that relationship. 

I absolutely support Miguel and Rebecca living wherever they want and them being their for Kate and Toby especially since baby Jack is going to need a little extra support right now.  However, if I was Randall I think I'd be feeling like my mom was moving away from my children the very second that her first biological grandchild was born.   

And, really, truly I'm not saying that is what Beth is doing.  But I think if I were Randall I might have some insecurities that made me wonder/worry about that.

[Biggie B]

When I saw the title of this episode, "R&B," I thought it meant "rhythm and blues." At one point, current day Randall said to Beth that their rhythm was off and had been off for some time, and certainly both of them are experiencing the blues right now. It wasn't until reading this thread that I saw that "R&B" meant Randall and Beth. D'oh!!

I'm intrigued by the lavender-scented toilet paper that Kevin likes. I'm old enough to remember when toilet paper came in different colors (pastel yellow, pink, blue, or green) in addition to white, but I've never experienced scented toilet paper. Interesting!

[Mrs.Monkey]

Are you even allowed to pay by check at a restaurant? And how is writing a check going to prove he has the funds to cover dinner? I can write a check for a million dollars but it doesn't mean I have that money in my account.  It made no sense.

[kilda]

38 minutes ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

I don't think R&B's problems stem from what Beth failed to do but from what Randall failed to do. He never considered Beth's feelings, needs or desires. I can't believe I'm going to use the nacho analogy but here goes. Randall took all of the cheesiest chips without leaving some for Beth. He didn't consider, hey maybe it's only fair if I leave half of these for Beth. Beth dealt with that for 20 years and now she's decided to put her foot down in order to have something she wants.  As she said, "she will not bend." Especially since that whole time, she was accommodating Randall's feelings, needs and desires while he not only didn't try and accommodate hers but fought with her when she did want something--like space to be by herself for awhile. So now that she "will not bend" it seems unfair to Randall. What do they say, when you are accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression. I think it's commendable that Beth has always considered Randall and really sad that Randall has never considered Beth. I think the healthiest type of relationship is one where both partners consider each other's feelings. One person shouldn't have to fight the other to get what they want or need in the relationship. Obviously, you need to have a discussion about it but both sides should be ready to compromise rather than just assume that everything is going to be their way all the time and then wear the other person down until they win.

Randall thinks their rhythm is off, and that's because she's not playing the part he expects her to anymore.  I think that statement of his was very telling.  He thinks of the way they work as being a team, always in rhythm, but he doesn't realize that only works because Beth's part of that rhythm is to support his choices and smooth the way for him.  He has taken for granted and not noticed all the things she has done for 20 years to make things work for him.

[GodsBeloved]

22 minutes ago, Bean421 said:

I would love to see this acknowledged. Randall felt he couldn't abandon his grieving mother and they've been enmeshed for decades. Now she and Miguel and leaving for LA I wonder how this will play out in that relationship. 

12 minutes ago, bybrandy said:

I absolutely support Miguel and Rebecca living wherever they want and them being their for Kate and Toby especially since baby Jack is going to need a little extra support right now.  However, if I was Randall I think I'd be feeling like my mom was moving away from my children the very second that her first biological grandchild was born.   

And, really, truly I'm not saying that is what Beth is doing.  But I think if I were Randall I might have some insecurities that made me wonder/worry about that.

I have no problem with Rebecca moving to help Kate either. What is ironic to me is Randall stayed because Rebecca "needed" him. Now that Randall "needs" Rebecca, she's hightailing it outta there.

Of course she going to help Kate, though I'm not sure why there is a need to move instead of making it an extended visit, but the irony for me is still there.

[ShadowFacts]

5 minutes ago, Mrs.Monkey said:

Are you even allowed to pay by check at a restaurant? And how is writing a check going to prove he has the funds to cover dinner? I can write a check for a million dollars but it doesn't mean I have that money in my account.  It made no sense.

I remember most places, including some restaurants, taking checks twenty years ago, even some small local ones still do.  But you're right, it's no guarantee it will be any good.  (Grocery stores used to have lists posted on the registers of people they wouldn't accept checks from.)  However I think this was solely done to shoo them out of the place.  I felt so bad for Randall, it called back to his prom night and his date's father.  Poor guy was willing to suck up that waiter's ugly request because he was swoony for Beth.

[bybrandy]

50 minutes ago, Ohmo said:

  Now, if she said that she needed some space, went to a hotel, and he wouldn't leave her be, then I'd agree with her.  Then he would be disrespecting her attempts to create space.

Ordinarily, I would agree with you.  In a place where a space belongs to both me and somebody else and I am the one that needs space I am the one that also needs to vacate that space.  However, in this situation I do not because Randall has already made a space for himself by installing a cot or a bed or whatever in his office.  He has another free space to go to and Beth does not.  In a fight that they are having that Beth isn't making enough money and her job isn't important because of that telling her to then go to a hotel when Randall has a free place to sleep is just adding more strain to a strained situation.

One time, once, I sent my college roommate home when we were in a fight.   My father had died and my mother had moved cross country and we had a friendship ending fight (which was no doubt caused by situational depression I had based on the previous two things) and I needed space but I no longer had a place I could go.  She had a house and a family a couple hours down the road.  

To me Randall's and Beth's situation is that.  Randall said some things that were so hurtful that she needed space and he already had a space.   So he should go there.  

I absolutely get what you are saying, and I get that I'm in the  minority but in this case I just don't see where it makes sense for Beth to go to a hotel when Randall has another safe place to sleep, even if she is the one with the problem.
 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

5 minutes ago, GodsBeloved said:

What is ironic to me is Randall stayed because Rebecca "needed" him. Now that Randall "needs" Rebecca, she's hightailing it outta there.

Randall doesn’t need Rebecca specifically. He just wanted some free childcare, preferably Mary Poppins or someone with a PhD in child psychology with an emphasis in adolescent queer studies and foster kid issues. 

[bybrandy]

1 minute ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Randall doesn’t need Rebecca specifically. He just wanted some free childcare, preferably Mary Poppins or someone with a PhD in child psychology with an emphasis in adolescent queer studies and foster kid issues. 

Mary Poppins wouldn't get past the resume round with Randall.  Which is sad.   Because a college kid, heck a responsible high school senior?  Totally all that is needed for the job Randall needs done.   

[nexxie]

15 hours ago, deaja said:

I pretty much only cared about their current fight.

Her anxiety attack line may just be enough to help him recover from the voicemail. They’ve both said terrible things in anger so neither of them can blame the other completely.

Seems the writers wanted to even things up - not a bad idea.

[bybrandy]

19 minutes ago, Mrs.Monkey said:

Are you even allowed to pay by check at a restaurant? And how is writing a check going to prove he has the funds to cover dinner? I can write a check for a million dollars but it doesn't mean I have that money in my account.  It made no sense.

You could at least at some restaurants in the mid-late 90s.  

[GodsBeloved]

Randall: I am killing driving to Philly back and forth everyday. If I'm lucky, I get a chance to catch the girls before they go to bed. If not, I'm stuck sleeping on a pull out in my office. I'm not even sworn in yet Beth and I'm already swamped

Me: And? Who put a gun to your head and forced you to run for office in a city x hours away from home? Who Randall?

Randall: but I still make it back for your dance recital and I still make it home to watch the girls every time you have an evening class.

Me: The girls? Don't you mean YOUR girls? You aren't doing Beth a favor by "watching" YOUR girls any more than she's doing you a favor by "watching" her girls when you are off in Philly.

OK, now I'll go to the corner and take a breath, a deep breath.

Edited March 27, 2019 by GodsBeloved

[GodsBeloved]

11 minutes ago, bybrandy said:

Ordinarily, I would agree with you.  In a place where a space belongs to both me and somebody else and I am the one that needs space I am the one that also needs to vacate that space.  However, in this situation I do not because Randall has already made a space for himself by installing a cot or a bed or whatever in his office.  He has another free space to go to and Beth does not.  In a fight that they are having that Beth isn't making enough money and her job isn't important because of that telling her to then go to a hotel when Randall has a free place to sleep is just adding more strain to a strained situation.

One time, once, I sent my college roommate home when we were in a fight.   My father had died and my mother had moved cross country and we had a friendship ending fight (which was no doubt caused by situational depression I had based on the previous two things) and I needed space but I no longer had a place I could go.  She had a house and a family a couple hours down the road.  

To me Randall's and Beth's situation is that.  Randall said some things that were so hurtful that she needed space and he already had a space.   So he should go there.  

I absolutely get what you are saying, and I get that I'm in the  minority but in this case I just don't see where it makes sense for Beth to go to a hotel when Randall has another safe place to sleep, even if she is the one with the problem.
 

I can see this.

[Blakeston]

1 hour ago, jmonique said:

Also, to touch on some points made earlier, we don't know that Randall had only two or three panic attacks over the course of 15 or 18 years that he's been with Beth. We just know of the big ones.

There's been dialogue that strongly suggested that Randall's season one breakdown was the first time Beth had known him to have an anxiety attack since she was pregnant with Tess.

If the writers were to reveal that she was aware of other anxiety attacks, it would be very misleading on their part.

[Ohmo]

29 minutes ago, bybrandy said:

He has another free space to go to and Beth does not

Beth is still a woman of means enough for a one-night stay in a hotel room.  I would agree with you if she were ill or unable to travel, but in an episode where we actually saw a flashback where she was planning a one-night stay in a hotel room, there is no reason why she couldn't have done so here.

Randall's office is also for his job.  While he was the one who chose that job and its commute, Beth hates everything about that choice and has been loud in her criticism.  In my opinion, she doesn't then get to use that space to send Randall anywhere.  If Randall wanted to willingly retreat to that space, that's his choice but she doesn'r get to hate everything about it and then get to use it for herself and against him.

Edited March 27, 2019 by Ohmo

[qtpye]

10 hours ago, bros402 said:

So Randall did that horrible voicemail last episode and Beth goes for the throat with that anxiety attack comment. Maybe they'll both realize they went a bit too far, Randall resigns from the councilman position, have a company manage the apartment building, and figure out what he wants to do

I am guessing that Randall will resign before he is sworn in and for once will put Beth’s needs ahead of his.

10 hours ago, brokenwing29 said:

Oh, online dating was totally a thing in 1998, especially for young people. Even if they were the only two black students at the college (and it's totally weird if they felt pressured to try dating for that reason), they would have both had plenty of alternatives. I agree with people who have said that Randall was strange for continuing to pursue Beth after she made it clear she wasn't interested. I know that kind of thing is supposed to be cute on kiddie shows, but it's not appropriate in real life. It's like he already had it in his head that she was his future wife (knowing little about her other than he was attracted to her) and winning her over was just another challenge to overcome.

I haaaate this trope. Can you imagine if the genders were reversed and a girl decided a guy who totally tells her to go to hell decided that this is the guy she wants to marry? She would totally get labeled a crazy pathetic bitch.

4 hours ago, Johnny Dollar said:

Randall’s personality issues can be summed up in the fact that both he and Beth lost their fathers while still in high school, but only he uses that experience as an excuse for his “poor me” selfish behavior. Beth’s loss of a very important person in her life can’t even compare to his unspeakable tragedy. This whole family should have gone to therapy twenty years ago. 

Yes, she has to suck up her grief because his feelings always trump hers.

3 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

That would be odd because she did say yes to him. It seemed like she realized on the date that she wasn't interested, or else she could have said no.

My assumption is that Randall picked her up, saw what she was wearing, told her where they were going in case she wanted to change and Beth said that she was fine with what she was wearing. And Randall, being into her, just accepted her attire and drove them there. But even this doesn't make much sense because it still makes Beth look bad.

Honestly, it was a really dumb choice by the show. They simply could have had her wear something a little less casual, so it didn't look like she was utterly repulsed by Randall or not into him despite her having said yes to him. All they needed was to put her in a normal t-shirt, even if it was a plain colour. She said yes to him, which means that she was interested. So why make her dress like she's not going anywhere special? Is it because she felt obligated due to them being the only two black students on campus? Again, it doesn't match up with her saying yes to him on the phone and looking genuinely excited. 

This was so offensive. It was almost like the writers did not think that African Americans would not be going to prestigious schools.

57 minutes ago, nlkm9 said:

No, she was dressed like she didnt care, whether it was a walk around the block or McDonalds or a nice place. A setup for the classic "pursuer vs the distancer". She just never seemed like she liked him but all of a sudden she loved him so much? I guess i missed something from the constant poposals to that- man those chips were making me hungry lol.

Yeah, I dislike it when a female’s “no” is interpreted as “come chase me because I really do not know what I want” Even Jack let it go after his and Rebecca’s disastrous first date. It was she that picked the reigns back up after meeting him again by chance at the grocery store.

[memememe76]

Randall may actually enjoy spending time with his mother, and may even think Beth would too. Not everyone thinks it's a chore to spend time with their parents. I stayed at home while going to school, so I didn't exactly want to spend more time with my folks. But now that I am out of the house, I do see them pretty much every weekend (sat or sun). My cousins who went away to school would take the bus back on the weekend to stay with their parents. I don't see anything wrong with that.