Spider-Man: Far From Home (2019)

[swanpride]

Well, I assume that the next movie will be set directly after the end of Far From Home. The blip happened in 2023 and if Peter had to repeat his year, it should be 2024 in Far from Home. When the next movie gets released we are STILL behind that date in the timeline.

[johntfs]

On 7/7/2019 at 10:40 AM, Racj82 said:

While I get why Peter is into MJ. He said why he was and I get it. I wish I knew why she would be into him. I know Peter is great but another movie to establish more between them would have been fine. 

Peter has been acting kind of weird for the last couple of years or so (he got his powers six months before Captain America: Civil War) so figure MJ has been interested in him during that time (not necessarily romantically, but he's been on her radar for a while as someone... interesting). 

He also dated Liz during Spider Man: Homecoming and they only "broke up" because she moved away after her dad was arrested for being a supervillain.  I don't remember if Liz and MJ were "besties" or anything, but Liz was a pretty, popular girl who clearly saw something to like in Peter.  You ever hesitate to try a new restaurant but then go there because a friend tried it and really liked it?  A little like that. 

Finally, there really wasn't a "romance" between Peter and MJ through most of the movie.  While each liked the other, they didn't even "declare their intensions" until after the final battle near the end of the movie.  That was the point that the romance really began.

[Spartan Girl]

Saw it tonight and I loved it. This is how I like my Spidey movies: fun and relatively angst free.

So they basically went Mandarin route on Mysterio. Well, it worked. Guess petty ex Stark employees really are the worst.

Despite the cliffhanger, I loved the return of JK as Jameson. Oh, Picklepuss, you're the worst but I've missed you.

The sad thing is that even though he's been outed and framed for murder, this Peter still has the best personal life compared to his other movie versions. He's got a best friend who is awesome -- love Ned -- and a cool girlfriend that isn't a whiny useless bitch -- go straight to hell, Sam Raimi!

[Lantern7]

22 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

So they basically went Mandarin route on Mysterio. Well, it worked. Guess petty ex Stark employees really are the worst.

I think it's more about Tony pissing people off people, regardless of whether he employs them. You watch . . . there was probably a little kid he didn't hug in a prior MCU movie, and he/she grows up to be the elderly antagonist when we inevitably see stuff from the world of 2099.

[Crs97]

So true, Lantern7, and people will decide it is all Tony’s fault then, too.

[swanpride]

Well, nobody could live up to Tony Stark, not even Tony himself.

[Morrigan2575]

11 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

I think it's more about Tony pissing people off people, regardless of whether he employs them. You watch . . . there was probably a little kid he didn't hug in a prior MCU movie, and he/she grows up to be the elderly antagonist when we inevitably see stuff from the world of 2099.

But will be wearing a cape? No capes! LOL

[Spartan Girl]

I'd just like to add that I love Ned even more in his movie.  The fact that he unnecessarily took the time to apologize if he seemed preoccupied with his new relationship with Betty and that he was still there to support Peter was just adorable.

And I love that Betty and Ned turned out to be a summer fling and that even when it ended it was on good terms with a healthy amount of love and respect for each other.  Sometimes we underestimate how mature teenagers can be.

[ursula]

Betty and Ned were so cute. I kinda felt bad they broke up but they were so chill about it that it was lovely. 

I also love the irony of Ned accidentally hijacking and providing concept proof that Peter's Plan was valid. 

So there is a scene that was disgusting and even more so, no one seems to be talking about it. A grown woman asks 16-year-old high school kid Peter Parker to take off his clothes without giving him the curtesy of privacy, ignoring his refusal to do so and his clear discomfort. It's a cringey scene made even more so because we're obviously supposed to find it hot and titillating. You'd think in this post #metoo era, we won't be getting stuff like this in "family friendly" cinema anymore, or at least it would be presented with critical thought. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, ursula said:

So there is a scene that was disgusting and even more so, no one seems to be talking about it. A grown woman asks 16-year-old high school kid Peter Parker to take off his clothes without giving him the curtesy of privacy, ignoring his refusal to do so and his clear discomfort. It's a cringey scene made even more so because we're obviously supposed to find it hot and titillating. You'd think in this post #metoo era, we won't be getting stuff like this in "family friendly" cinema anymore, or at least it would be presented with critical thought. 

I hadn’t thought about it but it is one of those scenes that would never happen if you reversed the genders.

I’m not sure we were supposed to find it hot and titillating? If that’s what they were going for it really missed the mark. I thought they were going for awkward and uncomfortable. 

[johntfs]

3 hours ago, ursula said:

It's a cringey scene made even more so because we're obviously supposed to find it hot and titillating.

That wasn't "obvious" to me.  I felt embarrassed for Peter being put in that situation, especially after Brad took his picture and planned to use it to screw up Peter's chances with MJ (though that was partly justified on Brad's part given what he thought was going on).

For my part I kind of appreciated that and other scenes.  It's kind of a hallmark of Spider Man that the universe frequently spreads its buttcheeks and takes huge dumps on Peter Parker's life.

[Spartan Girl]

46 minutes ago, johntfs said:

That wasn't "obvious" to me.  I felt embarrassed for Peter being put in that situation, especially after Brad took his picture and planned to use it to screw up Peter's chances with MJ (though that was partly justified on Brad's part given what he thought was going on).

For my part I kind of appreciated that and other scenes.  It's kind of a hallmark of Spider Man that the universe frequently spreads its buttcheeks and takes huge dumps on Peter Parker's life.

And the sad part is that this Peter still has a better life compared to the Tobey Maguire's version!

[Danny Franks]

That was a lot of fun. Probably more fun than the first Tom Holland Spider-Man. His energy as Peter is spot on, and his interactions with the other kids and the adults perfectly capture those nervous, teenage mannerisms.

I really liked Peter and MJ. They were very cute, and again very convincing as two socially awkward teens experiencing the pangs of intense, hormonal attraction. I could take or leave MJ in the first movie - she was an awkward presence who added little to the movie - but I loved her here. Zendaya is great at portraying a teen, and her clear nervousness in every scene with Peter was adorable. Brad never stood a chance.

I want a lot more of them together in the third movie. MJ can convincingly help Peter problem solve, and be more than a damsel in distress or the girl he has to run out on because he's got to save the day.

Obviously, Beck was the villain and anyone who knows anything about Spider-Man will know that Mysterio is one of his big villains. But Jake Gyllenhaal's sheer likeability kept fooling me into thinking he might not be quite the clear cut villain. Which was the point, I guess. Peter still trusted him too quickly, and I couldn't figure out why Fury was so credulous, or what was off about him, for a while (the post-credits scene cleared that up). The reveal of how Beck was creating the illusions was definitely a surprise, although I suppose a bigger surprise would be a Marvel movie that doesn't involve Tony pissing someone off enough that they try to kill everyone. A bit broad with the comedy, talking about Janice getting his costume ready, the B-movie writing from the Marc Evan Jackson lookalike, Gyllenhaal chewing the scenery once he dropped the nice guy act.

The central theme of conning the public, showing you what you want them to believe and them being gullible enough to buy it, was sadly apt for our current times.

What I did not like - Peter as Tony's successor, with all the tech and all the resources. My preferred version of Spider-Man is the friendly neighbourhood Spider-Man, who uses his ingenuity and heart to defeat bad guys. That's why he never fit as an Avenger for me, in the comics. He was the plucky underdog, the blue collar superhero, he shouldn't have drones and satellites and the ability to fabricate suits with any gadget imaginable.

And the action scenes had too many 'this is obviously for the 3D version' shots that I didn't appreciate. Do people still care about 3D? Really?

JK Simmons returning as an Alex Jones analogue (which the PS4 Spider-Man already did with Jameson, to great effect) was perfect. Revealing Spider-Man's identity to the world? Not so much. I don't really know where they plan to go with that, and I'm not sure why they kept such a big plot development for a mid-credits scene.

Edited July 10, 2019 by Danny Franks

[festivus]

Just got back from seeing this, loved it! I about shit myself when J.K. Simmons showed up, I love going into these movies unspoiled. The funny thing is that I thought Fury & Hill were acting off but I just put it down to the snapture and most of the Avengers being either dead or missing and I didn't think any more about it. So they got me there. Well played.

Loved all the teens but aww I'm sad that Ned and Betty already broke up. 😥  Those two teachers damn near stole the show though. They were so funny and I'm glad Martin Starr got more to do in this movie. I find him dreamy. What can I say? 😁

[swanpride]

The Undress scene is very questionable, but there was nothing titillating about it. Honestly, it was a dumb way to give Brad the stupid picture.  

[Shannon L.]

1 hour ago, Danny Franks said:

And the action scenes had too many 'this is obviously for the 3D version' shots that I didn't appreciate. Do people still care about 3D? Really?

I don't normally.  I think I've only seen a handful of movies in 3D, but I was just saying today that I may go back in a couple of weeks and see this one in 3D because I thought it looked like it would be pretty cool. 

I don't think they were going for titillating in that scene with Peter and the woman either.  Just awkward.  I could have done without it and yes, if the roles were reversed, it wouldn't have been ok in the eyes of just about everyone.  However, it didn't ruin my enjoyment of the movie.

[AimingforYoko]

41 minutes ago, swanpride said:

Honestly, it was a dumb way to give Brad the stupid picture.  

But it was a valuable life lesson, "Don't take pictures in bathrooms. That's not cool."

[nilyank]

Yeah, I know there is a tendency for these villains to blame Tony for being evil, but Tony fired Beck because he thought the man was unstable and Tony was totally right. All those ex-Stark employees (who have been working for Pepper for the last 5-10 years not Tony) decide to follow the obvious unstable guy are no better. Sure Tony was an egomaniac, but he put his life on the line to save the world and not to make himself richer.

That's why Peter idolized Tony.

[ICantDoThatDave]

9 hours ago, ursula said:

A grown woman asks 16-year-old high school kid Peter Parker to take off his clothes without giving him the curtesy of privacy, ignoring his refusal to do so and his clear discomfort. It's a cringey scene made even more so because we're obviously supposed to find it hot and titillating.

I don't think that was "obvious" at all. I think we were meant to find it cringy. I identified more with Peter's discomfort with it than anything else.

[TVSpectator]

 

 

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10 hours ago, ursula said:

Betty and Ned were so cute. I kinda felt bad they broke up but they were so chill about it that it was lovely. 

Yeah, surprisingly I liked it. It was cute and seems like something high schoolers would do because you know they are teenagers. Betty thought that Ned was cute and so smart when they were dating but once they broke up they were just chill with it. The relationship lasted probably a week or two and then the break-up was mutual and they have both moved on. 

 

 

 

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10 hours ago, ursula said:

So there is a scene that was disgusting and even more so, no one seems to be talking about it. A grown woman asks 16-year-old high school kid Peter Parker to take off his clothes without giving him the curtesy of privacy, ignoring his refusal to do so and his clear discomfort. It's a cringey scene made even more so because we're obviously supposed to find it hot and titillating. You'd think in this post #metoo era, we won't be getting stuff like this in "family friendly" cinema anymore, or at least it would be presented with critical thought. 

 I personally don't think that scene was supposed to be "titillating" but funny. Because Brad had the wrong idea of what was going on. But yeah it did leave a bad taste in my mouth but I did quickly forgotten about it until you brought it up. I think just because the movie does have a face past to it and doesn't really dwell on it, overall I didn't linger and think about for it to be seared into my brain. 

[Katsullivan]

Just saw it. It was OK. Gotta admit I was spoiled for all the major beats so that probably affected my enjoyment... but there were just too many suspension of belief moments for me. All the Avengers were AWOL and it all rested on the shoulders of a teenage boy to save the world? Tony Stark giving said teenage boy control over WMDs? Peter handing over the glasses to a random guy that he literally just met? Someone that came from another Earth? After giving some convoluted illogical reason why he couldn't give them to the Director of SHIELD? I think Zendaya and Tom Holland have mad chemistry but it would have been nice to know/understand when his feelings flipped from Liz Allan to her. Also, convenient that everyone in Peter's group that mattered had been dusted. Yeah and about that - the blip? Seriously? 

Ah well, Ned/Betty were cute.

Some ugliness though: I heard that this plot was almost shot-for-shot a Miles Morales comic story? Can anyone confirm or explain this. 

6 hours ago, swanpride said:

The Undress scene is very questionable, but there was nothing titillating about it. Honestly, it was a dumb way to give Brad the stupid picture.  

Yeah it was definitely not meant to be titillating. They only filmed a supermodel in skin-tight leather ordering a teenage boy to take off his clothes to give us a PSA about not taking pictures in bathrooms. 🙄

ETA: Oh yeah - and another thing that bugged me. The whole deal about his secret identity is that Spidey wants to protect his loved ones. So... he takes MJ out on a public date... in full costume... because no one would want to know who is the girl that Spidey took web-slinging through town? Or connect the dots between her dates with Spidey and her high school classmate? 

Edited July 11, 2019 by Katsullivan

[Guest]

.

Edited July 11, 2019 by Guest

[Danny Franks]

13 hours ago, AimingforYoko said:

But it was a valuable life lesson, "Don't take pictures in bathrooms. That's not cool."

Not at the urinals or in the stalls.

[blueray]

Finally got around to see this movie. I saw it in an art theater so it turned out to be only about 5 people in the theater (two were me and my husband). Anyhow, that probably impacted my experience a little bit.  I overall, liked the movie but not nearly as good as the first one. I wished there was more Ned and Peter scenes, but the ones we got were the best. As were any of the ones that involved his classmates.  I did also love the scene where Peter was building a suit and Happy is watching him. It really did mirror  when Tony made stuff with his computer which was a nice touch.

I did feel like the villain fell into the usual Marvel trap, where they suddenly decide they want to destroy the world.  If he really wanted to be recognized as the next "iron man" he should have went for the long con.  Basically he got credit for saving Venice and Progue.  He could have went with that for a bit, gained some fame. Before doing his next "stunt", which could have been something completely different that way no one would be questioning it.  Instead he decides that he should have an "attack on London" before any of the stuff with Peter happened. Of course Peter does find out, but he may not of have he continued to do small stuff first. Anyhow,I will say the ending with him revealing Peter's name made me angry but I guess that's how it should be.  Maybe they could have Peter hide somewhere interesting like with Dr. Strange or something, assuming this was setting up the next one.

Anyhow, a good movie but defiantly a middle of the road MCU movie. I did by accident call the Sculls. I made a comment to my husband how Nick Fury should have saw that he was imposer coming. However, after the scene that revealed that he was a Scull. I realized that my complaint was answered ;).

[Racj82]

On 7/9/2019 at 9:31 PM, johntfs said:

Peter has been acting kind of weird for the last couple of years or so (he got his powers six months before Captain America: Civil War) so figure MJ has been interested in him during that time (not necessarily romantically, but he's been on her radar for a while as someone... interesting). 

He also dated Liz during Spider Man: Homecoming and they only "broke up" because she moved away after her dad was arrested for being a supervillain.  I don't remember if Liz and MJ were "besties" or anything, but Liz was a pretty, popular girl who clearly saw something to like in Peter.  You ever hesitate to try a new restaurant but then go there because a friend tried it and really liked it?  A little like that. 

Finally, there really wasn't a "romance" between Peter and MJ through most of the movie.  While each liked the other, they didn't even "declare their intensions" until after the final battle near the end of the movie.  That was the point that the romance really began.

All of this may very well be true but a lot of it is inferring many things that aren't facts. It's us as the audience filling in a lot of blanks. Which is fine. It just makes me care a lot less about them being together. It's just something just is for me. It's fine.

[BooBear]

1 hour ago, blueray said:

Finally got around to see this movie. I saw it in an art theater so it turned out to be only about 5 people in the theater

I went to see this on July 4 in a major city theater and it was the same. I am officially starting to doubt the veracity of box office numbers because I remember when I was a kid it would be MUCH more crowded when a blockbuster came out, even with several theaters showing it. 

[Guest]

On 7/11/2019 at 3:26 PM, BooBear said:

I went to see this on July 4 in a major city theater and it was the same. I am officially starting to doubt the veracity of box office numbers because I remember when I was a kid it would be MUCH more crowded when a blockbuster came out, even with several theaters showing it. 

In the US movie attendance is struggling and prices are higher in an attempt to compensate. Most of the top movies are making more money from the foreign box office. 64% of Far From Home’s current total is foreign. That’s right around the norm for a Marvel movie this year. 

It’s the reason several theater chains are added subscription services. 

Edited July 13, 2019 by Guest

[TVSpectator]

1 hour ago, BooBear said:

I went to see this on July 4 in a major city theater and it was the same. I am officially starting to doubt the veracity of box office numbers because I remember when I was a kid it would be MUCH more crowded when a blockbuster came out, even with several theaters showing it. 

I went to see this on the 4th of July. Humid day, thunderstorms all day, I went to see the movie and I noticed that only about 34% (my estimation) that the theater was filled. It was actually not very packed. I went to see both Endgame and Captain Marvel in theaters and I only remember Captain Marvel being packed the same. I know that theaters are taking a hit, financially but I have heard that studios are now making their money overseas in places like China. 

[swanpride]

why should anyone go to the cinema on the fourth of July? Just because a day is a holiday it doesn't mean that people will necessarily go to the theatre. Ie for a while I liked to go on New year during the day. Nobody else would though.

And no, studios aren't necessarily making their money in China. The Asian market has become way more important BUT one has to consider that the studio gets less from the box office in the foreign market.

Basically the most money is made in the first week of the domestic box office. If we take the Endgame vs Avatar example: While endgame is still 14.3 million behind Avatar, it technically has already made a higher revenue for the studio than Avatar, because not only is it's domestic intake higher, it also made a lot of it in the first week.

In Spiderman's case: It is already nearing the numbers the other MCU sequels made domestically, I would be extremely surprised if it doesn't pass a million overall, and at the end of the day, the only thing the movie has to show is an upward traction. See, domestically the Spiderman franchise was on a downward spiral. Until Homecoming was released. If Far from home makes even more, Sony will be satisfied.

[Shannon L.]

3 hours ago, BooBear said:

I went to see this on July 4 in a major city theater and it was the same. I am officially starting to doubt the veracity of box office numbers because I remember when I was a kid it would be MUCH more crowded when a blockbuster came out, even with several theaters showing it. 

I'm in a major city and work at a big theater chain and it was packed from the Wednesday, the 3rd at 12:01am (750 people that night--or morning, I should say) throughout Thursday and the weekend, then again on discount Tuesday.  The only previous movie I was there for was Endgame and that was much busier, but, of course, that was expected.

[Jediknight]

On 7/9/2019 at 2:19 AM, Dani said:

His initials are on the suitcase Peter takes to Europe. They vaguely hinted at his death in Homecoming when Peter is telling Ned why May can never know he’s Spider-Man. He talks about not worrying her after all she’s been through. 

And his line in Civil War, "When you can do the things that I can, but you don't, and then the bad things happen, they happen because of you."  Ben existed, and was killed in this universe.  I'm glad we didn't see it again.  Spidey, Superman, and Batman, are the 3 superheroes where everybody knows their origin story, so there's no need to rehash their origin again.

I liked it.

I took that scene with the supermodel ordering Peter to take off the clothes, to be a hint that something was wrong.  Just a hint you notice after that reveal, that she was a Skrull.  You had that, TalosFury being pissed about Peter mentioning Captain Marvel (after all she did for him, his family, and the Skrull refugees he'd see her above everybody, and think she's already done enough to help), the fact Fury would never come down that hard on an Avenger (especially a kid, remember in Ultron he gave Tony a pep talk), and Fury would never trust Becky that easily.

Looks like they're making Flash more like his other appearances.  He's a fan of Spidey, and they dropped the hints that his home life isn't great, beginning the path to he and Peter becoming friends.

[swanpride]

Honestly, I can see Flash doing a 180 in the next movie, either not believing that Peter is Spider-Man and setting out to proof it, or being his most staunch defender.

[Danny Franks]

1 hour ago, swanpride said:

Honestly, I can see Flash doing a 180 in the next movie, either not believing that Peter is Spider-Man and setting out to proof it, or being his most staunch defender.

I think Flash is more likely to jump on the "fake news, there's no way that dingus is Spider-Man" train, than revise his opinion on Peter.

I do see him resolutely defending Spider-Man from people who now think he's a villain, though. And I'd really like it if the movie emphasised Spidey's New York identity, and had the people there just refusing to believe what Mysterio claimed, while people around the world are more inclined to believe it.

[swanpride]

Why do I have the feeling that General Ross will turn up in the next movie?

[Ubiquitous]

16 hours ago, blueray said:

Finally got around to see this movie. I saw it in an art theater so it turned out to be only about 5 people in the theater (two were me and my husband).

That's about the size of the crowd when I watched it last weekend. I was rather surprised, actually.

[Spartan Girl]

3 hours ago, swanpride said:

Why do I have the feeling that General Ross will turn up in the next movie?

If he does, he'd better get killed off.  I'm still pissed that he was even at Tony's funeral in Endgame.

[TVSpectator]

21 hours ago, swanpride said:

why should anyone go to the cinema on the fourth of July? Just because a day is a holiday it doesn't mean that people will necessarily go to the theatre. Ie for a while I liked to go on New year during the day. Nobody else would though.

And no, studios aren't necessarily making their money in China. The Asian market has become way more important BUT one has to consider that the studio gets less from the box office in the foreign market.

Basically the most money is made in the first week of the domestic box office. If we take the Endgame vs Avatar example: While endgame is still 14.3 million behind Avatar, it technically has already made a higher revenue for the studio than Avatar, because not only is it's domestic intake higher, it also made a lot of it in the first week.

In Spiderman's case: It is already nearing the numbers the other MCU sequels made domestically, I would be extremely surprised if it doesn't pass a million overall, and at the end of the day, the only thing the movie has to show is an upward traction. See, domestically the Spiderman franchise was on a downward spiral. Until Homecoming was released. If Far from home makes even more, Sony will be satisfied.

It rain all day and/or was very humid and uncomfortable for me. Seeing Far From Home on the 4th wasn't my original plan. It was to grill outside but where I lived the weather was terrible. Going to a movie was instead was supposed to be a fan indoor thing for me to do. Also its not the first time I go to movies on the holidays. Usually family is in and its something I usually do occasionally with my two sisters. 

As with China, yeah its a big deal for studios now. They really do make lots of money overseas and I have heard China, for a while, supported the Michael Bay Transformer series. Also I noticed that many studios, including the MCU, in my opinion, are making movies with the idea of how to get their movies to play in China (all foreign films have to be approved by the Chinese government known as Censurs and their is a set limit as well. This number was raised in recent years but if you noticed studios do have China in their minds while making movies). Overseas box-office is important and it has "saved" some movies in the past as well. But you are also still correct that opening weekend totals still mean something. In my opinion, that started in the late 1990s.

Edited July 12, 2019 by TVSpectator

[arc]

So two movies in, the MCU Spider-Man movies have a few trends: the word “home” in the titles and villains that arise out of the chaos heroes — esp Tony — have created. It also neatly tied in that holo tech from Civil War, which was nice. But the villain thing really shows the benefit of being set in the larger world of the MCU: the villains’ origin don’t have to be tied to tightly to the hero. I’m really tired of how a lot of more self-contained superhero movies are so self-contained they’re almost ouroboroses.

I do think there was like one European location too many.

Giving the kid access to lethal equipment is absolutely in line with what Karen could do in Homecoming. Stark apparently had a major blind spot about arming kids and esp about letting his protege issue kill orders on civilians with ambiguous language. (Side note: does he not have a Karen AI unit any more?)

but making EDITH only accessible via glasses is a dumb design decision: for one thing, they might fall off Peter’s face when, say, a bus swerves. Put that in a wristwatch or something.

This reminds me, ever since Winter Soldier I’ve been saying that Hydra’s plan to kill all potential threats would have been better executed with swarms of relatively cheap drones instead of by three massively expensive helicarriers. And then Tony actually developed a swarm of killer drones! 

(Which somehow already had holo-projectors installed, and seriously why would Tony have done that?)

[swanpride]

It's glasses so that the user can see all those screens. I don't think that they were designed to use during battle.

[arc]

Yeah but at a minimum, EDITH shoulda also been accessible from the Stark-tech spider suits, at least once accepted and unlocked.

[SimoneS]

I saw it this weekend in an almost empty movie theater. I thought it was good, but in a kind of eh way. Nothing really stood out. However, I enjoyed MJ and Peter's romance, the sad Tony bits, and the humor with Ned/Betty and the teachers, best JB Smoove role. However, I thought Mysterio tormenting Peter with the illusions and the drones scenes went on too long. Those scenes felt neverending. I did like the ending with Peter being set up as a villain and his identity reveal.

[blueray]

1 hour ago, SimoneS said:

However, I thought Mysterio tormenting Peter with the illusions and the drones scenes went on too long. Those scenes felt neverendin

Me too. That went on way to long. I was like I get the point he's great at illusions, can this just end already. The when it did I was happy :). And it was followed by that great scene in the Netherlands.

[SimoneS]

39 minutes ago, blueray said:

Me too. That went on way to long. I was like I get the point he's great at illusions, can this just end already. The when it did I was happy :). And it was followed by that great scene in the Netherlands.

I loved the Netherlands scenes showing the Dutch as the nicest people. When the guy locked the jail door after Peter escaped everyone in my theater busted out laughing.

[scriggle]

Spider-Man Far From Home Is Kind Of Messed Up

[swanpride]

Honestly, I am less worried about the child soldier aspect and more about the fact that Tony apparently thought that it would be a good idea to recreate Project insight, but with him in control.

[Danny Franks]

I've not watched that video, but the child soldier thing has a long history in comic books - Batman had a kid sidekick, Captain America had a kid sidekick, Shazam was a kid. The X-Men were teens who were trained to fight villains by a rich, old guy.

The reason for this is fairly simple - Comic books originally were designed as a form of wish fulfilment for the intended readers, who were overwhelmingly adolescent and pre-adolescent boys. You give them characters they aspire to be like, and characters they can live vicariously through.

Bit odd to specifically criticise Far From Home for continuing that theme.

[johntfs]

On 7/15/2019 at 3:08 AM, swanpride said:

Honestly, I am less worried about the child soldier aspect and more about the fact that Tony apparently thought that it would be a good idea to recreate Project insight, but with him in control.

One thing to consider is when did Tony set this up?  And the clear answer to that is that he did it when he did his "Snap" in Endgame.  Because he wouldn't have done it earlier since Peter was basically dead.  If it had existed before Peter's death, Tony would presumably have used it when Thanos' lieutenants attacked New York to get Dr. Strange's Time Stone (I still love the way Tony explained that "He's from space.  He wants to steal a necklace from a wizard."  Just Tony's whole tone of "I can't believe that this is really my life."). 

It's pretty clear to me that Tony considered Peter to be the son he never had.  Tony over-engineered the hell out of Peter's costumes, even giving the one in Homecoming an "instant kill option."  In Infinity War we see that he developed another one in case Peter had to go into space - which he deployed because Peter was in the situation of going into space.

In the moment that he Snapped Tony knew he was going to die.  While he destroyed Thanos and his minions, Tony also wanted to do everything he could to keep his "son" protected because he'd already endured the heartbreak of watching Peter die and being helpless to prevent it.  So, Tony created something to protect Peter - and that something was a deadlier version of Project Insight.

[swanpride]

Yeah, trust Tony to go overboard and creating problems down the line out of the best intentions.

[Wynterwolf]

7 hours ago, swanpride said:

Yeah, trust Tony to go overboard and creating problems down the line out of the best intentions.

Or out of fear. Fear has basically been his driving force from the beginning. It doesn't allow you to make good decisions, it just creates drama others have to pay the consequences for and try to fix. Tony is literally the poster child for this. 

[tennisgurl]

All of that is so totally on brand for Tony, its hilarious. He gets afraid that people (especially people he cares about) will get hurt or he feels guilty about whatever happened (whether or not it was actually his fault) and he goes super over the top trying to "fix" problems or protect people, and inadvertently creatures even more problems down the line because he doesent think about the greater consequences or implications of what he does, either because he is already onto the next thing, or its just not something he would have thought of. We saw it most obviously with Ultron, but it comes up pretty frequently. Like in the last Spider-Man with Toomes, he really thought he was doing New York a favor by having his own people with tons of manpower and resources clean things up after the battle of NY, and maybe he was...he just never thought about the independent contractors that he put out of work to do that, not because he was being a dick to them, but because he really just didnt think about it. He saw a problem, and he through money at it, and that was that. He does all this with the best of intentions (if we ignore some of the Civil War stuff) but...I mean no other Avenger has like a billion villains who have him as a major part of their origin story is all I am saying. 

The child soldier thing does not bother me here, or with Peter in general, mostly because in comic books (and in action style fiction in general) kids and teens regularly fight crime and evil and such, so it kind of just comes with the territory. The one time I questioned the ethics of Peter being involved in something was when Tony recruited him during Civil War, mainly because this wasnt really a "saving innocents from some super evil mastermind) scenario where they needed all the help they could get, it was a personal/political conflict between Tony and his team, and Tony apparently lied to Peter about why they were fighting and what was going on, so that all seemed rather sketchy for anyone, let alone a fifteen year old.