S03.E05: A Show of Unity

[Kohola3]

The royal household visit the Palmerston estate in Ireland following an assassination attempt.

[Bunnyette]

Evil sister up to no good, Albert sulking, creepy math tutor, footman getting it on with an aristocrat...should be a good one!

[TaurusRose]

Okay. What the hell was going on????

[Rhetorica]

Why does Albert always whisper?  I have no idea what he's saying...  I'm looking forward to reading postings about the historical accuracy.  

[Brattinella]

Well, that was breathtaking!

[Kohola3]

1 minute ago, Rhetorica said:

I have no idea what he's saying...  

Two words - closed captioning.  Best thing available!

The duchess and the footman can come to no good.  They are both nuts to think it can, love does not conquer all in that time with the difference between classes.

Feodora needs to go away.

[JustDucky]

Well, that was certainly a thing.

I'm almost glad that the Duchess is having a bit of a fling with the footman, but that's simply because the Duke is written to be a card-carrying asshole.  And because Joseph is hot.  (Did they edit an f-bomb when the Duke confronted the Foreign Minister?  Dear me.)

I was thinking the storyline with Bertie's tutor would take a much darker turn than it did.  (Mind, physical abuse is dark, but that's not where my mind went.  I've been reading too many headlines.)

Is the terseness between Victoria and Albert historically accurate?  

Edited February 11, 2019 by JustDucky
clarification on who dropped the f-bomb

[nora1992]

Anyone here believe in reincarnation, or being possessed by a ghost?  It would explain so much if Daisy Goodwin was possessed by Jackie Collins/Aaron Spelling/Agnes Nixon simultaneously.  What will happen next week?  Will London come to a standstill when the Martians send a landing party, or will that be the season 4 premier?

[Suzysite]

Knowing that Bertie grew up to be a bit of an a-hole himself doesn't diminish the fact that I want to bring the little guy home with me and keep him safe.

[voiceover]

I started out "Meh" but it all improved once we met Lady P.  That's an intriguing marriage!  Honestly, that seems more the norm for the upper classes anyway -- at least the Pams had a sense of humor about it.  Hope she makes good on her promise & shows up in London.  I'm needing a convo w/Victoria about her brother!!  Or is that a subject they're meant to avoid.

@JustDucky: as soon as I saw his tutor put a hand to the back of Bertie's head, and the camera lingered, I went there too.  I'm relieved it wasn't that, though the abuse was bad enough.  Disappointing!  I hope they try again.  The Heir should have a tutor who's not Daddy nor Auntie. Oh yeah: and one who doesn't beat him!

Laurence Fox appears to be having a great time.  But I hope they save room for the 

Spoiler

overwhelming charm factory that was Dizzy.

I loved the release of the dove.  Further proof that V had some amazing political instincts.  Though I agree with Albert's concern, about all that good will disintegrating in her absence.

Edited February 11, 2019 by voiceover
Because there's more than one ducky

[MadyGirl1987]

1 hour ago, JustDucky said:

I was thinking the storyline with Bertie's tutor would take a much darker turn than it did.  (Mind, physical abuse is dark, but that's not where my mind went.  I've been reading too many headlines.)

Is the terseness between Victoria and Albert historically accurate?  

I was thinking molestation as well. My senses were first triggered by the way he put it hand on Bertie’s head when they were saying goodbye and then I was sure something was up when Vicky was asking people if they liked him. Poor Vicky, by the way, asking about a tutor for her. She had a rough time in Germany with her husbands family and the Prussian court. Maybe some formal political education would have smoothed the way...

And yeah... They had a pretty tense relationship at times. Fought hard and loved hard, I guess you could say.

[CCTC]

Joseph and The Duchess might be a little more interesting, if the would bother giving Joseph a personality or have him interact with some of the other staff, so we can get a feel of who he is besides being a horny footman following the duchess around.  He is about as developed as a cardboard cut-out, and we have not really seen any interactions of why he is in love with her other than that she is attractive and he wants to play hero.  The Duchess really is not that much more developed other than she is a bad marriage to an abusive man who seems to be based on Snidely Whiplash.  They are both so obvious and careless in their encounters, that it will be hard to feel sorry fro them when they ultimately get caught.  

Feodora really could make Cruela De Ville look subtle.  It makes Albert look a little foolish of who easily he unquestionably swallows whatever she says.

I thought Albert's "you just want adoration" dig was even more petty than normal, esp. since Victoria seemed to good intentions on the trip as something that needed to be done and not because she wanted their adoration.  I got the impression her speech on the stairs with the bishop and with the dove was because she thought it might help relationships not that she wanted applause.  Her thinking might be overly optimistic like Albert thought, but he seemed pretty dismissive of her diplomatic efforts and nice handling of what could have been an awkward meeting.

I did like Palmerston's wife and their interactions.   

[tennisgurl]

I too was concerned about what was going on between little Bertie and his tutor, and while what was going on was awful enough, it could have been a lot worse. Poor Bertie. 

Feodora is like some kind of phantom ghost woman swooping around being all weird and creepy. What is her deal? What is her end game here? Its not like she can become queen or anything, and she still has a family elsewhere. Can she just never go back, and she will just be the eternal house guest crashing on her little sisters well upholstered coach. 

I liked Lady P. and her unconventional marriage! I bet more than a few people in that time and social bracket had something like that going on. Its nice that they can at least joke about it. Lord knows their relationship is about a thousand times healthier than a lot of ones on this show, especially the Duke and Duchess. My God, that guy might as well have horns and fangs, and maybe a pitchfork he carries around with him, he is such a total asshole. 

Albert really is something of a contradiction of a person. He is so stuffy and obsessed with duty and order and protocol, but he is also quick to get his hands dirty, both literally and figuratively, for the causes he supports or to get to the truth of whatever matter. He is all about decorum and politics, but he has zero patience dealing with people he dislikes or thinks are wrong. He can come off as cold at times, even towards his family, but he can also be very warm towards them, and he deeply cares about the plight of the oppressed and less fortunate, and really tries to do what he can to help. I think I tend to be a bit more forgiving of his worse qualities because I just find him to be really fascinating. 

[LittleIggy]

I would accept Laurence Fox’s Lord Pam’s “boots by the door” invitation! 😏 Loved Lady Palmerston. She was his longtime mistress before they married (in their 50s IRL).

Once again I wanted to cut those foppish curls out of Albert’s face. He was beyond annoying during this episode.

Feodora needs to be shipped back to her principality. She looks like a vampire. I keep expecting the sun to burn her skin.

[madhacker]

13 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

I too was concerned about what was going on between little Bertie and his tutor, and while what was going on was awful enough, it could have been a lot worse. Poor Bertie.  

My question is, wouldn't the punishment for what the tutor did to Bertie be uuuuh severe? I mean the guy was abusing the heir to the throne, I know times were different then, but still. I'm surprised that Albert didn't attack the guy, seeing how protective he is to his kids.

and Yeah, the Duchess and the footman's subplot isn't going to end well. I'm seeing a duel between the husband and the footman in the season finale.

[freddi]

"It's a light wine, suitable for breakfast."  In loco parentis, or loco parent? 

I know children in some cultures have some wine with dinner -- but breakfast?  

[3 is enough]

Yet another detail which is not factual:  Queen Victoria did not have a West Highland White Terrier (Westie) She had a Skye terrier.  Just saying...

Also, the vile Duke of Monmouth is a fictitious character.  There was only one Monmouth, and he lived in the late 1600's.  I have no issue with a non-historical character, but why couldn't they have given him a  fictitious name?  

At this point I have decided that the only thing which is truly historical is the stream of pregnancies...

[magdalene]

Laurence Fox must be having the time of his life playing Palmerston.  He has become my favorite part of this season.  It delights me that Palmerston married his longtime mistress and that their unconventional marriage works for them. And Lady Palmerston is a witty and astute charmer.

I am trying to conceive of a way this can end well for the duchess.  The only solution I can see - the duchess needs to become a widow. As a widow she can carry on with the dishy footman to her hearts content.

Here's a pipe dream - maybe the nasty duke will continue to believe that Palmerston is having an affair with his wife and stupidly challenge Palmerston to a duel.  Since Palmerston wouldn't expose the duchess maybe he would accept the challenge and kill the asshole. That would be a great service to not only to the duchess but also humanity.

Sadly, realistically I fear that the duke may well kill his wife in a fit of rage. Did dukes hang if they kill their wives?

[Quilt Fairy]

1 hour ago, LittleIggy said:

Once again I wanted to cut those foppish curls out of Albert’s face. He was beyond annoying during this episode.

I wanted to loan him a bobby pin.

[Razzberry]

Feodora is so busy planting seeds of distrust and stirring it up, but to what end?  Give me a clue or quit it.   Meanwhile Victoria is shocked and appalled that her presence every few decades in right-nextdoor Ireland isn't universally appreciated.

I've been doing a little digging.  Palmerston did indeed have an estate in Connacht, Co. Sligo, and he's not fondly remembered there according to https://www.sligoheritage.com/archirishvillage.htm

"Palmerston presided over Mullaghmore and North Sligo during the worst years of the Irish Holocaust, the great famine of the mid 19th century. His record during that period is shameful. During the summer and autumn of 1847, nine vessels, carrying over 2,000 persons left Sligo port with tenants evicted and “shovelled out” from his Sligo estates. They arrived in Canada half naked and totally destitute. The city of St. John in the Canadian province of New Brunswick had to take many of Palmerston’s evicted tenants into care and, outraged, sent a scathing letter to Palmerston expressing regret and fury that he or his agents, ‘should have exposed such a numerous and distressed portion of his tenantry to the severity and privation of a New Brunswick winter ......unprovided with the common means of support, with broken down constitutions and almost in a state of nudity ..... without regard to humanity or even common decency.’ 

More recently in 1979 Mullaghmore is also where Victoria's great grandson Earl Mountbatton was assassinated by the IRA when they blew up his boat, killing all on board.

[Kohola3]

6 hours ago, magdalene said:

Did dukes hang if they kill their wives?

I doubt it.  Royalty and all and his wife was a commoner.

I am surprised somebody didn't step in and pitch him out the door when he was doing his pig act at dinner.  In front of the the queen and nobody did anything.

[my3sons]

I'm done with this show.  Last night's episode -- and next week's preview -- are just too soap operish for me!

[Nolefan]

3 hours ago, Razzberry said:

Feodora is so busy planting seeds of distrust and stirring it up, but to what end?  Give me a clue or quit it.   Meanwhile Victoria is shocked and appalled that her presence every few decades in right-nextdoor Ireland isn't universally appreciated.

I've been doing a little digging.  Palmerston did indeed have an estate in Connacht, Co. Sligo, and he's not fondly remembered there according to https://www.sligoheritage.com/archirishvillage.htm

"Palmerston presided over Mullaghmore and North Sligo during the worst years of the Irish Holocaust, the great famine of the mid 19th century. His record during that period is shameful. During the summer and autumn of 1847, nine vessels, carrying over 2,000 persons left Sligo port with tenants evicted and “shovelled out” from his Sligo estates. They arrived in Canada half naked and totally destitute. The city of St. John in the Canadian province of New Brunswick had to take many of Palmerston’s evicted tenants into care and, outraged, sent a scathing letter to Palmerston expressing regret and fury that he or his agents, ‘should have exposed such a numerous and distressed portion of his tenantry to the severity and privation of a New Brunswick winter ......unprovided with the common means of support, with broken down constitutions and almost in a state of nudity ..... without regard to humanity or even common decency.’ 

More recently in 1979 Mullaghmore is also where Victoria's great grandson Earl Mountbatton was assassinated by the IRA when they blew up his boat, killing all on board.

The whole episode seemed off to me, like it is going to be revealed in a future episode that Palmerston is some cruel B.S.er  (based on the above in comparison to what he told Albert about his tenants and Palmerston discrediting the Irish gentleman encountered on Victoria and Albert’s ride as some disgruntled poacher). Palmerston has already been shown as planting the guns to frame the Chartists. I got the vibe that he “arranged” the warm Irish reception for Victoria, when in fact the Irish really hate the English and Victoria (and justly based on the way they have been treated). I think Victoria is being lead astray by Palmerston, and she will be shredding herself in a future episode as to how her gut told her Bertie was being abused, but how she ignored her gut with respect to her other children (her people) being “abused” at the hands of Palmerston and the English government. At least I hope this is where this story is going because otherwise this is Daisy Goodwin whitewashing history in regard to Lord Palmerston’s character (which she kinda did for Victoria in last season’s Irish episode) and that would be truly despicable.

7 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

I would accept Laurence Fox’s Lord Pam’s “boots by the door” invitation! 😏 Loved Lady Palmerston. She was his longtime mistress before they married (in their 50s IRL).

Once again I wanted to cut those foppish curls out of Albert’s face. He was beyond annoying during this episode.

Almost got the feeling Victoria was thinking about the invite, too. She seems very “fascinated” by Palmerston at the moment. Based on the above, I am guessing she will be regretting in the future how she discounted Albert’s gut feeling as to what was going on in Ireland and overall with Palmerston. Otherwise the whole scene where Albert took Victoria to the tenant housing and meeting the Irishman on the ride was for nothing. Otherwise, Daisy Goodwin must have some real axe to grind with the real Albert, as so far this Season he has been shown to be completely wrong about everything (and wrong in “fictional” ways that Daisy Goodwin made up for the show as if to intentionally paint the man in a really bad light). In regard to Lady Palmerston, wonder how she will be feeling when she finds out Lord Palmerston has been more interested in Sophie than he has let on (why is he so concerned about Sophie and the footman if he did not care about her?)

[AZChristian]

So the child she is pregnant with (#7) was born in 1850, and she still looks more like the babysitter than the pregnant mom of 6, and he looks like the boy next door with whom she is dallying (frequently).  Here's an actual photo of them from 1854 . . . they've got a lot aging to do in the next 5 years!

[dubbel zout]

9 hours ago, MadyGirl1987 said:

Poor Vicky, by the way, asking about a tutor for her. She had a rough time in Germany with her husbands family and the Prussian court. Maybe some formal political education would have smoothed the way...

VIcky's main problem at the Prussian court was that she was trying to turn it into the British court (with Frederick's help). It was never going to happen. The culture was too different.

8 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I liked Lady P. and her unconventional marriage! I bet more than a few people in that time and social bracket had something like that going on. Its nice that they can at least joke about it.

It was nice that both of them were on the same page. Also, there seemed to be genuine affection between them. Victoria's astonishment at the whole arrangement was pretty funny. I suppose someone who was so deeply in love with her husband had a hard time wrapping her head around a marriage where cheating was no big deal.

7 hours ago, magdalene said:

As a widow she can carry on with the dishy footman to her hearts content.

Maybe. Her son will inherit the title and the estate, and if he's not of age, some other man will control the purse strings. The dowager duchess could easily be cut off without a cent and lose access to her son. She's putting a lot on the line to dally with a mere footman.

4 hours ago, Razzberry said:

Feodora is so busy planting seeds of distrust and stirring it up, but to what end?

I think it's as simple as jealousy. A very strong case of jealousy. Not only is Victoria happy in her marriage, she lives in London (a thriving, sophisticated city), she has plenty of money, and she's the queen of England. As the show presents it, Feodora is the opposite.

[TaurusRose]

I've slept on it and...

I  scarcely pay attention when Bertie and Vicky are on the screen. I don't care about them and could they have found two more unimpressive, dull children to play the parts?  We get rid of Nancy and Charles and are saddled with Abigail (like she would fly in a royal household), the Duchess and the footman (boring and clichéd).   It's one thing to take a little poetic license with historical figures and it's entirely another to write, produce and present this dreck.  Fan fiction indeed!  I rolled my eyes the entire time this was on.  

What is all the drama between Victoria and Albert?  I think Daisy Goodwill (or whatever her name is) simply hates Albert and loves presenting him as petulant, dreary and uptight while Victoria is consistently painted as the doting mother and icon of modern womanhood with 21st-century sensibilities.  Whatever.  I want Feodora gone.  If I have to look at her broad, plain face one more week I will scream.  She is as bad as the duchess's husband who is simply an ass wipe.  The only stars here were the dove and Palmerston's wife.  Just call me totally disgruntled this week.  

Edited February 11, 2019 by taurusrose

[meira.hand]

10 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Feodora is like some kind of phantom ghost woman swooping around being all weird and creepy. What is her deal? What is her end game here? Its not like she can become queen or anything, and she still has a family elsewhere. Can she just never go back, and she will just be the eternal house guest crashing on her little sisters well upholstered coach. 

I think it's simply that she really does not want to return home to an apparently unhappy marriage. Her way to stay is make sure she becomes an indispensable consultant and companion to each of them while ensuring that they do not grow close again as then they would no need her any more. What bothers me a little is that I suspect the whole situation comes from the writers imagination to create extra drama. There is something unpleasant when you do this to non-fictional characters.

[Popples]

11 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

I would accept Laurence Fox’s Lord Pam’s “boots by the door” invitation! 😏 

 

That line forms on the right, babe! 😀

It's getting to the point where I would rather watch a show about Lord and Lady Palmerston than Victoria and Albert. I wonder what the Victorian era version of picking keys out of a bowl would be.

[magdalene]

Were Victoria and Albert really that at odds? I find them tedious to watch at this point.  And he comes across as even more prissy  and uptight than before right now. 

Reading up on Lord Palmerston astonished me.  What an amazing life and career that man had. So influential for such a long time. 

[LittleIggy]

4 hours ago, Kohola3 said:

I doubt it.  Royalty and all and his wife was a commoner.

A duke isn’t royalty unless he is also a member of the royal family.

[AllenNV]

What has happened to the Diana Rigg character and her niece, with whom gay Alfred was going to attempt to go straight? They have simply disappeared without any explanation (that I have seen).

[Nolefan]

2 hours ago, taurusrose said:

I've slept on it and...

I  scarcely pay attention when Bertie and Vicky are on the screen. I don't care about them and could they have found two more unimpressive, dull children to play the parts?  We get rid of Nancy and Charles and are saddled with Abigail (like she would fly in a royal household), the Duchess and the footman (boring and clichéd).   It's one thing to take a little poetic license with historical figures and it's entirely another to write, produce and present this dreck.  Fan fiction indeed!  I rolled my eyes the entire time this was on.  

What is all the drama between Victoria and Albert?  I think Daisy Goodwill (or whatever her name is) simply hates Albert and loves presenting him as petulant, dreary and uptight while Victoria is consistently painted as the doting mother and icon of modern womanhood with 21st-century sensibilities.  Whatever.  I want Feodora gone.  If I have to look at her broad, plain face one more week I will scream.  She is as bad as the duchess's husband who is simply an ass wipe.  The only stars here were the dove and Palmerston's wife.  Just call me totally disgruntled this week.  

Right here with you.  Agree that Daisy Goodwin hates Prince Albert and obviously this is the Season when she finally totally destroys his character by making Victoria out to be some superhero while Albert is portrayed as basically one step up from the Duke of Monmouth. Heck, I would not be surprised if Victoria and Lord Palmerston end up having a thing at this point. Daisy is always so jovial about how she got a whole nation to cheer against history with her Lord M fictional romance, but she uses the same methods she is using now — basically creating a fictional character (the real Lord M was 60 and he beat servant girls for pleasure, but hey, why let facts get in the way of her Rufus Sewell crush??) to compete with Albert and portray Albert in the worst possible light. Now we have a young,sexy Lord Palmerston (and the real life Lord Palmerston is a POS as shown above) for everyone to root for Victoria to get with. Whatever. Very disgruntled with this show as well.

[iMonrey]

This season really isn't up to snuff is it. I don't know if David Oakes simply wasn't available this season but they seem to be trying to recreate the whole Ernst and Harriet relationship with this footman and duchess, but as pointed out above, the two characters are thinly drawn and we know next to nothing about them. I have no investment in them whatsoever.

And Feodora needs to go. She's a cartoonish, mustache-twirling villain that's only there to throw chaos into the story for no practical reason I can fathom. I don't know what she thinks stirring up shit is going to get her. 

[BusyOctober]

What  I am getting from this interpretation of V& A’s life together is  that they barely tolerated each other during daylight hours.  They sniped at each other in front of staff, their kids, members of the court and who ever they invite to dinner.  Yet when they hit the sheets, all seems ok?  I guess?So kids #3 thru soon to be born #7 are apparently the results of crazy make-up sex?  Vicky and Bertie were born early enough in the honeymoon phase, but the rest of their brood appears to be born during the rocky periods of V & A many disagreements.

Albert’s floppy forelock hasn’t bugged me much, but this episode it did. Good gravy, fetch me the royal scissors already.

Can Duke Snidely Whiplash and Feodora Badanov be in some kind of horrible horse trampling accident soon?  Both of them are so tiresome. I don’t know if the actors suck the life out of the characters, or if the writer is lazy or if the director just cannot with either of these 2 as much as me.

[Kohola3]

I must be missing something because I don't like Palmerston any more now than I did the first time we saw him.  I did like his wife, though.

[Brattinella]

28 minutes ago, BusyOctober said:

Can Duke Snidely Whiplash and Feodora Badanov be in some kind of horrible horse trampling accident soon?  Both of them are so tiresome. I don’t know if the actors suck the life out of the characters, or if the writer is lazy or if the director just cannot with either of these 2 as much as me.

LOL!  Perfectly characterized!

[Nolefan]

6 hours ago, Kohola3 said:

I doubt it.  Royalty and all and his wife was a commoner.

I am surprised somebody didn't step in and pitch him out the door when he was doing his pig act at dinner.  In front of the the queen and nobody did anything.

Yeah, surprised that Victoria did not stand up and say anything in protection of Sophie. But, I guess Victoria is so out to lunch about her friends (she is the one to invite Sophie’s husband along while it seems everyone in the Palace knows what a creep he is) she probably did even notice. Seemed like a good time to throw wine in someone’s face, but I guess that is saved for Albert.

[dubbel zout]

I feel like everyone knows if they say something to the duke, it's the duchess who gets punished later on, in private.

[Kohola3]

26 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

I feel like everyone knows if they say something to the duke, it's the duchess who gets punished later on, in private.

Probably, since women were just possessions.  Still, weren't gentlemen supposed to act "gentlemenly" back then?  I think it's time for the duke to have some sort of fatal accident.

Not knowing anything about the aristocracy, I'm unclear as to how  he can be a duke if he's not royalty and he's penniless.

[dubbel zout]

25 minutes ago, Kohola3 said:

Not knowing anything about the aristocracy, I'm unclear as to how  he can be a duke if he's not royalty and he's penniless.

Simplifying things somewhat, royal dukedoms are given to their holders by the monarch (though the heir to the throne automatically inherits a few). Nonroyal dukes inherit them from their fathers as with any other title.

As for being penniless, there are any number of reasons: gambling away the family fortune, bad investments, land rich but cash poor.

[Kohola3]

6 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

Simplifying things somewhat, royal dukedoms are given to their holders by the monarch (though the heir to the throne automatically inherits a few). Nonroyal dukes inherit them from their fathers as with any other title.

Gotcha.  So it's pretty much a meaningless title given for something like services rendered? He ceratinly is an uppity little snot for someone with just a hand-me-down title.

The penniless state I can understand.  It seems like that was rampant all over Great Britain - at least it seems that way from watching Downton Abbey.

[HelenBaby]

2 hours ago, BusyOctober said:

What  I am getting from this interpretation of V& A’s life together is  that they barely tolerated each other during daylight hours.  They sniped at each other in front of staff, their kids, members of the court and who ever they invite to dinner.  Yet when they hit the sheets, all seems ok?  I guess?So kids #3 thru soon to be born #7 are apparently the results of crazy make-up sex?  Vicky and Bertie were born early enough in the honeymoon phase, but the rest of their brood appears to be born during the rocky periods of V & A many disagreements.

Albert’s floppy forelock hasn’t bugged me much, but this episode it did. Good gravy, fetch me the royal scissors already.

Can Duke Snidely Whiplash and Feodora Badanov be in some kind of horrible horse trampling accident soon?  Both of them are so tiresome. I don’t know if the actors suck the life out of the characters, or if the writer is lazy or if the director just cannot with either of these 2 as much as me.

I love everything about this post. Will you be my best friend? 😆

[Nolefan]

2 hours ago, BusyOctober said:

What  I am getting from this interpretation of V& A’s life together is  that they barely tolerated each other during daylight hours.  They sniped at each other in front of staff, their kids, members of the court and who ever they invite to dinner.  Yet when they hit the sheets, all seems ok?  I guess?So kids #3 thru soon to be born #7 are apparently the results of crazy make-up sex?  Vicky and Bertie were born early enough in the honeymoon phase, but the rest of their brood appears to be born during the rocky periods of V & A many disagreements.

I don’t see it as barely tolerating each other at all. The opposite of love is not hate, it is indifference. To me, even though V&A are constantly fighting, they are NOT indifferent about each other. In fact, they still seem very much into each other. Even when they were exchanging the messages back in forth, there still seemed very much an anticipation on each one of their faces waiting for the letter to arrive. They appear to me as this young couple (aren’t they about 27 years old now??), who deeply love each other (best friends), but are also dealing with the less romantic aspects of relationships (balancing “jobs,” raising kids, dealing with all these people in the middle of your marriage). They are both passionate individuals, and when they release that passion in bed, it has the constant consequences of a baby. The other way to release the passion is fighting. But that has emotional ramifications for their relationship, as well. I for one am impressed about how honest they are with one another. They don’t seem afraid to express the feelings they are experiencing, no matter how unpleasant. Initially, that adds fuel to the fire, but probably in the long run it is good because they are not withdrawing from each other (the indifference thing). They have also shown the ability to forgive each other for each other’s shortcomings. Maybe it is Jenna Coleman and Tom Hughes’ mad onscreen chemistry, but even in the mist of all this fighting, I can still feel V&A’s deep love.

[Bunnyette]

8 hours ago, Kohola3 said:

I doubt it.  Royalty and all and his wife was a commoner.

I am surprised somebody didn't step in and pitch him out the door when he was doing his pig act at dinner.  In front of the the queen and nobody did anything.

In real life that sort of behaviour would not have tolerated back then...and making out in public places wasn’t either.

[Nolefan]

7 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

It was nice that both of them were on the same page. Also, there seemed to be genuine affection between them. Victoria's astonishment at the whole arrangement was pretty funny. I suppose someone who was so deeply in love with her husband had a hard time wrapping her head around a marriage where cheating was no big deal.

Emily Palmerston seems like a women who does not mind sharing. Victoria, by contrast LOVES being the Queen and the center of attention. Can’t image Victoria sharing her man with anyone, especially how she freaked out she became the couple of times she thought Albert might take a mistress. I think most people would be astonished by the arrangement. For sheltered Victoria, who didn’t even realize that Harriet and Ernest were on the verge of an affair, I thought she would me more astonished.

[MegK]

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Laurence Fox must be having the time of his life playing Palmerston.  He has become my favorite part of this season.  

He's become my favorite part, too. It seems like both Victoria and Albert are sleepwalking through this season — I find myself waiting for Palmerston to show up and add some spark. The Masterpiece podcast this week is an interview with Fox about playing Palmerston, and he had some interesting things to say about this week's episode, including Lord P's marriage. (And, of course, his voice is lovely.)

I have to admit, I'm also really liking the Duke of Monmouth, even though he's doing everything short of twirling an evil mustache. At least he's interesting! The scene where he accuses Palmerston of "rogering my wife" was hilarious.

[kassygreene]

Except the real Victoria wasn't that sheltered, was brought up in the post-Regency decades (and apparently spoke Regency English to the end of her life), and she was a Hanover.  The Palmerston arrangement was certainly not unusual for their class, and I thought they were kind of sweet together.  The real Palmerston married the real Lady Cowper when they were both over fifty, and he was really supposed to be the father of that daughter (and one of the younger sons was generally believed to be the son of one of her earlier lovers -- again, not unusual).

What I hadn't realized was that "Lady Cooper" was Lady Cowper, who was one of the patronesses of Almack's (generally described as the nicest), which takes me back to Georgette Heyer, whom I should be re-reading.

[iMonrey]

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Can Duke Snidely Whiplash and Feodora Badanov be in some kind of horrible horse trampling accident soon?  Both of them are so tiresome. I don’t know if the actors suck the life out of the characters, or if the writer is lazy or if the director just cannot with either of these 2 as much as me.

LOL. I wish they would flesh these characters out a bit more if they are going to spend this much time on them. For example, did Sophie know her husband was an asshole when she married him? Was she forced into the marriage by her parents or something? It's hard to believe this guy was able to pull off "charming" long enough to fool her into accepting his proposal. Or was she simply blinded by the idea of becoming a duchess and ignored the warning signs? Because if that's the case I feel much less sorry for her.

In any event, I need a reason to care.

[CCTC]

6 minutes ago, MegK said:

It seems like both Victoria and Albert are sleepwalking through this season

They have basically been having the same fight for three seasons now.  I did like Coleman's delivery of "get out of my house" to the tutor.  She was shaking but still in control, but seemed about a second from flying at his with some sharp object.  It was a quiet but intense rage.

Regarding the Palmerston marriage, I thought Albert was much more offended by it than Victoria (which him being more prudish than her might be more true to history).  Really with Albert's own immediate family and Victoria's Hanoverian uncles and their common-law families, their arrangement should not have been a surprise. 

[MegK]

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Was she forced into the marriage by her parents or something? It's hard to believe this guy was able to pull off "charming" long enough to fool her into accepting his proposal. Or was she simply blinded by the idea of becoming a duchess and ignored the warning signs? Because if that's the case I feel much less sorry for her.

I seem to recall in one of the early episodes, Sophie and Victoria are sitting in a carriage and Sophie says something along the lines of, "My mother was always determined to see me become a duchess." So I'm guessing she didn't have much say in the choice of a husband. Which, I agree, makes it easier to feel for her than if she had chosen to marry a monster because she wanted a title.