S03.E04: Foreign Bodies

[Twopper]

On 2/3/2019 at 10:30 PM, MadyGirl1987 said:

So sad! Just when Skerrit and Francatelli we’re getting their happy ending as well! I hope we see more of Francatelli and see that at least the hotel is a success. Let him have at least that. RIP Skerrit! If they can pull of such a heartbreaking death of a supporting character, I am scared of what they will do with Albert’s death. That is going to be devastating...

Joseph and the Duchess need to stay away from each other. That will not end well for either of them.

I feel awful, because last week I was complaining about too much Skerrit, and now there is no Skerrit.  I  felt terrible for Francatelli, losing both his wife and unborn child.   I don't think I am going to be all that sad about Albert's death, because we have known from before the show started that he was going to die and also the circumstances surrounding the death.  Also her mother dies not too long after Albert.

18 hours ago, floridamom said:

They killed off Skerritt? I haven't watched the episode yet. This is total fantasy. The real Miss Skerritt didn't marry and lived a long life; she didn't die in service to the Queen. Why are they fictionalizing so much of this? I'm not too happy with the that. I would have liked to watch a historically accurate series on Queen Victoria myself. This, is too much to fake IMO.

Yep, Skerrit is dead, having shuffled off this mortal coil and is pining for the fjords.  I don't mind made up stories about non-historical people very much, but I do prefer historical people to be much like history records them.  If it serves the plot to move things a few years earlier or later I am okay with that.  (Obviously, not for really important events--I would object to having Albert die in 1888).  I think I picked that year because it was the year of Jack the Ripper, and I  am wondering to what extent those murders would be included.

13 hours ago, Calvada said:

I agree zoey1996.  I do learn from this series, because it causes me to do a bit of research, since I find myself wondering whether things really happened as portrayed.  This week I discovered that the Queen did not meet Florence Nightingale during a cholera epidemic; in reality they met after the Crimean War.  But I found out that Florence Nightingale did have a pet owl.  

Well, I made the mistake of reading about the owl and its unfortunate death.  She thought he would be safe in her attic, because there were mice in the attic that he would eat.  Maybe it was a female as she called it Athena.  She acquired it as a very young owl, and it was not taught by its parents to hunt.  It had no clue as to what to do with the mice.  I am not sure where she was going that she thought it would be better to leave it in the attic than taking it with her.  Possibly the owl was a little bigger than shown.  Also the article said the owl was known to bite people so Victoria was smart to be wary of it.   Actually, I  may be more upset over the owl than Skerrit.    Maybe Victoria will meet up with Florence again.

Edited February 5, 2019 by Twopper
to add sentence

[Nolefan]

19 hours ago, MadyGirl1987 said:

I definitely liked Palmerston better here when he is not being an obnoxious self-promoter or being a womanizing ladies man.

I was actually disappointed about the Palmerston character here. I was excited about Victoria being challenged by the rogue politician in the first episode, now Palmerston could basically be any character. Why did he even have to be with her at the hospital? To prove they are besties or something now? Love how he interacted with Feodora in the last episode.  The neutered Palmerston with Victoria is a boring disappointment.

[Nolefan]

If I am honest, I am finding Victoria’s character this season boring as well. The love of adulation arch so far is a big nothing. She seems to outsmart everyone at every turn, especially Albert. I thought the Palmerston arch would make things more interesting, but so far, even though she is decades less experienced then him, she has already put him in his place. She also has not had to deal with any real consequences from her actions. She somehow innately knows that cholera won’t affect her. She even got the chance to say goodbye to Nancy before she died. The portrayal of her as some sort of superhero just makes her character a bit boring to me.

[Moxie Cat]

19 hours ago, MJ Frog said:

Nice to see a cameo by Mary (Lucy Briers) from Pride and Prejudice as the apothecary.

Thanks for the heads up! I have to go back and watch those scenes now because I didn't catch her. I also loved her dad, Richard Briers. (Any Monarch of the Glen fans here?)

10 hours ago, Misslindsey said:

Hell, I watched Reign, so pretty much every show looks better than that one.

Reign was so historically dreadful that any historical drama looks incredible in comparison. Somehow, they managed to make the whole Bothwell/Darnley saga boring, which is pretty amazing. On this show, I do wish they'd accurately portray Vic's disinterest in her kids, though.

[Nolefan]

11 hours ago, Misslindsey said:

I will hold the unpopular opinion that I do not mind that much about historical accuracy. I have read a lot about Victoria, but I am fine with the show not being historically accurate. I almost come to expect a soapy version of a television series more than a historically accurate one. I watched and enjoyed various other period piece shows that played fast and loose with accuracy. It just does not bother me anymore. Hell, I watched Reign, so pretty much every show looks better than that one.

I do not expect anywhere near a documentary, but at some point the show is no longer about the life of Queen Victoria anymore, and I feel this show is pretty close to or past that point now. I read the fact and fiction thing PBS sends out each week and Daisy Goodwin reveals that most of the show is fiction, especially with respect to the Victoria character. What really gets me is when Ms. Goodwin states something about Victoria is fiction, but she thinks Victoria would have done this or that anyway. I’m like WHAT?

Edited February 5, 2019 by Nolefan

[freddi]

6 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

We are sexual temptresses, luring those poor innocent men to their doom.

Well, yes, I mean, starting with Eve...she was the reason for childbirth pain...

[TaurusRose]

2 hours ago, Moxie Cat said:

Reign was so historically dreadful that any historical drama looks incredible in comparison. Somehow, they managed to make the whole Bothwell/Darnley saga boring, which is pretty amazing. On this show, I do wish they'd accurately portray Vic's disinterest in her kids, though.

Yeah, Reign was pretty cringe worthy, but I loved Francis, he made the insufferable Mary tolerable. Once he died I hate watched. LOL

10 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Agreed. Albert has always come across as being a pompous know-it-all and speaks to everyone so condescendingly, it makes it hard to take his side even if he's right.

No matter how pompous Albert is I like him and never more than when he is not allowing Victoria to run over him. Furthermore, most of the people opposing him are equally pompous and condescending.

Edited February 5, 2019 by taurusrose

[andromeda331]

I was surprised at how much I actually cared when Skerrett died. I never really could get into her romance with the chef but I really did like them setting up their hotel. It was really great to see two servants moving on from the palace. 

I liked the angry letters back and forth. It was kind of funny.

I liked Dr. Snow and remember watching a documentary on him. I think it was on the history channel several years back. 

[Twopper]

3 hours ago, Moxie Cat said:

Reign was so historically dreadful that any historical drama looks incredible in comparison. Somehow, they managed to make the whole Bothwell/Darnley saga boring, which is pretty amazing. On this show, I do wish they'd accurately portray Vic's disinterest in her kids, though.

 

4 hours ago, Nolefan said:

The portrayal of her as some sort of superhero just makes her character a bit boring to me.

Well, I missed seeing "Reign" so maybe I didn't miss anything.

I think maybe it is because right before watching Victoria last night I was going thru shows that needed to be watched and erased from the DVR.  I am not sure of the name of it, but one which I saw was a program where Princes Harry and William showed pictures of their growing up and talked about their mother.  And when I see Victoria visiting the sick and so warmly embracing her children I feel as though we are being shown a Diana of the 19th century.  

[CCTC]

I was debating about dropping the series, but this episode was an improvement from the previous ones.  Maybe because it seemed to have a bit more heart and real emotion.  

I also was amused by the letters.

I almost expected Feodora to be watching from behind a curtain or door during Victoria and Albert's reconciliation scene or listening from the other side of the door.  Do you think they told the actress to watch Mrs. Danvers from Rebecca and 1980's soap villainesses?

The Dr. Snow portion was interesting.

Eye candy aside, Joseph and the Duchess - not so interesting.  They have seemed to wander in from romance novel cliches 101.

[freddi]

42 minutes ago, CCTC said:

Eye candy aside, Joseph and the Duchess - not so interesting.  They have seemed to wander in from romance novel cliches 101.

Or an episode from "Friends," where Joey fantasizes about forbidden love, specifically, the Princess and the Stableboy.  I swear that came to me as I watched them whispering in the big hall.  

[voiceover]

5 hours ago, Moxie Cat said:

(Any Monarch of the Glen fans here?)

*waves from back of the thread* Me!!

Though I wandered off after the hero ended up with the wrong woman.

As far as V&A hitting the sack, welllll...I thought the timing was one of the more believable moments in the ep.  She'd just watched someone who'd been close to her, die a horrible death.  That's one way to embrace life again -- embrace your husband.

[Kaiju Ballet]

Wow, Daisy went there. Mad respect. I kept thinking that Daisy was going to have Victoria magically cure Skerritt by offering her the job of dresser back (because this is the same universe where footmen can initiate conversation with titled ladies with "I've been meaning to thank you...."). That was a satisfying payoff to the "Skerretelli" lovefest dragging on, pulling away valuable time from the title character herself. All the actors involved were fantastic in those highly emotional scenes.

Same with Albert at Cambridge. I had a flashback to his rousing anti-slavery speech, and was getting ready to eyeroll another scene where he wins over people with his impassioned words. It was believable that his audience here would be less than enthused about being called out for their backwards ways, and told they do it better in Bonn. 

As with people here, I loved the fighting via letters, but wow, were V&A striking as a united front, entering into the hall for a court function. Also loved getting a reminder of the foreign dignitaries presenting gifts, that this would be a usual thing happening throughout her long reign. On a similarly shallow note, that silk floral duvet that she was using was absolutely gorgeous, as were the children's clothing. The show really does best when it gives us these views of what it's like to be Victoria, the Queen.

The people who did all the makeup for cholera victims, especially Skerritt's, should be commended. It really helped underscore how brave and unflinching Victoria was to deliberately expose herself to that, especially as --did Palmerston run out of the hospital ward?--I'm also sure the sounds and smells were also off-putting.

Really hoping that they don't drag Chartist seamstress woman into the role of Victoria's new bestie, but that seems to be where it's going, especially as Skerritt's facility with a needle has also been essential, not just her hairdressing ability. But I'll be disappointed if Chartist then gets stalked by New Chef and they end up having a romance.

[Nolefan]

6 hours ago, freddi said:

Or an episode from "Friends," where Joey fantasizes about forbidden love, specifically, the Princess and the Stableboy.  I swear that came to me as I watched them whispering in the big hall.  

All I can think about is this is Ms. Goodwin’s attempt at some how appeasing the Lord M/Victoria fans that have been writing the forbidden love fan fiction that Ms.Goodwin gushes over in interviews. But instead of a Queen, we have a Duchess; instead of the Prime Minister who is protecting the young Queen and due to his position cannot marry the Queen, we have a footman (who is the spitting image of a young Rufus Sewell); and we have an evil, cruel, controlling husband who does not really love the Duchess and who the Duchess was forced to marry, which is how Albert is always depicted in said fan fiction. The only thing missing is the young girl/woman, older man/sexy professor male midlife crisis fantasy trope, but I think this has been the “ick” factor the a large group of people are put off by in any Lord M/Victoria romantic relationship, so the show did not want to go  there.

[Kohola3]

5 hours ago, Kaiju Ballet said:

I'm also sure the sounds and smells were also off-putting.

Sorry to be so graphic but death from cholera is horrible - dehydration from excessive vomiting and diarrhea.  This was definitely a cleaned up version of what it was really like.

[TaurusRose]

1 hour ago, Nolefan said:

All I can think about is this is Ms. Goodwin’s attempt at some how appeasing the Lord M/Victoria fans that have been writing the forbidden love fan fiction that Ms.Goodwin gushes over in interviews. But instead of a Queen, we have a Duchess; instead of the Prime Minister who is protecting the young Queen and due to his position cannot marry the Queen, we have a footman (who is the spitting image of a young Rufus Sewell); and we have an evil, cruel, controlling husband who does not really love the Duchess and who the Duchess was forced to marry, which is how Albert is always depicted in said fan fiction. The only thing missing is the young girl/woman, older man/sexy professor male midlife crisis fantasy trope, but I think this has been the “ick” factor the a large group of people are put off by in any Lord M/Victoria romantic relationship, so the show did not want to go  there.

Whenever I see the words “fan fiction” I run away screaming and crying.

[iMonrey]

Quote

I feel awful, because last week I was complaining about too much Skerrit, and now there is no Skerrit.  I  felt terrible for Francatelli, losing both his wife and unborn child. 

I wonder if we have seen the last of Francatelli. He must feel somewhat responsible for Nancy's death because he was the one pushing for them to leave and open their own business. If they had remained at the palace she'd still be alive. 
 

Quote

 That was a satisfying payoff to the "Skerretelli" lovefest dragging on, pulling away valuable time from the title character herself. 

Unfortunately I expect to see more of the same with Abigail. 

Quote

No matter how pompous Albert is I like him and never more than when he is not allowing Victoria to run over him. Furthermore, most of the people opposing him are equally pompous and condescending.

You don't go into someone's house as an invited guest and start telling them what lousy housekeepers they are. There is such a thing called tact, and Albert is lacking it in droves. It's true that the Cambridge execs were pompous themselves but that is their establishment. You don't like the way someone keeps house, you walk away. You don't tell them they suck and need to change. Unless you're an asshole.

[andromeda331]

4 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

You don't go into someone's house as an invited guest and start telling them what lousy housekeepers they are. There is such a thing called tact, and Albert is lacking it in droves. It's true that the Cambridge execs were pompous themselves but that is their establishment. You don't like the way someone keeps house, you walk away. You don't tell them they suck and need to change. Unless you're an asshole.

True, that tactic never works. Given how proud they are and the country is of Cambridge, he's shocked that they didn't take anything he said well. The thing is if anyone had come into the schools he loved and said the same thing no doubt Albert would have had the same reaction. 

I am surprised they had Florence Nightingale appear so soon. They met later and also she ended up inspiring Victoria's third child Alice who became really interested in nursing and helping people and becoming friends with her.

[vibeology]

33 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

You don't go into someone's house as an invited guest and start telling them what lousy housekeepers they are. There is such a thing called tact, and Albert is lacking it in droves. It's true that the Cambridge execs were pompous themselves but that is their establishment. You don't like the way someone keeps house, you walk away. You don't tell them they suck and need to change. Unless you're an asshole.

This. Albert is right about so many things but he really has no idea how to convey messages in a way that makes people want to work with him. He talks at people and makes them feel dumb. For someone who has been comfortable lecturing Victoria about politics, he has not political acumen at all and it makes him act like a jerk.

And for the most part he was going up against snobs and xenophobes so you know, I don't like those people and don't agree with them, but that doesn't mean it's okay to show up someone, shit on an establishment and then ask to be put in charge.

I think I can finally make sense of some of the more fictitious parts of the story when it comes to Victoria/Albert and Bertie. I think Victoria is sensitive to bullying because she feels that she was bullied and talked down to during her childhood. She was able to relate to Dr. Snow because she knows personally what it means to be bad at public speaking and to have that mean people think you're dumb. She cares about Bertie suddenly because she knows what it's like to have a male taskmaster making you feel stupid in front of people who's approval you want thanks to Conroy. It isn't that she's personally invested in Bertie or Dr. Snow, only that she projects herself onto them.

Joseph is going to get that Duchess killed or banished to some shit cottage where she'll never see her son again. Watching it, knowing what the actual outcome would be if this was real, makes all of it miserable.

[Nolefan]

55 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

You don't go into someone's house as an invited guest and start telling them what lousy housekeepers they are. There is such a thing called tact, and Albert is lacking it in droves. It's true that the Cambridge execs were pompous themselves but that is their establishment. You don't like the way someone keeps house, you walk away. You don't tell them they suck and need to change. Unless you're an asshole.

Well, it wasn’t “someone’s house” it was an institution for higher learning. All he said was that a UNIVERSITY is a place where there should be the freedom to exchange thoughts and new ideas, such as looking at science instead of focusing solely on Theology. Maybe this is a much more modern concept then I realized, but I thought that WAS what universities were about. And, it was not Albert’s delivery they were offended by, it was his statements and his honesty about what he wanted to accomplish.  The flip side was that he could have lied like politicians do, and then once they are in office go back on their promises or take a course that the people voting for them were not aware of. I appreciated his honesty and the people voting from him know where he stood and made an informed choice.

Edited February 5, 2019 by Nolefan

[snarky snarkerson]

3 minutes ago, Nolefan said:

Well, it wasn’t “someone’s house” it was an institution for higher learning. All he said was that a UNIVERSITY is a place where there should be the freedom to exchange thoughts and new ideas, such as looking at science instead of focusing solely on Theology. Maybe this is a much more modern concept then I realized, but I thought that WAS what universities were about.

This part of the show was actually probably something close to accurate, at least timing-wise. The "university" as we know it, especially in the United States, really did come out of the German model of higher education from the 1800s. The research universities we have today are the result. Prior to that, even Harvard and Yale were in the business Cambridge was in in this episode - producing "learned" gentlemen, "educating" the next crop of people who would be essentially determining the direction of the country. 

[freddi]

1 minute ago, snarky snarkerson said:

This part of the show was actually probably something close to accurate, at least timing-wise. The "university" as we know it, especially in the United States, really did come out of the German model of higher education from the 1800s. The research universities we have today are the result. Prior to that, even Harvard and Yale were in the business Cambridge was in in this episode - producing "learned" gentlemen, "educating" the next crop of people who would be essentially determining the direction of the country. 

Absolutely correct -- being all-male, upper-class, and exclusive, the university colleges (Cambridge and Oxford colleges within the universities) were extremely clubby and not open to challenges of ideas or people.  Status quo was the desired status.  

[dubbel zout]

Albert could have said, "Cambridge is a great university. Its curriculum in the classics [or whatever] is unmatched. But let's make Cambridge greater. Let's expand the sciences..." etc., etc., etc. But no, instead he basically said, "Cambridge is a pale imitation of the clearly superior German universities, and we need to fix that. I can do that if you elect me to the [ceremonial post of] chancellor." 

All Albert had to do was soften his ideas just a bit—a spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down, after all. But no, he barreled on ahead with a glaring lack of tact.

[Nolefan]

14 minutes ago, vibeology said:

This. Albert is right about so many things but he really has no idea how to convey messages in a way that makes people want to work with him. He talks at people and makes them feel dumb. For someone who has been comfortable lecturing Victoria about politics, he has not political acumen at all and it makes him act like a jerk.

And for the most part he was going up against snobs and xenophobes so you know, I don't like those people and don't agree with them, but that doesn't mean it's okay to show up someone, shit on an establishment and then ask to be put in charge.

I think I can finally make sense of some of the more fictitious parts of the story when it comes to Victoria/Albert and Bertie. I think Victoria is sensitive to bullying because she feels that she was bullied and talked down to during her childhood. She was able to relate to Dr. Snow because she knows personally what it means to be bad at public speaking and to have that mean people think you're dumb. She cares about Bertie suddenly because she knows what it's like to have a male taskmaster making you feel stupid in front of people who's approval you want thanks to Conroy. It isn't that she's personally invested in Bertie or Dr. Snow, only that she projects herself onto them.

Joseph is going to get that Duchess killed or banished to some shit cottage where she'll never see her son again. Watching it, knowing what the actual outcome would be if this was real, makes all of it miserable.

Well, the flip side of Albert being seen as a bully is Victoria’s coddling of a spoilt brat. Bertie throws things when he gets upset (throwing his crown at the former King of the French), beats his sister over the head with a stick, and swears at his father in front of a bunch of guests at the dinner table. Is Albert a little over enthusiastic in his teaching? Yes, and he took Victoria’s reprimands to heart and was more gentle with Bertie in the archery scene. But Victoria has been shown as waaay too permissive with Bertie, which has turned him into an out of control brat. Victoria and Albert would both be better served regarding Bertie if they could find some middle ground.

[Nolefan]

19 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

Albert could have said, "Cambridge is a great university. Its curriculum in the classics [or whatever] is unmatched. But let's make Cambridge greater. Let's expand the sciences..." etc., etc., etc. But no, instead he basically said, "Cambridge is a pale imitation of the clearly superior German universities, and we need to fix that. I can do that if you elect me to the [ceremonial post of] chancellor." 

All Albert had to do was soften his ideas just a bit—a spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down, after all. But no, he barreled on ahead with a glaring lack of tact.

Well, I personally don’t think that would have made any difference because the problem, as shown, was that a certain group of people did not want any change at all. But I guess a larger group were not offended and were willing to give it a shot (so maybe most people were not as offended by Albert’s delivery of his speech as a lot of people on this message board seem to be).

Edited February 5, 2019 by Nolefan

[b2H]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

I wonder if we have seen the last of Francatelli. He must feel somewhat responsible for Nancy's death because he was the one pushing for them to leave and open their own business. If they had remained at the palace she'd still be alive. 

Not so sure about this.  If anything, she'd taken a tonic given her by the apothecary because she was pregnant.  That, to me, is more the reason than just that they'd left the palace.

[TaurusRose]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

You don't go into someone's house as an invited guest and start telling them what lousy housekeepers they are. There is such a thing called tact, and Albert is lacking it in droves. It's true that the Cambridge execs were pompous themselves but that is their establishment. You don't like the way someone keeps house, you walk away. You don't tell them they suck and need to change. Unless you're an asshole.

That’s all well and good. I don’t care and I don’t think Albert is or was “an asshole.”  I still like him.  You are (as always) entitled to disagree. And for the record, I have plenty of tact, but I can live vicariously through Albert. 😂 BTW, I agree about Abigail, sadly.

Edited February 5, 2019 by taurusrose

[chitowngirl]

1 hour ago, vibeology said:

Joseph is going to get that Duchess killed or banished to some shit cottage where she'll never see her son again. Watching it, knowing what the actual outcome would be if this was real, makes all of it miserable.

I would think that Ladies-in-Waiting, while in service to the Queen, can’t just be summoned home because their husbands are in a snit. This is where Diana Riggs’ character would have come in handy as a confidant. 

[freddi]

7 minutes ago, chitowngirl said:

I would think that Ladies-in-Waiting, while in service to the Queen, can’t just be summoned home because their husbands are in a snit. This is where Diana Riggs’ character would have come in handy as a confidant. 

Is Diana Riggs just gone from the series?  I'm guessing yes, but had not read anything.  She was wonderful last season.  (And wonderful in everything!)  

[Ohmo]

1 hour ago, dubbel zout said:

Albert could have said, "Cambridge is a great university. Its curriculum in the classics [or whatever] is unmatched. But let's make Cambridge greater. Let's expand the sciences..." etc., etc., etc. But no, instead he basically said, "Cambridge is a pale imitation of the clearly superior German universities, and we need to fix that. I can do that if you elect me to the [ceremonial post of] chancellor." 

All Albert had to do was soften his ideas just a bit—a spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down, after all. But no, he barreled on ahead with a glaring lack of tact.

Going under spoiler tags just to be safe.

Spoiler

 

Although we've still got a bit of time historically, Albert's reaction makes sense to me because he's German.  The middle to the end of the 19th century saw the unification of the German states and the rise of Otto von Bismarck, who believed in militarism and a strong sense of German identity and German ability to influence Europe.  Anyone who only associates that with Hitler is a few decades too late.  Bismarck was into German military superiority and the sense of German accomplishments and contributions to Europe.  Hitler twisted the concept of strong German identity to fit his own twisted and horrific mind.

Otto von Bismarck

 

[dubbel zout]

54 minutes ago, chitowngirl said:

I would think that Ladies-in-Waiting, while in service to the Queen, can’t just be summoned home because their husbands are in a snit. This is where Diana Riggs’ character would have come in handy as a confidant. 

Joseph blew it by not using the queen as an excuse the first time told the duke the duchess wasn't able to make it. 

@Ohmo, I have no problem with what Albert said, it's how he said it, in a needlessly antagonistic manner.

Edited February 5, 2019 by dubbel zout
articles are nice

[Nolefan]

3 hours ago, vibeology said:

She was able to relate to Dr. Snow because she knows personally what it means to be bad at public speaking and to have that mean people think you're dumb.

Actually, I thought the parallels in the show were between Dr. Snow and Albert. Both were very scientific, reasoned based thinkers who were viewed by outsiders as “eccentric” by the English establishment because of their “odd” reliance on science and introverted personalities. Even at first Victoria discounted Dr. Snow after he stuttered in front of her. It wasn’t until Florence Nightingale told Victoria that Dr. Snow was the only doctor that seemed to be interested in fixing the problem that Victoria decided to give him another shot. I actually think her experience with Albert made her realize that “scientific” type personalities may be misunderstood, especially based on Victoria in the past poo pooing Albert’s interest and being insecure and intimidated around smart people (the whole Ada Lovelace thing) only to find out these scientific types can be good people and have a lot to offer (and that she actually enjoys the stuff, too!). Mr. Snow was not being “bullied” by anyone, just ignored by the British elite, including Victoria at first.

[seacliffsal]

On 2/4/2019 at 5:33 AM, nora1992 said:

Perfect summary for this entire season!  If you’re going to rewrite history, then bring back Lord M! 

And Dash!

[seacliffsal]

What bothered me most about Albert was how he was about to turn down the Chancellory because some people voted against him.  I have just not liked his portrayal in this series as it feels like he wants to be King and is easily offended when others don't automatically agree with him on every issue.

[Nolefan]

36 minutes ago, seacliffsal said:

What bothered me most about Albert was how he was about to turn down the Chancellory because some people voted against him.  I have just not liked his portrayal in this series as it feels like he wants to be King and is easily offended when others don't automatically agree with him on every issue.

He didn’t want the post because he felt like people didn’t want him, or personally disliked him, not because he was offended that they disagreed with his ideas. He was sad about it, not angry about it. Heck, there were people running through the campus with an effigy of him — that would be some scary and humiliating stuff to me. Seems to me he just wants to be useful, not King, and he seemed like he didn’t want to be the source of division and personal ridicule.

[TaurusRose]

51 minutes ago, seacliffsal said:

What bothered me most about Albert was how he was about to turn down the Chancellory because some people voted against him.  I have just not liked his portrayal in this series as it feels like he wants to be King and is easily offended when others don't automatically agree with him on every issue.

I have never gotten the impression that Albert wants to be king, only that he wants to find his own work and be given simple respect for his personhood and contributions.  Basically what everyone wants; well, most of us anyway.  He has been living in England for how long at this point?  Married to the queen and given her beautiful children to succeed her and still, the elites turn their noses up at him and omit no opportunity to sneer and point out his otherness.

Edited February 6, 2019 by taurusrose

[Nolefan]

41 minutes ago, taurusrose said:

I have never gotten the impression that Albert wants to be king, only that he wants to find his own work and be given simple respect for his personhood and contributions.  Basically what everyone wants; well, most of us anyway.  He has been living in England for how long at this point?  Married to the queen and given her beautiful children to succeed her and still, the elites turn their noses up at him and omit no opportunity to sneer and point out his otherness.

 

Totally agree!! Also, what I find interesting is that it seems that while a lot a people (Lord M, Sir Robert, Duke of Wellington, etc.) initially just disliked him, once they came to really know him personally, not only liked him but became admires of him. All these people had preconceived ideas of Albert as some money grabbing, power hungry German, but once that got to know him as a person, grew to have great respect for the man. And the show seems to indicate that despite all the vitriol spewed at him, he still went out of his way to build relationships with these people (the prime example being Sir Robert). The irony is that Victoria was the one that was the grudge holder, but it seems she has matured since S1 in this regard when she caused a Constitutional Crisis because she disliked Sir Robert.

Edited February 6, 2019 by Nolefan

[dubbel zout]

1 hour ago, taurusrose said:

Married to the queen and given her beautiful children to succeed her and still, the elites turn their noses up at him and omit no opportunity to sneer and point out his otherness.

Eh, anyone who married the queen would be sneered at, foreign prince or English aristocrat. That is a no-win situation, really, and for that I do have genuine sympathy for Albert. (And anyone who marries into a royal family. It's a tough row to hoe.)

[One4Sorrow2TooBad]

Every time I see Mr. Francatelli, he reminds me of Luke Wilson a bit. 

[ItCouldBeWorse]

"Perhaps you could leave Dr. Snow and I to talk alone."

Even in an upper-crust British accent, the poor grammar is still painful to the ears.

 

On 2/4/2019 at 4:20 PM, dubbel zout said:

On 2/4/2019 at 3:49 PM, LittleIggy said:

women were supposed to suffer during childbirth

We are sexual temptresses, luring those poor innocent men to their doom.

 

On 2/4/2019 at 10:30 PM, freddi said:

Well, yes, I mean, starting with Eve...she was the reason for childbirth pain...

It comes from the curse of Eve in the Bible: “I will surely multiply your pain in childbearing; in pain you shall bring forth children."

[Ilovepie]

On 2/4/2019 at 4:24 PM, Nolefan said:

She seems to outsmart everyone at every turn, especially Albert.

This is my biggest problem this season. First it was the Chartists. This week: Victoria cures Cholera! Every week it seems an outsider is trotted in that no one but Victoria believes and of course they turn out to be right...

I guess I am a party of one over here who didn’t shed a tear over Skerritt. I really don’t like these side stories. I can’t believe Victoria would have rushed to her side, but since someone said upthread that the real Skerritt lived to a ripe old age, I guess, sure, why not? I keep thinking I’m going to dump this show but for some reason I can’t quit it. Maybe because I do like Victoria and Albert. I just wish the show would be more historically accurate and spend less time on other people....

[NeenerNeener]

On 2/4/2019 at 9:53 AM, Misslindsey said:

Hell, I watched Reign, so pretty much every show looks better than that one.

Amen.

[Ohmo]

On 2/5/2019 at 8:23 PM, taurusrose said:

I have never gotten the impression that Albert wants to be king,

Agreed.  I have also never gotten the impression that Albert really wants to be King of England.  That said, I think he's struggling with being married to the Queen, if that makes sense---on top of living in a foreign land.  I don't think he wishes to rule England.  He's just a fish out of water.  He's a man, and he's a noble.  Under typical social dynamics for this time period, he'd have a certain amount of status.  At home in Germany, people would likely listen attentively and even head his advice.  However, he's married to a monarch, so Victoria has the status above him AND he's living in a foreign nation.  He's even lost some of the status that he might have if Victoria had ruled Germany.  In England, Albert is both an outsider and below the monarch in status.  That's a double blow during a time period where status and class meant everything.  We're seeing it with the Duchess and her husband.  He's a dick, but the reality was, that society gave him control at the time.  Albert was in a position that almost no man was in at that time in history.

[Omeletsmom]

On 2/4/2019 at 6:24 PM, Nolefan said:

If I am honest, I am finding Victoria’s character this season boring as well. The love of adulation arch so far is a big nothing. She seems to outsmart everyone at every turn, especially Albert. I thought the Palmerston arch would make things more interesting, but so far, even though she is decades less experienced then him, she has already put him in his place. She also has not had to deal with any real consequences from her actions. She somehow innately knows that cholera won’t affect her. She even got the chance to say goodbye to Nancy before she died. The portrayal of her as some sort of superhero just makes her character a bit boring to me.

I can't agree more.  She has gotten very MarySue-ish this season.  

I have to say, though, I am glad to see Victoria and Albert fighting.  Theirs was a very tempestuous relationship; I find the fighting to be the most historically accurate thing this season!

[Nire]

Personally I'm fine with some historical inaccuracies but not changing major events in real people's lives.  For instance Skerrit dying.  I wasn't interested in her plot but still I feel like killing her off took too many liberties with her real life.  I wonder if since Abigail wouldn't be remotely qualified they will have her working under Skerrit's name to get around things?  

I would have liked to see Victoria not so sure she wouldn't catch Cholera.  Even Dr. Snow wasn't positive about the cause when she visited the hospital.  Also I am amazed that we had a whole episode about Cholera where not a single person was shown throwing up.  I felt like with Skerrit it seemed as if they were trying to claim nobody knew what was wrong when I feel like it would have been obvious.  

[tennisgurl]

I feel so bad complaining about spending so much time with the downstairs people now! I liked Mrs. Skerritt, and while i was fine with her not being on the show, I just thought she would go off and have a nice life, and maybe pop up from time to time with kids and her new family business, not dying right away! 

It really was fascinating and sad seeing how little was known about how illnesses were spread, and how to stop them, and quite a bit of that was just people not wanting to really explore anything new.

[Roseanna]

On ‎2‎/‎5‎/‎2019 at 2:24 AM, Nolefan said:

If I am honest, I am finding Victoria’s character this season boring as well. The love of adulation arch so far is a big nothing. She seems to outsmart everyone at every turn, especially Albert. I thought the Palmerston arch would make things more interesting, but so far, even though she is decades less experienced then him, she has already put him in his place. She also has not had to deal with any real consequences from her actions. She somehow innately knows that cholera won’t affect her. She even got the chance to say goodbye to Nancy before she died. The portrayal of her as some sort of superhero just makes her character a bit boring to me.

On ‎2‎/‎9‎/‎2019 at 6:59 PM, Ilovepie said:

This is my biggest problem this season. First it was the Chartists. This week: Victoria cures Cholera! Every week it seems an outsider is trotted in that no one but Victoria believes and of course they turn out to be right.

I agree. Victoria is idealized far too much.  

If Albert who had a scientifical mind had met the doctor and realized that he was making a medical invention, that would be more likely. 

Spoiler

In this show, it's a wonder Victoria didn't instantly realize that Florence Nightingale could renew nursing  - how many lives in Crimea would have saved!

[Roseanna]

On ‎2‎/‎4‎/‎2019 at 4:53 PM, Misslindsey said:

I will hold the unpopular opinion that I do not mind that much about historical accuracy. I have read a lot about Victoria, but I am fine with the show not being historically accurate. I almost come to expect a soapy version of a television series more than a historically accurate one. I watched and enjoyed various other period piece shows that played fast and loose with accuracy. It just does not bother me anymore. Hell, I watched Reign, so pretty much every show looks better than that one.

On ‎2‎/‎4‎/‎2019 at 9:44 PM, Ohmo said:

Thumbs up from me.  As long as it's been made clear that it's not supposed to be a documentary (and Daisy has been clear on this point), then I don't see the issue.  I have a background in education, and that side of me sees an opportunity.  Whether you are in school or not, works like Victoria, The Crown, and Downton Abbey are ways to get people interested in history.  I love history, but some people don't.  When series like Victoria drop and people watch them, people start Googling...and learning.  What really happened, how much creativity was taken, etc.  That's engagement, and I don't ever see that as a bad thing.

I prefer historical accuracy - not necessarily in details or even in plots but in characters and values. People irl were in many ways different then (f.ex. how they treated their children and servants). The characters shouldn't be made too modern in order to please the audience.

I am not so sure that if people love a novel, or movie or show, they would be able to check the facts - even if they search for more information, they don't often believe anything that is the opposite to their  cherished fiction.   

However, the greatest fault in this show is the screenplay that's naive. Victoria is simply too good unlike Elizabeth in The Crown or Lady Mary in Downton Abbey. And what about such a unlikely plot that after firing her governess Victoria would fall in the same trick of her sister - and that after years of happy marriage?  

[kwnyc]

Quote

 I have no problem with what Albert said, it's how he said it, in a needlessly antagonistic manner.

Poor Albert (not). After all these years in England, he STILL doesn't realize that people aren't just waiting for him to drop pearls of wisdom on them and introduce them to modern new ways. :-)

And his constant nagging at Victoria because she "needs" the love of her people is so much more complex than that: she gets things done, because she has learned from her various PMs that it's much easier to get things done when the people support you.

She's enough of a flawed personality to be interesting, but she's got an intuitive grasp (as she matures) on how to appear to her people.

[NYGirl]

I've been binge watching the last few days and I have to say I was crying like a baby when Skerritt died!  I too wasn't crazy about the downstairs crews (especially after Downton Abbey) but I grew to like them and I rooted for Skerritt and Franconelli to live happily ever after.  

I do like the history aspect of it but I'm ok with Daisy wandering off a little bit in the timeline.  I do want Ernest and Harriet back.  So nobody knows where Wilhomena and the Duchess have gone?  No explanation sucks