S08.E04: Episode 4

[Rap541]

6 hours ago, bourbon said:

I generally ship characters on any given show, but I prefer Phyllis not get a romance storyline. It's nice to see an older woman be happy and fulfilled with her friendships and her career. 

I just dislike the asshole sergeant character. Phyllis finding a nice man (or woman) is fine but I think the character of the sergeant was just created as too dislikable to begin with. 

[StatisticalOutlier]

On 4/22/2019 at 9:48 AM, debraran said:

I agree the nuns should care about both baby and mom but women couldn’t do much back then on their own.  My doc in the states talked of how a patient in the 60’s wanted a hysterectomy after 6 kids and prolapsed uterus . Husband said no unless she had cancer. She kicked him to the couch. He said she was emotionally and physically exhausted and eventually got something done. Things changed a lot in the following years.  

And in some ways they haven't changed much at all.  There are Christian healthcare sharing ministries that are an alternative to health insurance, and in one of the policies, I found a provision that in order to get a hysterectomy, a woman has to get a second opinion from a doctor approved by the Christian healthcare sharing ministry.

What gets me is that in the case of uterine fibroids, there are lots of women who have had to fight to keep their uterus in the face of doctors who just say, "Yank it all out."

Being a woman still ain't easy.

.

19 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

Yes! I love this idea. Let's see them have an actual real argument with voices raised. 

Which in Dr. Turner's case means a normal conversation level.  It kind of drives me crazy how soft he talks.  Speak up, man!  You can be kind and audible at the same time.

.

6 minutes ago, Rap541 said:

I just dislike the asshole sergeant character. Phyllis finding a nice man (or woman) is fine but I think the character of the sergeant was just created as too dislikable to begin with. 

I don't like him either, and I can't remember if there was a specific incident.  It doesn't rise to asshole status for me (although the mustache does some nudging in that direction), but I'm not a fan of that proposed coupling.  Maybe I'm just jealous because I want to be Phyllis's best friend.

[doodlebug]

41 minutes ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

I don't like him either, and I can't remember if there was a specific incident.  It doesn't rise to asshole status for me (although the mustache does some nudging in that direction), but I'm not a fan of that proposed coupling.  Maybe I'm just jealous because I want to be Phyllis's best friend.

I'd like to see Phyllis have a circle of friends her own age, men and women, and see her having a happy, fulfilling personal life like many women of a certain age who haven't married do (myself included).  She doesn't need a love interest so much as she needs a social life other than the Boy Scouts.  Although, I love her with the scouts and don't want to lose them either.

[libgirl2]

As a Doctor Who fan, I loved Sister Monica Joan being a fan. She was watching "The Aztecs"

I guess I'm in the minority as I like Phyllis and Sgt. Woolf. I think there is more to him that we have yet to see. 

The story of the mother and daughter worked out as I knew it would, but I still teared up. 

The abortion story line was rough. When she was talking to Dr. Turner and saying how she has no say in this, it really hit close to home. It made me so sad. She might not have been in a bad circumstance family wise but she had no choice. She tried to prevent and wasn't just being careless. 

Edited April 23, 2019 by libgirl2

[Tosia]

On 4/22/2019 at 8:48 AM, debraran said:

I agree the nuns should care about both baby and mom but women couldn’t do much back then on their own.  My doc in the states talked of how a patient in the 60’s wanted a hysterectomy after 6 kids and prolapsed uterus . Husband said no unless she had cancer. She kicked him to the couch. He said she was emotionally and physically exhausted and eventually got something done. Things changed a lot in the following years.   

Hopefully more will be discussed on both ends as time goes on 

Remember birth control like the pill was not available widely until late 60's. My mom had several miscarriages --i think cuz she smoked, in the early 60's. She almost died once.   I have 3 siblings.  Birth control would have helped avoid these miscarriages i believe. 

My aunt had several miscarriages and seven kids.  She asked her priest if she could use birth control--the pill. He said no. She was exhausted,  (5 boys, 2 girls), and my uncle ran around on her.  

Abortion is necessary sometimes because birth control  is not 100% effective.  

Back alley abortions were desperate responses to a horrible situation to being a child into.  

[txhorns79]

1 hour ago, doodlebug said:

I'd like to see Phyllis have a circle of friends her own age, men and women, and see her having a happy, fulfilling personal life like many women of a certain age who haven't married do (myself included).  She doesn't need a love interest so much as she needs a social life other than the Boy Scouts.  Although, I love her with the scouts and don't want to lose them either.

I'd imagine having a regular social life with people her own age is hard for someone as transient as Phyllis.  I don't know if they've really discussed it on the show, but I do wonder what happens to her when she reaches retirement age.  I'm sure she has savings, but I'd think it would be hard for someone who has mostly spent her life living in group settings to adjust.     

[libgirl2]

3 minutes ago, Tosia said:

Remember birth control like the pill was not available widely until late 60's. My mom had several miscarriages --i think cuz she smoked, in the early 60's. She almost died once.   I have 3 siblings.  Birth control would have helped avoid these miscarriages i believe. 

My aunt had several miscarriages and seven kids.  She asked her priest if she could use birth control--the pill. He said no. She was exhausted,  (5 boys, 2 girls), and my uncle ran around on her.  

Abortion is necessary sometimes because birth control  is not 100% effective.  

Back alley abortions were desperate responses to a horrible situation to being a child into.  

And Sr. Monica Joan was correct that women will continue to find them especially if there is not a safe legal form. 

[tinderbox]

On ‎2‎/‎4‎/‎2019 at 10:12 AM, anna0852 said:

Absolutely. I see Trixie and Val being pro but Lucille firmly against. 

Did anybody else, even for a moment, think Trixie gave the pregnant woman the name of the person who could give her an abortion?  I did.  In fact, I went back to the scene where Trixie and the woman were speaking privately and the woman was explaining the reasons why she just couldn't manage another child.   At the end of the scene, Trixie had the weirdest most conflicted look on her face.   Hmmm.....

[proserpina65]

2 hours ago, libgirl2 said:

As a Doctor Who fan, I loved Sister Monica Joan being a fan. She was watching "The Aztecs"

I recognized it right away from the brief glimpse of the villainous priest.

[libgirl2]

1 hour ago, tinderbox said:

Did anybody else, even for a moment, think Trixie gave the pregnant woman the name of the person who could give her an abortion?  I did.  In fact, I went back to the scene where Trixie and the woman were speaking privately and the woman was explaining the reasons why she just couldn't manage another child.   At the end of the scene, Trixie had the weirdest most conflicted look on her face.   Hmmm.....

I didn't catch that but I wasn't looking for it. I hope not. 

[caitmcg]

2 hours ago, tinderbox said:

Did anybody else, even for a moment, think Trixie gave the pregnant woman the name of the person who could give her an abortion?  I did.  In fact, I went back to the scene where Trixie and the woman were speaking privately and the woman was explaining the reasons why she just couldn't manage another child.   At the end of the scene, Trixie had the weirdest most conflicted look on her face.   Hmmm.....

Nope, not for a moment. On one hand, I can certainly imagine Trixie being sympathetic to the woman's fears given her own difficult childhood and lasting trauma as a result of caring for a father suffering from shell shock; but on the other, I do not believe that Trixie, this far into her nursing career caring for women, would refer a pregnant woman to a non-medical professional for a surgical abortion regardless of her personal feelings about the woman's circumstances.

I know a woman my parents' age who has let it be known in recent years that she had an abortion when she was quite young and single, pre-Roe v. Wade in the US, for which she went on her own to Mexico. Everything turned out fine medically and she has no regrets, but was terrified. (She was also terrified of being poor, young, and pregnant on her own, away even from family at a time when pregnancy, whether she kept the child or not, would most likely have cost her her employment.)

[debraran]

17 minutes ago, caitmcg said:

Nope, not for a moment. On one hand, I can certainly imagine Trixie being sympathetic to the woman's fears given her own difficult childhood and lasting trauma as a result of caring for a father suffering from shell shock; but on the other, I do not believe that Trixie, this faIt'r into her nursing career caring for women, would refer a pregnant woman to a non-medical professional for a surgical abortion regardless of her personal feelings about the woman's circumstances.

I know a woman my parents' age who has let it be known in recent years that she had an abortion when she was quite young and single, pre-Roe v. Wade in the US, for which she went on her own to Mexico. Everything turned out fine medically and she has no regrets, but was terrified. (She was also terrified of being poor, young, and pregnant on her own, away even from family at a time when pregnancy, whether she kept the child or not, would most likely have cost her her employment.)

It's usually an anguished decision, some do it in haste, some think it through, some are conflicted later, some aren't.  You really can't pigeon hole anyone and I hope they show more dimensions if brought up again.

I don't think Trixie said anything since she knows how dangerous it is and how other women had bad infections. "Maybe" if there was a safe doctor who thought he was helping but even then, I can't see it. I think she felt guilty because she knew she might.

[eel21788]

On ‎4‎/‎22‎/‎2019 at 4:48 AM, JudyObscure said:

I also think it's unrealistic on this show that only the abortionist is ever blamed, and not a word is said about the part the woman played in seeking her out.  I was shocked that this woman went to the abortionist when her husband had so strongly indicated that he was against it. It was his baby, too.  Plus, it's part of any young mother's responsibility to the children she already has, to not take huge chances with her own life. Dr. Turner had made it clear to her how dangerous it was. 

I was surprised nobody, including the husband, suggested a vasectomy to prevent further future pregnancies.

[MMEButterfly]

5 hours ago, Tosia said:

Remember birth control like the pill was not available widely until late 60's. My mom had several miscarriages --i think cuz she smoked, in the early 60's. She almost died once.   I have 3 siblings.  Birth control would have helped avoid these miscarriages i believe. 

My aunt had several miscarriages and seven kids.  She asked her priest if she could use birth control--the pill. He said no. She was exhausted,  (5 boys, 2 girls), and my uncle ran around on her.  

Abortion is necessary sometimes because birth control  is not 100% effective. 

Back alley abortions were desperate responses to a horrible situation to being a child into.  

I was offered the pill months before my marriage in August, 1962. I didn't go with it because I kind of wanted to get pregnant and quit working. I got pregnant and managed to quit working only 4 months. My husband was in grad school, and somebody had to work. 

[kathe5133]

I know these folks aren't catholics, but in the catholic religion anything that's done to prevent pregnancy (vasectomy, tubal ligation, the pill, condoms, etc) are considered almost as bad as abortion.  The only thing acceptable is the rythym method (I have a 48 year old sister who is living proof of how well that works). I'm not sure if any of those options would even be considered options in 1964.

[theatremouse]

On 4/21/2019 at 6:45 PM, JustDucky said:

Funny story: my phone's ring tone is the Doctor Who theme.  So when Sister MJ was watching TV, I thought I was getting a phone call!

I had the exact same experience. I got laughed at.

On 4/22/2019 at 12:28 PM, doodlebug said:

The only thing he could've done would be to refer her to a mental health professional before flatly telling her that her unhappiness at being pregnant was not reason enough to terminate.  She told him about her family history of mental illness which was seemingly exacerbated by repeated childbearing. 

When they were having that conversation, I thought the episode was headed in the direction of her killing herself, so while I was surprised where it went, I wasn't surprised it ended with her dead.

[3 is enough]

I wondered why Dr Turner, after telling the woman that he couldn't help her get an abortion, didn't tell her that he could help her get her tubes tied after the baby was born.  Maybe that wasn't an option in 1964?  Knowing that the unplanned baby would be her last may have dissuaded her from seeking out the back alley abortionist.

My mother, a devout Catholic, went to the priest in 1969 after the birth of her 5th child.  She wanted to use birth control.  He told her to follow her conscience, and she went on the pill.  This was in Quebec, where people were leaving the Church in droves, and I guess they were more progressive. 

[MissLucas]

Back in season 2 Nora Harding (the show's first victim of a botched abortion) asked Doctor Turner if she could have her tubes tied and he said it was only possible in case of a medical necessity. Time has passed in show but AFAIK tube ligation was tightly monitored/controlled for a long time and not a procedure you could simply ask for. Not sure how it was handled in the UK during the 60's but in some countries women were questioned by a panel of medical persons - not unlike a trial - before the panel (of course mostly men) would decide.

In fact I read only recently an article by a young woman who wanted it done in the US and the amount of times she was told 'You will change your mind!' and treated as if she had lost her mind was staggering.

But even if Doctor Turner could have offered tube ligation without inquisition the problem here was one of mental health. The woman was scared out of her wits by the prospect of having another child. It wasn't just an obstetric problem - the system or society failed her also on the front of mental health.

[debraran]

Even today nothing is perfect or without any side effects but things have come a long way since the 60's. Who knows what the next decade will bring. I know my mom said there was a ton of ignorance and old wives tales back then, ways to prevent or get rid of a pregnancy that usually didn't work. Many women were ashamed to even ask about it and husbands usually refused to go along with it especially if it was something he had to do or wear.

Some women flourished with large families and some didn't. I knew some with 12 kids, some with 2 or 3 (we were 4) but I also saw some families with rose colored glasses back then. I learned as an adult and teen, some parents broke under the stress, some drank a lot, or were abusive, one woman my mom knew just had a breakdown and hardly left her home. Some women had horrible husbands but were stuck not being able to work or make much money. Sure some things were simpler but not always.

Edited April 24, 2019 by debraran

[JudyObscure]

16 hours ago, doodlebug said:

I'd like to see Phyllis have a circle of friends her own age, men and women, and see her having a happy, fulfilling personal life like many women of a certain age who haven't married do (myself included). 

I would love that, too.  I've always disliked the way the younger group sort of snicker at her behind her back. 

The latest example was Phyllis saying what was best was daily exercise like her Royal Air Force exercises, and they all laughed.  She was right!  I used to do those and it's a good complete work-out that even includes a little cardio before the word "aerobics" was coined.  That once a week toe touching, hula hoop stuff that Trixie leads at her "Keep Fit," sessions looks like fun but would do absolutely nothing for, "slimming your flanks," as we know now that spot reducing doesn't work and once a week is worse than nothing at all because it just over stretches muscles that will be tightened up again next week. 

Trixie means well and she's helping to encourage a good attitude about exercise.  I also know it helps her mentally with her alcohol problem and I get a kick out of seeing them "working-out," in their full make-up and elaborate hairdos.  I just don't think it justifies sneering at Phyllis.

[MissLucas]

I actually checked out those exercises after Phyllis had mentioned them but had a hard time getting a good, concise summary that wouldn't leave my head spinning with all the charts and numbers. I know it's supposed to be pretty easy but it triggered two of my deepest school-related traumas: math and PE! (I hate supposedly easy charts and I'm a total clutz).

Luckily I've found another workout routine that works but whenever those exercises are mentioned I wonder if I should not give them another try.😁

[OnceSane]

19 hours ago, tinderbox said:

Did anybody else, even for a moment, think Trixie gave the pregnant woman the name of the person who could give her an abortion?

Nope.  Not even for a second.

[doodlebug]

16 hours ago, kathe5133 said:

I know these folks aren't catholics, but in the catholic religion anything that's done to prevent pregnancy (vasectomy, tubal ligation, the pill, condoms, etc) are considered almost as bad as abortion.  The only thing acceptable is the rythym method (I have a 48 year old sister who is living proof of how well that works). I'm not sure if any of those options would even be considered options in 1964.

Actually, they're not.  The nuns in the show are Church of England/Anglican nuns.  The Church of England doesn't object to contraception which is why we find it discussed so often on the show.  It seems like the clinic that they run is strictly for maternity; we don't see the midwives doing routine gyn care or Dr Turner handling complicated gyn cases which I think is the main reason we don't see this particular group of practitioners handing out contraceptives.

Back in the 60's, at least in the US, it was not possible for a woman to get a tubal ligation unless her husband consented to it, too.  It also required a large incision and a fairly long recovery time as laparoscopy was not around back then.  It was a much bigger undertaking than it is these days.  Even when done postpartum, the incision was much, much bigger than we'd make today.  We haven't seen that the maternity hospital has anesthesia services available other than the self-administered gas and it doesn't appear that they do cesareans there, either; so it would be virtually impossible for Dr Turner to perform tubal ligations there immediately after delivery. 

Vasectomies for contraception really didn't take hold until after WWII when they began to be promoted by population experts as a way to control growth in underdeveloped nations.  It really didn't catch on in the US or Britain until the 70's or so as it was looked upon as mainly to be used in situations where people didn't have access to reversible methods like the pill, the diaphragm or condoms.  Probably the most well-known use of vasectomy to try to stem population growth was in India.  From the 1950's to the 1970's, the Indian government ran a very successful program that compensated Indian men for having the procedure.  As I recall, one of the most popular programs compensated men in rural India with transistor radios for undergoing a vasectomy in a public clinic.

I agree that Trixie would never, ever recommend a woman use an abortionist unless she herself knew who was performing the procedure and that they had the skill and the facilities to do it safely.  She has been shown to be a very skilled and reliable practitioner and she would never refer one of her patients to someone that she couldn't trust.

Edited April 24, 2019 by doodlebug

[Sarah 103]

On 4/23/2019 at 1:09 PM, doodlebug said:

I'd like to see Phyllis have a circle of friends her own age, men and women, and see her having a happy, fulfilling personal life like many women of a certain age who haven't married do (myself included).  She doesn't need a love interest so much as she needs a social life other than the Boy Scouts.  Although, I love her with the scouts and don't want to lose them either.

I don't think it has to be either/or. She can have a circle of friends her own age, including love interests. She can date without getting married. She could still be involved with the Scouts too.  

[Badger]

Don't forget her Spanish lessons.  

[debraran]

Since we are historically accurate but not going strictly by book anymore with characters, do you think they will have a return in the future, a conversation on how his wife died or was this just a one time plot?

[MissLucas]

I still think he run off with Mrs Patmore! (Sorry Phyllis)

[Kohola3]

3 hours ago, debraran said:

Since we are historically accurate but not going strictly by book anymore with characters, do you think they will have a return in the future, a conversation on how his wife died or was this just a one time plot?

I would really love that.  I liked the characters together and it was nice to see Phyllis in a different light.

[Kenzie]

On 4/23/2019 at 5:38 PM, kathe5133 said:

I know these folks aren't catholics, but in the catholic religion anything that's done to prevent pregnancy

I've watched this entire series and only just now learned they weren't Catholic nuns. I didn't know the Anglican church even had nuns.

[debraran]

31 minutes ago, Kenzie said:

I've watched this entire series and only just now learned they weren't Catholic nuns. I didn't know the Anglican church even had nuns.

I'm Catholic and an English friend said I might be intrigued by the kindness shown by the nuns here. I like the fact that they have convictions but are non judgemental and treat the women no matter what without judgement of their circumstances. They offer help but don't force.

I know there were kind nuns growing up and some that gave advice not from the church with children, but they were told to instruct only "natural family planning".  It's gotten better but still has high rates of not working for some and since so many families toting it had large families, it seemed odd to me years ago. 

Chemicals can be unsafe and some birth control methods don't work as well as others, but they've come a way since the 60's. I know some women that would track their ovulation and just avoid those days even with birth control.  Whatever works for you. I don't judge women who don't want children or those who want 6. It's such a personal thing.

[Kohola3]

30 minutes ago, debraran said:

I like the fact that they have convictions but are non judgemental and treat the women no matter what without judgement of their circumstances.

Maybe I got a bunch of bad seeds but some of the nuns in my Catholic school were just horrible and verbally abusive.  Drove me right out of that school as soon as my parents would allow it.  The nuns as portrayed here are a dream compared to what I endured.

[MissLucas]

Reading discussions like these really makes me wonder how much cultural impact Vatican II had on different countries. Apparently I was lucky enough to grow up in a place were it hit heavy.

During five of my six years of primary school I was taught exclusively by nuns. The following seven years were mixed between lay teachers and Benedictine fathers. With one exception nuns and fathers were pretty chill. I was taught big bang theory at the age of 11 by a nun (and that was back in the time when it was still heavily disputed). Sexual education was giving us all the relevant biological facts - including various forms of contraception and how they work. Yes, they added what was acceptable for Catholics and there was even talk of 'saving yourself for the right person' but we still got all the relevant info.

And I always thought that behind the 'don't' was an addendum lurking along the lines of 'and if you do - be smart about it, don't ruin your life'. It was the scary time when AIDS was still a death sentence that might have played into this.

My mother and father had plenty of scary and creepy stories at hand how things used to be but I definitely grew up in a very liberal form of Catholicism which left me luckily un-scared. I recently read somewhere that among hardliners in the Vatican my country's brand of Catholicism has a horrible reputation of being way too wishy-washy and almost Protestant. I take it as a badge of honor.

[debraran]

1 hour ago, Kohola3 said:

Maybe I got a bunch of bad seeds but some of the nuns in my Catholic school were just horrible and verbally abusive.  Drove me right out of that school as soon as my parents would allow it.  The nuns as portrayed here are a dream compared to what I endured.

I was talking about the nuns on Call the Midwife and maybe Anglican nuns like them, but from what I was told, they weren't as strict as Catholic in certain things.

Yes, nuns many years ago ran the gambit. Some were not meant to be teachers, but you had teachers, nurses or contemplative/cloistered. I feel from reading a few bios of past nuns from 50's/60's, once you went in it was an embarrassment to leave or be asked to leave for your family. I feel (and of course just my opinion) that many stayed because what else could they do and back then, being 28 or older made you a spinster. Many weren't trained to do anything either. From what I read now, postulants will leave if not a match or try another order. Things are not the same. The anger some nuns showed was over the top and they harmed many children and vocations by their cruelty. Nice and kind nuns, strict without being cruel, made many love being Catholic and nurtured vocations. It seemed though, they weren't spread out well in some areas and I heard too many stories of terrible treatment and biased treatment from older friends. I knew a wonderful nun in Catechism and wont forget her. I see young women in the states joining a Domincan order for teaching in larger numbers and an order working for the poor. I hope they are the new face for nuns/sisters.

Edited April 28, 2019 by debraran

[doodlebug]

3 hours ago, MissLucas said:

Reading discussions like these really makes me wonder how much cultural impact Vatican II had on different countries. Apparently I was lucky enough to grow up in a place were it hit heavy.

During five of my six years of primary school I was taught exclusively by nuns. The following seven years were mixed between lay teachers and Benedictine fathers. With one exception nuns and fathers were pretty chill. I was taught big bang theory at the age of 11 by a nun (and that was back in the time when it was still heavily disputed). Sexual education was giving us all the relevant biological facts - including various forms of contraception and how they work. Yes, they added what was acceptable for Catholics and there was even talk of 'saving yourself for the right person' but we still got all the relevant info.

And I always thought that behind the 'don't' was an addendum lurking along the lines of 'and if you do - be smart about it, don't ruin your life'. It was the scary time when AIDS was still a death sentence that might have played into this.

My mother and father had plenty of scary and creepy stories at hand how things used to be but I definitely grew up in a very liberal form of Catholicism which left me luckily un-scared. I recently read somewhere that among hardliners in the Vatican my country's brand of Catholicism has a horrible reputation of being way too wishy-washy and almost Protestant. I take it as a badge of honor.

I'm a practicing Catholic and a practicing OB/GYN.  I have given talks to kids at junior high/high school age on more than one occasion.  One of those who asked was a nun, the other a priest.  In both cases, in discussing what I should talk about; I was specifically told that I should answer every question as honestly, truthfully and completely as I could.  In both cases, when I asked about incorporating the Church' teachings, I was told that that was covered in religion class.  The nun, principal of a girls' high school, actually asked me about where students could go for confidential testing and information.  I told her Planned Parenthood was nearby and did good work.  She told me to mention it specifically and actually had a slide made with the address and phone number on it and flashed it on the screen behind me while I spoke.  The priest I worked with was in El Salvador.  We had the kids write down their questions in Spanish and the priest translated the questions and the answers. Those kids asked everything; no just birth control, but about sexual assault, family violence and various sexual practices.  We answered every one.    

When I was a freshman in high school, we had a nun who taught health.  She was kinda harsh, but we covered the human reproductive system in detail including very specific information about how and when conception occurs as well as various methods of birth control and how they worked.   We also got STD education in rather graphic fashion including lots of pictures of people with Herpes or Syphilis or whatever.  Very specific pictures.  

I trained at a Catholic hospital where we had an OB/GYN clinic.  Abortions were not performed there, of course, however, when I had a patient whose unborn baby was found to have a terminal birth defect; I spoke with the hospital CEO, a nun about it.  She told me that, as long as I told the woman that she had the option of continuing the pregnancy, it was fine to tell her that she could terminate it, too.  And, of course, as her physician, I would be responsible for helping her arrange it.

Anyway, I don't think the nuns at Nonnatus House are all that different than many of the Roman Catholic nuns I've encountered in the US in midwestern cities.

[MMEButterfly]

8 hours ago, MissLucas said:

Reading discussions like these really makes me wonder how much cultural impact Vatican II had on different countries. Apparently I was lucky enough to grow up in a place were it hit heavy.

During five of my six years of primary school I was taught exclusively by nuns. The following seven years were mixed between lay teachers and Benedictine fathers. With one exception nuns and fathers were pretty chill. I was taught big bang theory at the age of 11 by a nun (and that was back in the time when it was still heavily disputed). Sexual education was giving us all the relevant biological facts - including various forms of contraception and how they work. Yes, they added what was acceptable for Catholics and there was even talk of 'saving yourself for the right person' but we still got all the relevant info.

And I always thought that behind the 'don't' was an addendum lurking along the lines of 'and if you do - be smart about it, don't ruin your life'. It was the scary time when AIDS was still a death sentence that might have played into this.

My mother and father had plenty of scary and creepy stories at hand how things used to be but I definitely grew up in a very liberal form of Catholicism which left me luckily un-scared. I recently read somewhere that among hardliners in the Vatican my country's brand of Catholicism has a horrible reputation of being way too wishy-washy and almost Protestant. I take it as a badge of honor.

Do you mind sharing the name of the country?

[MissLucas]

Ironically it's the country from where the pope's body guard is drafted from 😉

Edited April 28, 2019 by MissLucas

[eel21788]

10 hours ago, Kohola3 said:

Maybe I got a bunch of bad seeds but some of the nuns in my Catholic school were just horrible and verbally abusive.  Drove me right out of that school as soon as my parents would allow it.  The nuns as portrayed here are a dream compared to what I endured.

I worked with two nurse-nuns (I'm not sure if that is the correct terminology) at a catholic hospital. One was a total bitch who could definitely be described as horrible and verbally abusive. The other one was just totally wishy-washy. If you asked her a question, she would just use double-talk to not really give you an answer. She refused to commit to one side or the other of a decision, no matter how trivial it was. Then there was another nurse who decided she was going to become a nun after years of saying she was an atheist. That never made any sense to me. I never worked with her after she committed herself to nun-ship, so I don't know if it changed her personality at all.

[dcalley]

On 4/22/2019 at 1:21 PM, willowk said:

It was funny that the exhibit turned out to be racier than the  Sargent thought. Which of the girls was it -Trixie or Val who was surprised that the gallery was in So Ho? They likely had a sense the area wouldn't be the usual haunt of folks like Nurse Crane and the Sargent.

I don't think they knew the sergeant was also going to the exhibit, which I think makes it worse that they were surprised. Give Phyllis some credit, please, Trixie and Val! (The sergeant seems stuffy, so I would understand that reaction more if they knew he was going.)

On 4/22/2019 at 7:16 PM, doodlebug said:

 In the US, tubal ligation or vasectomy is by far the most popular method of contraception.

Adding up male and female sterilization does total more than the pill in the table on this page, but not by much. 

[Booklady1017]

On 4/22/2019 at 12:58 AM, GaT said:

That was a rough episode, I always forget this isn't a "happy ending" show, & that people will die.

This is the episode since the one where Barbara died that made me cry the most. I felt so bad for that whole family, the husband and kids and all.

[Booklady1017]

On 4/22/2019 at 1:21 PM, willowk said:

I found the Nurse Crane and the Officer date a bit sad. I got the sense that Nurse Crane is protecting her feelings, while the Officer clearly would like to upgrade their friendship to dating. It was funny that the exhibit turned out to be racier than the  Sargent thought. Which of the girls was it -Trixie or Val who was surprised that the gallery was in So Ho? They likely had a sense the area wouldn't be the usual haunt of folks like Nurse Crane and the Sargent.

I don't feel the chemistry but I felt his relationship with Phyllis improved the way he been acting, so she is a good influence on him. I am willing to give them a chance though.

[Booklady1017]

On 4/21/2019 at 11:28 PM, howiveaddict said:

No. That's cool!  It was like my worlds were colliding. Sister Monica Joan watching Dr Who.  I was only have listening to the show when I heard the theme music. I quickly rewound to watch the scene.  Then to see Finella Woolgar, who played Agatha Christie in a Dr Who episode, sitting in the background, also watching the show.  Too bad Sister Julienne made them change the channel.  

Yesterday a binge watch a series called Touching Evil, that was written by Russel T  Davies.  I just love how so many British actors are in so many different series.  And also how they don't make the women all glam but, they look like regular people.

I was disappointed that Sister Julienne made them change the channel.

[howiveaddict]

2 hours ago, Booklady1017 said:

I was disappointed that Sister Julienne made them change the channel.

Me too!

[RedbirdNelly]

On 2/4/2019 at 2:38 AM, maggiegil said:

In some ways I wish that Call the Midwife wasn't so episodic with their guest characters (not sure if that makes sense) but I feel like certain characters like Jeanie (the woman who had the botched abortion) should have been introduced last season having her second baby or just attending clinic and being told that Trixie would expect to see her back at keep fit asap or something. We're supposed to feel like the girls have  a super strong emotional connection to this woman we've never seen hide or hair of before.

 

 

I was thinking the same thing. It would be nice if they had some established characters that popped in now and then in the background so that when they became the topic of the episode they were at least familiar or someone close show-watchers would remember as "lady who fainted in Season 3".  The way it is done makes this show a bit closer to old shows like Little House on the Prairie that routinely had townspeople appear for one episode and then never bee seen again.

I'm not a fan of Nurse Crane being with the police officer, but I do like that least they are making this a slow process vs. one or 2 episodes. I still prefer her getting together with the Spanish class guy. I loved her being excited about trying out a parking meter and scooting off when it was going to expire. They do a good job with making her character pretty consistent in a fun way. 

[BooksRule]

I just re-watched this episode today and this exchange gave me the giggles:

Sister Julienne is helping a woman in labor. The wife is seconds away from delivering their baby and the husband-a driver for the underground (subway)-is standing near his wife's head.

Sister Julienne (to husband): 'Do you want to move to the end of the bed where you can see?'

Husband (terrified): 'No! I'm sorry, I don't!!'

Wife (peeved): 'You'd think he'd be used to the sight of things coming out of tunnels'.